Proof is what GTM leaders need to make fast and furious decisions that keep their businesses alive and thriving.
The Proof Point hosts conversations anchored in the reality of day-to-day life as a revenue leader. No algorithm-hacking, talk-track headlining buzz statements around here. We’re hosting conversations between GTM leaders so we can gather the facts and provide you with the tactics and tools you need to bulletproof your strategy.
Join host Mark Huber every other week as he invites the best GTM leaders into the conversation.
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Bitly’s CMO, Tara Robertson, shares her customer-centric playbook for transforming Bitly from a link shortener to a full connections platform. From leveraging QR codes to merging physical and digital experiences to using customer evidence, Tara explains how Bitly’s retention-focused marketing impacts every user touchpoint. This episode shares insights on building authentic customer connections while highlighting the metrics that matter in the B2B landscape.
Things to listen for:
(00:00) Introduction
(01:15) Tara’s journey from Sprout Social to Bitly
(03:02) Building a customer marketing playbook at Sprout
(04:27) Measuring retention and adoption with sub-KPIs
(06:37) Bitly’s new direction
(07:54) QR codes to 2D barcodes
(09:39) Expanding Bitly’s target market - SMBs to enterprise
(11:29) Showcasing use cases to support varied customers
(13:24) Using customer stories to build trust
(17:02) Overcoming challenges in gathering authentic evidence
Learn more about the customer evidence platform that B2B teams at Gong, HackerOne, Sendoso, and more trust at userevidence.com
The brand crisis that’s lengthening your sales cycle
Episode 20
Wednesday, October 30, 2024 • Duration 49:47
The TL;DR
Are you struggling to build trust with your buyers? Allyson Havener (TrustRadius) and Mark Huber (UserEvidence) break down the B2B buying disconnect between buyers and marketing and sales efforts—including some helpful tips to apply to your own marketing strategy to help close that gap.
What’s working in B2B marketing: DATA-BACKED PROOF Original research and transparent data are key to building credibility and trust with skeptical buyers who are demanding upfront pricing and product claims before purchasing.
What’s not working in B2B marketing: SUGAR-COATED "PROOF" Focusing too much on traditional bottom-funnel tactics without addressing what buyers genuinely want reduces trust and transparency. Pushing overly optimistic marketing narratives without real proof causes buyer mistrust. (And can ultimately lead to decision-making paralysis.)
Address the disconnect between B2B buyers and sellers: There’s a significant gap between what buyers want and how sellers and marketers approach them. Buyers prioritize upfront pricing, peer reviews, and minimal sales pressure, while vendors often overlook these preferences.
Trust is critical in the sales process: B2B buyers are skeptical, especially with the influx of tech options. Transparent communication, real customer evidence, and accurate ROI data is crucial to overcoming buyer hesitation.
Original research fuels effective marketing strategies: Both TrustRadius and UserEvidence used their research reports as the cornerstone for content creation, social proof, and marketing messaging—illustrating how data-driven insights can shape a year’s worth of marketing materials.
Brand trust is key in narrowing choices: Buyers typically start their search with 2-3 potential vendors and often stick with their original choice, underscoring the importance of establishing brand trust early in the buyer’s journey.
Churn is a company problem, not a customer success problem
Episode 10
Wednesday, June 26, 2024 • Duration 51:49
The TL;DR
Are you tired of battling churn and struggling to retain customers?
Today, Sy Pendergast (Goldcast), Lauren Alt Kishpaugh (Pendo), and Myles Bradwell (UserEvidence) get real about what actually causes customers to churn and break the myth that churn is just a Customer Success problem.
What’s working in B2B marketing:
COLLABORATIVE CUSTOMER SUCCESS STRATEGIES
Bridge the gap between Marketing and Customer Success. Discover how leveraging positive customer stories and refining your ICP can drastically reduce churn. Collaboration is key—unite your teams to drive real, impactful results.
