The ABMP Podcast | Speaking With the Massage & Bodywork Profession – Details, episodes & analysis

A simple question turned into a deep dive, and I learned a ton along the way! A client has an implanted vagus nerve stimulator. Now what?

In this episode of I Have a Client Who . . ., Ruth explore's how vagus nerve stimulators work, why they're used, and the precautions massage therapists should consider. Plus, we discuss the exciting possibilities these devices hold for a wide range of treatments.

Resources:

Ben-Menachem, E. (2001) "Vagus nerve stimulation, side effects, and long-term safety," Journal of Clinical Neurophysiology: Official Publication of the American Electroencephalographic Society, 18(5), pp. 415–418. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1097/00004691-200109000-00005.

Lerman, I. et al. (2019) "Noninvasive vagus nerve stimulation alters neural response and physiological autonomic tone to noxious thermal challenge," PLoS ONE, 14(2), p. e0201212. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0201212.

Mandalaneni, K. and Rayi, A. (2025) "Vagus Nerve Stimulator," in StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK562175/ (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Olsen, L.K. et al. (2023) "Vagus nerve stimulation: mechanisms and factors involved in memory enhancement," Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, 17. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnhum.2023.1152064.

Tariq, K. et al. (2020) "A case report of Vagus nerve stimulation for intractable hiccups," International Journal of Surgery Case Reports, 78, pp. 219–222. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijscr.2020.12.023.

UCL (2025) Vagus nerve stimulation could help people get more exercise, UCL News. Available at: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/jul/vagus-nerve-stimulation-could-help-people-get-more-exercise (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Vagus Nerve (no date) Physiopedia. Available at: https://www.physio-pedia.com/Vagus_Nerve (Accessed: October 22, 2025).

Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS): What It Is, Uses & Side Effects (no date) Cleveland Clinic. Available at: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17598-vagus-nerve-stimulation (Accessed: October 18, 2025).

Wu, Q. et al. (2024) "Current status of transcutaneous auricular vagus nerve stimulation for tinnitus: a narrative review of modern research," Frontiers in Neuroscience, 18, p. 1405310. Available at: https://doi.org/10.3389/fnins.2024.1405310.

Host Bio:        

Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com.   

About our Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.    

Website: anatomytrains.com    

Email: info@anatomytrains.com          

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains 

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA 

This month mark's my 25th anniversary of being a massage therapist. In my 25 years, I have developed some opinions about definitions. In this episode of The Rebel MT, I am breaking down the cost of deep tissue therapy, calling out who is paying the price, and analyzing how we need to rethink things. Not just for our clients, but for the sake of a long and awesome career.

Host Bio:        

Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com     

Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com          

Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com.        

About our Sponsors:

Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

Rebel Massage Therapist:

My name is Allison. And I am not your typical massage therapist. After 20 years of experience and thousands of clients, I have learned that massage therapy is SO MUCH more than a relaxing experience at a spa. I see soft tissue as more than merely a physical element but a deeply complex, neurologically driven part of who you are. I use this knowledge to work WITH you—not ON you—to create change that works. This is the basis of my approach. As a massage therapist, I have worked in almost every capacity, including massage clinics, physical therapy clinics, chiropractor offices, spas, private practice, and teaching. I have learned incredible techniques and strategies from each of my experiences. In my 20 years as a massage therapist, I have never stopped growing. I currently have a private practice based out of Long Beach, California, where I also teach continuing education classes and occasionally work on my kids. If they're good.

website: www.rebelmassage.com

FB: facebook.com/RebelMassage

IG: instagram.com/rebelmassagetherapist

YouTube: youtube.com/c/RebelMassage

email: rebelmassagetherapist@gmail.com

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.    

Website: anatomytrains.com    

Email: info@anatomytrains.com          

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains 

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA 

In this episode of The ABMP Podcast, Doug Nelson explores the concept of bidirectionality - the mutual and reciprocal influence where each factor shapes the other. He discusses how physiological changes during a session affect both client and therapist, and how moments of shared connection and humanity remind us of the profound healing power of touch.

Host:

Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977.  Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982.

He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation.

Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

PMNT: www.pmnt.org

Anatomy Trains is a global leader in online anatomy education and also provides in-classroom certification programs for structural integration in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan, and China, as well as fresh-tissue cadaver dissection labs and weekend courses. The work of Anatomy Trains originated with founder Tom Myers, who mapped the human body into 13 myofascial meridians in his original book, currently in its fourth edition and translated into 12 languages. The principles of Anatomy Trains are used by osteopaths, physical therapists, bodyworkers, massage therapists, personal trainers, yoga, Pilates, Gyrotonics, and other body-minded manual therapists and movement professionals. Anatomy Trains inspires these practitioners to work with holistic anatomy in treating system-wide patterns to provide improved client outcomes in terms of structure and function.    

Website: anatomytrains.com    

Email: info@anatomytrains.com          

Facebook: facebook.com/AnatomyTrains 

Instagram: www.instagram.com/anatomytrainsofficial

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2g6TOEFrX4b-CigknssKHA 

Precision Neuromuscular Therapy seminars (www.pnmt.org) have been teaching high-quality seminars for more than 20 years. Doug Nelson and the PNMT teaching staff help you to practice with the confidence and creativity that comes from deep understanding, rather than the adherence to one treatment approach or technique.

Find our seminar schedule at pnmt.org/seminar-schedule with over 60 weekends of seminars across the country.

Or meet us online in the PNMT Portal, our online gateway with access to over 500 videos, 37 NCBTMB CEs, our Discovery Series webinars, one-on-one mentoring, and much, much more! All for the low yearly cost of $167.50. Learn more at pnmt.thinkific.com/courses/pnmtportal! 

Follow us on social media: @precisionnmt on Instagram or at Precision Neuromuscular Therapy Seminars on Facebook.

The mix of money, business, and family can be tricky. Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines provides some tips to add structure and avoid resentment in these potentially awkward situations. 

Resources:

www.calm.com

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community.

Author links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/

Sponsors:

Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com

HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being.

Website: www.hobacare.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany

A person with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus develops new back pain in her mid-upper left side. It feels like "it's coming from under my ribs," she says.

First, it's diagnosed as arthritis, but interventions don't seem to make a difference.

Finally, a year into this unremitting pain, a rheumatologist asks about her breathing and discovers she has developed a complication called pulmonary thrombosis, probably related to her autoimmune diseases. They start treatment and voilà, her back pain is gone.

This is a good example of a case in which massage therapy was definitely NOT the best choice.

Resources:

Dsouza, K.G. et al. (2023) 'Management of interstitial lung disease in patients with autoimmune disease-related interstitial lung disease', Multidisciplinary Respiratory Medicine, 18(1), p. 890. Available at: https://doi.org/10.4081/mrm.2023.890.

Fibrosis as an autoimmune disease (no date) CPC - M. Available at: https://www.cpc-munich.de/en/research-projects/fibrosis-as-an-autoimmune-disease/index.html, https://www.cpc-munich.de/en/research-projects/fibrosis-as-an-autoimmune-disease/index.html (Accessed: 3 May 2024).

3. Gole, S. and Bankole, A. (2024) 'Nintedanib', in StatPearls. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing. Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK585049/ (Accessed: 8 May 2024).

Interstitial Lung Diseases - What Are Interstitial Lung Diseases? | NHLBI, NIH (2022). Available at: https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/interstitial-lung-diseases (Accessed: 8 May 2024).

5. Kašiković Lečić, S. et al. (2022) 'Management of musculoskeletal pain in patients with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis: a review', Upsala Journal of Medical Sciences, 127, p. 10.48101/ujms.v127.8739. Available at: https://doi.org/10.48101/ujms.v127.8739.

6. Massage & Bodywork - MAY | JUNE 2021 (no date). Available at: https://www.massageandbodyworkdigital.com/i/1358392-may-june-

Host:

Ruth Werner is a former massage therapist, a writer, and an NCBTMB-approved continuing education provider. She wrote A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology, now in its seventh edition, which is used in massage schools worldwide. Werner is also a long-time Massage & Bodywork columnist, most notably of the Pathology Perspectives column. Werner is also ABMP's partner on Pocket Pathology, a web-based app and quick reference program that puts key information for nearly 200 common pathologies at your fingertips. Werner's books are available at www.booksofdiscovery.com. And more information about her is available at www.ruthwerner.com.   

Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

Elements Massage: www.elementsmassage.com/abmp

Earthlite: www.earthlite.com

The Greater Omentum is one of the cooler parts of our anatomy. So cool, in fact, that it is deserving of superhero status. In this episode of The Rebel MT, Allison takes a look at this incredible piece of our viscera and unveils what she believes its superhero name should be. 

Host:     

Contact Allison Denney: rebelmt@abmp.com     

Allison's website: www.rebelmassage.com          

Allison Denney is a certified massage therapist and certified YouTuber. You can find her massage tutorials at YouTube.com/RebelMassage. She is also passionate about creating products that are kind, simple, and productive for therapists to use in their practices. Her products, along with access to her blog and CE opportunities, can be found at rebelmassage.com.        

