not serious wine chats – Details, episodes & analysis

For this chat, Pete and I had the distinct pleasure of sitting across the table from wine folk Pen Naish and Nicholas Brown of Black Estate. 

The monochrome cool of black and white might underpin this winery but colour oozes from every corner.

Neither of these two started out destined for a job in wine but, like most vignerons in Aotearoa, wine found them. 

When Pen’s Dad stood in a paddock in North Canterbury, the vibes felt right and a deep, honest discussion ensued around establishing a vineyard, winery and, as it happens, a restaurant. 

Ambitious? Yes. Achievable? Clearly. 

A considered black building, designed by architect Richard Naish – also a relative - stands stark on the rolling hills of a wine region known for being sometimes just a bit tricky. It acts as an anchor and it’s fair to say this whanau are now well rooted to this special spot. 

Kids were raised here. Summers have been spent with secateurs in one hand and a barbecue tong in the other. Steve, the chocolate Labrador guards and greets all who come there. 

It’s a blissful scene indeed but don’t be fooled. This is no accident. 

These guys work their arses off and as certified organic growers and makers, their lives are spent managing sites that a lesser grower might politely decline. 

But this is where the rubber hits the road. Nicholas is an experimenter at heart and I suspect digs a challenge. Pen is razor-sharp and grounded. Together they generate a surge of energy that can be felt in the wines they make and the hospitality that is offered when you’re parked up at the Black Estate restaurant – perhaps indulging in truffles sourced from the neighbour Jax at Kings Truffles but definitely always local produce. 

There was discussion mid chats of Pete and I lobbying for a second recording on site at Black Estate that just happens to coincide with truffle season. Logistics pending. Budget negotiations ongoing. Stand by…

Of course we all know I’d spend most of my time cuddling the truffle dogs but that’s just the sort of crazy dog person I am but I tell you what, for a region known for it’s foraging parties and incredible organic produce, being parked up at Black Estate, eating some nosh, patting a dog and pushing a glass of earthy, supple Pinot Noir into my face sure does sound like a good idea for a work trip! 

So, shave a little perigord truffle on your pasta, pour yourself a delightful drink of something clean and fresh from north of Chch, this is the not serious Pen Naish and Nicholas Brown chat.

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
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Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

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If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

For regular listeners to this channel, you’ll know the city of Hamilton features frequently in our Not Serious Chats. I’ve threatened to record a chat here for a while and the lads behind some of the best eateries in the joint generously swapped a management meeting for a sit down with me — and boy did they bring it.  

Mat Pedley, Alex Hudson and John Moughan are the three musketeers intent on delivering humble hospitality to Hamilton like no one else. 

The brains behind a number of established eateries and bars in the Tron, these guys have an  incredible way of seeing what might be missing and working out how to add it to the offering, giving the locals diversity, choice and deeply connected dining and drinking experiences. 

What struct me most about these guys is their relaxed, calm but seriously confident vision for the booze journey they want to share with their locals. 

Neat is a great example. Dark, simple shelves laden with bottles of beverages, labelled like eye-candy greet you when you walk in and there’s no behind-the-bar fit out here. You’ll be sat around a large, minimalist table designed for instigating good bants, be it with the bar keep or the bloke sitting next to you. Lit by a simple rice paper pendant lamp and surrounded by moody tunes played from vinyl on a turntable, you know this gaff is all about what’s in the glass and the good times that come with it. 

We got so not serious about wine for this chat, that we sat there trying whisky instead. And not just one but four incredible spirits that travelled across continents, incorporated history, discovery, curiosity, science, art and culture — pretty much what all good beverage does. 

If truth be told, I was spoiled rotten with the selection that Alex chose – on the spot – to pour while we chatted. All were delicious. All had their own story and one in particular was probably far too precious to share with the likes of me! A Single Malt called Flowermore caught my eye for its un-whisky-like label design and then almost made me faint when Alex mentioned what a bottle will set you back…. Let’s just say, there was to be no spitting that wee sampler. 

Look, these guys are serious aficionados of flavour. From ridiculously tasty pizza at Reggies, where you can watch the Mighty Waikato River meander by from the deck, to a burger at the Last Place while you watch a band go ballistic on stage or a winemaker’s dinner at Mr Pickles with some of NZ’s top winemakers, these guys overdeliver hard. 

So, pop your earphones in, pour yourself a tasty wee dram and settle in as we wait for the Hamilton fog to clear, this is the not serious Mat Pedley, Alex Hudson and John Moughan chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
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If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

You might think I’ve taken a departure from the wine chats by not talking to a winemaker for today’s chat. Quite the contrary. 

