My guest today is Manuel Pais.
Manuel is the co-author of the masterpiece book "Team Topologies: organizing business and technology teams for fast flow".
He's recognized by TechBeacon as a DevOps thought leader, and is today an independent consultant and trainer, focused on team interactions, delivery practices and accelerating flow.
We covered a lot, including some questions and comments from Lyse and Shibsted (read the full case here):
* Different types of teams and interaction modes, and why it's important to define them in your org
* Differences between "streams" and "products", and the importance of having stream-aligned teams able to discover and deliver as independently as possible
* Why team topologies should be seen as an ongoing model, with a mindset of experimentation, sensing, and responding (avoiding the "big reorg" antipattern)
* Conway's law and why it matters
* Navigating infrastructure changes and team topologies
* How to identify your streams using independence service heuristics
* How Shibsted organized itself in independent verticals and why value-stream thinking is important to achieve faster flow
* Product Ops teams as Enabling Teams
* Implementing and scaling enabling teams (with an example of data science teams)
* Common antipatterns when adopting team topologies
I love Manuel and Mathew's work, and see it as one of the most important contributions to the tech industry in the past few years.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit