Deconstructing Mamas – Details, episodes & analysis

We sat down with Rev. Benjamin Cremer, writer, pastor, and creator of Into the Gray, to talk about what it looks like to hold sacred anger with open hands.

This conversation stretched from “What if I’m wrong?” to “How do we keep from passing our pain along?” We talked about retributive vs. restorative justice, how lament can heal our nervous systems, and why gentleness might just be the most radical form of resistance.

Ben reminded us that curiosity is a spiritual practice, lament is a sacred protest, and gentleness—far from weakness—is creativity at its finest.

KEY TAKEAWAYS: 

• Curiosity loosens fear. It moves us from I know you’re wrong to What if I’m wrong?
• Sacred rage has a direction. Aim your anger at harmful systems, not at the people trapped inside them.
• Lament is how we stop passing pain. Naming grief in community transforms rage into healing.
• Gentleness is courageous. It interrupts the cycle of violence and control with creativity, humor, and love.
• Correction comes after connection. Whether in parenting, faith, or community—belonging comes first.
• Tradition is living faith. Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.
• Transformation is slow work. Small acts of connection and compassion still change the world. 

WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS: 

Because so many of us are carrying a mix of grief, anger, and exhaustion—and trying to figure out what to do with it.

This conversation names that ache and gives it language. It’s an invitation to move from bitterness to belonging, from outrage to imagination.

If you’ve ever felt burned by religion but still long for the sacred, if you’re learning to parent or protest differently, or if you’re craving a spirituality wide enough to hold lament and love—this one’s for you.

In this vulnerable and deeply human conversation, Esther and Lizz open up about the long, complicated process of learning to trust their emotions — after being raised in systems that taught them not to.

They talk about what it means to rebuild emotional safety after high-control religion, where feelings were often dismissed as sinful, deceptive, or dangerous. Together, they explore how learning to honor their emotions has transformed their faith, relationships, and parenting.

This episode is both tender and raw — an honest look at the messy, holy work of coming home to yourself.

Key Themes & Takeaways

Emotions Aren’t Enemies, They’re Messengers After years of hearing “faith over feeling,” both hosts are reclaiming their emotions as sacred — not something to suppress, but something to listen to. 

Righteous Anger as a Force for Good Liz shares how anger has become a holy motivator for change — a muscle she’s still learning to use wisely and courageously.

Safety, Authenticity & the Nervous System They discuss the toll of living in constant spiritual and emotional high alert — and what happens when the body finally realizes it was never truly safe.

From Faking It to Feeling It Liz’s story of exhaustion from “faking it” in faith spaces resonates with so many listeners who’ve masked their true selves to belong.

Learning to Feel Safe With Ourselves Esther shares how her own healing journey has brought her to a surprising place: genuine safety in her own presence — no longer fearing the God who was always “watching,” but resting in love itself.

Reclaiming the “Too Much” Self Together they celebrate the parts of themselves once labeled “too emotional,” “too intense,” or “too much.” As Esther says, “I’m not someone to hide — I’m someone to honor.”

Why This Episode Matters

If you were ever told your emotions were untrustworthy, that your heart was deceitful, or that safety could only be found outside yourself — this episode will meet you right where you are.

Esther and Liz remind us that feelings are not flaws. They are sacred signals that lead us toward wholeness, self-trust, and the kind of peace that can’t be forced.

''Without women we don’t have Jesus. We don’t have Christianity. We don’t have any of it.” (Claire K. McKeever-Burgett)

Our episode this week is with Claire K. McKeever-Burgett, mom of two and author of Blessed are the Women: Naming and Reclaiming Women's Stories from the Gospels.

Our conversation is full of wisdom, both fierce and tender, and the reclamation of the divine feminine in all her forms. 

We chat through these questions:

1. Were there any particular women in the Bible whose stories deeply impacted you personally? If so, why?

2. What was the most surprising thing you learned while researching the stories of these women?

3. The Bible was written in a time and culture that was largely patriarchal. How did you navigate the cultural context while writing about these women’s stories?  

