Positioning with April Dunford – Details, episodes & analysis

In today’s episode, I speak with product marketing expert and consultant Tamara Grominsky, who is the former Vice President of Product Marketing at Kajabi and Unbounce. 

Have you ever asked questions such as: “How do I hire a good product marketer? What skills should they have? And how should we measure product marketing?” In this episode, Tamara and I answer those questions and more.

You will learn: 

* The key responsibilities of a good product marketer.

* Why product marketers should know the product better than product managers.

* The differences between sales-led and product-led go-to-market strategies, plus the importance of mapping the buying journey and equipping the sales team with the right messages.

* The need for founders to be realistic about the skills and experience required for a startup product marketer.

* Why product launches don't need to be big or expensive to succeed, but they do need to be intentional about who the launch is for.

* Lessons from how Michelin Guide was launched to encourage more driving, with star ratings for destinations.

* The benefits of analyzing existing customers to identify best fit for product and value proposition.

* Why you should avoid creating marketing personas that are too fictional and instead create segment profiles that are based on quantitative data.

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If you want to skip ahead: 

(3:27) Product marketing role and responsibilities. 

(6:47) Product marketing challenges and hiring tips. 

(12:24) Product launch strategies. 

(16:08) Identifying target audience for product launches. 

(20:13) Segmentation in marketing. 

(25:10) Identifying customer segments. 

(29:01) Product marketing personas. 

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Connect with Tamara Grominsky on LinkedIn: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaragrominsky/ 

Subscribe to “PMM Camp,” Tamara’s newsletter for product marketing leaders: https://newsletter.pmmcamp.com/subscribe 

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Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: 

Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact 

April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ 

April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford 

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Mentioned in this episode: 

* PMM Camp, Tamara’s community for product marketing leaders: https://www.pmmcamp.com/ 

* The Leap, a platform by Thinkific that creators can use to create and sell digital products: https://www.theleap.co/ 

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Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: 

“Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”

“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”

Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY 

Amazon Canada:

Today’s episode is a repost of one of my favorite topics: why value is important for positioning for B2B technology companies. 

In this episode, first I define value vs. differentiated value, and explain why the latter is key to everything. Next I explore how to find the right balance between features and value, and I share tips on mastering your product walkthrough and proving your claims to customers. I also cover common mistakes to avoid when segmenting your audience, the job of a market category, and how a strong understanding of your differentiated value will inform successful messaging that resonates with your customers. 

Lastly, near the end of the episode, I discuss my book, “Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win,” which you can get from Amazon https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY and wherever good books are sold—see more links below. (When I originally published this episode, my book wasn’t out yet. But it’s been out for 10 months now and has received hundreds of 5-star reviews.) 

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If you want to skip ahead: 

(00:15) Defining value.

(01:14) A story about Janna Systems and their biggest competitor, Siebel Systems.

(04:19) How one sales rep changes everything.

(07:35) How Janna Systems shifted their positioning and won over Siebel Systems.

(08:34) Customers don’t care about your features.

(10:28) Value vs. differentiated value and what really matters.

(13:15) Value buckets.

(14:06) Why value is difficult to understand.

(16:06) Helping customers translate value on their own.

(18:21) Mastering your product walkthrough.

(20:00) The importance of proving your value to customers.  

(21:47) Finding your best-fit customer.

(23:50) Common mistakes to avoid. 

(25:11) Differentiated value and the job of a market category.

(27:43) How differentiated value informs messaging.

(29:30) My book about sales pitches. 

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Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: 

Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact 

April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ 

April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford 

—

Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: 

“Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”

“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”

Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY 

Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt 

Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ

Apple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC

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The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.

Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Subscribe on Apple...

Today, I’m going to discuss how to have consistent positioning and messaging across sales and marketing using tactics from my book Sales Pitch. You will learn: 

• Why marketers at B2B companies should start with the sales pitch first
• An overview of buyer’s guides and the components of the best ones
• How to create an explainer video using the sales pitch structure
• Why all content should target the proper persona 
• Examples of graphics used to educate buyers 
• Other types of content that can be structured around the sales pitch 

You'll also hear that this is the final episode of Season 1, as I'm excited to take a break from podcasting for the rest of the year. Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast, and I look forward to recording more content next year!

