Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career – Details, episodes & analysis

Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:

• Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style

• Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact

• Why chaos can be good

• Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn

• Why you should learn to “poke the bear”

• Balancing product release speed with quality

• Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design

• Advice for founders on building company culture

• Much more

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Brought to you by:

• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev

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Where to find Vlad Loktev:

• X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vlad’s background

(02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb

(04:28) Skills and mindsets for success

(11:03) Impact-driven mindset

(13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy 

(17:54) “Poking the bear”

(22:46) Psychological tools for leadership

(30:08) Building and scaling teams

(36:12) Letting fires burn

(47:34) Embracing chaos

(54:40) The unsell email strategy

(01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization

(01:05:38) The importance of company culture

(01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management

(01:26:41) Failure corner

(01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth

• Strategies for building viral consumer apps

• Why teens are such a great audience

• Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas

• The challenge of creating durable social products

• His experience working as a PM at Facebook

• Advice for founders on building consumer apps

• Much more

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Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security

• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product

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Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

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Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier

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Where to find Nikita Bier:

• X: https://x.com/nikitabier 

• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier

• Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Nikita’s background 

(06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline

(08:42) Transition to consumer apps

(13:45) The birth of TBH

(16:43) Building for teens vs. adults

(20:00) TBH’s viral success

(32:18) Leveraging live chat

(34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH

(37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook

(42:19) Big-tech product management

(48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”

(51:49) The Tim Cook painting story

(53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture

(58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges

(59:46) Addressing criticism

(01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax

(01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned

(01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas

(01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps

(01:22:35) The VC route

(01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18

(01:26:53) The success of Dupe

(01:31:53) Advice for startup founders

(01:34:14) Work with Nikita

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Jessica Lachs is the global head of analytics and data science at DoorDash, where she’s built one of the largest and most respected data organizations in tech. In her more than 10 years at DoorDash, she has served as the first general manager, responsible for launching new markets; the head of business ops and analytics; and the VP of analytics and data science. Previously, Jessica founded GiftSimple, a social gifting startup, and started her career at Lehman Brothers as an investment banking analyst. In our conversation, she shares:

• How to structure and scale a high-impact analytics organization

• Centralized vs. decentralized data teams

• How to pick the right metric and aligning incentives

• Advice for data people on how and when to push back

• Lessons learned from building a global data team

• How to foster a culture of extreme ownership

• The role of AI in improving analytics team productivity

• Advice for aspiring data leaders without formal training

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Brought to you by:

• Webflow—The web experience platform

• Anvil—The fastest way to build software for documents

• Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-world-class-data-org-jessica-lachs

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Where to find Jessica Lachs:

• X: https://x.com/jesslachs

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-lachs/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jessica’s background

(04:59) Centralized vs. embedded analytics teams

(10:52) The benefits of a centralized analytics team

(15:10) Balancing proactive and reactive work

(20:45) Advice on how to push back effectively

(24:20) Hiring for curiosity and problem solving

(28:57) Coming from a non-traditional background

(34:40) The early days and culture at DoorDash

(40:39) Encouraging cross-functional roles

(44:39) Defining effective metrics

(46:30) Simplifying metrics for better outcomes

(55:28) Focusing on edge cases and fail states

(01:00:12) Managing a global data organization

(01:02:31) Leveraging AI for productivity

(01:05:25) Building diverse and skilled data teams

(01:08:40) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence

• Riley Newman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rileynewman/

• Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

• Imposter Syndrome: Why You May Feel Like a Fraud: https://www.verywellmind.com/imposter-syndrome-and-social-anxiety-disorder-4156469

• Stanley Tang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stanleytang/

• Andy Fang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fangsterr/

• Evan Moore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanmoore/

• How WeDash became the flagship employee program for DoorDash: https://careers.doordash.com/blog/wedash-doordash-employee-program-how-does-it-work

• Leading with empathy | Keith Yandell (DoorDash, Uber): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leading-with-empathy-keith-yandell

• The Rose Code: https://www.amazon.com/Rose-Code-Novel-Kate-Quinn/dp/006305941X

• Libby app: https://libbyapp.com/

• The West Wing on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/West-Wing-Complete-First-Season/dp/B000KZPG04

