The Messy Middle Matters – Details, episodes & analysis

The way we define and communicate ideas—whether through common language, acronyms, or company-specific terms—shapes how we work together. Without a shared vocabulary, teams risk misalignment, confusion, and even chaos.

In this episode, we explore why shared understanding is foundational to navigating the messy middle. We’ll dig deeper into what the messy middle really means and why it deserves an entire podcast. When we can name and define the challenges we face, we gain the clarity needed to move forward—together.

Join us as we unpack the power of language, alignment, and shared meaning in the moments that matter most.

Useful Links:

• Words Matter Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com/collections/words-matter 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

The messy middle—it’s that chaotic, uncertain, sometimes frustrating space between where you started and where you want to be. It’s the part of the journey that rarely makes it into the highlight reel, but it’s where the real work happens.

In this first episode, we introduce The Messy Middle Matters and why this often-overlooked stage of work and life deserves more attention. We’ll share our experiences navigating the messy middle, what draws us to these conversations, and who we hope to highlight.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or like you’re in the thick of it with no clear way forward—this podcast is for you. Welcome to The Messy Middle Matters. Let’s dig in.

Some work is easy to measure—deadlines met, projects delivered, goals achieved. But what about the work that holds everything together?

In this episode, Indra and Amanda discuss their journey of recognizing Glue Work, the often invisible tasks that keep teams functioning but rarely get acknowledged. They share how naming this work was a crucial first step and explore strategies to make it visible, valued, and recognized as a part of career growth.

This is just the beginning of a much bigger conversation, because no one should have to choose between doing the work that keeps teams thriving and advancing in their careers.

Helpful Links

• For more about the Glue Work Framework, including upcoming webinars: www.thegluework.com or https://www.peopleprocessthings.com/glue-work 
• Indra's latest blog post about the Glue Work Framework: https://medium.com/@indrapendence/making-the-invisible-work-count-1f7dcb9f794c
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for Indra & Amanda:  www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

Impostor syndrome is often framed as an internal struggle, but what if the real issue isn’t impostor syndrome, but something else?

In this episode, Indra and Amanda explore the fine line between impostor syndrome and the discomfort of learning something new. 

They also share a real-life workplace experience where they initially thought they were battling self-doubt—only to uncover a deeper, systemic issue at play. They walk through how they gathered the right people, documented the challenge, and ultimately realized the problem wasn’t what it seemed. 

Join us as we discuss the power of reframing workplace struggles and why caring for the collective leads to better outcomes for everyone.

Things mentioned in our episode:

• Glossary of Terms
• It's Great to Suck at Surfing
• Feedback

Indra reflects on her podcast journey over the past year, sharing successes, challenges, and personal growth. She discusses the evolution of her podcast, technological hurdles, and how the experience has transformed her confidence and voice.

 Takeaways

• Consistency in content creation builds confidence.
• Technological hurdles are significant but manageable.
• Reflecting on progress reveals areas of growth and improvement.
• Feedback from listeners is vital for motivation and direction.

More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com  
• The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com 
• Podbean Podcast Hosting - https://www.podbean.com/messymiddle 

Keywords

podcast journey, personal growth, technology challenges, self-confidence, retrospective, podcasting tips

Chapters

00:00 Reflecting on Season One

03:09 What Went Well: Celebrating Successes

06:04 Challenges Faced: Technology and Consistency

09:06 Personal Growth: Finding Confidence Through Podcasting

11:55 Looking Ahead: Future of the Podcast

12:40 Outro + Post-roll - Like and Subscribe

In this episode, Indra and Ana Fabiano explore the intricate journey of Ana's career in the wine industry, her deep connection to the Rioja region, and the launch of her new venture, Rioja Holistic Home. They discuss the importance of passion, authenticity, and building trust with craftspeople, especially in a traditionally male-dominated industry. The conversation highlights the shift towards sustainability and intentional living, emphasizing the value of community and patience in navigating the 'messy middle' of personal and professional growth.

Takeaways

• Let your passion guide you in your career.
• Authenticity is crucial in building connections.
• Rioja represents more than just wine; it's a cultural experience.
• Building trust with craftspeople requires respect and dedication.
• The wine industry is becoming more inclusive of women.
• Intentional living can enhance well-being and connection.
• Sustainability is a growing focus in consumer choices.
• The messy middle is a vital part of any journey.
• Patience is essential when navigating challenges.
• Community support is key to success in business.

