The word on messaging from fellow product marketers. Dig into the stories, skills, and advice from the top voices who craft messaging that resonates every day.
Hosted and written by Josh Chronister.
How to Position & Message Yourself for PMM Career Growth w/Yi Lin Pei
Season 1 · Episode 15
Tuesday, November 18, 2025 • Duration 45:55
In this episode, product marketing career coach Yi Lin Pei shares her framework for self-positioning and career differentiation. Yi Lin breaks down the concrete steps to shift from a tactical executor to a strategic growth driver, how to evolve your personal messaging to command executive presence, and why the most important communication skill might be asking "why" before saying "yes".
Key Takeaways
- Position Yourself Like a Product: Apply PMM principles to your career. First, define your "destination" (where you want to go and who you want to be). Second, understand why your "target companies" would care about and value you.
- Shift from Executor to Growth Driver: To make this leap, you must first be exceptional at your foundational skills, like creating messaging that is human and differentiated. Then, focus on building cross-functional influence and thinking like a business strategist by tying your work directly to the company's P&L and growth levers.
- Evolve Your Language for Leadership: To gain executive presence, you must change your language. Shift from talking about "tasks" and "projects" to discussing "programs," "processes," and "playbooks" that you are building to be scalable for the future.
- Master the "T-Shaped" Framework: A "T-shaped" PMM has a broad range of expertise across core functions (research, positioning, launches, enablement) but also develops a deep, indispensable specialty in one or two areas, such as competitive intelligence or domain expertise in a technical field like cybersecurity.
- Tell Your Story (to a 5-Year-Old): If you struggle to tell your own career story, Yi Lin suggests practicing as if you're explaining it to a five-year-old. This forces you to simplify, cut to the chase, and focus on the "why" behind your decisions, which is far more compelling than the "what".
- Use a Consultative Approach: When pitching an idea to leadership, don't just present one option. Instead, offer 2-3 potential options, present a data-backed analysis of the ROI for each, and then give your recommendation. This changes the question from "Should we support this?" to "Which option should we support?".
- The Power of Asking "Why": When a manager gives you an urgent, out-of-left-field request, pause before reacting. Instead of saying yes or no, ask questions to understand the "why" behind the ask. This diffuses defensiveness, builds curiosity, and often reveals the true priority (or that the request isn't the right one).
Chapters(
00:37) Why Yi Lin chose career coaching after a 2020 layoff
(04:40) How leaders can make others comfortable coming to them for advice
(07:59) Applying PMM principles (positioning & differentiation) to your own career
(14:47) The 3-step process to shift from a tactical executor to a strategic growth driver
(19:06) How to balance day-to-day tactical work with long-term strategic efforts
(23:31) Defining the "T-shaped" product marketer
(26:39) The importance of domain experience (and when broad experience is an advantage)
(30:55) A simple exercise for PMMs to apply storytelling to their own accomplishments
(33:12) Tactics to evolve your personal messaging for leadership and executive presence
(40:22) The single most important communication skill for handling urgent requests
(44:22) Yi Lin's answer to "What is living all about?"
About Yi Lin- Yi Lin Pei is a product marketing consultant and career coach who helps product marketers grow in their careers and advises companies on building strong teams.
Episode 14: Talya Heller, Owner of Down to a T joins me to break down how to weave competitive intelligence into messaging that actually differentiates.
Talya runs a product marketing consultancy called Down to a T focused on creating a differentiated POV coupled with customer centered sales assets.
Talya is a former engineer, turned product manager, turned product marketer. She came highly recommended for the show and was referred to as, “the competitive intel queen” (thanks Michele Nieberding!). I love it!
I’ve already taken some of what I’ve learned from this conversation and started implementing it in my competitive intel work as a product marketer.
And I think you will too.
During our conversation, you’ll learn:
* Why 10-page messaging docs fail
* How to adapt messaging for multiple personas
* Talya’s go-to ways to mine customer conversations
* How to create “champion decks” and persona one-pagers
* A simple framework for using competitive intel to shape messaging
* How to identify the real differentiators that make customers choose you
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
Stop Selling Features — Teach a Story Buyers Remember w/ Ryan Yackel | Databand.ai
Season 1 · Episode 13
Tuesday, August 26, 2025 • Duration 01:05:03
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On the show today, I have Ryan Yackel, Chief Marketing Officer at Databand.ai
Ryan is a former sales engineer, turned product marketer, turned chief marketing officer. Also, a children’s book author with an animated version available on Youtube.
This was a phenomenal conversation. Ryan came prepared with props, in the trenches product marketing stories, frameworks for narrative design and book recommendations. Plus we had a lot of good laughs.
