not serious wine chats – Details, episodes & analysis

The funny thing with social media is you can have these online relationships with people but never ever physically meet them. Paul Pujol was one of those blokes for me. Almost every restaurateur I knew raved about the man and couldn’t believe I’d never met him. Thanks to that raving, voyeuristic portal that is Instagram, to be honest, I sort of thought I had. Turns out I hadn’t — until we had this not serious chat. 

There are some people you should never meet. You know the saying, “never meet your heroes”? It’s a premise that they never meet your expectations and you leave the encounter deflated and resentful. Well, let me tell you, meeting Paul Pujol in real life is not like that. It is, in fact, pretty bloody dreamy. 

Armed with a dry wit meets a fiery sarcasm, Paul has this lovely unassuming calm that is balanced by a clearly caring, sentimental take on life while being something of a adrenalin junky — and he makes tasty gear for us all to enjoy — and he comes from Hamilton. The storytelling flows from this dude like the Waikato River cuts a track through that city. Broad and deep and carefree albeit with planned direction. 

Paul shares a winemaking story during this chat that really takes the biscuit. It’s like the Lottery win of how to kick start your wine career. He talks about how his French Father coped with the cheese selection of 1980’s back country New Zealand, spoiler alert – he describes it as being like soap—which is by all accounts was fair for those days. Mon dieu! At least these days Les fromage is much more fanciful and shares the same attention to craft as our winemakers. 

Speaking of making wine, Paul gets candid about what it takes to make the Prophets Rock Vin de Paille— a wine that arrives dressed in a striking short bottle eluding to the fact it’s something a little bit different. This little sucker is made from a single parcel of Pinot Gris and takes 21 months to ferment. Now, I may have just gotten technical for the wine curious folk but let me tell you, that’s a shit tonne of time to ferment and by all accounts, what’s left in the barrel at the end of it to be asserted into the aforementioned snazzy bottle is one fifth of fuck all which why it’s sold out. Honestly, listen to this story of winemaking and if you’re not sold on this fella’s vision and his mad passion for the craft then I’m not sure you deserve to drink any of his booze. He has the commitment of a monk trying to beckon God from the sky. It’s close to insanity but also pretty bloody dreamy. 

So, grip those rosary beads firmly in one hand, grab a glass of some heavenly sweet, sweet nectar in the other and get ready for some enlightenment. This is the not serious Paul Pujol chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
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If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Today on Not Serious Wine Chats, Pete and John and I sit down with Jannine Rickards (Ngāpuhi & Ngāi the Rangi) from Huntress Wines. 

I first met Jannine when she was the winemaker at Urlar in Gladstone, a sub-region of the Wairarapa. This part of the country clearly resonates for Jannine as Huntress shifts from a side hustle to the main act. This wonderful wahine still sources fruit and makes wine in this North Island neighbourhood. 

The name Huntress comes from an extremely pragmatic, utterly pedestrian point of reference for Jannine herself is a huntress. 

A childhood spent on a sheep and beef farm in the Coromandel nurtured an understanding for animal husbandry and welfare, alongside an innate awareness of the restorative powers of spending time in nature.

Her own grandfather passed on traditions such as ancient practices of net fishing for flounder, and her father shared his passion for growing a garden that can feed the family. So it shouldn't come as such a surprise that Jannine grew up to combine the two by becoming a deeply respectful hunter and a massive advocate for a plentiful table laden with homegrown goodness. These things are, in essence, Jannine and factors that contribute to how she sees wine holistically fitting into our lives.

Jannine's practice across her winemaking, her gardening and her hunting is based in Te Ao Māori, where land and spirit are inextricably connected. One thing's for sure Huntress wines sure do taste like they summon the powers of Ra, the sun and the mystical whims of Te Whenua, the land, in a magical balance that best reflects the place they come from. 

There is something of a nomadic story to the Huntress wines. With no vineyards under ownership or her own winemaking space, Jannine leans into the opportunities that exist around her. Much of the wine story is held up by community and people underneath it, and Jannine's story especially represents this as she sources fruit and facilities available to her each season. It means she must work hard across a lot of levels of the business and sure, one day she'd love to put down roots somewhere of her own but for now this huntress is happy just making the most of what Papatuanuku, Earth Mother and Ranginui, Sky Father have to offer from wherever she finds herself. Luckily for us that the universe provides so we can smash a glass or two of Jannine's explorative and most excellent wines. 

So grab your tramping boots, put on your waterproof parker and make sure the singlet next to your skin is made from New Zealand wool. We're heading bush for this one. This is the Not Serious Jannine Rickards chat.

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Many people think Jules is a man. She’s not. Much like winemaker Kim Crawford isn’t a woman. One thing Jules Taylor most definitely is, is a fierce maker of the wines.  She’s got the gongs to prove it including the title of Gourmet Traveller Wine New Zealand Winemaker of the Year 2021.

