The Church Lobby – Details, episodes & analysis

If you’re a preaching pastor, you know what it means to feel the burden and the joy of preparing and preaching a sermon every Sunday. No matter how many years we’ve done it, we can always use a little more help to do it better.

Karl Vaters talks with Austin Carty about the craft of writing and delivering a weekly sermon, based on Austin’s latest book, Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon. Austin is the pastor of Boulevard Baptist Church, a small congregation in Anderson, SC.

Karl and Austin talk about several of the aspects that go into sermon prep, including:

• The weekly call to biblical self-reflection
• How to decide what passage to preach from
• How to hook the listeners into the essence of the message
• Setting enough time to seriously prayerfully read, study and ponder the text
• Preaching from a posture of humble conviction rather than blind certainty
• And more

Links:

• Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon
• The Pastor’s Bookshelf: Why Reading Matters for Ministry
• Why Reading Matters for Ministry, with Austin Carty (Ep 61)
• Vanderbilt Revised Common Lectionary

BONUS EPISODE (Subscribers Only)

Five Questions to Help You Preach a Well-balanced Sermon, with Austin Carty

One of the most important aspects in sermon prep and presentation today is making sure you know and acknowledge that there are points of view that are different from yours. But how do we recognize these points of view, while preaching the truth from God’s Word?

Austin Carty helps us negotiate this potential minefield in a short conversation with Karl Vaters, based on Austin’s new book, Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon, by helping us ask these five questions:

1. Have I made sweeping generalizations?
2. Have I overargued my point?
3. Have I taken into account my own biases?
4. Have I considered other viable points of view?
5. Have I sufficiently justified my claims?

Links:

Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon

What happens when all the church growth principles that were working in your church, suddenly stop working when you need them the most?

Karl Vaters interviews Paul Dazet about what happened to him, as the pastor of a fast-growing church shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. Over 100 members left, saying things like “I just can’t handle being sad at church,” and “It used to be so energetic. Your illness changed the whole vibe.” Paul’s illness and the shaved head that went with it were seen as a show of weakness, need, and vulnerability that many people were uncomfortable seeing on a church platform.

But it’s not all bad news. Paul also walks us through the positive changes he has made in his approach to pastoring, including allowing space for lament, and how he now defines ministry success.

Links:

• Paul’s article on Substack
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/
• Instagram - @pauldazet
• Twitter / X - @pauldazet
• Bluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social‬
• Libby
• Hoopla

Bonus video 

The Five False Jesus’ of the “Successful” Church, with Paul Dazet

Paul Dazet found out that a numerically-growing church isn’t necessarily a healthy church. In this Bonus content, Karl Vaters talks with Paul about the 5 ways churches can be tempted to see Jesus that are not what Jesus intended for his church. They are:

1. “Jesus wants you rich” (Prosperity Jesus)
2. “Jesus votes red, white, and blue” (Nationalistic Jesus)
3. “Jesus is disappointed in you” (Judgmental Jesus)
4. “Jesus only loves people who look and believe like us” (Exclusive Jesus)
5. “Jesus is here to meet your every need” (Consumeristic Jesus)

Links:

• Paul’s article on Substack
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pastorpauldazet/
• Instagram - @pauldazet
• Twitter / X - @pauldazet
• Bluesky - @pastorpaul.bsky.social‬

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Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?

If you’re serving a small church that’s considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.

Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Navigating the Post-Pandemic Landscape of Worship.

Links:

• SmallChurchCoaching.com
• LinkTree
• You can follow Sam on Facebook and X

Bonus video

The Limitations of the Institutional Church in Reaching the Community

Karl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about some of the limitations that are now coming to light about the institutional church model (building, salary, etc.) that we’ve both spent our lives in. The challenges we talk about include:

1.  Physical and Financial Constraints: Many churches invest most of their resources into maintaining buildings and programs rather than directly engaging the lost. This is especially difficult for smaller congregations.

2.  Passive Churchgoers Instead of Active Disciple-Makers: Institutional churches can unintentionally foster a consumer mindset, where members attend services but are not equipped to lead or disciple others.

3.  Limited Reach Beyond Church Walls: Most churches expect people to come to them rather than embedding the Gospel in everyday life and relationships.

4.  Slow Adaptation to Cultural Shifts: In an age of rapid change, large churches with complex structures often struggle to pivot quickly to meet new challenges and opportunities.

