Explore every episode of the podcast BE THAT LAWYER

What does it really take to move from overworked service partner to trusted rainmaker—without feeling salesy or inauthentic? In this episode, you’ll hear a candid breakdown of career missteps, relationship-first business development, and how patience and consistency can transform a legal practice.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jason Stiehl discuss:

• Transitioning from service partner to rainmaker
• Relationship-based business development
• Honesty, trust, and cross-marketing inside a firm
• Content creation, podcasts, and visibility for lawyers
• Career mistakes, firm moves, and learning from missteps

Key Takeaways:

• Developing a real book of business starts with owning client relationships directly, not just doing great work behind the scenes.
• The most effective business development feels less like selling and more like building genuine, long-term relationships based on trust.
• Honesty about what you and your firm can and cannot do is a powerful differentiator—and sometimes means referring work elsewhere.
• Consistency in follow-up, presence, and outreach matters far more than one-off networking “sprints” or scattershot emails.
• Before making a big firm move, dig deeply into culture, capabilities, and expectations; the wrong platform can cost time, clients, and momentum.

"You have to go to different markets. You have to go to different people. You have to realize that if the audience you’re reaching is the same all the time, you're never going to grow." —  Jason Stiehl

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Jason Stiehl: Jason Stiehl is a partner in Crowell & Moring’s Chicago office, where he focuses on class action defense and trade secret protection. An experienced trial lawyer with a nationwide practice, he represents clients across industries in complex litigation, including consumer class actions, advertising disputes, and intellectual property matters. Known for immersing himself in his clients’ businesses, Jason develops strategic defenses to protect their most valuable assets, from brand reputation to proprietary technology. His work spans high-stakes domestic and cross-border disputes, and he has been recognized for his role in securing major dismissals in consumer fraud class actions.

Connect with Jason Stiehl:   

Website: https://www.crowell.com/en/professionals/jason-stiehl

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-stiehl-22a82b4/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Most lawyers treat networking like a necessary evil, but what if you approached it as a science of human relationships instead of sales? In this episode, you’ll learn how to build a small, powerful circle of trusted relationships that drive referrals, opportunities, and long-term career security.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dillon Zwick discuss:

• The Harvard study on adult development and why relationships drive happiness
• How to reframe networking from “selling” to genuine relationship building
• Finding common ground and “natural affinities” to build trust
• Prioritizing and qualifying strategic partners using likability and referability
• Using systems, Dunbar’s numbers, and cadence to maintain a high-value network

Key Takeaways:

• Long-term health, happiness, and even business success are far more correlated with the quality of your relationships than with money, status, or genetics.
• Networking works best when it is treated as a relationship-building exercise rooted in curiosity and service, not as a pitch or sales event.
• Common ground, including shared background, interests, values, or experiences, is one of the fastest and most reliable ways to create authentic connection and trust.
• Because time is limited, you need to intentionally prioritize relationships based on both how much you genuinely like someone and how capable and inclined they are to create opportunities for others.
• A simple, consistent follow-up system and a realistic understanding of how many relationships you can truly maintain, based on Dunbar’s research, can ensure you are never forgotten and rarely without work.

"Relationships don't happen just by happenstance. You have to invest in your relationships and the people around you to develop them." —  Dillon Zwick

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Dillon Zwick: Dillon has spent about 5 years in the field of corporate renewal with a background in heavy industrial design and manufacturing. Dillon’s primary team role has been finding opportunities, solving difficult problems, and figuring out whatever needs to get done. He has helped numerous client companies successfully work through the corporate restructuring process. In that capacity, he has worked closely with CEOs, CFOs, and their respective accounting staff to support cash-constrained situations, providing transparency and strategic analytical support to the restructuring process.

Dillon earned a B.S. in Biochemistry and a B.A. in History from the University of North Texas in 2011. He serves as President on the Turnaround Management Association – Central Texas chapter board, along with being a Director of the Association of Corporate Growth NextGen – Austin/San Antonio chapter board.

Connect with Dillon Zwick:

Website: https://meadowlarkadvisors.com/about/bio-dillon/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillon-zwick/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In a world where lawyers are drowning in billable hours and generic marketing, this episode breaks down how to build an authentic brand, escape time traps through delegation, and use content strategically instead of reactively. Discover how small shifts in mindset and marketing execution can unlock both growth and a better life outside the office.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nick Augustine discuss:

• The Ferris Bueller mindset and lawyer work-life balance
• Authentic branding vs. “monkey see, monkey do” legal marketing
• Choosing the right content format based on personality and strengths
• Consistency, LinkedIn, and the rise (and risk) of AI-generated content
• Outsourcing, ego, and overcoming limiting niches in law firm growth

Key Takeaways:

• Many lawyers run so fast on the billable-hour treadmill that they never stop to question whether their practice is actually supporting the life they want, rather than consuming it.
• Copying what “successful” peers appear to be doing is a trap; real differentiation comes from leaning into what genuinely makes you unique instead of being a polished imitator.
• The most effective marketing channel is the one you’ll willingly stick with—whether that’s writing, podcasting, answering Q&A, or being the “behind-the-curtain” expert with a bit of mystique.
• Consistent, thoughtful content can cut through the noise on platforms like LinkedIn, especially when it’s clearly human and not just generic AI output churned out to check a box.
• Over-niching and letting ego dictate who you serve and how can cap your growth; expanding your perspective beyond one industry, geography, or format can unlock far more opportunity.

"Outsourcing... it helps people begin to understand that they have put themselves in a limiting box where they're limited financially by time versus dollars with hourly billers." —  Nick Augustine

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Nick Augustine: Nick Augustine is the founder of Lone Star Content Marketing, where he helps law firms grow through strategic, story-driven content that attracts and converts the right clients. With a background in journalism and digital marketing, he brings a clear, conversational style to complex legal topics—making them accessible without losing their depth or authority. Nick has worked with attorneys across the U.S. to build content systems that generate consistent leads, strengthen brand positioning, and support long-term growth. He is also a frequent podcast guest and educator, sharing practical insights on content strategy, SEO, and ethical marketing for legal professionals.

Connect with Nick Augustine:  

Website: https://lonestarcontentmarketing.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickaugustinetx/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Tired of the “fight to the death” model of family law? In this episode, you’ll hear how a modern family law founder rebuilt the divorce practice playbook with intentional branding, low-conflict strategy, and a subscription model that puts families—and profitability—first.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and I'Asia Scarlett-Jones discuss:

• Origin story and career path into family law
• Mindset: opportunity in difficulty and intentional practice
• Niche branding and attracting the right family law clients
• Subscription model vs. hourly billing in divorce matters
• Delegation, systems, pricing, and common law firm mistakes

Key Takeaways:

• Viewing setbacks as lessons rather than losses creates resilience in both law practice and leadership.
• Treating a law firm like a true business—brand, systems, pricing, and niche—separates commodity lawyers from sought-after advisors.
• A low-conflict, highly strategic approach to family law can protect families from the financial and emotional cost of endless litigation.
• Subscription-based pricing, when designed thoughtfully, can improve client affordability, predictability, and trust while still being profitable.
• Undercharging, under-delegating, and delaying systems are expensive mistakes; investing early in support, structure, and proper pricing pays off.

"You have to charge what you're worth. Do not be afraid. Charge it. They will pay it." —  I'Asia Scarlett-Jones

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About I'Asia Scarlett-Jones: I’Asia “Asia” Scarlett-Jones is the Founder and Managing Attorney of ASJ Law Office, a New York City–based family law firm dedicated to guiding individuals and families through complex legal transitions. With experience in public interest work, court attorney service, and litigation, she brings both deep legal expertise and a client-centered approach rooted in empathy and clarity. Asia focuses on family law matters, including divorce, custody, mediation, and prenuptial agreements, with an emphasis on resolving disputes outside the courtroom whenever possible. An Amazon bestselling author, as well as a wife and mother, she draws from both professional and personal experience to support, inform, and empower her clients while advocating for outcomes that prioritize their well-being.

Connect with I'Asia Scarlett-Jones:  

Website: https://asjlawoffice.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Cyberattacks against law firms are exploding, and most firms are far less protected than they think. In this episode, you’ll learn how to close the biggest security gaps, modernize your tech, and treat IT as a growth engine instead of a necessary evil.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Frank Stephens discuss:

• Technical debt and outdated systems in law firms
• Cybersecurity attack vectors and real-world threats
• Cloud, backups, and the myth of “it’s secure because it’s in the cloud”
• Practical protections: MFA, training, SOCs, and remote access
• Evaluating vendors, cutting tech waste, and learning to delegate

Key Takeaways:

• Many law firms operate with significant technical debt and outdated workflows, which limit accessibility, flexibility, and security.
• A “we have a firewall and the cloud” mindset breeds dangerous false confidence; modern firms need layered protections across endpoints, email, cloud, and user behavior.
• Phishing remains the dominant entry point for breaches, making ongoing security awareness training just as critical as any software tool.
• Cloud platforms do not automatically guarantee robust backups or security, so firms must take ownership of their data retention, MFA, and backup strategies.
• Treating IT partners as strategic advisors, reviewing licenses, roadmapping upgrades, and delegating implementation, can both reduce risk and unlock significant cost savings and scalability.

"If you're don't have MFA on all your cloud solutions, you might as well just leave the doors open, and you'd be surprised at how many people don't put that in place." —  Frank Stephens

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Frank Stephens: Frank Stephens founded Computing Technology Solutions (CTS) in 2001 with the idea that small and mid-sized businesses deserve the same IT proactive support, cybersecurity, and strategies that Fortune 500 organizations receive. Before starting CTS, Frank worked at several enterprise businesses such as Abbott, AT&T, CNA Insurance, and Microsoft.

He is passionate about giving back to the community and has served on several boards, including the Salvation Army. Frank is married with three children, and his hobbies include boating, international travel, outdoor activities with his family, and coaching his sons’ teams.

Connect with Frank Stephens:

Website: https://www.onlinects.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankstephens/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

How can lawyers build genuine trust, stand out through strategic thought leadership, and future‑proof their practices with value-based fees and AI—all without burning out on marketing? Learn in this episode how you can move from winging it to working with a clear, repeatable plan for visibility, credibility, and consistent growth.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Guthrie discuss:

• Strategic planning vs. “winging it” in legal careers
• Building trust and brand through targeted thought leadership
• Consistency and content repurposing across platforms
• Flat-fee and value-based billing as trust builders
• Using AI tools for marketing, planning, and efficiency

Key Takeaways:

• Trust is the “golden thread” that should run through every interaction, from networking to content creation, and it must often be rebuilt when a lawyer shifts roles or practice areas.
• Thought leadership only works when it’s strategic—aimed at the right decision-makers, on the right platforms, with a clear message about what you do and who you help.
• Consistency in showing up, even on just one or two platforms, beats a scattered “spaghetti on the wall” approach to marketing every time.
• Moving from hourly billing to flat-fee or value-based models can dramatically increase client trust by reducing uncertainty and aligning incentives.
• AI can act as a behind‑the‑scenes collaborator for planning, branding, content, and even websites, helping lawyers amplify their expertise without compromising ethics.