Unlike most of the winemakers working in Marlborough, Jules was born and raised in Blenheim. Her Mum and Dad still live there and it’s where Jules and George have raised their kids. It’s safe to say the roots of Jules Taylor, both the person and the wine brand are firmly, deeply, sincerely well established in our most well known wine growing region. 

Jules arrived to our podcast studio early and ready to go, despite this sort of thing not being her jazz. She admitted to having lost sleep, worrying about what to say. It’s ironic because she’s a dream to chat to and we had a lot of laughs as well as tasted some pretty great Marlborough wine — and it wasn’t just Sauvignon Blanc.

It’s all fond memories and feels on this chat so grab a glass of something wildly herbaceous and enjoy. This is the not serious Jules Taylor chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Ben Leen is the winemaker at Amisfield winery in Central Otago but it is his side project, Alpine Wine Co. that we really wanted to talk about.  Ben’s hands-on, small batch production is matched with his big energy sales skills. He’s a winemaker who loves showing his wine and that enthusiasm is contagious which is why you’ll find his wines poured at some top places like Hello Beasty or Salty Pidgin when stocks allow. 

It's fair to say that if wine had its own cupid, that little archer has hit a bullseye when it comes to our Ben. He’s fallen head over heels for the romantic vision of a life spent making and enjoying wine. Those simple ideas of slowing life right down, working with the land and living a life of purpose fuelled by great cheese and delicious wine. What we love about Ben’s side project is it combines all that old world romance with a lot of new world curiosity. And he’s doing it with the whānau. Wife, Lucy, brother Josh and Josh’s wife, Kiri are all involved in Alpine Wine Co. too. 

Ben is an enthusiastic, driven guy ready to share the love of it all with us. Heck, he even called one of his wines ‘head over heels’ he’s that besotted — and quite rightly. It appears he’s living the dream and if I’m honest, it was hard not fall a little more in love with this whole wine malarkey just chatting to him. 

So, pour yourself a dreamy drop of something fitting for a first date and lie back on the chaise lounge. This is the not serious Ben Leen chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

We’d love you to meet Helen Masters, winemaker at the iconic Ata Rangi Martinborough. Boy can she knock out a great tasting glass of vino. 

On a grey, Auckland Saturday morning, Helen arrived at our K Road podcast studio wearing a NY Yankees cap. She explained she’d lost her hairbrush somewhere during a just-completed Australian sales trip and needed the cap to quell an unruly doo.  We weren’t overly fussed. This woman is such a legend she could have arrived in her jimjams and we wouldn’t have minded but it has to be said, the cap only reiterated her rockstar status in the eyes of our Pete who, it turns out, is a major Masters fanboy. 

It’s a valid ailment. Helen Masters and her wine continue to leave wine reviewers and wine collectors in awe. Her wines always rate extremely highly and the winery itself is lovingly revered as one of Aotearoa’s stalwarts. Ata Rangi has been around for 42 years now. In NZ wine dog years that’s a bloody long time so the star status is very real and Helen has been a very significant part of the brand’s history and current reputation. She did earn the title of Gourmet Traveller Winemaker of the Year in 2019 and she’s just been shortlisted for the same title via American wine publication, Wine Enthusiast. There are countless other awards and high-scoring wines but that’s not why we’re here. We wanted to find out who she is. 

Global accolades and cool baseball cap notwithstanding, Helen is particularly down to earth. She loves her veggie garden. She enjoys a gin. She’s super relatable. 

We delighted in her stories of growing up as the youngest of 12 on a small farm on the Kapiti coast. She had us aghast with her unbelievable start to her wine story. At an age when most of us are out playing school sports, Helen was already thinking a career in winemaking might just be a jolly good idea. Her mother agreed, drove her over the Rimutakas and dropped her off at the gates of Ata Rangi, sans even a suitcase and was off back to Kapiti before Helen could change her mind. 

This really was a privilege to take time out and chat with this wonderful winemaker and truly lovely human. 

Pour yourself a gin and tonic (Helen would be pleased) and buckle up. This is the Not Serious Helen Masters chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Tell you what, Matt Dicey has to be one of the nicest dudes in the biz. He’s relaxed. He likes a laugh but is a veritable book of knowledge when it comes to the craft of winemaking and his enthusiasm for the process hasn’t even slightly waned after 30 years of turning grape juice into wine. 

Many of you will know him from his days as the Mt Difficulty winemaker. He was driving that bus for 22 years and almost 80% of the wine produced by the brand was sold here in Aotearoa so it stands to reason Matt is a familiar face in the NZ wine story. 

