Gangland Wire – Details, episodes & analysis

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode of Gangland Wire Crime Stories, retired police detective Gary Jenkins speaks with former FBI agent Mark Sewell, who delves into his investigation of the notorious Gold Club in Atlanta and its ties to organized crime. Mark shares his journey from the Marine Corps to the FBI, detailing how his training prepared him to tackle organized crime. The discussion highlights the world of strip clubs as a major revenue source for criminals, drawing parallels to his early police work in Kansas City. At the heart of the conversation is the Gold Club, owned by Steve Kaplan, who turned it into a hotspot during the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, attracting celebrities and high-profile figures. Mark describes the criminal activities that took place, from credit card fraud to connections with the Gambino crime family. Mark reveals the challenges of infiltrating the club and gathering evidence, including working with strippers as informants and tracking financial transactions. He also discusses key figures in the Gambino family, such as Mikey Scars DiLeonardo and Steve Kaplan's partnerships with corrupt police officers and mob players. Click here to buy Mark's book Investigating America's Most Notorious Strip Club: The FBI, the Gold Club, and the Mafia Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to "buy me a cup of coffee" To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript 0:00] Well, hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit Detective and later Sergeant. I've got this podcast, Gangland Wire, and we look into the mob. Today, I have a great story, a real mafia story. You know, and we saw this in Kansas City. These guys love these strip clubs because there's a lot of money to be made out of strip clubs. And maybe some of you have heard of the gold club down in Atlanta. When I first got Mark's book, our guest, you know, I thought I remembered that there was all these Patrick Ewing and all these big-time basketball players going there. And it was a hell of a scandal, but I didn't remember much about it, but Mark Sewell. Welcome Mark. I really appreciate you coming on the show. [0:46] Well, Gary, you're, you're very welcome. I've been a fan of your podcast and your media work for a while too so i'm glad to do this thanks for having me well good and i told you before like you know we had the same thing in kansas city and these bobsters they love strip clubs there's a lot to to make out of a strip club besides the money besides a skim besides blackmail on people possibly and and all kinds of things can be made for the mob out of a strip club and and you dive right into the middle of it. Now, Mark, your first office was down in Atlanta, but before that, tell us a little bit about your history and what led you to join the FBI. Sure. Shortly after high school, Gary, I joined the Marine Corps out of the Houston, Texas area, 1987. And I stayed in the Marine Corps until 1997. During that time, I was able to earn a commission. [1:45] So when I left the Marine Corps, I was a young captain in the Marine Corps. And I was stationed in Honolulu, Hawaii, or Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii. But I recruited into the FBI out of the Honolulu office there. And that recruiter, FBI recruiter,

In this episode of Gangland Wire, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit Detective Gary Jenkins engages former FBI agent Fred Graessle, who shares insights from his thirty-year career with the Bureau. They discuss Graessle's early experiences in Cleveland during a tumultuous period of organized crime, focusing on significant cases such as the violent conflicts involving Italian and Irish mobs. Fred tells the famous story about the stolen informant list how it contained the name of John Curley Montana, and how this information forced Jimmy the Weasel Fratianno in as a cooperating witness. Fred recounts the chilling details of John Curly Montana's involvement with the kidnapping and murder of businessman Henry Podborny, illustrating the complexities of criminal conspiracies and the challenges of law enforcement. The episode also highlights the importance of informants, the rigorous investigative work required, and the collaboration among law enforcement in tackling organized crime, offering listeners a fascinating glimpse into federal investigations. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to "buy me a cup of coffee" To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript Welcome to Gangland Wire [0:03]Gangland Wire. I am retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit, Detective Gary Jenkins. I even got promoted to sergeant before I left and went back to the intelligence unit for a period of time. Now I've turned podcasters, y'all know. And I have one of my many great expert former FBI agents. You know, we've had a lot of them on here today. It's Fred Grassley. Fred, welcome. Thank you very much, Gary. Now, Fred, did I get your last name pronounced right? It's Graessle. But anything close to that will work. Call me anything but late for dinner, right? I'm notorious for butchered names, as these guys know. Anyhow, Fred, Fred and I had a meeting not too long ago for lunch, and he had gotten hold of me. He's retired out of the Cleveland office or Northwest Indiana office. I can't remember which office you retired out of. Northwest Indiana. Northwest Indiana. And he moved to Kansas City, retired to Kansas City as a company. So I'm going to let Fred tell you a little bit about his background and his career in the FBI and a little bit of post-FBI, because I think that's got to be interesting. So, Fred, tell us about yourself. [1:21]Sure. I went to Indiana University and got a degree in accounting specifically to qualify myself to be an FBI agent. That was something I wanted to do ever since I was a small child. I graduated in 1973, went into public accounting for a couple of years, passed the CPA exam, and applied with the Bureau and got in pretty quickly in August of 1975 and was a special agent. For 30 years during that point in time. I spent my first 10 years. [1:56]For you guys that don't know, that was the route, one of the three routes into the FBI back in those days. Back at that time. They've added language skills since then, I think. But to be a lawyer or an accountant or a former law enforcement with two or three, four years of experience was the route to go in the FBI. So that's correct. [2:18]Anyhow, go ahead, Fred. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I spent my first 10 years in Cleveland, and that's where this story is going to take place. But I spent the last 20 years in Northwest Indiana, first in Gary, Indiana, and then we moved out of Gary into Merrillville,