What’s not working in B2B marketing:
OPERATING IN SILOS
Ditch the isolated approach. It’s time to bring Marketing, Sales, and Customer Success together. When teams work in harmony, you understand customer needs better and provide value that keeps them coming back.
The key takeaways
Align Marketing and Customer Success: Break down silos between Marketing and Customer Success to ensure a unified approach to customer retention and expansion. Collaboration drives better results and creates a better experience for the customer.
Understand the real causes of churn: Churn isn't just a Customer Success issue. Factors like product fit, pricing, and timing play crucial roles. To minimize churn, make sure your product is the right fit at the right price and time.
Focus on leading indicators: Regularly review leading indicators like weekly active users or assets produced to measure the effectiveness of your retention strategies. This helps identify issues early and allows for timely adjustments.
What’s wrong with Calendly’s homepage?
Episode 9
Wednesday, June 12, 2024 • Duration 49:08
The TL;DR
Is your homepage sending the right message?
Robert Kaminski (Fletch) didn’t think so about Calendly and respectfully called them out on LinkedIn. Jeff Hardison, Calendly’s Head of Product Marketing, defended himself in the comment section. We invited them onto the show to continue the debate.
What’s working in B2B marketing:
MATCHING YOUR HOMEPAGE TO YOUR AUDIENCE
Let's be real—your homepage isn't just prime real estate; it's the front line of your marketing battlefield. In a world where most B2B SaaS homepages look alike, the ones hitting the mark are specifically tailored to an audience and what they’re looking for.
What’s not working in B2B marketing:
SELLING THE BENEFITS
Marketers and salespeople, especially in B2B SaaS, are over-indexing on this concept of selling the outcomes. While it has a lot of merit, it might not be the right message. Instead, we're putting too much emphasis on what closes the deal and forgetting about why someone came to the homepage in the first place.
The key takeaways
Messaging for business outcomes: Move beyond product features. Focus on the tangible impact on the business.
Homepage strategy: Don’t be misleading. Make sure your homepage communicates clearly who you’re for, and how’ll they’ll benefit.
Balancing PLG and Sales-led motions: Balance minimalism and compelling narratives to drive freemium adoption and bigger deals.
The things to listen for:
[00:00] Intro
[05:12] Creating a separate storytelling mechanism for Calendly
[13:22] Motivating stakeholders and measuring success
[20:30] Balancing product-led and sales-led marketing
How to write stories your sales team will actually use
Episode 8
Wednesday, May 29, 2024 • Duration 44:49
The TL;DR
Are you sick of spinning average products into marketing magic? Do you feel like a “poo polisher” as April calls it?
Today, April Dunford (Ambient Strategy), Kyle Lacy (Jellyfish), and Marcus Andrews (Pendo.io) dive into storytelling and how to write stories your sales team will actually use.
What’s working in B2B marketing:
TAILOR-MADE, ENTHRALLING STORYTELLING
Draw in your prospects with a compelling narrative that screams relevance. Skip the generic fluff. Dive deep into the psyche of your customer. Make them the hero of your story.
What’s not working in B2B marketing:
WRITING BY COMMITTEE
Chuck out the too-many-cooks approach. Embrace a dedicated "words person." Quality trumps quantity, always. When storytelling is focused and centralized, your message not only resonates—it reverberates.
The key takeaways:
The importance of positioning: Effective marketing starts with strong positioning. Understanding your competition, unique value proposition, and ideal customer fit are crucial for creating compelling stories and pitches.
Tailored storytelling: Craft customized, engaging stories that resonate with your audience. Skip the generic fluff and make your prospects the heroes.
Adaptability and regular review: To stay relevant and effective, regularly revisit and update your positioning and storytelling based on market changes, competitor actions, and customer feedback.
Internal alignment and buy-in: Ensure alignment across your organization, especially with sales leaders. Their buy-in is crucial for successful implementation and consistency in messaging. Engage executives early in the storytelling process to secure their support.
Where to focus your messaging: features vs. benefits vs. outcomes
Episode 7
Wednesday, May 15, 2024 • Duration 49:08
The TL;DR
Features, benefits, or outcomes - where should your marketing strategy zoom in? With a sea of opinions out there, here's the lowdown from some folks who really know their stuff.
CONVERSATIONAL, CRYSTAL CLEAR MESSAGING Speak plainly, or you might as well speak alien. Keep it simple, keep it straight, and watch visitors turn into leads.
What’s not working in B2B marketing:
MIMICKING THE GIANTS
Find strength in your niche market. When it comes to start-ups; narrow & deep will outdo wide & shallow.
The key takeaways:
Tailor your messaging to the audience's pain points: Understand and directly address the specific problems that your target audience is facing. Mirroring customers' pain in messaging helps build trust and understanding. Using visual aids and credible niche targeting to resonate with risk-averse buyers is extremely effective.
Contextualize everything based on where your buyers are: This is the technology adoption lifecycle curve comes in handy. Messaging should be customized to appeal to different groups, from early adopters who might prefer customizable solutions to the late majority looking for pre-built, low-risk options.
Humanize your message: The "barbecue exercise," a strategy to strip away jargon to create a human-oriented, relatable message can significantly differentiate a company from competitors who rely on dry, indistinct language.
Are you doing enough research?
Episode 6
Wednesday, May 1, 2024 • Duration 44:00
The TL;DR
Today, we're all about research—audiences, customers, markets, you name it. No fluff, just the raw truth.
Amanda Natividad (SparkToro), MJ Smith (CoLab), and Evan Huck (UserEvidence) talk about research (or lack thereof) for many B2B companies.
What’s working in B2B marketing:
CREATIVITY + CUSTOMER INSIGHT
Research needs to validate creative ideas. Hear how these three avoid marketing myopia.
What’s not working in B2B marketing:
INCONSISTENT RESEARCH Research isn’t a one-off activity. Don’t fall victim to the trap of institutional knowledge.
The key takeaways:
Understand the full scope of audience influences: B2B marketers should move beyond simple demography and firmographics to include the broader context of what influences their audience, including peers, competitors, and societal trends.
Blend creativity with customer insight: Although creativity is vital for differentiating your brand and marketing efforts, it needs to be backed by solid customer insights. B2B marketers should leverage research to validate creative ideas, ensuring they are addressing the real needs and challenges of their customers.
Utilize a mix of research methods: A combination of quantitative data and qualitative insights is crucial for a well-rounded understanding of your customers. Advances in technology are enabling richer qualitative insights at scale, but marketers must also look for the non-obvious insights that come from in-depth, tailored research conversations.
Consistent research is key: Research is a continuous process. B2B marketers need to stay on top of changes in customer behavior, industry trends, and underlying motivations by making research an ongoing practice.
: In many organizations, customer feedback becomes siloed within certain departments. B2B marketers should advocate for democratized access to customer feedback across the organization to allow for diverse perspectives and to gain a broader understanding of customer needs and challenges.
Why most revenue models fail (and how to make yours better)
Episode 5
Wednesday, April 17, 2024 • Duration 38:48
What's the secret sauce for a killer revenue game plan?
Join Mark and the squad—Emily Kramer (MKT1), Adam Goyette (Growth Union), and Jeff Ignacio (Regrow Ag)—as they spill the tea on crafting killer strategic revenue blueprints. They're not just talking shop; they're revolutionizing how we think about growth.
What’s working in revenue models:
ALIGNMENT IS KEY
Clear team goals aligned with company objectives create ownership. Big takeaway for revenue growth models - alignment is key.
What’s not working in revenue models:
POOR PLANNING PROCESSES
Planning meetings? More like blame games and snoozefests, where real strategy talk gets swapped for box-ticking. They're the reason solid plans and forecasts are MIA—everyone's too busy fighting over credit. It's a team effort, not a solo show.
The key takeaways:
Align goals with team ownership: B2B marketers should set clear goals and ensure that each team member feels a sense of ownership toward those goals. Doing so aligns projects with the business's overall objectives and drives team members to work effectively towards common targets.
