Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

The Future of Integrated Media – Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth

"It’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. Too often, brands optimize for individual platforms without considering the bigger picture. Today’s consumers move seamlessly between channels. If we reach the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative, we lift all ships. The brands that break down silos and adopt an integrated, customer-first approach will drive real, measurable growth." That’s a quote from Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, and a sneak peak at today’s episode. 

In this episode The Future of Integrated Media: Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth I  sat down with Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, to discuss the evolving landscape of digital marketing and how business leaders can optimize their media strategies for sustainable revenue growth.

With budgets tightening and expectations rising, business leaders must rethink how they allocate marketing dollars. Sammy emphasizes the need for brands to unify their internal teams, leverage data-driven decision-making, and test integrated strategies that align with evolving consumer behaviors to drive sustainable revenue growth. 

Be sure to stay until the end when Sammy shares what you need to start optimizing integrated media asap! 

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.186)
So, welcome, Sammy. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Sammy Rubin (00:07.025)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, a leading independent marketing agency. I do everything from consumer insights and category intelligence to media planning and buying. Everything we do is underpinned by industry-leading intelligence, and we have an amazing creative team as well. So, we really support clients in achieving their business goals through all aspects of our work.

In my role as VP of Integrated Media, I oversee the teams developing integrated strategies for our clients—everything from CPG to retail to entertainment. I have the privilege of being part of these teams and helping to guide what we take to market.

Just a bit more background about me: I've been on the agency side my whole career and have had the privilege of working with some amazing brands. I’ve partnered with disruptor brands like SoulCycle and Yasso Frozen Greek Yogurt (which is always stocked in my freezer), as well as Fortune 500 companies like Nike and WarnerMedia. I started as a paid search manager, and it’s been an incredible journey evolving from a single-channel focus to an integrated media leadership role.

It’s been amazing to watch media evolve and see how having an integrated media lead on your business is a no-brainer. It provides a holistic view of how all marketing investments contribute to business results—which is what we’re all rallying around today.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:51.15)
Thanks, Sammy. I'm so excited to have you and hear about what you're seeing, hearing, and doing these days. We’re such kindred spirits—I also grew up in the performance media world. I actually started as an SEO manager because, at the time, paid search was still new. But you’re right—there has been so much evolution, and the channels are constantly changing and getting smarter.

To your point, you can’t just have a single-channel approach or strategy anymore. I love your integrated media role. You must get to see it all. What trends are you seeing these days?

Sammy Rubin (02:33.041)
Yes, my focus over the past 18 months or so has really been on commerce. There are many definitions of commerce in this space right now, but what I mean is partnering with brands that have direct-to-consumer objectives—whether through e-commerce, their own brick-and-mortar stores, or wholesale retail relationships, including Amazon.

When it comes to commerce, what we’re finding—back to the point of integration—is that it’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. And when I say "channel," I mean both media and sales channels. Clients have sales objectives across different retailers and distribution points, but if we do our jobs right as marketers—effectively reaching the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative—it lifts all ships.

We see this reflected in data and our own behaviors. You and I, like most consumers, search on social media, pre-validate in-store purchases on Amazon or Reddit, and then take the next step. So, it’s really important for brands to take a customer-first approach—understanding where they show up and ensuring their creative is more critical than ever before.

I think the latest eMarketer stats show that adults in the U.S. spend over 13 hours a day with media. That’s a lot. Like, what else do we do? Sleep? I know I get eight hours of sleep every night—at least, all my trackers tell me that. But if we’re spending that much time with media, exposure alone is no longer enough. We need to drive engagement.

That’s where creative is the new media targeting—it’s the new media strategy for many environments. In Meta’s algorithm, over 50% of what you pay is based on projected creative engagement and other creative-related factors. As brands, we must show up consistently across platforms because customers bounce from place to place.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:05.422)
That’s a lot—all our waking hours!

Sammy Rubin (04:24.349)
Exactly! And advanced measurement plays a big role here. Consumers will purchase wherever it’s convenient—whether that’s Amazon, TikTok, or in-store. We’re launching TikTok Shops for many clients, and having an integrated measurement approach helps avoid the blind spots created by siloed data.

For example, we often see a CTV campaign or a social program funded by a DTC marketing team drive sales at Walmart or Amazon stores. That’s because, to the customer, those distinctions are irrelevant—unless there’s a specific offer tied to the channel.

We build high-velocity media mix models for our clients through our proprietary tech platform, Polaris. This platform integrates foundational reporting, media mix modeling, and incrementality test design, helping us showcase the impact of different media activities on various business outcomes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:25.41)
Yes, I love that. The holistic experience is key. Customers don’t care if an ad is on Meta or Google, and they likely won’t even remember where they first saw it.

I was just recording another episode on media mix modeling and attribution. The point made there was that we’re going back to measuring impressions and the importance of creative—because it provokes an emotional response and drives action. But we can’t control what action they take. We just have to ensure our brands are out there, engaging, and driving conversions.

Sammy Rubin (07:13.437)
Exactly! It’s about reframing high-intent actions. Are we seeing an increase in Instagram profile views? Organic social video views? These are proxies for site traffic. For many audiences, especially Gen Z, social media is the new website.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:41.198)
Right.

Sammy Rubin (07:43.121)
And that perspective needs to be incorporated into measurement strategies.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:49.486)
That’s such a great point. You also mentioned retail media—when you and I started, it wasn’t a thing. Now, it dominates strategy and investment dollars. How are you incorporating that shift into your clients’ strategies?

Sammy Rubin (08:15.781)
Retail media investment growth is astronomical. Retailers have turned into media conglomerates, and they want a bigger share of total marketing budgets—not just retail budgets. They now offer influencer marketing, off-site paid search via Google and TikTok, first-party retail data, and closed-loop measurement.

Retail media is just media. We know that brands have historically driven sales across all retail doors through broad awareness campaigns. That still holds true today. Clients now ask us whether they should invest directly with retailers or take a broader media mix approach.

We recently ran a matched-market test for a client, exposing certain markets to media activations while holding others out. We drove measurable 10-20% sales lift in those markets without retail media—proving that broader media strategies can also drive retail results.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:45.016)
Wow. Yeah.

Sammy Rubin (11:00.923)
We’re constantly testing to see what works for our clients. What works for one brand might not work for another. But with everything being retail media, the role of an integrated media strategist is to figure out the right places and spaces to activate and how to hold those dollars accountable for achieving objectives.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:21.432)
I love that example and the market testing approach because brands’ budgets are getting smaller, yet we’re all expected to do more with less. It’s about driving effectiveness and efficiency and figuring out how to do it. To your point, if you don’t have the budget, you can’t just dump everything into the retailer—you have to get smarter and more strategic.

So much of this revolves around consumer behavior and what they’re going to do. I know this shift—thinking more about consumer behavior versus channel targeting—is a big one for clients. How are you educating them and pushing for that integration?

Sammy Rubin (12:11.567)
Yes, it really depends on the brand. The internal organizational structure can vary drastically, even among brands within the same vertical or of the same size.

For example, we have CPG brands that have both a D2C marketing lead and a retail marketing lead. Others have a D2C marketing lead, a retail e-commerce lead, and a shopper lead.

Or, we might have a brand with a brand marketing lead, a performance and growth marketing lead, and a retail lead. There’s no standardization in terms of which teams drive which commerce objectives.

But in every case, what’s required is an integrated media mix to drive those different commerce objectives—whether direct-to-consumer, e-commerce, in-store, or retail. All of these teams start circling around the same media platforms and creative messaging but in service of different financial goals tied to different commerce channels.

When that happens, resources are duplicated, and creative production multiplies.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:31.138)
Yes, they start competing with each other.

Sammy Rubin (13:36.101)
Exactly. And I don’t know what the incentive structure looks like behind the scenes, but it likely plays a role in who wants control over what.

The bigger issue is the blind spots in measurement when there’s no unification or transparency across data, activation schedules, or even simple things like campaign calendars.

For instance, if the DTC team is running a massive CTV activation but the team managing Amazon retail media or brand search isn’t aware, they might not adjust their investments to capture that demand.