• Alias on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Alias-Season-1/dp/B00748O13S

• Joseon sunscreens: https://beautyofjoseon.com/

• Innisfree sunscreens: https://us.innisfree.com/

• John Steinbeck quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_steinbeck_103825

• Vanessa Roberts on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-roberts-b8a509a/

• Tia Sherringham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiasherringham/

• Elizabeth Jarvis-Shean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-jarvis-shean-141a7966/

• Regina (Gina) Tarone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/regina-tarone-a565a2/overlay/about-this-profile/

• My Journey (Part 1): I have a job that I would never be hired for: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jessica-lachs_anniversary-datascience-finance-activity-7216912300056727553-mEv6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

• Starting an Analytics Org From Scratch — Lessons From a Decade at DoorDash: https://review.firstround.com/starting-an-analytics-org-from-scratch-lessons-from-a-decade-at-doordash/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Brave Search API—An independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Hari Srinivasan is VP of Product at LinkedIn Talent Solutions, where he oversees LinkedIn Recruiter, LinkedIn Jobs, and LinkedIn Learning. He’s also a frequent guest lecturer at Stanford University. Previously, he served as the CEO and founder of We Created It, which was acquired by LinkedIn in 2014. Hari has a passion for building products, with experience ranging from creating the first U.S. hybrid SUV to developing a No. 1 app and writing a beloved children’s book. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• LinkedIn’s unique business model and org structure

• How to optimize your LinkedIn experience and improve your chances of getting a PM role

• How to adapt to a skills-first talent market

• The story of Hari’s failed first product review, and how he pivoted for success

• Strategies for building and maintaining complex systems

• How to get into product management

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linkedins-product-evolution-and-the

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Where to find Hari Srinivasan:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hsrinivasan1/

• Website: https://www.mindofhari.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Hari’s background

(05:04) How Twitter brought Lenny and Hari together

(06:32) LinkedIn’s positive evolution, and what they did right

(10:14) Specific changes that made LinkedIn’s feed more interesting

(11:12) Understanding the algorithm and what kinds of content perform best

(12:21) The talent solution product

(15:46) The shift to skills-first hiring, and how LinkedIn changed their approach

(20:24) The open-to-work signal, and the newly released open-to-internal-work signal

(22:13) The PM talent landscape, and tips for landing a PM role

(24:55) How to optimize your LinkedIn profile to get noticed by recruiters

(28:38) Hari’s first product review at LinkedIn

(30:38) LinkedIn’s North Star, and how to operationalize the North Star at any company

(33:24) LinkedIn’s members-first value

(35:32) Building and maintaining complex systems

(38:09) The RAPID framework and the Five-Day Alignment framework

(39:51) What LinkedIn looks for in new hires

(40:51) The latest innovations at LinkedIn

(43:16) LinkedIn Learning

(45:00) Hari’s product management course

(48:19) Advice for people hoping to get into product management

(50:40) How to level up your PM skills

(51:57) Hari’s creative side projects 

(55:02) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Tweet from TheCuriousPM: https://twitter.com/zatin_jatin/status/1658616200560254978?s=20

• The Curious PM on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zatin_jatin

• Decision-making at LinkedIn: https://engineering.linkedin.com/blog/2018/03/scaling-decision-making-across-teams-within-linkedin-engineering

• LinkedIn Learning: https://www.linkedin.com/learning

• Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557

• Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: https://www.amazon.com/Tomorrow-novel-Gabrielle-Zevin/dp/0593321200

• An Immense World: How Animal Senses Reveal the Hidden Realms Around Us: https://www.amazon.com/Immense-World-Animal-Senses-Reveal/dp/0593133234

• Star Wars on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/brand/star-wars

• Case 63 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4c9ZKaFtEKweSYOlYvxfvp

• E.T. on Tubi: https://tubitv.com/movies/607451/e-t-the-extra-terrestrial

• BriteBrush: https://www.amazon.com/BriteBrush-Interactive-Smart-Toothbrush-featuring/dp/B07VLL8QH4

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security | Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made | AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech

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Julia Schottenstein is a product lead at dbt Labs, a data transformation company, and an active angel investor in data and infrastructure startups. She first got excited about dbt in 2019 when she was a VC at NEA and decided to make the leap from investor to operator by joining dbt Labs. She also co-hosts the dbt Labs Analytics Engineering Podcast, a show about data trends that impact analytics engineers’ work. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Advice for founders hoping to improve their M&A outcome

• How to strategically think about competition

• How to determine your paid features and have willingness-to-pay conversations

• Why Julia lives by “worse is better” and “tech debt is a champagne problem”

• Lessons from dbt Labs

• What PMs can learn from investors

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/m-and-a-competition-pricing-and-investing

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Where to find Julia Schottenstein:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/j_schottenstein

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-schottenstein-25424318/

• Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4BKMMeVXk4jJnAQSqGSJvE

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Julia’s background

(04:15) How Julia went from VC to working in product at dbt Labs

(08:24) Four things Julia uses to evaluate a company’s potential 

(11:10) How to identify whether or not you have product-market fit

(12:05) Distribution strategies

(13:11) M&A strategies

(15:54) Lessons from the Transform acquisition

(18:01) Competitive values at dbt

(20:25) Keys to dbt’s success

(26:35) An offsite exercise Julia used to help her team internalize upcoming changes

(29:32) Determining what features are included in open source

(31:56) Pricing and willingness to pay

(33:34) Lessons from dbt Labs’s first pricing change

(36:33) Whether or not to be public about selling your startup

(40:08) How to utilize connections during acquisitions

(44:57) How to communicate selling your company

(46:33) M&A market forecast

(47:28) Values at dbt Labs 

(50:14) Lessons from working with strongly opinionated users

(52:02) The importance of shipping, learning, and iterating 

(54:08) How VC skills translate into product

(57:03) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• dbt Labs: https://www.getdbt.com/

• Tristan Handy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristanhandy/

• dbt Labs acquires Transform to enhance Semantic Layer tool: https://www.techtarget.com/searchbusinessanalytics/news/365530993/DBT-Labs-acquires-Transform-to-enhance-Semantic-Layer-tool

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567

• Red strings training clip from Ted Lasso: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVe3Iwy10MA

• Monetizing Innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867

• Madhavan Ramanujam on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan#details

• Pricing survey: https://www.qualtrics.com/marketplace/vanwesterndorp-pricing-sensitivity-study/

• Hunter Walk’s blog post about publicly selling your startup: https://hunterwalk.com/2023/05/13/the-acquihire-market-for-early-stage-startups-is-ice-cold-one-better-strategy-announce-youre-for-sale/

• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214506/

• The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Snowball-Warren-Buffett-Business-Life/dp/0553384619/r

• Sam Walton: Made in America: https://www.amazon.com/Sam-Walton-Made-America/dp/0553562835

• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession

• In Depth podcast: https://review.firstround.com/podcast

• dbt community Slack: https://www.getdbt.com/community/join-the-community/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Brave—The independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Round—The private network built by tech leaders for tech leaders

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Paige Costello is a beloved product leader with a reputation as a remarkable coach and mentor. She is currently the Head of Core Product at Asana, where she leads the group responsible for Asana’s web, desktop, and mobile apps. Prior to that role, she served as the Director of Product at Intercom and, before that, as a Group PM at Intuit, where she kickstarted her product career through their renowned APM program. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• The unique product development process at Asana and how it’s evolved

• The double-diamond framework

• Conscious leadership training, and why every Asana employee learns it

• How to demonstrate confidence and earn trust from skeptics

• Why curiosity and openness may be the most important PM competencies

• How to give feedback using impact statements

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-ask-the-right-questions-project

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Where to find Paige Costello:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/paigenow

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paigecostello/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Paige’s background