More from Ana Fabiano

• Rioja Holistic Home on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riojaholistichome/ 
• Ana’s Book: https://www.anafabiano.com/riojabook 
• Ana’s  Website: https://www.anafabiano.com/ 
• Ana’s on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anafabianorioja 
• Ana Fabiano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anafabiano/ 

More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com  
• The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com

Keywords

career paths, authenticity, Rioja, wine industry, craftspeople, sustainability, holistic living, intentionality, women in business, personal growth

Starting a new role can feel overwhelming, even when you know the basics—logging in, getting paid, finding the coffee. In this episode, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee go beyond standard onboarding advice to explore how to truly set yourself up for success in your first 90 days.

They discuss the importance of asking foundational questions, building your own organizational maps, decoding internal vocabulary, and taking a listening-first approach to understand culture and team dynamics. From strategic one-on-ones to creating your own “maps” of reporting structures and workflows, this episode is full of practical tips for making meaningful first impressions, establishing your brand, and navigating both in-person and remote environments.

Whether you’re joining a hyper-growth startup, a large enterprise, or a cross-functional team, this conversation equips you with tools to orient yourself, gather context, and thrive in the messy middle of a new role.

Useful Links

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary  
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

In this conversation, Amanda Jane Lee discusses the innovative use of AI in self-discovery and career guidance. She emphasizes how AI can assist individuals in identifying their strengths and preferences through targeted questioning, making the process of career exploration more efficient and personalized.

Takeaways

• AI can help identify personal strengths and preferences.
• Mind mapping software is a useful tool in self-discovery.
• Asking the right questions is crucial for self-exploration.
• AI can generate questions to guide personal discovery.
• Understanding green flags is important in career choices.
• Self-discovery can be enhanced through technology.
• AI can streamline the process of finding suitable roles.
• Personalized guidance can lead to better career decisions.
• The role of AI in career exploration is growing.
• Embracing technology can aid in personal development.

Useful Links

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary  
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

This conversation delves into the complexities of transitioning into leadership roles, emphasizing the emotional and practical challenges faced by new managers. Indra K and Laura Lillie Goodridge explore the jarring shift from individual contributor to manager, the importance of self-awareness, and the need for effective communication and feedback. They discuss the lack of support many organizations provide for new leaders and the significance of finding the right coaching and resources to navigate this transition successfully. The dialogue highlights the evolving nature of leadership in today's workplace, advocating for a more empathetic and self-aware approach to management.

Takeaways

• Transitioning to leadership is a significant emotional and practical shift.
• New managers often feel isolated from their previous peer relationships.
• Organizations frequently lack adequate support for new leaders.
• Effective communication is crucial for setting expectations and managing teams.
• Feedback should be a two-way street, involving both giving and receiving.
• Self-discovery is essential for understanding one's leadership style.
• Coaching can provide valuable external perspectives for new leaders.
• Understanding company leadership styles is vital for alignment.
• New managers should focus on fundamental skills before reshaping their identity.
• The landscape of leadership is evolving towards a more empathetic approach.

Useful Links

• Laura on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-manager-coach/
• Laura on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_manager_coach/
• Laura’s website: https://www.lauralilliecoaching.com/
• Laura’s resources for new managers: https://www.lauralilliecoaching.com/managers-resources
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary  
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

In this conversation, Mikki and Indra explore the complexities of navigating career changes and the profound shifts in identity that accompany them. They discuss the importance of humility, community support, and vulnerability during transitions, emphasizing the need to redefine one's identity and align actions with personal values. The dialogue highlights the significance of small impacts and the ripples they create within communities, encouraging listeners to embrace change and seek connection.

Takeaways

• The job market is unpredictable, leading to frequent career changes.
• Identity can shift significantly when changing roles or companies.
• Experiential design and community engagement can be fulfilling career paths.
• Humility is essential when starting anew in a different field.
• Community support plays a crucial role during transitions.
• Vulnerability can lead to deeper connections and support.
• Redefining one's identity is a journey that requires self-reflection.
• Embracing change can lead to personal growth and new opportunities.
• It's important to align actions with personal values.
• Every small impact can create ripples in the community.

Useful Links

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary  
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• Mikki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micaelahoffman/ 
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/