"Simplicity actually is much more effective as long as what you're doing is consistent." — Susan Guthrie

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Susan Guthrie: Susan Guthrie is a nationally recognized family law attorney, mediator, and legal tech innovator with over 30 years of experience helping individuals navigate divorce and family transitions. Known as “The Divorce Coach,” she focuses on empowering clients through education, mediation, and more peaceful, cost-effective alternatives to litigation.

Susan is the host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond podcast and a leading voice in the intersection of family law and technology. She is a strong advocate for online dispute resolution and innovative legal solutions that make legal services more accessible and client-centered.

In addition to her work with clients, Susan is a speaker, trainer, and consultant, helping legal professionals modernize their practices and better serve today’s evolving needs.

Connect with Susan Guthrie:  

Website: https://susaneguthrie.com/home

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susaneguthrie

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susaneguthrie/

Twitter: https://www.x.com/susan4biz

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Want to know how top law firms scale without losing culture or trust? Steve Fretzin sits down with the founders of Omega Law Group to reveal the systems, partnerships, and strategies that turn strong teams into high-performing firms.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani, Robin Saghian, and Edwin Saghian discuss:

• Measuring performance and managing by data
• Forming and sustaining a strong law firm partnership
• Delegation of duties and staying in your lane
• Building culture, trust, and low-turnover teams
• Systems, structure, and mistakes made while scaling

Key Takeaways:

• You can’t effectively manage or grow a firm if you’re not rigorously measuring performance and outcomes.
• Shared values, trust, and low ego are the real foundations that allow partnerships to survive disagreement and big decisions.
• Delegating duties based on strengths—and then staying in your lane—unlocks scale in a way that “doing everything yourself” never can.
• A strong culture is intentional: clear expectations, honest feedback, and genuine investment in employees dramatically reduce turnover.
• Many growth bottlenecks come from hanging onto tasks too long; cutting your losses on mis-hires and outdated processes is essential.

"Our philosophy is, if you take care of the people that work with you, they'll take care of the clients." —  Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Omega Law Group:

Shahab Mossavar-Rahmani – Shahab is a founding partner at Omega Law Group, specializing in personal injury law. He brings extensive courtroom experience from his time as a deputy public defender in Orange County and has earned recognition from Super Lawyers and the National Trial Lawyers Top 100 for his litigation expertise.

Robin Saghian – Robin co-founded Omega Law Group and focuses on personal injury and employment law. Known for his strong advocacy and client-centered approach, he has built a reputation for skillful litigation and successfully representing clients in complex civil cases.

Edwin Saghian – Edwin is a founding partner at Omega Law Group, concentrating on personal injury cases, including car accidents, wrongful death, and class actions. He is recognized for his commitment to clients and hands-on courtroom experience, helping individuals secure favorable outcomes in challenging litigation.

Connect with Omega Law Group: 

Website: https://www.omegalaw.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sarah Tetlow discuss:

• Designing a legal career around fulfillment, not just ambition
• Managing time, attention, and workload with intentional systems
• Reframing legal work through project management thinking
• Reducing overwhelm by structuring email, tasks, and daily routines

Key Takeaways:

• Success without alignment leads to quiet dissatisfaction. Steve shares how chasing scale made him miserable, while simplifying his practice brought clarity and joy. Sarah echoes this by leaving a “fine” but unfulfilling role to build something more meaningful.
• Lawyers must think like project managers, not reactive order-takers. There will always be more work than fits in a day, so the goal is intentional prioritization. Taking a high-level view helps you focus on what truly matters now and plan ahead.
• Most emergencies are not real; they’re the result of poor systems and expectations. Defining true urgency, setting communication boundaries, and using your team to filter interruptions allows you to stay focused on high-value work.
• Strong systems create clarity and control, especially with email and tasks. Treat your inbox as triage, track commitments outside your calendar, and use a simple shutdown routine to prioritize tomorrow. Small habits like this reduce stress and improve consistency.

"Without a system, your inbox becomes a distraction instead of a tool." —  Sarah Tetlow

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Big news for ambitious attorneys: on April 15, we’re launching a new resource to help you be confident, organized, and a skilled Rainmaker. This is the tool I use to help my clients grow every year—don’t miss it, you’ll want to check it out as soon as it’s live.

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Sarah Tetlow: Sarah Tetlow is a productivity consultant, trainer, and speaker who helps attorneys and busy professionals improve efficiency, reduce stress, and increase focus and revenue. Drawing from her background in law firms, she provides personalized strategies through consulting, workshops, and training that help clients manage their time with a proactive, structured approach. She is also the creator of the ARTT® Email Productivity system, which has helped hundreds of professionals take control of their inbox, reduce distractions, and build better communication habits that lead to stronger responsiveness and results.

Connect with Sarah Tetlow:  

Website: https://www.firm-focus.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/firm-focus-llc/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Firm-Focus-2133715496717831/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Reid Zeising discuss:

• Letting experts elevate your business
• Streamlining operations to unlock scale
• Embracing AI as a force multiplier
• Releasing control and focusing on what matters most

Key Takeaways:

• You don’t need to master every discipline to build something great. Real growth comes from casting vision, staying close to the customer, and surrounding yourself with people who are truly exceptional in their craft.
• Efficiency is built through intentional systems like consolidating updates, centralizing records, leveraging provider networks, and simplifying lien resolution. These practical shifts remove bottlenecks and free up significant time for your team.
• AI is not a replacement for lawyers but a tool that removes redundancy and enhances decision-making. Those who integrate it into their workflows gain speed, insight, and a clear advantage over those who resist it.
• The biggest barrier to scaling is often the inability to let go. Defining your highest-value roles and delegating the rest allows you to operate where you are most impactful while others execute at a higher level.

"AI is not going to replace humans. AI is just replacing humans unwilling to utilize AI." —  Reid Zeising

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Big news for ambitious attorneys: on April 15, we’re launching a new resource to help you be confident, organized, and a skilled Rainmaker. This is the tool I use to help my clients grow every year—don’t miss it, you’ll want to check it out as soon as it’s live.

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Reid Zeising: Reid Zeising is the Founder and CEO of Gain Servicing, where he helps plaintiff personal injury law firms improve efficiency and outcomes through streamlined revenue cycle management and operational strategy. With a background in finance and investment banking, he brings a data-driven perspective to scaling businesses, specializing in areas such as lien resolution, medical record consolidation, and workflow optimization. Reid is known for his emphasis on delegation, hiring top-tier talent, and focusing leadership on high-value activities like strategy and client relationships. He is also an advocate for the practical use of AI in legal operations, viewing it as a tool to eliminate bottlenecks while preserving the essential role of human judgment and trust in legal representation.

Connect with Reid Zeising: 

Website: https://gainservicing.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Danny Decker discuss:

• Putting the client at the center
• Building your brand around real client needs
• Turning client questions into content
• Taking action and refining along the way

Key Takeaways:

• Strong legal marketing shifts the spotlight away from the lawyer and toward the client’s problems, emotions, and desired outcomes. Messaging that builds trust acknowledges what clients are going through and offers a clear, supportive path forward.
• Credentials and accolades matter less than demonstrating empathy and relevance. The most effective personal brands show clients that you understand their situation and can guide them from uncertainty to resolution.
• The questions asked in consultations are the same ones potential clients are searching online and through AI. Transforming these into blogs, videos, and posts builds visibility, authority, and trust over time.
• Progress in marketing comes from execution, not perfection. Moving quickly, learning from mistakes, and adjusting direction creates far more momentum than waiting for the perfect strategy.

"Your customers should be the hero of your marketing." —  Danny Decker

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Danny Decker: Danny Decker is Partner & Cofounder of Spotlight Marketing & Branding. In addition to building his team, he frequently speaks at events and workshops and hosts multiple podcasts on business and marketing. His books, The Automatic Marketing Machine and Marketing Simplified, are available on Amazon. Danny lives in Huntersville, North Carolina, with his wife & their two kids.

Connect with Danny Decker:  

Website: https://spotlightbranding.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danieljdecker/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian LaCien discuss:

• Building systems that create consistency
• Growing your practice through relationships
• Learning through mentorship and mistakes
• Knowing when to push and when to stop

Key Takeaways:

• Every case is different, but your process should not be. Strong systems like checklists and workflows help you stay organized and reliable, especially in long and complex litigation.
• The best cases come from trust, not volume marketing. Building genuine relationships and staying visible in the legal community drives consistent referrals and long-term growth.
• Becoming a great trial lawyer requires experience, guidance, and room to fail. The right mentors and real courtroom reps shape your skill far more than theory alone.
• One extra question can hurt your case. Great lawyers understand timing, knowing when they’ve made their point and having the discipline to stop.

"Every case is different, but how you approach it should be really similar, so that you may not remember doing something six months ago, but you know you did it because that's the way you do things." —  Brian LaCien

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Brian LaCien: Brian LaCien is a trial lawyer and co-founder of Smith LaCien LLP, where he represents individuals in complex personal injury and wrongful death cases. With nearly two decades of experience, he has built a reputation for handling high-stakes litigation with a disciplined, detail-oriented approach rooted in strong case strategy and preparation.

Before co-founding his firm, Brian spent 17 years at a leading plaintiff trial firm, where he developed his skills under experienced litigators and gained extensive courtroom and deposition experience. He is committed to the civil justice system as a way to hold powerful institutions accountable and advocates for his clients with both precision and persistence.

Connect with Brian LaCien:  

Website: https://www.smithlacien.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Megan Hargroder discuss:

• Building trust over chasing tactics
• Positioning with clarity and specificity
• Showing authenticity to attract the right clients
• Using story and proof to strengthen credibility

Key Takeaways:

• Modern marketing is shifting away from quick SEO tricks toward real human engagement. When people genuinely connect with your content and stay on your site, it signals trust. That trust is what drives visibility and long-term growth.
• Trying to speak to everyone weakens your authority. Focusing on a clear niche helps people understand what you do and see you as the go-to expert. Repeating one core message consistently builds recognition and trust.
• Relatable language, personality, and even humor make you memorable. The goal is not to impress peers but to connect with people. When you show who you really are, you naturally draw in the right clients and filter out the wrong ones.
• Your bio and reviews are powerful trust builders when done right. Sharing why you do what you do and highlighting specific results helps people see themselves in your story. Detailed proof builds confidence far more than generic praise.

"You want to be turning the right people on, and you want to be turning the wrong people off at all times." —  Megan Hargroder

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Megan Hargroder: Megan Hargroder is a legal marketing strategist and entrepreneur known for helping law firms grow through authentic, relationship-driven marketing. As the founder of Legends Legal Marketing, she specializes in building systems that connect attorneys with referral partners and drive consistent business development.

With a background in both marketing and operations, Megan brings a practical, results-focused approach to scaling professional services. She is passionate about mentorship, community building, and helping lawyers create sustainable growth by aligning strategy, systems, and personal strengths.

