Explore every episode of the podcast WILL - Women Interested in Leaving Law
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
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| How Getting Out of $670K of Debt, Led Rho Thomas to Become a Financial Coach | 22 Nov 2024 | 00:35:18 | |
Imagine you’re a mid-level IP associate at a big firm. You’ve just had your first child. As the end of your mat leave rapidly approaches, you consider going back to work 50% time for 50% pay. But after looking at your family finances, you see that you and your medical resident spouse are $670K in debt! That would have sent me back to bed, but not our next guest on the WILL Podcast, Rho Thomas. Rho not only went back to work full-time, she got to work to reduce their debt, which she more than halved in just a few years. After overcoming the shame, she began to share her story (anonymously at first). Rho now helps lawyers get out of debt and control of their money. Listen in as Rho:
Where to find Rho: Instagram: @iamrhothomas LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/iamrhothomas Website: https://www.rhothomas.com Podcast: Personal Finance for Lawyers with Rho Thomas - https://www.rhothomas.com/podcast
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
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| Anxiety in Women Lawyers: How it Affects You, and What You Can Do | 21 Nov 2024 | 00:13:58 | |
Does your heart stop when you get an email from a certain partner or client? Have you experienced health concerns that doctors have been unable to diagnose - like stomach pain, rashes or hair loss? You didn’t used to “be an anxious person” but now you wonder if this is who you are? If you’re increasingly concerned about the toll anxiety from work is taking on your physical and mental health, this is for you. In this episode, Elena shares her understanding of “situational anxiety” and how she sees it impacting women lawyers. She openly explains:
References Book: The High Five Habit, Mel Robbins
Trigger Warning: Anxiety, mental health. Elena is not a licensed mental health professional. If you are experiencing significant anxiety, then we recommend talking to a health professional.
Hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst, the WILL Podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
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| How Pursuing Comedy Led Pamela T. to Her Ideal Legal Job | 21 Nov 2024 | 00:32:45 | |
Imagine feeling overwhelmed and stressed as a big law litigator, breaking down on the A train to JFK as you head to England for the Christmas holidays. Imagine a weird relief that COVID offers, as you move temporarily to Vermont where you begin to sort out what you’d really like to do next. Imagine deciding to forgo law, only to discover an ideal job while writing a joke for your burgeoning stand-up comedy routine. In this episode, meet Pamela T, a former big law attorney, who had an epic journey across four countries before landing in Newcastle, England. Now she pursues her dual passions - fighting the patriarchy and comedy, all while raising her son and enjoying the occasional good cup of coffee after Pilates. You can’t make this up! In our conversation, hear how:
Hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst, the WILL Podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Note: In this episode you’ll hear me refer to a tech fail, but my editing team patched it up - so it should be fairly smooth listening! Please enjoy this inaugural episode of the WILL Podcast!!
Trigger warning: miscarriage, sexual assault and cults.
References
Follow Pamela on Instagram: @pt_lolz. | |||
| How Challenges Can Help You Expand and Grow | 23 May 2025 | 00:10:01 | |
What is the nature of human existence? What are challenges? What if challenges are opportunities to help you grow past your conditioning and habitual responses?
These very light questions 🤣 and how you can use challenges to expand and grow are the topic of this solo episode! What if challenges are a chance for you to CLARIFY your VALUES and DESIRES? Listen in to shift the way you think so you can move through the hard stuff more easily and expand your capacity for more joy, alignment and pleasure. See how your challenges can become opportunities to become the person who has moved through the difficulties, into a new identity. This mini thought-provoking episode can help you deep-dive your own challenges and how they can transport you towards a greater YOU. The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| From Law to Style: Estelle Winsett’s Journey | 09 May 2025 | 00:35:28 | |
Imagine being a little kid and building your daily outfits around giant hair bows! Imagine having part of your soul die while in law school, putting your head down and grinding it out. Imagine, being told by your future husband, that you always wear black. Estelle Winsett takes us on a journey from her childhood exuberant self, to a staid lawyer until she rediscovered her love of style and what it can do for women lawyers. As an attorney who practiced in multiple arenas - from litigation to universities and firm professional development roles, she knows how important it is for women lawyers to be taken seriously, without being TOO serious. And how their personal style can speak for them without saying a word. At the bottom line of what Estelle does is help women accept who they are and shine!. This episode of the WILL Podcast might help you up your delight in how you dress to best represent yourself.
Where to find Estelle: Website: https://estellewinsett.com Click here to book a call with her: bit.ly/Stylecall Powerhouse Facebook Group: bit.ly/powerhousestyle (Free private FB Group) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/estellewinsett IG: https://www.instagram.com/estellewinsett https://www.tiktok.com/@estellewinsettstyle
Show notes: Interests can turn into income: Jenny McKee’s Episode - From Lawyer to Astrologer: The Path to Authenticity | |||
| How to Make Money Non-Lawyering with Podcaster Kyla Denanyoh | 03 Jan 2025 | 00:27:03 | |
Imagine you’re happy as a lawyer, yet feel that your creativity is stifled. Or that you can’t be creative as a lawyer as it doesn’t ‘fit’ what a lawyer should be. Kyla Denanyoh showcased her efficiency and project management skills so well that while on maternity leave, she rendered her role obsolete. Instead of fear, Kyla was excited about moving forward in her side hustle - Podcasting and YouTubing, because a stream of sponsorships proved that she could make money non-lawyering. Now a seasoned podcaster with over 130 episodes and a salary from sponsorships, Kyla embodies the ‘multipotentialite’ (someone with many skillsets and role options). Listen in as Kyla:
Follow Kyla Podcast: ‘More than a Lawyer’ https://www.youarealawyer.com/ Website: Kyla Denanyoh | Storyteller & Strategist Instagram: Kyla Denanyoh (@mrsdenanyoh)
References Book: 'We should all be millionaires' - Rachel Rogers.
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| From Lawyer to Astrologer: The Path to Authenticity | 19 Dec 2024 | 00:36:48 | |
How does one go from being a stuck and unhappy long time lawyer to practicing astrologer? Well if you’re Jenny McKee of Sky Whispers Astrology, you lean into your strengths, surround yourself with community and take it one slow step at a time. In this episode Jenny details her journey through WILL programs as she expanded her self-knowledge and trust. As a listener of the WILL podcast you cannot only hear about her journey, but experience her work for yourself! She shares a generous 15% savings coupon when you use the code WILL when you book any session or package with her. All the details below. On a personal note, I am so appreciative to Jenny for sharing her journey and for the years of our work together. She showcases an example of what’s possible, not just for her, but for you too. Have a listen. Where to find Jenny: To learn more about working with Jenny go to: www.skywhispersastrology.com Use the code: ‘WILL’ on any purchases and save 15%! Email: Jenny@skywhispersastrology
Show notes: The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron WILL Programs mentioned: The foundational WILL program Jenny started with was called WILL Step-by-Step and is now WILL Transform.
WILL programs Jenny also participated in, and mentions: The Creator’s Circle - a small-group journey through The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron. WILLpreneurs - a small group for women lawyers who want to start their own businesses. To be notified of when these programs open next, email Support@womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com Gallup Clifton Strengths Assessment: https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/252137/home.aspx Jenny’s Mentors: About Debra Anne Clement – Debra Clement Astrologer
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
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| Boundary Setting Practice for Women Lawyers | 06 Dec 2024 | 00:19:31 | |
Everyone has to set boundaries, but for lawyers, especially women or people socialized as female, working in a “always be available” culture makes it even more challenging and important. Add in the hierarchy and not so subtle power-dynamics at law firms, and you have a recipe for being expected to give nearly everything to your job. Do you say YES to tasks that you desire to say NO to, because it’s expected? And do you say NO and cancel things you really want to say YES to, like concert tickets, brunch with friends and vacations without work? Today’s short solo episode guides you to re-think how to set boundaries in ways that offer protection and relief. You’ll have a simple framework to help you reclaim what's most important to you - your time, your energy, your life force, so you can either stay more happily in your role and/or make a change. You’ll learn to:
References Books: The Power of a Positive No and Getting to Yes, both by William Ury. Find his books and more here: https://www.williamury.com/books/
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Thinking of Starting Your Own Firm? How Two Lawyers Created Theirs (Without Dipping into Savings) | 29 Nov 2024 | 00:59:29 | |
Imagine winning a rapid defense verdict for your client with only 6 weeks to prepare for trial, only to not be thanked, AND get reprimanded by the managing partner for speaking in a frustrated tone to the junior and paralegal, who you trained up from scratch. Imagine not being able to get out of bed for two weeks, and knowing you HAD to do something different. (Which led you to Google “career coach for lawyers”.) Imagine being a rising 8th year, knowing the partnership question looms. You know you don’t want to make partner. You can barely keep your head above water now, and struggle to be as present with your young children as you’d like. But you don’t know what else you could do or where to begin. Listen to this special panel discussion with WILL Alumni Destiny Bounds of Bounds Legal, and Wilder Clements of Clements Employment Law. They share about their journeys from despair to doing work they love… for themselves. This is especially for you if you’re feeling helpless and/or if you’re considering starting your own firm. As it was a live call, you’ll hear Destiny and Wilder respond to questions from the audience. See how Wilder:
Wilder A. Clements brings experienced and value-driven counsel to purpose-driven businesses and organizations with challenging employment law questions. Wilder is experienced in advising clients on the complexities of federal and state labor and employment law, understands steps businesses and organizations need to take to treat and pay their workers fairly, and serves as an instrumental partner in helping organizations and businesses align purpose with people-first practices. Wilder devotes a significant portion of their services to pro bono assistance, including representing LGBTQ+ workers and advising local non-profits on employment law issues. https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilderclements/ https://www.instagram.com/clementsemploymentlaw
Listen as Destiny Bounds shares how:
After leaving her role within a large AMLaw 200 nationwide law firm, Destiny started helping small businesses form strong legal foundations, getting their contracts and legal documents prepared, and, essentially, becoming their “outside” in-house counsel, partnering with them throughout each stage of their business. She realized that she LOVED small business law. She founded Bounds Business Law with a mission to change the soulless legal profession of law into one that will positively impact the community and beyond. https://www.linkedin.com/company/bounds-law-llc/ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091839366389 https://www.instagram.com/legal.fluence/
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| How to Step into Your Fullest Expression with Creator of Interconnected Us, Rachel Clar | 25 Apr 2025 | 00:34:13 | |
Imagine you’re in a workplace where you know you’re not capitalizing on the best of what you have to offer. You're a creative relationship-builder and feel stymied by the billable hour. Your current workplace isn't cutting it. You’re working in law, but not doing work that’s aligned with your values and making a difference in the lives of others. Sound familiar? Rachel Clar's journey out of law started when she realized that a traditional law environment “created a rage inside”. She knew she wasn't living her fullest expression. In order to venture from her soul, she utilized her natural curiosity to:
It was at this point that she cracked the code from the inside and founded Interconnected Us, to help women lawyers:
Listen in as Rachel talks through her journey from unhappy lawyer to aligned and mission-driven entrepreneur!
Connect with Rachel Website: https://www.interconnectedus.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelclar/
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw
References Self Compassion by Krisin Neff: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Self_Compassion/PDAEzLL9mscC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT1&printsec=frontcover | |||
| Breakdown, Boundaries & Breakthroughs: Meredith's Journey | 10 Apr 2025 | 01:03:17 | |
Imagine a lifetime of pressure, conditioning and the internal critic saying: “work harder” “be perfect” and “you’re not good enough.”
This is on top of having a brain tumor and near death experience at 17, then losing your father at age 26.
Add in a lawyer practice in big law and the pressure to perform which ultimately leads to a breaking point. In desperation, you search “Career coaches for women lawyers” on Google in the hope of finding relief.
Imagine the very day you have your consultation with Elena, there’s a panel of WILL Alumni talking about taking a leave of absence - and you enroll on the spot. Meredith Eng generously shares her WILL journey with all the lows and highs including:
Connect with Meredith LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mereditheng/ Instagram: @mereditheeng
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own?
Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
References Wilder A. Clements Wilder A. Clements brings experienced and value-driven counsel to purpose-driven businesses and organizations with challenging employment law questions. Clements Employment Law https://www.clementsemploymentlaw.com/
WILL Transform Meredith chose the Transform VIP program, which included 1:1 coaching with Elena Deutsch. The WILL Transform Program is a comprehensive 6-month program designed specifically for busy women lawyers. It provides the support you need to make a meaningful career change. Learn more here: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/services/
WILL Mastermind Based on the book 'Burnout', by the Nagoski Sisters About understanding burnout with activities around this.
WILL Creator's Circle The Creator’s Circle - a small-group journey through The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron led by Elena Deutsch. The Creators Circle opens one time per year. It’s open to both lawyers, former lawyers and non-lawyers.
WILL Evolve Continuation program for WILL Alum, to support their ongoing journey and to avoid backsliding.
WILL Podcast Boundary Practice episode https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boundary-setting-practice-for-women-lawyers/id1781037581?i=1000679460040.
Jessica Meddina Financial councillor that helps lawyers create financial plans. Works closely with WILL members. https://www.jessicamedinallc.com.
Helena Bonham Carter, poetry https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5qXDx4oOnx/
One precious life Book of poems called ‘This Wild and Precious Life: A Journal’ by Mary Oliver. https://www.amazon.com/This-Wild-Precious-Life-Journal/dp/0593580281.