This podcast sponsored by:  

Rebel Massage Therapist: http://www.rebelmassage.com

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

MYCO CLINIC: www.myco-clinic.com

MassageBook: www.massagebook.com

Emergency funds are for emergencies, but how do we save for planned time away from our businesses? Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines walks through the process of saving money for a leave of absence. 

Resources:

Ep 425 - Budgets and Savings in Your Massage Business https://www.abmp.com/podcasts/ep-425-budgets-and-savings-your-massage-business-business-or-pressure-allissa-haines

Foster Creative Design https://www.fostercreativedesign.com/

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community.

Author links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/

Sponsors:

Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com

HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being.

Website: www.hobacare.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany

Two names that are well known within the bodywork community—Dr. David Simons, author of Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual, and Moshe Feldenkrais, engineer, physicist, and founder of the Feldenkrais Method. Who were these pioneers in the bodywork profession and what can we learn from their origins?

Resources:

Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual: https://www.amazon.com/Myofascial-Pain-Dysfunction-Trigger-Manual/dp/0683083635

Feldenkrais Method: https://feldenkrais.com/

Host:

Douglas Nelson is Board Certified in Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Bodywork, beginning his career in massage therapy in 1977.  Seeing over 1,200 client visits annually for decades, he is also the owner of BodyWork Associates, a massage therapy clinic in Champaign, IL. with 21 therapists that was established in 1982.

He is the founder of NMT MidWest, Inc., providing training in Precision Neuromuscular Therapy™ across the USA. He has personally taught more than 13,000 hours of continuing education and is the author of three books. Doug is a past president of the Massage Therapy Foundation.

Sponsors: 

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

Elements Massage: www.elementsmassage.com/abmp

Earthlite: www.earthlite.com

Darren Buford is joined by Cal Cates, founder of Healwell, to discuss the concept of co-regulation in therapeutic relationships, how to balance a welcoming and friendly atmosphere while maintaining professionalism, navigating boundaries while still fostering trust, and techniques that could help ensure that client interactions are supportive, balanced and professional.

Cal Cates is an educator, writer, and speaker on topics ranging from massage therapy in the hospital setting to end-of-life care and massage therapy policy and regulation. A founding director of the Society for Oncology Massage from 2007 to 2014 and current executive director and founder of  Healwell, Cates works within and beyond the massage therapy community to elevate the level of practice and integration of massage overall and in health care specifically. Cates also is the co-creator of the podcasts Massage Therapy Without Borders and Interdisciplinary. 

Related Content:

"Walking the Fine Line of Friendship and Therapist:" https://www.massageandbodyworkdigital.com/i/1519088-may-june-2024/84?

Host:

Darren Buford is senior director of communications and editor-in-chief for ABMP. He is editor of Massage & Bodywork magazine and has worked for ABMP for 22 years, and been involved in journalism at the association, trade, and consumer levels for 24 years. He has served as board member and president of the Western Publishing Association, as well as board member for Association Media & Publishing. Contact him at editor@abmp.com.

Sponsors:

Anatomy Trains: www.anatomytrains.com 

Elements Massage: www.elementsmassage.com/abmp

Earthlite: www.earthlite.com

Sometimes, we overvalue the time, energy, or money we put into a project, which clouds our decision-making. Business or Pressure host Allissa Haines talks about the sunk cost trap—and how to avoid it—in your massage business.

Host:

Allissa Haines is a practicing massage therapist and business owner and columnist for Massage & Bodywork magazine. You can find her building a community of massage therapists at deepbreathdigital.com/community.

Author links:

Website: www.deepbreathdigital.com/community

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deepbreathcommunity/

Resources:

The Good Enough Job: Reclaiming Life from Work: https://www.simonestolzoff.com/

Sponsors:

Jojoba: www.jojobacompany.com

HobaCare Jojoba is a premium quality, 100% pure jojoba oil that is highly beneficial for massage therapists. As a single-ingredient product, it aligns perfectly with holistic practices, providing an all-natural, chemical-free massage medium option. Jojoba oil closely resembles human sebum, which allows it to absorb easily and deeply into the skin, delivering a non-greasy, moisturizing experience that doesn't clog pores or cause allergic reactions. This unique property makes it an excellent medium for massage, enhancing tactile contact without leaving an oily residue. HobaCare Jojoba is also shelf stable and will not stain natural fiber sheets. By choosing HobaCare Jojoba, massage therapists can enhance their practice, offering clients a superior, skin-friendly experience that promotes both skin health and overall well-being.

Website: www.hobacare.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jojobacompany

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jojobacompany