The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics – Details, episodes & analysis

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer explores the power of questions in project scoping with Beatrix Daros. Originally aired in 2022, this episode revisits their collaborative work from 2019, focusing on leveraging behavioral economics to enhance project outcomes. Beatrix emphasizes the importance of balancing technology with deep human connections, a principle she applied while working on Mars' KIND brand. As you listen, consider how clearly Beatrix articulates their value proposition and approach, and think about how this clarity can be applied to your own business practices.

Beatrix shares insights on the global differences in snacking habits and health perceptions, the role of ethnographic studies, and the significant impact of regulatory changes on product placement and marketing strategies. The episode also delves into the innovative use of virtual reality for consumer testing during the pandemic, highlighting how technology can expedite and enhance research processes. This episode is packed with valuable lessons on using behavioral science and technology to drive successful project outcomes.

In this episode:

• Discover the impact of asking the right questions to scope projects effectively.
• Learn about the global differences in snacking habits and health perceptions.
• Explore the use of virtual reality and technology in consumer research.
• Understand the importance of balancing technology with deep human connections.
• Gain insights into navigating regulatory changes and their impact on marketing strategies.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina introduces the episode and guest, Beatrix Daros, highlighting their collaborative work on leveraging behavioral science for project scoping.

00:06:07 - Beatrix Daros' Background
Beatrix shares her career journey at Mars and her role in consumer intelligence, focusing on the KIND brand.

00:10:40 - Global Snacking Habits
Beatrix discusses the differences in snacking habits and health perceptions across various countries, emphasizing the importance of ethnographic studies.

00:15:34 - Regulatory Challenges
Beatrix explains the impact of regulatory changes, such as the HFSS regulation in the UK, on product placement and marketing strategies.

00:20:21 - Behavioral Science and Questionstorming
Melina and Beatrix discuss the importance of using behavioral science and questionstorming to scope projects effectively and align team members.

00:24:15 - Ethnographic Studies
Beatrix elaborates on the role of ethnographic studies in understanding consumer behavior and preferences.

00:28:57 - Virtual Reality in Consumer Research
Beatrix shares how Mars leveraged virtual reality for consumer testing during the pandemic, highlighting its efficiency and effectiveness.

00:31:48 - Technology and Human Connection
Discussion on balancing the use of technology with maintaining deep human connections in consumer research.

00:35:51 - Deep Human Connection
Beatrix elaborates on KIND's focus on deep human connections and how it influences their approach to consumer engagement and product development.

00:39:22 - Future of Insights
Beatrix discusses the future of consumer insights, emphasizing the balance between technology and human connection.

00:47:30 - Conclusion
What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Connect with Beatrix:

• Beatrix on LinkedIn

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• A More Beautiful Question, by Warren Berger
• Decisions Over Decimals, by Christopher Frank, Paul Magnone and Oded Netzer
• What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You (ep 147)
• Alchemy, by Rory Sutherland
• Both/And Thinking, by Wendy Smith and Marianne Lewis

Top Recommended Next Episode: Warren Berger Interview (ep 340)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Greta Harper Interview (ep 207)
• Sarah Wilson Interview (ep 206)
• Framing (ep 296)
• Questions or Answers? (ep 4)
• The Most Important Step In Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (ep 126)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• KIND Website

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer welcomes Alex Edmans, author of May Contain Lies, to discuss the fascinating intersection of finance, behavioral economics, and misinformation. Alex, a professor of finance at London Business School with a Ph.D. from MIT, delves into the impact of emotions on the stock market, using intriguing examples from his research, including the emotional effects of international sports results on stock market behavior. 

Throughout the conversation, Alex and Melina explore the broader implications of emotional influences on decision-making in both personal finance and business contexts. They discuss the dangers of confirmation bias and black-and-white thinking, and Alex offers practical steps to overcome these biases. He also introduces his concept of the "ladder of misinference," illustrating how statements, facts, data, and evidence can be misinterpreted or misrepresented, leading to misleading conclusions.

In this episode:

• Understanding the emotional impact of sports results on the stock market.
• The broader implications of emotional influences on decision-making.
• The dangers of confirmation bias and black-and-white thinking.
• Practical steps to overcome biases and make informed decisions.
• The "ladder of misinference" and avoiding missteps in interpreting data.

00:00:00 - Introduction
Melina introduces Alex Edmans, author of May Contain Lies, and outlines the episode's focus on emotions, decision-making, and misinformation.

00:01:45 - Alex's Background
Alex shares his background in finance and behavioral economics, emphasizing his passion for conveying academic insights to a general audience.

00:06:10 - Dissertation Research
Alex discusses his dissertation on the impact of emotions, particularly sports results, on the stock market, highlighting the significant emotional effects on trading behavior.

00:12:55 - Broader Implications
Melina and Alex explore the broader implications of emotional influences on decision-making in personal finance and business, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and managing emotions.

00:19:15 - Confirmation Bias
Alex explains confirmation bias and its impact on how people respond to evidence and data, using examples from sustainable investing and other fields.

00:26:30 - Black-and-White Thinking
Alex introduces black-and-white thinking as a twin bias to confirmation bias, illustrating how extreme viewpoints can overshadow nuanced understanding.

00:34:45 - Ladder of Misinference
Alex outlines the "ladder of misinference," explaining how statements, facts, data, and evidence can be misinterpreted, leading to misleading conclusions.

00:43:10 - Practical Tips for Individuals
Alex offers practical tips for individuals to overcome biases, including imagining the opposite result to challenge confirmation bias.

00:46:00 - Conclusion
What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Connect with Alex:

• Alex on X 
• Alex on LinkedIn  
• Alex’s Website

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Foolproof, by Sander van der Linden
• May Contain Lies, by Alex Edmans
• How Minds Change, by David McRaney
• Decisions Over Decimals, by Christopher Frank, Paul Magnone and Oded Netzer
• What Your Employees Need and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer

Top Recommended Next Episode: Confirmation Bias (ep 260)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Sander van der Linden Interview (ep 337)
• Focusing Illusion (ep 330)
• Survivorship Bias (ep 400)
• Christian Madsbjerg Interview (ep 325)
• David McRaney Interview (ep 210)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• TED: What to Trust in a “Post Truth” World
• TEDx: The Pie Growing Mindset

In episode 414 of The Brainy Business podcast, host Melina Palmer delves into the intricacies of structuring complex choices, the "S" in NUDGES. This episode revisits the crucial topic of choice architecture, emphasizing how businesses can simplify decision-making processes for their customers. By understanding and effectively managing complex choices, businesses can significantly enhance customer experience and satisfaction.

This episode is packed with practical tips and examples to help businesses reduce complexity and improve customer decision-making processes. Melina encourages listeners to think creatively about their business challenges and consider how successful companies might approach similar problems.