For most of us, the restaurant setting is where we get our best exposure to wines we may not have heard of or tried before. 

The beverage selection is an important income earner for any hospitality joint and the restaurant is an important customer for our beverage producing pals. 

With such genuine simpatico it seems only right that we include those hard-grafting hospo heroes in the chats to get their not serious take on wine too. 

If you live under a rock, you may not know Chef Josh Emett. For the rest of us, he’s the familiar face from the MasterChef tele show, he’s the Chef who shares social media reels of  cooking in his home kitchen, he’s written a couple of cracking cookbooks and he’s the kiwi done good having earned himself a top international accolade or two alongside folks like Gordon Ramsay. 

The anchor to all that action is Helen Emett. She’s one astute, highly motivated woman with a fierce vision for good business and a major funny bone. She’s a hoot and she’s the perfect candidate for a Not Serious chat but believe me when I say she’s bloody serious about getting a dining room perfect and executing extraordinary service in the restaurants she and Josh now own together. You will have likely seen Helen working the floor at Onslow Restaurant and now Gilt Brasserie. 

These two are grafters and they’re givers. They took the time, on a busy Monday morning to sit down and share some stories about their journey and how wine for them, and a sweet cocktail here and there, adds the seasoning to their well-travelled lives. 

It was a pleasure to sit down in the divine dining room of Onslow for this chat. The kitchen was in full prep mode which you’ll sometimes hear! If you haven’t been to Onslow yet, go. And because Covid taught these two nothing, you’ll also find them at their new spot, Gilt on Chancery Lane. 

So, pop your napkin on your lap, pour yourself a sparkling antipodes and grab the knife and fork. This is the Not Serious Helen and Josh Emett chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
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If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

One Tuesday morning in Tāmaki Makaurau mid August, Pete, John and I had the chance to sit down at the table at Coco’s Sound Lounge and chew the fat with Rosie Finn of Neudorf Vineyards — and she can chat. 

Rosie almost broke Matt Dicey’s record of such adept conversational flow that next to no editing was required. Dreamy! Matt still holds the record but Rosie was hot on his heels with only two short excerpts ending up on the cutting room floor. 

It was a total treat to chat to this fine wahine who is truly flying the flag for successful succession — quite a thing for the NZ wine industry — all the while being a relatively new Mum herself. 

Rosie’s folks, Judy and Tim Finn (not the musician) started Neudorf in the 1970’s. Like almost all of our wine pioneers that meant a mortgage or two and a lot of fast learning. 

Fast forward to 2023 and their daughter Rosie has stepped into the family biz as her folks step out to enjoy retirement.

Rosie knows how to spin a yarn and in this chat she shares one of the best stories I’ve heard of pairing wine with food. It combines one wine and the cuisine of a Copenhagen based Michelin star restaurant and a night dive in an underwater cave set beneath Takaka Hill in the Kahurangi National Park. 

During our chat we had the pleasure of indulging in a sneak peak at the soon to be released 2022 Neudorf Rosie’s Block Amphora Chardonnay (coming at you 1 October). To say the wine was delicious is an understatement. While we crushed a cup, Rosie chatted away about how a Facebook post from Jude landed her a job with the wonderful wine ambassador Mel Brown at Pop Brixton, London. 

After what looked like a few years of nothing but fun Rosie reluctantly had to leave, unable to secure a visa extension. She returned home and suffered the common culture shock most of us kiwis feel after a few years of cutting loose in Blighty. She dried her teary eyes and took firm hold of the torch from Judy and Tim as the next generation to  drive this incredible family business. 

This was a chat that flowed from the moment we sat down. Rosie Finn is one delightfully funny woman.  So, find yourself a comfy spot, close your eyes and imagine you’re parked up somewhere on the beach in the Abel Tasman. The sun is shining that warming hue of Neudorf yellow and there’s a delicious glass of Chardonnay in your hand. This is the not serious Rosie Finn chat.

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
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If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

On a Sunday afternoon on Auckland’s aromatic Karangahape Road, we welcomed winemaker, Nick Mills from Rippon to the newly christened Coco’s Sound Lounge. In town, for the annual Negociants New Zealand Fine Wine Tour, we were grateful that Nick could squeeze us in for a little not serious chat and a laugh or two. This one is for the winos but it’s also for the ski hounds and the musos.  

I don’t use the term Original Gangster that often but in the case of Nick Mills and his family they are nothing short of Central Otago’s OGs. 

