Hosted by Prof. David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal, this podcast is for HR professionals, leaders, and change-makers navigating the future of work.
Through a systemic lens, we explore how individuals, teams, organisations, and society must evolve to thrive in an era of complexity and transformation. Through thought-provoking conversations with industry pioneers, we challenge conventional wisdom, spark fresh perspectives, and inspire bold new ways of working.
From rethinking leadership to transforming talent management, join us as we push the boundaries of HR, leadership, and workplace innovation.
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The One Where We Build Talent Instead of Buying It with Peter Cappelli
Season 1 · Episode 6
Wednesday, October 21, 2026 • Duration 47:33
When organisations need new capabilities, the default answer has increasingly become: hire it. But what are we losing by not building it?
In this episode of the Systemic Talent Management Podcast, Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal are joined by Peter Cappelli, George W. Taylor Professor of Management at The Wharton School and Director of Wharton’s Center for HumanResources, to explore why organisations have moved away from developing people internally and towards a model of buying talent when they need it.
Peter argues that the shift was driven not simply by changing business needs, but by a growing reluctance to invest in development, an increasing reliance on managers who have neither the time nor the skills to develop people, and a fixation on short-term cost reduction. The conversation challenges the assumption that hiring is the answer, explores whether technology is actually making recruitment better, and asks what it would take for HR to stop trying to predict an uncertain future and start managing it more effectively.
About Our Guest
Peter Cappelli is the George W. Taylor Professor of Management at The Wharton School and Director of Wharton’s Center for Human Resources. He has been recognised by HR Magazine as one of the world’s top management thinkers. His research and writing have shaped thinking on talent management, hiring, workforce development and employment, with his work appearing in publications including Harvard Business Review and The Wall Street Journal.
Episode Soundbite
“We have to start thinking about managing uncertainty rather than assuming it away.” - Peter Cappelli
Timestamps
00:00 Episode preview: Why organisations stopped building talent 01:51 Peter’s journey into the study of work and employment 07:02 How talent acquisition eclipsed talent management 08:43 Why organisations stopped developing talent internally 13:36 Why great individual contributors don’t always make great managers 16:10 What candidates really think about AI recruitment 23:16 Rethinking hiring in a rapidly changing world 26:19 The problem with “culture fit” 29:35 Managing uncertainty through scenarios and small bets 34:13 What HR analytics should actually measure 36:21 Why learning by doing matters 40:42 The biggest opportunity for talent management 42:12 Why HR needs to challenge senior leaders
Subscribe: New episodes released fortnightly. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
The One Where HR Focuses on the Levers That Matter with Marc Effron
Season 1 · Episode 5
Wednesday, October 7, 2026 • Duration 46:30
Are we focusing HR’s energy on the things that actually make the biggest difference?
In this episode of The Systemic Talent Management Podcast, Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal are joined by Marc Effron, Founder and President of The Talent Strategy Group, to explore leverage in HR: identifying the few things within a talent process that have the greatest impact. Marc challenges the complexity that has accumulated around HR practices, making the case for a more disciplined approach grounded in science, business outcomes, and managerial accountability.
From goal setting and talent reviews to potential, talent acquisition, and 360-degree feedback, the conversation asks a fundamental question: are we focusing our time and energy on the things that actually make a difference?
About Our Guest
Marc Effron is the founder and President of The Talent Strategy Group, where he advises leading companies, governments, and nonprofits on talent strategy. He co-authored the bestselling One Page Talent Management and wrote 8 Steps to High Performance, both published by Harvard Business Review Press. Marc co-founded the Talent Management Institute at UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School. He previously held executive HR roles at Bank of America and Avon Products.