Embrace full-funnel reporting: Marketers must adopt comprehensive planning and reporting practices, looking at the full marketing funnel rather than just top-level metrics. This full-funnel approach enables a better understanding of campaign effectiveness and customer journey, ultimately driving smarter investment decisions and growth.
Practice realistic, detailed revenue forecasting: Instead of relying on optimistic assumptions or linear growth models, B2B marketers need to create detailed revenue models. These should include specific forecasts for various marketing channels and account for seasonality, market changes, and potential diminishing returns to set realistic growth expectations.
Foster cross-functional collaboration: B2B marketing teams should work closely with sales, finance, product, and customer service teams to ensure alignment and consistent messaging. This collaboration is critical for setting honest and mutually beneficial goals, ensuring foundational reporting, and executing strategic plans successfully.
What does ‘ICP fit’ actually mean?
Episode 4
Wednesday, April 3, 2024 • Duration 44:22
Adam Schoenfeld woke up and chose violence with his hot take on this one.
Adam (Keyplay) joins Trinity Nguyen (UserGems) and Jarod Greene (Vivun) to dig into some of the most common misconceptions around TAM, ICP, and ID’ing fit.
What’s working when defining your ICP:
LET DATA LEAD THE WAY Set it up in your CRM. Track your customers. What’s changed? Who’s churned? Why? Is our hypothesis for who’s a fit actually our best fit?
What’s not working when defining your ICP: OBSESSION OVER INTENT SIGNALS Fit > intent. For real.
Key Takeaways:
Importance of a Defined ICP: Precisely defining the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is crucial. Adam Schoenfeld stresses the need to establish clear parameters around the ICP to ensure sales and marketing efforts are aligned and focused. Trinity Nguyen's approach of regularly revisiting the ICP at User Gems illustrates the dynamic nature of ICPs and how companies must adapt to shifts in customer fit and market trends.
Patience with Strategy Implementation: Give new strategies time to take effect before making changes. Trinity Nguyen points out that particularly in a commercial SaaS context, it's important to allow time for the market to absorb and react to advertising efforts. The pitfall of frequently changing ICPs can be counterproductive and may not provide sufficient data on what works and what doesn’t.
Utilization of Multi-Source Feedback: Utilize both wins and losses to refine your ICP. Jarod Greene's insights into Vivint's process of refining their ICP by considering various attributes signal the importance of using diverse feedback channels. This informs a more strategic and adaptable approach to targeting customers.
Alignment Across Teams: Ensure alignment across all teams regarding the ICP. The importance of keeping sales, marketing, product development, and customer success teams on the same page regarding the ICP cannot be overstated. This unity ensures a cohesive go-to-market strategy and ensures that all customer-facing teams are targeting and supporting the same customer profile.
Why hasn’t the B2B sales playbook changed?
Episode 3
Wednesday, March 20, 2024 • Duration 51:45
B2B buying has evolved almost overnight…so why is B2B selling still running the same plays?
Nate Nasralla (Fluint), Rachel Shi (Metadata), and Mark Kosoglow (Catalyst Software) share their theories on why the sales playbooks in 2024 are still lagging, and the ways they’re changing the game within their own organizations.
What’s working in B2B selling:
GOING BEYOND SALES TRAINING Kobe took tap dancing lessons to strengthen his ankles. Arnold Schwarzenegger took ballet lessons to learn how to pose onstage. Going outside of your discipline gives you a better perspective and helps break tired plays.
What’s not working in B2B selling TRADITIONAL DISCOVERY CALLS ”Hey, what are the 3 biggest problems you’re facing right now?” - ask that, and your prospect is already zoned out. It’s time to find new tactics that will engage and impress as a first impression.
Key Takeaways:
Tailor Your Training: Rachel Shi underscored the importance of moving away from a one-size-fits-all model of sales training to a more tailored approach that addresses the nuances of B2B SaaS. B2B marketers should assess the specific needs of their sales team and customize their training programs to improve effectiveness.
