The Culture Gap – Details, episodes & analysis

Join Daniel for a new podcast: Imagine What's Next. IWN launches on March 30th, and you can find it wherever you listen to podcasts.

IWN explores the mindsets, methods, and skills that leaders and product managers must employ to think long-term--also known as vision and strategic foresight. Ignoring the future and the confluence of trends, risks, opportunities, technologies, and systemic challenges coming at your organization produces blind spots that force reactive thinking and strategies. Join host Daniel Forrester, an author, entrepreneur, trusted advisor to CEOs, and massive open online course instructor through the University of Maryland, as he interviews leading strategists, futurists, CEOs, foresight experts, economists, psychologists, and authors from around the world. Daniel takes listeners far away from the tyranny of innovation-stifling “short-termism” as he unveils the art and science behind discovering the “big ideas” that inspire employees and stakeholders.

In this episode of The Culture Gap, Daniel talks about the intersection of high-performing companies and healthy culture, whether companies can overcome the negative impact of poor leaders, and the value of working through the difficulties within a company to create a stronger culture. Daniel also offers insights into the cultural differences between the Midwest and Alaska, where he splits his time. Welcome to Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Daniel Coyle.

[2:39] How did Daniel Coyle become Daniel Coyle?

[5:53] Uncovering the energy that drives culture.

[6:26] What is Daniel’s working definition of the word “culture”?

[9:10] What is the connection between a high-performing, healthy culture and the performance of a firm?

[15:06] Key takeaways from examples of toxic company culture.

[20:20] The role of “we” versus “I” — and pausing — in a healthy company culture.

[24:29] Does the company culture have the potential to outperform the positive or negative performance of its leadership team?

[28:57] Should companies hire for culture fits or culture adds?

[32:51] Daniel’s advice for the challenges of culture activation.

[38:14] Daniel explains Tip #23, Kill the Happy, Smoothness Fallacy.

[42:22] How to approach ESG in a healthy work environment.

The Culture Gap Podcast

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Learn more about:

Daniel Coyle

Daniel Coyle on LinkedIn

Daniel Coyle on Twitter

David Mead is an Igniter with and is tied to one of the great minds of our time in the world of culture, purpose, mission — Simon Sinek and his company. David is globally recognized as the How guy to Simon’s Why, and co-authored Find Your Why. He also has years of practical experience working with organizations in different roles and uses this expertise in his current position to help other companies discover and articulate their ‘why.’

In the second of this two-part episode of The Culture Gap, David and Daniel expand the conversation beyond just the purpose and why of an organization. David puts culture into context, relating it to vision and values, and explains why the CEO plays a critical role in driving that vision. David also makes the case for culture change driven by the CEO and shares his thoughts on how people across different generations and countries value purpose. Tune in also for a sneak peek into Simon Sinek’s new book, The Infinite Game. Welcome to Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — David Mead.

[1:35] What is the difference between a ‘why’ and a vision?

[3:26] David shares the distinction between purpose and vision with the example of his company, Start with Why.

[4:57] It can be very difficult for people to make the leap from mission to vision in a single day. What are David’s thoughts on this, and what is the role of the CEO in driving that vision?

[8:20] What are some of the surprising things that David has been asked by audiences around the world at his speaking events?

[10:18] David and Daniel discuss how they deal with public dissent or differing opinions that they’re afraid to bring up in front of the group.

[12:55] How would David make the case for culture change driven by the CEO?

[16:54] What is special about the Millennial generation, and how are Millennials and the next generation after them pushing for these ideas of purpose and vision?

[19:32] Simon Sinek is releasing a new book soon — The Infinite Game. David gives us a short preview of the book and its message.

[23:31] What advice would David give his younger self?

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David Mead

Simon Sinek, The Infinite Game

David Mead is an Igniter with and is tied to one of the great minds of our time in the world of culture, purpose, mission — Simon Sinek and his company. David is globally recognized as the How guy to Simon’s Why, and co-authored Find Your Why. He also has years of practical experience working with organizations in different roles and uses this expertise in his current position to help other companies discover and articulate their ‘why.’