Jenny McKee A WILL Alum that switched from lawyer to being an astrologer. Her astrology website is Sky Whispers Astrology and she is available for readings. https://skywhispersastrology.com.
Anne Marie Segal Master the Interview, by Anne Marie Segal. | |||
| Roundabout Way from Law Into End-of-Life Planning | 28 Mar 2025 | 00:33:23 | |
Imagine practicing law and realizing that as your supposedly indestructible office plant is dying, part of you is too. You fear making a change because of all you’ve invested in your education, financially and time-wise. Imagine having exploratory conversations that lead you full circle from your dying plant to your career as a Death Doula and End-of-Life Planner ⚰️. Listen in as Marni Blank describes her ‘round-about’ journey and how she:
Connect with Marni Website: https://beginwiththeend.co LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marni-blank-esq-a335b28/
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
References Eat, Pray, Love is a memoir written in 2006 by Elizabeth Gilbert. It tells the story of a woman who embarks on a spiritual quest overseas to find inner peace and love.
The Death Deck, The Conversation Project https://thedeathdeck.com/ The Conversation Project - Have You Had The Conversation?
Takeaways
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| Navigating Twists and Turns Towards a New Career | 14 Mar 2025 | 00:30:05 | |
Imagine being pregnant, parenting a toddler and working full time, while knowing your legal job was NOT one you could continue in. Even with everything else going on in her life, Leah Frankel joined WILL, and treated it like another top priority. Leah tackled her experience with curiosity, openness and candor. Listen in as she talks through:
Socials: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-frankel/
References WILL Transform is a six-month comprehensive program designed to help you clarify your career direction and be on the path to achieve it. It includes:
Anne Marie Segal https://annemariesegal.com/trusted-professionals/ The 4th Floor organisation, New York https://www.careergroupcompanies.com/fourth-floor
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| How to NOT Fall Asleep with Your Phone by Your Head | 28 Feb 2025 | 00:11:14 | |
Is falling asleep with your phone in your hand happening all too often? Do you find yourself doomscrolling or numbing out for hours on socials? You’re not alone. Cell phone addiction is a challenge that we’re all dealing with. In this short episode, I share my struggles and offer:
Want to figure out what you stand to gain by putting the phone down? Listen to this episode.
References Trigger Warning: Anxiety, mental health. Elena is not a licensed mental health professional. If you are experiencing significant anxiety, then we recommend talking to a health professional.
The Drew Barrymore Show - with guest, Gwyneth Paltrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6eBWhofqS8. Dan Harris, Founder of 10% Happier and book of the same name. Creator's Circle exercise from The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron.
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Highs & Lows: Navigating Motherhood & Legal Career with Erin Cowling | 14 Feb 2025 | 00:31:43 | |
Imagine you're a litigation #lawyer at a #biglaw firm, progressing towards partner.
You get married, become pregnant with your first, then second child, and take your
maternity leaves.
When you return to work, you find most of your files given away, and you are faced with building up your caseload all over again.
But before you can do that, your firm merges with another firm and you are let go. In a panic you accept the first job offer you get.
Then one day in the doctor’s office, pregnant with child number three, you break down in tears, diagnosed with depression and immediately know what needs to change.
What would you do?
Erin Cowling's story hits all these highs and lows, including:
Tune in to find out what happened after the doctor’s visit!
Erin Cowling is the author of The Modern Freelance Lawyer. Book launches on June 8th 2025 (paperback & e-book) and June 19th for hardcover. Order your copy here: https://www.cowlinglegal.com/book.html
Connect with Erin Web: www.flexlegalnetwork.com Instagram: @erinccowling
Trigger Warning: Anxiety, mental health. Elena is not a licensed mental health professional. If you are experiencing significant anxiety, then we recommend talking to a health professional.