Episode Soundbite
"Goal setting is the leverage in performance management... Get goal setting right. Everything flows well from it." - Marc Effron
Timestamps
00:00 Episode preview: Why goal setting is HR's greatest lever
02:09 Marc's journey: Political campaigns, academic research, and the corporate world
05:37 HR bling: When complexity works against its intent
08:18 Becoming a business junkie: Why HR must know the numbers
10:07 Start with the science: Separating what matters from bling
The One Where HR Stops Assuming and Starts With Evidence with Prof. Rob Briner
Season 1 · Episode 4
Thursday, September 24, 2026 • Duration 54:17
What if the core HR practices you rely on to drive organisational success are based on unexamined assumptions rather than solid evidence?
In this episode of the Systemic Talent Management Podcast, Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal sit down with Professor Rob Briner (Queen Mary University of London & Corporate Research Forum) to explore what happens when HR grounds its decisions in evidence. Rob examines why popular practices, from performance appraisals to Tuckman's model and change curves, fail under scientific scrutiny.
Together, they unpack how linear thinking and a bias towards immediate action often prevent organisations from diagnosing the real problems. Rob outlines a practical framework for evidence-based practice, urging HR leaders to slow down, clear the decks of misleading beliefs, and make decisions using multiple sources of structured data.
About Our Guest
Rob Briner is Professor of Organisational Psychology at Queen Mary University of London and Research Director at Corporate Research Forum. For nearly three decades, he has championed Evidence-Based Practice across HRM, management, and work psychology. He leads CRF’s Work Psychology Network and regularly publishes critical reviews examining popular workplace claims (e.g learning styles, psychological safety, growth mindset) to evaluate whether they are backed by scientific evidence.
Episode Soundbite
“To be evidence-based in any field, from medicine to policing to management, a really important first point is to try and clear the decks... and challenge quite a few assumptions that we make about the issues and problems we're dealing with.” - Prof. Rob Briner
Timestamps
00:00 Episode preview: Why evidence-based HR starts with clearing the decks
01:13 Welcome & Guest Introduction
03:10 Beyond linear thinking: Why evidence-based HR requires multiple sources
The One Where Feedback Stops Being One-Way with Peter Berridge
Season 1 · Episode 3
Thursday, September 10, 2026 • Duration 36:48
What if the feedback systems you rely on to help your people grow are actually making their performance worse?
Research shows that over a third of feedback interventions lead to worse performance. In this episode of the Systemic Talent Management Podcast, Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal sit down with Peter Berridge (CEO of Shift Positive, Executive Coach, and Author) to unpack why traditional feedback models fail and how to fix them.
Peter argues that standard feedback isn't broken by intent, but by design: it isolates individuals, focuses heavily on shortcomings, and hides behind anonymity. Through his Shift Positive® method, Peter introduces a relational framework built on strengths, growth, and allyship, shifting feedback from a one-way evaluation into a collaborative, solution-focused driver of change.
Together, they explore how to build a feedback-seeking culture, transform evaluators into developmental allies, and redesign HR systems around a simple truth: we don't change alone, we change in relationship with others.
About Our Guest
Peter Berridge is CEO of Shift Positive, an Executive Coach and Author. He is the co-creator of the Shift Positive® Method and co-author of Feedback Reimagined, which explores how positive psychology and social support can transform the way organisations approach feedback. Peter holds a Master of Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania and has more than 25 years of experience across executive coaching, facilitation and human resources.
Episode Soundbite
“Feedback is perspective, it's not truth. And feedback is relative and relational to the person providing it.” - Peter Berridge
Timestamps
The One Where HR Has an Identity Crisis with Dr. Dieter Veldsman
Season 1 · Episode 2
Thursday, August 27, 2026 • Duration 35:14
Does the world need HR? Absolutely. Does it need HR in the way it exists today? Probably not.
In this episode of the Systemic Talent Management Podcast, Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal are joined by Dr. Dieter Veldsman, Chief HR Scientist at the Academy to Innovate HR (AIHR), to explore why traditional HR models are struggling to keep pace with an increasingly complex, interconnected and AI-enabled world of work, and why HR may be facing an identity crisis of its own.