Having remarketing audiences set up properly and ensuring synergy between teams is crucial for marketing efficiency. And that requires unification.

I won’t sugarcoat it—it’s challenging work. Many brands have legacy structures and long-established ways of working. But the data doesn’t lie.

At the end of the day, all these different marketing stakeholders are laddering up to a single point of accountability—the CMO, the VP of Marketing, or another senior leader.

The CFO obviously cares too, right? They want to maximize the return on marketing investments and find efficiencies.

So, we’re building operating models to unify teams internally, especially across planning. What are the different goals, product priorities, budgets, and audiences? These will often be different for each team, but by coming together in an integrated planning session, we can align efforts.

That way, teams can draft off each other’s impact, shift certain responsibilities where needed, and ensure media dollars are deployed strategically. From a measurement perspective, we then report on both individual and collective goals.

We also do more integrated reporting and measurement. What’s the halo effect of different media tactics on different commerce channels?

For example, we’ve seen cases where a retail client scaled back social media, and the Amazon team later reported a bad sales week. When teams don’t communicate, they don’t realize the relationship between social media in the market and performance across different distribution channels.

Using data as a unifying factor is so important. It sounds obvious, but truly building that data foundation is critical.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:36.076)
Yes, I’ve seen exactly what you’re talking about—when internal teams don’t share their strategies, they either compete or lack alignment.

Your consultative approach—bringing an organizational and data framework to clients—must be invaluable for improving efficiency and effectiveness. I love that your clients are listening and working with you to optimize.

You also have a solution to unify this data. Can you share more about your data platform?

Sammy Rubin (17:38.973)
Yes, at Wpromote, our proprietary tech platform is called Polaris. It serves as the foundation for all our standard media reporting.

We have over 100 API connections with various media and data sources. We use this to build an integrated data taxonomy—not the most exciting topic, but extremely important—so we can see all our data in one place.

On top of that, we can layer in advanced analyses, including media mix modeling, incrementality test design, and scenario planning. For example, if we launch a new media channel, scale back an existing one, or receive additional budget, how can we best optimize our investments?

Sammy Rubin (18:38.141)
Once we have that data foundation, we can integrate additional factors like pricing data and promotional data to enhance modeling. This allows us to distinguish the impact of media versus price or distribution as key levers in achieving business goals.

It’s all about moving from crawl to walk to run, but it’s entirely attainable with the right data infrastructure.

When I joined Wpromote in 2020, one of my first priorities was building our media strategy department to help clients achieve holistic business results.

It’s one thing to have integrated measurement and insight presentations, but actually moving dollars and stewarding budgets across the entire media mix is critical.

Our media strategists lead this effort, ensuring innovation while leveraging the right mix of people, technology, and processes to drive success.

That’s how we help our clients.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:02.734)
It’s so valuable. As you were talking, I kept thinking about how not only the media channels have evolved but also how data has evolved.

Marketers are getting smarter, brands are targeting audiences more effectively, and investments are working harder.

This has been so helpful—thank you for sharing your expertise.

For listeners who want to get started, what’s the first step you’d recommend for brands looking to optimize and integrate their media strategies?

Sammy Rubin (20:42.545)
Step one: Have a conversation with all your internal counterparts who oversee different marketing investments and priorities.

Get a full picture of all media currently in-market—or planned—to identify synergies.

See where you might unlock value by integrating investments across teams. Often, the same media partner is being leveraged by multiple teams, but they’re working in silos.

Then, start building integrated media reporting.

You don’t need API connections or advanced modeling on day one. Just align on KPIs, how teams measure success, and how media investments are being attributed.

Once you identify trends—like, "Hey, two weeks ago, this team ran a large CTV activation, and we saw a lift"—you can start applying causal impact modeling to confirm relationships.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:30.85)
I love that. Sammy, thank you so much. This has been so valuable.

How can people find you?

Sammy Rubin (22:47.355)
Find me on LinkedIn—Sammy Frankel Rubin—or through Wpromote. If anything we discussed today sounds interesting, feel free to reach out.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:59.918)
Excellent! Thank you so much, Sammy. Looking forward to speaking again soon!

Sammy Rubin (23:05.51)
You too—thanks so much!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

"It’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. Too often, brands optimize for individual platforms without considering the bigger picture. Today’s consumers move seamlessly between channels. If we reach the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative, we lift all ships. The brands that break down silos and adopt an integrated, customer-first approach will drive real, measurable growth."

That’s a quote from Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, and a sneak peek at today’s episode. In The Future of Integrated Media: Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth, Kerry sits down with Sammy to discuss the evolving landscape of digital marketing and how business leaders can optimize their media strategies for sustainable revenue growth. 

With tightening budgets and rising expectations, business leaders must rethink how they allocate marketing dollars. Sammy emphasizes the importance of unifying internal teams, leveraging data-driven decision-making, and testing integrated strategies that align with evolving consumer behaviors to drive measurable results. 

📢 Be sure to stay until the end, where Sammy shares the key steps you need to start optimizing integrated media today! Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level? Let’s dive in!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

From Social to Strategy: How Smart Organic Content Fuels Consumer Interest & Revenue Growth

"Brands need to stop thinking of themselves as the center of the conversation and start putting their audience first. If you focus on fulfilling their interests—whether through information, education, or entertainment—you’re not chasing engagement anymore. You’re creating value, and that’s what drives real organic growth." That's a quote from Clayton McLaughlin and a sneak peek at today’s episode. 

Hey there! I’m Kerry Curran—revenue growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. 🎙️ Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real results. If you’re serious about growth, hit subscribe and stay ahead of the competition! 

Organic social media has evolved—no longer just a place for brands to post and hope for engagement, it’s now a critical driver of consumer interest and revenue growth. But with so many platforms, algorithms, and trends shifting constantly, how can brands move beyond vanity metrics and turn organic social into a true business asset?

In From Social to Strategy: How Smart Organic Content Fuels Consumer Interest & Revenue Growth I sat down with Clayton McLaughlin, EVP at BBDO’s innovation division, Dobbino, to break down how brands can shift their social media approach from passive posting to proactive strategy. 

We dive into how  brands can leverage consumer intent, high-value content, and strategic engagement to drive measurable business impact.

Stay tuned to the end where Clayton shares the best next steps to improve the value of your organic social strategy. 

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.107)
So, welcome, Clayton. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Clayton McLaughlin (00:07.416)
Sure, happy to be here. I'm Clayton McLaughlin, EVP and business lead for an innovation division inside BBDO called Dobbino. I've been there for almost a year now, but I’ve spent nearly 20 years in the ad industry, working at agencies of various sizes and with brands of all scales. My background has always been in the digital world, but I now bounce between both the media and creative sides, trying to fulfill the full agency roster at this point.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:38.473)
Excellent. Well, we're excited to have you today. I know you’ve got a wealth of experience. There’s so much we could cover, but what’s top of mind? What’s hot for your clients and the brands you're working with today?

Clayton McLaughlin (00:57.036)
When you say “wealth of experience,” it really just means you're old. I appreciate that.

No, but seriously, top of mind for us has been organic social. It’s been my focus for the last year or so, and I believe it’s at the forefront of digital right now. It reminds me a lot of the early SEO conversations we had 15 or 20 years ago—discussing the value of organic presence, what it really means, and how we position it differently from just a traditional social platform.

We like to talk about it as interest media, not social media. Originally, Facebook was about engagement and communities, and while those elements still exist, social today is much broader than just Meta. There are multiple platforms, each with their own unique characteristics. However, the one thing central to all of them is that people use them to find information or engage in conversations about their interests.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:33.447)
Yeah, definitely. I know we joke about having “a wealth of experience,” but we’ve been in the industry long enough to remember the early days of SEO—when we had to convince marketers why it was important. And now, we’re seeing organic social take on that same level of importance.

Clayton McLaughlin (02:08.302)
Exactly. Whether it's a hobby, work-related content, or pure entertainment, everything people do on these platforms is interest-driven. If brands can shift their mindset from simply chasing engagement and likes to fulfilling audience interests, they can unlock a whole new level of effectiveness.