Speak Your Buyer's Language: Rachel, Nate Nasralla, and Mark Kosoglow emphasized the significance of understanding and using the buyer's language within business cases and sales conversations. Marketers should ensure that sales tools and materials resonate with their target audience by aligning them with the buyer's internal terminology and perspective.
The Power of Polarizing Questions: The guest panel discussed the strategic approach of using polarizing questions early in the sales process to identify qualified prospects and position solutions effectively. Marketers should consider developing materials that assist the sales team in deploying these questions to uncover key customer pain points and motivations.
: Nate highlighted that empathic accuracy is imperative for building genuine sales relationships, but it's often lacking. Marketers must foster an empathetic understanding of their potential buyers to craft campaigns and messaging that resonate on a human level.
Align marketing and sales for deal acceleration: In complex B2B sales, particularly with large enterprises, aligning sales and marketing strategies is essential to shorten the sales cycle and ensure consistent messaging across all touchpoints.
Things to listen for: (00:00) Welcome to the show (01:20) How data fuels marketing strategies (06:22) The B2B brand trust crisis (07:57) Disconnect between buyer expectations and vendors (10:33) Buyers, sellers, marketers are not on same page (12:20) Buyers’ demand for upfront pricing, not secrecy (13:29) Buyer preference: Peer reviews over pushy sales (23:13) Why do buyers stick with original vendor choice?
Leverage positive customer stories: Use success stories from your current customers to build trust and credibility. Highlighting these stories can help you retain existing customers and attract new ones.
Continuous feedback loop: Establish a continuous feedback loop between Sales, Marketing, and Customer Success. Regular communication helps identify and solve issues early, ensuring all teams are aligned and working towards common goals.
The things to listen for
[00:00] - Intro to churn and retention
[02:20] - Marketing and Customer Success misalignment issues
[08:19] - Causes of churn in the B2B SaaS world
[14:25] - Sales' role in preventing churn
[18:28] - Using Customer Success data for Marketing
[24:03] - Collaboration across departments
[31:48] - Importance of net retention rate (NRR)
[38:52] - Real-time customer feedback loop
[43:36] - Aligning Marketing with customer needs
[49:53] - The future of Marketing and Customer Success
[34:42] Maintaining a product-led growth strategy
[40:58] Aligning marketing message with business goals
Measuring effectiveness: Use both quantitative metrics (conversion rates, deal sizes) and qualitative feedback (customer reactions, sales team input) to measure the effectiveness of your storytelling.
The things to listen for:
[00:00] Intro
[02:02] "Polishing the poo" in marketing
[05:23] Challenges of corporate messaging and writing by committee
[09:42] Value proposition and its importance in storytelling
[12:04] Who owns the story in B2B marketing?
[16:38] Importance of differentiated value
[19:56] Revisiting and regularly updating positioning
[24:48] Adapting messaging to market changes
[26:29] Getting internal buy-in on storytelling
[28:53] Testing and iterating on new pitches
[34:36] Aligning sales and marketing teams with effective messaging
[39:12] Measuring the effectiveness of your story
Balance outcome and feature-driven messaging: While many believe that leading with outcomes is the most effective, focusing on the "what" and "how" makes messaging more memorable and effective. Send a balanced message that appeals to the intelligence of sophisticated buyers yet remains specific and tangible.
Niche-ing down can lead to bigger opportunities: Achieving relevance often means excluding a larger part of the market to focus on a specific niche. A focus on a niche market, like Tesla, led to significantly larger opportunities, a key strategy, especially for early-stage startups. This reinforces the power and potential of targeting and growing from a narrowly defined market.
