It Gets Late Early: Ageism in the Workplace – Details, episodes & analysis

Today I've got Jamie Jackson, the brilliant mind behind 'Humorous Resources', 'Millennial Misery,' and 'Horrendous HR,' and the co-host of the HR Besties podcast. She's not just your average HR pro - she's like the standup comedian of the corporate world, using humor to keep us all from losing our minds in the 9-to-5 grind.

Jamie's hilarious social media accounts were born out of the pandemic chaos while working at a healthcare clinic. Talk about a pressure cooker situation! But instead of cracking, she turned to humor. It's like she found the secret sauce to surviving corporate America, and now she's sharing it with all of us poor souls who've felt the sting of a pink slip delivered with all the warmth of a robocall.

So, let’s talk about it! You know that feeling when you're called into a surprise meeting, and your stomach drops to your shoes? Well, Jamie has been on both sides of the table, even standing up to a company owner over a harassment claim. Spoiler alert: it cost her the job. But hey, who needs job security when you've got integrity, right?

Additionally, Jamie's got some juicy stories about being an "elder millennial" (is that even a thing?) and the double standards between older men and women. We also get into the wild world of content creation and how it's not all sunshine and rainbows for the ladies out there. Turns out, the glass ceiling isn't just in the office - it's all over social media too!

Join us for some solid anecdotes about aging, advocating for what's right, and staying true to yourself in a corporate world that sometimes feels like it's gone mad. 

"Layoffs, a lot of times, it’s really just a giant math equation. They may not even be looking at names; they’re looking at salaries. It’s not personal. You were just a part of the equation.” 

- Jamie Jackson

In This Episode:

-The inspiration behind Jamie’s humorous HR accounts

-Misconceptions about the HR role

-Why humanity and empathy are critical in corporate leadership

-The challenges HR faces when handling layoffs,

-The cost of standing up for employee’s rights in HR

-How organizations can navigate layoffs with empathy

-The rise of layoffs in tech and the loss of humanity

-Ageism in the workplace and its impact on career advancement

-Gender disparities in corporate settings

-Age perceptions and prejudices on social media

And much more!

Connect with Jamie Jackson:

-Humorous Resources: https://www.instagram.com/humorous_resources/?hl=en 

-Millennial Misery: https://www.instagram.com/millennial_misery/

-HR Besties Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hr-besties/id1712137225

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website:

In the last year alone, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) received nearly 81,000 charges of workplace discrimination. And here's a kicker – age discrimination made up a whopping 17.5% of those cases! This is not merely a fringe issue in our society.

In today’s episode, I sit down with Keith Sonderling, the EEOC commissioner, to explore the realities of workplace discrimination and the EEOC's role in safeguarding civil rights across the United States. Keith shares the EEOC's mission, which goes beyond enforcing anti-discrimination laws to educational initiatives that prevent discrimination and help employers and employees understand their rights and obligations. 

We're covering everything from the EEOC's birth during the Civil Rights Movement (talk about a dramatic origin story!) to the modern-day villains of age discrimination and AI bias in hiring. And trust me, some of these true stories from the workplace are pretty wild - and have resulted in some stiff penalties for the companies who got caught.

So whether you're the one signing the paychecks, the HR guru trying to keep everyone in line, or just someone who wants to know their rights, this episode is for you. Join us for a conversation that's equal parts enlightening and entertaining – because who said learning about our civil rights in the workplace can't be fun?

"If AI discriminates versus a human, the scale-ability of the discrimination is far greater than any one individual human can do. With just a few clicks, AI can eliminate millions of applications that the algorithm might identify as belonging to a protected class, amplifying bias on an unprecedented scale.”

- Keith Sonderling

In This Episode:

-The EEOC's role in preventing and remedying workplace discrimination

-Common misconceptions about the EEOC’s mission and operations

-Scope and statistics of legal cases on discrimination

-The rise of age discrimination cases: what qualifies as ageism

-The impact of AI on hiring practices and potential risks for discrimination

-Best practices for preventing age discrimination

-Practical advice for employees facing discrimination and the steps they can take

And much more!