(04:38) What Paige is responsible for at Asana

(06:04) The evolution of Asana’s product development process

(09:10) Planning frequency

(11:26) Examples of areas and metric tracking at Asana

(12:46) The double-diamond process and how it’s applied at Asana

(16:53) Asana’s office-centric hybrid work culture and the future of WFH

(21:45) How to garner trust and win over skeptics

(24:45) Why you should befriend researchers

(26:17) How to exude confidence

(29:03) The 3Es framework

(33:43) Advice for early-career PMs

(38:43) Paige’s latest pillars strategy

(40:05) AI at Asana

(41:50) Lessons from Paige’s time at Intuit

(45:53) Challenges new PMs face

(48:55) Challenges Paige has faced in her career

(52:39) Paige’s skill-focused career philosophy

(55:43) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Use This Equation to Determine, Diagnose, and Repair Trust: https://review.firstround.com/use-this-equation-to-determine-diagnose-and-repair-trust

• About conscious leadership at Asana: https://wavelength.asana.com/workstyle-simple-shift/

• The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable/dp/0990976904

• Intuit: https://www.intuit.com/

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

• The Blind Assassin: https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Assassin-Novel-Margaret-Atwood/dp/0385720955

• The Alchemist: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemist-Paulo-Coelho/dp/0062315005

• The Diplomat on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288983

• Fire of Love on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/fire-of-love/1hC7erRfsl3B

• Poe: https://poe.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Brave Search API—An independent, global search index you can use to power your search or AI app | Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life | Superhuman—The fastest email experience ever made

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Jiaona Zhang (JZ) is a product leader with a strong background in consumer products and extensive hiring and management experience. She is currently SVP of Product at Webflow as well as a lecturer at Stanford, where she teaches a graduate-level course on product management. Before Webflow, JZ was Head of Product for the Homes Platform at Airbnb and has also led product teams at Airbnb, WeWork, and Dropbox. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Building a “minimum lovable product” rather than a minimum viable product

• How to create better roadmaps through storytelling

• Top lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow

• The importance of setting ambitious OKRs

• JZ’s first 90 days playbook: how to succeed in a new role

• Advice for early-career PMs

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-minimum-lovable-products

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Where to find Jiaona Zhang:

• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/managing-your-pm-career

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiaona/

• Website: https://www.jiaonazhang.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) JZ’s background

(04:22) Common mistakes new PMs make

(06:44) Why Airbnb Plus didn’t work out, and takeaways from that experience

(10:51) Executing big dreams step-by-step

(13:45) The right way to push back against founders

(16:54) Minimum lovable product vs. minimum viable product

(20:53) What makes a product lovable

(22:20) Advice on roadmapping and prioritization

(28:04) Tips for new PMs to accelerate their career

(29:16) JZ’s top skills and how they have evolved over her career

(31:37) Designing crisp OKRs

(36:09) Lessons from WeWork

(43:01) Winning the first 90 days at a new company

(48:34) Why trust is crucial

(51:48) High-level lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow

(56:38) The one piece of advice that transformed JZ’s career

(58:39) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Mike Lewis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelewis/

• “What working at Figma taught me about customer obsession,” VP of Product Sho Kuwamoto: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-working-at-figma-taught-me-about

• WeWork: https://www.wework.com/

• WeCrashed on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/wecrashed/umc.cmc.6qw605uv2rwbzutk2p2fsgvq9

• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-Solve-Problems-Test-Ideas/dp/150112174X

• The Making of a Manager: What to Do When Everyone Looks to You: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Manager-What-Everyone-Looks/dp/0735219567

• Tress of the Emerald Sea: A Cosmere Novel: https://www.amazon.com/Tress-Emerald-Sea-Brandon-Sanderson/dp/1250899656/

• Arcane on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81435684

• Snoo: https://www.happiestbaby.com/

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Attio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Sri Batchu currently leads growth at Ramp, the fastest-growing SaaS business (and fintech business) in history. Previously, he led growth strategy and operations at Instacart and was one of the first 50 employees at Opendoor, where he built, scaled, and managed a variety of business teams, including analytics, sales, and pricing. During his time there, the company grew from $100M to $5B+ in revenue and to 1,500+ people. In this episode, we discuss:• The surprising tactics behind Ramp’s unprecedented early growth• A breakdown of Ramp’s current growth org and growth channels• Why you need to be “failing conclusively”• Ramp’s unique approach to metrics and measurement• Examples of Ramp’s “secret sauce”: a data- and technology-driven approach to everything• Why Sri prioritizes employee autonomy and flexibility over hours worked• Why team structure is a red herring for growth teams, and what Sri focuses on instead• How to set good North Star metrics, and why you should have more than one• Why Sri prefers payback periods over CAC for measuring investment ROI