In this episode:

• Understand the concept of mapping and its importance in choice architecture.
• Learn the five steps to effectively structure complex choices.
• Discover strategies to simplify decision-making for customers.
• Explore examples from leading companies that excel in managing complex choices.
• Gain insights on how to apply these strategies to your own business.

00:00:00 - Introduction
Melina introduces the episode's focus on structuring complex choices as part of the NUDGES series.

00:01:45 - Revisiting Mapping
Melina explains the concept of mapping and its relevance to complex choices, using examples like choosing ice cream flavors and medical treatments.

00:05:30 - The Five Steps to Understanding Mapping
Melina outlines the five essential steps to understanding and implementing mapping in choice architecture.

00:08:20 - Simplifying Complex Choices
Melina discusses the importance of eliminating unnecessary options and provides examples of how businesses can simplify complex choices for customers.

00:15:00 - Examples from Leading Companies
Melina explores how companies like Amazon, Google, Expedia, Zillow, Netflix, and others effectively manage complex choices through categorization and filtering.

00:25:00 - Practical Application for Your Business
Melina encourages listeners to think creatively about their own business challenges and consider how successful companies might approach similar problems.

00:35:00 -  Conclusion,
What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Nudge, by Richard Thaler & Cass Sunstein
• Sludge, by Cass Sunstein
• Elements of Choice, by Eric Johnson
• What Your Customer Wants and Can't Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• The Truth About Pricing, by Melina Palmer

Top Recommended Next Episode: Understanding Mapping (ep 294)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• NUDGES and Choice Architecture: Introduction (ep 35)
• Defaults: The D in NUDGES (ep 38)
• The Most Important Step In Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (ep 126)
• Eric Johnson Interview (ep 174)
• Cass Sunstein Interview (ep 371)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• Choice Architecture
• Elimination by Aspects: A Theory of Choice
• The Knotted Wood
• Coca-Cola Freestyle

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer speaks with ethnographer Dr. Felicity Heathcote-Marcz about the significance of ethnographic research in understanding customer behavior and organizational culture. Ethnography, a research methodology rooted in anthropology, has found new relevance in the business world. Felicity explains that ethnographic research involves immersing oneself in the studied context, actively interacting with people, and collecting qualitative data to gain deep insights.

The episode emphasizes ethnography's value in the transport industry, highlighting various projects that have uncovered valuable insights into future mobility trends and incident management. Felicity also addresses challenges such as time constraints and the Hawthorne Effect. Business professionals looking to make informed decisions and improve organizational culture will find this episode informative and practical, offering a comprehensive introduction to ethnographic research and its applications.

In this episode:

• Uncover the profound effects that ethnographic research has on interpreting customer behavior and shaping organizational culture.
• Tackle the burdens of integrating ethnographic research into a business context and explore practical solutions.
• Gain an understanding of the longitudinal character and direct benefits of ethnographic research.
• Deconstruct the Hawthorne effect and its significant role in any research project you might take on.
• Discover the emerging role of behavioral science and nudges in revolutionizing transportation research.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina Palmer introduces the episode and the guest, Dr. Felicity Heathcote-Marcz. She mentions that ethnography is an important method for understanding customers and lays the groundwork for the upcoming episode on observation skills with Christian Madsbjerg.

00:02:21 - What is Ethnographic Research?,
Dr. Felicity Heathcote-Marcz explains that ethnographic research originated in anthropology and involves studying cultures and local contexts to gain a deep understanding of people and their behaviors. She discusses how ethnography has evolved and how it is now used in business to gain insights into customers and organizational culture.

00:08:29 - Role of an Organizational Ethnographer,
Dr. Felicity Heathcote-Marcz describes her role as an organizational ethnographer at Atkins, an engineering and transport consultancy. She explains that she studies the culture within organizations, conducts research on future trends in the transport industry, and collects immersive data by observing and interacting with customers in their natural environments.

00:11:05 - Impact of Ethnography on Organizations,
Felicity discusses how ethnography can provide organizations with a deeper understanding of their customers and employees. She explains that ethnographers can identify opportunities for improvement, inform decision-making, and facilitate cultural change within organizations.

00:13:26 - Ethical Considerations in Ethnographic Research,
Felicity emphasizes the importance of reflexivity and self-awareness in ethnographic research.

00:16:19 - Ethnographic Methodologies in Business Contexts,
Felicity discusses the challenges of utilizing ethnographic methodologies in a business context, where time constraints often limit the depth and richness of the data collected. While some purist academic ethnographers may object to condensed time periods, Felicity suggests spending as much continuous time as possible with a specific group to establish rapport and gain valuable insights.

00:18:09 - Accompanied Drives and Ethical Considerations,
Felicity explains her approach to conducting accompanied drives, where she sits in the passenger seat with the driver and encourages them to share their thoughts and experiences. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining participant anonymity and establishing trust to overcome suspicion and encourage open communication.

00:21:28 - Nudges and Behavioral Science in Transportation,
Felicity discusses her work with local transport authorities in the UK, focusing on designing behavioral nudges to encourage residents to shift from private cars to public transport or active modes of travel. She highlights the importance of considering contextual factors, such as weather and incentives, to effectively change behavior.

00:25:10 - The Effectiveness of Nudges in Shifting Behaviors,
Felicity presents findings from a study conducted in Manchester, where text message nudges were used to encourage walking, cycling, or using public transport for commuting. The results revealed that the effectiveness of nudges varied depending on contextual factors, such as weather, and suggested that larger incentives may be needed to change behaviors in unfavorable conditions.

00:31:44 - Social Pressure and Incentives for Mask-Wearing,
The discussion focuses on the social pressure that exists regarding mask-wearing in different countries and contexts. In some places, there is a need to set up schemes to incentivize mask-wearing, while in others, people automatically conform and penalize those who don't.

00:33:05 - Importance of Ethnographic Research,
Ethnographic research is highlighted as a valuable approach to understanding differing opinions and behaviors. By taking interlocutors seriously and stepping into their worlds, researchers can gain insights into their motivations and beliefs. This approach requires being present and observing without bias or preconceived notions.

00:34:13 - Understanding Beliefs and Motivations,
Ethnographic research delves beyond surface-level behaviors and artifacts to uncover the deep-seated beliefs, cultural influences, and personal experiences that shape people's actions. By exploring these underlying factors, researchers can gain a comprehensive understanding of individuals and their perspectives.

00:36:22 - Immersion and Risk in Ethnographic Research,
To truly understand certain contexts and realities, ethnographers may need to immerse themselves in potentially risky situations. This could involve not wearing a mask in a non-mask space or accompanying individuals into dangerous environments. Immersion allows for a more accurate and complete depiction of people's experiences and challenges.