Connect with Keith Sonderling:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-sonderling 

-Twitter (X): https://twitter.com/ksonderlingeeoc

-Website: https://www.eeoc.gov/keith-e-sonderling-commissioner

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn:

Ever wondered what it's like to work at Amazon? I mean, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, just like New York, right? It feels like after you’ve done time at Amazon, your meal ticket is punched, and you’ll have a cascade of job offers and great opportunities thereafter. But would you give your soul in exchange for a career at Amazon?

In this episode, I have Kristi Coulter, a brilliant author who wrote the book Exit Interview. She's also a writing professor and an editorial coach, so she helps people get their books into the world.

Exit Interview is about Kristi's experience of 12 years at Amazon corporate. It is an incisive, hilarious book, and as a woman reading it, I felt it was so needed in the literary world. We needed someone to voice what was happening on the inside in corporate employment. 

We get into the sexism and double standards she faced, her tumultuous attempts to advance up the Amazon career ladder, her relationship with ambition, her sobriety journey, and how she has both learned - and proven - that it is never too late to change in life. She also recounts how Amazon - and specifically, Jeff Bezos - responded to the famous New York Times expose of Amazon by Jodi Kantor (who also broke the Harvey Weinstein abuse scandal). You definitely don’t want to miss that story.

And by the way, the brutal culture Kristi experienced at work is not unique to Amazon, but is something people from many in tech can relate to, so I found it cathartic to read.

So, if you’re wondering, "Oh, Amazon, what's it like there?" join us as we peel back the mystique and aura of Amazon. Don’t worry, we’ll get some solid and entertaining Jeff Bezos anecdotes up in there.

"I know there's this myth that people who make that kind of money aren't really working. But I could tell you, at Amazon, those people were working insanely hard. Like so hard that I would think, ‘you know, you're worth tens of millions of dollars, why are you answering emails on Sunday night? … Why don't you go on more vacations?’"

- Kristi Coulter

In This Episode:

-Why Kristi wrote her book 

-Climbing the corporate ladder at Amazon

-What was it like getting a job at Amazon as a 36-year-old woman?

-How do you react to a weird situation in the workplace?

-Living and working in a place where "drinking" is part of the culture

-Kristi's leadership example at a luxury retreat 

-One more humorous interlude 

-The New York Times article and the response from Jeff Bezos

-Does Jeff Bezos actually care about diversity and equity?

And much more.

Resources:

-Exit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career by Kristi Coulter - https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Interview-Death-Ambitious-Career/dp/0374600902

-Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

-Jeff Bezos Responds To 'New York Times' Report On Amazon's Workplace -

Becoming a manager through a promotion or receiving a job offer is a rewarding accomplishment for an employee. While these opportunities can prove exciting for both first-time and long-time managers, not everyone is innately gifted with the skills it takes to be a good manager. Ask just about anyone, and they’ll tell you about that bad boss (or 7) they’ve had across their corporate careers.

In today's episode, the relatable and sharp Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties and I explore what it means to be a manager and how new managers can adapt to their leadership positions. We discuss common workplace challenges managers face and tips on navigating those challenges.  

We also touch on this interesting concept called ikigai, which is the convergence of four areas of life: what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for.

Ashley worked as a lawyer in BigLaw (Ogletree Deakins) and leading companies (including McKinsey and Yum! Brands). She also served as General Counsel and Head of HR for the nation’s largest luxury media company (Modern Luxury). 

Ashley is a LinkedIn Learning instructor on people management and co-hosts the HR Besties podcast (a Top 10 Business Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify - and one of my personal favorites). She has been featured by CNN, Financial Times, HR Brew, and BuzzFeed. Ashley is an expert in providing a crucial skill set that will benefit your organization and redefine people leadership.

"I remember my husband's great-aunt, Norma, saying to me, "It's so good to have friendships of different generations." At that time, I didn't appreciate it. I didn't appreciate it until I was older, and I now have those different ones on different sides."

- Ashley Herd

In This Episode:

-Why Ashley created the Manager Method

-Who is this "Luke" that appears in Ashley's videos?

-How to communicate layoffs with humanity

-The legal consequences of passing on layoff decisions to managers

-Is aiming for promotion the only path to staying employed?

-How to manage intergenerational workforce politics

-Encouraging workplace diversity and mentoring across generations

-How the HR Besties podcast came about

And much more.

Resources:

-Radical Candor by Kim Scott - https://kimmalonescott.com/radical-candor

Connect with Ashley Herd:

-Website: https://www.managermethod.com/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/managermethod/

-HR Besties Podcast: https://www.hrbesties.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

When applying for a job, the hiring process can feel like a waiting game. But what's even worse than waiting for who knows how long or being ghosted altogether is blatantly experiencing age bias while in an interview with a recruitment officer. That's what today’s guest, Vern Six, experienced, which he shared in a LinkedIn post that resonated with many people. In fact, the post went beyond viral, getting millions of views and garnering national media attention.

What happened? Vern had a recruiter inform him that he's supposedly too old for a software developer role. He couldn’t believe that "a young whippersnapper" in his twenties had the nerve to condense his 37 years of experience into such a dismissive statement. 

Vern is an experienced Full-Stack Software Engineer and Project Manager with a demonstrated track record of leading technology projects to successful completion in diverse sectors. But he's over 50, and it turns out, that's a big issue for many recruiters.

Vern is here today to share the story behind his viral post, and the whirlwind that has happened since then. I'm sure many of you can relate to his encounter with a much younger interviewer and how their conversation ended.

Join us as we discuss the issue of ageism in tech and what we can do to spread awareness about the value that older workers bring to the workplace. 

"People just think that once you're kind of pigeonholed in a particular stack, that's the way you are, and you're not going to move away from it. It's just not true."

- Vern Six

In This Episode:

-The background behind the viral post and what's happened since then

-Vern's experience being an "old guy" in tech

-A deluge of love and hate for Vern's post

-Why is ageism prevalent in the tech industry?

-The value of older workers and their vast experience

-A difference in perception of age bias between technical roles and sales roles

-Vern shares his career path and current business venture

-When did Vern start feeling the fear of ageism? 

-The extent to which Vern discusses ageism beyond his viral post

And much more.

Resources:

-Vern's Viral Post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7167946832742928385/

-LinkedIn Group – Inclusive Futures: Combating Ageism & Discrimination https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14418151/

Connect with Vern Six:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vernsix/

-Website: https://purposebrewcoffee.com/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly -

As more people live longer, consumer brands need to consider the needs of the older population. Companies that neglect senior consumers, especially the Baby Boomers, can end up missing a massive opportunity to attract and retain a growing market and make a ton of money along the way.

Older generations, those 50 and older, make up 51% of consumer spending. Despite the prevalence of youth in advertisements, older people spend way, way more money than younger generations (because they have more disposable income). Like young people, older folks also want to learn about brands to stay informed on new and significant trends. So, smart brands will soon wake up to the fact it is time to tap into the growing senior market and leverage the power of older consumers. The longevity economy, the largest and fastest-growing market in the world, is an opportunity marketers can't afford to ignore. 

My guest today is Brian Clark, a digital marketing and tech entrepreneur, proud Gen X’er, and author of Longevity Gains, a Substack newsletter about the longevity economy. Join us as we discuss the massive demographic shift that's about to happen, why people should actually be excited about getting older, and the need for intergenerational harmony. We have a lot of fun along the way, too. 

"You hit 50, and I'm telling you, I'm living proof you get happier. And the happiest decade of life is your 70s."

- Brian Clark

In This Episode:

-What is the longevity economy?

-Why are we now becoming more aware of ageism?

-Are marketers deliberately ignoring older consumers? Why or why not?

-Which companies are attracting and retaining older consumers?

-The need for intergenerational harmony

-Why many people are not excited about growing older

-Where can companies get insights on marketing to older consumers?

-Hope for the older generation and those who are getting there

And much more.

Resources:

-Further: Midlife Health, Wealth, and Personal Growth Newsletter: https://further.net/

-The Longevity Economy by Dr. Joseph Coughlin: https://longevityeconomy.com/

Connect with Brian Clark:

-Website: https://www.longevitygains.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thatbrianclark/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/

-LinkedIn: @maureenwclough -

Are you yearning for a more fulfilling midlife? Turning 40, 50, or 60 is a big deal, and a bit scary for many people. However, we can shift our mindset to view it as something hopeful: the beginning of our second adulthood. 

Instead of thinking of it as a period of decline, we can embrace this period and even begin to feel happier with each passing year. We can start redefining who we are beyond our bodies or personalities. Think of it as a transition period and a space for new beginnings.

Easier said than done? Well, I have someone with me today to show us what’s in store for people crossing the midlife mark. After listening to this episode, I'm certain that you will be more excited about what’s next in life. 

Join me in this meaningful conversation with MEA co-founder and poetic Chief Education Officer Jeff Hamaoui. He is a gentle and empathic facilitator, a business innovation veteran, and a community builder who has taught sustainability courses at Wharton, Berkeley, and Stanford.

MEA Wisdom (formerly known as Modern Elder Academy) is the world’s first midlife wisdom school. This special school helps you embrace change and thrive in times of transition, equips you with the tools to ignite your life with purpose, and unearth your wisdom, and unlock your hidden potential, all while embracing your second adulthood.

Jeff has opened my eyes to new possibilities, and I'm excited to head off sometime soon to Baja to join their in-person workshops and enjoy every moment on a sun-drenched stretch of the Pacific, far away from the usual day-to-day worries!

"Transitions is how we handle change. That's it. And the way we handle change in our lives determines whether we grow or shrink."

- Jeff Hamaoui

In This Episode:

-What is the Modern Elder Academy (MEA Wisdom)?

-What is a transition?

-The three key factors of healthy aging

-What is the experience like at MEA Wisdom?

-How Jeff met Chip Conley and discovered an idyllic home

-What is regeneration, and how does it apply to human beings?

-Finding your wisdom and purpose as you age

And much more.

Resources:

-Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wiser-than-me-with-julia-louis-dreyfus/id1678559416

-Life is in the Transitions by Bruce Feiler: https://www.brucefeiler.com/books-articles/life-is-in-the-transitions/

-Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones: https://media.netflix.com/en/only-on-netflix/81214929

-Regeneration by Paul Hawken: https://regeneration.org/the-book

Connect with Jeff Hamaoui:

-Website: https://www.meawisdom.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hamaoui-a3318

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

It is a popular opinion among some people of the younger generations that baby boomers have gotten all the good stuff and left nothing but a broken system for future generations. But boomers, now in their older years, are facing something new and decidedly less good: ageism. 

Should we feel sorry for them? Should we advocate on their behalf, and on behalf of our future selves? Well, according to my guest today, the answer is a big, fat “nope!”

I’m joined by Chad Sowash, the co-host of “HR's Most Dangerous Podcast” – The Chad & Cheese Podcast. I had no clue how the episode would unfold, letting Chad take the reins…and what happened certainly surprised me.

Chad has worked in the HR, Talent Acquisition, and HR Tech space for over 20 years, consulting for hundreds of Fortune 500 companies like AT&T, Lockheed Martin, and The Ford Motor Company, to name a few.

Join us as we discuss controversial workforce issues. If you want to get insights into the darker, more challenging side of the multigenerational workforce – and also hopefully have a good laugh while pondering your opinion on these issues – today's episode won't disappoint! 

Fair warning, though: if you're uncomfortable with profanity, or offended by the suggestion that the boomers had it coming, this conversation might be too dangerous for you!

"When we start to see the boomers move out, 'cause they're a very large population, there's going to be that huge sucking sound that actually pulls us all UP! If we haven't been there, we're going to get pulled up into those positions, and companies aren't going to have a choice. Where they do have a choice, and they should be investing now, is in their future leadership and being able to get them up to speed so that on Day One, they don't have this huge skills gap."

- Chad Sowash

In This Episode:

-Why Chad says boomers need to get out of the workforce

-It’s five o’clock somewhere vibes

-Why should a listener care whether ageism exists or not?

-How long can an individual actually stay in the workforce?

-Whose responsibility is it to address the skills gap?

-Should we focus on ageism? 

-What happens when age intersects with other marginalized group status

-Why Chad believes we should put our energy elsewhere instead of fighting ageism

-Will the millennials (or any generation) be able to dismantle age stereotypes?

-Millennials vs. Gen Xers - the ultimate standoff 

-What's the real issue here, and how do we solve it?

And much more.

Resources:

-Research: How Bias Against Women Persists in Female-Dominated Workplaces by Amy Diehl, Amber L. Stephenson, and Leanne M. Dzubinski: https://hbr.org/2022/03/research-how-bias-against-women-persists-in-female-dominated-workplaces

Connect with Chad Sowash:

-Website: https://www.chadcheese.com/

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadsowash/

-Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/the-chad-cheese-podcast/id1211760335

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Many companies are aware of the importance of promoting DEIB in the workplace. It's where you implement measures to ensure your employees feel respected and are treated fairly in an inclusive environment where they can feel comfortable as themselves - and in so doing, create optimal business outcomes.