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-ramp-sri-batchu

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Where to find Sri Batchu:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/sri_batchu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sribatchu/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Sri’s background

(04:07) Stats surrounding Ramp’s hypergrowth

(06:20) How Ramp set the stage for their remarkable growth

(09:19) New customers vs. customer expansion

(10:20) How Ramp has prioritized data-driven decisions

(12:12) Ramp’s growth engineering team, and how it supports the sales team

(13:41) The structure of the growth team at Ramp

(14:36) The “skunk works” team

(15:49) How Ramp maintains working at such high velocity

(19:11) How Ramp boosts morale and keeps employees engaged and excited

(21:45) How to promote hard work

(25:10) Optimizing efficiency in your growth engine

(27:28) Leveraging PR and fundraising

(29:20) Traditional media vs. newsletters and podcasts

(30:49) Building a repeatable and scalable growth process

(32:28) Examples of good North Star metrics

(37:09) Lower-level metrics

(40:30) When it makes sense to use the North Star framework

(42:03) Why Ramp doesn’t allow signups through personal emails, and how to reach out if you’re in that position

(43:11) Efficiency metrics and volume metrics

(46:49) Payback period vs. CAC for measuring ROI

(48:55) Defining payback period and contribution margin

(49:51) How to sequence growth tactics for B2B

(52:18) Experimentation and the importance of failing conclusively

(58:06) Ramp’s tool stack

(1:00:32) How to hire great people

(1:03:21) The importance of compensating employees properly

(1:06:28) The MECE framework

(1:09:21) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• How Ramp builds product, in Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-ramp-builds-product

• Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/

• Keith Rabois on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith/

• Packy McCormick’s article on Ramp: https://www.notboring.co/p/ramps-double-unicorn-rounds-behind

• Gibson Biddle’s framework: https://gibsonbiddle.medium.com/9-the-gem-model-65c89face5de

• DoorDash’s business model: https://businessmodelanalyst.com/doordash-business-model/

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Mutiny: https://www.mutinyhq.com/

• Gokul Rajaram on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gokulr

• Claire Hughes Johnson on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-stripe/

• MECE principle: https://productfolio.com/mece-principal/

• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

• Stories of Your Life and Others: https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Your-Life-Others-Chiang/dp/1101972122/r

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/everything-everywhere-all-at-once-fa320000-8cf3-46fc-8c45-df5ec67b71f2

• Fellow kettles: https://fellowproducts.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by AssemblyAI—Production-ready AI models to transcribe and understand speech | Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Melissa Tan is an advisor, investor, and growth expert. She’s worked with fast-growing startups like Dropbox, Canva, Grammarly, and Miro, and for the past 2.5 years has been the Head of Growth at Webflow. There, she led the company's self-service business across Product, Marketing, and Growth, in addition to leading the charge on pricing and packaging. Prior to Webflow, she was Head of Growth for Dropbox’s B2B product, where she played a pivotal role in propelling their growth. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Attributes of high-performing teams

• Tips for developing talent and seeking a mentor

• How to create a strong culture of ownership

• Frameworks for hiring PM and growth talent

• Common pitfalls companies face when implementing growth strategies

• Lessons from scaling Dropbox

• The DACI framework for increasing team velocity

• How to actually embrace first-principles thinking

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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-high-performing-teams-melissa

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Where to find Melissa Tan:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/melissamtan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissamtan/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Melissa’s background