5. Overemphasis on Sunday Gatherings: The primary focus in many churches is the Sunday experience, but disciple-making happens most effectively in smaller, relational environments.

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My podcast guest this week is Gary Garcia — again.

This time we talk about Pastoral Transition from a unique perspective. I was Gary’s lead pastor for 25 years, then Gary became the lead pastor, while I stayed on the pastoral staff with him.

In this episode Gary and I talk about

• Why that happened
• How we did it
• How it’s been going since

Some key points about making a successful pastoral transition will include:

1. We need to know God is calling us to do it, even if it’s outside our comfort zone.
2. We must spend the necessary time to talk, think and pray about it. It’s better to do it well than do it fast.
3. Each needs to support the other. The former lead pastor must truly let go of control, and the new pastor needs to honor the past without being intimidated by it.

Links from this Episode:

DownloadYouthMinistries.com

Find Gary on Instagram

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Karl Vaters and Gary Garcia have worked together at the same church for 29 years. For the first 25 years Karl was the lead pastor. For the last 4 years Gary has been the lead pastor.

This is the first of two episodes with them. In the next one they will talk about everything surrounding the pastoral transition, but in this episode they talk about

• How to stay in ministry long-term
• How to stay fresh while in the same church
• How to work together well
• Advice for those wanting to stay strong in ministry for the long haul

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Karl Vaters interviews Tom Harris about the important, but underserved topic of Intentional Interim Pastorates. Tom is the co-author of Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During a Pastoral Transition. He also serves as the president of IPM: Interim Pastor Ministries.

In this conversation, Tom and Karl talk about the importance of interim pastorates, including how an intentional interim can help prepare a church to hit the ground running when they call a new pastor. 

Links from this episode:

InterimPastors.com

Soaring Between Pastors

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Karl Vaters interviews Rich Brown on the importance of long-term pastorates.

Rich is the author of Extended Stays: A Closer Look at Longer Pastorates. He has served for decades as a pastor and in Christian higher education. Currently he serves with IPM (Interim Pastor Ministries).

In this conversation, Karl and Rich talk about why long-term pastorates are good for the church, the pastor, the pastor’s family, and for the community we're called to reach.

Including:

• Some shocking stats about pastoral tenure
• Why a series of short-term stays can be problematic
• How to make a long-term stay effective for everyone
• How to grow deeper through transition without relocation

and more.

From the Episode:

Rich@interimpastors.com

Extended Stays by Rich Brown

InterimPastorMinistries.com

The Forgotten Church by Glenn Daman

Turnaround Strategies For the Small Church by Ron Crandell

Transforming Church in Rural America by Shannon O’Dell

Growing Young - Fuller Seminary

Church Revitalization in Rural America by Tom Cheyney

Small Church Checkup by Kay Kotan & Phil Schroeder

Leading the Smaller Church by Glenn C. Daman

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Karl Vaters interviews Matt Henslee about the importance of having small church representation in denominational leadership.

In addition to being a small church pastor and authoring/co-authoring several books, Matt has recently been appointed to leadership in his denomination (the Southern Baptist Conference) on both a regional and national level.

Karl and Matt talk about how this came happened and how important it is for all church groups, including denominations, to make a place for small church pastors in leadership. 

Links from this Episode:

Jonah Over Coffee

Replanting Rural Churches

PreachingSource.com

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Karl interviews Jean Morgan, a small church pastor who wrote a Master’s thesis about the correlation between a pastor’s personality and the size of the church they serve.

In this conversation, Jean and Karl talk about

• The way Jean made this assessment
• The initial results
• The possible impact of his results for us as small church pastors

What we discover is that our effectiveness in small church ministry is less about our personality type and far more about

1. Our feelings of effectiveness

2. Listening closely to our calling, not to the outside voices that tell us we need to hit certain numbers

3. How God can use any personality type to accomplish his will for his church

Jean's Masters Thesis can be found here https://karlvaters.com/small-church-pastor-personality-types/

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Karl talks with Lori Andrews about trauma, its effect on the brain, and how to use this information as we lead through challenging times.

Topics include:

• How can we help people cope with the constant flow of low-to-moderate-level trauma?
• The value of consistency in worship services.
• How to help kids prepare for children’s services.
• The neurobiological benefits of corporate worship.

Lori has a doctorate in Education, specializing in chronic trauma and broken family systems, with training in neurobiology. She works with at-risk youth, and she has spent many years in small-church ministry.

Links from this episode:

Freshhope.us

mentalhealthgracealliance.org

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