Pfeffer on Power – Details, episodes & analysis

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Alex Rodriguez, CEO and Chairman of investment firm Arod Corp, and is known as one of the greatest baseball players of all time, and Matt Abrahams, of the Think Fast Talk Smart podcast to co-host this interview. 

Alex discusses his transition to business and teaching at Stanford. Rodriguez, who co-teaches a class on Strategic Pivoting with Professor Allison Kluger, shares insights into their teaching framework and what he’s learned through teaching. 

Alex also emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, resilience, and preparation in both his athletic and business endeavors. Alex also touches on handling setbacks, maintaining authenticity, and the value of humility and gratitude in personal development. Alex also shares what he’s learned about effective communication and team-building, and how it can help shape young leaders and athletes.

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

Finding resilience in the face of setbacks

23:07: [Jeffrey Pfeffer] So, what advice, in coming back from setbacks—which is, I think, amazing—how did you find the inner resilience to do this?

23:29: [Alex Rodriguez] This is tough. I mean, everybody handles setbacks their own separate way. I don't care who you are. I mean, I don't care how perfect you are. Name the best CEO—he or she—they've had setbacks, I guarantee it. So, again, I think this is where baseball has really helped me because baseball is the epitome of setbacks. So, I think having the resilience, the confidence, the perseverance from inside to keep trying. I mean, I remember in my darkest hour, I would send 10 emails out—one or two responded—and it was heartbreaking. And part of it was 'cause I was a pariah, and people don't wanna be around me. And Allison works really, really hard with the administration, like, you know, vouching for me. And it's something that I'll never forget. I mean, here I am, in my darkest hour, trying to fight back. And Allison, out of all people—they're probably saying, "There are 750 major league baseball players. This is the one? You got the guy that got suspended for all these years?" And she's like, "Yeah, he's actually a nice guy," and this and that. It's like, "Ah, I'm not sure if I'm buying it." But, I mean, here we are seven years later, and I couldn't be more proud of the partnership.

How Alex shapes his communication style with his skills

29:38: I think my style of communication is a blend between sports and business, and a little bit of entertainment and levity. I always think about, what is the number one or two things that I'm trying to deliver, and then I'm trying to go—every good story has a good headline, has a beginning, middle, and end. And then maybe go back and repeat my headline, and if I can say more with less words, the better.

What makes a great communicator

28:28: Part of being a great communicator is sticking to your circle of competence—speak with passion, but about something where you have real knowledge, where you have something to actually add.

• Alex Rodriguez | LinkedIn
• Strategic Pivoting for your Next Chapter
• MattAbrahams.com
• Think Fast, Talk Smart Podcast

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Sarah Friar, CFO of OpenAI and former CEO of Nextdoor.

Sarah shares her impressive career journey from engineering in Northern Ireland, to McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, and various leadership roles, notably CEO of Nextdoor and CFO at OpenAI.

Sarah offers insights into switching roles within the C-Suite, the challenges women face in tech, and the importance of networking, curiosity, and owning one's power. She discusses her transition back to a CFO role, her views on organizational culture, and practical advice for building effective teams. 

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

• LinkedIn Profile
• Social Profile on X
• Ladies Who Launch Profile

The power of curiosity and connections in tech

06:19: So I went to this conference. It was two days back to back, and I came back to work, and the VP said, “Where have you been?” Like, we were a bit worried about you. And I was like, “Oh, I was at this conference.” And I walked around this conference, and it was super nerdy. Like, you know, it's the nerds of the nerds. But I was there with my Goldman Sachs business card, and I would just stop at every booth and talk about what someone's technology was and who they were. And that has paid dividends so long in my career. Number one, it got me into the one space that wasn't cracking when the bubble really burst bad. It got me a pathway over into equity research, which actually became the much longer part of my Goldman career. These people that I met at that stage, many of them were young engineers, have become very senior in the technology industry over time. And it was just such a good learning moment for me. Not just that network is important, but curiosity is important. The people who don't look like you or seem like you can actually become incredibly important, interesting, and useful in your career path.