Connect with Megan Hargroder: 

Website:  https://heyitsmegan.com/ , https://legendslegalmarketing.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heyitsmegan/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Armando Leduc discuss:

• Building authority through podcasting
• Overcoming mindset barriers
• Leveraging content strategically
• Maintaining consistency for compounding impact

Key Takeaways:

• Hosting a weekly podcast allows lawyers to create a systematic referral network, strengthen relationships with industry partners, and position themselves as trusted authorities over time.
• Addressing fear, self-doubt, and perceived market saturation helps attorneys gain confidence on camera and embrace personal branding as a growth tool.
• Repurposing podcast recordings into articles, social posts, and even books multiplies visibility and ensures each interview provides long-term business development value.
• Persistently producing niche-focused content over months and years compounds authority, relationships, and opportunities, turning podcasting into a long-term growth engine.

"If you're an estate planning attorney, start a podcast... but number two, bring in financial advisors and family lawyers and wealth advisors and CPAs and people that are in the space that can refer you business." —  Armando Leduc 

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Armando Leduc:

Armando Leduc is the CEO of Leduc Entertainment, a social media management company.

Armando is a multifaceted and driven artist who has carved a niche for himself in the entertainment sector through determination, hard work, and an innate gift for storytelling.

With a growing list of achievements and a steadfast commitment to his craft, Armando continually strives for excellence, leaving audiences eagerly anticipating his next creative endeavor.

Connect with Armando Leduc:  

Website: https://www.leducentertainment.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/leducentertainment

Twitter: https://twitter.com/armandoleduc

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leducentertainment/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0BozS4ZM-1TqOcwSl2l0Q

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/armando-leduc-16ba4940

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian Hansen discuss:

• Planning before marketing
• Specializing in impact
• Prioritizing practical channels
• Using AI and content wisely

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers should focus on strategy, clear goals, and growth plans before jumping into ads or SEO. Thinking like a business owner prevents reactive, scattered efforts.
• Narrowing focus to niches ensures higher-quality results and avoids mediocrity. Saying no to misaligned work preserves reputation and effectiveness.
• Local Service Ads, SEO fundamentals, Maps visibility, and strong reviews drive results. Smaller firms may rely more on networking, referrals, and credibility than on heavy SEO spend.
• AI accelerates work, but expertise remains critical. Authentic, experience-based content on platforms clients actually use delivers lasting value.

"We only want to do what we're really good at… don’t do anything that you're going to do with a C plus or a B minus." —  Brian Hansen

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Brian Hansen: Brian Hansen is the founder and CEO of Rocket Pilots, a San Diego-based digital marketing agency specializing in helping law firms grow through targeted SEO, Local Service Ads, and paid media strategies. Since launching the agency in 2016, Brian has focused on delivering measurable results, ethical practices, and client-centered strategies that prioritize real business outcomes over vanity metrics. With expertise in niche marketing, strategy-driven campaigns, and consultative client relationships, he helps law firms navigate competitive markets and achieve sustainable growth while sharing insights on legal marketing and technology trends with the professional community.

Connect with Brian Hansen:  

Website: https://rocketpilots.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianghansen/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Owili Eison discuss:

• Thinking like an intrapreneur, not just an employee
• Balancing legal skill with business development
• Networking intentionally to build referral pipelines
• Using technology and AI to stay competitive

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers who rely entirely on their firm for work risk having little control over their future. Building a personal brand, developing referral relationships, and generating your own clients creates long-term career security and flexibility.
• A successful legal career has two sides: practicing the law and building the firm. Lawyers who focus only on technical legal work often miss the larger opportunity, since referral relationships and originations frequently generate the greatest long-term value.
• Effective networking is targeted, not random. By focusing on lawyers in complementary practice areas and building genuine, reciprocal relationships, attorneys can create steady referral partnerships that grow over time.
• Modern legal practice increasingly relies on tools that improve efficiency and insight. Lawyers who adopt technologies like AI for document review, intake summaries, and research can work faster, scale their impact, and stay ahead in a rapidly changing profession.

"There’s two aspects to our business and the law operation. There’s the law and the firm… You need to focus on both and have a holistic approach to the business and practice of law, otherwise I think you’re going to find yourself in a tough position.” —  Owili Eison

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Owili Eison: Owili K. Eison is a Los Angeles-based personal injury attorney and Partner at BD&J, where he focuses on catastrophic injury litigation. He also supervises a team of 20 associates and staff, helping train the next generation of trial lawyers to advocate for those harmed by negligence.

A graduate of the University of Southern California and Loyola Law School, Los Angeles, Owili participated in Loyola’s Trial Advocacy Program and later completed both the CAALA Plaintiff’s Trial Academy and the Jack Daniels ABOTA Trial Academy.

Owili was inspired to pursue personal injury law after suffering serious injuries when he was struck by a negligent driver in a crosswalk. Since then, he has handled thousands of cases involving automobile accidents, wrongful death, premises liability, and medical malpractice. In just over nine years at BD&J, he has recovered more than $500 million for his clients and built a reputation as a tenacious yet pragmatic advocate.

Connect with Owili Eison:  

Website: https://www.bdj.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owilieison

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Young discuss:

• Building trust through consistent visibility
• Growing through relationships, referrals, and the right fit
• Aligning marketing and intake to convert the right clients
• Using time and resources more strategically

Key Takeaways:

• Consistent marketing builds recognition and credibility over time. Because legal services are intangible and high-stakes, potential clients rely less on impulse and more on trust, familiarity, and a sense that the lawyer understands their needs.
• Many successful firms grow through community presence and strong referral networks rather than pure advertising. The most sustainable practices are built around clients, partners, and team members who are the right cultural and professional fit.
• Marketing should nurture and educate prospects before they ever contact the firm. Intake then acts as a strategic filter, qualifying leads and converting the right, profitable matters rather than simply accepting every potential case.
• Lawyers should focus on legal expertise and relationship-building rather than trying to execute every marketing task themselves. Delegating content production, intake, and administrative work allows firms to maintain consistent marketing while using time and budget more effectively.

"Marketing should be teeing up, not cold leads, but nurtured leads for the sales team." —  Colleen Young

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Colleen Young: Colleen Young is the Chief Marketing Officer at Get Staffed Up, where she helps law firms grow through smarter marketing, stronger intake systems, and strategic delegation. With more than 25 years of experience across professional services and B2B industries, she specializes in helping attorneys turn marketing into real client relationships by focusing on trust, community presence, and well-nurtured leads. At Get Staffed Up, Colleen also advocates for using virtual assistants and remote teams so lawyers can spend less time on administrative work and more time practicing law and building meaningful client connections.

Connect with Colleen Young:  

Website: https://getstaffedup.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-young-marketing/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Hartmann discuss:

• Taking ownership of the business of law
• Building rainmaking skills through empathy and responsiveness
• Preparing for independence before you need it
• Networking strategically, not randomly

Key Takeaways:

• Law school prepares lawyers for doctrine, not for marketing, leadership, or running a practice. Lawyers must take responsibility for learning how to generate work and build a book of business. The safest career path is being able to stand on your own if circumstances change.
• Empathy, honesty, and fast communication are powerful differentiators in a crowded market. Treating clients and referral sources with care strengthens reputation and repeat business. Soft skills practiced early, especially as an associate, lay the foundation for becoming a future Rainmaker.
• Every lawyer should be financially and operationally ready to go solo if necessary. That includes savings, strong professional relationships, and clarity around overhead and support systems. Leaving firms well and preserving bridges can turn former employers into future referral sources.
• Effective networking focuses on finding a small group of true strategic partners, not collecting business cards. Let others speak first, listen well, and align your value to their needs. Consistent systems and intentional follow-through turn relationships into long-term referral engines.

"Everybody has the ability with a few simple soft skills to become a good Rainmaker." —  Robert Hartmann

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Robert Hartmann: Robert Hartmann is the founder of Hartmann Law Firm and an advocate for helping attorneys develop the soft skills needed to build successful legal careers. With years of experience practicing law and running a boutique firm, Robert emphasizes the importance of networking, relationship-building, and business development, skills often overlooked in traditional legal education. Through his work, he encourages lawyers to take ownership of their careers by building their own books of business and cultivating meaningful professional relationships. Robert is also the author of the upcoming book Making It Rain, which provides practical guidance and checklists for attorneys who want to become effective rainmakers and prepare for starting their own practice. Passionate about mentorship and professional growth, Robert regularly shares insights on networking, empathy in client relationships, and strategic career planning for lawyers.

Connect with Robert Hartmann:  

Website: https://www.hartmannlawfirm.net/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-hartmann-565a5919/

Email: bob@hartmannlawfirm.net

Phone: 714-381-1366

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Leah Miller discuss:

• Run your law firm like a business, not a hobby
• Use accurate financials to avoid hidden risks and overpayment
• Track key metrics and benchmarks for people, operations, and marketing
• Leverage metrics to make strategic growth decisions

Key Takeaways:

• Long-term growth requires regular attention to financials. Cash in the bank is not a strategy; data should guide hiring, marketing, and operational decisions.
• Bad bookkeeping masks problems and can cost in taxes. Early investment in a bookkeeper or financial team yields high ROI and clarity.
• Monitor payroll, operating costs, and marketing spend as percentages of revenue. Focus on trends over time and adapt to what works for your firm.
• Financial data informs hiring, marketing, and process improvements. Treat new hires as investments, plan for cash gaps, and track time spent on business development for accountability.

"If you're not paying attention to the dollars and you're not operational decisions based on the finances, you are not going to have that long-term, sustained growth that you're looking for as a lawyer in a firm." —  Leah Miller

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Leah Miller: Leah N. Miller, MBA, is the founder and CEO of Firmly Profits, a firm providing fractional CFO and bookkeeping services to law firms across the United States. Starting her career as a paralegal, Leah rose to become a firm administrator and CFO at a personal injury law firm in Fort Myers, Florida, where she recognized the need for law firm owners to gain confidence in their finances. Passionate about helping attorneys achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth, she now leads a team dedicated to offering expert financial guidance, process improvement, and strategic planning for firms of all sizes. Outside of work, Leah teaches paralegal courses and enjoys spending time with her husband and three daughters in sunny Southwest Florida.

Connect with Leah Miller:  

Website: https://firmlyprofits.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LNMFinancialServices/videos

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/firmlyprofits/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/LNM-Financial-Services/100091343407958/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leah_lnm_financial/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gary Miles discuss:

• Facing fear with clarity
• Owning your internal authority
• Focusing on the process, not the outcome
• Building freedom through micro-shifts

Key Takeaways:

• Fear is common in legal careers, often hidden behind competence. Recognize that much of it is imagined, not reality. Facing it openly allows lawyers to act with clarity and confidence.
• Internal authority matters more than external validation. Measure success by your own standards, preparation, and effort, not by others’ opinions or metrics. This mindset creates professional freedom and peace of mind.
• Enjoying the process improves performance more than obsessing over outcomes. Focus on preparation, relationships, and skill-building instead of constant comparison or pressure to “win.” This approach fosters growth and satisfaction.
• Small, practical shifts build lasting change. Replace self-critical thoughts with supportive ones, set clear boundaries, and evaluate progress by skill, enjoyment, and well-being. Over time, these micro-actions compound into meaningful professional freedom.

