The Jabot – Details, episodes & analysis

Kathryn Rubino chats with Jiadai Lin, author and winner of the Sandra Carpenter Prize for Creative Nonfiction. Discover Jiadai’s journey from big law to heartfelt storytelling, balancing law and literature with grace. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation on following your true passion!

Highlights

• The straightforwardness of a legal career versus the uncertainty of a writing career.
• Jiadai’s compartmentalization of her law career and writing career.
• The emotional impact and challenges of leaving Big Law to pursue writing.
• The struggle and eventual acceptance of failures in her early writing career.
• The flexibility and benefits of working at a startup law firm while writing.
• The significant impact of winning the Sandra Carpenter Prize.
• The deep personal nature of her writing and its vulnerability.
• The role of memory and its imperfection in writing memoirs.
• Advice for lawyers harboring creative ambitions.
• The importance of giving oneself permission to pursue passions.

Links and Resources
https://www.scmemorialfund.com/ 

Episode Sponsored By
https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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Join host Kathryn Rubino who chats with Rachel Elkin, Pro Bono Counsel at Haynes Boone. Discover Rachel’s journey from a family of lawyers to championing public interest work and navigating her unexpected transition into Big Law. Gain insights on the rewarding and challenging aspects of pro bono work and how it shapes careers and communities. A must-listen for legal enthusiasts and those inspired by impactful lawyering.

Highlights

• Why Rachel Elkin went to law school.
• First exposure to public interest law.
• Importance of law school clinics.
• Key mentorship in law school.
• How Rachel secured her first nonprofit job.
• Transitioning from nonprofit to big law.
• Role and importance of a pro bono counsel.
• Managing pro bono case selection.
• Balancing billable hours with pro bono work.
• Rachel’s long-term goals for the firm’s pro bono program.

Episode Sponsored By
https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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In this episode, Kathryn interviews Dina Segal, the Chief Legal Officer at Gusto, and discusses her personal and professional journey including her transition from a big law firm to an in-house counsel position and her experiences as a working mother. 

She speaks about the Lexis Plus platform's innovative Judicial Brief Analysis tool and highlights the importance of understanding the business, building trust, and creating impactful solutions. Dina, a board member of the SunLaw Group, which supports women in-house counsel, also talks about the challenges faced by women in the legal profession. 

Dina emphasizes work-life balance and advises against measuring balance on a day-to-day basis. She promotes mental health awareness in the legal industry and encourages self-forgiveness on tough days. 

Highlights

• Dina’s background and why she decided to attend law school, and her early interest in advocacy
• Her pathway to in-house law and the importance of understanding the business you're in when working in-house
• Career progression in-house and the challenges and milestones for those seeking an in-house career
• Dina’s experience of transitioning the SunLaw Group's activities digitally during the COVID-19 pandemic
• The importance of being present wherever you are, whether it's at work or with family and suggests viewing balance over longer time periods
• The lasting impact of small but meaningful moments with children
• Advice to aspiring lawyers and the importance of identifying their fundamental driver or passion
• Significance of keeping the larger picture in mind during challenging periods

  
Episode Resources

• https://gusto.com/company-news/the-rise-of-women-entrepreneurs

Episode Sponsored By
https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus 

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When it comes to being a lawyer, what are the adversaries and challenges that you might face?

In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Betiayn as she shares the twists and turns of her career that got her to where she is today. Betiayn talks about how the legal industry has evolved, particularly in respect to diversity, during the course of her career. They also discuss what led up to the founding of WILEF and the work she's most proud of. Betiayn also shares about why WILEF decided to change the Gold Standard criteria, and the main takeaways from the most recent Gold Standard List. She gives her thoughts on the most important diversity benchmarks for the profession.

Episode Resources

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/betiayn-tursi-37950115a/
• https://wilef.com/
  
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• The twist and turns that lead Betiayn Tursi’s career to where it is now. - 0:51
• Joining ADA catapulted Betiayn’s career. - 3:13
• How did her background in legal marketing play a role as she started shifting her focus into diversity issues? - 7:35
• The major evolutions in the legal industry, particularly as it relates to the question of diversity. - 9:31
• Works and programs that Betiayn participated in that she’s most proud of. - 10:47
• How did the Gold Standard evolve over time? - 12:07
• How Betiayn sees the two-tier partnership in law firms impact the goals of diversity. - 15:56
• Takeaways from the most recent iteration. - 17:52
• The most important benchmarks for law firms to be hitting or for people who are thinking of latering or starting their legal career. - 20:31
• Money makes you feel good. If you’re compensated correctly and you have a role in the firm, it makes all the difference in the world. - 21:56
• “I don’t want people to think that being a lawyer is easy and that partnering with a law firm is easy. It’s not easy. However, the people I surround myself with are all very grateful, happy, and balanced.” - 23:51
• Advice that Betiayn has for people who want to be in the brass ring path. - 24:35
• Difference between a sponsor and a mentor. - 25:28
  
  
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Building a career in the law field can be both challenging and rewarding: Especially if your field of interest is uncommon. In today’s episode, Kathryn interviews Linda Kornfeld. Linda shares why she attended law school and how she landed in her practice area: As an Insurance Recovery Attorney. She also gives advice for others who are looking for their career niche, as well as her experiences with business interruption insurance over the past year and what Biglaw can do to foster diversity.