How is Sarah aligning impact with opportunity?

14:32: First and foremost, I think it's really about aligning where you can have the most impact, right? The whole, if you're going to change the world, start by giving something big a push. To me, that meant OAI or OpenAI right now at this moment in time. I think it is in the crucible of how much AI is going to change the world. And in particular, the mission statement of OpenAI around building technology that will benefit all of humanity was incredibly important to me. Like, we're not just advancing AI, we're actually shaping the future of how society will interact with intelligence itself. And so there's not many places in the world, it might be an N of 1 where I think you can go do that. So, you have to sometimes just recognize that. The role doesn't matter, the title doesn't matter, because the role itself puts you right in that moment. 

Sarah's perspective on aligning personal impact with broader change

03:23: I always want to put myself where I feel like I can have maximum impact, but importantly, the thing I'm impacting will have maximum impact. There's a quote that's always stuck with me: "If you want to cause change in the world, give something big a push." And so I often try to put myself in that place.

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Luciana Doria Wilson, co-founder of Managrow, a boutique member of AICA global corporate advisors.

Luciana opens up about her experience in Jeffrey Pfeffer's "Leading with Power" course, which shifted her perspective from execution to leadership, revealing the critical role of resilience, discipline, and strategic understanding of power dynamics, especially as a woman in a male-dominated industry. Luciana's insights will leave you empowered and ready to navigate your own career path with confidence.

Learn how ManaGrow's commitment to long-term relationships with entrepreneurs and investors across 40 countries has driven sustained growth and client loyalty. Tune in for practical advice on expanding your professional network, maintaining client trust, and creating lasting business success in today's global market.

00:00 Welcome

01:03 Meet Luciana Doria Wilson

02:01 Luciana's Early Career in Finance

03:05 Transition to Board Roles

07:07 Founding ManaGrow

09:52 Impact of Stanford's Power Course

12:06 Networking Strategies and Business Growth

15:27 ManaGrow's Unique Approach

17:07 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

The impact of the power course on Luciana’s business approach

[12:06] Jeffrey: So, what was the difference after you took the class? What did you do differently in terms of the networking that you had done before and then after the class?

[12:16] Luciana: So one thing is that I'm more selective. The other thing is the strategy behind my mind. So if I want to create impact, what is it that I need? Who do I need to speak to? I was able to get access to very interesting people during my career, but I wasn't using those relationships to do the things I thought were important or aligned with my values. So that's how it changed. It's a completely different picture from what I was doing before. I was able to help and get help, and this is something ongoing in my life.

What makes Managrow different?

[17:09] Jeffrey: It strikes me that a lot of what you're doing, other organizations are also doing, particularly investment banks and business brokers. What do you believe is your competitive advantage?

[17:21] Luciana: Most of the boutiques do only transactions, and the relationships with their customers are based on the deals. We work as a boutique, so we do not compete with banks because they are doing the largest transactions. And with the small ones, we are different because we know better the customers, investors, and entrepreneurs. So it's the concept of the boutique; that's why it's very different from those that are only doing transactions and don't care about long-term relationship that they are building between these entrepreneurs.

On getting out of your comfort zone

13:39: There is a lot about getting out of your comfort zone... It's something you choose, not something that happens.

• Managrow.com
• Luciana’s LinkedIn Profile
• Stanford Alumni Women’s Impact Network

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Deepti Pahwa, advisor of corporate venture studios, government-led start-up accelerators, and also the author of the book, Trailblazer Founders.

Deepti brings us lessons in power distilled to "three superpowers" of courage, creativity, and determination. Her inspiring journey showcases how you can exploit structural holes in professional networks, craft resources almost out of thin air, and pursue objectives with unwavering intentionality. Jeffrey and Deepti discuss how she doesn't just talk about the importance of personal branding and leadership; she embodies it. Deepti also stresses the importance of building and using your network, sharing how embracing your role as your own Chief Evangelist Officer can open doors and create opportunities, particularly for people historically left at the margins. 