00:38:16 - Conclusion
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Engaged, by Amy Bucher
• Behavioral Science in the Wild, by Dilip Soman and Nina Mazar
• What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• Designing for Behavior Change, by Stephen Wendel
• Mixed Signals, by Uri Gneezy

Connect with Felicity: 

• Felicity on LinkedIn
• Felicity on Twitter

Top Recommended Next Episode: Hawthorne Effect (ep 117)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Questions or Answers? (ep 4)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (ep 35)
• How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) (ep 81)
• How To Set Up Your Own Experiments (ep 63)
• Colu (ep 113)
• The Littery (ep 75)
• Incentives - The “N” in Nudges (ep 272)
• Finding Confidence in Conflict, with Kwame Christian (ep 107)
• Mixed Signals with Uri Gneezy (273)
• Introducing the Behavioral Science Club, with Louise Ward (ep 118)
• Focusing Illusion (ep 89)
• Anthropology, Market Research and BE, with Priscilla McKinney (ep 196)
• Using Semiotics in Retail, with Rachel Lawes (ep 191)
• Influence Is Your Superpower, with Zoe Chance (ep 308)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think, with Vanessa Bohns (ep 197)
• How Minds Change, with David McRaney (ep 210)
• Vulnerability Loops (ep 229)

Other Important Links: 

Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, host Melina Palmer interviews Marcey Rader, author of the book Work Well, Play More. They delve into the importance of habits in achieving efficiency and work-life balance. Marcey shares her personal journey of making small, manageable changes in her life and emphasizes the need to focus on the behaviors underlying productivity. She highlights the value of breaking down goals into smaller tasks and tracking progress to stay motivated.

The conversation also covers strategies for setting boundaries, prioritizing tasks, and incorporating movement into daily routines. Whether you're a busy professional looking to enhance your productivity or seeking a better work-life balance, this episode offers actionable advice and inspiration. Don't miss the opportunity to learn from Marcey's expertise and improve your efficiency and overall well-being.

In this episode:

• Uncover the critical crossroads of health, productivity, and behavioral economics, providing an enriched understanding of personal and professional efficiency.
• Appreciate the transformational power of habits in attaining a meaningful work-life balance, preparing you for a balanced and fruitful lifestyle.
• Realize the necessity of establishing boundaries and prioritizing tasks, seeding the prevention of potential fatigue and burnout.
• Delve into the profound significance of immersing oneself in work and taking necessary breaks, instilling a refreshed sense of focus and vigor.
• Relate to Marcey Rader's personal journey, promoting an invaluable dimension of empathy and connection to her work.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina Palmer introduces Marcey Rader, an author and health, productivity, and digital wellness expert. They discuss the importance of health in powering productivity and how habits and behavior change play a significant role in achieving work-life balance.

00:05:16 - Background and Journey,
Marcey shares her journey from working in clinical research to becoming a productivity coach and speaker. She talks about how her own struggles with burnout and health issues inspired her to help others find a healthier and more efficient approach to work and life.

00:10:41 - Minimalism and Productivity,
Marcey discusses how reading the book The Power of Less by Leo Babauta sparked her interest in minimalism and productivity. She shares how adopting minimalist principles and simplifying her life helped her improve her focus, efficiency, and work-life balance.

00:13:25 - Personal Experience and Empathy,
Melina and Marcey emphasize the importance of personal experience and empathy when helping others make behavior changes. They discuss the value of relatability and understanding in guiding individuals towards healthier habits and a more productive lifestyle.

00:14:51 - Overcoming Overwhelm,
Melina and Marcey address the feeling of overwhelm that many people experience when trying to make multiple behavior changes at once. They emphasize the importance of breaking changes down into smaller, manageable steps and starting with one area at a time for sustainable progress.

00:16:40 - Making Small Changes for Personal Growth,
Marcey Rader shares her method of making personal and behavioral changes by breaking them down into smaller, manageable tasks. She shares her experience of creating a list of 100 things she wanted to change about herself and how she tracked her progress by checking off each task every day. (And, yes, acknowledges this approach may not be for everyone.)

00:19:20 - The Importance of Small Wins,
Marcey emphasizes the importance of celebrating small wins and finding quick wins to build momentum. She shares her personal journey of gradually increasing her vegetable intake and how she started with just one serving a day and gradually worked her way up to five or six servings.

00:23:17 - Work Well, Play More Book Overview,
Marcey discusses her book, Work Well, Play More, which covers topics of productivity, clutter, and health. The book is divided into twelve months, and each month focuses on a different area with novice, pro, and master levels. It can be used as a guide for making changes at your own pace and choosing your own adventure.

00:28:03 - Tackling Decluttering in Different Areas,
Marcey explains how her book caters to different levels of expertise in each area. She shares examples of decluttering tips, such as cleaning up contacts in your phone, and how she personally used the process of decluttering contacts to reconnect with people during the COVID-19 pandemic.

00:30:10 - Top Tips from the Book,
Marcey shares a top tip from each section of the book: productivity, health, and clutter.

00:34:59 - Being Flexible with Dietary Restrictions,
Marcey shares her experience of being gluten-free for digestive reasons but not wanting to restrict her diet too much. She emphasizes the importance of looking for flexibility and balance in everything, including one's dietary choices.

00:35:36 - Breaking Habits and the Two-Minute Rule,
Melina and Marcey discuss the challenge of breaking habits. Marcey shares about OHIO and Melina introduces the concept of the two-minute rule. They explain how tackling small tasks immediately can lead to a significant impact on productivity and organization.

00:37:15 - Organizing Information for the Book,
Marcey shares her process of organizing the information for her book by using sticky notes and categorizing them by topic. She explains how this method helped her create a cohesive journey for her readers.

00:42:02 - Working with Companies,
Marcey explains her approach when working with companies, which includes assessing their email behaviors, communication, time management, and meeting effectiveness. She also shares an example of implementing "design days" to promote deep focus and productivity within a company.

00:46:58 - Conclusion,
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Work Well, Play More, by Marcey Rader
• Subtract, by Leidy Klotz
• The Power of Less, by Leo Babauta
• Essentialism, by Greg McKeown
• Good Habits, Bad Habits, by Wendy Wood

Connect with Marcey: 

• Follow Marcey on LinkedIn
• Follow RaderCo on YouTube
• RaderCo website

Top Recommended Next Episode: Habits (ep 256)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Loss Aversion (ep 316)
• Good Habits, Bad Habits with Wendy Wood (ep 127)
• Framing (ep 296)
• Magic Words, with Jonah Berger (ep 301)
• Reciprocity (ep 238)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (ep 32)
• Priming (ep 252)
• Solving Modern Problems with a Stone-Age Brain (ep 237)
• Subtract, with Leidy Klotz (ep 322)
• Anchoring & Adjustment (ep 11)
• Bikeshedding (ep 99)
• How To Change, with Katy Milkman (ep 151)
• How To Set, Achieve and Exceed Brainy Goals (ep 70)
• Indistractible, with Nir Eyal (ep 290)
• Bikeshedding (ep 99)
• Planning Fallacy (ep 114)
• Get Ready for Act Two, with Kate Gigax (ep 321)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• Marcey’s Powered Path Playbook
• Health Powered Productivity podcast

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, guest Leidy Klotz shares his research on the psychology of subtraction and its importance in decision-making and problem-solving. Klotz discusses how our natural instinct is to add rather than subtract when trying to improve a situation, and he provides insights into why this is the case. He explains that humans have a desire to display competence, and adding to a situation is a visible way to demonstrate that we can deal with the world effectively. However, Klotz argues that we can also display competence through subtracting, but it may require more effort to make it noticeable.

He shares studies conducted with LEGO structures, itineraries, recipes, and computer grids, which consistently showed that people overwhelmingly choose to add rather than subtract. The episode explores concepts such as loss aversion and the IKEA effect, which contribute to our preference for adding. The conversation also touches on the concepts of minimalism and essentialism, and how subtracting can be a powerful tool for displaying competence and achieving goals effectively. Listeners will gain valuable insights into the psychological biases that hinder effective decision-making and problem-solving, and learn practical strategies to prioritize and achieve what truly matters. 

In this episode:

• Discover the pivotal role subtraction plays in effective decision-making and problem-solving.
• Learn how our instinctive preference for addition can obstruct optimal solutions.
• Grasp how to confront biases and initiate shifts towards a subtractive mindset.
• Understand the immense benefits of streamlining and eliminating needless aspects of daily life.
• Acquire empowering strategies for integrating subtraction practices into your everyday living.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina Palmer introduces the episode and its focus on the power of subtraction with Dr. Leidy Klotz. She emphasizes the importance of optimization, reduction, and efficiency in various areas of life.

00:03:20 - Dr. Leidy Klotz's Background,
Dr. Klotz shares his background in engineering and how his interest in sustainability led him to behavioral science. He highlights the overlap between engineering, architecture, and behavioral science in terms of creative application and design.

00:08:56 - Uncommon Paths to Behavioral Science,
The conversation explores the diverse backgrounds of behavioral scientists, including Dr. Klotz's experience as a professional soccer player. They discuss how different disciplines, like marketing and sports, can contribute to the field of behavioral science.

00:11:50 - Personal Backgrounds and Professional Work,
Melina and Dr. Klotz discuss how personal backgrounds, such as being an opera singer or playing basketball, can shape a person's approach to problem-solving. They highlight the value of diverse experiences in the field of behavioral science.

00:13:35 - Introduction to Subtract,
Dr. Klotz introduces his book, Subtract, and explains how it explores the concept of subtraction as a means of optimization. He discusses the relationship between design, sustainability, and the creative application of behavioral science principles.

00:15:26 - The Instinct to Add,
Leidy discusses how our first instinct when trying to improve something is to add, rather than subtract. This instinct is seen across various contexts, including LEGO structures and itineraries. The guest also mentions a study where people were given a task to make quadrants symmetrical and found that people overwhelmingly added blocks instead of removing them.

00:17:27 - Overlooking Subtraction,
The guest explains that our tendency to overlook subtraction is due to various factors such as loss aversion, the endowment effect, and the IKEA effect. The book explores these factors and delves into the biological, cultural, and economic forces that contribute to our preference for adding.

00:18:47 - Science-Informed Strategies,
Leidy discusses the latter half of the book, which focuses on utilizing science-informed strategies to get better at subtraction. By understanding the science behind our inclination to add, we can develop strategies to improve our ability to subtract. Leidy emphasizes the importance of creating a list of "stop doings" instead of solely focusing on a long list of to-dos.

00:21:06 - Minimalism and Essentialism,
Leidy notes the connection between the book's concept of subtraction and minimalism and essentialism. He and Melina highlight the value of decluttering and getting rid of excess in order to display competence. Leidy also mentions the satisfaction that comes from having a focused to-do list with achievable tasks.

00:30:08 - The Importance of Subtraction,
The conversation begins with the idea that subtraction is often overlooked in our society, and how we need to shift our mindset to value subtraction as much as addition. The guest, Leidy Klotz, mentions historical figures like Da Vinci and Lao Tzu who understood the importance of subtraction for design perfection and gaining wisdom.

00:31:01 - Subtraction as a Valuable Skill,
Klotz discusses how his book aims to help people understand the science and stories behind subtraction, and encourages readers to adapt the principles to their own lives. He emphasizes the importance of subtracting first and how it can lead to better decision-making and problem-solving.

00:32:48 - Overcoming Challenges with Subtraction,
Klotz addresses the challenges people face when considering subtraction, such as loss aversion and the fear of regret or guilt. He suggests mindset shifts, such as reframing subtraction as a positive improvement and emphasizing the benefits of subtracting. He also highlights the role of valence in perception and the value of thinking of add and subtract as complementary approaches.

00:35:53 - Add and Subtract,
Klotz discusses the misconception that add and subtract are opposites and explains how they can coexist as complementary ways to make change. He encourages people to consider both options and think about the potential gains and losses associated with each. This mindset shift can lead to more effective decision-making and problem-solving.

00:44:27 - Introduction to the Book Work Well, Play More,
Melina introduces the book Work Well, Play More by Marcey Rader, which builds upon the concepts of productivity and distraction introduced in "Indistractable." The book focuses on three areas: productivity, clutter, and health, providing a twelve-month approach to improve each area and reclaim time and mental well-being.

00:45:02 - Conclusion,
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Subtract, by Leidy Klotz
• The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, by Marie Kondo
• Essentialism, by Greg McKeown
• How to Change, by Katy Milkman
• Work Well, Play More, by Marcey Rader

Connect with Leidy: 

• Leidy on LinkedIn
• Leidy on Twitter
• Leidy’s website

Top Recommended Next Episode: Quit, with Annie Duke (ep 227)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• NUDGES and Choice Architecture (ep 35)
• Non-Obvious Thinking, with Rohit Bhargava (ep 297)
• Endowment Effect (ep 139)
• Focusing Illusion (ep 89)
• Indistractible, with Nir Eyal (ep 290)
• How To Change, with Katy Milkman (ep 151)
• The Elements of Choice, with Eric Johnson (ep 174)
• Functional Fixedness (ep 194)
• A More Beautiful Question, with Warren Berger (ep 200)
• Evolutionary Ideas, with Sam Tatam (ep 204)
• Anchoring & Adjustment (ep 11)
• Bikeshedding (ep 99)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (ep 32)
• IKEA Effect (ep 112)
• Loss Aversion (ep 316)
• Behavioral Storytelling, with David Paull (ep 289)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• Leidy at the University of Virginia

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, host Melina Palmer interviews Kate Gigax, founder of Development Corps, to discuss the transition from “Act One” to “Act Two” in one's career and life. The conversation focuses on being confident in expressing what you want and the value you bring. Kate emphasizes the importance of finding time for oneself and engaging in self-reflection. She encourages listeners to break up their schedules and find small pockets of time for rejuvenation and self-discovery.