This family’s contribution to their local village goes back four generations and covers sustainable farming, grape growing, winemaking, a music festival that spanned 20 years and showcased some of our favourite musicians and a counter culture ski movement known as Free Skiing. 

Much like the vines that grace the schist slopes of the Rippon site, Nick’s roots go deep. He’s a philosopher both by education and natural curiosity. He’s learned and deeply, passionately invested in anything he puts his mind to.  Had it not been for a serious wipe out just a few months before the 1998 Nagano Olympics, this well known winemaker could have been a well-known Winter Olympian.  He worked through that heartbreak and headed for France where his learnings and love for biodynamic grape growing really took hold. 

For a not serious chat, we definitely had moments of intense reflection much of which was inspired by the absolutely epic 20 year old Pinot Noir Nick brought along for us to enjoy. Between utterly delicious sips we learned about the parallel lives of a ski racer and a winemaker, we learned how to taste for texture and how, as the current custodians of this remarkable place, this family strives to secure their future on the land. 

And let’s not forget how much these mountain people like to party. 

So, pull on your one-piece, pop in your ear buds and tighten your bindings. This is the not serious Nick Mills chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Coordinating a time to record a chat with winemaker Dave Mackintosh in Auckland isn’t so hard. He’s something of a flying winemaker, dividing his time between the Big Smoke where his wife, Caitlin and their kids live, and Hawkes Bay where he makes wine under his newly established Kenzie brand. 

The Mackintosh clan returned home to Aotearoa after a solid fifteen years in Australia. If you’ve spent 10 minutes in a wine bar in Melbourne you may have crossed paths with Arfion, a wine made by Dave in a wine project that also involves his bros, Jimmy and Dad, Brian. 

Family is important to this laddie. Much of the reasoning behind the return to Aotearoa was to explore the legacy left by some stoic Scottish ancestors. Indeed, Kenzie draws its name from Annabella MacKenzie, Dave’s Great Grandmother who survived months in a boat on the ocean, the great depression and the Napier earthquake to put down new roots in the hope of starting a better life. 

She ought to be proud. The wines crafted in her honour pay homage by stylistically challenging the norms while artistically stating their place.

Part of our research before locking Dave in our padded sound studio was to blast out the beats of El Michel Affair and their rendition of the '90's hip hop Wu-tang Clan track Tearz. A tune that resonated so much with Dave he made and named a wine after it.

It was lovely to be introduced to Dave by the good folk at By The Bottle. We chatted away like old pals in a pub. So, pour yourself a wee dram of something bonnie, pack a plate of tatties to go with it and rest up for a wee spell of Coorie. This is the not serious Dave Mackintosh chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Warning: this chat contains sulphur. 

Listen, we’re almost done talking about natural wine. It’s been the most debated movement in the modern wine world since screw caps filled the gap where a cork should go. 

It’s contentious partly because it doesn’t adhere to a specific set of rules for certification and there are such different definitions of what ‘natural’ actually means. It’s possibly also a tad divisive because it made a lot of established wineries feel like they were out of touch and not down with the kids.  

The old guard poo-pooed it as being a ‘fly-by-night’ experimental winemaking fling by try-hard kids that wouldn’t stand the test of time. Many scathingly scoffed at the lack of clarity the wine had in the glass and described the taste as terrible, lacking complexity that was full of faults that basically rendered it undrinkable. The randomness of wine labels lacking all the proper information also ruffled feathers. 

The reality though, is that natural wine as a category has brought a welcome injection of innovation and energy to the industry while paying homage (even if unwittingly) to the heritage and legacy of the wonderful traditions behind the craft that go back hundreds of years. Also, natural wine brands seem to have a common trait of no fear when it comes to designing eye-catching, arty wine labels and, well, we love that stuff.  

These days you’ll find wine bars and restaurants where the wine list is 100% natural wine. So, it feels like the world has accepted the movement is here to stay, thus rendering any further chat on the topic unnecessary. But, after long chats over a sherry or two and some excellent anchovies on toast at Alma, we realised we still had a bit to say on the subject — especially around the definition and the rules around sulphur in wine. 

So, fill your glass with something completely impossible to see through and feel the nature. This is the not serious natural wine chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Many people think Jules is a man. She’s not. Much like winemaker Kim Crawford isn’t a woman. One thing Jules Taylor most definitely is, is a fierce maker of the wines.  She’s got the gongs to prove it including the title of Gourmet Traveller Wine New Zealand Winemaker of the Year 2021.

Unlike most of the winemakers working in Marlborough, Jules was born and raised in Blenheim. Her Mum and Dad still live there and it’s where Jules and George have raised their kids. It’s safe to say the roots of Jules Taylor, both the person and the wine brand are firmly, deeply, sincerely well established in our most well known wine growing region. 