Marketing, to me, is 100% about a value exchange. If a brand can provide valuable content—whether through information, education, or entertainment—within their audience's area of interest, it completely changes how social strategy should be approached. Instead of trying to force engagement, brands should focus on offering value that aligns with consumer interests.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:30.717)
That’s such an interesting perspective because we all use social platforms differently depending on our mindset. Seeing it as “interest media” rather than just another social channel could be a valuable way to build awareness, attract new audiences, and foster loyalty with existing customers.

Clayton McLaughlin (03:59.906)
Exactly. If brands stop thinking about themselves as the center of the conversation and instead put their audience at the center, they’ll find new creative opportunities to engage with people in meaningful ways.

Not only does this help brands connect better, but it also creates incremental reach—which, let’s be honest, is the whole point. Even when I was on the paid side, everything came down to incrementality. Loyalty is great, but every brand needs a steady flow of new customers. Organic social is a great tool for that if done right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:43.881)
That makes a lot of sense. So, how should brands determine which platforms to focus on? What’s the best way to decide where to invest their organic efforts?

Clayton McLaughlin (06:20.738)
That’s a crucial question. The first step in any organic strategy should be determining the right platform for your brand.

Each social platform serves a unique purpose. YouTube is all about long-form content (even though they’re pushing Shorts, which, let’s be honest, can be annoying). Pinterest is inspiration-driven. TikTok is built around short, engaging snippets. And so on.

Brands need to be ruthless in channel selection—choosing platforms that align with their identity and where their audience is already active. Red Bull, for example, is essentially a content company that happens to sell energy drinks. Their home base is YouTube, where they create long-form, high-production-value content. Everything else is a distribution channel for that content.

Nike, on the other hand, thrives on Pinterest, even though it's not an obvious choice. That’s because they’ve spent 40 years building an aspirational, inspirational brand—which fits perfectly with Pinterest’s ethos.

It’s not just about where your audience is—it’s about where your brand naturally fits and where your voice feels authentic.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:34.333)
Yes, that’s a great point. It’s not just about choosing a platform but matching the content format to what resonates with users there—whether that’s long-form video, short-form clips, static images, or text-heavy content.

Clayton McLaughlin (10:09.390)
Exactly. And measurement plays a huge role in this, too.

There are short-term and long-term metrics—what we call fast and slow data.

• Fast data includes immediate engagement metrics—likes, comments, shares.
• Slow data is about compound interest over time—how consistent organic efforts drive brand visibility, audience trust, and incremental reach.

Too often, brands get caught up in moment-in-time engagement and miss the bigger picture. Organic social isn’t about one viral post—it’s about consistent, strategic execution that builds momentum over time.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:42.825)
That’s a really important distinction. And it ties into proactive vs. reactive engagement.

Clayton McLaughlin (13:14.850)
Exactly. Organic Social isn’t a Field of Dreams—if you build it, they won’t necessarily come. You have to be proactive in community engagement.

• Reactive means responding to audience interactions on your own channels.
• Proactive means inserting your brand into relevant conversations elsewhere.

The best organic strategies don’t wait for engagement to happen—they create it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:28.268)
Absolutely. And quality over quantity is key—having high-value interactions with the right people is more important than vanity metrics like inflated follower counts.

Clayton McLaughlin (25:02.210)
100%. Be ruthless with platform selection and only invest in what you can sustain consistently. Inauthentic participation will hurt your brand more than no participation at all.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:30.823)
This has been so insightful, Clayton. Where can people find you if they want to connect?

Clayton McLaughlin (25:42.774)
Best place is LinkedIn—Clayton McLaughlin. Should be easy to spot—lots of gray hair.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (26:05.572)
We’ll link that in the show notes. Thanks so much, Clayton—this was a great conversation!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

Smarter Marketing Measurement: Your Competitive Edge for Revenue Growth

"The big ‘aha’ moment for most marketers comes when they cut something they thought was working, wait 30 or 60 days, and see that sales remain exactly the same. That realization—that they were spending money on something with zero impact—can be both eye-opening and unsettling." – That’s a quote from  Jeff Greenfield, CEO of Provalytics and a sneak peak at today’s episode. 

Today, we’re diving deep into one of the most critical challenges in modern marketing: measurement.

How do you know if your marketing dollars are truly driving revenue? Are you making data-driven decisions—or just guessing? 

In today’s episode Smarter Marketing Measurement – Your Competitive Edge for Revenue Growth, I’m joined by Jeff Greenfield, CEO and co-founder of Provalytics.

In this episode, Jeff and I discuss:
✔️ Why most marketing measurement is broken—and how to fix it
✔️ The impact of upper-funnel branding and how to prove its ROI
✔️ How AI and machine learning are transforming attribution
✔️ How to align marketing and finance using a single source of truth

Be sure to listen to the end where Jeff shares actionable steps to improve your measurement strategy today!

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran (00:01.144)
So welcome, Jeff. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Jeff Greenfield (00:07.758)
I'm Jeff Greenfield. I am the co-founder and CEO of Provalytics, an AI-driven attribution platform. Since 2008, I've been in this space to answer that old question from John Wanamaker: "Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted. The only problem is, I don't know which half." Since 2008, I've been helping marketers and brands determine which half is wasted and how to redeploy those existing funds to increase their return on investment.

Kerry Curran (00:45.678)
Excellent. We're excited to hear everything you know about analytics, data, and attribution. So tell us—when your prospects or brands call you for the first time, what are some of the business challenges they face that make them realize they need your help?

Jeff Greenfield (01:06.432)
I'd say one of the top challenges is the concept of overcounting. Most marketers operate in more than one channel—typically five or six or more. Each channel has its own way of counting. The best way to think about it is that when you're advertising on Meta, they don't know that you're also on TV. They don’t know that you're on Google. Criteo doesn’t know that you're on Amazon.

Kerry Curran (01:17.742)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (01:33.294)
If you have a thousand orders in a day and you're working across five partners, when you add up all their data, it may actually tell you that you had 5,000 orders. So, overcounting is a major issue. Marketers often ask, “How do I figure out all this math?”

Another big challenge is knowing that, as a marketer, you hear anecdotally that channels like connected television (CTV) and podcast advertising work for brands similar to yours. Yet, when you try them, you don’t see results, and you wonder, “What’s the magic? How is it working for them, but not for me?” You don’t see the numbers going up, and you’re trying to figure out why.

Finally, one of the biggest challenges is the constant tension between marketing and finance. Finance teams are heavy on math, and they often talk about marketers under their breath, saying we don’t understand how math works. Meanwhile, marketers think finance doesn’t understand how marketing works. This disconnect is critical because finance controls the budget. If you want more budget, you have to speak their language. Those tend to be the biggest issues.

Kerry Curran (02:57.442)
Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge. I’m nodding and laughing because we all know that CFOs are the hardest to convince of marketing’s value—especially for upper-funnel initiatives. I believe in the rising tide lifting all ships when it comes to marketing, but you're right. If you can’t align investment at the channel level or prove overall impact, it becomes much harder to justify.

You're helping clients identify the sources of traffic and revenue. How do you solve for this? How are you helping them build out a single source of truth?

Jeff Greenfield (03:47.534)
That’s the key—figuring it out. One issue within organizations is that, going back to my earlier example, if a company has five agencies, each agency is using its own methodology. They rely on platform metrics, their own internal metrics, and the marketing team’s metrics. So, if each agency uses three different methods, and then finance has its own, that means the company has 15 or 16 different sources of truth.

Kerry Curran (03:56.077)
Yeah.

Jeff Greenfield (04:17.358)
This becomes a huge issue. We solve it using a statistical, machine-learning, AI-driven approach.

Back in 2008, when I built C3 Metrics, we could collect 100% of the data—all website data, third-party data, and impression data. We could track an end-to-end trail, with date and timestamp, whenever someone converted.

Then, privacy regulations changed everything. Facebook, YouTube, iOS—they all said, “You can’t have impression data anymore.” Now, there are more data gaps than available data. So, we had to ask, “How do we fill these gaps?” That’s where statistics, machine learning, and AI come in.