Through personal examples, she demonstrates how taking risks and pursuing what feels out of the ordinary can lead to greater success and fulfillment. The episode challenges the misconception that transitioning to Act Two always means becoming an entrepreneur. Kate and Melina highlight that there are various paths to finding fulfillment and creating change, whether it's within existing structures or through entrepreneurship. They emphasize the need for self-worth and believing in one's capabilities beyond societal expectations. 

Listeners of this episode will gain practical advice on navigating transitions, finding personal fulfillment, and becoming confident in expressing their value. By embracing self-reflection, taking risks, and designing their own path, individuals can create a more meaningful Act Two in their careers and lives. 

In this episode:

• Discover the art of embracing Act Two in your professional and personal life for renewed achievement.
• Learn why introspection and ‘me-time’ are essential for your mental health and holistic success.
• Unearth the thrill and potential benefits of venturing into uncharted, even taboo, territories.
• Grasp the courage to voice your needs and showcase your worth confidently.
• Explore ways to find fulfillment that extend beyond starting your own business and learn why variety is important.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina Palmer welcomes Kate Gigax to The Brainy Business podcast and introduces her as a leadership coach and facilitator with expertise in organizational psychology and neuroscience.

00:03:23 - Connection to Arizona State University,
Kate discusses her connection to Arizona State University and her work with Robert Cialdini, Steve Neuberg, Doug Kenrick and Dave Lundberg-Kenrick on the Psych for Life initiative, which aims to make peer-reviewed psychological research more accessible.

00:07:42 - Psychological Contracts,
Kate explains her research on psychological contracts, which are the expectations and perceptions individuals have about their relationship with their organization. She discusses the impact of breaches in these contracts and the importance of effective communication in managing change.

00:11:25 - Managing Change and Preserving Relationships,
Kate emphasizes the role of managers and supervisors in preserving relationships and managing change effectively. She highlights the importance of open communication, empathy, and acknowledging the difficulty of the situation.

00:14:40 - Leadership Development and Coaching,
Kate discusses her work as an executive coach and her focus on helping high-achieving individuals navigate their careers and define their own success. She emphasizes the importance of mindset shifts and rewiring old thinking habits for achieving success and fulfillment.

00:16:10 - Importance of Difficult Conversations,
Melina and Kate discuss the significance of having difficult conversations in the workplace and how they contribute to building trust and maintaining a high relational psychological contract. They emphasize the need for clear communication, transparency, and addressing challenging topics in order to foster a positive work culture.

00:17:53 - Recommended Resources on Difficult Conversations,
Melina suggests listening to Kwame Christian's podcast, Negotiate Anything, and watching his Ted Talk on difficult conversations. They also mention Stephen M.R. Covey's episode on The Speed of Trust and Scott Miller's book, The Ultimate Guide to Great Mentorship, which provides valuable insights on setting boundaries.

00:19:08 - The Implicit Parts of Culture,
Kate highlights the importance of being intentional about addressing the implicit parts of organizational culture. They discuss how implicit cultural norms around conflict and boundaries can impact relationships and collaboration. They encourage leaders to be transparent and deliberate in fostering a positive work culture.

00:23:39 - Repairing Breached Contracts,
The guest advises leaders to have difficult conversations to repair breaches in the psychological contract. They emphasize the need for consistency, action, and acknowledging fault. They also discuss the importance of helping employees feel valued and recognized, as this contributes to repairing relationships and maintaining trust.

00:26:35 - The Power of Recognition and Specific Feedback,
Kate emphasizes the importance of recognizing and appreciating employees' contributions in a specific and meaningful way. She shares the SBI model and why it is one of her go-to recommendations for people to use.

00:30:18 - The Desire for Simpler Jobs,
Many people daydream about having simpler jobs that are less stressful, but in reality, these jobs may not provide the fulfillment and satisfaction they think they want. High achievers often find ways to excel in any role and end up back where they started.

00:31:34 - Act Two: Middle Career,
Act Two occurs in middle career when individuals go through a transition period. This often happens due to a breakdown, such as burnout or a wake-up call. Act Two is about designing a life based on personal wants and needs, rather than striving for success.

00:37:25 - Starting Act Two,
Starting Act Two can be overwhelming, especially for those who have been focused on others and their careers. Starting small by identifying personal wants and needs is crucial. Developing reflective practices, clarifying values, and recognizing strengths are key steps in the transition to Act Two.

00:39:37 - The Importance of Values,
Knowing one's values is essential in Act Two. Values act as guideposts for decision-making and help individuals align their actions with what truly matters to them. Values can also provide clarity when facing difficulties or making important life and career choices.

00:42:43 - Doubling Down on Strengths,
Act Two is about betting on oneself and building a career around personal values and strengths. Utility players in Act One, who try to be everything for everyone, must shift their focus to double down on their unique abilities and become

00:44:26 - The Importance of Finding Time,
Kate and Melina discuss the importance of finding time for oneself. Melina shares insights from Cassie Holmes’ book, Happier Hour, that people are happiest when the have between two and five hours of discretionary time during the day. She shares about the need to break up the 2-hour time commitment into manageable chunks.

00:46:09 - Embracing the "Wouldn't It Be Cool If" Mindset,
Kate introduces the concept of the "Wouldn't it be cool if" mindset and encourages listeners to explore their own version of what they would love to do, regardless of feasibility.

00:47:55 - Challenging Limiting Beliefs,
Act Two is about challenging the belief that certain goals are impossible and pushing beyond your comfort zone to achieve even greater success. Kate encourages listeners to design their own path instead of playing within someone else's design.

00:51:44 - Selling Your Value,
Kate emphasizes the importance of selling your ideas and passions with confidence to attract the right people and opportunities. It's about claiming your worth and showing the value you bring to the table.

00:54:09 - Conclusion,
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Finding Confidence in Conflict, by Kwame Christian
• The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey
• What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• The Ultimate Guide to Great Mentorship, by Scott Miller
• Happier Hour, by Cassie Holmes

Connect with Kate: 

• Follow Kate on LinkedIn
• Follow Kate on Instagram
• Development Corps website

Top Recommended Next Episode: Happier Hour, with Cassie Holmes (ep 257)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Framing (ep 296)
• Influence Is Your Superpower, with Zoe Chance (ep 308)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think, with Vanessa Bohns (ep 197)
• Non-Obvious Thinking, with Rohit Bhargava (ep 297)
• Habits (ep 256)
• Reciprocity (ep 238)
• Confirmation Bias (ep 260)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (ep 32)
• Vulnerability Loops (ep 229)
• How To Have Difficult Conversations at Work, with Kwame Christian (ep 107)
• Ultimate Guide to Great Mentorship, with Scott Miller (ep 307)
• The Speed of Trust, with Stephen M.R. Covey (ep 320)
• Influence, with Robert Cialdini (ep 312)
• Solving Modern Problems with a Stone-Age Brain (ep 237)

Other Important Links: 

Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter

This episode of The Brainy Business podcast features an insightful interview with Stephen M. R. Covey, author of The Speed of Trust. Covey shares his expertise on building trust through transparency and authenticity, drawing from his personal experience within Franklin Covey. He explains how trust serves as the foundation for effective relationships and collaboration within teams. Covey dives into the quantifiable value of trust, showcasing its impact on speed and cost.

