Food Lab Talk – Details, episodes & analysis

A food systems policy expert and social impact entrepreneur, Deb Eschmeyer has dedicated her career to the betterment of society. From co-founding the national nonprofit Food Corps, to serving as Executive Director of Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move!” initiative, and driving change in the food industry, her efforts have permanently influenced the way we think about food and health. In this episode, Deb shares her journey as a changemaker emphasizing agility and persistence, finding your “zone of genius”, and balancing perspectives and patience to achieve long-term change.

Deb Eschmeyer: “Don't take no for an answer and just keep pushing and speaking up and showing up. And it’s sometimes really uncomfortable. There's so many people who don't like public speaking. There's so many people who are brilliant and just have fabulous ideas… Speak up, show up, and develop lines of empathy. To be a better change maker is to understand all the different avenues of change it takes to get things done.”

00:00 Intro to Deb

01:44 From farmhouse to the White House: be relentless, speak up, show up

06:30 How empathy and a diverse set of experiences can help you find your “zone of genius” 

09:21 Why school nutrition reform can spark system-wide change 

13:03 Focusing on the long view and the direction of travel

15:35 Embracing collective responsibility to drive meaningful systems change

18:20 Complexity and the impending food crisis

21:01 Why trust, accountability, and collaboration are key to impactful change

25:10 Deb’s advice: embrace uncomfortable spaces, focus on your strengths, and keep pushing forward

28:25 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

• FoodCorps
• Let's Move! Initiative
• AmeriCorps
• ASU Swette Center for Sustainable Food Systems
• Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Olivia Thomas is a registered dietitian, entrepreneur, and the co-founder of “Rewire Health”, a culinary medicine platform that simplifies healthy home cooking and expands access to teaching kitchens. In this episode, Olivia shares her experiences building a culinary medicine startup, including how active listening and a multidisciplinary approach can lead to impact-focused solutions. 

Olivia Thomas: “We need to be focusing on how resources, especially within food as medicine, can be used to reinvest into disinvested communities... I have been redefining how I work on projects based on the impacts. What foods am I marketing? Who is it benefiting? How is the data being used? And the idea of sovereignty is important and making sure that it aligns with the communities we're focusing on and working with.”

00:00 Intro to Olivia

01:09 From childhood cooking to culinary medicine 

02:13 How food-based interventions help manage chronic disease

04:50 Overview of Rewire Health from pitch to startup

07:58 Cultivating a culinary medicine platform

09:49 Enabling personally relevant food choices

11:22 Investing in local communities to impact the whole food system 

12:30 Embracing change and using technology to stay ahead

14:24 Why navigating complex systems requires a multidimensional approach

17:00 The role of collaboration and community building

18:14 Using culturally affirming recipes to empower choice

20:51 Accelerating behavior change with personalization, practice, and insight

23:37 Shifting perspectives on the role of food’s impact on health

25:44 Creating sustainable habits

28:15 Redefining problem-solving

29:23 How active listening builds trust and drives impact

30:13 Looking towards the future of culinary medicine 

32:23 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

• Rewire Health
• Pursuit App
• Boston Medical Center’s Teaching Kitchen
• The Teaching Kitchen Collaborative
• Corbin Hill Food Project
• Boston Medical Center: Eat to Treat

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Janet Ranganathan is the Managing Director and Executive Vice President for Strategy, Learning and Results at World Resources Institute (WRI), a global research organization that addresses the urgent sustainability challenges related to food, forests, water, climate, energy, cities and the ocean. She leads the development and execution of WRI’s five-year strategy and oversees WRI’s Research Integrity, Managing for Results, and Data Lab teams. 

Janet Ranganathan: “One of the most important lessons I've learned is you can't do anything on your own. You have to do everything together through partnerships and collaborations. You know, if you wanna go far, take many people with you, but don't expect to get there too fast. If you wanna go fast, go alone, but don't expect to get very far. So true.”

00:25 Intro to Janet

01:21 30 years of changemaking

02:02 WRI’s method for impact: Count it. Change it. Scale it. 

03:48 Feeding people, addressing climate, protecting land

05:54 Produce, protect, reduce, restore

07:03 A production and consumption problem

07:52 Education to enable change

09:44 Empowering food companies 

12:06 Overview of the Shift Wheel 

15:32 How the Cool Food Pledge put the Shift Wheel into practice 

17:50 From outputs to outcomes to impact

20:40 How WRI connects food and climate change

21:44 Establishing collaborative partnerships for long term success

23:12 Design and act for impact

25:02 Learning from the past to inform the future

27:15 Urgency as a motivator

28:22 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• WRI Report: Creating a Sustainable Food Future
• WRI Shift Wheel Framework
• Cool Food Pledge
• WRI Greenhouse Gas Protocol
• WRI Strategic Plan 2023-27

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Michiel Bakker: “Over the course of this season, we’ve explored why we need to shift diets, the many ways of doing that, and identified some of the things that need to happen on a systems level to make these changes sustainable and inclusive.

This time of year is often one of reflection and gratitude. As I reflect on all the incredible conversations from Season 2, I must admit I am truly inspired by all the changemakers who are stepping up and getting things done. This is what it takes to make a tangible, positive impact. 

I also want to express my gratitude to you, for listening to the first year of Food Lab Talk. I truly appreciate your support of the show and its community of changemakers. Thank you.

We’ll be back in the new year with more episodes of Food Lab Talk. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for updates on our next season, which is all about enabling individuals to make informed, and personally relevant food choices.

For now, I invite you to keep pursuing your own bold vision for food systems transformation. Imagine what that would look like. Believe in yourself, because you can make a difference. And, most importantly of all, Act! I hope that you have a joyful holiday season and a bright new year.”

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Chef Ann Cooper is a celebrated author, educator, and enduring advocate for better food for all children. She has been a relentless champion of school food reform for improved child nutrition. Known as the “Renegade Lunch Lady,“ Chef Ann founded the Chef Ann Foundation in 2009, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping schools take action so that every child has daily access to fresh, healthy food.

Chef Ann Cooper: “In the beginning, I just kind of thought, I know what's right. This is what I want to do. I'm going to push, I'm going to push, and I'm going to push and yell and scream and jump up and down and people will listen. And I think maybe, you know, 25 years ago, there was a place for that, but I've come to learn that system change has to be really inclusive. It has to be collaborative. Doesn't mean I can't jump up and down and yell and scream, but I have to listen as much as I yell and I have to bring everyone to the table. And when you do that, it's maybe slower, but then this change becomes more sustainable and more people come under the umbrella.”

00:20 Intro to Chef Ann

01:14 How a digital lunch box could change the world

04:02 The role of parents, educators, farmers in school food reform

04:50 From renegade to mainstream 

06:42 Why collaboration is essential to sustainable systems change 

09:10 Pushing from the inside vs. hammering on the outside 

10:16 Future opportunities for shifting school foodservice operations

12:05 Working on a continuum to evaluate partners and focus efforts

13:55 The catalyst for change comes from within

15:04 Levers for changemaking: food, finance, facilities, human resources, marketing

17:02 Shedding light on the nuanced school food rules and regulations 

19:26 Changing behavior through ownership and education

21:14 The two things that would change everything: free school meals for all and higher reimbursement rates

22:21 What partners, policy, and patience have to do with changemaking

24:43 How to become a leader and changemaker

26:59 Reflections from founding and scaling a social impact organization

31:13 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• Chef Ann Foundation
• Food Lab Talk Episode: Stephen Ritz
• Food Corps
• USDA School Meal Standards

Keep in Touch

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Chef Joseph Yoon is an Edible Insect Ambassador, a world renowned thought leader in entomophagy, the practice of eating insects. He founded Brooklyn Bugs in 2017 to normalize edible insects through delicious, creative, and educational programming. From kitchens and classrooms to stages around the world, Chef Yoon shares the incredible potential of not only edible insects, but the burgeoning innovation in Insect Agriculture to create resilient solutions for our global food systems.

Joseph Yoon: “One of the ways is not to take it from a theoretical dogmatic approach of... ‘We have a sustainable nutrient dense food. It will solve the climate crisis. All we have to do is eat some bugs, friends.’ That would not work. And I think that that's what a lot of the scientists were actually doing. My approach was entirely from the opposite side. ‘We have this delicious, incredible food source that happens to also be sustainable, incredibly nutrient dense, and we can prepare any single dish you can possibly imagine with it.’ The only limitations with insect protein lie with our imagination.”

00:23 Intro to Joseph

01:10 Bugs and sustainable nutrition

02:13 Metamorphosis from fine dining to food justice

04:42 Exploring the wide variety of flavors and functions of edible insects

06:10 Shifting negative thoughts to acceptance and celebration

08:10 Changing our food system is like interdisciplinary calculus 

10:42 Regenerative circular nature of insect agriculture

13:18 Following the data to find scalable solutions

15:37 “Bugifying” familiar foods to connect with people

19:28 Balancing marketing, education, and regulations

23:06 Importance of regulatory frameworks, policies, and incentives

24:57 Insect agriculture to improve livelihood

26:16 Elevating the deliciousness of edible insects

29:38 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• Brooklyn Bugs
• FAO Report: Edible Insects Future Prospects for Food and Feed Security
• International Fund for Agriculture Development 

Keep in Touch

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Bernhard Kowatsch is founder and head of the Innovation Accelerator at the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP), the world's largest social impact incubator dedicated to ending hunger worldwide. The Innovation Accelerator offers 15 annual programs to the broader ecosystem on multiple social impact and sustainability issues, such as hunger, climate change, primary healthcare, gender equality, and emergency response. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Bernhard about how tech solutions  can support shifting diets, the importance of centering lived experiences in the change-making journey, and how to balance risk-taking and acute needs to fulfill a long-term vision. 

Bernhard Kowatsch: “What I would advise my younger self is to really embrace risk taking and not worry as much. There's inherent risk in so many aspects of entrepreneurial or intrapreneurial decision making. And sometimes, that may mean that you're taking risks that are really, really feeling uncomfortable. However, if you're working hard, if you're smart, if you're working with the right people, if you have the right partners, if you're looking for advice... I think there's so much impact that you can make. Just try it out. Make experiments if you don't know what the right solution is. Take one step at a time.”

00:46 Intro to Bernhard 

02:30 Overview of the WFP and Innovation Accelerator

03:59 How the WFP helps close the impact-making gap 

06:05 Co-benefits of the WFP Innovation Accelerator

08:04 Using blockchain technology in times of crisis

10:33 An open innovation approach to solve hunger

13:30 Why technology can support sustainable food systems

14:41 Balancing the tension between risk, rapid innovation and known solutions

16:54 Investing in a combination of solutions to support long-term strategy and acute needs

19:09 Ancestral Markets: preserving knowledge and heritage of food

21:17 Fenik Cool Box: extending shelf life of fresh produce

22:44 H2Grow: growing food in impossible places

25:05 Adapting known solutions through community-driven problem-solving

26:50 Do we need another accelerator? 

29:17 Embrace risk-taking and worry less 

31:18 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• WFP Innovation Accelerator 
• World Food Programme 
• Innovation Accelerator Programs
• Nilus
• Building Blocks
• Ancestral Markets
• Fenik Cool Box
• H2Grow

Keep in Touch

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Eve Turow-Paul is an author, globally-recognized thought leader, and the founder and Executive Director of Food for Climate League (FCL). FCL is a nonprofit that is on a mission to democratize sustainable eating and empower action towards climate-smart eating through campaigns, toolkits and behavioral design interventions. By facilitating a deeper understanding of how people think and make decisions, FCL creates narratives and implementation strategies that reframe climate-smart eating as enticing, accessible, and culturally-relevant. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Eve about the complex nature of behavior change, the hidden drivers influencing food choices, and the importance of listening to and learning from the community to drive lasting change. 

Eve Turow-Paul: “[There’s] this myth that most people don't care about the climate crisis. No, the vast majority of people care. That doesn't mean that it's driving their everyday decisions because we have record high rates of loneliness, stress, depression, anxiety. There are so many other immediate things that are shaping our decisions. Sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's availability, sometimes it's just comfort. You have to be able to paint people a picture of the eventual benefits. Most of the work we [at FCL] do is focusing on the ‘here and now’ including how we make [shifting behavior] something that is related to someone's own personal identity and their immediate needs and values. It's kind of like an added benefit of, oh, and by the way, it's also good for the environment.”

00:16 Intro to Eve

00:49 Understanding how stress, anxiety, & depression influence food behaviors

03:04 The impact of the market research intention-action gap

04:14 Why research is essential to bending food culture in a more sustainable direction

05:28 Co-developing narratives to build trust

07:20 Untangling the complexities of food- and environment-related narratives

09:01 Linking narratives to Self-Determination Theory and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs 

13:10 Myths and false stories hinder consumer choice and business decisions 

14:23 Freedom of choice and unifying truths in a world of polarization

18:59 How human experience influences motivation to change

20:35 The tension between instant gratification and long term ramifications 

23:06 Case study: Embracing plant-forward foods in workplace cafeterias 

27:44 Creating change by peeling layers of the “onion”

29:48 Perception and behavior: Why narrative isn’t the only tool

33:18 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• Food for Climate League
• Dorothy Shaver 
• Lisa Feldman
• Self-Determination Theory
• Toolkit: How to talk about food & climate
• Additional Resources

Keep in Touch

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Wadhwani Institute for Artificial Intelligence (Wadhwani AI) has been actively building and deploying AI solutions for underserved populations in developing countries since 2021. As a Google.org recipient, they are using AI to bring the world’s agricultural expertise to every farmer, protecting critical crops and mitigating the threat of hunger for billions of people. On this special episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Aditya Nayan and Soma Dhavala from Wadhwani AI to discuss the importance of understanding the audience and building trust when implementing novel programs, demonstrating value before scaling, and “open sourcing” innovation to open the door for other changemakers. 

Wadhwani AI: “We're always inclined to think, okay, what is the specific problem statement that you're solving, how you're solving it and all that. But we're obligated to look at the larger system and see the value. So even in the case of CottonAce, there is as much value in that farmer getting the advisory as there is that the ministry can get a sense that this is the kind of infestation that's happening in these places and I can know that in real time. That's a starting point so that a year, two years down the line, I can create a predictive system which will help me prepare better. That's something that we didn't know in 2019 when we won the Google AI Impact Challenge. We didn't know this part of it. So it's this system thinking that where innovation also has to go and how things that we do maybe on the field, how they plug back in into the larger system is very important.” - Aditya Nayan

01:11 Intro to Wadhwani AI

03:36 How AI can add value in a rural environment

05:22 Why education is critical to adoption of novel technologies

06:19 How smartphones make AI and data accessible

07:17 Proof of concept with CottonAce

09:59 Scaling CottonAce principles to more crops

10:54 Building trust in technology through community engagement

12:35 Considering reliability and safety when developing new technologies

13:12 Open sourcing and “open syncing” for datasets, models, and innovation

15:20 Data is relative - how to determine impact

17:15 Measuring direct impact vs. indirect network effects

19:47 Why systems thinking is important for problem-solving

22:07 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• AI for the Global Goals
• Wadhwani AI
• CottonAce Solution
• How Farmers Are Using AI in the Field

Keep in Touch

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

Devon is the Vice President, Food Initiative, at the Rockefeller Foundation. Devon oversees the Good Food Strategy in the United States, working to advance a more nourishing, regenerative and equitable domestic food system. In this role, she collaborates with stakeholders across the food system to increase consumption of healthy, sustainably produced foods in underserved communities. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Devon about the complexity of systems change, the importance of engaging with a variety of people and perspectives, and why nutrition education isn’t the only tool for shifting diets.

Devon Klatell: “I think we get a little lost thinking that we all can go from the same A to B when talking about shifting diets. I think nutrition education is a really important tool in shifting diets and it's not enough. So let's educate them, but let's also make sure that they can afford to buy the foods that you're recommending that they eat. Let's also make sure that those foods are available to them in a place that they can get to in their busy day. That they have the transportation to access. Let's make sure that they're culturally appropriate. Let's make sure that our policy framework supports growing and producing those foods just as much as it supports growing and producing other foods. One of the big mistakes we've made in the past around shifting diets is being overly focused on one solution.”

00:10 Intro to Devon

01:10 From late night food shows to shifting food systems

05:28 Why we need to talk about multiple food systems at different scales

07:35 Unintended consequences of food system complexities

09:19 Making opportunity universal and sustainable

11:12 How the health impacts of the food system carry a $1T price tag

14:32 Why we cannot ignore the scale of the problem

16:44 Shifting the focus of healthcare to nutrition

18:41 Personalizing the path to shift diets

21:13 Systems change as a “yes, and” exercise

22:46 Shifting diets vs shifting lifestyles

25:14 Balancing food as medicine and joy of food

27:59 Using healthcare resources to lower barriers to healthy eating

30:24 Theory of Change: How Rockefeller Foundation is making invisible problems visible

35:13 Why it's important to invite skeptics to your table

37:22 Takeaways for changemakers 

Links

• Rockefeller Foundation
• Good Food Strategy: USA
• True Cost of Food Report
• Rockefeller Food is Medicine
• Global Energy Alliance for People and Planet

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

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*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.