However, many companies fail miserably when it comes to implementing their so-called DEIB programs. Why is that so? Let's get insights from someone who understands exactly what it takes to finesse your DEIB recipe to get the best possible outcome. 

Today's episode features Amelia Ransom, Smartsheet's VP of DEI. Smartsheet recently achieved 100% on the Human Rights Campaign’s Corporate Equality Index, a survey that evaluates corporate policies and practices pertaining to LGBTQ+ workplace equality - but as you’ll hear, Amelia doesn’t think that means their work is done.

Join us as we discuss this topic of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in the workplace. You’ll learn the three-part framework Amelia thinks is optimal for sustained success, how we can reframe our thoughts about generational differences at work, and why Amelia has mixed feelings when it comes to the overall outlook for DEIB in the corporate realm. 

"Here's the challenge with DEI if we're being honest: DEI tends to experience a renaissance at the expense of life. So we tend to pay more attention to DEI when a tragedy occurs, when a war happens, when the police are violating the rights of black people, like, name it."

- Amelia Ransom

In This Episode:

-How Amelia got into DEI

-What are the current trends in DEI, and what exactly does DEI stand for?

-What does it take to build a genuinely inclusive culture?

-Why do most DEI initiatives neglect to include age?

-Smartsheet receives accolades for hitting the mark on DEIB 

-Amelia shares a fantastic analogy about how people can implement DEIB the right way

-What hope is there for the future of DEIB?

-How does Amelia set DEI goals organizationally?

-What are the red flags to watch out for when looking for work?

-When people say one thing, but they mean something else 

And much more

Resources:

-Corporate DEI strategies are too focused on hiring. Here’s what to do instead: https://www.fastcompany.com/90890663/corporate-dei-strategies-are-too-focused-on-hiring-heres-what-to-do-instead

-Leading with Pride: Smartsheet achieves 100% on the Human Rights Campaign’s Corporate Equality Index: https://www.smartsheet.com/content-center/inside-smartsheet/diversity-equity-inclusion/leading-with-pride?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=linkedin&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=

Connect with Amelia Ransom:

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ameliaransom/

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly -

Do you love jewelry? I do! But more than the jewelry, I love how today's guest makes beautiful jewelry accessible to many people. 

Mariana Chambers founded Cut + Clarity, a premier destination for customizable, fine jewelry sustainably crafted in NYC. As an immigrant from Buenos Aires, Argentina, Mariana lives out passion and tradition in every aspect of her life.   

Over the last two decades, Mariana has created jewelry collections for world-class brands and retailers. In 2017, as her family grew, so did Mariana’s desire to leave her daughter with a legacy she could be proud of—one that showcases her immigrant roots and the value immigrants create in local economies and throughout the country.

Today, we talk about Mariana's journey through building a business anchored in her mission and vision to uphold artisanal craftsmanship while improving the lives of people in the community. 

And while she loves making handcrafted jewelry, Mariana knows she has to leverage technology to grow her business further. She found a way inside the tech space, proving that an immigrant woman with an indomitable spirit can achieve astronomical success.

Join me in wishing Mariana the best of luck for her Techstars demo day pitch on January 11, 2024. 

"I envision a world where the value that we place on goods has as much to do with the actual thing that we're buying but also has much to do with how our purchase affects our community."

- Mariana Chambers

In This Episode:

-How Mariana found her way into the tech industry

-A fantastic display of Mariana's indomitable spirit

-Mariana's biggest takeaway from the hackathon

-Cut + Clarity mission and vision

-The reason for Mariana's passion to create beautiful  jewelry

-Current status of funding for women founders

-Mariana's advice for people who want to pursue their dreams

-What is there to love about getting older?

And much more

Connect with Mariana Chambers:

-Website: https://cutandclarity.co/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cutandclarityco/

-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cutandclarityco

-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariana-russo-chambers-she-her-174b72a/

-TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cutandclarityco

Connect with Maureen Clough:

-Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/

-YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1

-Website: itgetslateearly.com -