(04:12) What’s next for Melissa

(06:45) Lessons learned from Dropbox

(11:49) When to add sales to product-led products and vice versa

(14:28) Managing people with a people-focused and results-oriented approach

(17:14) An example of people-focused leadership

(20:26) The importance of talent development and why Melissa invests in it

(22:26) Tips for finding a mentor

(24:58) Specific questions to ask when you are interviewing for a role

(27:49) Companies Melissa has worked with

(28:33) Attributes of high-performing teams

(31:38) Creating a sense of ownership among team members

(34:36) Building a team-first culture

(36:54) Avoiding burnout by knowing your limits

(39:24) Developing talent and unlocking potential within your organization

(42:45) Melissa’s hiring practices and what she looks for in a product manager

(44:40) The exact interview sequence Melissa utilizes

(49:58) Common pitfalls when creating growth teams

(53:43) “Flying formation” and the DACI framework

(56:48) Who should own revenue

(58:19) When to invest in growth

(1:01:06) What to look for in your first growth hire

(1:04:35) When it’s appropriate to hire an advisor

(1:06:19) First-principles thinking

(1:09:50) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Jiaona Zhang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiaona/

• Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Women-Work-Will-Lead/dp/0385349947

• Tim Ferriss: How to Find a Great Mentor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVo1aZCyfO4

• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375/

• How to Monetize a Freemium Business: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/how-to-monetize-a-freemium-business

• DACI framework: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/daci/

• Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't: https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Eat-Last-Together-Others/dp/1591848016/r

• The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379/

• The Four Agreements: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319

• Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/winning-time-the-rise-of-the-lakers-dynasty

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/

• Webflow: https://webflow.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Brought to you by Mixpanel—Product analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford | Attio—A powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

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Luc Levesque is Chief Growth Officer at Shopify and has advised companies like Canva, Twitter, Pinterest, and Patreon on growth and product strategy. Previously he served as an executive at TripAdvisor, where he built and led the growth team that helped it become the world’s largest travel site. Luc was then recruited by Mark Zuckerberg to Facebook, where he was an executive and held senior product and engineering leadership roles. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• Why you need to become world-class at hiring

• Tips for finding a great growth advisor and assessing their impact

• Why truly great companies focus on impact

• Common mistakes to avoid when building a growth team

• The importance of passion and continuous self-improvement

• Signs your company should explore SEO as a growth channel, and strategies to do so

• Why Mark Zuckerberg personally recruited Luc and what it taught him about the recruiting process

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-growth-advisors-hiring

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Where to find Luc Levesque:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/luclevesque

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luclevesque/

• Website: https://luclevesque.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Luc’s background

(03:31) Luc’s first MT review at Facebook

(07:09) Impact vs. industriousness

(09:20) Facebook’s relentless, personalized approach to recruiting talent

(13:12) Luc’s hiring playbook

(16:56) When to focus on growth and the importance of product-market fit

(18:04) What to look for in a growth advisor

(23:15) The large impact Luc made from a small conversation

(26:52) Advice on compensating advisors

(31:35) How to find a good growth advisor using VCs and your network

(33:33) The importance of having an in-house person and growth advisors as support

(38:15) Tips for becoming a growth advisor

(41:59) The power of SEO 

(45:29) The two buckets of SEO

(49:21) Channels of growth

(51:49) The potential impact of ChatGPT on Google and SEO

(56:04) Advice on hiring an SEO person

(58:19) How long it takes for SEO to make an impact

(1:00:07) Self-reflection, cold plunge, and other tools Luc uses to excel in his personal and work life

(1:06:46) Luc’s famous dinner guild

(1:10:33) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Luc’s blueprint: https://coda.io/@luc-levesque/blueprint-for-leaders-managers-communicate-your-quirks/my-blueprint-9

• Jeff Bezos’s morning routine: https://finty.com/us/daily-routines/jeff-bezos

• Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514

• Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More with Less: https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Brevity-Power-Saying-More/dp/1523516976

• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion/dp/0062937650/

• Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity: https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599

• Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer: https://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Wants-Read-Your-Tough-Love/dp/1936891492

• The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles: https://www.amazon.com/War-Art-Through-Creative-Battles/dp/1936891026

• The Legend of Bagger Vance: A Novel of Golf and the Game of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Bagger-Vance-Novel-Golf/dp/038072751X

• Huberman Lab podcast: https://hubermanlab.com/welcome-to-the-huberman-lab-podcast/

• The All-In Podcast: https://www.allinpodcast.co/

• Renu cold plunge: https://www.renutherapy.com/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.