Jules arrived to our podcast studio early and ready to go, despite this sort of thing not being her jazz. She admitted to having lost sleep, worrying about what to say. It’s ironic because she’s a dream to chat to and we had a lot of laughs as well as tasted some pretty great Marlborough wine — and it wasn’t just Sauvignon Blanc.

It’s all fond memories and feels on this chat so grab a glass of something wildly herbaceous and enjoy. This is the not serious Jules Taylor chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

Ben Leen is the winemaker at Amisfield winery in Central Otago but it is his side project, Alpine Wine Co. that we really wanted to talk about.  Ben’s hands-on, small batch production is matched with his big energy sales skills. He’s a winemaker who loves showing his wine and that enthusiasm is contagious which is why you’ll find his wines poured at some top places like Hello Beasty or Salty Pidgin when stocks allow. 

It's fair to say that if wine had its own cupid, that little archer has hit a bullseye when it comes to our Ben. He’s fallen head over heels for the romantic vision of a life spent making and enjoying wine. Those simple ideas of slowing life right down, working with the land and living a life of purpose fuelled by great cheese and delicious wine. What we love about Ben’s side project is it combines all that old world romance with a lot of new world curiosity. And he’s doing it with the whānau. Wife, Lucy, brother Josh and Josh’s wife, Kiri are all involved in Alpine Wine Co. too. 

Ben is an enthusiastic, driven guy ready to share the love of it all with us. Heck, he even called one of his wines ‘head over heels’ he’s that besotted — and quite rightly. It appears he’s living the dream and if I’m honest, it was hard not fall a little more in love with this whole wine malarkey just chatting to him. 

So, pour yourself a dreamy drop of something fitting for a first date and lie back on the chaise lounge. This is the not serious Ben Leen chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.

We’d love you to meet Helen Masters, winemaker at the iconic Ata Rangi Martinborough. Boy can she knock out a great tasting glass of vino. 

On a grey, Auckland Saturday morning, Helen arrived at our K Road podcast studio wearing a NY Yankees cap. She explained she’d lost her hairbrush somewhere during a just-completed Australian sales trip and needed the cap to quell an unruly doo.  We weren’t overly fussed. This woman is such a legend she could have arrived in her jimjams and we wouldn’t have minded but it has to be said, the cap only reiterated her rockstar status in the eyes of our Pete who, it turns out, is a major Masters fanboy. 

It’s a valid ailment. Helen Masters and her wine continue to leave wine reviewers and wine collectors in awe. Her wines always rate extremely highly and the winery itself is lovingly revered as one of Aotearoa’s stalwarts. Ata Rangi has been around for 42 years now. In NZ wine dog years that’s a bloody long time so the star status is very real and Helen has been a very significant part of the brand’s history and current reputation. She did earn the title of Gourmet Traveller Winemaker of the Year in 2019 and she’s just been shortlisted for the same title via American wine publication, Wine Enthusiast. There are countless other awards and high-scoring wines but that’s not why we’re here. We wanted to find out who she is. 

Global accolades and cool baseball cap notwithstanding, Helen is particularly down to earth. She loves her veggie garden. She enjoys a gin. She’s super relatable. 

We delighted in her stories of growing up as the youngest of 12 on a small farm on the Kapiti coast. She had us aghast with her unbelievable start to her wine story. At an age when most of us are out playing school sports, Helen was already thinking a career in winemaking might just be a jolly good idea. Her mother agreed, drove her over the Rimutakas and dropped her off at the gates of Ata Rangi, sans even a suitcase and was off back to Kapiti before Helen could change her mind. 

This really was a privilege to take time out and chat with this wonderful winemaker and truly lovely human. 

Pour yourself a gin and tonic (Helen would be pleased) and buckle up. This is the Not Serious Helen Masters chat. 

not serious wine chats would like to thank our supporters:
Tradecraft
By the Bottle
Antipodes Water Co.
Special thanks to my pal, Benj Brooking of Popular.nz for his help with the editing. An expert filmmaker, editing these chats is being done as one mate helping another. Thanks Benj. You're a legend.

join the chat
instagram | facebook

If you're struggling to put that glass down, perhaps our chats aren't the right ear candy for you. While the chats are not serious, living your best life is a very serious matter indeed and a life fuelled by addiction doesn't sound dreamy at all.
If you think you need a hand, visit the Ministry of Health site for platforms that might help you take the first step towards taking control back. Our warmest wishes for success on that journey.