Episode Resources

• https://www.blankrome.com/people/linda-kornfeld 
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• Why did Linda go to law school in the first place? 1:01
• How did she decide to work as an Interest recovery attorney? - 3:15
• Checkmarks that Linda went through to see if the interest recovery area is the career of her future. - 4:59
• How she wound up on the path of her current job. - 7:43
• Balancing two hats amidst the pandemic. - 16:23
• Good and bad things in 2020 and 2021 that can help build stronger institutions in the backend. - 18:58
• The only way you can make change happen is by forcing it. - 23:20
• You got to put the right people in the room where it happens and the benefits will flow from there. - 26:52
  
  
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Is having a law degree a great tool that opens up a lot of doors and opportunities? In this episode, Kathryn welcomes Lindsay to discuss her pivot to writing from her career in law. They discuss her process of writing her second novel and how different it is from the process of her first book. Lindsay also shares her advice for lawyers and legal professionals who are looking to break into writing.

Episode Resources

• Just One Look by Lindsay Cameron
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• Why did Lindsay join law school? - 1:14
• Beyond writing, what’s the actual practice of law that Lindsay misses? - 3:53
• What’s her background and how was she able to capture the feeling of the people in the room without necessarily being where they want to be? - 11:05
• Her fascination with the hierarchy of law firms. - 12:12
• When there’s no competition, if temp workers don’t have anywhere to go to, they accept any projects available. 14:40
• What people who are new in the industry should know? 15:59
• Is it true?: A law degree is a great tool as it opens up a lot of doors. - 17:40
• Is the “eat what you kill” system, where associates with large clients act bigger and with a toxic attitude, should still thrive in the industry because they’re bringing in money? - 20:55
• What skills from being an associate was she able to take when writing day to day? - 24:11
• Pieces of Advice to people who want to get started in legal writing. - 25:11
  
  
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Can someone who’s not a lawyer get involved in the legal industry? In this episode, Kathryn and Ritu discussed the twists and turns of Ritu’s career which led her to her current role in the male-dominated space of the legal industry. Ritu spoke about whether she ever felt her accomplishments were undermined because of her race or gender and how she dealt with those feelings. She also shared her advice for others who are coming up in white or male spaces as well as her perspective on the legal industry.

Episode Resources

• https://www.lexisnexis.com/en-us/about-us/leadership/global-leadership/ritu-khanna.page
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritu-khanna-70a4004/?originalSubdomain=uk 
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• How does a non-lawyer get involved in the legal industry? - 1:25
• Ritu Khanna’s role at LexisNexis. - 2:36
• The twists and turns of Ritu’s career got her to where she is now. - 4:26
• The stumbling blocks in the industry. - 11:45
• How did Ritu navigate the male-dominated space? - 14:39
• Practical advice for people who experience a lack of reception to their ideas because of who they are. - 17:41
• Biggest career challenges. - 19:46
• Why is diversity such an asset in Ritu’s industry? - 23:31
  
  
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Kathryn interviews Patricia Cain, one of the authors of Paving the Way, about the twists and turns of her life and career: from going to law school, being part of a circus troupe to starting a career in the legal academia. Patricia highlights her experiences not only as a teacher but also her experiences in law school. She also shared the best lessons she learned, especially for those who want to start a life in legal academia.

Episode Resources

• Paving the Way
  
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• Introducing the guest: Patricia Cain. - 0:38
• The reasons why Patricia decided to go to law school. - 1:24
• The twists and turns: How she went from law school, a theater member, to being a teacher. - 4:20
• Patricia’s involvement in the Paving the Way book project. - 9:14
• A shift from being introduced to Herma Hill Kay to continue writing the book. - 12:08
• Linking histories: Knowing the difference of the process back in the ’70s to her experience. - 17:16
• It wasn’t until other women joined the faculty that Ellen Peter’s voice could be heard during faculty meetings. When you’re the one woman in the room, you say something and nobody says anything back then 5 minutes later a man says the same thing and everybody thinks it’s brilliant. I experience that every time. - 18:57
• The adoption process. - 21:17
• The best lessons that people who want to start a life in academia can take away. - 23:46
  
  
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Kathryn spoke with Mark Hsu about his experiences as a lawyer, author, and father. They also discussed how Mark drew a line and a balance between legal practice and parenthood. Additionally, they talked about some of the challenges that Mark faced while starting as a lawyer up to creating different lessons for his book that he can pass down to his children.

Episode Resources

• Please Open in the Event of My Death
• Please Open in the Event of My Death Audio Book
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• Why did Mark decide to go to law school? - 1:00
• Starting from rejections: The start of Mark’s career. - 4:54
• What is the initial impulse to start writing down his advice to his children? - 8:20
• Balancing parenthood and legal practice. - 10:35
• We don’t want work to completely consume our lives. - 11:11
• How it all started: What is Mark’s process when writing his book? - 11:52
• What are the most important lessons that he created to pass down to his kids? - 16:30
• There are several obstacles you can’t overcome simply by the force of will. But if you don’t try, you’re losing half of the battle there. - 18:05
• Using pop culture references in his book makes it more relatable to the readers. - 22:13
• To be a positive person, you need to look at the bright side of life, you need to look at positive things. - 26:37
  
  
  
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I spoke with Vernon and Armand about the initiation of their partnership and writing a book together for both a general audience and for lawyers. We discussed why they chose the Supreme Court as the lens to examine racial justice in this country, and why it is important in the current political climate to examine the Court's history on racial justice. We spoke about their research process and surprising or unexpected findings.

Episode Resources

• Justice Deferred: Race and the Supreme Court by Orville Vernon Burton and Armand Derfner
• Case of Jones v. Alfred H. Mayer Company
  
  
  Episode Highlights
• The present goes out of the past - 4:40
• How the guests are writing for a general audience and somebody with a legal background - 8:20
• The 13 to 15 Amendments were developed to argue equality and end the badges of slavery - 24:30
• The progressing wing of the government are the people we elect in every 2 to 4 years - 27:47
• It’s the President and the congress that lead the way to turn the court around for a very reactionary court in a way out of respect to the people of the country - 28:00
• The court will get better but it will not do it by itself - 28:20
• We can shape the future - 31:19
  
  
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