After the family and subsequent shareholders sold the established winery Matt transitioned to a position he likes to call Caretaker alongside his brother James in a family project. The siblings and their significant others, Ali and Odelle, had bought their own small parcels of land in Bannockburn years ago. Confident they’d be keen to shed the demands of a large operation and return to a boutique production, each family had planted vines somewhere around 2002 with a view that one day they’d have a cool side gig to work on together. Welcome to 2020 🙂 (and covid) 🙄 

Initially established in 2005 and called Ceres, after the Goddess of Harvest and the small South African village where the Dicey kids were born, the family brand needed something of an overhaul to meet the new demands of a market that had shifted somewhat since the side project’s inception. 

Engaging a team to help brainstorm, rebrand and renovate what had been 14 years of work, Dicey was born. It seems obvious. The dictionary definition of the word is “unpredictable and potentially dangerous". And, as you’ll have noticed, it’s their surname. Talk about lucky! It’s an apt adjective for the art growing grapes in an arid dustbowl that has temperature fluctuations of “freeze your balls off” to “how’s the sun stroke?” and struggles to grow weeds.  

They launched Dicey in February 2020, and were due to come screaming, side-drifting into the Auckland market in March — right on lockdown. Talk about unlucky! 

All this back story and branding malarkey aside, how’s the wine? Bloody tasty and we had the pleasure of scoffing a glass straight from a newly released goon bag of premium 2021 Pinot Noir. You heard us — only a flamin’ bag-in-box. Talk about dicey!

It’s a cute little 2L brick that is designed to look like a cube on top of a cube. It’s fondly named Dice by Dicey riffing on that highly flexible surname of theirs and the fact that, alongside a serious commitment to great juice lies a lot of dry humour. We asked Matt why on earth they wanted to put premium Pinot in a box instead of a bottle and it turns ‘earth’ was the optimal word to use. It turns out the old goon sack is something

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

I recently had the pleasure of parking up in the Cabana at Black Barn in Hawkes Bay and riffing on wine life with wine writer Elaine Chukan Brown. I say wine writer but actually they are much more than simply that. 

Elaine’s wine journey started in earnest in 2011 but it’s the life they had in the lead up to then that brings a richness and depth and, at times great humour, to this chat. 

Originally from Alaska, Elaine now calls Sonoma, California home and to spice things up they rocked up to our get together with a bottle of wine from Washington state. That threw me - especially as it was a Sauvignon Blanc blend. You could call that a ballsie move to sit down with a kiwi and pour them a glass of that stuff but what it actually was, was an incredible portal that saw us transcend into chatting about prohibition, the great depression, world war II and the effects it had on the American wine trade as well as Elaine’s time spent training camels. You heard that right but here’s the thing. The training camels came after a stint as a Tarot card reader for a Dial-a-Psychic gig which came after a decade of fishing for salmon. 

Not serious enough for ya? I’m deadly serious when I say this one is a cracker folks. After all those various vocations, Elaine has ended up dedicating their time to being a global wine educator, a wine mentor, a wine lover but mostly an absolute advocate for the people behind the bottle. 

The list of credentials Elaine has earned when it comes to wine is far reaching and includes publishing a wine book, The Wines Of California, assisting with the publication of the 4th and 5th editions of the Oxford Companion to Wine along with freelance writing for all the top wine mags. Perhaps most importantly, they co-founded the Diversity in Wine Leadership Forum, and has advised diversity initiatives in multiple countries around the world. 

They were in Aotearoa for the 2024 Chardonnay Symposium - a two day exploration of everything Chardonnay held in Heretaunga, Hastings by Hawkes Bay Wine. The key theme for the conference was to discuss a ’sense of place’ and Elaine was asked to offer their take on it all, from Canterbury to California or Bannockburn to Burgundy. With deep roots to their own place and an academic background in Philosophy (that came after all the camels), they were one of the very best wine people to help define what a sense of place even means. 

So, shuffle your tarot cards, pour something that makes you think hard and get the cold smoked salmon plated up. This is the not serious Elaine Chukan Brown.

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Once again we step outside the winery and step up to the pass to grab a plate of goodness with two of Aotearoa’s finest hospo folk, Rebecca Smidt & Dariush Lolaiy of Cazador Restaurant & Deli and San Ray all day eatery. 

I’ve had the privilege of calling Bex and Dariush pals for a number of years now and it was a special treat to get them in the hot seat to hear how hospo life brought them together, first as teenagers and friends and then onto lovers, restaurant co-owners and the proud parents of two terrific little kiddos. 

Cazador Restaurant opened its doors in Tāmaki Makaurau in 1987. The vision of Dariush’s parents, Tony and Barbara, this joint became the ‘go to’ for the lucky locals living down one end of Dominion Road. From day one, Cazador established itself as a place that delivers nose to tail dining based on the respectful pursuit of hunting that Tony himself enjoyed and something that he would pass onto his son. 

After 25 years, having established Cazador as a trusted place to enjoy a plate or two, Tony and Barbara were keen to step away from the restaurant. 