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:21) An overview of my consulting work and season 1 finale

(01:11) Why marketing should center their storytelling on what works for sales

(05:30) How and why to use a buyer’s guide with customers 

(09:13) How to incorporate the Sales Pitch structure into explainer videos 

(10:20) Other places pieces of the sales narrative may work well

(11:07) The significance of different personas  

(12:10) Leveraging the sales narrative set up phase for conference talks

(13:30) How graphics can enhance understanding of differentiated value 

(14:09) The graphics Postman created to illustrate its features and capabilities 

(16:20) Gitlab’s infinity graphic

(17:16) Salesforce’s confusing infographic 

(19:30) Other ways to use my Sales Pitch structure

(21:13) Closing thoughts

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: ⁠https://www.positioning.show/⁠ 

Personal Website: ⁠https://www.aprildunford.com/⁠ 

LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/⁠ 

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/⁠ 

Twitter: ⁠https://twitter.com/aprildunford⁠

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Referenced:

Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021⁠

Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/⁠

What is Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/product/what-is-postman/⁠

The API platform landscape: ⁠https://blog.postman.com/2022-api-platform-landscape-trends-and-challenges/⁠

Gitlab Infinity: ⁠https://gitlab.com/infinity7x⁠

Salesforce Customer 360: ⁠https://www.salesforce.com/ap/blog/what-is-salesforce-customer-360/⁠

Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Obviously-Awesome-Product-Positioning-Customers/dp/1999023005⁠

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Production and marketing by ⁠https://penname.co/

It's frustrating to see the widespread misuse of business terminology in the corporate world. Terms such as strategy, positioning, and vision are frequently interchanged or confused. Today, I'll clarify these terms, discussing when and how to use them. I’ll share with you:

• The difference between strategy, vision, and positioning 
• Pitching to investors vs. pitching to potential customers
• The importance of adapting positioning
• An explanation of Geoffrey Moore’s “bowling pin” strategy
• Examples of implementing the “bowling pin” strategy earlier in my career
• Why you don’t need a story for your strategy
• The importance of having a shared vocabulary within your organization

Thanks for listening! 

If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:17) How the book tour is going

(01:02) A brief overview of vision, strategy, and positioning 

(04:02) The difference between pitching to investors and potential customers 

(06:30) How positioning evolves as your strategy progresses

(07:18) How to use the “bowling pin” strategy 

(08:21) “Bowling pin” strategy examples from Janna Systems and Tulip Retail

(13:51) Common pitfalls people make in discussing strategy

(17:24) The importance of clarifying terminology with your team members

(18:55) Closing thoughts

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

Good Strategy Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239

Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Every business wants to cash in on the latest trend, and for good reason. Trends can be powerful tools to enhance your positioning. However, it's crucial to recognize that not all trends are a universal fit for every company. Blindly adopting trends without thoughtful messaging can lead to disastrous outcomes for your business.

Today, I’m diving deep into the world of trends. You’ll learn the following:

• The difference between markets and trends
• How trends can be layered on top of your differentiated value
• Why it’s a risky move to chase trends that aren't relevant to your business
• Real-world examples of companies incorporating trends, both successfully and poorly
• An overview of AI technology and how to address it in your business 

Thanks for listening! 

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:27) Information about Sales Pitch and a reader’s review

(01:19) The difference between markets and trends

(04:34) How and when to layer trends on top of your differentiated value

(06:36) The three circle mental model of product, market, and trend 

(07:38) How Redgate Software took advantage of the DevOps trend

(09:50) Trends don’t always align with your product (and why you shouldn’t force them to)

(13:41) Long Island Blockchain: an example of a company latching onto an unrelated trend

(16:39) An overview of AI technology 

(18:28) The right way to address AI if it is relevant to your business and customers

(19:42) Announcements 

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

Pantone: https://www.pantone.com/

Redgate Software: https://www.red-gate.com/

Long Island Iced Tea Soars After Changing Its Name to Long Blockchain: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/crypto-craze-sees-long-island-iced-tea-rename-as-long-blockchain

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Today, I will talk about how to address your competition, which is commonly mismanaged. Once again, you’ll see it all comes back to positioning and differentiated value. I’ll share with you:

• Why it’s almost always a bad idea to name the competition when you’re the market leader
• Real-life examples of companies naming their competitors
• The benefit you gain from naming and positioning your competitors when you’re small
• How to combat lies and negativity from your competitors

Thanks for listening!

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:21) How my book launch went

(01:47) Addressing competition by putting them into buckets

(03:43) Why market leaders should never mention the competition

(05:03) Slack’s letter to Microsoft that named them as a competitor

(09:16) DocuSign's ad mentioning Dropbox

(10:36) Why you might build a custom landing page based on a search query

(11:24) The benefit of naming the competition if you’re small

(13:08) Positioning your competitors

(16:57) Combating negative positioning from competitors

(21:41) Closing thoughts

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021

Slack’s “Dear, Microsoft” letter: https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

I get asked a lot by people about today’s topic on how to manage a positioning change within an organization. It applies to big and small companies and even those going through acquisitions. 

