BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.
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Gideon Grunfeld: Navigating Pricing, Psychology, and Strategy in Legal Practice
Episode 461
Thursday, December 26, 2024 • Duration 35:07
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gideon Grunfeld discuss:
Strategies for pricing legal services effectively
Overcoming psychological barriers to fee adjustments in legal practice
The importance of tailoring legal service models
Leveraging emotional connections and effective communication in client relationships
Key Takeaways:
Lawyers often undercharge because they fear client objections, but raising rates with new clients or incrementally testing higher fees with existing clients can result in fairer compensation.
Time is not always the best proxy for value in legal services; using flat fees or value-based pricing can align better with the real impact of a lawyer's work.
Approaching legal service delivery as a relationship rather than a transaction allows lawyers to justify higher fees by emphasizing guidance, expertise, and emotional support.
A subscription model can be a game-changer for repetitive, high-volume work, such as employment law, offering consistent engagement and client satisfaction.
"The value you're providing has very little to do with the time you're putting in. In fact, if you can make it go away really fast, the client values it even more. So, do not charge by the hour." — Gideon Grunfeld
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
About Gideon Grunfeld: Gideon Grunfeld was, for almost ten years, a large law firm business litigator and an antitrust attorney. As the president and founder of Rainmaking For Lawyers, he has since 2004 consulted with law firms and coached individual partners, of counsel, and associates to grow their book of business. In this capacity, he has helped thousands of lawyers increase their initial retainers, raise their hourly rates and flat fees, communicate their fees to clients, and increase their collections.
Russell Knight: Building and Scaling a Law Firm by Investing in Your Team
Episode 460
Monday, December 23, 2024 • Duration 28:08
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Russell Knight discuss:
Challenges and strategies in scaling a legal practice
Balancing professional and personal commitments effectively
Building and retaining talent within a growing law firm
The role of firm culture and external development in professional success
Key Takeaways:
Hiring experienced professionals, even at a higher cost, provides stability and reduces the training needs of fresh graduates who require more supervision.
Ongoing recruitment through social media and outreach ensures a steady talent pipeline, allowing potential hires to learn about the firm’s culture before joining.
Investing in external development programs, like trial advocacy courses, enhances lawyers’ skills, strengthens loyalty, and shows the firm’s commitment to their growth.
Hosting team-building events, such as farm-to-table dinners or concert outings, fosters culture, encourages cohesion, and attracts top talent.
"Stop being cheap. That dollar isn’t your dollar; it’s the firm’s dollar, and it needs to get spent on people that aren’t you." — Russell Knight
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
Tracy LaLonde: Achieving Joy in the Legal Grind: From Delegation Tips to Work-Life Boundaries
Episode 451
Thursday, November 21, 2024 • Duration 32:09
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tracy LaLonde discuss:
Dynamics of trust in professional and client relationships
Stress management and work-life balance strategies
Effective delegation and communication for legal professionals
Maintaining integrity and transparency in business
Key Takeaways:
Trust grows through intentional, proactive communication, where even small gestures like timely responses build respect, while ignoring issues can erode trust and risk client loyalty.
Finding personal joy amid work demands means setting boundaries (like leaving office on time) and developing discipline to prioritize non-work activities, even when emails and tasks pile up.
Incremental delegation—starting with small tasks and expanding—builds confidence and trust, allowing the delegator to guide quality without an "all-or-nothing" approach.
Acknowledging when personal matters affect responsiveness and communicating transparently with clients, even with a brief update, repairs trust and reassures them of quality service.
"Integrity is everything. And I define integrity as doing what you say you’re going to do when you said you were going to do it." — Tracy LaLonde
Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!
Mair Hill: Sales, Relationships, and Generational Differences
Episode 361
Thursday, January 11, 2024 • Duration 33:09
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mair Hill discuss:
Being in control of who you work with.
Teaching, learning, and selling with the younger generations.
Best ways for lawyers to learn business development.
The six senses of business development.
Key Takeaways:
If you don’t understand your younger employees, listen more. They are telling you what they need, what they want, and what they know, it is up to you to listen.
TikTok can’t teach you every lesson and the answer you want is always going to be found online, even if it isn’t the right answer.
There are multiple ways to do business development - getting outside, professional help can assist you with understanding what you need to do and how you can best to succeed.
Build the relationships, stay authentic, and keep to the cornerstones of classic selling. That is going to help you to build your business.