Now, a family biz can be a difficult buzz. Retaining the dreams and aspirations of one generation while trying to put your own stamp on the place can be a lot of pressure, especially when there’s quarter of a century of existing vibes that might be perceived as somewhat sacred and untouchable. 

During this chat, Bex and Dariush explain how time spent living and working in Italy, Greece, London and New York led to a deep appreciation of how important that legacy is and what an enormous gift it might be – so long as they didn’t fuck it up. 

This chat covers wine, sherry and mezcal. We work our way through a platter of tinned treats and terrine. We scoff our faces with rabbit rillette and stickleback on sourdough and we wash it all down with a deliciously salty Spanish wine that Bex delights in serving at the restaurant. 

This chinwag covers the challenges of honouring the past while honing a vision for the future. We talk about how important the customer is and how at Cazador, they’re not serving food, they’re serving people and how important it is to invite the customer on the journey rather than ram it down their throat.  

I didn’t realise it, but I first met these two, right as they were starting their journey as the next gen of Cazador. I learn for the first time how that wasn’t an easy period and that the lessons being learned where mammoth. It’s the professional acumen of these two that I had absolutely no idea of the challenges in front of them and all I saw was an incredible young couple, utterly nailing it delivering the good tim

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Aidan Raftery hasn’t had formal training in winemaking but it seems wine has always featured somehow in some way in his life, a life that now happens to be making the stuff in a village somewhere in the Republic of Georgia. 

Born in the UK, he arrived in Aotearoa with his family as a young chap. Serendipity would have it that the family home was perched just around the corner from some wine writer, Master of Wine guy called Bob Campbell. 

With a curiosity of industrial proportions, Aidan took any opportunity to learn about wine from the neighbour, and his folks and to be honest, anyone who would engage in wine chats. 

Fast forward a few years and a need to leave our small island in the pursuit of more adventure and we follow Aidan’s journey to Melbourne where he established one of the first natural wine bars in the city and began to get his hands truly dirty with grape stain. It was here he gave winemaking a crack and fell even further into his own personal very deep wine cave. 

Aidan’s vim and vigour for learning, for making, for tasting and trying, for sharing and for caring about wine is bloody infectious. It’s also given him something of an enviable intrepid urge to follow his nose when it comes to wine adventures and nowhere says wine adventure more than Georgia, where the wine making history is deep, rich and UNESCO protected. 

If you think amphora and clay eggs are a new thing, you’re about 6000 years out of touch. It’s in this unexpected but fascinating part of the world that Aidan has really put down his winemaking roots. 

Chatting with this guy and drinking his wine is like being teleported to an utterly unknown terra firma. Grape varieties we’ve never heard of, inflictions on words that felt unfamiliar and hard to super pronounce all wrapped up in cultural traditions from a whole other time. This is one special chat with one special chap. 

So, put on your Chokha, put down your Panduri so you can pick up a glass and line up by the kvevris, this is the Not Serious Aidan Raftery chat.
__

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

You might think I’ve taken a departure from the wine chats by not talking to a winemaker for today’s chat. Quite the contrary. 

For most of us, the restaurant setting is where we get our best exposure to wines we may not have heard of or tried before. 

The beverage selection is an important income earner for any hospitality joint and the restaurant is an important customer for our beverage producing pals. 

With such genuine simpatico it seems only right that we include those hard-grafting hospo heroes in the chats to get their not serious take on wine too. 

If you live under a rock, you may not know Chef Josh Emett. For the rest of us, he’s the familiar face from the MasterChef tele show, he’s the Chef who shares social media reels of  cooking in his home kitchen, he’s written a couple of cracking cookbooks and he’s the kiwi done good having earned himself a top international accolade or two alongside folks like Gordon Ramsay. 

The anchor to all that action is Helen Emett. She’s one astute, highly motivated woman with a fierce vision for good business and a major funny bone. She’s a hoot and she’s the perfect candidate for a Not Serious chat but believe me when I say she’s bloody serious about getting a dining room perfect and executing extraordinary service in the restaurants she and Josh now own together. You will have likely seen Helen working the floor at Onslow Restaurant and now Gilt Brasserie. 

These two are grafters and they’re givers. They took the time, on a busy Monday morning to sit down and share some stories about their journey and how wine for them, and a sweet cocktail here and there, adds the seasoning to their well-travelled lives. 

It was a pleasure to sit down in the divine dining room of Onslow for this chat. The kitchen was in full prep mode which you’ll sometimes hear! If you haven’t been to Onslow yet, go. And because Covid taught these two nothing, you’ll also find them at their new spot, Gilt on Chancery Lane. 

So, pop your napkin on your lap, pour yourself a sparkling antipodes and grab the knife and fork. This is the Not Serious Helen and Josh Emett chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.