The things to listen for:
[00:00] Intro
[10:30] Be specific and differentiate in crowded markets
[15:35] People need a branding agency for tech
[18:24] Effective sales messaging focuses on customer pain
[25:09] Focusing on sales is challenging in this economic climate
[26:57] Product expansion leads to strategic complexity and stress
[30:37] Create content, target niche, reduce risks, and find success
[35:11] Startups can succeed by owning niche markets
[37:32] Use provocative messaging to engage pragmatist buyers
[45:19] Avoid dry business speak & write conversationally
[46:12] Encourage natural communication & simplify complex jargon
[49:43] Jargon's value in specific contexts
Democratize access to customer feedback
The things to listen for:
00:00 Intro
05:27 Frequent research ensures institutional knowledge remains accurate
19:22 B2B marketing relies on assumptions, which are often boring
20:15 Identify the correct target for potential sales
26:12 Use cross-functional customer engagement for better insights
27:14 Scarcity of customer feedback presents challenges for companies
34:20 AI-driven insights
37:35 Summarizing caller data to identify recurring pain points
42:10 Acquisition brought strategic MBAs, but lacked practicality
43:00 Closing
Adapt to change with flexible planning: High turnover rates, unexpected market trends, and other challenges affect business operations. Marketers need to maintain flexibility in their revenue models and business plans, including ranges that allow for unexpected changes and continuous monitoring with feedback loops to make adjustments as necessary.
The things to listen for:
[00:00] Focusing on driving revenue
[03:17] Frustration with unproductive and contentious work meetings
[07:40 The high-stakes game of hiring and budgets
[10:56] Revenue models require detailed channel forecasts and planning
[17:41] Plan early with the top-down and bottom-up approach
[21:13] Honesty & reporting are key for planning success
[31:04] Organized planning processes are vital for successful businesses
[34:49] Team ownership of goals, accountability, and responsibility
[36:44] Tying the project list back to your goal
[39:56] Grateful for learning and open to follow-up
Focus on Fit Over Intent: Fit should be a priority over intent signals. While intent data platforms can suggest potential customer interest, understanding whether a lead truly fits the ICP is more valuable. The episode discusses the tendency of B2B marketers to over-prioritize intent signals, yet the panel agrees that a deeper understanding of the customer—including their challenges and fit within the ICP—is essential for effective marketing strategies.
Things to Listen for:
00:00 Deeply understand customers for building ideal profiles. 05:02 Focus on serving the best customers effectively. 09:46 Tracking customer criteria, part of company DNA. 12:48 Learning to navigate variance for business success. 15:07 Set boundaries, focus on strategic growth mindset. 17:26 Challenges in using limited historical data explained. 20:36 No's and not nows provide valuable insight. 25:25 Rely on accurate CRM data for sales. 27:27 Listening to gong recordings for sales improvement. 30:59 Implement strategy into operations, test and analyze. 34:05 Companies expand product offerings due to complexity. 38:23 Champion needs to handle objections, targeted messaging. 42:17 Team enjoys memes, aims for brand recognition.
Prioritizing Empathy and Relationships
Embrace the Deeper Discovery: Nate and Mark discussed the importance of engaging buyers with deep, pattern-breaking questions. Marketers should go beyond surface-level insights and leverage storytelling and illustrative examples in their strategies to provoke thoughtful buyer engagement and uncover the true drivers of purchase decisions.
00:00 Sales reps trained poorly in industrialized model. 05:11 Building relationships requires understanding and empathic accuracy. 08:58 Reps need mindset shift for effective sales. 11:50 Rachel, do you do commission pieces? Summary: Discussion about sales and diversity in selling. 15:24 Evaluating mental effort and fatigue throughout the day. 18:38 System two thinking in complex deal dynamics. 21:01 Engage individually, personalize outreach and follow-ups. 26:13 Building business cases requires deep discovery conversations. 29:59 Emphasize positioning, change, and asking effective questions. 33:47 Clarify objections, redo role play to assess. 36:45 Applicants share unique opinions and personal projects. 40:32 Using written content helps shave sales time. 41:26 Creating message together, internalized value in writing. 45:26 Diving deep into buyer's language for solutions. 48:29 Remember seeing Rachel's old business case. 51:34 "Thanks for having us, of course."
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