“There’s fear everywhere. Unfortunately, the reality is that we have to lean into it… We have to lean into the fear and make mistakes, and that’s how we improve." —  Gary Miles

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Gary Miles: Gary Miles is a trial attorney and former managing partner with over 40 years of legal experience, now dedicated to coaching lawyers to thrive. Drawing on his own journey managing complex cases and running a successful firm, he helps attorneys overcome fear, limiting beliefs, and burnout while building practices aligned with their values. Gary is the host of The Free Lawyer podcast and author of Breaking Free: A Guide to Achieving Personal and Professional Freedom as a Lawyer, combining mindset strategies with practical tools for professional and personal fulfillment.

Connect with Gary Miles:  

Website: https://www.garymiles.net/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-freedom/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gary.miles.75641

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/golfinggary52/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqcfaTWo17uxmYS9hfAdiaQ

Free Lawyer Assessment: https://www.garymiles.net/the-free-lawyer-assessment

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Josh Hodges discuss:

• Turning challenges into determination
• Finding opportunity in small markets
• Building influence through consistency and service
• Leading with accountability and learning

Key Takeaways:

• Unconventional paths and high-stakes personal challenges build resilience and drive. Success becomes non-negotiable when urgency is present.
• Leveraging local connections and analyzing lawyer-per-capita dynamics uncovers untapped opportunities. Diversifying practice areas ensures financial stability and community impact.
• Treating marketing, content creation, and networking as long-term habits fosters credibility and goodwill. Prioritizing service-first approaches generates multiple professional opportunities over time.
• Investing in systems, mentorship, and operational structure strengthens sustainable growth. Making timely personnel decisions maintains firm performance and prevents operational strain.

"If you wait until you're not busy or things slow down to start networking, you will retire one day, and it never will occur." —  Josh Hodges

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Josh Hodges: Josh Hodges brings a unique blend of life and professional experience to his practice. After working full-time factory jobs while completing his undergraduate degree, he graduated Summa Cum Laude from Salmon P. Chase College of Law, serving as Student Bar Association President and National Treasurer of NLLSA. He gained experience at a major Midwestern law firm, handling complex civil litigation and high-stakes personal injury cases.

Now based in Hamilton, Ohio, Josh focuses on personal injury law throughout Southwest Ohio as managing partner of Kruger & Hodges Hometown Injury Lawyers. He has personally handled hundreds of cases and leads a team that has successfully managed over 1,000 cases, securing more than $10 million for clients in 2025 alone.

Josh is also a sought-after speaker on national legal podcasts and conferences, teaching lawyers to serve their communities and build stronger practices. He actively mentors younger lawyers, emphasizing the value of guidance and community support in building a successful career.

Connect with Josh Hodges: 

Website: https://thehometownlawyers.com/attorneys/josh-hodges/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-hodges-hplaw/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brooke Lively discuss:

• Recognizing that law firms must master the business of law
• Prioritizing rocks before everything else
• Building culture through the right people and real accountability
• Understanding personal wiring and stage fit

Key Takeaways:

• Law school teaches legal doctrine, not leadership, systems, or execution. Firms that struggle often lack clear vision, aligned people, and real accountability. Frameworks like EOS provide structure for turning intention into consistent results.
• You cannot pursue every opportunity at once without diluting impact. Identifying quarterly “rocks” forces focus and determines what gets a firm’s time and attention. Without clear priorities, “urgent” noise will crowd out important progress.
• Success depends on having the right people in the right seats and refusing to tolerate toxic high performers. Clear metrics, documented processes, and regular follow-through create traction. When accountability becomes normal, execution improves across the firm.
• Leaders thrive in different environments, whether scrappy growth or mature stability. Misalignment between personality and company stage can create friction and unintended chaos. Self-awareness allows both the leader and the firm to operate at their best.

"The urgent overtakes the important, and the important never gets done." —  Brooke Lively

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Brooke Lively: Brooke Lively is a speaker, author, and profitability expert, and the founder of Cathedral Capital, a team of CFOs and Profitability Strategists dedicated to helping entrepreneurs transform their private practices into profitable, well-managed businesses. With an MBA in Investments and Corporate Finance, Brooke has leveraged her experience growing multiple companies to guide clients—from law firms to marketing agencies—in understanding financial statements, making data-driven decisions, and increasing profitability. She is the author of the 6 Key Numbers series, providing accessible financial guidance for business owners, psychologists, and attorneys. Known for her approachable yet candid style, Brooke also delivers engaging keynote presentations that educate entrepreneurs on financial stability, growth management, and sustainable profitability.

Connect with Brooke Lively: 

Website: https://brookelively.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CathedralCapital

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookelively/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg1JD7XBFwGjizaa9_566sg

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cathedralcapital/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sarah Persich discuss:

• Investing time instead of just spending it
• Fixing systems before layering on automation
• Building a connected tech stack that talks to itself
• Using AI strategically while managing risk

Key Takeaways:

• High-performing firms focus on building systems that multiply their time rather than endlessly grinding through tasks. Automation, documented workflows, and thoughtful process design “buy back” hours every week. The goal is long-term leverage, not short-term busyness.
• Most lawyers do not have an automation problem first; they have a clarity problem around roles, processes, and workflows. Undefined responsibilities and undocumented systems cause time leaks long before software can solve anything. Strong foundations make automation effective instead of chaotic.
• A solid CRM, practice management system, and an integration layer like Zapier allow firms to eliminate repetitive manual work. Open APIs and thoughtful integrations turn scattered tools into a coordinated system. When payments, contracts, intake, and follow-ups connect seamlessly, administrative drag disappears.
• AI becomes powerful when prompts are specific, voice is clearly defined, and systems are documented with tools like Loom and structured SOPs. Custom prompts or GPT setups help maintain brand consistency and save substantial time on drafting and research. At the same time, firms must weigh confidentiality, compliance, and ethical considerations before deploying AI at scale.

"I still stayed in my comfort zone for a little while, and I finally allowed myself to accept being uncomfortable… the big mistake was not going out on my own sooner, and staying in that safety zone and accepting the uncomfortability. And it's been really, really great ever since." —  Sarah Persich

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Sarah Persich: Sarah Persich is a law firm automation strategist and operations expert known as “The Automation Lady.” With nearly a decade of experience inside a small law firm, she began her career as a legal assistant. She grew into the integrator role, serving as the operational second-in-command responsible for systems, technology, and process design.

Her hands-on experience managing IT, workflows, and firm infrastructure gave her a front-row seat to the inefficiencies that quietly drain time and profitability from growing practices. Over time, she transitioned from internal operations leadership into marketing and automation strategy, helping firms move beyond reactive task management and toward intentional system design.

Today, Sarah works with law firms to implement CRMs, streamline practice management systems, build automations, and document scalable processes. She helps attorneys distinguish between high-value strategic work and repetitive administrative tasks, enabling them to reclaim time, improve client experience, and build firms that operate with clarity instead of chaos.

Connect with Sarah Persich: 

Website: https://www.automationlady.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpersich/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Evelyn Ackah discuss:

• Reframing challenges as opportunities
• Building security through owning your book of business
• Designing a firm around delegation and technology
• Protecting culture by hiring and leading with intention

Key Takeaways:

• Success begins with asking whether challenges are happening to you or for you. A growth-oriented mindset is not optional for entrepreneurs and rainmakers. Those who thrive train themselves to see obstacles as openings, not endings.
• Relying solely on servicing others’ clients limits mobility and control. Developing your own clients creates long-term security and professional freedom. Rainmaking is a learnable skill built through systems, discipline, and study.
• High-value leaders focus only on work they alone can do. Everything else can be delegated, automated, or systemized through tools and virtual teams. Intentional tech stacks and strong delegation enable autonomy, even four-day workweeks.
• Skills can be trained, but values and attitude determine long-term fit. Toxic hires damage momentum and must be addressed quickly. Great leaders invest in coaches, mentors, and team development to sustain growth.

"Your staff are your dream builders. They help you create your dream. And so you want to invest in them just as much as they're investing in your success." — Evelyn Ackah

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Evelyn Ackah: Evelyn Ackah is the Founder and CEO of Ackah Business Immigration Law, a cross-border firm representing corporations and professionals in Canadian and U.S. immigration matters. With more than 25 years of experience—including leadership roles in Big Law and at Ernst & Young—she delivers strategic, business-focused immigration solutions tailored to her clients’ goals.

Originally from Ghana and raised in Canada, Evelyn brings both personal insight and professional depth to her work in global mobility. She is passionate about legal entrepreneurship, leveraging technology and innovative systems to build a scalable, client-centered practice.

Evelyn is also the host of the Ask Evelyn Ackah Immigration Lawyer podcast, where she interviews industry leaders on immigration and related business topics.

Connect with Evelyn Ackah: 

Website: https://www.ackahlaw.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AckahBusinessImmigrationLaw/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ackahlaw/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ackah-business-immigration-law/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/evelynackah/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ackahlaw/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw7M2pQKwsRteq-nThuaELQ  

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ted DeBettencourt discuss:

• Making prospects feel heard before they hire
• Fixing intake as the real growth lever
• Optimizing website conversion channels
• Adopting a builder’s mindset in business development

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional needs matter as much as legal expertise when someone is choosing a lawyer. If prospects do not feel listened to or cared for, they continue shopping. Human connection is often the deciding factor in a crowded legal marketplace.
• Many firms invest heavily in marketing but lose revenue at the intake stage. Speed of response determines success, as delays of even 24 hours can cost the case. Clear criteria for qualified leads protect attorney time and improve conversion rates.
• Law firm websites must make contact effortless through visible phone numbers, live chat, text, and forms. Human-powered chat and SMS are increasingly driving higher engagement and signed cases. Firms that reduce friction in communication dramatically improve conversion outcomes.
• Opportunities rarely arrive on their own, even with strong credentials. Growth begins when professionals stop waiting and start creating value. Taking initiative and solving real problems can open entirely new career paths.

"Running a law firm 101: don’t answer your own phone, because you’re never getting any work done." — Ted DeBettencourt

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Ted DeBettencourt: Ted DeBettencourt is the founder and CEO of Juvo Leads, a human-powered intake and chat service helping law firms convert more website visitors into signed clients. With a JD/MBA background, Ted shifted from pursuing traditional legal roles to building solutions that improve law firm marketing and intake performance. He focuses on speed, connection, and ensuring prospects feel heard — proving that human engagement remains a powerful differentiator in a digital world.

Connect with Ted DeBettencourt: 

Website: https://juvoleads.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Breems discuss:

• Letting a niche form over time
• Earning trust through depth and preparation
• Using competence as the foundation of marketing
• Positioning intentionally with the right relationships

Key Takeaways:

• Niching down is a gradual process shaped by consistency, passion, and earned trust. Being focused does not require rejecting all other work, only clarifying what you are known for. A clear niche strengthens credibility and often opens doors to adjacent opportunities.
• Strong niches are built by mastering statutes, procedures, and expectations within a specific role. Every case should be treated as reputation-defining, regardless of size or visibility. Reliability, preparedness, and professionalism compound into long-term trust.
• Visibility is effective only when it reflects genuine skill and consistent performance. Writing, speaking, and sharing expertise help decision makers remember you for a specific strength. Marketing should amplify substance, not replace it.
• Focused networking outperforms broad, unfocused relationship building. Clear positioning makes it easier for others to understand, remember, and refer to you. Niching is strongest when aligned with real demand and access to decision makers.

"Don’t wait until you’re ready… Letting fear or doubt stop you from going after a niche is really the biggest roadblock." —  Colleen Breems

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Colleen Breems: Colleen M. Breems is a partner practicing exclusively in matrimonial and family law. She represents clients in divorce, parentage, post-decree matters, prenuptial and postnuptial agreements, and related family law issues, with a focus on practical, client-centered solutions.

In addition to representing adults, Colleen is frequently appointed by Cook County judges to serve as a Child’s Representative or Guardian ad Litem, advocating for the best interests of children in family law cases. She is also a trained mediator and parent coordinator.

Colleen is deeply committed to public service, dedicating significant time to pro bono work through Chicago Volunteer Legal Services and serving as Co-Vice President of the Advocacy Council for the Junior League of Chicago.

Connect with Colleen Breems:  

Website: https://beermannlaw.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-breems-a8a4631b/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tom Conner discuss:

• Treating note-taking as professional insurance
• Using discomfort to set daily priorities
• Choosing relationships as the foundation of business development
• Letting character determine long-term success

Key Takeaways:

• Relying on memory is a gamble, especially when ideas, tasks, and details arrive constantly. Writing everything down ensures nothing important slips through the cracks. The tool matters less than the habit of capturing thoughts before they disappear.
• Starting with the task you least want to do lowers anxiety for the rest of the day. Avoidance only prolongs stress, whether with paperwork or difficult phone calls. Momentum is built by confronting discomfort early, not managing it away.
• Referrals grow out of trust earned through service, generosity, and long-term presence. Bar involvement and community leadership create credibility that no marketing tactic can replace. Strong reputations are built quietly and often pay dividends years later.
• Integrity functions as a filter for clients, colleagues, and career decisions. Fairness and honesty build trust even with opponents and judges. The same clarity guides how to retire, whom to trust, and how to leave a legacy.

"Your reputation is everything, and it's hard to build, and it's easy to destroy." — Tom Conner

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Tom Conner: Tom Conner is a fourth-generation Texan and veteran trial lawyer whose life and career span more than four decades of courtroom practice. Raised in a small West Texas farming community, he brought grit and resilience from his early years into a distinguished legal career in Houston, where he handled high-stakes civil and family law cases and earned a reputation for integrity and advocacy. His memoir, From Cotton Fields to Courtrooms, blends personal history with reflections on major trials, life lessons, and the discipline that shaped his path from rural beginnings to respected attorney and storyteller.

Connect with Tom Conner:  

Website: https://tomconnerbooks.com/ , https://www.lawcl.com/lawyers/thomas-r-conner/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss:

• Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practice
• Shifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibility
• Using small, consistent actions to compound business development
• Gaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker

Key Takeaways:

• Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth.
• A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection.
• Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results.
• Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control.

"If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million." —  Jennifer Gillman

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University.

Connect with Jennifer Gillman:  

Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Bagwell discuss:

• Prioritize profit over revenue
• Cultivating virtue and adaptability in leadership
• Rethinking traditional metrics
• Building resilience through self-awareness

Key Takeaways:

• Sustainable law firms focus on true profitability, not just top-line revenue, ensuring resources for reinvestment and owner compensation.
• Effective leaders build moral character, listen deeply, transform failure into feedback, and create psychologically safe environments while holding teams accountable.
• Billable hours are outdated; value-based, flat-fee, or subscription models paired with results-oriented KPIs align incentives with client outcomes and firm sustainability.
• Perseverance, reflection, and deliberate self-leadership are essential for navigating personal and professional challenges and for leading others effectively.

"Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." —  Noel Bagwell

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/
 

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Noel Bagwell: Noel Bagwell is the founder of Counsel & Clarity™, where he helps leaders and organizations build resilient leadership, profitable legal relationships, and effective legal operations. His work focuses on supporting startups, growth-stage companies, and executives navigating complexity, change, and high-stakes decision-making.

Through Leadership Resilience Coaching, Noel works with leaders recovering from personal or professional setbacks, helping them rebuild capacity, strengthen self-leadership, and lead with clarity under pressure. His coaching emphasizes resilience, reflection, and sustainable performance rather than short-term fixes.

Noel also provides Legal Coaching and Services, guiding clients through complex legal challenges with a practical, business-aligned approach. He helps organizations better understand the legal landscape, make informed decisions, and create legal strategies that support long-term goals rather than reactive problem-solving.

In his Legal Operations Coaching, Noel partners with legal teams to optimize processes, streamline workflows, and improve how legal functions deliver value. By aligning operations with business priorities, he enables legal departments to become more efficient, effective, and strategically integrated.

Connect with Noel Bagwell:  

Website: https://counselandclarity.com/home-page

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbagwell3/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss:

• Legal expertise without systems limits growth
• Focus outperforms expansion without infrastructure
• Value-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven future
• Future-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified

Key Takeaways:

• Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management.
• Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag.
• Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes.
• Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models.

"There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." —  Sandy Fisch

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976.

A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert.

Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family.

About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices.

Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States.

Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch:  

Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss:

• Action can precede clarity
• Growth requires delegation, not endurance
• Authenticity strengthens leadership and trust
• Expertise must be valued to be sustainable

Key Takeaways:

• Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does.
• Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode.
• Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships.
• Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom.

"I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself." —  Deirdre Nero

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies.

Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies.

Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research.

Connect with Deirdre Nero:  

Website: https://neroimmigration.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Andrews discuss:

• Prioritizing others to drive long-term success
• Delegation as a lever for higher-value work
• Hiring and managing support effectively
• Shifting from doing to thinking as a leader

Key Takeaways:

• Sustainable business growth comes from helping team members, clients, and referral partners achieve their goals first. Celebrate client milestones, develop your team, and make introductions without expecting immediate returns. Focusing outward builds trust, loyalty, and lasting relationships that compound over time.
• Lawyers often get stuck handling admin, marketing, and operations alongside legal tasks. Listing tasks to delegate frees you to focus on work only you can do and grow the firm strategically. Delegation transforms busywork into leverage and career impact.
• Start with clarity: define tasks first, then map them to a role, location, and level of support. Remote talent in regions like Eastern Europe or South Africa can provide high-quality work at a lower cost. Clear KPIs, meaningful projects, and trust are more effective than micromanaging hours.
• Resist the urge to control every detail; hire capable assistants to own outcomes. Delegating at a high level frees time for strategic thinking and future planning. Leaders must balance action with observation to maximize impact and firm growth.

"Every single time I’ve ever done the next stage for me, or the next step in really investing in supporting my team, particularly in their personal lives, the results are just huge." —  Noel Andrews

"Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Noel Andrews: Noel Andrews is the CEO of JobRack, a global recruitment company that helps entrepreneurs and business owners hire high-quality remote talent, primarily from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background in online business and operations, Noel specializes in building systems that allow founders to delegate effectively, scale sustainably, and reclaim time for higher-level thinking.

Through JobRack, he has helped hundreds of companies move beyond founder overload by hiring experienced, proactive team members who can truly own outcomes. Noel is known for his practical, clarity-first approach to hiring, leadership, and remote team management, emphasizing trust, accountability, and long-term leverage over micromanagement.

Connect with Noel Andrews:  

Website: https://jobrack.eu/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/

Ashley Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jay Harrington discuss:

• Reframing business development as relationship-building
• The power of owning a book of business
• Clarifying motivation to overcome resistance to business development
• Executing business development with focus, structure, and preparation

Key Takeaways:

• Business development is not selling or persuasion but consistent, helpful relationship-building over time. The myth of “natural rainmakers” keeps lawyers from starting when business development is actually a learnable skill. Approaching business development like legal training makes it practical, repeatable, and less intimidating.
• After several years of practice, firms expect lawyers to have portable client relationships. A book of business creates leverage, autonomy, and flexibility across firms or career paths. Without one, even strong lawyers may find their options limited.
• Many lawyers avoid business development due to fear, overwhelm, or discomfort with selling. Sustainable effort starts by defining a clear personal “why,” such as freedom or stability. Because client work always takes priority, business development only happens when time is protected intentionally.
• Consistent actions like scheduled outreach, focused contact lists, and light thought leadership compound. Effective networking prioritizes generosity, warm introductions, and strategic communities. Securing a meeting is only the start; preparation and process determine whether opportunities close.

"Business Development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, being helpful to people." —  Jay Harrington

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Jay Harrington: Before joining Latitude, Jay spent more than 25 years in the legal industry as a practicing attorney and entrepreneur. He began his career in corporate restructuring with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Chicago and later practiced at Foley & Lardner LLP in Detroit. In 2009, he founded his own boutique law firm in Detroit, where he represented companies and executives in complex business disputes and restructuring matters.

For the past decade, Jay has advised lawyers and law firms on business development, marketing, and strategy through his own consulting firm. He is a frequent keynote speaker and workshop leader at law firm retreats, bar association events, and professional conferences, focusing on topics such as productivity, leadership, and practice growth.

Jay is also the author of three books for lawyers—The Productivity Pivot, The Essential Associate, and One of a Kind—each focused on helping attorneys build rewarding, sustainable, and successful practices.

He earned his J.D. from the University of Michigan Law School and his B.A. from Bowling Green State University, where he played Division I baseball and competed in the 1998 College World Series Regionals.

Outside of work, Jay is a U.S. Soccer–licensed coach and manages his twin daughters’ competitive North Storm club team. He and his wife, Heather, live in Michigan with their three daughters. He enjoys spending time outdoors—hiking, mountain biking, and paddle boarding—and experience has taught him that the best ideas often come while on the trail or on the water.