Dean Jobb, author of “A Gentleman and a Thief,” discusses his passion for writing about true crime stories and bringing history to life creatively. He focuses on the Jazz Age thief, Arthur Barry, known for daring jewel heists and his gentlemanly demeanor during crimes. Jobb delves into Barry’s heists, interactions with high society, and relationship with his wife, Anna Blake. The lack of sophisticated investigative techniques in that era allowed Barry to outsmart law enforcement, adding a thrilling element to the narrative. The cat-and-mouse game between Barry and Chief Detective Harold King highlights Barry’s antihero persona, making him a character that readers might root for despite his criminal activities. click here to buy Dean Jobb’s book A Gentleman and a Thief: The Daring Heists of a Jass-Age Thief. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! [0:00]Guys, this is Gary Jenkins. As you all know, you regulars know, I’m a retired intelligence unit detective of the Kansas City Police Department and now a podcaster. And I have a couple of documentary films that deal with the Kansas City Mafia. But today we’re not talking about me. Today we’re talking to Dean Jobe. He wrote a heck of a book. The publicist for the book producer sent me a copy of the book. I don’t read all these guys, as you know, but I do start reading them and I make notes from them. But this one, I started reading it and I loved it. I was hooked. I read the whole thing all the way through. It’s called A Gentleman and a Thief, The Daring Jewel Heist of a Jazz Age Rogue, Arthur Barry. Now, Arthur Barry was a jazz age rogue, if there ever was one. So let me, I’m gonna read you a review before we start talking. A top shelf work of true crime, Job tells Barry’s tale with both rigor and pathos. Painting a tender portrait of a crook who was never fearsome. [1:02]This is liable to steal the reader’s hearts. That’s from Publishers Weekly, and it is a great book. There’s no doubt about it. So, Dean Jobes, welcome, and start off talking a little bit about your own writing history and how you got onto this story and some background on you, and then we’ll talk about the book. Well, I’m a former journalist, and over the years I’d written books. My beat as a reporter was covering the courts, covering criminal trials and anything going on in the courthouse. And my background was in history, and the two kind of collided in a nice way that I started writing features about old cases in Nova Scotia, Canada, where I live, and just got hooked with the storytelling, the way that true crime can give you a window on the past and dramatic events, interesting storylines. But you can also learn a lot about history. So about 10 years ago, Algonquin Books, my publisher, published Empire of Deception, and it was about a Chicago con man in the 20s, the jazz age. I love the era. Connection to me was when his Ponzi scheme collapsed, he hid out here in Nova Scotia. So I had some local ties to that story. [2:12]My last book was called The Case of the Murderous Dr. Cream about a Victorian era doctor who murdered as many as 10 people, most of them women, in three countries over a 15-year span. And it’s subtitled The Hunt for a Victorian Era Serial Killer because that was my focus. I wanted to know how he got away with it, which led me to understand a lot about the horrible plight of women in the Victorian era...

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary gives an overview of the La Cosa Nostra in Dallas, Texas. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Remember to click on www.BetterHelp.com/gangland for 10% off Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup  click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here!  Transcript GARY JENKINS 00:00 Well welcome all you Wiretappers out there back here in studio Gangland Wire. As you can see, I don’t know why I say that each time. I’m going to look at the Dallas family now. Dallas. It was part of the Midwest families of those Dallas was they weren’t really connected to Kansas City or Chicago. They were more connected if anybody to Carlos Marcello down in New Orleans, you know southern people. There’s a little bit of action down in Houston and a regular family in Dallas, the first man who be like The Godfather, shall we say the first one from Sicily was a Carlo Paraino to Carlo Paranio came to the United States from Sicily in 1901, with his brother Joseph who will work with him and become his underboss. As he formed a family. They first settled in Shreveport, Louisiana, which is real close to Dallas. I don’t know if you know how close that is, but it’s real close. He began the Dallas faction in 1921, with Joseph as his underboss he will be described as mob historians look back as the original head of the mafia in Texas. Carlo Piraino was born in Corleone, Sicily in 1876. At the same hometown as one of the early New York bosses Giuseppe Morello. He married Carlo Pariano married an 18 year old Italian girl in 1903. They had a son, Angelo and 1904. By the time Carlo and his brother Joseph moved to Dallas. It was probably 1905 Six after Angela was born. The April 1910 census says that the family lived temporarily at 7744 Main Street in Dallas. That household had Carlo and Clemencia, which would be the young 18 year old girl from Sicily that he married his son Angelo, and his brother Joseph Piraino, when his bride Lina Carlo ran a real estate business out of his house and Joseph worked as a grocery salesman, supposedly, Joseph wouldn’t really settled in Texas, he moved back to Louisiana for a while. And then by 1914 or 15, he and his family came back to Dallas. Prohibition takes off and of course, they start getting into that and bootlegging and running speakeasies and, and organizing all that all the way up to the Midwest, everybody did throughout the whole United States. You know, that’s the mother’s milk for the mafia throughout the whole United States. So the National Crime Syndicate as we began to know what to buy the 80s and 90s was formed out of prohibition, Carlo dies of natural causes in 1930. And Joseph takes over the family and becomes a boss. He owned a lot of bars and gambling operations, of course, and some labor rackets in construction business and which has begun in Dallas over the years has underboss was Joseph Civello. Joseph Civello was born in 1902. And he was a native born he was born in West West Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana. And Baton Rouge is even closer to New Orleans and really almost part of New Orleans. So definitely connections back to the New Orleans family. His father was a farm laborer and came to the United States around 1900 and had a whole bunch of brothers and sisters and Joseph Civello. His father, turnips Abello,

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary Starts a six-part series documenting the life and crimes of the marijuana smuggler kingpin Jimmy Chagra. In this first episode, Gary starts a story that will eventually end with the 1979 murder of Texas Western District Court of Texas Judge John Wood, aka Maximum John. This investigation became the FBI’s most expensive operation since the JFK assassination. The Bureau collected 500,000 pieces of information, conducted 30,000 interviews, and had hundreds of hours of recorded conversations. In the end, the government convicted Woody Harrelson’s father, Charles Harrelson, of being the trigger puller, Harrelson’s wife for obtaining the murder weapon, a lawyer named Joe Chagra for conspiracy, and Elizabeth Chagra, the wife of marijuana smuggler Jimmy Chagra for delivering the payment to the wife of the hitman, Harrelson. The government charged the mastermind behind this plot, a marijuana smuggler named Jimmy Chagra. Jimmy Chagra hired famous Las Vegas mob lawyer Oscar Goodman, and in Goodman’s biggest win ever, the jury found him not guilty. Folks, get ready for a ride because I am taking you down many twists and turns through the seamy underbelly of the southwest Texas underworld. To give you an idea of where we are going, let’s start back to the 1960s. The 1960s counterculture demanded Marijuana, and the descendant of a Lebanese Immigrant started smuggling marijuana and made millions. His brothers, Joe and Lee Chagra went to law school and practiced criminal law in El Paso. Lee Chagra became the go-to lawyer for drug smugglers along the border. Richard Nixon started the war on drugs. An attorney named James Kerr went from private practice into the U.S. attorney’s office, and he is assigned to a court overseen by a hanging judge named John Wood, aka Maximum John, because of the draconian sentence he hands down. Jimmy Chagra is bubbling to the top of the DEA hit list because of his larger-than-life persona and gambling habits in Las Vegas. A tip to all you big-time criminals, keep a low profile. This story contains the attempted murder of AUSA James Kerr outside his home, the murder of Lee Chagra shortly after, the arrest of Jimmy Chagra, and the murder of Judge John Wood. The investigation of these events was the most extensive and expensive FBI investigation since the JFK case in 1963. They will conduct over 30,000 interviews, gather 5000,000 pieces of information, and record hundreds of hours on hidden microphones and wiretaps. I will start with El Paso because that city is just as much a character in this story as the individuals. El Paso has long had the reputation as a wild west kind of town. El Paso earned this reputation over its long checkered history. It is an old town, and the Spanish built a mission here in 1659. El Paso del Rio Grande del Norte, or the Pass of the Great River of the North, became an important trading center on the south bank and will be renamed Ciudad Juarez. After Sam Houston and other settlers fought off Mexican troops, they formed the nation of Texas. Missouri merchants split off from the Sana Fe trail to carry trade goods to Juarez and south to Chihuahua City. Smugglers, bounty hunters for Comanche and Apache scalps, gamblers, and adventurers found a home in El Paso. Of all the old west cities, only El Paso maintains the reputation of being a wild city in modern times. At one time, the Director of U.S. Customs said that if he stopped all smuggling through El Paso, the economy of both sides of the border would collapse. DEA made El Paso the center of all their nationwide intelligence gathering about the international narcotics smuggling trade. The 1970s Drug scene During the 1970s, under President Richard Nixon, the United States started the never-ending war on drugs and promoted draconian laws to deal with drug organizations called Kingpin laws.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. During the 1940s, an Outfit turncoat named Willie Bioff implicated all the Outfit’s higher echelon in an extortion scheme. They had infiltrated labor unions connected to the film business and started extorting money from Major Motion Picture Studios. After they went to prison, Anthony Accardo was left. Paul Ricca had a plan to run the Outfit through Accardo. Listen to hear that plan. This episode was brought to you by BetterHelp Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup  click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! 

Retired intelligence detective Gary Jenkins interviews former Mob Wife, Lisa Calabrese Swan, about her life with Frank Calabrese Jr. and the Calabrese family. Lisa takes the listener from her first days meeting a young, exciting, handsome man named Frankie Calabrese. She did not know or even understand what his family was all about. She describes the gradual realizations she experienced as she saw Frank Calabrese Jr. becoming more involved in the Outfit life as he descended into an addiction to cocaine. She stuck by him like any good Outfit wife until she could not handle the stress. Losa Swan found life as a Mob Wife to be anything but glamorous and exciting. Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Get the book by Lisa Swan by clicking on the title, Chicago Swan Song. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Remember to click on www.BetterHelp.com/gangland for 10% off Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup  click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here!  Transcript SPEAKERS GARY JENKINS, Lisa Swan   00:00 My husband was dealing cocaine and using cocaine and I would find bags of cocaine in his closet in his drawers, and I was totally against drugs. And I would just dump everything in the toilet 1000s of dollars of cocaine in the toilet. And it was something that didn’t belong to him or he was selling for somebody else. And any time I looked, I found it. And I made sure I got rid of it. Yeah, I think was he was gone for a weekend, or he didn’t come home one night. So I packed all this stuff and put it on the front steps. And when his friend went to drop him off, he goes, is that a suitcase and Frank is like, yeah, keep going.   00:40 Welcome all you wiretappers, good to have you back here in the studio. And as you can see, if you’re on YouTube, I have two special guests. Now one of them. You guys all know cam Camillus Robinson and the other you may not know, but you may know something about her ex husband, Frank Calabrese Jr. And her name is Lisa Swan. And Lisa and my friend cam have partnered up to write a book about her life with a mob I believe it’s called and married with a mob what’s the name of it? Chicago Swan Song: a mob Wife’s Story. Been through a couple iterations of the title but but that one really sort of summed up Lisa’s story. Chicago Swan Song: A Mob Wire’s Story. Okay, great. Well, welcome. They said they really had anxious to get your story. Thanks, Gary. How did you guys first get together? Me and Cam are me and Frank, where are you? and Cam first? How did you?   01:35 So um, my ex husband and I are very, very close. We’re best friends. And he suggested that I do a do a interview with the guys. And I had a lot of fun. It was very cathartic to talk about stuff and throw in a little humor. And then I talked to Ken because he wanted to do another spot. And I said, Hey, can we can we write a book? Can we do something with it? Listen, go bigger. And he’s like, I was gonna ask you the same question. Cool. So the rest was history. And I did a lot of zoom calls from where I worked, because I work a lot. And we we plugged through and got it done. Good. The second question would be you and Frank Calabrese Jr. How did you guys get together? Do you guys go to high school together your high school sweetheart? Or will your older? No, we lived in the neighborhoods next to each other. So I was in Galewood,

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. David Berman was a Jewish-American organized crime figure active in Sioux City, Iowa, the Twin Cities, and the Las Vegas Strip. He was a casino gambling pioneer in Las Vegas, a partner with mobster Bugsy Siegel at the Flamingo Hotel. Berman died in 1957 during surgery. Berman began his criminal career at 13 by running a crew of teenage thugs committing petty extortions and eventually a string of illegal distilleries. He then went on to supplement his earnings by also running his own armed robbing crew. Later after a time in the Twin Cities and serving in WW II, Berman moved his crew to the Las Vegas strip and operated there in concert with Genovese Family associates Bugsy Siegel, Dutch Goldberg, and Moe Sedway. According to journalists Ed Reid and Ovid Demaris, Berman was involved in the mob’s investigation into Siegel and the missing profits of the Flamingo Hotel and Casino. Both journalists further allege that Berman “had talked to Benny many times about it, warning him that if the matter was not settled soon, he was going to find himself minus a head.” Twenty minutes after the 1947 assassination of Bugsy Siegel in Beverly Hills, California, Gus Greenbaum, Moe Sedway, and David Berman walked into the lobby of the Flamingo and announced that they were in charge. This episode was brought to you by BetterHelp Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup  click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! 

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you a little different show today. He interviews well-known true-crime author Ron Chepesiuk about his latest book. In Bad Henry, Ron strays from his usual topic of organized crime, drug cartels, and cocaine smuggling to the work of serial killers. Click here to find a copy of Bad Henry. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Remember to click on www.BetterHelp.com/gangland for 10% off Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup  click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! 

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary interviews author Ronald Fried about his book on Frank Costello. Mr. Fried researched Costello and crafted a novel using actual situations and Costello’s exact language taken from newspapers, court proceedings, and transcripts from the famous Kefauver hearings. He tells how Frank Costello helped the Mafia transition from bootlegging during Prohibition into the 1930s and showed them how to transfer the organization into interstate gambling. Some of the stories he learned were how Costello ensured his slot machines had a step stool for kids to reach the coin slot. We learn how Costello was such a serious gambler that he would drink water and challenge other men to see who could urinate for the longest time. He won every time. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Remember to click on www.BetterHelp.com/gangland for 10% off Subscribe to the Podcast for a new gangster story every week. Support the Podcast. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwireClick here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.  To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. To subscribe on iTunes, click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here!    Transcript GARY JENKINS 00:00 But welcome all you Wiretappers out there back here in the studio of gangland wire in the studio with me and Ron Fried. Right. Okay, Fried has written a book about the Prime Minister of the underworld. And he was an immensely important man in that transition from the old mustache Pete days on into the modern crime syndicate. He was kind of the, I’d say the brains behind Lucky Luciano, in my opinion. But anyhow, rod has written a book about the Prime Minister of the underworld. So rod, welcome. Ronald Fried 00:33 Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me. GARY JENKINS 00:35 So tell me, I know this is a novel, it’s a novelized form, but it’s based on facts. Right? How did you go about, you know, how do you go about doing that? Transport, translating facts into the novelization form? Ronald Fried 00:51 Well, one of the things that I noticed I worked on a TV show about the history of organized crime, about founding of the New York Mafia, what I noticed is that a lot of the mistakes historical errors or rumors or myths, or plain old nonsense, from One Book To the next book to the next book get repeated, repeated, repeated. So I thought it was really hard to get at the truth, for a number of reasons. One is that it’s not as though like the History Department at Harvard University of study, this is exactly what happened. The other the other problem is that all the people who were there when these events unfolded, were actually criminals, right? And one thing we know about criminals is they lie a lot, right? They do not tell the truth. And they make up stories, and they’re very self aggrandizing. When you’re dealing with the history of organized crime, particularly those sort of mythical days of the 20s 30s 40s, and 50s, is there’s a lot of exaggeration, a lot of lies, there’s a lot of nonsense people want to believe things that simply aren’t true. So I thought that a novel would be would be one way to try to get at the truth. However, I wanted it to be historically accurate. So what I did was, I wrote a novel in which everything that Frank Costello said is, on the record, he actually said, so what he said in court, what he said in interviews, and what he said in the keep over hearings, televised congressional hearings about organized crime in America. That’s all those are actually his words. He gave interviews,