Build Your SaaS – Details, episodes & analysis

How do founders of small bootstrapped companies hire new employees?

Adam Wathan got over 1600 people who applied for two new roles at Tailwind Labs (a small team of six people). They ended up hiring two people, but neither of them actually applied. This wasn't how Adam expected (or hoped) this process would go. There were lots of surprising takeaways and lessons learned from the whole experience.

"If you figure we spend 5 minutes on every single application, that was like 133 hours straight reading applications. Processing these job applications was basically my full time job for 2 months." – Adam Wathan

Links:

• Hackers Inc podcast
• Tailwind job opening announcement
• Design Engineer job posting
• Staff Software Engineer job posting
• Reddit: 11 months of job searching visualized

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
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Timestamps:

• (03:40) - What's the size of Transistor and when did you last hire?
• (05:24) - How did you meet or find your employees?
• (07:12) - Adam's process for hiring
• (12:44) - The energy required to process applications
• (17:32) - What got people in to the 100 list?
• (21:03) - Did Adam get any videos in applications?
• (24:49) - Previous employment was a good indicator
• (30:16) - Painting a picture of what the position looks like
• (32:02) - The kinds of people who applied
• (34:52) - How did the application process work out?
• (38:52) - The kinds of questions we asked applicants
• (42:25) - Does a great conversation impact a hiring decision or not?
• (49:24) - Does having the position open in public help?
• (51:36) - How Adam was connected to the people they hired
• (59:31) - The importance of conference conversations
• (01:02:20) - Finding ways to share your work in public
• (01:06:11) - The process does work... just not this time
• (01:12:30) - Could I ever get comfortable with a 70% success rate?
• (01:20:53) - Bringing in someone you knew vs a fan
• (01:26:45) - Keeping a tab in different areas to pull from

Thanks to our monthly supporters

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• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

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A panel discussion on 37signals' first ONCE product, the launch of Campfire ("pay for it once, install it, and run it on your own server"). Ian Landsman, Tyler Tringas, and Justin Jackson share what they expected to happen before the launch, what did happen, and what it means for indie hackers and bootstrappers who want to launch SaaS companies. Is this the end of SaaS?

Links:

• Once landing page
• Campfire sales page
• DHH's tweet: "ONCE/Campfire hasn't even been for sale for a week, but we've already sold more than quarter of a million dollars."
• Tyler Tringas's video

I want to hear your thoughts:

If you listen to the episode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts:

• Can you think of a low-price, pay-once, on-prem software product that's succeeded? (The only one I could think of was ​Statamic CMS​)
• Do you think a different Once product might have made more sales? What kinds of products do you think might work?
• Did you buy Campfire? What did you buy it for? Are you using it as a chat tool for your company?
• Other thoughts on our discussion.

👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​

🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (00:00:00) - "I appreciate that 37signals exists."
• (00:01:58) - 37signals' influence in the bootstrapped startup space
• (00:03:58) - What did we expect from the Campfire/Once launch?
• (00:06:23) - DHH's tweet on Campfire sales – is that what we expected?
• (00:09:49) - The Once model, philosophy, and Campfire's history
• (00:17:21) - Misconceptions about what IT Managers want
• (00:19:49) - How Campfire was marketed and positioned
• (00:26:01) - Basecamp's PR, virality, and audience 
• (00:28:29) - Can you do customer research to validate demand?
• (00:32:01) - The volume of sales as a success metric
• (00:33:33) - The Potential for Campfire's expansion
• (00:37:37) - Distribution opportunities with hosting providers
• 00:39:31) - The intuition behind HEY Email's success
• (00:43:42) - The Value of an Audience and Customer Overlap
• (00:45:12) - The Compounding Advantage of Longevity
• (00:49:54) - Scorecard

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Michele Hansen (co-founder of Geocodio) is raising the alarm about Section 174. This legislation could dramatically increase your tax bill this year if you're a small software company in the USA. Michele is organizing a response through the Small Software Business Alliance.

👉 ACT NOW:

1. Sign up for Michele's list
2. US citizens: tweet and call your Senators today. They need to know that this is a small business issue and that small businesses in their state are hurt by Section 174.
3. Share the ssballiance.org URL with your founder friends.

In this episode:

• (01:37) - What is section 174?
• (04:37) - What's the benefit to the government for this change?
• (08:58) - Section 174 is bad for every company that builds software
• (11:23) - Disclaimer: We're not tax accountants
• (12:16) - What is the SSB Alliance?
• (14:00) - Small businesses are the cute puppies of the policy world
• (22:00) - A practical example
• (25:25) - This is going to impact small software businesses
• (28:31) - What can we do?

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Happy Two-Four ya hosers! After a Canadian long weekend, Jon and Justin convene to talk about:

• Justin thinks non-alcoholic drinks are going to be huge.
• Jon just shipped an update that puts RSS feeds on a CDN.
• We're still struggling to "find the time" to work on big features.
• Building things slowly vs BEING IN A RUSH!

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: You can meet the support team at balsamiq.com/support - they're awesome people.
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Derek Sivers on the Tim Ferris Show
• sivers.org
• Derrick Reimer on moving on
• Art of Product product

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
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• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Ivan Curkovic
• Brian Rhea
• Miguel Piedrafita
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett 
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon and Justin are wrestling with thoughts about growth:

• "Our current rate of growth is nice: it feels sustainable." – Justin
• "It feels less sustainable for me, because I'm working a full-time job." – Jon
• We’re able to keep up with demand, and enjoy the process.
• There are all these stories about folks whose companies are growing like crazy. They’re just always adding more people, more process, more stress. Do we want that?
• Peldi tells this story about starting Balsamiq. He said his launch was like “holding on to a rocket ship with his fingernails.”
• Some folks would say we should be capturing more of the market. There’s this idea that you can’t be satisfied with what you have. That you have to juice every bit of growth you can.
• But then you’re building all of these dependencies that you have to keep up even when the market goes down.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: If you’d like to help in make Balsamiq Wireframes better, and help them shape the future of wireframing, join their Customer Advisory Board at balsamiq.com/support/makeusbetter
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Greg Wade, the baker that Jon apprenticed with, just won a James Beard award.
• Peldi's interview on Indie Hackers.
• Paul Jarvis on growth and sustainability.
• Bootstrapped Web podcast: Jordan loves building his team.

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
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• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Miguel Piedrafita
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett - SnapShooter
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon and Justin are back from Portland and wrestling with ideas, bots, and CMSes:

• Justin's spouse wants to know why we wouldn't sell for $5 million (and each get $2.5 million)
• Jon found some bot traffic that we need to eliminate from our analytics, and it's giving him a Postgres headache.
• Justin is trying a bunch of different CMS options: Vapid, Statamic in an effort to get off WordPress.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Book: Company of One by Paul Jarvis
• Book: Sourdough a Novel
• PRX User Agent
• Dave Zohrob from Chartable
• Vapid.com
• JustinJackson.ca (built on Statamic)
• Statamic.com

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Leave a comment on CastBox, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Miguel Piedrafita
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett - SnapShooter
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon and Justin do a founder retreat in Portland with Darby Frey and Shay Howe (Lead Honestly). We hashed out some ideas for:

• How do you start building a really big feature?
• What does version 1 of our "dynamic content" feature look like?
• Setting up Mixpanel: creating event triggers, funnels, and onboarding.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Lead Honestly
• Photo: We got to hang out with some cool folks in Portland
• How to host a “tiny” conference
• How to host a retreat
• Hiten Shah: "Hiten bombs" article

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Leave a comment on CastBox, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett - SnapShooter
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

If you're struggling with pricing your app, listen to this episode! Ben Orenstein, Jordan Gal, Patrick Campbell, and I discussed whether "charge more" is always the right answer.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• YouTube Live
• Justin's article: Should we always charge more?
• Ben Orenstein, Tuple.app
• Jordan Gal, CartHook
• Patrick Campbell, Price Intelligently
• Justin Jackson, Transistor.fm

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Leave a comment on CastBox, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett - SnapShooter
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon is away so Justin called up Taylor Otwell, the creator of Laravel. In this episode we covered:

• How Laravel become the most popular backend framework on GitHub.
• Surprise! Taylor wasn't really into computers before he created Laravel.
• What was Taylor's motivation? Why did he create this, even though there were other alternatives?
• What's Laravel's secret? Why did it succeed?
• How is Laravel a business? How does it earn revenue?

"Before Laravel, there were a lot of programmers that were burnt out on PHP. These folks hated their job. But after Laravel, they enjoyed their job more. It helped them in a personal way."

Here's the timeline we discussed:

• 2010: Taylor starts working on Laravel.
• 2011: Taylor launched version 1.0 of Laravel.
• 2013: Taylor launches an ebook
• 2013: Start working on Forge
• 2013: First Laracon conference (90 people)
• 2014: Launches Forge at Laracon (240 people)
• 2014: after a month he had 1000 customers, $90k / ARR almost right from launch. (He thought it would maybe make $2-$3k / month). Plans started at $10 / month.
• End of 2014: decided to go full-time on Laravel.
• 2015: Full-time on Laravel, developed a competitive nature, really driven to see Laravel 
• 2015: Launched Envoyer.io 
• 2016: Launched Spark, as a “SaaS starter kit.”
• 2016: First full-time employee, Mohamed Said.
• 2017: Launched Laravel Echo, Passport, Notifications. 
• 2017: Second hire, 
• 2018: Laravel Nova.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Taylor Otwell on Twitter
• Taylor Otwell's podcast
• Laravel.com
• Laracon - the Laravel conference
• Justin's article: Why many products struggle, and only a few succeed
• Jeffrey Way and Laracasts
• Create your own podcast at transistor.fm

You can reply to this podcast here:

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• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Simon Bennett - SnapShooter
• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Jon's away! Today I talked to Spencer Fry, from Podia about:

• How do you find a good startup idea?
• What are the worst types of companies to start?
• Should you raise money or bootstrap?
• Why the target market for your product matters.

★ Thanks to our sponsors:

• Balsamiq: They make a low-fidelity wireframing tool, specifically geared for non-designers. Get in the zone, and I feel creative right away. Try out their free trial: balsamiq.com
• Clubhouse.io: Clubhouse is the first project management platform for software development that brings everyone together. It's designed for developers, but product folks, marketing, support folks love using it. Get two months free: clubhouse.io/build.

Show notes:

• Podia.com
• Carbon Made
• SpencerFry.com
• Spencer on Twitter
• Create your own podcast at transistor.fm

You can reply to this podcast here:

• Leave a comment on Breaker, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Leave a comment on CastBox, the podcast app for Android and iPhone.
• Otherwise, get us on Twitter: @transistorfm or email us: mail@transistor.fm

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Corey Haines
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis
• Dan Buda
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Kevin Markham
• Sammy Schuckert
• Dan Ericson
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Balsamiq.cloud
• Clubhouse.io
• GetRewardful.com

Thanks to our monthly supporters

• Pascal from sharpen.page
• Rewardful.com
• Greg Park
• Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit.com.au
• Marcel Fahle, wearebold.af
• Bill Condo (@mavrck)
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Evandro Sasse
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver
• Colin Gray
• Dave Giunta

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★