Connect with Jay Harrington:  

Website: https://latitudelegal.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayharrington/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mathew Kerbis discuss:

• AI’s impact on billable work
• Recognizing the limits of hourly and flat fees
• Using subscriptions to create stability and scale
• Positioning lawyers for long-term resilience

Key Takeaways:

• AI is set to automate most billable legal tasks, collapsing the hours firms rely on for revenue. Continuing to bill time while effort shrinks creates ethical and financial strain. The profession must rethink pricing before the model breaks entirely.
• Hourly billing punishes efficiency and leaves clients unable to budget. Flat fees help, but often trigger resistance when AI makes work appear “too easy.” Both models strain under faster, AI-driven workflows.
• Subscription pricing offers predictable costs for clients and recurring value for firms. Changing needs are handled through tier shifts instead of constant renegotiation. This approach opens access to the vast unmet legal market.
• Solo and small firms can thrive by pairing subscriptions with purpose-built AI tools. Clear value mapping enables strong good-better-best service tiers. Sustainable growth requires leverage, focus, and letting go of doing everything alone.

"The flat fee or fixed fee model… hasn’t supplanted the billable hour… because of exactly this problem I call the under‑scoping and over‑scoping problem. You don't know if you're going to overscope or underscope the work when it's on a fixed‑fee model." —  Mathew Kerbis

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Mathew Kerbis: Mathew Kerbis is the founder of Subscription Attorney LLC and co-founder of practi.ai, where he helps lawyers move beyond the billable hour and build sustainable, client-friendly practices. A longtime advocate for subscription-based legal services, Mathew pioneered one of the earliest low-cost legal subscription models and has since expanded into fractional general counsel work for small businesses. He also hosts the Law Subscribed podcast, where he explores alternative fee models, legal innovation, and the future of law in an AI-driven world.

Connect with Mathew Kerbis: 

Website: https://www.practi.ai/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerbisverse/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mandy McCormack discuss:

• Recognizing business development as a critical legal skill
• Aligning coaching with motivation and execution
• Building authentic personal branding
• Creating lasting impact through structured support

Key Takeaways:

• Marketing, planning, and relationship-building are essential for long-term career success, not optional extras. Structured coaching transforms these skills into sustainable, high-ROI practices.
• Coaching works best when goals, gaps, and willingness to act are clear. Alignment between the lawyer’s needs and the coach’s methods drives meaningful results.
• Sharing personal stories alongside professional expertise strengthens trust, deepens relationships, and attracts clients who resonate with values, not just credentials.
• Combining training, personalized coaching, and on-demand guidance enables lawyers to internalize skills, stay focused, and achieve long-term growth without dependency on the coach.

"I don’t think anybody wants to follow someone who talks the talk but isn’t walking the walk. I have to be doing those things at an incredibly high level to be able to coach my clients on it." —  Steve Fretzin

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Mandy McCormack: Mandy McCormack, Esq., is the founder of McCormack Law LLC, where she specializes in estate planning, tax law, and related advisory services. She helps clients navigate complex financial and legal decisions with clarity and confidence, creating tailored plans that protect assets, minimize tax liability, and provide peace of mind. Mandy is dedicated to combining technical expertise with a personal, approachable style, ensuring that every client understands their options and feels supported in the planning process. She is committed to helping individuals, families, and business owners prepare for the future while aligning legal strategies with their goals and values.

Connect with Mandy McCormack: 

Website: https://mccormacklawllc.com/

Yelp: https://www.yelp.com/biz/mccormack-law-brookfield-2

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandamccormacklaw/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61568230072605

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Earley discuss:

• Treating consistency as the real competitive edge
• Building trust through authenticity over achievement
• Matching platforms to where your audience already lives
• Playing the long game of value before promotion

Key Takeaways:

• Showing up every day with content is not a tactic but the game itself. One post a day over time compounds into trust, visibility, and separation. Most lawyers will not endure the discipline, which is precisely why it works.
• Audiences respond more to struggle, growth, and honesty than polished wins. Sharing mistakes, personal history, and lessons humanizes the professional brand. Credibility grows faster when vulnerability comes before accomplishment.
• Effective content starts by knowing who you serve and where they spend their attention. B2B audiences tend to gather on LinkedIn, while B2C clients live elsewhere. Posting everywhere is fine, but focus belongs where attention already flows.
• Education, insight, and generosity must outweigh direct selling over time. Promotion works only after value has been delivered consistently and visibly. Your brand strengthens when service leads and asks follow.

“I think the practitioner should be posting, if you really want to get serious, once a day on LinkedIn… One post. Can you do that for a year and stick with that? I’ve done that for like four or five years, and the flywheel just expands." —  Chris Earley

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Chris Earley: Christopher Earley is a Boston-based personal injury attorney and founder of Earley Law Group Injury Lawyers, where he has devoted nearly two decades to advocating for injury victims and standing up to powerful insurance companies. He holds a J.D. from New England Law (2004) and is admitted to practice in Massachusetts. Chris is also an accomplished author of multiple consumer guides, a legal columnist for the American Bar Association and Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly, and a frequent speaker on law firm business topics. His work has earned recognition, including multiple Massachusetts Super Lawyer honors. Beyond law, he serves his community through youth sports coaching and local partnerships, all while emphasizing clear communication, client education, and relentless advocacy.

Connect with Chris Earley:   

Website: https://www.chrisearley.com/

Justia Lawyers: https://lawyers.justia.com/lawyer/christopher-earley-1335943

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisEarleyLaw

Twitter: https://twitter.com/chrisearleylaw

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Law-Offices-of-Christopher-Earley-104980886333/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/earleylawgroupinjurylawyers/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matthew Fornaro discuss:

• Making solo practice more accessible than ever
• Using AI as a force multiplier for small firms
• Practicing ethical and intentional AI adoption
• Rethinking legal business models and skill sets

Key Takeaways:

• Starting a firm no longer requires a large office, full staff, or major upfront investment. A focused LinkedIn presence paired with a simple, low-cost website can be sufficient early on.
• Matthew relies on AI for email triage, document review, and marketing support across his practice. These tools increasingly replace costly vendors while delivering speed, consistency, and scale.
• Responsible lawyers review and verify AI outputs instead of submitting them unchecked. Those who ignore AI entirely or misuse it are falling behind or facing real professional consequences.
• AI-driven efficiency puts pressure on traditional billable-hour structures in Big Law and beyond. Matthew emphasizes that business education is as critical as legal skills for long-term success.

"In dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don't use AI or whatever, they're getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly." —  Matthew Fornaro

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Matthew Fornaro: Matthew Fornaro is a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. He began his career at two AmLaw 200 firms, focusing on civil litigation, before founding his own practice.

His work includes complex commercial litigation, contract disputes, construction law, intellectual property, and business formation and documentation. A member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, Matthew also mentors new attorneys and entrepreneurs through the Kaufman Foundation’s FastTrac NewVenture Program and Florida State University’s Jim Moran Institute.

As a small business owner himself, he is proud to support and represent businesses throughout his community.

Connect with Matthew Fornaro: 

Website: https://fornarolegal.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fornarolegal/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfornaro/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZn4sEROz6hErV5Fb5vvOtQ

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fornaro_legal/

X: https://twitter.com/FornaroLegal

Additional Resources: Jeremy Baker - https://operationpalmtree.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Wes Lungwitz discuss:

• Adapting to change in legal marketing
• Strengthening the website as the foundation
• Optimizing for AI-driven discovery
• Evaluating partners and acting proactively

Key Takeaways:

• Law firm growth now depends on adapting to AI, new search behavior, and shifting marketing dynamics. Firms that remain static risk losing visibility as discovery moves beyond traditional SEO.
• A law firm website must be fast, technically clean, accessible, and well-structured. Personalized practice-area content and visible social proof reinforce trust and conversion.
• Search is shifting toward AI assistants and answer engines that reward clarity and structure. Conversational content, deep practice pages, and schema markup increase AI visibility.
• Agencies must actively address AI visibility, schema strategy, and changing discovery behavior. Google Business Profiles remain essential for legitimacy and intent capture.

"You have to adapt in life and change and keep up with the times, and it's just so important in our industry and just life in general." —  Wes Lungwitz

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Wes Lungwitz: Wes Lungwitz is the co-founder and managing partner of Civille, a digital marketing and technology company focused exclusively on helping law firms grow. With a background in highly competitive, data-driven digital marketing, he brings modern website, SEO, and analytics strategies to an industry that has traditionally lagged behind other verticals. Wes regularly speaks and writes on the future of legal marketing, including AI-driven search and evolving discovery behavior.

Connect with Wes Lungwitz:  

Website: https://getciville.com/  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wes-lungwitz-1b532432/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Alefiyah Lindo discuss:

• Planning the future by evaluating what actually worked
• Supporting happiness without trying to control it
• Using energy as a diagnostic tool for alignment
• Treating burnout as feedback and adjusting accordingly

Key Takeaways:

• Reviewing the past year reveals which habits, strategies, and commitments deserve to continue and which do not. Entering a new year without reflection leads to repeating default patterns rather than making intentional choices. Sustainable growth comes from consistency and long-term relationship building, not one-off efforts.
• You cannot create happiness for others, only support their ability to create it themselves. Taking responsibility for other people’s emotional outcomes leads to exhaustion and blurred boundaries. Healthy leadership and parenting require allowing others to experience discomfort and self-direction.
• Alignment exists when beliefs, words, actions, and emotions are consistent with one another. Chronic fatigue, burnout, and self-sabotage are indicators of misalignment rather than laziness or failure. Tracking what energizes and depletes you provides clearer guidance than what you think you “should” enjoy.
• Burnout signals a need to realign priorities, responsibilities, and expectations. Bringing subconscious patterns into conscious awareness is a prerequisite for lasting change. Different results require different actions, even when those actions challenge long-held assumptions.

"Energy work really is when what we believe, what we say, what we do, and what we feel are all on the same page. That’s what energy alignment is." —  Alefiyah Lindo

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Alefiyah Lindo: Alefiyah Lindo is a Mind-Body-Energy Intuitive and licensed psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience, integrating holistic, non-dual approaches to healing that address the mind, body, and energy system. Her work blends intuitive guidance with practices such as mindfulness, breathwork, EFT, and energy medicine, shaped by early Buddhist practice and trauma-informed training. Alefiyah holds degrees from Purdue University and the University of Illinois, is licensed in Illinois, and provides personalized care rooted in both extensive professional training and lived experience, guided by the principle of Namaste — honoring the light in each person she serves.

Connect with Alefiyah Lindo:   

Website: https://www.alefiyahlindo.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alefiyahlindo/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alefiyah-lindo-6a158a83/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@alefiyahlindo9955

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deborah Farone discuss:

• Using business development as a path to influence and autonomy
• Starting relationship-building early in your career
• Aligning marketing with authenticity and personality
• Deepening trust by focusing on long-term relationships

Key Takeaways:

• Business development gives women greater control over their careers, choices, and leadership opportunities. A strong book of business shifts power dynamics and opens doors that talent alone often cannot.
• Business development is most effective when it begins in law school, not at a partnership. Early relationships compound over time and prevent habits that isolate lawyers from future clients.
• The most effective business development reflects who you are, not generic networking scripts. Choosing methods that fit your interests builds consistency, credibility, and long-term momentum.
• Client loyalty grows from empathy, understanding, and sustained connection beyond transactions. Investing in existing relationships delivers greater impact than constantly chasing new clients.

"They say it's five times more expensive to get a brand new client than it is to grow an existing client. So it's a better use of your time." —  Deborah Farone

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Deborah Farone: Deborah Farone is a strategic advisor, author, and speaker specializing in business development and marketing for law firms. She is the founder of Farone Advisors, where she helps lawyers build strong client relationships and sustainable practices. Deborah previously served as Chief Marketing Officer at Cravath, Swaine & Moore and Debevoise & Plimpton, and is widely recognized as a pioneer in legal business development. She is the author of Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing and a frequent lecturer at law schools and legal organizations worldwide.

Connect with Deborah Farone:  

Website: https://deborahfarone.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Charlie Gaudet discuss:

• Moving beyond hard work toward sustainable growth
• Escaping the founder-centered business model
• Outperforming talent using systems
• Protecting time as the highest-leverage asset

Key Takeaways:

• Hard work eventually becomes a liability when it replaces strategy, systems, and recovery. Sustainable growth requires designing the business so it scales without destroying the founder’s health or capacity.
• Businesses stall when the founder becomes the bottleneck for decisions, delivery, and growth. Long-term scale only happens when systems and teams replace heroic individual effort.
• Top performers win not because they work harder, but because their systems reduce variation and create consistency. Documented, measurable processes turn small improvements into repeatable, compounding gains.
• Return on Time matters more than effort, activity, or hours worked. Delegation, automation, and pricing strategy free leaders to focus on high-impact thinking instead of constant execution.

"They have to look at ROT, which is return on time… Where are they spending the time, and how do they maximize their time?… Raise your rate… leverage AI… More and more attorneys are able to get more done in less time when they can leverage AI in the right way." —  Charlie Gaudet

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Charlie Gaudet: Charlie Gaudet is the author of “The Predictable Profits Playbook: The 7- and 8-Figure CEOs’ Guide to Generating Consistent and Sustainable Growth“ (voted #1 Book on Sales & Marketing by Indie Excellence) and host of The Beyond 7-Figures Podcast.

The International Business Times called him “The Go-To Business Coach for 7- and 8-Figure Businesses” and perhaps the “busiest sales coach in the US.“

GritDaily said Gaudet is: “regarded in entrepreneurial circles as one of the top coaches for helping entrepreneurs surpass the seven and eight-figure mark.”

Yahoo Finance referred to him as: “The CEO Whisperer.”

CEO Weekly said he was one of the top 10 “Innovative CEOs to Follow.”

And he’s listed at the top of several “Best Business Coach”  lists.

He’s been an entrepreneur since the age of 4, created his first multi-million dollar business at 24, and has helped others generate millions with his strategies.

He’s received numerous awards and recognition (including founding a company named as “One of the Best Seed Stage Companies” by Ernst & Young), received his Certificate of Leadership Development from The US Army War College and has his business advice featured around in the world – including Inc., Forbes, Salesforce, Success, Entrepreneur, and Fox Business – as well as on podcasts and radio.

He was named one of American Genius’s Top 50 Industry Influencers.

He trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (two gold medal finishes) and is a 3-time wrestling state champion. He lives in Florida with his beautiful wife, three adorable kid-preneurs, and one badass dog.

Connect with Charlie Gaudet:  

Website: https://predictableprofits.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Joyce discuss:

• Failing fast while managing risk
• Building a competitive legal practice intentionally
• Treating sales as listening and diagnosis
• Leading and adapting for the future of law

Key Takeaways:

• Test ideas quickly and learn from small, recoverable failures. Avoid high-stakes decisions that can jeopardize the entire business. Fast iteration builds resilience in a rapid attention and news cycle.
• Strong branding is essential in a crowded legal market. Lawyers must understand marketing and business, not just legal skills. Personal brand and visibility increasingly determine growth and opportunity.
• Effective sales begins with asking questions and listening deeply. Clients commit when they feel understood, not when they are pitched.  A clear diagnosis must come before proposing solutions or pricing.
• Know your strengths and hire to cover gaps. Transparency and honesty strengthen leadership and team trust. Investing in technology, efficiency, and learning is required to stay competitive.

"I know lawyers don't like to hear this, but they are salespeople, just like every other job." —  Colleen Joyce

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Colleen Joyce: Colleen Joyce is the Chief Executive Officer of Lawyer.com, the leading U.S. legal directory and lawyer-matching service that connects consumers with qualified local attorneys. She has spent over a decade building and scaling Lawyer.com’s offerings, from foundational directory services to expanded products, marketing education (including CLE courses), and industry events focused on lawyer growth and digital strategy. Joyce previously served as President and Senior Vice President of Lawyer Services, developing deep expertise in management, online legal marketing, and business development before becoming CEO in 2024. Under her leadership, Lawyer.com has experienced significant growth and expanded its role in helping lawyers with client acquisition, thought leadership, and industry engagement. Joyce also brings a background in marketing and publicity from earlier roles, including directing marketing and public relations at PopStar.com, and holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Illinois, graduating magna cum laude in liberal arts and sciences.

Connect with Colleen Joyce:

Website: http://www.lawyer.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenjoyce/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Amy Wood discuss:

• Cultivating inner balance
• Training your career like an athlete
• Building the four pillars of success
• Managing energy and embracing growth

Key Takeaways:

• Focus on inner balance rather than chasing work–life balance. Intentionally manage your energy, mindset, and relationships to sustain long-term professional performance.
• Treat your career like elite athletic training by consistently prioritizing physical health, restorative sleep, and daily self-care as essential foundations for mental sharpness.
• Surround yourself with the four pillars of success: a genuinely supportive network, a solution-oriented mindset, deliberate self-care, and engaging, nourishing diversions that spark creativity.
• Protect and invest your energy wisely, design environments that actively inspire focus, and embrace mistakes as valuable opportunities for growth, reflection, and learning.

"When you're thinking about your energy, look at it like a battery that needs to be recharged." —  Amy Wood

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Amy Wood: Dr. Amy Wood is a licensed psychologist, certified executive coach, and award-winning author who has devoted her career to helping individuals and organizations articulate and arrive at new and more empowering versions of success.

In particular, she is known for helping individuals and organizations to edit down overwhelm to their own customized productivity and happiness essentials. With a doctorate from Adler University and a prior career in communications, she inspires transformation with a unique blend of humor, directness, and psychological insight. Dr. Wood’s intention is always to live and work in ways that bring out the best in herself and others.

Connect with Amy Wood:  

Website: https://amywoodpsyd.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amywoodpsyd/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Filan discuss:

• Reclaiming life before life demands it
• Asking the questions that change everything
• Stepping off the professional hamster wheel
• Choosing authenticity over performance

Key Takeaways:

• Near-death experiences show how fragile, temporary, and precious life truly is. Fulfillment starts when we stop postponing purpose and intentionally live each day in alignment with what truly matters most.
• Fear often hides our deepest desires, but asking the right questions clearly reveals them. Imagining our future self at the end of life helps guide decisions toward what we genuinely want and value.
• Overwork often masks misalignment with our own integrity, health, and needs. Sustainable progress begins by recognizing limits, slowing down, and making intentional changes that honor both well-being and meaningful work.
• Long-term fulfillment cannot grow from roles we play to please others or meet external expectations. True joy and inner peace emerge when we live, work, and lead consistently in alignment with our authentic selves.

"I can't outsource my happiness. So if I'm not happy today with what I have, where I am... I'm not going to be happy then when I get it." —  Susan Filan

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Susan Filan: Susan is a former prosecutor and MSNBC Senior Legal Analyst turned transformational speaker and life strategist. With over 30 years in high-stakes arenas—from prosecuting cold-case murders to defending clients on death row and analyzing national cases on cable and network television—she has faced some of the toughest challenges imaginable. Her greatest trial, however, came in a near-fatal accident that became her ultimate wake-up call, inspiring her to help others transform crisis into clarity and purpose. Susan blends legal grit, neuroscience, and spiritual insight to guide high achievers in breaking free from limiting beliefs, reigniting their deepest dreams, and creating lives of joy, fulfillment, and impact. Known as The Wake-Up Call Speaker and The Architect of Reinvention, she delivers keynotes, private strategy sessions, immersive retreats, and media appearances designed to awaken potential, spark transformation, and help people reinvent their lives from the inside out.

Connect with Susan Filan: 

Website: https://susanfilan.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanfilan/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dustin Ruge discuss:

• Strategic decision-making in choosing clients
• Communicating value through intentional sales processes
• Adapting to AI-driven shifts in legal labor
• Rebuilding legal services through integrated ecosystems

Key Takeaways:

• Choosing which cases to decline becomes a powerful profitability strategy. Disciplined selection protects focus, energy, and long-term growth. The strongest outcomes come from working only with motivated, well-aligned clients.
• Modern legal sales depend on uncovering client needs rather than presenting credentials. Deep qualification shapes tailored solutions that build trust and clarity. Firms that master value communication thrive as outcomes matter more than hours.
• The billable hour strains against rising expectations for efficiency and transparency. Automation is absorbing routine intake and associate-level work. Firms that embrace value-based pricing gain an advantage in a reshaped landscape.
• AI is transforming a fragmented industry into cohesive, streamlined platforms. New business structures and investments accelerate disruption and innovation. Lean, automated operations create opportunities in underserved markets.

"The first meeting is all about the client, the second meeting is all about you." —  Dustin Ruge

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Dustin Ruge: Dustin W Ruge is known as one of the most respected and trusted sales, marketing, and business growth coaches in the nation. In addition to his numerous books and publications, Dustin frequently appears and is referenced in major news and trade publications, business shows, and trains and keynotes at conferences across the nation. Dustin’s career includes over 27 years’ experience, ranging from technology startups to Fortune 500 companies, where he has received numerous awards and recognition for his work.

Dustin graduated from the University of Nebraska – Lincoln and currently lives in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Connect with Dustin Ruge: 

Website: https://dustinruge.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinruge/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Pam Meissner discuss:

• Aligning strengths with strategy
• Addressing operational challenges
• Clarifying compensation and career paths
• Maximizing long-term firm value

Key Takeaways:

• Successful firm growth depends on matching personal strengths to business goals. Chasing clients or revenue alone does not ensure satisfaction or long-term success. Intentional planning creates a foundation for sustainable growth and fulfillment.
• Lawyers often face cash flow issues, staff management, and unclear compensation. These operational gaps can lead to stress and sleepless nights if unchecked. Recognizing and addressing challenges early safeguards both firm and personal well-being.
• Open conversations about pay and partnership tracks motivate legal professionals. Transparency fosters equity and encourages long-term commitment from team members. Clear structures help attorneys understand their role in firm growth and success.
• Profitability, efficient systems, and reducing single-owner dependency matter most. External guidance, such as fractional CFOs, can help firms overcome growth plateaus. Strategic planning ensures the firm remains valuable for exits or future opportunities.

