Psychologists Off the Clock – Details, episodes & analysis

This week on Psychologists Off the Clock, Jill takes on the dynamic blend of science and art in therapy with our amazing guest, Dr. Michael Alcee, a mental health educator and the author of Therapeutic Improvisation: How to Stop Winging It and Own It as a Therapist. Michael sheds light on the vital balance between left-brain logic and right-brain creativity that makes for effective psychotherapy, shares thoughts on the power of humor, metaphor, and emotional connection, and reveals how therapists can embrace their creative side while staying rooted in scientific principles.  With fascinating examples from Miichael’s professional experience, he presents practical strategies to help therapists enhance their intuitive skills, boost their therapeutic presence, and build stronger connections with their clients. Please join us for an intriguing discovery of how blending science and art can elevate your therapeutic practice and transform the outcome of your client sessions! Listen and Learn:  How the art of therapy and music intertwine to create healing conversations that inspire growth The surprising encounter with Irving Yalom that revealed profound insights into the art of therapy and led Michael to write his book  How therapy becomes an art, blending science and creativity to help clients find their true selves Embracing intuition, creativity, and improvisation as a therapist to enhance your practice Understanding left and right brain dynamics and how it enhances therapy, fostering creativity and insight  How the concept "mindsight" and "wise mind" blend logic and emotion in therapy How therapists can embrace metaphor and intuition for deeper client connections and transformative outcomes  Resources: Therapeutic Improvisation: How to Stop Winging It and Own It as a Therapist https://michaelalcee.com/ https://michael-alcee.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-alcee-14417755/ https://www.instagram.com/mike_drop_/ https://www.facebook.com/livelifecreatively2/ Mentioned in this episode: The Courage to Create: https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Create-Rollo-May/dp/0393311066 About Michael Alcee Michael Alcée, PhD, is a clinical psychologist in Tarrytown, NY, and is a Mental Health Educator at the Manhattan School of Music. In his first book, Therapeutic Improvisation: How to Stop Winging It and Own It as a Therapist (Norton, 2022), Michael demonstrated how all clinicians are artists, reading the changes like well-versed jazz musicians, finding the poetic turns in their client's stories like skilled writers, and reveling in the creative act that emerges in the humanistic encounter of psychotherapy. His forthcoming book is entitled The Upside of OCD: Flip the Script to Reclaim Your Life (Rowman & LIttlefield, 2024) and aims to add depth to the exploration and understanding of the OCD experience. Michael has been a TEDx speaker and organizer and is a regular contributor at Psychology Today along with contributions to NPR, The Chicago Tribune, and The New York Times, among others. You can also find him on The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman and on Shrink Rap Radio. Related Episodes 82. Therapist Self Doubt with Jim Lucas 106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser 158. Maybe You Should Talk to Someone with Lori Gottlieb 294. Yes And: Improv in Psychology with Kelly Leonard 269. Connection Through Vulnerability with Rikke Kjelgaard 366. Psychologists ON the Clock: Getting Experiential with Us Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you in the midst of a midlife transition, grappling with big questions about purpose, change, and self-discovery? For this week’s episode, cohost Debbie Sorensen celebrates her 50th birthday with a discussion on the transformative period of midlife with her friend, Dr. Meg McKelvie.  A period rich with psychological shifts, existential questions, and challenges in finding deeper meaning, they get into acceptance and commitment therapy, emotional, psychical and cognitive changes, ways to overcome people-pleasing habits, and much much more.  With practical exercises and writing practices, this episode is a gift to anyone navigating midlife transitions and relationships, offering insight, reflection, and a path toward deeper understanding and fulfilling connections. We hope you enjoy this heartfelt and poignant conversation!  Listen and Learn: Opportunities that midlife brings for deeper understanding and transformation Confronting body changes and the aging process  How your relationships can become deeper in midlife; letting go of surface-level bonds and embracing genuine honesty and shared experiences The myth of the midlife crisis and how, contrary to what stereotypes lead us to believe, it frequently involves a sharp internal existential shift rather than a dramatic upheaval Living with unanswered questions and learning to sit with the discomfort of uncertainty Ways you can cultivate a personal space that nurtures self-reflection and self-sufficiency The lessons that regret can teach us The value of sitting with challenging emotions such as anger and grief, and how these feelings can provide critical insights into your life  The difference between body neutrality and body positivity and how stepping back from the internal debate about your body can lead to a more peaceful relationship with yourself Resources: Meg’s website: https://www.drmegmckelvie.com/ LInk to the “Soul-Searching Questions” handout on Meg’s website and Debbie’s website.  