//
During our conversation, we discuss
* Why product marketers make natural CMOs, and why founders trust leaders with a product marketing background
* How narrative design helps teams avoid feature dumps and instead tell a differentiated “old way vs. new way” story
* Real-world examples of narrative design applied at Tricentis, KeyFactor, Databand, and IBM
* The role of “sales narratives” in equipping reps to tell memorable stories instead of commodity feature checklists
* How Ryan uses Google Gemini and Notebook LM to accelerate competitive research with frameworks like Obviously Awesome
* Why AI is a useful starting point for research but dangerous to rely on for final messaging
* The major shift in product marketing from startups (new logo focus) to enterprises (internal seller mindshare)
* Three tactics for influencing large sales teams: AMA sessions, “What’s New” newsletters, and quick-turn collateral
* Why “great go-to-market beats a better product every time,” with lessons from competing against HP Quality Center
* Cautionary takes on PLG in enterprise software, and why not all SaaS playbooks translate to technical products
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
Create Messaging Reps Use (And Customers Remember) w/Madeleine Work | Chili Piper
Season 1 · Episode 12
Tuesday, July 29, 2025 • Duration 42:49
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We talk about defining clear platform messaging, getting internal buy-in without watering it down, and why launches are never really one-and-done. We also dive into sales feedback loops, creative copy that still converts, and how Madeleine uses tools like Gong, Wynter, and Mutiny to test what’s working.
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💡 During our conversation, you’ll learn:
1. How to A/B test website messaging
2. How to create continuous feedback loops
3. Getting internal buy-in on your messaging
4. Balancing creativity and clarity in messaging
5. Why product launches are on going and why you should repeat yourself
//
🎙️ In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – Teaser: How Madeleine crowdsourced and tested messaging across her company
00:29 – Intro to Madeleine and what you’ll learn in the episode
01:44 – From content to product marketing: how the transition happened
03:24 – What she loved (and didn’t love) about content marketing
06:01 – The challenge of getting 100% messaging buy-in
06:55 – The collaborative H1 test: value, competitor, and persona buckets
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
From Single-product Messaging to Platform-level Narratives w/ Emily Pick | Clari
Season 1 · Episode 11
Tuesday, June 10, 2025 • Duration 56:41
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Episode 11: Emily Pick, Lead Product Marketing Manager at Clari (https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilypick/) joins me (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-chronister/) to dive into platform messaging, tailoring narratives for different buyer personas, and how to create a unified message across multiple products. We also unpack the balance of feature-level messaging, brand consistency, and customer words.
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💡 During our conversation, you’ll learn:
Influencing the product roadmap as a product marketer
Why most B2B messaging gets stuck in feature-function battles
How to create messaging for buying committees without losing clarity
How to transition from single-product messaging to platform-level narratives
//
🎙️ In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – Nobody’s buying a product—they’re buying a solution to their pain
00:29 – Intro to the episode and what you’ll learn from Emily
01:23 – Emily joins the show and shares her love for messaging
02:26 – Why Emily stepped away from business books and back into travel stories
03:17 – Backpacking, Rick Steves, and what travel taught Emily
06:26 – Travelers, chaos, and the joy of unpredictable experiences
07:20 – Introduction to platform vs. product messaging
07:56 – The history of Clari and their transition to a revenue platform
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
How to Align Sales & Marketing Messaging w/Gaspard Pastural | PurpleOceans
Season 1 · Episode 10
Tuesday, May 27, 2025 • Duration 48:02
On the show today, I have Gaspard Pastural, creator of PurpleOceans and a B2B SaaS Product Marketing Consultant.
🎧 During our conversation, you’ll learn:
- Why go to market isn’t a one time event
- How differentiate with relevance instead of features & pricing
- Why B2B websites should be consumption first, then conversion
- Sales and marketing messaging should be aligned but not identical
//
In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – Why most B2B websites fail: lead gen vs. consumption
01:36 – Gaspard’s LinkedIn writing process and content philosophy
02:32 – The real goal of differentiation: be the most relevant choice
04:15 – What “relevance” means in practice: use cases over categories
06:06 – Why you’ll never out-feature the gorilla in your space
08:05 – The risk of trying to be everything for everyone
09:55 – How poor differentiation breaks messaging, positioning, and conversions
10:55 – Marketing your difference (not just saying you’re different)
11:56 – Sales vs. marketing messaging: aligned, not identical
13:00 – The analogy of explaining your job to everyone at once
14:07 – Three key differences: who, how, and intent
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
7 Messaging Principles Every PMM Should Know w/Collin Mayjack | GoFundMe
Season 1 · Episode 9
Tuesday, May 13, 2025 • Duration 49:06
On the show today, I have Collin Mayjack, Principle Product Marketing Manager at GoFundMe.
Before joining GoFundMe, Collin worked in product marketing at Oncue and Dataro and is the creator of Holy Shift.