"The more authentic you are, the sweeter success tastes." — Mair Hill
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
Steve Fretzin: Turning the Tables on Steve Fretzin
Episode 360
Monday, January 8, 2024 • Duration 29:27
In this episode, Alay Yajnik and Steve Fretzin discuss:
Perfect practice in your business development.
Why lawyers struggle with business development.
The reason having your own book of business is more important than ever before.
Tips for starting your next year off with a bang.
Key Takeaways:
Being a great lawyer alone isn’t enough, you also need to have a great book of business to control your own future and success as a lawyer.
When sales is done in a sales-free way, it’s really about solving problems.
Start building your book of business and your network early in your career. It doesn’t need to be the first year, but by years 3-5, you will want to start building your own freedom and independence.
Get some level of competency in your skill that gives you a level of freedom and control.
"If you have your own clients and build your own book of business, you call the shots. You can write your own adventure." — Steve Fretzin
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
Charles Gillis: Hiring, Recruiting, and Retaining for a Thriving Law Firm
Episode 359
Thursday, January 4, 2024 • Duration 35:21
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Charles Gillis discuss:
Why associates are the key to profitability in a law firm.
How COVID changed the landscape of law for young lawyers.
The generational change in lawyers in the industry.
Tips for hiring and recruiting.
Key Takeaways:
Working in a remote or hybrid firm is possible, but having a connection and building relationships are key, especially for newer associates.
What you do in the first 7-8 years of your practice will lay the foundation for the rest of your career.
You do not always need to work with a recruiter to hire great talent. You just need to be plugged into your community and invest time in new lawyers and excellent law students.
If you are working with a recruiter, make sure to qualify them and build the relationship to make sure they are who you want to work with.
"You can put information out, without being too heavy-handed, about who we are and what we value. And smart candidates research the heck out of that stuff. The challenge is to live it." — Charles Gillis
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dan Warburton discuss:
Lessons learned the hard way in leadership and delegation.
Top things lawyers should delegate and are not.
How to ensure those you delegate to are not going to leave your firm.
The process and steps for delegation.
Key Takeaways:
Only when somebody feels like their future is being impacted by their actions will they take their actions seriously.
While it will take time to delegate your responsibilities effectively and appropriately, it will save time and make a difference more quickly than you realize.
It is not required to do all the client work to maintain the client relationship.
Write down your procedures. If you don’t, everything gets done slightly differently, then there is no way to track and improve it.
"Delegating can feel painful and like wading through mud at the beginning. And, in the short run, it is much easier to carry on doing it all yourself, but then you build a firm that keeps you in urgency, not working on what’s important." — Dan Warburton
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
Matt Spiegel: Legal Technology for Better Customer Experiences and a Better Law Firm
Episode 357
Thursday, December 28, 2023 • Duration 34:19
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matt Spiegel discuss:
Why you should have good customer service as a lawyer and for your law firm.
Continuing client relationships beyond the case.
How Lawmatics can help you to maintain client relationships and better run your law firm.
Processes, procedures, and automation.
Key Takeaways:
Your law firm is a service business. You need to have good customer service and a good customer experience.
Most legal business comes from referrals - if you don’t nurture client relationships and networking partners, you are leaving money on the table.
Most lawyers are using a CRM (client relationship management) in some fashion, even if you don’t call it that - even your phone is, technically, a CRM. Having a proper CRM to manage all aspects of your client relationship from meeting until the end is key.
As a lawyer, you are likely looking at revenue/billing-driven KPIs. However, there is so much more data you can extract from your numbers and information you’re tracking that can help you build a stronger firm.
"Your book of business that you’re sitting on is a goldmine. And like any goldmine, it needs to be mined. It won’t come to the surface without any effort." — Matt Spiegel
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
Scott Mason: Understanding the Myths and Narratives to Rewrite Our Lives
Episode 356
Monday, December 25, 2023 • Duration 33:02
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Mason discuss:
Separating our identities and the roles we play in life.
Why many people go to law school…often without knowing what to expect.
The relationships between ourselves, myths, and culture.
Professional freedom and moving past feeling trapped.
Key Takeaways:
What makes you happy is intimately related to who and what you are - it is directly aligned with knowing yourself.
Myths are a projection of the stories we tell ourselves about our identities.
When you understand your narrative, you can start to be the hero and begin to write the path you choose, not what others are choosing for you.
Purpose plus values will lead to your vision of what is possible. Levened with an understanding of your non-negotiables, then you will be able to create your vision and create a plan to make it happen.
"If you're smart enough to be a lawyer, you're smart enough to figure out how to survive in this world one way or another. And you'll probably do better if you're being true to yourself." — Scott Mason
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rick Watson discuss:
Building a professional network (and how to do it right).
Things lawyers are really bad at doing.
The hidden sales in your professional service firm.
Being likable and referrable.
Key Takeaways:
There is a difference between building a wide network (full of lots of people) and building a deep network, with great referral partners that can help you to bring in work regularly.
Balancing giving and taking in your network. Build up those you’re networking with and give them the hype that they deserve in your introductions.
Trust compression is the human tendency to make decisions about others based on the number of interactions, not the length of those interactions.
Be creative in keeping top of mind and in touch with people. It takes time and attention, but is worth maintaining those relationships.
"One of the things you can do to make yourself look bigger and better is to edify the people around you." — Rick Watson
Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook
About Russell Knight: Russell Knight is an experienced divorce and family law attorney with offices in Chicago and Naples. He has authored over 700 articles and contributed to legal publications, including the Illinois Institute for Continuing Legal Education. Frequently quoted by NBC News and Newsweek, Russell offers expert guidance on divorce, contracts, litigation, and equity issues. Fluent in English, French, and Spanish, he provides strategic support to clients navigating complex family law matters.
About Tracy LaLonde: Tracy LaLonde, an engaging trainer and speaker with over 30 years of experience, is dedicated to revolutionizing engagement in law firms. She offers practical, easy-to-digest guidance backed by cutting-edge research that will make a lasting impact on lawyers and business professionals. Through Joychiever’s Hierarchy of Engagement, as well as her comprehensive courses, Tracy equips law firms with tools to boost engagement, foster trust, minimize burnout, bolster financial performance, and create a culture where people thrive. With her dynamic approach, Tracy is setting a new standard for the legal industry.
About Charles Gillis: Charles Gillis is a seasoned business executive who has over thirty years of law firm management and administration experience. At Platt Richmond, Mr. Gillis oversees all strategic and operational matters for the firm, including finances, human resources, and marketing. He is the author of The Seven Year Trap: Back Office Observations of the Business of Law & the Path to Partnership. Charles received an undergraduate degree from The University of Texas at Austin, an executive MBA from The University of Texas at Dallas, and a Graduate Finance Certificate from Southern Methodist University. He holds an SHRM Senior Certified Professional (SHRMSCP) designation.
About Matt Spiegel: Matt Spiegel is a serial entrepreneur and lawyer who enjoys building products and solving problems using management and marketing automation software for attorneys. He founded MyCase and Lawmatics, the latter of which he also serves as CEO. He worked as a criminal defense attorney but has spent years focused on innovating the legal-tech space to help attorneys scale their business.
About Scott Mason: Scott Mason is the Myth Slayer, a transformational executive & leadership coach for unhappy lawyers looking to find professional freedom and live the life of their dreams. After graduating from Columbia Law School, Scott worked for over 20 years as an attorney and C-Suite executive with numerous government and nonprofit organizations before successfully growing and scaling a manufacturing company. Scott's insights have appeared in book compilations and online magazines as well as on television and podcasts, and he currently sits on the Board of the NYC chapter of the National Speakers Association.
About Rick Watson: Rick Watson is the author of “A Firm Worth Building”, which helps professional businesses scale and thrive. He identifies a common problem advice professionals all seem to share. These business owners focus more on performing their professional specialty rather than what it takes to run the business well. Many professional firms, struggle to find “good” growth. Some professionals even look to discard a percentage of their client book every few years, as a way of managing growth. Rick would say this is all backward. When you build a strong business, as the firm grows it gets easier to run, not harder.
Rick’s unique experience was forged from growing a firm with only $20 in his savings to managing ½ billion dollars in his current RIA and becoming the CEO of the National Referral Network and several other businesses which has forced him to be a student of running businesses in the best possible way. Rick’s book “A Firm Worth Building” covers about 30 lessons that every business owner should know, from thinking through branding to increasing referrals through professional networks. Additionally, he has a few unique success concepts like compressing the time it takes to build client trust and why building up your staff and other professionals through a dedicated process of “edification” is so helpful. He and his partners are forward-thinkers, their motto is - "We build what should exist". Rick and his team are not afraid of complexity, hard work, or innovation. Rick’s accomplishments have opened the path to achieving his own dreams. Living with his family on a 5-acre horse ranch and wine-making operation in Loomis, CA, he still finds the time to enjoy the life that he has been able to build through embodying his own teachings. When he's not helping manage and scale businesses, Rick rides Arabian horses in 30-100 mile races.
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