The great thing is that we no longer need user-level first-party data. AI has become so advanced that all we need is daily aggregated marketing data from platforms and separate conversion data. We can link them together.

This allows us to connect digital and traditional channels to digital KPIs—whether on a company’s website, Amazon, or other marketplaces. We can even connect marketing impressions to individual scripts written each day.

We’re now in a privacy-centric world. We’re not tracking at the user level, but because of stronger math and faster computers, we can achieve insights that were previously impossible.

Kerry Curran (06:26.286)
That’s incredible. You bring up so many examples of how difficult it is to track conversions and touchpoints, and to demonstrate a channel’s benefit and halo effect. So, break it down—how do you help brands, as you’ve said before, measure the unmeasurable?

Jeff Greenfield (06:54.636)
It’s really about understanding how different channels impact one another.

I was talking earlier today with a TV agency for one of our clients, and I reminded them how much things have shifted. Years ago, direct response TV ads would say, “This product is only available through this 800 number—limited supplies!” People would stop what they were doing and call.

Now, consumers know they have options. They can visit the website, check Amazon, or walk into Walmart. The challenge is understanding how media in one channel influences conversions in another.

For example, a brand might run TV ads directing viewers to their website, but most people actually go to Amazon instead.

The biggest way we help brands is by taking data through a step-by-step process. First, we align the internal marketing team, because this is a new way of looking at data. Insights may feel uncomfortable at first—because they challenge assumptions.

Then, we work with agencies. Brands hire search agencies to follow Google's guidance. But when you're advertising in 20 different places, you need to shift focus. Convincing agencies to adopt a new methodology takes time.

Once everyone is aligned, we integrate the data into internal dashboards. This is where things get exciting—the CMO or VP of Marketing can go to finance and say, “Look at the dashboard. The numbers add up. Overcounting is fixed. The halo effect is accounted for.”

And that’s how you, as a marketer, get a bigger budget to grow the brand.

Kerry Curran (10:34.094)
That’s so smart. Change management is one of the hardest parts of implementing new strategies, especially in marketing. How do you convince marketers, agencies, and CFOs to trust your data?

Jeff Greenfield (11:04.142)
Great question. Unlike old attribution models, which weren’t incremental, our data is fully incremental.

To build trust, we back-test all data. We validate models using a method called K-fold testing. Instead of withholding a full month of data, we train the model with a month’s data but hold back different portions across multiple tests. This lets us validate the model while keeping recent data.

But the real proof comes when marketers act on our insights. The moment they cut a campaign they thought was working, and 30–60 days later, sales remain unchanged—that’s the aha moment.

Here’s the transcript with only grammar corrections, ensuring clarity while maintaining the original tone and intent:

Jeff Greenfield (11:04.142)
Well, that's a great question. Unlike the days of attribution—where the big complaint was that it was never incremental—our data is entirely based on incrementality. Everything we do is incremental. One of the ways we convince people of this is by back-testing all the data to validate the models.

Kerry Curran (11:05.688)
You.

Kerry Curran (11:11.054)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (11:33.986)
What I mean by that is, if you go back to the old days of marketing mix modeling, you would use about three years’ worth of data. The last month of data would be held back, and then you would ask the model to predict the revenue for that most recent month. You could then compare the prediction with actual revenue to assess how well the model worked, which helped build confidence in the results. However, those results were based on a three-year period and were primarily used for planning the next year.

Kerry Curran (12:03.832)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (12:04.158)
But marketers today are most interested in what happened in the last month or even the last week. We don’t want to hold back that data. There’s been a lot of work in machine learning and AI to validate models while still providing the most recent insights.

A technique called K-fold testing was developed for this purpose. It involves training the model using a month’s worth of data while holding back a portion of the days. For example, we might hold back the revenue, leads, or add-to-cart data for 20% of the days and ask the model to predict those values. Then we repeat the process, holding back a different 20%, and do this five times. By the end, we’ve held back 100% of the data at different points, allowing us to fully validate the model’s accuracy.

Even though we can show a chart demonstrating that the model predicts outcomes with, say, 93% accuracy, nothing beats real-world testing. If the model suggests that a campaign isn’t producing the expected results and recommends cutting it by 50%, we can test that recommendation by actually reducing the spend and observing what happens.

Kerry Curran (13:11.758)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (13:26.816)
The big “aha” moment for most marketers comes when they cut something they thought was working, wait 30 or 60 days, and see that sales remain exactly the same. That realization—that they were spending money on something with zero impact—can be both eye-opening and unsettling.

The truth is, if you’re not using analytics at this scale, much of what you’re doing may have little to no impact. That’s the first thing to recognize. But it’s also important to understand that you didn’t know any better before. The focus should always be on improving and moving forward. The best way to build trust in the model is to first show how well it predicts outcomes, and then implement the recommendations to see the results in action.

Kerry Curran (14:18.946)
Yeah, that’s so smart. I love how you’re able to prove the impact of your model and show how it works. It’s a challenge to truly understand what’s working in marketing.

One of the things we’ve discussed before is the impact of branding initiatives and how different channels influence the bottom line. How are you uncovering those insights for marketers, especially in channels where there’s less of a direct click path?

Jeff Greenfield (14:54.636)
First off, I think many marketers who have only worked in digital marketing have a warped view of how marketing actually functions. I blame Google Analytics for this because it’s entirely click-based.

Many marketers believe that we invest dollars to buy clicks, and clicks lead to sales—that’s how marketing works. But that’s actually not how marketing works.

The click is the last thing that happens. What we do as marketers is invest dollars to buy eyeballs, which we call impressions. We buy impressions to capture attention. The job of those impressions is to build awareness, and when awareness is built up enough, people will take action—whether that’s visiting a store or, in today’s world, clicking on a website.

For most brands today, their "store" is online, meaning clicks lead to conversions. But the hyper-focus on clicks—driven by Google, Meta, and other digital platforms—has pushed marketing dollars toward the lower funnel, at the expense of brand-building efforts.

Kerry Curran (16:22.126)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (16:22.242)
And that’s a problem because the lower funnel is the most competitive space. It’s a bidding war. If you spend the same budget this year as last year on a particular channel, you’ll likely get fewer clicks because the cost per click keeps rising. Just look at Meta’s and Google’s earnings reports—they keep increasing because advertisers are stuck in this lower-funnel trap.

Kerry Curran (16:42.232)
[Laughs] Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (16:50.102)
Larger brands are catching on. They’re moving up the funnel. Investing in upper-funnel marketing is the gift that keeps on giving because your funnel stays full. It delivers returns at twice the rate of lower-funnel tactics.

We measure this by focusing on how marketing actually works—tracking impressions rather than just clicks. Our impression-centric model allows us to compare different channels—linear TV, CTV, direct mail, paid social, and more—on an apples-to-apples basis.

Branding efforts often take longer to show impact, but we track multiple KPIs, not just revenue. We incorporate leading indicators, such as website traffic, call center volume, and other engagement metrics, to capture branding’s long-term effects.

Branding has always been critical, but now it's finally being recognized as the key to long-term growth.

Kerry Curran (18:40.856)
Mm-hmm.

Kerry Curran (18:44.812)
Yes, I completely agree. I’ve seen this play out across multiple brands. There’s been such a race to the bottom—just focusing on immediate conversions without building awareness or customer relationships.

I hope more marketers and CFOs are listening to this. Branding is the growth lane, and making smarter investments across channels is what truly drives long-term revenue growth.

Jeff Greenfield (19:18.614)
A thousand percent. Most marketing today is focused on offers, benefits, and limited-time deals. But brands that differentiate themselves with emotional messaging—connecting with their audience on a deeper level—win in the long run.

Marketers obsessed with lower-funnel performance often forget that consumers form emotional connections with brands, and those connections drive purchasing decisions. The complexity of digital marketing has caused many to lose sight of fundamental marketing principles.

Kerry Curran (20:14.53)
Yes, I agree! That’s exactly why we’re here—to help educate people on marketing strategies and foundations.

One key thing you’ve pointed out is that you can tie ad creative and messaging to performance. Going back to that emotional connection, how are you testing and measuring it?