4. What do you hope is the lasting impact of your work on the way people view women in the Bible? How have you and might we incorporate that into our parenting? 

5. If you were sitting at a table with your kids and you knew for sure they would take one message with them on their life’s journey, what poem of yours would you read them?

Get ready to sob your eyes out when you hear the answer to the last question. And also get ready to have your soul healed on the spot. If you want to feel understood and empowered as a woman or if you want to understand and empower women, this is the episode for you.

You can find Claire here:

Website: www.clairemckeeverburgett.com

Instagram: @clairemckeeverburgett

'''Diligent study is precisely what got us here." Jamin Coller

Our episode this week is with Jamin Coller, dad of six, podcaster and author of Dear Evangelicals.

Our conversation is passionate, funny and so very eye-opening.

We chat through these questions:

1.  Your book, Dear Evangelicals, frames deconstruction not as rebellion, but as a painful act of integrity after "stumbling upon information we didn't want." How can parents reframe their children's deconstruction as integrity, not betrayal? How can we help both deconstructionists and their former communities reframe this process as an act of integrity rather than betrayal — especially in the context of parenting?

2.  You write “We believed it when we were told all questions were welcomed.” What impact does it have on a child’s development when questions are only welcome until they cross an invisible line? And how can parents make space for the kind of questioning that once got them scorned?

3.  You state that the first wave of shame comes from the community, but the harder wave is internal — “the shame of having shelved obvious red flags for so long.” How do we process that internal shame, and what does it look like to parent from a place of healing rather than guilt?

4.  The book describes former church members instinctively seeking new spaces to preserve their faith, even after painful exits. What does this tell us about the human longing for spiritual belonging, and how do we model that search honestly for our kids?

5.  How did diligent study get you “here”? Also, for those of us who were once taught that information was dangerous, how do we now encourage our children to stay curious and think critically without fearing where it might lead?

6.  You have said that many of us try not to think — because we fear losing our salvation — and try not to speak — because we fear losing our friends. How did this play out for you personally and how do we raise children to value honesty and connection when so many of us were taught to protect belonging at the expense of our inner truth?

7.  If you could tell your kids one thing for their life journey, what would it be and why?

We found Jamin compassionate, wise and funny. If you are wondering how you got to this place of deconstructing your faith, this is the episode for you.

You can find Jamin here:

Website: jamincoller.com

Instagram:  @dear_evangelicals and @jamincoller

'''Our job as parents is not to make other people comfortable with how we raise our kids, Our job is to make sure our kids grow up in a family where they’re comfortable being exactly who they are.'' Shelly Robinson

Our episode this week is with Rachel Pinto-Martin, founder of Self Love, Healthy Boundaries Coaching, mom of two, former Mormon and fierce Queer ally and advocate.

On this episode, we talk with Rachel about what it means to have self-love along with healthy boundaries and help our kids to do the same. We also dive deep into advocacy on this front for the Queer community.

We chat through these questions:

1.  Many of us have grown up in high control religious environments that doesn’t allow for a lot of individuality. How can we begin to foster a sense of being worthy of love when our faith or upbringing told us otherwise?

2.  What does it look like to deconstruct faith in a way that allows space for self-love and acceptance, especially for those in the LGBTQ+ community?

3.  What are some practical ways parents can create an environment where their children feel safe in their own identity and accepted for who they are, especially if the parents are still deconstructing their own beliefs around sexuality and gender identity.

4. How can parents help their children navigate the complexities of faith and identity, especially if they are trying to reconcile their own religious background

5. What advice do you have for parents who are struggling to reconcile their faith with supporting their queer child?

6.  How might we respond to members of the faith community or our family who may hold traditional or conservative views about LGBTQ+ issues?

7. For families who feel isolated in their religious communities because of their child’s identity, what would you say to them?

We found Rachel passionate and our conversation was spicy in all the best ways. We were fired up about the harm done to the Queer community by high-control religion and spoke about the best ways we can continue to change the narrative surrounding full affirmation and inclusion.