In the first of this two-part episode of The Culture Gap, David and Daniel discuss David’s core values that shape him and why his experiences in business school led him to the conclusion that what was being taught was contributing to poor leadership. David also elaborates on how his partnership with Simon Sinek began and blossomed. They discuss why purpose matters, why culture matters, and why it’s so difficult for individuals and organizations to understand and articulate their ‘Why,’ so be sure to tune in. Welcome to Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — David Mead.

[1:32] Who is David Mead?

[2:29] What are some of David's core values that he has held from his earliest days that shape him as a leader? How did he come upon these values?

[4:02] What was David being taught at business school that was contributing to poor leadership?

[6:39] What happened to David the day that he was in the audience and heard Simon Sinek speak? What happened for Simon that moved him to approach David?

[9:32] Why does ‘the why’ matter?

[12:31] Why is it so difficult for people and organizations to understand and articulate their ‘why’?

[14:52] David shares an example to illustrate why it's so difficult to articulate ‘why.’

[17:25] Daniel and David discuss the example of the mission statement of the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation.

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Learn more about:

David Mead

Simon Sinek, Start with Why

Simon SInek, David Mead, and Peter Docker, Find Your Why

Colonial Williamsburg Foundation

Ginger Hardage is the just-retired Senior Vice President of Culture and Communications from an iconic American company with one of the most celebrated cultures of all time, Southwest Airlines. With her background in marketing, Ginger started her career in the oil industry, then moved to the insurance industry before serving for 25 years at Southwest. Her latest venture is Unstoppable Cultures, an organization dedicated to helping build and sustain brands that are truly unstoppable.

In this episode of The Culture Gap, Ginger shares more about her time at Southwest Airlines and the mission, vision, values, and purpose of the organization. As a company well-known for their culture and ethos, she shares more about how Southwest formulated their vision statement and an interesting personal anecdote illustrating the core values of the organization. She also dives into her thoughts on navigating the post Me Too movement landscape, and her newest venture, Unstoppable Cultures. Welcome to Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Ginger Hardage.

[1:25] Daniel and Ginger discuss the mission, vision, values, and purpose of Southwest Airlines. What is the distinction between mission and purpose?

[5:46] Vision is critical to a company. Why does it matter, and why is it so difficult for companies to formulate their vision statements?

[8:18] Ginger relates the experience of formulating the company’s vision statement.

[10:15] Ginger shares an unexpected example of the core values of Southwest Airlines.

[13:23] How did Ginger measure the culture of Southwest Airlines?

[15:50] As a leader and an expert in culture, what is Ginger’s approach to navigating the post Me Too movement landscape?

[20:27] Ginger’s new venture is Unstoppable Cultures. She explains more about the mission of the organization.

[23:03] What advice would Ginger give her younger self, with all the wisdom that she has now?

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Learn more about:

Ginger Hardage on LinkedIn

Southwest Airlines

Gary Kelly

Ginger Hardage is the just-retired Senior Vice President of Culture and Communications from an iconic American company with one of the most celebrated cultures of all time, Southwest Airlines. With her background in marketing, Ginger started her career in the oil industry, then moved to the insurance industry before serving for 25 years at Southwest.

In this episode of The Culture Gap, Ginger shares more about the earliest days of her life that shaped her personal values, and how she thinks about corporate culture. She discusses her time and experiences at Southwest Airlines, giving some insights into how Southwest connects with its employees. She also shares a powerful case for culture that would convince the most skeptical CEO, so be sure to tune in. Welcome to Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Ginger Hardage.

[1:49] Who is Ginger Hardage?

[2:40] What were some of Ginger's personal values that were instilled her as a child? How did that help her navigate inside a company like Southwest Airlines?

[5:07] How would Ginger define ‘corporate culture’?

[7:15] There is no way to really import the culture of another organization.

[7:34] Southwest only hires about 2% of all applicants. What is it like to be part of the 2%?

[9:45] How would Ginger make the case for the power of culture to a skeptical CEO?

[11:55] What are Ginger’s thoughts on the gaps between the strategy of a firm and the culture of a firm, particularly at Southwest Airlines.

[14:36] The CEO should be the Chief Culture Officer. What is Ginger’s perspective on that?

[17:17] Ginger speaks to the importance of leaders supporting and engaging with their employees.

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Learn more about:

Ginger Hardage on LinkedIn

Southwest Airlines

Gary Kelly

Gen. Stanley McChrystal is best known for his command of Joint Special Operations in the mid-2000s, in the context of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is a nationally and internationally known speaker and thinker on the subject of leadership, with multiple best-selling books, including a new book, Leaders: Myth and Reality. In 2011, he founded McChrystal Group, a leadership advisory services firm that helps organizations navigate leadership challenges.

Leadership, Vision, and the Role of Followers

In this episode of The Culture Gap — the second of two episodes featuring Gen. McChrystal — he and Daniel discuss his best-selling book Team of Teams, and how the team dynamic plays out in boardrooms across the world. Gen. McChrystal has also recently launched a brand new book, Leaders: Myth and Reality. He shares more about his inspiration to write the book and his insights on how Coco Chanel and Margaret Thatcher were similar. He has some surprising revelations about the importance of reflection in leadership, and how leaders can best handle criticism. Welcome to The Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:44] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode - Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

[1:28] As the author of Team of Teams and with a wealth of expertise serving on boards, what are Gen. McChrystal's observations on boards as teams?

[5:30] What kind of questions does Gen. McChrystal ask CEOs in a boardroom?

[7:33] Gen. McChrystal has recently launched a new book, Leaders: Myth and Reality. What inspired him to put it out, and why now?

[12:16] Gen. McChrystal sheds some insights about choosing to compare Coco Chanel and Margaret Thatcher as leaders.

[19:35] What is the role of reflection in leadership?

[22:18] What is a healthy way for a leader to handle criticism?

[25:55] What advice would Gen. McChrystal give to his younger self, and the next generation of leaders today?

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Learn more about:

Gen. Stanley McChrystal

McChrystal Group

Team of Teams, by Gen. Stanley McChrystal

Leaders: Myth and Reality, by Gen. Stanley McChrystal

My Share of the Task: A Memoir, by Gen. Stanley McChrystal

Gen. Stanley McChrystal is best known for his command of Joint Special Operations in the mid-2000s, in the context of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is a nationally and internationally known speaker and thinker on the subject of leadership, with multiple best-selling books, including a new book, Leaders: Myth and Reality. In 2011, he founded McChrystal Group, a leadership advisory services firm that helps organizations navigate leadership challenges.

Leadership, Vision, and the Role of Followers

In this episode of The Culture Gap — the first of two episodes featuring Gen. McChrystal — he shares his definition of leadership, and its relationship to vision, strategy, and culture. He also highlights the role of followers as part of the leadership equation, and why the concept of agency is so powerful and important in leadership. Gen. McChrystal shares examples from his own experiences, including deconstructing a famous vision statement from President Trump. He also speaks to the role of corporate culture as it relates to leadership and agency within an organization. Welcome to The Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:41] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

[1:45] Who is Gen. Stanley McChrystal?

[2:22] What are Gen. McChrystal’s core values? Was it nature or nurture that brought them forth?

[4:36] Can leadership be defined? What is Gen. McChrystal’s definition of leadership?

[6:24] What is the chemistry for followers in the formula of leadership?

[8:51] Gen. McChrystal shares some insights on vision, and how leaders can bring vision to even chaotic situations.

[11:28] Gen. McChrystal highlights why President Trump’s vision in 2016 was so effective.

[14:36] How does the concept of “agency” relate to leadership?

[18:06] What is the connection between corporate culture, leadership, and agency?

[24:11] What would Gen. McChrystal’s approach be going into a company in an uncomfortable and difficult situation?

[27:17] How does Gen. McChrystal see closing the gap between strategy and culture?

[29:39] CEO turnover is becoming a bit of a national crisis. Why is CEO turnover at an all-time high, and how can this trend be reversed?

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Gen. Stanley McChrystal

McChrystal Group

The Culture Gap Podcast Season 1 Episode 2: “Colonel David Sutherland, Former Military Leader and Founder of Sutherland Partnership”

Leaders: Myth and Reality, by Gen. Stanley McChrystal

Jillian Grennan is an academic with a specialty in corporate finance and she teaches at the Fuqua School of Business at Duke University. She has produced some incredible work about looking at and measuring corporate culture without even being inside the firm. She has done a lot of research on culture to try and understand the value added by culture for firms and also has a strong corporate background that lends itself to her areas of expertise.

In this episode of The Culture Gap — the second of two episodes featuring Jillian — she explains more about some of the foundational ideas of her research and what some of her colleagues are working on in the same field. She also shares some insights about why so many CEOs see culture as important yet the gap between what they see and what they make happen is vast, and her thoughts on the Me Too Movement and its impact on corporate culture. Welcome to The Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:43] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Jillian Grennan.

[1:26] Jillian explains more about the technology behind computational linguistics and how she applied it to bring data to life in her study of external culture measurement.

[4:09] Daniel and Jillian discuss the gap between the values of the company that are proclaimed and what employees are really seeing as the values in the company.

[7:01] Who are some of Jillian’s colleagues focused on this same area of study? How does their work tie in with hers?

[11:13] Why do some CEOs not believe that having a healthy corporate culture is important, particularly when the evidence points to great benefits companies will reap from it?

[14:50] You can study other cultures but you can’t import another culture into a firm.

[16:27] What is Jillian’s perspective on not hiring based on culture fit to avoid creating a monolithic organization that is essentially an echo chamber?

[19:34] What are Jillian’s thoughts on the Me Too Movement and how that plays into companies’ cultures?

[23:47] Are there alternative models to the hierarchical pyramid structure that most companies tend to adopt and seems to be the tyranny of business?

[27:29] If Jillian were asked to be the Chief Culture Officer at Nike, what would her advice be to the C-suite?

[29:40] What research is Jillian working on next?

[31:41] What advice would Jillian give her younger self, prior to starting her career?

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Learn more about:

Jillian Grennan

Jillian Grennan on LinkedIn

Me Too Movement on Wikipedia

“The Economic Implications of Corporate Financial Reporting,” by John R. Graham,
Campbell R. Harvey, and Shiva Rajgopal

“Corporate Culture: Evidence from the Field,” John R. Graham, Campbell R. Harvey, Jillian Popadak, and Shiva Rajgopal

Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World, by Adam Grant

Jillian Grennan is an academic with a specialty in corporate finance and she teaches at the Fuqua School of Business at the Duke University. She has produced some incredible work about looking at and measuring corporate culture without even being inside the firm. She has done a lot of research on culture to try and understand the value added by culture for firms and also has a strong corporate background that lends itself to her areas of expertise.

Economics, culture, culture measurement

In this episode of The Culture Gap — the first of two episodes featuring Jillian — she shares more about why she approaches culture from the CFO’s perspective, rather than the CEO’s perspective. She also has some insights into how economics and mathematics contribute to culture and culture measurement, and about economics as a driving force in corporate culture. Jillian also discusses the topic of culture risk and the role of technology in shaping and driving culture in companies today. Welcome to The Culture Gap.

Key Takeaways:

[:43] Daniel introduces his guest for this episode — Jillian Grennan.

[1:29] Who is Jillian?

[2:20] Jillian approaches culture from the CFO’s perspective, not the CEO’s perspective. Why is that?

[4:09] What are some of Jillian’s personal values and how has her upbringing and background shaped them?

[5:57] Why did Jillian choose economics and mathematics as her areas of study?

[8:21] What is Jillian’s definition of corporate culture? What does it take for a person joining a new organization to fit in?

[10:09] What is Jillian’s perspective about the levers of economics in driving corporate culture?

[13:03] The topic of culture risk is very pertinent today.

[16:55] A company’s culture is live on the internet right now. How much faith does Jillian have in data sets presented on the internet about companies?

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Learn more about:

Jillian Grennan

Jillian Grennan on LinkedIn