Jeff Greenfield (20:43.694)
Absolutely. We incorporate ad creative as a dimension in our model. This works well for video, TV, and radio advertising. Even for search and social, brands can extract key ad attributes and integrate them into their marketing hierarchy.

Once you categorize creative elements, you can analyze which components are driving higher sales or leading indicators. This data informs future creative strategies, ensuring continuous improvement. That’s what makes this so exciting.

Kerry Curran (21:32.62)
I love that. Insights like these help brands become smarter, more efficient, and more effective with their marketing investments.

Jeff, thank you so much for your expertise. For marketers who want to improve their measurement approach, where should they start?

Here’s your transcript with only grammar corrections, ensuring clarity while maintaining the original tone and intent:

Jeff Greenfield (20:43.694)
Absolutely, because that becomes one of the dimensions of the model. What’s really exciting is that when brands actually take the time, they can easily analyze this for video advertising, TV, or radio. However, it becomes a bit more challenging when dealing with search and social ads.

That said, it doesn’t take much effort for marketers to go through their ads, identify key attributes, and integrate them into their marketing hierarchy. Once they do that, they can start seeing which ad components drive more sales or leading indicators. This, in turn, helps shape future creative decisions. That’s what makes this so exciting.

Kerry Curran (21:32.62)
Yeah, I love that. I love the level of insight, and anything that helps brands become smarter, more effective, and more efficient with their investments is incredibly valuable.

Jeff, I appreciate all of your insights. For the people listening who are thinking, I need to get smarter about my measurement, what are some foundational steps they should take to get ready?

Jeff Greenfield (21:59.128)
Well, the first thing I’d say is that most marketers running campaigns typically have a Google Sheet sitting on their desktop or laptop. It tracks daily spend, clicks, cost per click, and cost per sale. But what’s often missing is the impression number.

And chances are, when they downloaded the reports to build this sheet, impressions were included in the data—they just ignored the column.

Kerry Curran (22:09.422)
You.

Jeff Greenfield (22:28.096)
So, I’d recommend repulling all of that data for the last 12 months on a daily basis. Add an impressions column right after the date, then start graphing your daily impression volume alongside your daily clicks and daily sales. Look for relationships in the data.

This is a DIY approach to what we do at Provalytics.

Kerry Curran (22:40.204)
You.

Jeff Greenfield (22:54.302)
As you analyze these relationships, look for a time delay between impressions rising and an increase in clicks and conversions. When you identify days where impressions spiked and led to a later uptick in sales, dig into those specific days. What did you do differently? That’s the type of activity you want to do more of.

This is the first step in preparing for a paradigm shift—understanding that we buy impressions, and that’s where marketing analysis should begin.

Kerry Curran (23:17.166)
I'm sorry.

Jeff Greenfield (23:22.964)
The second step is education. At Provalytics, we’ve put a lot of thought into this, especially with all the privacy changes and how the industry is evolving.

We created an Attribution Certification Course that covers the past, present, and what we see as the future of attribution. Because marketing will continue to change, the best way to prepare is by strengthening your foundational knowledge.

The course is completely free. It takes about an hour and a half to complete, and there’s a quiz at the end. If you pass, you get a certification you can showcase on LinkedIn. It’s a great resource to deepen your understanding of how we got to where we are today.

Kerry Curran (24:11.278)
Excellent, Jeff! This is incredibly valuable. I’m definitely going to check out the Attribution Certification myself.

Tell us—how can people find you? Where can they get in touch with you and learn more about Provalytics?

Jeff Greenfield (24:25.634)
People can always find me on LinkedIn if they want to connect. They can also visit the Provalytics website, where we offer an on-demand demo.

We also host regular live demos, where we walk through the platform in detail and explain exactly how the modeling works. If anyone is interested, they can sign up, watch the demo, and schedule a time to chat with us.

I’m always happy to speak with marketers—or anyone interested in this space. I know that, to most marketers, this is just math, but to me, it’s kind of sexy.

Kerry Curran (25:07.382)
Awesome! Well, I’m glad we’re making data and attribution sexy again, right, Jeff?

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, insights, and free resources with the audience. This has been fantastic.

Jeff Greenfield (25:13.506)
That’s right.

Jeff Greenfield (25:27.064)
My pleasure, Kerry. Thank you so much for having me.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

“The brands that win aren’t just the ones with the biggest budgets—they’re the ones that strategically align performance and brand marketing to maximize reach and revenue.” That’s a quote from Cooper Schwartz and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hey there, I'm Kerry Curran, Revenue Growth Consultant, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast.

Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real revenue results. If you're serious about growth, hit subscribe to stay ahead of your competition.

In this episode, titled Monetizing Content: How Top Publishers and Brands Maximize Reach and Revenue Impact, Cooper Schwartz, Head of New Business and Growth at Money Group, shares his expertise.

In a crowded digital landscape, content alone isn’t enough. Brands need a strategy that turns visibility into real revenue. Cooper and I discuss strategies for leveraging publisher partnerships to create high-impact, holistic, cross-channel digital programs that drive both reach and ROI.

We dive into the winning formula for balancing performance marketing and brand strategy—and how to dominate non-branded paid search while outmaneuvering your competition.

Stay tuned until the end, where Cooper shares actionable strategies to optimize content for revenue growth. Let’s go!

Welcome, Cooper! Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Hi, Kerry. Thanks for having me. My name is Cooper Schwartz, and I am the Head of New Business and Growth at Money Group, a portfolio company that has been around for about 11 years. We own notable brands like Money.com and ConsumersAdvocate.org, as well as proprietary technology like NavChain. I'm also one of the founding partners and have been with the company for 11 years.

I was actually the first employee. I originally came from a therapy background—my mother is a therapist, and I thought I would follow in her footsteps. However, two of my close friends—one with 10 years at Google and the other at SEO Moz—convinced me to jump into affiliate marketing and help build this company. So here I am today, still finding opportunities in the market and excited to talk with you.

Awesome, thanks, Cooper! I had no idea about your therapy background. We could totally pivot and have a different conversation! I always say marketing is a lot like psychology—it plays a strong role in what we do, so I’m sure that background strengthens your expertise.

Anyway, I’m excited to have you here because I know you have a ton of valuable platforms.

Yeah, yeah.

You have a range of brands and technology under Money.com, so I’d love to hear more about how you're helping brands navigate their business challenges. When brands or agencies reach out to build a partnership with you, what are they typically looking for?

You're right—Money.com is a strong domain. Before it became Money.com, it was Money Magazine, a 50-year-old brand that people have nostalgia for. It was all about planning for the future and sharing insights on managing finances.

Today, brands still want to be aligned with the Money brand. But we don’t just offer content alignment—we provide a variety of campaigns and marketing opportunities. Many brands approach us saying, “We love the brand, we love the content—how can we work together?” That’s a great starting point for the many solutions we offer.

From non-branded paid search to placements across our ad network of about 150 publishers, we help brands engage with their audience in unique ways. Some of these publishers might be seen as competitors, but in reality, they’re “frenemies.” We help brands leverage content, align with our brand, activate paid search strategies, and secure placements on other high-authority sites, all while simplifying the management process.

That’s great. It sounds like brands really value the partnership and brand equity you offer. Can you walk us through how you start these relationships and build custom strategies to increase their awareness and authority?

Sure! There’s always an initial “interview” process—almost like dating. Not to take it back to therapy, but it’s about getting to know the brand:

• What are their needs?
• Who is their target audience?
• What are their expectations?
• What are their key performance goals?

We get a lot of inbound interest because money impacts nearly every industry. But we have to ensure alignment goes both ways—not just that they align with our audience, but also that we can effectively reach their audience.

At our scale, we also consider resources. Can we accommodate the brand in a way that sets them up for success? We prioritize enterprise-level partnerships that move the needle for both companies. That often means ensuring the investment in a given category can be six or seven figures annually—we need to create impact on both sides.

Once we’ve established alignment—brand fit, budget, resources—we dive into which marketing channels make sense:

• Are they already running paid search? If not, why?
• How can we help them expand their shelf space on Google?
• Is brand awareness the priority? If so, we can integrate them into our franchise content like Best Places to Live, Best Hospitals, Best Colleges, which reach wide audiences.
• Are they struggling to get placements in high-authority content? If so, we can help them secure placements on Forbes, NerdWallet, CBS News, CNN, and others.

That’s great! I love that you have such a wide portfolio of solutions that are fully customized to each brand’s goals.

So, let’s say an enterprise brand comes to you for a rebrand, product expansion, or new launch. You work with them to align with the right publishers and strategies. Can you share a specific example of a successful partnership?

Sure! One that I’m especially proud of is our partnership with ADT.

We’ve worked with ADT for about eight or nine years, originally in non-branded paid search—helping them reach high-intent consumers who were still undecided. Over time, our relationship evolved into exploring additional channels.

Last year, we launched a sponsorship activation for Money’s Best Places to Live, working closely with ADT’s PR, media acquisition, and marketing teams. The goal was to integrate ADT’s branding into content about protecting the best places to live.

This was a multichannel activation that included:

• Social media campaigns
• Video content
• Targeted PR efforts
• Weekly performance check-ins

The result? A high-impact security hub on Money.com featuring ADT across 100+ articles. It was a strategic, elegant execution.

Not only did we secure ADT placements on our own sites, but we also helped them get featured on CBS News, The New York Post, and other major publishers. This is the kind of holistic strategy that allows brands to gain visibility across multiple trusted sources.

That’s an excellent example! It really demonstrates how brands can layer multiple channels—from paid search to PR to content—to create a unified, impactful strategy.

Let’s shift gears to AI and Google’s generative search results. How do your strategies help brands compete with AI-driven summaries at the top of search results?

Great question! One core belief we’ve held is that editorial integrity matters. We prioritize keeping a human voice in our content while leveraging AI in strategic ways.

Here’s our approach:

1. Investing in real writers & editors – AI can assist, but human oversight ensures depth and quality.
2. Creating content clusters – Instead of one-off articles, we develop deep, interconnected content that builds expertise and authority.
3. Partnering with already-successful publishers – Instead of relying solely on our content, we collaborate with trusted media brands that are already ranking well.

The reality is, the pie is big enough. Rather than fighting for every ranking, we focus on working with the best—helping publishers monetize better while delivering results for our partners.

That’s a smart approach. So, for brands listening today—what’s the first step if they want to explore this strategy?

Start by researching who dominates your industry’s review space. Look at organic rankings, paid search, and media partnerships. If you see competitors investing in multiple touchpoints, that’s a sign they’re onto something.

Then, reach out! You can contact me at cooper@money.com or find me on LinkedIn.

Awesome! We’ll include those links in the show notes. Cooper, thank you so much for your time and insights today!

Thank you, Kerry!

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. If you're struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth, you are not alone. That's why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster.

So if you're serious about your revenue growth, hit follow,  subscribe, and drop a five-star rating. It helps us keep the game-changing content coming, as we're dropping new episodes regularly—and you don’t want to miss out.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

“The company that grows isn’t the one with the best solutions—it’s the one with the best marketing that truly connects with its audience.” That’s a quote from Sheri Otto and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hi there, I’m Kerry Curran, Revenue Growth Consultant, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast. Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real revenue results.

So if you’re serious about growth, hit subscribe to stay ahead of your competition.

In this episode, titled Founder-Led Growth: Winning with Authenticity in a Noisy Market, I’m joined by Sheri Otto, founder of Growth Lane Strategies.

In today’s crowded digital space, authenticity is the ultimate competitive advantage. Sheri and I discuss the winning strategies behind founder-led growth and how to leverage the power of video and behavioral science to create demand-driven content that actually converts.

We cover the biggest content mistakes SaaS and B2B brands make—and how you can stand out in a saturated market without relying on AI-generated fluff.

Be sure to stay tuned until the end, where Sheri shares her expert tips on how to amplify your authenticity and turn your content into a demand generation engine.

Let’s go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.354)

Welcome, Sheri! Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Sheri Otto (00:08.462)

Hi, Kerry. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm super excited to be here! I'm Sheri Otto, the founder and CEO of Growth Lane Strategies. We help founders and SaaS businesses with content marketing for demand.

We don’t just create content—we engineer it to drive pipeline and demand for businesses. In this era of AI, we focus on human connection, helping brands deeply engage with their audience. We use strategies like video and behavioral science to support SaaS and tech founders in growing their brands and standing out in today’s competitive landscape.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:46.952)

That’s excellent, Sheri! I'm so excited for our conversation. I know we first met because you were giving me tips, and I said, "We need to share this with the world!"

You've been in marketing for a while—how have you seen the landscape evolve to the point where you realized businesses needed this approach and decided to start your own company?

Sheri Otto (01:07.906)

Absolutely! Coming from Big Tech, with over a decade of B2B marketing experience—including at HubSpot, smaller brands, and agencies—I’ve seen a common theme across all of them:

How do you create content for demand? How do you nurture leads? How do you cut through the noise and establish leadership?

The companies that grow aren’t necessarily the ones with the best solutions—they’re the ones with the best marketing. The ones that effectively:

• Connect with their target audience
• Influence the buyer’s journey
• Build efficiencies into their sales process

These were major gaps in the industry, and now, with AI-generated content saturating the market, brands are simply pumping out content without tying it to real revenue generation.

That’s why I started my consultancy—to help businesses strategically create and distribute content that drives demand and fuels growth.

A big part of this is middle-of-the-funnel content. Research shows that buyers in the consideration phase are actively looking for:

• Case studies
• Trainings
• Deeper educational content

Many brands skip this step, jumping straight from awareness (top of funnel) to conversion (bottom of funnel), leaving a huge gap in nurturing potential customers. I help them fill that gap in a way that ensures they are memorable in the minds of their audience.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:06.921)

I love that! We talk a lot about the challenges B2B brands face today—especially since it’s a buyer’s market.

Buyers are spending more time researching and learning about vendors before making decisions. That means brands need a strong content strategy to meet them where they are.

I also love what you said earlier—the best solutions aren’t always the most successful brands. The ones winning market share are those mastering video strategy and personal branding.

Many of my peers—people who have been in the industry for 20+ years—weren’t raised in the video-first era, so it can feel uncomfortable at first. Meanwhile, younger marketers are leveraging video effortlessly and capturing more attention.

I’m excited to dive deeper into your expertise! So, let’s start with your top tips. What tools can leaders use to accelerate their thought leadership and content strategy?

Sheri Otto (04:29.228)

First of all, Kerry, I love that you’re talking about this on your platform—kudos to you!

Step one is showing up online. You need to have a voice, an opinion, and a consistent presence.

A few practical steps to start:

1. Optimize your LinkedIn profile.
   
   
   • Use a clear, professional headshot.
   • Write a short, strong value statement explaining who you help and how.
2. Start creating content consistently.
   
   
   • Focus on thought leadership that positions you as an expert.
   • The winning brands today are leveraging founder-led and audience-led strategies—not just relying on traditional marketing.

Many professionals don’t realize that they already have valuable insights to share!

• You think about your expertise.
• You talk about it with colleagues.
• You write about it internally.

The key is getting those insights out of your head and into the world.

One simple way? Voice notes.

• Use Google Voice Typing or a notes app.
• Record your thoughts on key topics or FAQs your audience has.
• Then, take those raw notes and use ChatGPT to format them into posts, scripts, or bullet points.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:20.379)

That’s such a great tip! It removes the pressure of researching or over-planning. You already know your subject—just start documenting it.

Sheri Otto (07:50.134)

Exactly! And you can use tools to refine it:

• Google’s "People Also Ask" section – See what people are searching for.
• Social media – What questions are being asked in your niche?
• Competitor content – What conversations are trending?

When you see a question you already have an answer for—that’s your sign to create content around it.

And remember: Content with a purpose wins.

• Where do you want to direct your audience? A blog, community, newsletter?
• Every piece of content should connect to a broader strategy.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:31.817)

I love that! You also mentioned ChatGPT for formatting. A key challenge is consistency—how do leaders ensure they’re prioritizing content creation?

Sheri Otto (09:46.858)

Batching!

A simple way to stay consistent is to batch your content:

1. Write multiple video scripts at once.
   • Instead of one script, write three to five short ones.
2. Film in one session.
   • If you're new to this, start with three videos per session.
   • If you're experienced, aim for six.
3. Use ChatGPT as an assistant.
   • Give it a format you like and have it structure your content.

This way, you have weeks of content ready to go without scrambling last minute.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:12.809)

That’s perfect! It makes content creation more efficient and less overwhelming.

Let’s talk video—why is it the best content format today?

Sheri Otto (11:07.384)

Through that template, I'll do that three or four times, and that becomes my batch for the next month. It's a really cool way to stay consistent.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:12.809)

That's perfect! And I totally relate to that—when we can sit down and focus, we're so much more effective and efficient with our time.

You've talked about different types of content that you're publishing, but tell us more about why video is really the best approach.

Sheri Otto (11:31.584)

Yes, absolutely! The reason why video allows people to connect with you is because, first, people can see and hear you. They can see your mannerisms—like how my hands are moving—they can hear my voice. And if they hear it again, it triggers something in their brain. There's a sense of familiarity and comfort that develops.

Sheri Otto (11:59.902)

Video accelerates the lead nurturing process. There are a lot of statistics and studies around this, which is why I incorporate video at every stage of the funnel—middle-of-the-funnel training, top-of-the-funnel short-form content, and bottom-of-the-funnel demo videos. Video can do so much for you.

Another reason I strongly encourage video as part of your go-to-market strategy and personal brand is that all social media platforms are prioritizing video in their algorithms.

If you pull the 2024 report from LinkedIn, it will tell you—video is key. Platforms are pushing video, meaning they’re giving more reach and impressions to short-form videos.

The sweet spot is 60 to 90 seconds—this gives you the opportunity to get in front of more eyeballs because the algorithms are favoring vertical short-form videos.

Especially, Kerry, when you have a strong hook, which I know we'll get into in a second. But yes, that’s my recommendation—and I think you and I will be working on this soon too!

One thing I want to say before we get into the hook is that a lot of times, we feel like everything needs to be perfect—polished words, flawless delivery, a professional setup.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:02.686)

Yes.

Sheri Otto (13:23.732)

But actually, that mindset is counterintuitive because people relate to you more when you’re not perfect. Authenticity resonates.

That’s going to carry even more weight now that AI is dominating the digital space. How can you stand out? By being real.

Share your stories, share your vulnerabilities—because that's how we truly connect.

I always push for storytelling in video because that’s how we create deeper connections.

And remember—your video doesn't have to be a perfect production. You don’t need perfect lighting, a professional setup, or a fancy studio. You could literally just stand in front of a plain wall.

At the end of the day, people are curious about people.

And no matter how advanced AI becomes, human connection is still currency.

So just start—try it out, and you’ll see the difference.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:17.193)

I love that! And you're right.

Some of your best videos are so natural—you're out and about, sometimes outside on a sunny day, sometimes inside. But every time, it creates that human connection, and it makes you a more authentic advocate for your audience.

So, let's get to the hook. I know that’s often the hardest part. Talk to us about why hooks matter and share some tips for creating a strong one.

Sheri Otto (14:22.35)

You got it! Okay, so we all know that when people are scrolling, they’re looking to either:

1. Be informed
2. Be entertained
3. Be educated

And because we’re constantly scrolling on autopilot, we need something to disrupt that pattern.

That’s where your hook comes in.

You need a strong hook to stop the scroll.

I hear objections to this sometimes, Kerry. A colleague of mine who’s been in business for over 20 years once told me, “I don’t want to sound too hooky.”

And my response was—why is that a bad thing?

You don’t have to sound gimmicky—you just need to get their attention.

That’s the reality.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:14.609)

Exactly!

Sheri Otto (15:41.858)

In a world where AI can generate anything, our challenge is retaining attention—and the hook is how you do it.

Some of the best hooks are:

1. Bold statements
2. Contrarian viewpoints
3. Curiosity-driven openers

But the key is making it easily digestible.

A great hook makes people stop and think, “Huh, that’s interesting.”

And here’s something not a lot of people realize—short hooks work better than long ones.

The first sentence should be compact and powerful—almost like a catchphrase.

For example, one of my best-performing hooks was:

"We all need to create content to get discovered, right?"

That video got hundreds of thousands of impressions because:

1. It’s a universal truth—people agree with it.
2. It makes them curious—where is she going with this?
3. It’s a question—which our brains automatically want to answer.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:45.095)

I love that!

Sheri Otto (17:07.634)

Exactly. And I use questions a lot in my hooks because our brains are wired to respond to them.

For example, I once did a “day in the life” video with the hook:

"Ever wondered what a go-to-market strategy really looks like?"

And that one did really well—several hundred thousand impressions. It made people think, Yeah, we all do need to create content. Okay, what’s she talking about? or What do you mean?

So, here’s the thing about questions—when you use a question as your hook, something happens in our brains: we can’t ignore it.

That video performed incredibly well because people already had their own opinions, and they wanted to compare them to mine.

So when you’re crafting a hook, think:

• Does this make people curious?
• Does it challenge a common belief?
• Is it short and easy to consume?

If the answer is yes, you’re on the right track!

I learned this years ago—if you ask a question, it's harder to ignore because our brains are automatically inclined to answer it.

For example, in one of my day in the life videos, I used the hook:

"Have you ever wondered what a go-to-market strategy really looks like?"

That video did really well because people already have opinions on go-to-market strategies. So when I shared my perspective, people wanted to compare it to their own.

It's all about understanding your audience and the themes that resonate with them.

Sheri Otto (18:27.618)

Bold statements and questions make great hooks because they’re easily consumable.

So no long-winded sentences—keep them compact.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:35.005)

I love that! That’s such valuable, actionable advice.

Now, I know everyone wants their content to go viral. While there’s no guaranteed way to make that happen, what are some things people can do to increase their chances of getting picked up by the algorithm?

SheriOtto (18:43.992)

Yeah!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:02.609)

What are your top tips for gaining traction with the algorithm?

Sheri Otto (19:04.472)

So, the number one thing algorithms prioritize is watch time.

If your video is five minutes long, most people won’t watch the whole thing. That’s why you need to keep your videos short—because watch time matters.

Inside your video, you can also use micro-hooks—mini hooks that keep people engaged throughout.

If you’re giving value, you want to build anticipation so there’s a big payoff at the end.

This aligns with the behavioral science principle called the curiosity gap (or information gap).

It works like this:

• You give people half of the information upfront.
• You let them know they’ll get the rest at the end.
• This keeps them engaged because they want to stick around for the full answer.

The result? Increased watch time.

And when the algorithm detects higher watch time, it pushes your video to more people.

I can’t guarantee you’ll go viral, but this strategy will help you get more impressions.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:16.749)

That’s huge!

I love that you're tying psychology into this. I was a psych major too, so I love applying human behavior to marketing strategy.

And what you’re describing reminds me of classic storytelling techniques—building tension and getting people to lean in.

Sheri Otto (20:44.189)

Exactly!

And you don’t even have to say, “Wait until the end.”

Instead, you could say:

"There are three go-to-market strategies shaping the market today."

Then, in the first 50 seconds, you give two of them—and people want to stay for the third.

The third point doesn’t come until the last five or ten seconds—but by structuring your video this way, you increase watch time while still providing value.

It’s all about using behavioral science to stop the scroll and keep people engaged.

I love doing this! I always analyze my videos and ask myself, How did this one perform? Some will get great reach, others won’t.

But that’s why you iterate. You test different hooks, different structures, and eventually, you’ll find the ones that work best.

And when you find a winning format, replicate it!

Sheri Otto (21:52.556)

Use the same hook format, the same text strategy, and keep testing.

There’s no silver bullet, but these tactics will get you closer to increasing reach.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:02.185)

Love that! So helpful.

Now, for people listening who love these insights but feel overwhelmed—what’s the first step to getting started?

Sheri Otto (22:17.578)

Okay, I’ll break it down into steps because I love concrete action plans.

1. Recognize that you’re an expert.
   
   
   • You already have valuable insights that people need to hear.
2. Start capturing your thoughts.
   
   
   • Use a voice recorder, notes app, or Otter.ai to speak your ideas—don’t overthink it.
3. Block time on your calendar.
   
   
   • Dedicate time to talk through three key topics or questions your audience has.
4. Use ChatGPT to structure your content.
   
   
   • Ask it to format your notes into bulleted takeaways, a strong hook, and a CTA.
5. Batch your videos.
   
   
   • Don’t just film one—film at least three at a time.
   • If you’ve been doing this for a while, aim for six.
6. Keep it short and authentic.
   
   
   • No fancy editing. No overthinking. Just be real.
7. Schedule your content.
   
   
   • Once it's ready, schedule it so it goes out consistently.

And that’s it!

For example, while we’re recording this podcast, I have a pre-scheduled video going live—I don’t even have to think about it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:31.165)

This is so helpful, Sheri!

How can people connect with you and learn more?

Sheri Otto (24:40.558)

Yeah! You can find me on LinkedIn—just search Sheri Otto.

Or visit my website: growthlanestrategies.com.

There, you’ll find free resources, client case studies, and videos with even more tips.

I also offer free growth plan sessions, so if you want to go deeper, check that out!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:10.185)

Amazing. Thank you so much, Sheri—I learned a ton today.

I’d love to have you back on the show in the future!

Sheri Otto (25:21.272)

Thank you, Kerry! It was a pleasure to be here.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:23.818)

Thank you.

Kerry Curran, RBMA:

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you're struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth, you're not alone. That's why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real world success stories to help you scale faster. If you're serious about revenue growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a five star rating today. It helps us keep the game changing content coming.

New episodes drop regularly, so you don't want to miss out.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

“Search is no longer just about Google—it’s a behavior happening everywhere, from TikTok and Amazon to ChatGPT and Perplexity. To win in this new era, brands need to deeply understand their audience and align their SEO, social strategy, and authenticity across every platform where discovery happens.” That’s a quote from Melíssa Harden and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hi there, I'm Kerry Curran, Fractional Chief Marketing Officer, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth.

In this episode, titled Mastering Search Intelligence: Ranking Strategies Across Social, AI, Voice, and Video, I'm joined by Melíssa Harden, VP of Search Intelligence at Digitas.

Melíssa and I discuss how search behavior has expanded far beyond Google. Today, brands must master ranking strategies across platforms—from TikTok to Amazon, from ChatGPT to Perplexity, as well as voice search and video content.

This episode offers a forward-looking guide for marketers to thrive in the ever-evolving digital landscape while driving revenue growth. Let’s go!

Welcome, Melíssa! Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Yeah, thank you so much, Kerry. My name is Melíssa Harden, and I am the VP of Search Intelligence at Digitas in the U.S. I have an extensive background in SEO and digital marketing. I swear I’m still young, but I’m approaching 18 years in the industry!

My experience spans a variety of sectors. I worked at Meredith in the publications space when commerce publishing was just taking off. I’ve also been part of the startup world in the tech industry and have done significant work in commerce and retail.

I’ve had the opportunity to experience search from multiple perspectives—whether at scale or in unique B2B applications. I’ve been tracking Google’s evolution for a long time, analyzing and dissecting changes to understand where search is heading.

Well, I’m really excited to have you on! To start, I think your role is a testament to the importance of search—it’s impressive that you have a search intelligence title. Can you share more about what that entails?

Yeah, great question! Search intelligence isn’t something you typically see when looking for an SEO role. It’s more about understanding the current state of search and how multiple factors are converging at once.

When people hear SEO, they often think only of Google. One of the key messages I try to evangelize is that search is a behavior, and it happens across every platform.

At Digitas, we focus on emerging search trends—not just Google and its market share, but also TikTok search, emerging search engines like Perplexity and ChatGPT, and how users search within Amazon or Walmart. All of these platforms shape how people discover information.

Winning in search today requires more than just technical SEO or content SEO. Brands need to consider their audience, branding, social strategy, CRM, and customer loyalty programs—all of which impact search rankings and visibility.

Absolutely. I started my digital marketing career as an SEO manager back when title tags and descriptions were the most important factors—way back in the aughts! It’s fascinating how search has evolved.

You touched on how consumer search behavior is shifting across multiple platforms. Can you dive deeper into the behavioral trends you’re seeing and how they’re driving platform innovation?

Definitely. About three years ago, search behavior started expanding beyond Google in a significant way. TikTok was one of the first platforms to challenge Google in terms of search behavior.

Platforms like Pinterest, TikTok, and YouTube became search destinations because users preferred their content formats. Instead of clicking on a webpage in Google, users could watch short-form videos on TikTok, create vision boards on Pinterest, or find in-depth video content on YouTube.

This shift forced platforms like TikTok to evolve into search engines, even though that wasn’t their original intent. Users started treating them like search engines, which meant these platforms had to adjust their algorithms and product teams had to rethink their approach.

That makes a lot of sense. Amazon is another example—it’s now the #1 platform for product discovery. Nobody browses Amazon; everyone goes straight to the search bar.

How do you see AI-driven search engines like ChatGPT and Perplexity fitting into this evolution?

It’s the same pattern we saw with TikTok—AI platforms weren’t originally built to be search engines, but user behavior is forcing them to become one.

ChatGPT was initially launched to assist with productivity and content generation, but users started asking it questions like they would on Google. The challenge was that early versions of ChatGPT only had data up until 2021.

Now, OpenAI has integrated real-time search capabilities, using Bing’s search data. They initially planned to launch “Search GPT” separately but quickly realized people don’t want to switch between two platforms. So now, ChatGPT merges AI-driven responses with live web search results.

Meanwhile, Perplexity has become an AI-powered search engine with a different approach. Unlike ChatGPT, Perplexity doesn’t have a direct Google partnership, but its top results often align with Google’s top 10 rankings. It also includes citations and links, making it a more transparent search experience than some AI platforms that just generate answers without crediting sources.

That’s fascinating! And you mentioned that Perplexity is growing at a rapid rate. Tell us more about that.

Yes! I didn’t run the data myself, but I’ve seen reports that Perplexity is growing at 70% month-over-month. That’s huge. For comparison, ChatGPT is growing around 40-45% per month, which is still impressive.

If this trajectory continues, projections suggest ChatGPT could rival Google in four years. That might seem like a long time, but in tech evolution, four years is nothing.

That’s a big shift for marketers. How should brands and agencies prepare for these changes?

It comes down to knowing your audience. This sounds like a marketing cliché, but many brands think they know their audience when they actually don’t.

Audiences behave differently on different platforms. What works on Google isn’t the same as what works on TikTok, Amazon, or AI-driven platforms. Also, authenticity is more critical than ever. With AI-generated content flooding the internet, consumers are questioning what’s real. Brands need to be transparent, show their people, and engage in meaningful ways.

Google and AI search engines now factor in brand authority, engagement, and user experience—it’s not just about keywords anymore. Social signals, digital PR, and content engagement all contribute to rankings.

I love that. A lot of the brand strategy work I’ve been doing lately focuses on authenticity and audience connection. It’s a lot to think about, but starting with the audience is the right foundation.

Melíssa, any final tips or advice?

Yes—stay informed and embrace change. This moment reminds me of the late 1990s, when businesses still relied on Yellow Pages ads, unsure about the internet’s potential.

Today, we’re at another turning point with AI-driven search. It will be bumpy for the next few years, but brands that adapt and integrate their marketing efforts across channels will win.

That’s such great advice. Before we wrap up, tell everyone where they can follow your insights and content.

For professional inquiries, you can reach me at Melíssa.harden@digitas.com.

For industry insights, my husband and I started a YouTube podcast called The Search Bar—you can find us at Harden Search Bar on YouTube. Instead of just discussing search over dinner, we decided to put some mics in front of us!

That’s awesome! We’ll link to everything in the show notes. Melíssa, thank you so much—this was fantastic. Looking forward to seeing you next week!

Same here! Thanks, Kerry.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.