You can find Rachel here:

Website: selflovehealthyboundaries.com

Instagram: @selflovehealthyboundaries and @thankyouforranting

"Where did we ever get the notion that in order for children to behave better, they first have to feel worse?" 

Our episode this week is with Wendy Snyder, founder of Fresh Start Family, mom of two teens, podcaster and certified positive (or as she likes to call it), powerful parenting coach.

On this episode, we talk with Wendy about what it means to be an empowered parent and how can we parent out of compassionate connection and NOT fear and force.

We chat through these questions:

1.  What is your overall philosophy on parenting? Are there any core principles you always encourage parents to follow?

2. How has your faith journey shaped the way that you encourage parents in their parenting journeys? Are their old beliefs around parenting that you have let go of or that have evolved? 

3. What is one of the things that parents come to you the most about? 

4. What are the most common challenges parents come to you with? How do you help parents balance discipline with love and understanding?

5. What are some effective techniques for managing challenging behaviors? How can parents address negative behaviors while maintaining a positive relationship with their child?

We found Wendy full of surprises, wisdom, vulnerability and real passion as she shares her own journey to leaving behind parenting with fear and force and leaning into empowered, compassionate connection. She is a fierce advocate for doing parenting in a way that heals our own souls while meeting the needs of our kids. It's a must-listen if you want practical help, hope and humor in them middle of the mayhem of parenting. THIS IS A GOOD ONE!!

You can find Wendy here:

Website: freshstartfamilyonline.com

Instagram: @freshstartwendy

Facebook: Fresh Start Family

"In the end, Jesus proved that forgiveness is more powerful than punches and kicks.  And in the end, love wins over hate." - Jared Neusch and Connor Shram in their book: Jesus vs. the Bad Guys

Our episode this week is with two dads, one a corn hole champion and Biblical scholar (Dr. Jared Neusch) and the other a comedian and change-maker (Connor Shram), both authors of a new book perfect for this time of year, Jesus Vs. the Bad Guys: a Story of Love and Forgiveness.

On this episode, we talk with Jared and Connor about reconsidering the Easter story in light of active peace-making and non-violence.

We chat through these questions:

1. How do we introduce children to the person of Jesus without reinforcing the fear-based, dualistic messages many of us were taught in high-control religious environments? (We are thinking of good guys vs bad guys here) Do you believe there are good guys and bad guys?

2. Why does it feel important to you that kids have a love of Scripture? What is it about Scripture that feels valuable to you?

3. Can the stories of Jesus’ arrest, conviction, and crucifixion be shared with young children in age-appropriate ways that honor both their emotional development and spiritual curiosity?

4. Your book emphasizes Jesus’ “weapons” of forgiveness, peacemaking, nonviolence, and love—how might these values challenge the cultural parenting norms we inherited from high-control religious systems?

Jared and Connor were gentle, wise, funny and so easy to talk with. We didn't want the conversation to end. If you have the desire to reconsider Easter this year and perhaps discover new ways to engage with your kids and this very complicated story, this podcast episode is for you.

You can find Jared here:

Instagram: @jaredneusch

You can find Connor here:

Instagram: @connorshram

You don’t have to the answers to why Jesus died to talk about Easter with your kids. (Sarah Swartzendruber)

Our episode this week is with our resident Children's Pastor, childhood development expert, mom to two and Bible scholar, Sarah Swartzendruber.

On this episode, we talk with Sarah about reimagining the Easter story by diving into atonement theories and practical ways we can talk about it with our littles, middles and bigs.

We chat through these questions:

1. What's your current take on the Easter story? What do you personally believe?

2. What are the seven main atonement theories (reasons people believe Jesus died)?

3. What do we do about Easter and our kids? How can we navigate the complicated adult themes that the Easter story holds?

4. Can you share with us specific age appropriate ways we might be able to study the Easter story with our kids?

5. Are there themes or ideas that you stay away from when you’re teaching the Easter story?

6. How do we create an environment where our kids feel safe to ask hard questions and also encourage them to honor differing beliefs? 

Sarah is brilliant and funny, always a welcome guest at our podcast table. If you are struggling with how to celebrate (or NOT) Easter this year and what the heck to do with your kids and the messy, complicated themes surrounding it, this podcast episode is for you.

You can find the Sarah in these spaces:

Instagram: @parentingafterdeconstruction

Website: www.parentingafterdeconstuction.com

The worst thing we ever did is pretend God isn’t the easiest thing in this Universe available to every soul in every breath. (Chelan Harkin)

Our episode this week is with Chelan Harkin, mama to two and mystical poet extraordinaire.

On this episode, we talk with Chelan about growing up in the Baha'i faith, the courage it takes to question what you've been told all your life, how our faith can align with our soul and especially how this all fleshes out in our parenting.

We chat through these questions:

1. Your poetry invites readers to redefine traditional concepts of God and spirituality. How has your personal journey with spirituality influenced this mission, and what impact do you hope it has on your audience?

2. You once embarked on a 30-day “bad poem” experiment to break free from perfectionism. Can you talk about how that creative challenge helped you dismantle the rigid expectations imposed by high-control systems, religious or otherwise?

3. You have a poem that calls children "life’s great revolutionaries," challenging us to overturn our ingrained habits and expectations. Can you share an experience where your child’s unfiltered perspective radically shifted the way you view success and the meaning of life?

4. Your words remind us that children invite us to let go of our obsession with perfectionism and to instead embrace the beautiful mess of each moment. How has your child’s spontaneous, raw energy helped you see the sacred in everyday imperfection?

5. Rejecting a God of fear in favor of one who delights in joy—symbolized by putting extra whipped cream on things—your poem reimagines divinity as a source of wonder and playfulness. In what ways has your relationship with your child reshaped your understanding of faith and inspired you to live more joyfully?

We found Chelan to be gentle, authentic, and very in tune with her soul. We laughed a lot, talked about ice cream, and also took a deep dive into some difficult questions.

You can find Chelan here:

Instagram: @chelanharkin

Facebook: Chelan Harkin

With regard to the question, “Do you believe in God?” I do not care much about your answer. But if I were to ask the last five people with whom you’ve interacted if you were kind, about those answers I care very much. (Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer)

Our episode this week is with Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer, dad, author of the brilliant book, Highly Unorthodox Gospel, (also known as HUG), French Horn player and our very first Rabbi.

On this episode, we talk with rB (as he refers to himself) about all things related to kindness, compassion and love when it comes to our ever-evolving faith. 

We chat through these questions:

1. Tell us about the word “spiritualigiuos” on your website called “Religion Outside the Box.” We are so intrigued. Can you tell us what this means to you? How is it different from mainstream practice?

2. We love the title of your new book with the acronym HUG (not lost on us), Highly Unorthodox Gospel. What’s your gospel like and why is it highly unorthodox?

3. One of your reviews on the book said this:  “Hi rB, You had me at page fricking one!! I absolutely loved the book and couldn’t put it down. I finished it in one day. I am going to read it again and again. Loved the bacon cheese burger on matzah during Passover.” Can you just indulge us with this taste of what your book might be like for those who might be just a bit skeptical?

4. We are a parenting podcast. The themes of compassion, kindness, and love are central to the book. How can parents incorporate these values into their daily lives with their children that may be different than the way they might have grown up in high-control religion?  Why these three?

5. How do you think we can challenge the idea of "right and wrong", “black and white” , what we might deem as orthodoxy in our faiths while still raising children with values that matter?

6. In what ways can we nurture both our own spiritual growth and our children’s spiritual development in a world full of competing beliefs?

We found rB to be hilarious, genuine, knowledgable and humble. We laughed a lot and also dove deep into some difficult questions.

You can find rB here:

Websites: rabbibrian.com
rotb.org

Instagram: @rabbi_brian_af

Facebook: Rabbi Brian Zachary Mayer

Newsletter: https://rotb.org/subscribe/