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Book Launch Party: From Big Law to Published Author | 31 Jan 2025 | 00:25:45 | |
Imagine you have a nascent dream of being a writer instead of an associate drowning in M&A deals. Imagine you whisper your dream out loud to your coach, and have it met with delight and full belief in your ability to make it happen. Imagine a few short years later, you hold your first published book in your hands, and marvel at how much your life has changed. You went from despair in big law to being a PUBLISHED AUTHOR. This is the journey Leah Jennings went on. In this episode of the WILL Podcast, listen in on the book launch party Elena Deutsch, Founder of WILL threw for Leah upon the release of her first novel: Angel Eyes from the Paris in a Heartbeat series. Leah’s journey in this podcast covers:
Follow Leah Website: https://elliejennings.com/ Instagram: @authorelliejennings Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556516636947
References The Creator’s Circle - a small-group journey through The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron led by Elena Deutsch. The Creators Circle opens one time per year. It’s open to both lawyers, former lawyers and non-lawyers. If you’re interested, in receiving more information: email Support@womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| How to Quiet Your Inner Critic | 17 Jan 2025 | 00:12:04 | |
Listen here to see you’re not alone if you’ve got a nasty inner critic. Women lawyers can speak harshly to themselves, honed by years of perfectionism and working in “mistakes aren’t allowed” cultures. If this rings true, in this podcast you'll learn how to mitigate your nasty inner dialogue. 🎧 How to notice and recognize your inner critic, as separate from YOU. 🎧 The legal culture can foster already held tendencies of self-criticism. 🎧 What if your inner critic can be seen as a part of you, not an enemy. [WHAT?!?] If you enjoy this podcast, please follow, rate and leave a review. The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a legal career coach and catalyst for women lawyers looking to have freedom, flexibility and fulfillment in their work and lives. Listen in and see that change is not just possible for others, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your Personalized Career Assessment Call with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| From Lawyer to Therapist: Yael Eiserike on Anxiety, Identity & Choosing a New Path | 10 Oct 2025 | 00:34:35 | |
Imagine you manage to navigate the pressures and achievements of your legal career, yet feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety and dissatisfaction. Imagine that after you set boundaries and say “no”, you see nothing bad happened. This helps you loosen the grip of perfectionism, and unlock opportunities that align with your true self. If you’ve earned your gold stars, but happiness feels out of reach, this episode is for you. Yael Eiserike shares how therapy and mindset work can dissolve anxiety, ease perfectionism, and open up new paths forward. Especially with:
Yael’s story and approach provide a roadmap for reclaiming your autonomy, your well-being, and your sense of purpose, in law or beyond it. About Yael Eiserike Yael is a former attorney and Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW,) who specializes in therapy for high-stress professionals, career-changers, and those who struggle with balance. She helps clients overcome anxiety, perfectionism, and burnout. With a background that bridges law and mental health, she focuses on direct clinical work rooted in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and exposure work, supporting her clients to create meaningful change from within. Yael’s compassionate approach empowers women to find alignment and fulfillment on their own terms. Website: www.yaeleiserike.com About WILL The WILL- Women Interested in Leaving Law Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen; it’s an invitation to explore new possibilities and shed limiting beliefs. As WILL Alumni and guests share their journeys beyond traditional legal practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible, it’s within your reach. Feel stuck, unhappy, or ready to explore your own WILL journey? Book your consultation with Elena: womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call Follow Us: | |||
| Sarah Burke’s Story of Letting Go & Becoming Unapologetically Herself | 26 Sep 2025 | 00:29:51 | |
Imagine being at the height of your legal career; earning more than ever, admired by peers, and yet feeling completely miserable. That was Sarah Burke’s reality before she made one of the boldest choices of her life. To walk away from traditional legal practice in pursuit of autonomy, alignment and self-love. Imagine transforming from someone who's afraid to say “no,” to becoming confidently building your own mediation practice, traveling the world, and stepping into your next chapter. Sarah didn’t just change careers; she shed layers of who she thought she had to be and stepped into who she truly is. In this episode, we talk about:
If you've ever thought, “Could I really leave?”, Sarah’s story is your sign that "Yes, you can!" Tune in to hear how she built a life and business on her own terms and how you can too.
About Sarah Sarah Burke is a skilled and empathetic mediator, arbitrator, and neutral professional dedicated to helping individuals and businesses resolve disputes efficiently and amicably. With over 15 years of litigation experience as a practicing attorney, Sarah now focuses on facilitating fair and balanced resolutions in mediation, pre-settlement conferences, and arbitration throughout Florida. Sarah’s professional background includes handling complex commercial litigation, insurance disputes, and multi-million-dollar claims, giving her a deep understanding of the challenges parties face in contentious matters. Her ability to break down complex issues, coupled with a calming and compassionate presence, allows her to guide disputing parties toward solutions that save time, minimize costs, and reduce the stress of prolonged conflict. Website: https://www.burkeresolutions.com
Show notes/References The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen. It may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Join us for the Sunday Sprint: Shine Your Light, from October 5th to November 9th. The Sunday Sprint is a 6-week reset designed to help you ground, grow, and finish the year strong. You’ll walk away with:
Sign up here: https://elenadeutsch931.lpages.co/sunday-sprint-2025/
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call Follow Us: | |||
| From Cancer to Coaching: Dina Cataldo on Healing, Purpose, and the Power of Saying No | 12 Sep 2025 | 00:43:07 | |
Imagine being a 29 year-old criminal prosecutor who’s diagnosed with breast cancer, only to realize the biggest shocker is that chemo is the “best experience of your life.” This wake-up call for Dina Cataldo began her journey into entrepreneurship and personal growth that ultimately led to coaching and moving to Sedona, Arizona.Along the way she faced fear, guilt and shame, opening her up to self-compassion and creating a business and life she absolutely adores. In this episode, we talk about:
Dina shares how even our deepest struggles can spark clarity and transformation.