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What you’ll learn:
Why Collin believes clarity always beats cleverness in B2B messaging—and how to avoid “junk food” copywriting
The seven messaging principles Collin uses to drive alignment across product, marketing, and sales
How to translate complex products into human-first stories that resonate with buyers (and actually get repeated by sales)
The secret to testing messaging without fancy tools—including Collin’s scrappy process using real customer calls
How to navigate internal messaging politics—balancing SEO, brand voice, and product truths without losing the message
A framework for driving influence across teams—even when you don’t own the pen or the process
How to write messaging that sticks: Collin’s 20-second talk track technique that sales teams love
Why side projects are the ultimate messaging gym—and how they make you a stronger communicator at work
A fresh take on feature vs. benefit messaging (hint: your buyers are smarter than you think)
How Collin builds buy-in by leading with positioning before assets—and how you can do the same
And so much more.
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In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – Intro: Welcome Collin Mayjack to the show
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
"How We Almost Botched Our Messaging..." w/Alex Eaton | UserEvidence
Season 1 · Episode 8
Tuesday, April 29, 2025 • Duration 55:30
On the show today, I have Alex Eaton, Director of Product Marketing at UserEvidence.
Before joining UserEvidence, Alex worked in product marketing at Help Scout and Lessonly.
What you’ll learn:
1. The 3 traits that separate great product marketers from good ones—and why “execution” is the most underrated
2. How Alex avoided a messaging disaster at UserEvidence—and the simple question that unlocked the right positioning3. Why most messaging gets overlooked inside companies—and how Alex ensures people actually use it4. A tactical breakdown of messaging docs that get read—why yours should be under two pages
5. The “gut tension” test Alex uses to know when messaging isn’t ready yet—and how to push past it
6. How to tailor messaging for multiple personas without breaking consistency
7. The role of customer evidence in brand messaging—and why UserEvidence leads with faces, not product shots
8. How to enable sales without being the “messaging cop”—Alex’s exact approach to feedback, coaching, and internal buy-in
9. What Alex learned from working with messaging consultants like Fletch—and when to bring in outside help
10. The mindset shift from “being right” to “driving outcomes”—why collaboration beats ownership in product marketing
And so much more.
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In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 – Intro & Welcome
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
How to Get the Most From Every Customer Interview w/Shoshana Kordova | Peel Product Marketing
Season 1 · Episode 7
Tuesday, April 15, 2025 • Duration 47:46
On the show today, I have Shoshana Kordova, creator of Peel Product Marketing.
She truly defines what it means to be a curious product marketer and I think you’ll see what I mean throughout our conversation.
This episode is for product marketers who…
- Are coming from a writing or editing background and how that experience is a huge plus
- You’re looking to run customer interviews that go beyond surface level
- How to create messaging for very technical products
- How to understand the core needs of sales and why they are asking for enablement
- Why it’s about understanding the story first, then the telling
- And how to break into product marketing at a high tech start up
And so much more.
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In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 Introduction to Shoshana Kordova's Journey
03:31 Transitioning from Journalism to Product Marketing
06:13 The Importance of Research and Interviewing
08:51 Understanding Messaging through Customer Insights
11:32 The Role of Internal Stakeholders in Messaging
14:19 Exploring Customer Needs and ROI
17:03 Peeling the Onion: Digging Deeper in Conversations
19:44 Crafting Clear Messaging for High-Tech Products
24:57 Understanding Diverse Messaging Needs
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
An Accidental Marketer's Approach to Messaging w/ Pete McCarthy | Open Road Integrated Media
Season 1 · Episode 6
Tuesday, April 1, 2025 • Duration 01:16:20
On the show today, we have Pete McCarthy, chief marketing officer at Open Road Integrated Media.
Before joining Open Road, Pete led consumer insights at Ingram content group, co-founded a marketing saas, and led marketing at places like Penguin, and Random House.
Pete’s been in marketing at start-ups, mid sized companies, large orgs, and as an agency owner.
In our conversation he shares,
1. How messaging strategy varies across business sizes
2. The method behind the right book, to the right reader, at the right time
3. How customer relationships drive messaging
4. The CMO’s role on messaging
5. Why product marketers are positioned to be marketing executives
And so much more!
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In our conversation, we cover:
00:00 Introduction
01:44 Pete's Marketing Background
13:17 The Evolution of Marketing Messaging
22:20 Positioning and Messaging Across Business Sizes
31:26 How Messaging was Created for Marketing Insights
36:52 Building Relationships in Corporate Marketing
41:19 The Role of a CMO in Messaging
49:49 How a CMO Thinks About Data and Marketing Measurement
01:00:01 Advice for Aspiring Marketing Executives
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Where to find Pete:
LinkedIn:
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
* Why ignoring your competitors is the biggest messaging mistake you can make
In our conversation, you’ll find:
00:00 – Why ignoring competitors is the biggest messaging mistake
00:45 – Welcome to On Messaging with Talya Heller, the “Competitive Intel Queen”
Subscribe, like, and share if you’re a product marketer crafting messaging in B2B SaaS. New episodes drop every other week 💛
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Created by Josh Chronister
I interview the best product marketers and tech companies who create messaging that resonates with their buyers. Come learn from them, so you can hit ‘Publish’ with confidence.
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