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

00:00 Welcome

01:21 Deepti’s Career Journey

04:18 Leveraging Power and Networks

07:15 From India to Global Influence

10:00 Trailblazer Founders

16:41 Building Economic Opportunities for Diverse Communities

19:37 Closing Thoughts

Deepti’s three principles in taking your own power
18:33: The first three principles that I personally use, which I believe are my superpowers, but I also believe are superpowers for any given person: courage. It's like taking bold actions and making bold asks because what is the worst that would happen? You would hear a no; that's about it, right? So, just take the plunge. The second thing is to build networks and support networks around you who are invested in your success. And there are lots of people, at least in today's world, who are invested in your success. Go out there and find them, and, at the same time, have that insane kind of determination for what you're after because it is the impact that you wish to create. It's not about who is stopping you. Just be like water. Like, if you see a river, it finds its way, right? So everybody's able to kind of find that way if you just have the determination. Build networks and support networks around you who are invested in your success. And there are lots of people, at least in today's world, who are invested in your success. Go out there and find them, and at the same time, have that insane kind of determination for what you're after because it is the impact that you wish to create. It's not about who is stopping you. Just be like water. Like, if you see a river, it finds its way, right? So everybody's able to kind of find that way if you just have the determination towards the impact that you wish to create.

Don’t bet on the horse bet on the jockey
11:27: There's a whole coaching industry out there of products, services, and frameworks that prepare startup founders with so-called business model innovations, product-market fit, failure mindset, and culture training for teams, but no one ever teaches them the importance of leadership skills, building networks, thought leadership, investing in communities, and showing up with confidence and conviction to convey their ideas. And to me, it's more like telling a friend how to play chess on your behalf. I mean, you can make as many plans and business models as you want, but unfortunately, strategies and frameworks do not come in handy on a battlefield. And it's a very different set of skills that you need to succeed as an entrepreneur. And in doing the research that I did in writing this book, I found that venture capitalists, investors, and board members, and dozens of them that I interviewed, do not actually bet on the horse that is your idea, but they actually bet on the jockey that is the founder itself.

On providing opportunities for entrepreneurial idea for people with diverse background

17:46: I have to say that a lot of the times we talk about how we can provide for fair systems from the institutional perspective, and what we can do as institutions to increase that diversity. But my take is that, all that needs to be done and is a responsible thing to do, but until that happens, what we as individuals can do is to take part in the systems; and that is only possible by way of taking our own power and building our own influence .

• DeeptiPahwa.com
• Link to Trailblazer Founders
• Amazon Page
• LinkedIn Profile

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by John Rossman, author of four books on leadership and business innovation, including The Amazon Way and his new book Big Bet Leadership. He is an early Amazon executive who played a key role in launching the Amazon marketplace business in 2002. Today, he is a leading keynote speaker on leadership for innovation and transformation. He has served as the senior technology advisor at the Gates Foundation and senior innovation advisor at T-Mobile and is the founder of Rossman Partners, a strategy & leadership solutions firm.

John and Jeffrey discuss how corporate titans like Amazon sculpt their industry-dominating strategies. John Rossman helped mold Amazon's colossal marketplace. John tells Jeffrey his six cardinal rules for skillfully navigating Amazon’s early days and the pivotal role of trust in accelerating one's career. John also shares insights into using memo crafting as a clarity tool and customer happiness as the central dogma. Check out this episode for some real insight on navigating corporate power. 

• 00:00 Welcome to Pfeffer on Power: Introducing Jon Rossman
• 02:42 Jon Rossman's Journey: From Amazon to Author
• 06:37 Rules to Navigating Corporate America: Rule 1: Earn Trust
• 07:53 Rule 2: Be an Active and Early Risk Manager
• 09:54 Rule 3: You Have to Manage Dependencies
• 12:19 Rule 4: Having the Right Sense of Urgency
• 14:50 Rule 5: Manage Up
• 17:04 Rule 6: Clarify in Your Communications
• 21:29 Amazon as a Political Place
• 23:26 Why Jon Left Amazon
• 25:11 Wrapping Up: The Essence of Power and Autonomy