In today’s episode, I cover:

• The times when your positioning might change
• How to figure out the frequency of assessing your positioning 
• The complexities of changing your positioning after an acquisition
• How to test your new sales pitch after you change your positioning 
• And more

I also want to mention my new book, Sales Pitch, is out! 

If you’d like to learn more or order a copy, you can go to https://www.aprildunford.com/books 

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:00) I launched my book and today’s topic

(01:25) What happens when your positioning changes and specific examples

(07:40) The unplanned reasons for why your positioning might change and how to check it

(12:02) If you need to change your positioning, what you should do

(15:10) How to be careful testing your new sales pitch

(17:19) Why acquisitions require more work

(24:51) The funniest thing I learned from going through 6 acquisitions 

(26:45) A few updates from me

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Today, I’m joined by Bruno Aziza, who has an incredible background in data and technology and is a dear friend of mine. He has held previous positions at Google, Oracle, Microsoft, and AtScale. He’s currently a Partner at CapitalG, which is Alphabet's independent growth fund.

In today’s episode, we cover:

• The importance of starting with first principles. This means defining your set of beliefs, particular identity, and your core center of design for your product. 
• Why you should be competing at the service level for your customers, not the feature level.
• The biggest learning from Bruno’s time as the Head of Data & Analytics at Google Cloud.
• How to approach confrontation in the workplace.

I’m very excited for you to listen. 

And by the way, my book has officially launched! 

You can order a copy of Sales Pitch by going to https://www.aprildunford.com/books 

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If You Want To Skip Ahead:

(00:00) Meet my guest Bruno Aziza

(01:50) Transitioning from a big company to a startup

(06:59) Bruno’s big takeaways from his time at a successful startup

(14:20) How Bruno applies the “center of design” concept to his thinking

(21:00) Connecting with customer pain points

(27:59) Lessons from leading Data & Analytics at Google Cloud

(33:01) Handling workplace confrontation

(35:24) Why being hyper-realistic is a great way to approach cross-functional meetings 

(38:18) Bruno’s role at CapitalG

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Where To Find Bruno Aziza:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brunoaziza

CarCast: https://tinyurl.com/TheCarCast

Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

CapitalG: https://www.capitalg.com/ 

AtScale: https://www.atscale.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

My next book, Sales Pitch, is finally out! I’ve been working on this project for quite some time now and am beyond excited to share it with you all! 

If you’d like to support me and purchase the book, visit https://www.aprildunford.com/books to learn more. I’ve also included a free workbook on that page as well.

Since my book came out this week, I figured today’s episode should be about why I wrote this book. I certainly didn’t start my career thinking I would end up helping so many businesses with their sales pitch, but here we are.

In today’s episode, you’ll learn:

• My exact sales pitch structure
• How I adjusted my structure after my time at IBM
• What it means to start with a market insight
• Why you never talk about features in the first sales call 
• And so much more

Thank you again for supporting this podcast, my two books, and the other content I put out.

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If you want to skip ahead:

(00:00) Book launch week

(00:57) My background in positioning and creating the sales pitch

(07:25) IBM’s sales pitch structure

(13:30) How April changed her approach after IBM

(19:15) Why I got into sales pitches

(24:45) My sales pitch structure

(29:47) The book is here and how to get templates with the book 

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Referenced:

Corporate Executive Board: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEB_Inc. 

The Challenger Sale: https://www.amazon.com/Challenger-Sale-Control-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355 

The JOLT Effect: https://www.amazon.com/JOLT-Effect-Performers-Overcome-Indecision/dp/0593538102 

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/

Today, I go deep on how to approach aligning your marketing and sales teams. It’s a topic I repeatedly hear most companies struggling with, and I’m excited to discuss the following:

• The definition of what a good lead is 
• How to get marketing and sales to collaborate on a sales pitch
• The importance of incorporating a sales pitch testing protocol 
• Why you need structure to bring together marketing, sales, and product teams

We’re getting so close to the launch of my next book, Sales Pitch! You can pre-order it today on Amazon with the links below: 

Amazon Canada

Amazon USA

Amazon UK

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If you want to skip ahead:

(00:00) Welcome and new book

(01:05) Marketing and sales alignment

(02:17) What is a good lead

(06:10) How marketing builds sales pitches

(09:05) Bringing marketing, sales, product, and executives together to craft positioning 

(13:40) Create a sales pitch testing protocol 

(20:19) Before you bring teams together, make sure you have structure 

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Where To Find April Dunford:

Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ 

Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/