About Dina Dina Cataldo is a Master Certified Coach who helps lawyers love their lives while growing their law practices. She's the creator of the program Time Peace for Lawyers™ and host of “Be a Better Lawyer” Podcast. She was a criminal prosecutor for over 15 years before leaving the law to help lawyers stop feeling overwhelmed in the law practices and live lives that feel fully lived. Free Workbook: "3 Sneaky Problems Stealing Your Time and Productivity (and How to Fix Them Now!)" can be downloaded here: https://dinacataldo.com/timepeace Connect with Dina:
Show notes/References Money book Elena refers to: Love Money, Money Loves You by Sarah McCrum Episode of the Born to Heal Podcast where Dina talks about her curing cancer naturally. It’s amazing! WILL - Women Interested in Leaving Law The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen. It may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Join us for the Sunday Sprint: Shine Your Light, from October 5th to November 9th. The Sunday Sprint is a 6-week reset designed to help you ground, grow, and finish the year strong. You’ll walk away with:
Sign up here: https://elenadeutsch931.lpages.co/sunday-sprint-2025/
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow Us: | |||
| How gaining financial safety gives you the freedom to dream | 29 Aug 2025 | 00:42:42 | |
Imagine feeling stuck in a high-paying legal job as you’re buried deep in student loan debt. Imagine having everything you ever wanted in a career - Your dream job right in front of you, and then realizing you absolutely hate it. Imagine feeling unsure how to make a change…until one conversation shifts everything. In this inspiring episode, Jessica Medina shares how she went from being completely burnt out and in financial overwhelm, to a place of freedom, clarity, and renewed energy. She talks through the dawning realization that her dream job in enforcement is far from what she imagined. Burnt out, indebted and lacking love in her career, Jessica chose a new career path that not only helped her decrease her own debt, but help others in the same way. In this episode, she talks about:
Many lawyers feel stuck in their jobs because of financial obligations, especially student loan debt. But once they gain clarity and control over their finances, it opens up real options: career pivots, sabbaticals, travel, or simply breathing room to reassess. If this sounds like you, then we invite you to listen in and begin to dream again.
About Jessica Jessica Medina is a lawyer turned Accredited Financial Counselor on a mission to help attorneys create the financial freedom they need to do big things. She graduated from Columbia Law School in 2004 as a single mom of twins with over $200,000 in student loans and went straight to work at a big law firm.
After eight years she switched roles and became Senior Counsel at the Division of Enforcement at the United States Securities and Exchange Commission. She left the government to work in an area of the financial industry outside of the securities world and now teaches other lawyers how to use their money to finance their dream lives. She especially enjoys working with her WILL member-clients to help them craft their exit plans and pursue their true passions.
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen. It may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Reduce Anxiety with TLC - Touch, Label & Choose | 15 Aug 2025 | 00:11:02 | |
When Mel Robbins agrees with you... Have you ever been in this situation before women in law? Your heart races when an unexpected email comes in from a difficult partner, or you wake up with a jolt in the middle of the night. You wish you could stop the spiraling, self-doubt and overthinking but just keep going to that worst case scenario. How about this instead? You have a simple, discreet tool you can use anytime, anywhere. It's effective in the office, on a call or in the courtroom. Use it and you feel calm, clear, and in control. Anxiety is one of the biggest challenges women lawyers face. From constant deadlines to unpredictable demands. The profession trains you to live in a state of high alert. But you don’t have to stay stuck in that state. In this solo episode, I share a quick and effective method to regulate #anxiety: Touch, Label & Choose (TLC). This technique helps you soothe your body, get present, and choose helpful thoughts. If you ever feel overwhelmed or frozen by stress, this episode is for you. Learn: 💡Why anxiety shows up in your body first (and why you can’t just “think” your way out of it). 💡 Simple ways to signal safety to your body (that you can do anytime, anywhere!) 💡How to label physical sensations to create emotional distance and regain calm. This episode will help you calm anxiety in the moment, reset your nervous system, and access the grounded version of yourself that’s always there, but often buried under the stress.
Show notes:
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen. It may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Putting Yourself First: Mental Health, Motherhood & Law | 01 Aug 2025 | 00:44:57 | |
Trigger warning - adolescent suicide. Imagine struggling to leave your firm but you’re "enmeshed" with your group, and don’t want to leave them. Imagine you go to an in-house role, and keep “leaning in” at work, giving and giving, while your recognition flat-lines. Imagine you work in “occupational health and safety” but your own mental health is at the bottom of your priority list. Imagine you’ve been making progress and aren’t able to fully put yourself first, until your 11 year old daughter makes a suicide attempt, and this wakes you up in a whole new way to how you have to resource yourself This is all part of Gwen Nightengale’s journey. Gwen - a longtime occupational health and safety attorney, user of therapy and WILL Member documents her journey from burned out associate and in-house lawyer, to a boundaried and attentive attorney and mental health advocate. Gwen’s WILL journey takes many iterations - from the very first pilot group in 2017 to The Creator’s Circle Mastermind - a year-long journey through The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron. Hear her speak how she found accountability, community and healing in WILL. How it helps her break isolation, see she’s not alone, and continue to expand and grow. Out of the cocoon and into the world!
About Gwen Gwen Nightengale is an in-house Environmental, Health, & Safety Lawyer with over 15 years of experience advising clients on workplace health and safety regulatory compliance. Before working in-house, Gwen practiced in the Workplace Health & Safety practice group for over 8 years at a Labor & Employment Law Firm in Washington, DC. Gwen earned both her bachelor’s degree in biology and her Juris Doctor degree from Howard University. Mental health and wellbeing is a passion that is near and dear to Gwen’s heart. Given that the long work hours, customer service focus, and ever evolving legal landscape can make the practice of law challenging and isolating, Gwen has been dedicating a lot of her time outside of work finding new activities that inspire joy, build community, and foster resilience. She is a member of the WILL Creator's Circle, which is a mastermind focused on Julia Cameron’s The Artist’s Way. Her work in the Creator's Circle inspired her to create a Substack, A Deeper Well. Here, she speaks candidly about her mental health journey. If Gwen weren’t working as a lawyer, she would likely be an attorney wellness coach to support other minority women attorneys with practicing law resiliently and sustainably.
Gwen’s Show Notes
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| Break Free from Big Law Burnout & Build a Career You Love | 18 Jul 2025 | 00:48:12 | |
What happens when your dream job becomes a nightmare that puts you in survival mode? In this episode, you will learn how to recognize burnout warning signs, choose yourself over prestige, and align your career with your values. This is exactly what happened to Samorn Selim. As the daughter of illiterate Lao refugees and the first in her family to go to college, she thought landing a big law job meant she'd made it. Instead, she found herself in survival mode and struggling with health issues. Samorn Selim shares how she worked through her fears to make big career changes and bet on herself: from big law to Berkeley Law Career Counselor, and finally a bold leap to build Career Unicorns® – Spark Your Joy®. Now a Forbes-featured career coach, Samorn has helped over 1,000 women, BIPOC, and first-generation professionals escape similar traps and find careers that actually energize them and align with their values. We dive deep into what it takes to walk away from the expectations, the prestige, the paycheck and how to listen to your inner wisdom, including:
If you're exhausted from performing for others and ready to build a career that energizes rather than drains you, this conversation will show you exactly how to start.
Connect with Samorn Samorn Selim is the Founder of Career Unicorns and the host of Career Unicorns – Spark Your Joy podcast. As the daughter of illiterate Laotian refugees, the first to go to college in her family, and the former Director of Employer Outreach at Berkeley Law, Samorn has used her experiences to support over 1,000 first-generation professionals, women, and Black, Indigenous, and people of color in law, tech, and legal tech to land their dream jobs, get promoted to leadership, and overcome burnout to build sustainable and thriving careers. Her work has been featured in: Forbes, Harvard Business Review, and the BBC among others.
Show notes/references
⭐️ Exclusive offer! ⭐️ The first 10 people to listen to this episode and submit a review will win a complimentary copy of Samorn's new book: Career Unicorns™ 90-Day 5-Minute Gratitude Journal: An Easy & Proven Way To Cultivate Mindfulness, Beat Burnout & Find Career Joy. Terms:
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too. Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw | |||
| “What Will They Think?” How to Let Go of People-Pleasing | 04 Jul 2025 | 00:15:39 | |
Imagine you’re stuck in your current situation because you worry what other people will think. Imagine thinking, “I don’t want to let other people down,” and yet some part of your soul feels a thud. Because you’re letting yourself down. Imagine deciding to care-less (not not care!) what other people think, but you don’t know where to begin. Leaving long-held relationships at law firms or roles is one of the BIGGEST things that keeps women lawyers stuck. In this solo episode, see if you’re stuck in the “people-pleasing” pitfall. This is incredibly common among women lawyers, and it can silently sabotage your ability to make a switch. Is the fear of letting others down — partners, mentors, coworkers, friends — keeping you frozen? If so listen to this episode, we explore:
This episode will help you untangle the guilt, clarify your values, and begin to move forward with confidence.
Show notes/references Resources Mentioned:
Past WILL podcast episodes | |||
| Find What Lights You Up With Marla Tseng | 20 Jun 2025 | 00:37:41 | |
Imagine going from big law to an in-house role, that’s just as pressured and demanding. Imagine that you long for more connection and meaning in your work. Imagine discovering your passion for Human Design and astrology. You think this is the direction you want to pivot towards, but you’re scared as heck! What will other people think? Imagine finding the support of others and summoning the courage to post about starting your astrology business on your socials. (And only hearing positive things back!) This is the story of WILL Alum Marla Tseng. She shares how WILL helped her navigate from a high-pressure in-house role to become a Human Design and Astrology practitioner. Marla left the practice of law in 2023 and set up her own human design and astrology business, and now helps others with what she has given herself - to align with what lights them up! In this episode, she talks through:
Marla Tseng uses human design and astrology to help unhappy professionals figure out the type of work that lights them up. She also uses Human Design to help corporate teams improve their collaboration. With her background as a lawyer in the corporate world for nearly 14 years, Marla now bridges the professional and metaphysical worlds, bringing a grounded, strategic, and heart-centered approach to her work with clients.
Connect with Marla IG: @marlajtseng www.manyworldsmanypossibilities.com
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated legal career coach and catalyst. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. As WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
References WILL Transform Meredith chose the Transform VIP program, which included 1:1 coaching with Elena Deutsch. The WILL Transform Program is a comprehensive 6-month program designed specifically for busy women lawyers. It provides the support you need to make a meaningful career change. Learn more here: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/services/ Jenny McKee, Skywhispers Astrology www.skywhispersastrology.com The Gene Keys https://home.genekeys.com/ | |||
| From Perfectionist to Positive Psychology Coach with Jordana Confino | 06 Jun 2025 | 00:41:36 | |
Imagine hitting burnout not once, but twice. The second time, you crash so hard, despite making many positive changes, you can’t walk! Imagine being an A+ perfectionist and battling daily with your inner critic and people-pleasing tendencies. Imagine meeting a therapist that finally switched you on to your values (and how everything you were doing was not in alignment with them). Now imagine turning your crash and burn into becoming a “compassionate coach”. You now help women lawyers get out of their own way, learn how to be self-compassionate and create fulfilling mindsets. You’ll love hearing how Jordana Confino went from lawyer to recovering-perfectionist and positive psychology coach. She shares how her personal experiences with burnout and physical pain helped her become the compassionate and successful coach she is today.
Jordana - profile and where to find her Jordana is a certified professional coach, Positive Lawyering professor, and founder of JC Coaching & Consulting, a company devoted to helping lawyers and other high-achieving professionals get out of their own way so they can enjoy greater satisfaction and sustainable success in their lives and work. As a self-described “recovering Type A+ perfectionist” herself, Jordana knows that many high-achieving, successful people hold limiting beliefs that prevent them from truly flourishing. Until fairly recently, she was one of them. But Jordana transformed her life leveraging the science of positive psychology and human motivation theory, and she is passionate about helping others do the same. Website: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/ Self-Compassion Guide: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/self-compassion-guide Values Discovery Guide: https://www.jordanaconfino.com/values
The WILL Podcast is hosted by Elena Deutsch, a dedicated guide for women lawyers. This podcast is more than a good listen — it may inspire you. WILL Alumni and Guests break the confines of traditional practice, and you’ll see that change is not just possible for them, but for you too.
Feel stuck, unhappy and ready to explore a WILL journey of your own? Book your consultation with Elena: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com/book-a-call
Summer SOULstice Wooshop Join our SUMMER SOULstice Wooshop on June 22nd (Early bird price until June 15th). Register here: https://elenadeutsch931.lpages.co/soulstice-wooshop-june-2025/
Follow LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-deutsch/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/womeninterestedinleavinglaw Web: https://womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com
References Kristin Neff, Self-compassion | |||