He shares two compelling examples to illustrate the economic benefits of trust, including the power of referrals and Warren Buffett's surprisingly successful acquisition deal. Throughout the conversation, Covey emphasizes the need for discernment in extending trust and the importance of creating a high trust culture. The episode provides practical insights and actionable strategies for leaders and managers to nurture trust within their organizations. By listening to this episode, business leaders can gain a deeper understanding of the economic and psychological benefits of trust and learn strategies to foster trust within their teams for increased productivity and success.

In this episode:

• Realize the significant role trust plays in enhancing teamwork, productivity, and collaboration.
• Uncover the transformative power of transparency and authenticity within organizations, through the personal experiences of Stephen M. R. Covey.
• Appreciate the crucial interplay between trust and successful change management during periods of organizational transitions.
• Discover the foundational role of trust in boosting both speed and cost efficiency in business operations and its impact on economic outcomes.
• Identify the balance and discernment imperative in extending trust, a concept encapsulated as 'Smart Trust.' 

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina introduces the episode and welcomes Stephen M.R. Covey, the son of Stephen R. Covey, author of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. They discuss Stephen's family legacy and how he has built upon his father's work with a focus on trust.

00:02:18 - The Importance of Trust,
Stephen explains the concept of trust and how it impacts relationships and organizations. He shares a personal story about the Franklin Covey merger and the importance of transparency and authenticity in building trust.

00:06:11 - Trust and the Covey Legacy,
Stephen discusses how his family legacy and the reputation of his father have influenced the level of trust people have in him. He emphasizes the importance of backing up trust with skills and research.

00:08:37 - The Gift of Transparency,
Stephen shares a story about a meeting he had with the Franklin Covey employees after the merger. By being open, transparent, and addressing their concerns, he was able to build trust and create a stronger team.

00:13:13 - Calming the Elephant,
Melina relates Stephen's story to the concept of “calming the elephant,” referring to addressing the underlying concerns and fears that people have during times of change. She shares an example of how taking the time to listen to an employee's personal stress helped improve their productivity.

00:14:44 - The Economics of Trust,
Stephen discusses the economic impact of trust in organizations, and explains how his formulas for the economics of trust work.

00:15:20 - The Power of Understanding,
Understanding others increases influence and builds trust, leading to better teamwork and improved outcomes.

00:17:15 - The Economics of Trust,
Trust affects speed and cost in any relationship or environment. When trust decreases, speed decreases and cost increases. Conversely, when trust increases, speed increases and cost decreases.

00:20:33 - Examples of Trust in Action,
Trust is a vital factor in word-of-mouth referrals, where trust leads to faster and less costly acquisitions. Stephen shares an example from Warren Buffett's handshake deal, which was completed quickly and without the traditional due diligence process due to high trust.

00:25:44 - The Cost of Distrust,
Distrust leads to longer processes and higher costs, as seen in increased airport security measures and compliance rules after corporate scandals. The cost of distrust is real, while the dividends of high trust can be monetized.

00:28:22 - Balancing Trust and Caution,
It is possible to be both too trusting and too suspicious. Finding the balance of smart trust involves being aware of potential risks while also recognizing the costs of not trusting enough and stifling creativity and innovation.

00:31:05 - The Importance of Smart Trust,
Stephen Covey discusses the concept of smart trust, which involves assessing the likelihood, cost, and consequences of extending trust to someone. He emphasizes the importance of credibility and judgment in determining how much trust to give and acknowledges that blindly trusting someone who has proven to be untrustworthy is not wise.

00:32:33 - Building Trust and Overcoming Fear,
Covey explains that extending trust can lead to great outcomes and results, as most people respond well to being trusted. He encourages leaders to focus on the 95% of trustworthy individuals and not let the 5% of untrustworthy people define their approach. Covey suggests using judgment and assessing the risk before trusting someone, but also highlights the importance of not being overly cautious and missing out on possibilities.

00:36:04 - The Power of High Trust Cultures,
Covey discusses how high trust cultures can be more effective and accountable than rules-based cultures. He explains that when trust is present, people hold each other accountable and the culture itself becomes a reinforcer of trust. Covey emphasizes the need for organizations to design for the majority of trustworthy individuals rather than focusing on the few untrustworthy individuals.

00:37:29 - One More Behavior: Practicing Accountability,
Covey introduces the behavior of practicing accountability, which involves creating agreements and expectations with individuals and allowing them to take responsibility for evaluating their own performance. He believes that involving people in the accountability process can build trust and lead to greater commitment and engagement.

00:46:15 - The Power of Trust,
Trust is the most inspiring form of human motivation and brings out the best in people.

00:46:30 - Conclusion
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• The Speed of Trust, by Stephen M.R. Covey
• Friction, by Roger Dooley
• What Your Employees Need and Can’t Tell You, by Melina Palmer
• 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, by Stephen R. Covey
• Indistractable, by Nir Eyal

Connect with Stephen: 

• Speed of Trust Website
• Stephen on Twitter
• Stephen on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: Vulnerability Loops (ep 229)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• Influence Is Your Superpower, with Zoe Chance (ep 308)
• You Have More Influence Than You Think, with Vanessa Bohns (ep 197)
• Non-Obvious Thinking, with Rohit Bhargava (ep 297)
• Framing (ep 296)
• Endowment Effect (ep 139)
• Indistractible, with Nir Eyal (ep 290)
• Friction with Roger Dooley (ep 274)
• Magic Words, with Jonah Berger (ep 301)
• Social Proof (ep 87)
• Habits (ep 256)
• Reciprocity (ep 238)
• Confirmation Bias (ep 260)
• Biases Toward Others – Including Groups (ep 314) 
• Fundamental Attribution Error (ep 268)
• The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making (ep 32)
• IKEA Effect (ep 112)
• How Minds Change, with David McRaney (ep 210)

Other Important Links: 

Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, Melina Palmer interviews Andrea Learned, a climate communications strategist and host of the Living Change Podcast, on the topic of building a leadership platform and personal brand for influence. Melina and Andrea discuss the importance of being authentic and engaging on social media to attract media attention and build trust with others.