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

You have to manage dependencies

10:00: So, the 14th leadership principle at Amazon is "deliver results." And the other ones tend to get the fanfare, but I'm telling you, the 14th is the one that differentiates Amazon. Like, you have to deliver results. Well, most things are not within your control; then you're really managing dependencies, and so you see this very active dependency management process. And so it's all based off of kind of "trust, but verify," like, you're always featuring the bad news. You're always having check-in meetings. You don't trust what they say. You ask more for proof points and demonstrations, and you don't assume anything. And so, sometimes, that gets into hedging and creating alternate paths. But people that are successful at Amazon are extremely good at managing dependencies upon others.

Why clear expectations are the cornerstone of trust

06:42: Trust and transparency sound like such great attributes to have, but most people don't really understand what trust is. Trust is about setting expectations and hitting expectations. And if you can trust that somebody sets good expectations and then hits those expectations, you can work together through almost anything. And most people don't actually understand what that word "trust" is; they think it means something like, you know, trustworthy or something like that, but you can actually create a formula. And what most people don't do well is they don't set expectations very well. And when you don't set expectations very well, then you each have a vague understanding of what the expectation is. And that's where so many things go sideways.

Without risk, there are no new innovations

08:20: Alpha risk is where we create new innovations. And so, you have to be extremely good at communicating your concept and where it's going. You also have to be very good at teaming networks and internal negotiating relative to this. So, this builds off of the trust aspect of setting expectations.

• JohnRossman.com
• Profile on Linkedin
• Amazon Author Page
• Big Bet Leadership: Your Transformation Playbook for Winning in the Hyper-Digital Era
• The Amazon Way: Amazon's 14 Leadership Principles
• Think Like Amazon: 50 1/2 Ideas to Become a Digital Leader
• The Amazon Way on IoT: 10 Principles for Every Leader from the World's Leading Internet of Things Strategies

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Deborah Gruenfeld, professor at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business and author of the book Acting with Power: Why We Are More Powerful Than We Believe.

Deborah emphasizes the impact of physical body language and personal presence on the perception of power. The discussion further delves into the utilization of 'outside-in' and 'inside-out' techniques for asserting power and the notion of differentiating between status and power. 

Deborah argues that possessing power comes with responsibilities that may not appeal to all while striving for status is universal. From the width of your stance to the tempo of your speech, the nuances of body language speak volumes about your place in the social hierarchy. Deborah and Jeff examine the choreography of power—how to enter a room, how to take up space, and how to pace your movements to nonverbally assert dominance. For those who've ever felt overlooked or underestimated, this episode is a toolbox for crafting the presence you deserve.

• 00:00 Introduction
• 00:53 Understanding Power and Body Language
• 01:42 The Evolution of the 'Acting with Power' Class and Book
• 02:20 The Impact of Visuals and Nonverbal Cues on Power
• 03:22 The Role of Personal Growth in Power
• 08:50 The Power of Imagination in Power Dynamics
• 11:46 The Importance of Taking Up Space
• 22:31 The Role of Status and Power in Hierarchies
• 23:53 Overcoming Fear and Embracing Power
• 27:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

A technique on how to show up more powerful

06:31: One set of tactics or techniques is what I call outside-in techniques, and they have to do with just changing how you carry yourself: your physical body, how you stand, how you use your arms, how you use your eyes, and how you sit. The other set of tactics that I really think is equally important, maybe even more important in some cases, is what I call inside-out tactics. The inside-out tactics have to do with having ways to reframe situations and our role in those situations that are empowering. One of the things I like to say in my classes is that there are a lot of things about power and social life that are not under our control. We can't, for example, control directly how people perceive us, but we can always control, once we know how, where our attention goes.

How do you act powerful?

12:26: Being open in some ways feels very vulnerable, and it is. But when you have a lot of power, you can afford to be vulnerable. This is why the alpha gorillas sit with everything exposed because nobody's coming for them. It's the lower-down-ranking animals that have to protect their bodies. So having an open chest, in particular, conveys a lot of authority and power. That's an especially important technique for people who are smaller in stature. People always ask me if I can't carry myself like a tall person and I can't dominate someone physically with my height, what options do I have? I often tell them that the most important thing is that you carry yourself with an open chest because what you're communicating when your arms are capable of moving away from your body is that you are ready to fight for whatever you want, regardless of how big you are. 

On being comfortable with power

23:25: There are people who just feel that it's not who they are to carry themselves in a way that takes ownership of superiority, authority, control, or having interests, experiences, and expertise that are privileged above other people. They're just people who feel like they can't do that. And I think it's one of the big challenges that a lot of executives face. In this way, I think we're really aligned, which is that most people realize they need to be comfortable with power in order to be successful. But they have to get past this fear of being held accountable, fear of losing status, fear of making enemies, and also fear of failing to show up as an authentic, powerful person when how you really feel is a little bit smaller.

• Faculty Profile at Stanford School of Business
• Profile on LinkedIn
• Acting with Power: Why We Are More Powerful Than We Believe
• Wikipedia Page

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Steve Westly, a venture capitalist and entrepreneur - he was employee number 22 at Ebay, lecturer in Management at Stanford University, and politician. He is also the former State Controller of California and can call some of the most powerful people in the world his friend.

In this episode, Steve unpacks the stark contrasts and surprising similarities of power's role in both the private and public spheres and discusses why today's brightest stars are shying away from public service—a trend he believes is crucial to reverse.

What has Steve learned about power from working closely with notable figures like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Barack Obama, and Meg Whitman, and the personal sacrifices they made on their paths to success? From the indispensable value of determination and the wisdom that you only get from defeat to the essence of intelligent communication and ambition, Steve and Jeffrey go over the essential qualities that forge a successful leader—be it in the worlds of tech or politics.

• 01:51 Public vs Private Sector Power
• 02:42 Steve's Personal Journey and Motivation
• 05:51 Lessons from Powerful Figures
• 11:41 Determination and Ambition
• 18:55 Insights into Biden's Campaign
• 22:14 Public and Private Sector Leadership: Differences and Similarities
• 24:13 Closing Remarks

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

Are the public and private sector leadership qualities more similar than we think?

22:45: Private sector and public sector require you to be not just a good communicator, but a great communicator. And I think the best leaders in the public and the private sectors are people who are not only great communicators. They have the rarest of all personal traits, and that's the ability to inspire people. Tenacity in both sectors. It is tough. You've got board issues. You've got employee issues, legal issues, labor issues, and politics. You got all the issues. You have to be incredibly tenacious.

What makes a successful politician?

12:19: It's not just persistence and determination; it is insane determination. It is the willingness to sit in a small room hour after hour, calling people, begging for money, and to go out the next day and have people beat the living shit out of you. In the public and with your family, my opponent for the gubernatorial race not only ran hit ads on me but managed to get my wife and two and three-year-old children into the hit pieces. It's not easy. Winston Churchill once said, in war, you can only die once. But in political life, you can die many times over again, and it's true. It's hard. It's tough.

What Steve learned from Meg Whitman of Ebay?

18:07: I think there are three things. I mean, one of them—it's where I was starting—Pierre and Jeff really handed the keys to a rocket ship to her. It was the first thing with a community growing like crazy that was, you know, there's always a little bit of good luck in the long term success. Second, look, Meg's just very smart. She's a Princeton grad. She was an athlete. She has a degree from Harvard, a background at Disney. She was smart. She was experienced. And third, I would say she's just a great communicator. And I think she worked hard at listening. She had a lot of superb traits.

12:19: Leadership has a lot of facets for students out there. I'd urge you to look broadly, and it goes beyond the standard pedigree.

• Profile on WestlyGroup.com
• Faculty Profile at Stanford University
• Steve Westly LinkedIn
• Wikipedia Page

In this episode of the 'Pfeffer on Power' podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, is joined by Matt Abrahams, a lecturer at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, podcast host of Think Fast, Talk Smart, and author of both 'Speaking Up Without Freaking Out' and 'Think Faster, Talk Smarter.' 

The discussion centers around effective communication strategies to navigate through challenging situations and accelerate career growth. Topics include managing anxiety during public speaking, shifting communication mindset, being present-oriented, the importance of preparation, and leveraging structure in spontaneous speaking situations.

• 01:06 Introducing the Guest: Matt Abrahams
• 02:59 Matt’s Career Journey
• 05:09 Overcoming Fear of Public Speaking
• 10:37 Tips for Effective Communication
• 15:18 Spontaneous Speaking and Its Importance
• 21:47 Conclusion and Farewell

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

Communication is about connection, not perfection

17:52: Many of us worry about not doing our communication right. We want to be perfect. We want to do it right. And I'm here to tell you, after doing this for decades, there is no right way to communicate. There are better ways and worse ways, but there is no one right way. And by fixating on trying to do it right, we actually get in the way of doing it well at all. It's all a bandwidth issue. Cognitive bandwidth. We only have so much bandwidth, and if part of that bandwidth is dedicated to hyper judgment, hyper-evaluation, we have less effort to put into what we're saying. So it's about connection, not perfection. Communication is about connection, making it relevant. So after we manage anxiety, that's where we have to go.

What are the keys to speaking better?

20:03: If we manage anxiety, we connect rather than worry about being perfect. Make sure that we see things as opportunities, not threats. We listen well, and we use structure. Those are the keys to being better at speaking in the moment.

How do we get over the fear of public speaking?

05:09 [Jeffrey Pfeffer]: What is your advice to help people get over this fear of public speaking? 

05:17[Matt Abrahams]: We have some evidence that upwards of 75-85 percent of people report it as a major issue that they have. And quite frankly, I think the rest of the people are lying. I think we could create a situation that would make them nervous too. The goal, I don't think, is to overcome it. I don't think we ever truly can overcome it. Those of us who study this believe it's innate to being human to have this anxiety, but there are certainly things we can do to manage it. When it comes to managing anxiety, you can look at it as a two-pronged approach. First, you have to deal with the symptoms that we experience—the rapid rate, the sweaty brow, the shakiness—but you also have to address the sources of anxiety—the things that initiate and exacerbate it. It's a two-pronged approach.

• MattAbrahams.com
• Think Fast Talk Smart Podcast
• LinkedIn Profile
• NoFreakingSpeaking.com
• Faculty Profile at Stanford
• Speaking Up Without Freaking Out
• Think Faster, Talk Smarter

In this episode of the Pfeffer on Power podcast, host Jeffrey Pfeffer is joined by Tony Levitan, CEO of InWhack and the co-founder of Egreetings. The discussion delves into Levitan's experiences as a startup founder, specifically the challenges faced during his journey with Egreetings which ended up transforming from a 300 million-dollar business to a 30 million-dollar one. 

Levitan speaks about the lessons he learned and the importance of retaining the company’s culture even amidst leadership changes. Pfeffer and Levitan also shed light on 'imposter syndrome,' the need for behavioral interviewing during executive searches, and the pivotal role of effective coaching in personal and professional development.

• 00:00 Introduction and Overview
• 00:29 Guest Introduction: Tony Levitan
• 00:57 Tony's Journey with Egreetings
• 01:36 The Challenges of Startup Founders
• 03:19 Tony's Personal Experience and Lessons Learned
• 04:06 Tony's Reflection on His Time at Egreetings
• 08:43 The Impact of Leadership Changes on Company Culture
• 12:23 The Importance of Effective Hiring and Recruitment
• 16:56 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
• 21:23 The Role of an Executive Coach
• 24:29 Conclusion and Farewell

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

On the importance of inquiry

18:26: One of the things that is the easiest door in for many is we all are asked to make business decisions off of data. And yet, when it comes to two things, we don't tend to bias towards data. One is people. We don't tend to have as much data on people, right? We make decisions off of gut feel and things like that. The other is being able to take an external view of ourselves and our competency, right? So I have a couple of clients who are wrestling with their identity as a competent leader, and yet they're surrounded by data that says, "You are making a difference. You are delivering impact." They just have a hard time seeing it, and they don't have people around them who are helping them see it on a daily basis.