"Everybody wants more money, and they don't realize it comes with problems, and they don't realize that we all get paid for solving problems, but you have to pick the problems you're really good at solving, because if you're solving problems that you're not good at, you're going to be miserable." —  Pam Meissner

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Pam Meissner: Pam Meissner is the COO, Director of Client Services & CFO at CathCap. She is a seasoned CPA and financial executive whose career spans public accounting, multinational corporations, and entrepreneurial ventures. She has served as a CPA, CFO, COO, CEO, and even a stay-at-home mom, bringing a rare combination of technical expertise and real-world business insight to every role. Now at CathCap, Pam leverages her decades of experience to guide clients in financial strategy, operational excellence, and coaching, helping businesses achieve sustainable growth and success.

Connect with Pam Meissner:

Website: https://cathcap.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adam Williams discuss:

• Planning taxes proactively
• Exploring creative tax strategies
• Building a professional team
• Implementing actionable year-end steps

Key Takeaways:

• Most law firms wait until filing to address taxes, missing savings opportunities. Working with a tax strategist year-round aligns decisions with long-term goals. Proactive planning uncovers ways to reduce liabilities and strengthen financial outcomes.
• Techniques like the Augusta rule, hiring family members, and royalty setups save money. Advanced structures such as captive insurance can provide additional tax benefits. Knowing these options allows law firms to tailor strategies to their unique situation.
• Successful tax and business strategies require bookkeepers, advisors, and strategists. Delegating responsibilities reduces personal burden while improving firm performance. A strong team empowers owners to focus on growth and long-term success.
• Year-end is ideal for accelerating deductions and making tax-advantaged purchases. Prepaying vendors or investing in marketing can reduce taxable income efficiently. Evaluating current practices ensures every opportunity for savings is captured.

"If they don’t bring you ideas throughout the year, you don’t have a tax strategist. You have a tax preparer." —  Adam Williams

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Adam Williams: Adam started this business out of frustration with accountants who congratulated him for having a large tax bill.

As a serial entrepreneur, Adam is inspired by entrepreneurship and small business, direct response marketing, non-traditional and unexpected solutions, mindset & personal development, helping create businesses that serve the owners, and high-performance driving.

Adam received his undergraduate degree in Business from Penn State Behrend and his MBA and J.D. from the University of Pittsburgh. A Cathedral Prep graduate and active member of the community, Adam has served on the Board of Directors for the Erie County Bar Association, Lakeshore Community Services, the Innovation Collaborative, and the Erie Art Museum. He was named to the 2013 Erie Reader 40 Under 40, and has also been listed as a Pennsylvania Super Lawyers Rising Star in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019. 

Connect with Adam Williams: 

Website: https://www.pennywise.tax/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ben Dach discuss:

• Prioritizing layered mentorship
• Strengthening firm culture for development
• Maintaining clear communication in mentoring
• Using delegation and varied experience for growth

Key Takeaways:

• Professionals should pursue multiple mentors with complementary strengths to build balanced legal and leadership skills. Proactive outreach broadens perspective and accelerates growth across stages of a career. Treating mentorship as a continuous discipline ensures steady, long-term development.
• Growth is amplified in environments that value collaboration, approachability, and shared learning. Supportive cultures help young attorneys apply feedback with confidence and consistency. When mentorship is part of a firm’s values, long-term development becomes more sustainable.
• Clear expectations and honest conversations create stability and direction in mentor relationships. Early resolution of misalignment strengthens trust and accountability for both sides. Consistent feedback loops reinforce progress and keep development moving forward.
• Delegation offers meaningful opportunities to build judgment and independence through real responsibility. Structured tools provide quality and clarity as workloads expand over time. Diverse experiences and firm environments round out long-term professional capability.

"Just do the things and fail. Fail a lot, because you won't know until you do the things, and then you fail, and then you learn." —  Ben Dach
 

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
 

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
 

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/
 

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
 

About Ben Dach: Benjamin Dach, Ph.D., Esq., is an accomplished patent attorney with extensive experience in intellectual property litigation, prosecution, and counseling. With experience in patent, copyright, and trademark litigation, procurement, and licensing, Ben focuses on development, protection, and monetization of patent, copyright, and trademark portfolios, strategic licensing, commercial agreements, diligence, and enforcement strategies. He has represented clients in numerous actions in U.S. courts, administrative proceedings, and before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board and Trademark Trial and Appeal Board.
 

Connect with Ben Dach: 

Website: https://pierferd.com/benjamin-i-dach

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamindach/
 

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Allison Williams discuss:

• Developing business skills beyond legal training
• Balancing legal work with true leadership roles
• Strengthening sales and client relationships with structure
• Reducing stress through systems, communication, and metrics

Key Takeaways:

• Law school doesn’t teach the core business, sales, and time-management abilities required to run a successful firm. Lawyers must intentionally build these skills to avoid overwhelm and stagnation. Growth begins when practitioners embrace authenticity, process, and systemization.
• Many lawyer-owners struggle to act as both practitioner and CEO, leading to stress and inefficiency. Strong operational leaders and a capable C-suite can restore focus and improve firm performance. Delegating business responsibilities is essential for long-term sustainability.
• Sales shouldn’t feel like auditioning for clients; the goal is to understand needs and build genuine rapport. Structured processes help qualify leads, nurture relationships, and improve conversion rates. Starting with reliable referral sources and existing channels leads to better outcomes.
• Systematized communication—from clear policies to automated updates—prevents client-driven chaos. Tools like workflow systems or SaneBox support better task and email management. Tracking metrics such as conversion rates and lead quality ensures informed, data-driven decisions.

“Being authentic is the easiest, fastest, most profitable way for you to get to the outcome that you desire.” —  Allison Williams
 

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
 

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
 

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/
 

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
 

About Allison Williams: Allison C. Williams is the owner of not one, but two multimillion-dollar companies. She is the Founder of Williams Law Group, a full-service family law firm where she is a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, is certified by the New Jersey Supreme Court as a Matrimonial Law Attorney, and is certified by the National Board of Trial Advocacy in Family Law. After taking Williams Law Group from a start-up to a multimillion-dollar law business in 3.5 years, she decided to help other law firm owners do the same by starting Law Firm Mentor. Today, Law Firm Mentor helps law firm owners across the country grow their revenues, crush chaos in business, and make significantly more money in less time!

Allison is a LawFirm500 award winner, ranking 14th out of the fastest-growing law firms in the nation. She has also been named a Stevie Award Finalist for Female Entrepreneur of the Year in 2017 and 2018, voted NJBIZ’s Top 50 Women in Business, and designated as one of the Top 25 Leading Women Entrepreneurs and Business Owners.

Allison has been featured in The Law Entrepreneur, Above the Law, and Modern Solo, along with other leading legal publications. She is also the host of the Law Firm Mentor podcast, where lawyers go to learn how to crush the chaos in their business.
 

Connect with Allison Williams: 

Website: https://lawfirmmentor.net/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisoncwilliams/  
 

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Danielle Hendon discuss:

• Embracing perseverance
• Shifting mindsets for sustainability
• Transitioning toward flat fee models
• Balancing finances for growth

Key Takeaways:

• Perseverance shapes long-term success by turning setbacks into momentum rather than defeat. Continuing the work is what separates progress from failure. Stopping, not struggling, is the only real loss.
• Firms thrive when they prioritize profitability and long-term health, ensuring they can keep serving clients with excellence. This mindset shift strengthens stability. It helps legal teams build a practice that lasts.
• Moving from billable hours to flat fees boosts efficiency, scale, and client trust when managed with clarity and intention. Careful rollout keeps expectations aligned. The shift can transform the client experience.
• Monitoring vital metrics like the rule of thirds helps maintain healthy revenue distribution and protects profitability. This supports passion projects and pro bono work. Clients benefit from transparency and lower stress.

"You are never a failure until you stop trying. Everything is an opportunity to win and move forward. You haven't failed until you stop persevering. When you've given up, that's failure." —  Danielle Hendon

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Danielle Hendon: Danielle Hendon is the Founder and CEO of 4 Corners CFO, where she helps small business owners make smart financial decisions. She has over a decade of experience in corporate finance and accounting, and once led an audit team through a corporate bankruptcy.

Danielle believes that financial statements tell a story, not just numbers—and that entrepreneurs should be empowered to write their own chapters. She started 4 Corners CFO to give business owners clarity and confidence so they can build profitable and sustainable legacies.

Before her finance career, she studied music. Today, she draws on that creativity to bring both discipline and vision to her work. At the heart of it all, Danielle is a mom—and her children inspire her daily to do work that matters.
 

Connect with Danielle Hendon: 

Website: https://4cornerscfo.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-hendon/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Tim Semelroth, Casey Grabenstein, and Neil Dishman discuss:

• Treating business development as essential
• Using systems and empowering teams
• Building a culture of growth
• Learning through resilience and honesty

Key Takeaways:

• Integrating business development into daily routines and tracking it like billable work ensures steady growth. Making it non-negotiable builds consistency and prevents unpredictable cycles.
• Leveraging CRM tools, spreadsheets, and point systems keeps outreach organized and accountable. Involving junior lawyers in relationships and strategy builds future rainmakers.
• Firms that reward, support, and normalize business development create sustainable success. Encouragement at every level strengthens engagement and results.
• Focusing on process over outcome turns setbacks into lessons and maintains momentum. Honest communication and reflection foster better relationships and continuous improvement.

"For me, making myself feel satisfied that I’ve put in enough in that week to get good results, and then not worrying about whether the results come in… Try to stop worrying about the results and focus on the process is the best that I can do." —  Casey Grabenstein

Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.

Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/

Thank you to our Sponsor!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

HireParalegals: https://hireparalegals.com/

Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/

About Tim Semelroth: Tim Semelroth is Iowa’s only board-certified truck accident attorney and a partner at RSH Legal. With over 25 years of experience, he provides trusted expertise in trucking litigation and collaborates with attorneys statewide and beyond. Known for his strategic approach and commitment to fairness, Tim offers consultation to help chart the best course for complex truck accident cases.

Connect with Tim Semelroth: 

Website: https://www.timsemelroth.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsemelroth/

About Casey Grabenstein: Casey Grabenstein is a litigation partner at Saul Ewing LLP, handling complex commercial disputes and class actions involving securities, consumer fraud, and ERISA. He also advises clients in the cannabis and litigation funding industries, serving as both due diligence and primary counsel. A frequent writer and speaker, Casey brings deep insight into emerging issues in litigation finance and commercial law.

Connect with Casey Grabenstein: 

Website: https://www.saul.com/professionals/casey-grabenstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-grabenstein-a375094/

About Neil H. Dishman: Neil H. Dishman is a principal at Jackson Lewis P.C. in Chicago, where he helps employers prevent and resolve workplace disputes. His practice spans discrimination, retaliation, and wage-hour compliance, with extensive experience across multiple industries. A sought-after speaker and published author, Neil is known for his practical guidance on employment law and risk management.

Connect with Neil H. Dishman: 

Website: https://www.jacksonlewis.com/people/neil-h-dishman

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsemelroth/

Email: Neil.Dishman@jacksonlewis.com

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.