They emphasize the value of showcasing expertise and being seen doing the things you promote, as it builds credibility and inspires others to take similar actions. The conversation also highlights the power of aligning personal brand with initiatives and causes that align with one's values. Overall, the episode emphasizes the need for leaders to be visible and engaged on social media platforms to have influence and make an impact. 

In this episode:

• Unearth how to harness your influence (around climate or anything else) as a tool for personal and professional progression.
• Construct a powerful leadership platform that amplifies your influence.
• Explore the narrative magic of storytelling that can pivot climate and consumption behavior.
• Discover your genuine voice to effectively spur behavior modification.
• Amplify your climate advocacy through savvy social media engagement.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina introduces Andrea Learned, host of the Living Change podcast, and shares how they connected through a post Melina shared on LinkedIn asking for suggestions from fans for potential podcast episode topics. They discuss the importance of influence and how it can be applied to climate change and other causes.

00:03:47 - Building Climate Influence,
Andrea shares her expertise in climate influence and how she helps leaders in the clean energy, food systems, transportation, and policy sectors leverage their platforms to drive scalable climate action. She emphasizes the importance of being visible and accessible on social media to gain influence and attract media coverage.

00:08:55 - Leveraging Leader's Influence,
Andrea discusses the power of leaders in driving climate influence and how their engagement on platforms like LinkedIn can differentiate them from competitors and amplify their brand's messaging. She emphasizes the need for brands to support and empower their leaders to build their influence.

00:11:49 - Nudging Behavior Change,
Melina and Andrea explore the role of influence in behavior change and pitching ideas. They discuss the importance of making it easy for others to follow your influence and how leaders who are visible and engaged can create a path for media and other stakeholders to follow.

00:13:29 - Media Pitching and Visibility,
Melina and Andrea highlight the benefits of having a visible leader in media pitching efforts. They discuss how a leader's visibility and engagement on social media can make it easier for the media to identify the right person to pitch and provide a blueprint for their expertise and messaging.

00:15:19 - Importance of Building a Leadership Platform,
Building a leadership platform for your sector allows you to have a warmer and more interesting conversation with the media. It also gives you social capital that you can carry with you wherever you go, even beyond your current organization.

00:17:24 - Importance of Media Training and Polished Communication,
Media training and being able to communicate in good sound bites are valuable for building influence. It is important to align your personal brand with your organization's initiatives and show that you can be a polished spokesperson.

00:18:35 - Being Seen Doing the Things You Advocate For,
It is important to be seen doing the things you are advocating for. Andrea shares real-world examples of leaders and influencers riding bikes, going plant-based, or taking other actions that align with their message. These actions influence others and encourage them to follow suit.

00:24:54 - The Power of Vulnerability and Building Trust,
Being willing to be visibly vulnerable helps build trust with others. Taking the first step and showing you are on a journey, even if you are not perfect, encourages others to be braver and join in the cause.

00:26:47 - Examples of Influential Leaders,
Examples of influential leaders include Malala who advocated for girls' education and Jane Goodall who used her work with chimpanzees to raise awareness about climate change and poverty. These leaders align their personal brand with their cause and use their influence to make a difference.

00:30:51 - The Impact of Consumer Recommendations on the Planet,
Andrea discusses the importance of being aware of the impact our consumer recommendations have on the planet. She emphasizes that if we claim to care about the environment, we should consider the items we recommend or use, as they can influence others to emulate our behavior.

00:31:52 - The Power of Conversion Storytelling,
Melina and Andrea explain that conversion stories, where someone makes a significant change in their behavior, can be incredibly powerful in influencing others. Stories of personal transformation, such as transitioning from meat-eating to a plant-based diet or switching from driving a big truck to riding a bike, can have a strong impact on inspiring change.

00:33:34 - Seeing Yourself in the Story,
Melina highlights the importance of seeing oneself in a story to overcome resistance to change. By sharing relatable stories of individuals who have made similar changes, it becomes easier for others to envision themselves making similar shifts in their behavior. This can lead to increased motivation and action.

00:34:49 - Making Change Accessible,
Consider making change accessible by setting short-term challenges or goals. For example, committing to meatless Mondays for a month or riding a bike for short trips three days a week. By breaking change into manageable steps, it becomes less overwhelming and more likely to be adopted.

00:39:43 - Influencing Others through Personal Expression,
Andrea discusses the power of personal expression in influencing others. Sharing stories of personal journeys, like Mark Marin's, for example.

00:44:41 - Leveraging LinkedIn for Influence,
Melina discusses the strategy of posing things as questions on LinkedIn to invite engagement and leverage social proof. Asking questions and opening up conversations is a powerful way to pull in more people and increase influence.

00:45:11 - Walking as a Form of Leisure and Errands,
Melina shares her recent experience of going on a three-hour walk to the farmers market and running errands along the way. Walking is a preferred activity for her and her husband, and they enjoy the combination of leisure and productivity.

00:46:21 - Tips for Subtle Influence,
Be brave enough to contribute and add value, even if it's not broadcasted. Engaging in social media comments and gradually becoming comfortable with sharing ideas and opinions can lead to a bigger platform and influence in the long run.

00:47:26 - Conclusion,
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• [email protected]
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube

Learn and Support The Brainy Business:

Check out and get your copies of Melina’s Books. 

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• Neurobranding, by Peter Steidl
• Friction, by Roger Dooley
• Nudge, by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein
• Influence is Your Superpower, by Zoe Chance
• The Power of Saying No, by Vanessa Patrick

Connect with Andrea: 

• Follow Andrea on LinkedIn
• Andrea on Twitter
• Living Change podcast website

Top Recommended Next Episode: Influence Is Your Superpower, with Zoe Chance (ep 308)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• You Have More Influence Than You Think, with Vanessa Bohns (ep 197)
• Behavioral Storytelling, with David Paull (ep 289)
• Framing (ep 296)
• NUDGES and Choice Architecture (ep 35)
• Social Proof (ep 87)
• Influence, with Robert Cialdini (ep 312)
• Focusing Illusion (ep 89)
• How Minds Change, with David McRaney (ep 210)
• Corporate Social Responsibility in Saudi Arabia, with Wiam Hasanain (ep 211)
• How to Pitch Your Business (ep 177)
• Friction with Roger Dooley (ep 274)
• Magic Words, with Jonah Berger (ep 301)
• Vulnerability Loops (ep 229)

Other Important Links: 

Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter

In this episode of The Brainy Business podcast, host Melina Palmer interviews Vanessa Bohns, a social psychologist and author of You Have More Influence Than You Think. The conversation explores many concepts, including the spotlight effect, invisibility cloak illusion, the focusing illusion, and more, and how they impact the way we show up in the world. Vanessa explains that even when it feels like everyone is looking at you, people are more focused on themselves and are not constantly judging our every move. The episode also dives into the importance of dissent and expressing our opinions, highlighting that speaking up can have a significant impact on conversations.

The challenges of virtual presentations are discussed, including the absence of audience feedback. Vanessa shares techniques to keep virtual meetings engaging, such as utilizing the chat function and allowing everyone to contribute. She also reassures listeners that it's more important to focus on the overall message than getting every word perfect. The main takeaway is that individuals have more influence than they think, and being mindful of our words and actions can have a profound impact on others. This episode provides valuable insights for individuals looking to enhance their influence and navigate communication (both virtual and in-person) effectively.

• Delve into the fascinating realm of influence and perception and learn their true power in your life and business.
• Unveil the intriguing concepts of the spotlight effect and invisibility cloak illusion and explore how they could be affecting your view of yourself and others.
• Discover the significant role of audience reactions on speakers and understand the saying-is-believing effect from an all-new perspective.
• Identify the challenges of virtual presentations and learn effective techniques to engage and sustain the interest of your participants.
• Realize the extent of your influence and the imperative need to practice mindfulness in your interactions.

00:00:00 - Introduction,
Melina Palmer introduces episode 318 of The Brainy Business podcast featuring Dr. Vanessa Bohns. She mentions that this episode is a refresh of a previous conversation and explains the reason for choosing to revisit this topic because of how it ties in with this upcoming Friday’s conversation with Andrea Learned. Melina encourages listeners to consider their own influence and how they can make positive changes. 

00:02:35 - Vanessa Bohns' Background and Approach to Influence
Vanessa Bohns, an experimental social psychologist, discusses her unique approach to studying social influence, which focuses on examining the gap between our intuitions about influence and the reality of our influence. She shares a personal research experience that led her to explore this topic and highlights the importance of understanding how we perceive our own influence.

00:05:59 - The Spotlight Effect and the Invisibility Cloak Illusion
Vanessa explains the spotlight effect, which refers to our tendency to believe that others are paying more attention to our embarrassing or negative features than they actually are. She also discusses the invisibility cloak illusion, where we feel invisible to others but are actually being noticed more than we think. These concepts demonstrate that people pay attention to us as a whole, not just our insecurities.

00:09:47 - Having More Influence Than We Think
Vanessa discusses how our influence extends beyond our self-perceived flaws and insecurities. She explains Erica Boothby's research on the invisibility cloak illusion, showing that people pay attention to us and our behaviors more than we realize. This insight reveals that we have more influence over others' behavior and actions than we think.

00:14:44 - The Influence of the Audience,
Just being their–even if you don’t say anything–can shape the experience and conversation. For example, the presence of a woman in a room can shape the way others talk about an issue as people engage in audience tuning. The audience's reactions and nonverbal cues can shape the beliefs of the person speaking, leading to a change in the message being delivered now and into the future.

00:15:28 - Virtual Presentations and Feedback,
Virtual presentations can be challenging without the immediate feedback of the audience's reactions. The loss of laughter and nonverbal cues can lead to uncertainty and the need to adjust. Incorporating polls, chat questions, and breakout rooms can help maintain engagement and gather feedback.

00:21:16 - Maintaining Engagement in Virtual Meetings,
In virtual meetings, it's important to ensure that everyone remains engaged and participates. Encouraging turn-taking and giving everyone a chance to voice their thoughts can help prevent people from getting lost or feeling unheard. Breakout rooms can also be used to facilitate discussions.

00:25:38 - The Power of the Audience in a Virtual World,
In a virtual environment, the power of the audience's nonverbal communication is diminished. Those who are shy or hesitant to speak up can utilize the chat function to express their thoughts and contribute to the discussion without having to interrupt or speak aloud. Writing out thoughts in advance can also help overcome shyness and articulate ideas effectively.

00:30:05 - The Opportunity for Thoughtful Input,
It's difficult for people to speak up (and dissent) unless they care deeply about a topic. The virtual setting provides an opportunity for more thoughtful input as people can take their time to think and prepare questions in advance. The chat function allows for engagement and gives a voice to those who may have been overshadowed in in-person meetings.

00:31:59 - Engaging Through the Chat,
The chat function in virtual meetings can be advantageous as it allows participants to ask questions and contribute without the pressure of speaking up. It can also shape the way people listen and think about the discussion. The chat provides an opportunity to be seen and have an impact.

00:34:31 - The Importance of Influence,
Having influence in meetings matters because there are opportunities that can be missed. Research shows that people listen, believe, and are more likely to do things for us than we think. By holding back or doubting our influence, we may miss out on making a real impact. It's also important to be mindful of the potential negative influence we can have on others.

00:36:50 - Being Mindful of Impact,
It's crucial to focus on the impact our words and actions have on others rather than obsessing over how we are being judged. Even small comments can carry weight, especially when we are in positions of power. Being thoughtful and mindful can help prevent negative or unintended consequences.

00:38:59 - Moving Away from the Focusing Illusion,
Instead of just worrying about how other people are focusing on you, reframe and refocus to be mindful of the impact your words and actions are having on others. 

00:44:45 - "Gaining Perspective on Relationship Dynamics",
Dr. Vanessa Bohns shares a technique in which individuals write about a fight they had with their partner from a third-party perspective. This exercise helps to see the ways in which they may be contributing to the dynamic and understand their impact on others.

00:45:26 - "The Liking Gap and Accurate Perspectives",
The liking gap phenomenon suggests that people underestimate how much others like them. Third-party perspectives, such as in videos or compliments, can provide accurate insights into how others perceive and appreciate us.

00:46:42 - "The Power of Outsider Perspective",
Taking an outsider's perspective can help increase self-awareness and understanding of one's influence on a situation. This perspective can be achieved through exercises like imagining oneself as a friend. Melina relates this back to Dove's Real Beauty campaign.

00:47:53 - "The Impact of Positive Feedback",
Expressing gratitude and acknowledging the positive impact others have on us can create a ripple effect of spreading gratefulness. Compliments and feedback can have a lasting impact and should be shared more often.

00:48:24 - Conclusion,
Melina's top insights from the conversation. What stuck with you while listening to the episode? What are you going to try? Come share it with Melina on social media -- you'll find her as @thebrainybiz everywhere and as Melina Palmer on LinkedIn.

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Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• You Have More Influence Than You Think, by Vanessa Bohns
• Influence, by Robert Cialdini
• The Power of Us, by Dominic Packer and Jay Van Bavel
• Reinforcements, by Heidi Grant
• Fierce Conversations, by Susan Scott

Connect with Vanessa: 

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• How To Sell From The Stage (episode 6)
• Sense of Sight (episode 24)
• Partitioning (episode 58)
• The Power of Us with Dr. Dominic Packer (episode 304)
• Framing (ep 296)
• Herding (episode 264)
• Partitioning (ep 254)
• Social Proof (ep 87) 

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter
• Dove Real Beauty Campaign
• Devil Wears Prada Clip
• The Invisibility Cloak Illusion
• The Spotlight Effect