More writing resources from Meg and Debbie:  Meg’s writing workshops: https://www.drmegmckelvie.com/workshopsgroups Debbie’s Instagram for journaling prompts: https://www.instagram.com/drdebbiesorensen/ Debbie’s Guided Journaling substack: https://guidedjournaling.substack.com/  345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock A Substack essay Debbie wrote on her 50th birthday A commentary on the Surgeon General’s recent advisory on parental stress, by co-hosts Debbie and Emily, and former co-host Yael Schonburn!  Books mentioned in the episode:  Finding Meaning In the Second Half of Life: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781592402076  The Heroine's Journey: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781611808308 Related episodes:  199. Belonging From the Inside Out with Meg McKelvie 345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock 315. Hot & Bothered: Menopause with Jancee Dunn  291. Finding Freedom From Regret with Robert Leahy  257. The Gift of Being Ordinary with Ron Siegel 242. Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management with Oliver Burkeman 351. You Only Die Once with Jodi Wellman 274. Quarterlife: The Search for Self in Early Adulthood with Satya Doyle Byock 138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser  116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune 285. What Do You Want Out of Life? Values Fulfillment Theory with Valerie Tiberius  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you’re unsure about life's big decisions and tired of making endless pros and cons lists, we’ve got a bonus co-host episode just for you! We’re helping you break down complex decisions into easy-to-follow exercises that you can do right along with us or on your own time. From understanding your comfort zone to making tough choices based on values rather than fear or external pressures, we've got it all covered. It's like having your very own therapist in your earbuds. So join us, grab a pen and paper, and let us guide you in living a more purposeful life! Resources: Jill’s Newsletter archive:https://jillstoddard.com/newsletter-archives Go with Your Gut:  https://jillstoddard.mykajabi.com/e/BAh7BjoWZW1haWxfZGVsaXZlcnlfaWRsKwhzfBVgAwA%3D--474f34703358236832a89a99e3d07f24cb493f21?skip_click_tracking=true Decision-Making:https://jillstoddard.mykajabi.com/e/BAh7BjoWZW1haWxfZGVsaXZlcnlfaWRsKwiOXf2cAgA%3D--fe7bdba30eb4f5f3cf33c61f944ca6a6fc5b1458?skip_click_tracking=true Related Episodes: 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard 285. What Do You Want Out of Life? Values Fulfillment Theory with Valerie Tiberius 262. Hope and Values in Dark Times with Us 238. Values During Times of Transition (with Us) 218. Off the Clock with Us 116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Racial trauma has been caused by centuries of discrimination and violence against African Americans; a legacy of injustice that has had a long-term impact on mental, emotional, and psychical well-being. While there is no one-size-fits-all approach to healing Black racial trauma; transformation and change are still possible. A powerful tool to help those who have been impacted by racism is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). We talk with Research Scientist and Clinician, Jennifer Shepard Payne who in her book, Out of the Fire: Healing Black Trauma Caused by Systemic Racism Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, offers a thorough examination of the application of ACT to the unique problems that African Americans face. Jennifer describes how she is culturally adapting traditional ACT practices, and how this therapy can help African American communities heal from generations of oppression. Listen and Learn: What motivated Jennifer to specialize in culturally tailoring Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) for African American communities Why Jennifer wrote a book on healing Black Trauma  Jennifer's personal experience with racism as a Black woman in America What Jennifer thinks about the disparity in the current mental health system for African Americans Jennifer’s perspective on resilience in relation to Black racial trauma  What inspired Jennifer to pursue ACT, and how beneficial it can be in assisting African Americans who have suffered racial trauma The concept of Racial Battle Fatigue The importance of collective black values for the future Resources: Visit Jennifer's website to discover more about her: https://www.drjspayne.com/ Grab your copy of Jeniffer’s book: Out of the Fire: Healing Black Trauma Caused by Systemic Racism Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781684039883 Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych, including Yael’s new book, Work, Parent, Thrive!: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781611809657 Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more! About Jennifer Shepard Payne Jennifer Shepard Payne, Ph.D., LCSW, is a Research Scientist and Clinician for the Kennedy Krieger Institute in the Center for Child and Family Traumatic Stress (CCFTS) and theCenter for the Neuroscience of Social Injustice. She is also an Assistant Professor in the John Hopkins University School of Medicine with a primary appointment within the Department of Psychiatry, Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. She serves as the coordinator of the Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) Clinical Services within the adult segment of CCFTS. Dr. Payne received her doctorate from the UCLA School of Public Affairs and is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with many years of experience in mental health clinical practice and administration. Her research interests include developing culturally tailored community-based depression and trauma interventions and addressing minority mental health disparities.  For several years, Dr. Payne has been working on culturally tailoring Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) for African American communities experiencing racial trauma. She developed a culturally-tailored ACT intervention called POOF® and is training and consulting on the model: www.POOF-PullingOutOfFire.com. Additionally, she is a board member of MEND, an international organization of clinicians of color who are trauma-trained to help oppressed communities (www.mendminds.org). Her new book is called Out of the Fire: Healing Black Trauma Caused by Systemic Racism Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we go through life, we all have experiences, both positive and negative, that shape who we are. Sometimes, we focus too much on the negative experiences and start to think "why me?". In order to counter this negative spiral, we can choose to focus on the positive and use this to empower ourselves. Instead, ask yourself "what now?". You can improve your outlook on life by changing your mindset. This in turn will help free yourself from limiting beliefs, heal and move forward.  With great admiration and gratitude, we welcome an inspiring mother-daughter duo, Dr. Edith Eger, and Dr. Marianne Engel who through their expertise as Clinical Psychologists, work together to promote healing, positivity, and personal growth. In this deeply personal, yet profound interview, we take a look at the learnings presented in the latest edition of Dr. Eger’s uplifting and actionable guide to healing, The Gift: 14 Lessons to Save Your Life.  Paralleled by lessons from the book, we also learn about Edith’s courageous story of surviving Auschwitz and finding her path to freedom, as well as Marianne’s own experience as the child of an immigrant parent and holocaust survivor, navigating marriage and raising children. Focusing on overcoming adversity, relationships, giving up shame, and living with purpose, we bring you a powerful and thought-provoking episode that inspires you to take on any obstacles life presents.  Listen and Learn:  The dangers of being a prisoner of your own mind Survivor vs. victim mindset  Why Marianne is grateful to her mother for shielding her from her painful past What drew both Edith and Marianne to the field of clinical psychology The best way to move towards readiness to confront trauma Holding your truth while relinquishing the need for power and control The importance of flexible thinking in relationships  Why Edith believes people should give up perfectionism How do we resist hating the haters, and we why should Edith and Marianne's tips for parents hoping to have close relationships with their children throughout their lives Resources:  To learn more about Edith, visit: https://dreditheger.com/ To learn more about Marianne, visit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-engle-7b930a2b Check out Edith’s book, The Gift: 14 Lessons to Save Your Life: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781982143091 Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych, including Yael’s new book, Work, Parent, Thrive!: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781611809657 Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more! About Edith Eger: Dr. Edith Eger is a sought-after clinical psychologist and lecturer who brings a message of healing and personal growth in her speaking and in her books The Choice and The Gift. She uses her past as a Holocaust survivor and thriver to inspire people to tap their full potential and shape their very best destinies regardless of their circumstances. It’s a message of CHOICE to move from recovery to discovery and beyond and encouragement to find the gifts of even the most painful situations.  About Marianne Engle: Dr. Marianne Engle, is Edith’s daughter and collaborator. Marianne is also a psychologist with training in sports psychology. As a child, Marianne watched her mother struggle in the aftermath of the Holocaust. In fact, Edith didn’t tell Marianne about her experiences in the Holocaust until Marianne discovered it by finding a book in her parent’s collection and put the pieces together.  Edith and Marianne are an inspiring mother-daughter duo working together to bring healing and positivity to the world and we’ll be focusing on messages offered in the newest edition of Dr. Eger’s book, The Gift: 14 Lessons to Save Your Life, which is colored with Marianne’s influence Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Finding moments of silence can be difficult in our chaotic, constantly-connected world. But, Justin Zorn and Leigh Marz, co-authors of ‘Golden: The Power of Silence in a World of Noise’, say it's worth the effort. Shedding light on the many dimensions of silence, Justin and Leigh explore how cutting through the clutter can lead to greater clarity, structure, and improved health in our lives. You'll discover how to transcend the noise and uncover a more fulfilling life and edified mind in the process. Listen and Learn:  What compelled Justin and Leigh to write a book on silence?  Silence: what is it and why does it matter? Silence vs. mindfulness The implications of auditory and informational noise in today’s modern world  What causes us to fear silence and how can we overcome it? The role silence plays in achieving clarity, awareness, and a better sense of connection    Shared silence magnifies its impact Practicing silence in the midst of chaos The importance of identifying noise and appreciating silence   Resources:  To learn more about Justin, visit: https://justinzorn.com/ To learn more about Leigh, visit: https://leighmarz.com/ Check out Justin’s and Leigh’s book, Golden: The Power of Silence in a World of Noise Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych, including Yael’s new book, Work, Parent, Thrive!  Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more! About Justin Zorn: Justin Talbot Zorn has served as both a strategist and a meditation teacher in the US Congress. A Harvard-and-Oxford-trained specialist in the economics and psychology of human thriving, he has written for the Washington Post,The Atlantic, Harvard Business Review, Foreign Policy, and other publications. Justin is the coauthor of Golden: The Power of Silence in a World of Noise, published by HarperCollins in the US, Penguin/Random House in the UK, and globally in 11 other languages. He is cofounder of Astrea Strategies, a consultancy that bridges contemplation and action, helping leaders and teams envision and communicate solutions to complex challenges. Justin lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico, with his wife and three children. About Leigh Marz: Leigh Marz is a collaboration and leadership coach for major universities, corporations, and federal agencies as well as a longtime student of pioneering researchers and practitioners of the ritualized use of psychedelic medicines in the West. She has led training programs to promote an experimental mindset among teams at NASA and a decade-long cross-sector collaboration to reduce toxic chemicals in products, in partnership with Green Science Policy Institute, Harvard University, IKEA, Google, and Kaiser Permanente. Leigh is the coauthor of Golden: The Power of Silence in a World of Noise, published by HarperCollins in the US, Penguin/Random House in the UK, and globally in 11 other languages. She is the co-founder of Astrea Strategies. Leigh lives in Berkeley, California, with her husband and daughter. Related Episodes:  139. Neurodharma with Rick Hanson (Part 1) 140. Neurodharma with Rick Hanson (Part 2) 177. Mind-Body Practices for Stress and Overwhelm with Rebekkah LaDyne 201. Fierce Compassion with Kristin Neff 210. Strategies for Becoming Safely Embodied with Deirdre Fay 232. Grounded to Soar Into 2022 with Brad Stulberg 251. Wonder with Frank Keil Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Assertive communication is one of the most important skills when it comes to human relationships. Be it in the workplace, with family, or in friendships, it is a skill that you must learn to develop in order to communicate in ways that are respectful, clear, and effective. Without assertive communication, your goals will be difficult to meet. Joining us for this episode is Randy Paterson, Psychologist, Director of Changeways Clinic, and Author of The Assertiveness Workbook. Randy breaks down the significance of assertive communication and associated misconceptions, when assertiveness is not always the best approach, and the different communication styles you can use to confidently express your needs, wants, and opinions in your personal and professional life.  Listen and Learn:  What assertive communication skills are and why they are important  How people can benefit from practicing assertive communication skills When assertive communication isn't always the best approach  Randy’s thoughts on picking your battles  The challenges that come with assertive communication  Understanding the different communication styles and how to use them The link between control and assertive communication  Analyzing gender-related differences in communication styles The specifics of assertive communication and examples  How to structure requests for desired outcomes  The best way to give and receive feedback, both positive and negative Resources:  Learn more about Randy at his webpage: https://www.randypaterson.com/ Check out Randy’s books The Assertiveness Workbook, How to be Miserable, How to be Miserable in Your Twenties, Private Practice Made Simple, and Your Depression Map.  Read Debbie’s blog post on Assertive Communication Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych, including Yael’s new book, Work, Parent, Thrive!  Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more! About Randy Paterson: Dr. Randy Paterson is a psychologist in Vancouver, British Columbia. He is the director of Changeways Clinic; and provides training programs across Canada and internationally on evidence-based mental health practice. He is the author of several books, including: How to Be Miserable, How to Be Miserable in Your Twenties, Private Practice Made Simple, and The Assertiveness Workbook, which is now in its second edition. He offers courses for professionals and the public through his online teaching website, psychologysalon.teachable.com.  Related Episodes:  216. Managing Anger and Irritability, Featuring Russell Kolts 246. Burnout and Boundaries with Tammie Chang 252. Getting the Help You Need, with Us 255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Working parenthood is not for the faint of heart. Sometimes the stress of toggling between family and professional roles can feel like too much! And... it can also be a meaningful source of joy, inspiration, and creativity.  In this extra special episode, we talk to our very own co-host, Dr. Yael Schonbrun about her new book, Work, Parent Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much). Yael draws on psychology research as well as her own experience as a working mom of three, to offer ideas that will help even the most stressed of working parents! This book banishes the idea that the key to ultimate working parenthood is the ability to do it all. Instead, the key is to learn how these roles, together, help you thrive. Listen and Learn:  ●      How Yael’s own experience as a hard-working mother of three informed her ideas for her book.  ●      How to shift from a “work family conflict mindset” to a “work family enrichment mindset” ●      Why interruptions that feel really annoying might actually be good for you.  ●      Whether or not finding perfect work-life balance is a realistic goal (spoiler alert: it’s not) ●      The role of values in making choices about work and family  ●      How to deal with parental guilt effectively ●      How working parenthood offers opportunities for growth ●      About how cooking has offered Jill a lesson in when to grit and when to quit ●      The power of rest, and what Yael is up to on her tech-free Saturday sabbath days  Resources: ●      Get your copy of Work, Parent, Thrive!  ●      Check out Yael’s webpage and her POTC episodes!  ●      Read Yael’s New York Times article on working parenthood, and other media appearances in the Wall Street Journal, Greater Good Science Center, Behavioral Scientist, Kveller, Lilith Magazine, The Wise Brain Bulletin, Psychology Today, and Motherly.  ●      Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych. ●      Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more!  About Yael: Dr. Yael Schonbrun is a co-host of the greatest podcast of all times, Psychologists Off the Clock, and that’s all you need to know about her.  Just kidding! Yael Schonbrun, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist, assistant professor at Brown University, co-host of Psychologists Off the Clock, and mother of three. She has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of Colorado, Boulder, and completed her postgraduate training at Brown University. Yael’s academic research explores the interaction between relationship problems and mental health conditions. She has authored the book Work, Parent Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like Too Much), as well as chapters in several books and dozens of scientific articles. In her private practice, writing, and podcasting, Yael uses evidence-based science to help individuals and couples learn to manage work, parenting, and marriage in more effective and fulfilling ways. Yael’s writing on work, parenting, and relationships has appeared in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Greater Good Science Center, Behavioral Scientist, Kveller, Lilith Magazine, The Wise Brain Bulletin, Psychology Today, and Motherly. You can follow her on Twitter, where she posts about the science and practice of work and family.  Related Episodes:  -       24. Choosing Both: Straddling Meaningful Career and Parenthood with Yael Schonbrun -       33. Couples with Young Children: Relationship Challenges and Strategies with Yael Schonbrun -       83. The Tao of Work and Family Balance with Tod Perry and Carl Totton -       174. How to Work and Parent Mindfully with Lori Mihalich-Levin -       211. Subtract with Leidy Klotz -       267. You are Not a Horrible Parent with Carla Naumburg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you're trying to figure out how to navigate this whole adulthood thing, and maybe even do some personal growth along the way, we have the perfect episode for you this week! Listen in as Debbie talks with Satya Doyle Byock, Jungian psychotherapist, and author of the book Quarterlife: The Search for Self in Early Adulthood. Satya shares her ideas about the struggle to find both meaning and stability in adulthood, and offers ideas for fostering psychological growth. Listen and Learn: Hear