On the importance of having a coach

22:41: When I made the shift at InWhack, Inc., it took me a while to figure out where my sweet spot was going to be because I think, just like I had to figure out where I could deliver as a coach, people who look for a coach need to do some reflection on what would be helpful to them.

What references should really tell you

14:17:  One of the mistakes we made at Egreetings is, we actually—I feel embarrassed to share this because it's so obvious, but we had the executive search firm do the reference checking. And I mean, you want to talk about misaligned incentives, right? I mean, their incentive is to close the search. Our incentive is to have deep insight into who's coming to work in our company. So, that's one of the things I always mention. The other thing is that References aren't so much about, should I hire this person or not. References really ought to be about how do we most effectively work with this person. What does this person need to be effective in working with us?

• Profile on LinkedIn
• Profile on X

In this episode of 'Pfeffer on Power,' host Jeffrey Pfeffer, a Stanford University professor, converses with education expert and influential figure, Dr. Rudy Crew. Dr. Crew is the Clinical Education Professor at USC Rossier School of Education, and has had notable former roles as Chancellor of New York City Schools, superintendent of the Miami-Dade County School District, and Chief Education Officer for the State of Oregon. 

After having a long successful career in the education sector in these prestigious roles, Dr. Crew shares insights on navigating the sphere of power, the cost that comes with it, and the wisdom necessary to make careful choices. 

The talk explores aspects of power like ego, greed, the lure of linking to powerful individuals, and the personal, professional, and political consequences of the pursuit of power. Dr. Crew emphasizes the importance of staying grounded, maintaining humane leadership, and being observant of warning signs in a volatile political environment. 

Significantly, he stresses that ethical leadership rooted in keeping the welfare of students at the forefront has helped him navigate these challenges.

• 00:01 Introduction and Guest Presentation
• 01:53 The Price of Power: A Discussion with Dr. Rudy Crew
• 03:30 The Pitfalls of Power: Ego, Lack of Ideas, and Wrong Associations
• 05:52 Recognizing Danger Signs in Power Pursuits
• 08:03 Navigating Political Challenges in Power Positions
• 10:51 The Consequences of Tough Decisions in Power Positions
• 17:20 Avoiding the Pitfalls of Power: Advice and Insights
• 20:57 Staying Grounded in Power Positions: A Personal Anecdote
• 22:52 Conclusion and Farewell

Learn more about Jeffrey Pfeffer and his work on JeffreyPfeffer.com

Pfeffer on Power is produced by University FM.

Lead by the kind of quality work your provide

18:25: I remember having to make budget cuts, and those budget cuts were going to be pretty deep. But there's goodwill in the culture. If there are other things that you did or have done traditionally that made people feel like this was not a vendetta, unfortunately, this was a bad fiscal year in the state of California, and we had to make budget cuts. But the fact of the matter is, there was humanism brought to the table. There was a sense of honor brought to the table. There was transparency and a sense of humility brought to this that no one enjoyed watching people walk out the door and be without a job. You can create a cultural wave of positivity and yet do some things that are very, very, very unpopular and sometimes very uncomfortable.

There’s no good deed that gets unpunished

17:05: My advice has always been, pay the price. Don't do the wrong thing, but just understand that by doing the right thing, you will still accrue a consequence. There's no good deed that goes unpunished.

Every job comes with a quid pro quo

15:57:  When you get the job, be prepared to lose the job. That would be the first of many commandments, right? Be prepared to lose it, and by losing it, I mean, it may be gradual, but the fact of the matter is every decision you make comes with a consequence, and that consequence generally is added up in political terms, and the accumulation of that is what I would say to you is quid pro quo. That is the giant quid pro quo. It's the one that you're going to ultimately pay permanently for.

• Faculty Profile at USC Rossier  
• Wikipedia Profile
• LinkedIn Profile
• APB Speakers page