Dieter identifies three critical areas for HR to rethink: mandate, operating model and capabilities. They explore why HR needs to move beyond a linear, process-driven mindset, operate as an integrated line of business, and become clearer about the unique contribution it brings to organisational decision-making.
The conversation also looks at how HR can help organisations navigate AI, redesign work around human and technological capabilities, and build responsible governance for the future.
About Our Guest
Dr. Dieter Veldsman is Chief HR Scientist at the Academy to Innovate HR (AIHR) and Professor of Practice in HR and Organisational Behaviour at the University of Johannesburg. An organisational psychologist, researcher, author and former CHRO, his work focuses on strategic HR, organisational design, talent management and the future of work. He is co-author of Work for Humans: Building Sustainable Employee Experience Strategies.
Episode Soundbite
“Does the world need HR? I would say absolutely. If you ask me the follow-up question, does the world need HR in the way and the shape and the form that it is today? Then I would say probably not.”
The One Where We Introduce the Podcast
Season 1 · Episode 1
Thursday, August 13, 2026 • Duration 15:56
In a world that has grown complex, human, and deeply unpredictable, why are most organisations still running on linear HR models? In this introductory episode, co-hosts Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal launch The Systemic Talent Management Podcast to address the fundamental gap between static corporate processes and complex organisational reality. Unpacking the limits of command-and-control leadership, how quick-fix cultures stall real progress, and why HR must step up to educate decision-makers to view the organisation systemically, David and Riddhika set the stage for an evidence-based journey toward making organisations more agile, transparent, and human-centered.
EPISODE SOUNDBITE:
"[HR] must become the educators of the organisation so that the system becomes transparent to those who have the influence to make it different." — David Clutterbuck
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Episode preview: Rethinking HR’s role: Becoming system educators
00:50 - Why the podcast is called Systemic Talent Management
01:39 - David's 50-year question: why the wrong people get to the top
02:57 - Introducing Professor David Clutterbuck
04:27 - Introducing Riddhika Khoosal
05:27 - What still frustrates David most about talent management
06:34 - How quick-fix cultures stall real progress
07:46 - Linear vs. systemic thinking (the "teams of teams" exercise)
09:25 - How HR can educate decision-makers to view and transform the system
11:08 - Navigating workplace disruption with a systemic lens
12:19 - Moving beyond command-and-control to develop systemic capability
14:04 - Closing thoughts on our evidence-based approach
Subscribe: New episodes released fortnightly. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Trailer - The Systemic Talent Management Podcast
Thursday, July 2, 2026 • Duration 01:23
Most organisations don't struggle to develop people because they don't care. They struggle because the systems they're relying on were never designed for the complexity of human beings.
Hosted by Professor David Clutterbuck and Riddhika Khoosal, this podcast explores a different way of thinking about leadership, talent, learning, teams, and the future of work.
Drawing on decades of research, systems thinking, and conversations with pioneering thinkers, we examine the gap between the linear models many organisations still rely on and the complex, deeply human reality of how work actually happens.
If you're ready to challenge conventional thinking and explore what it really takes to build organisations that are not only more effective, but better for the people within them and the purpose they serve, you're in the right place.
Subscribe and join the conversation.
13:20 Swinging the pendulum: Why abandoning processes isn't the answer
14:51 Finding the leverage: Goal setting, potential, and managerial accountability
18:25 Rethinking potential: The fit between person and situation
23:48 Trait vs. state ambition: A powerful combination
25:53 Learning agility: What's really behind the label
27:16 Hiring for potential when the future of jobs is uncertain
30:51 Doing the job vs. transforming it: Risk in hiring decisions
33:29 Using the selection tools we already have
34:48 Tackling persistent bias through clear standards
38:22 The one thing HR should stop: Traditional 360s
44:29 Closing thoughts: Start with the science, end with accountability
Subscribe: New episodes released fortnightly. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
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