Debbie's attempt to "nutshell" all of Jungian psychology in two minutes or less (Jungians everywhere, please forgive her!) Some of the unique aspects of the stage of quarterlife (or early adulthood, typically in the 20s and early 30s), and why Satya loves working with this age group in her clinical practice. Why quarterlife can be a time of "crisis" for some people, and how it can be viewed as an opportunity for psychological growth How the traditional markers of adulthood reflect acquisition culture. How the traditional markers of adulthood reflect acquisition culture. The tension between seeking meaning and stability, and the unique challenges faced by "meaning types" and "stability types" What Carl Jung had to say about the "serpentine path" of self-exploration Why it can be worthwhile to explore the darker, "shadow" aspects of ourselves The four pillars of psychological growth How Jungian and behavioral psychology approaches might have more in common than you realize! (And yes, non-therapist listeners, we know you might not care about this at all!) Resources: Buy the book Quarterlife: The Search for Self in Early Adulthood! Find Satya online at SatyaByock.com and follow her on Instagram @satyabyock. Check out some online salons & seminars on classical Jungian psychology and its current application at SalomeInstitute.com and on Instagram: @satyabyock. Grab your copy of all our favorite books at bookshop.org/shop/offtheclockpsych. Check out Debbie, Yael, and Jill’s websites to access their offerings, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books, and more!  About Satya Satya Doyle Byock is a psychotherapist in private practice in Portland, Oregon and the author of Quarterlife: The Search for Self in Early Adulthood (Random House, 2022). Her clinical work and writing focus on how developmental psychology attends to the first twenty years of adulthood, incorporating a depth psychological as well as social justice lens. Rather than just emphasize the search for security and stability in this stage of life, Satya has introduced a framework for an exploration of meaning as well. Satya’s clinical work, writing, and teaching are rooted in Jungian psychology, trauma-informed care, and historical research. She teaches online at The Salome Institute of Jungian Studies, which she founded and directs. You can find her at SatyaByock.com and SalomeInstitute.com and on Instagram: @satyabyock. Related Episodes 138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser 116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune 79. Thriving In Adolescence with Louise Hayes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Doing social justice work of any kind, whether it's in our homes with their families or out in the world causes us to encounter uncomfortable feelings like confusion, shame, guilt, and overwhelm. But, according to Dolly Chugh, the author of a powerful new book, A More Justice Future, it isn't a problem to have those emotions; it's more a question of what should we do with them? Join the conversation with Dolly to gain insights into our wired-in biases, our natural emotional responses to reckoning with a painful past and present, and science-backed tools to use our responses more skillfully to build a more just future.  About Dolly Chugh:  Dr. Dolly Chugh is an award-winning social psychologist at NYU Stern School of Business where she studies bounded ethicality, or what she calls the psychology of good people. In 2018, she delivered a popular TED talk, “How to Let Go of Being a Good Person and Become a Better Person.” She is the author of The Person You Mean to Be, which offered the argument that the more we believe we are already good people, the harder it is to become better people. And her new book, which we are here to discuss, is A More Justice Future. Listen and Learn: The power of learning to pronounce one another’s names The paradox of the narrative around American pioneers, like the Laura Ingalls Wilder family The value of being a lifelong “unlearner” How principles from acceptance and commitment therapy can help us reckon with the past How to unhook from the dominant cultural narratives to capture greater accuracy and more helpful nuance How studies of home team bias and group identity in sports help us understand that bias is wired into us as part of being human How Dolly understands the controversy around Critical Race Theory Different narratives around history, and what are the most useful kinds of narratives to adopt. What is a paradox mindset and how to practice having one How stories we tell about our history problematically obscure how change happens The power of a growth mindset in doing social justice work How to build more nuance into some of our cultural fables (and why we should)  The fable of Dolly's own life that she's worked to introduce nuance into Resources: Dolly’s website A More Justice Future, by Dolly Chugh The Person You Mean to Be, by Dolly Chugh Dolly’s TEDx Talk, How to Let Go of Being a Good Person and Become a Better Person  Related Episodes Episode 200: Growing Grit with Angela Duckworth Episode 234. The Power of Us with Dominic Packer Episode 256. Social Justice Parenting with Tracy Baxley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices