When The Wolves Came – Details, episodes & analysis

Christian nationalism has divided white evangelical churches; one Phoenix pastor and some unlikely allies are at the forefront of a growing resistance.

Extremist politics have upended the evangelical world. Over the course of 6 episodes, Sociologist Ruth Braunstein examines the efforts of the insiders who are resisting white Christian nationalism.

When The Wolves Came launches March 4.

About Dr. Braunstein:

Ruth Braunstein is an award-winning sociologist who studies religion, politics, and money. She is Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Connecticut, where she leads the Meanings of Democracy Lab, which researches the growing resistance to Christian Nationalism. As part of this work, she created and hosts the audio documentary When the Wolves Came: Evangelicals Resisting Extremism. Her forthcoming book, My Tax Dollars: The Morality of Taxpaying in America, explores how taxpaying has become a moral battleground in public life.

WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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Political divisions within Pastor Caleb’s church and at a leading Christian magazine reveal how predominantly white evangelical spaces became hothouses for Christian nationalism. Republican politics, militant masculinity and QAnon conspiracy theories all contribute to its spread.

Show Notes:

Learn more: The Persistence of QAnon in the Post-Trump Era: An Analysis of Who Believes the Conspiracies | PRRI

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future.

Napp Nazworth, Ph.D., is Executive Director of American Values Coalition. He previously worked in academia teaching courses in U.S. government, Congress, and religion and politics; and as a journalist, serving as opinion editor and politics editor for The Christian Post.

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years.

For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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Pastor Caleb Campbell leads an evangelical church in Phoenix. After Trump’s first election, Caleb became alarmed at rising religious extremism in evangelical spaces. And he should know: before he returned to the church, Pastor Caleb was a neo-Nazi skinhead.

Show Notes:

Learn more about American’s attitudes about Christian nationalism: Support for Christian Nationalism in All 50 States: Findings from PRRI’s 2024 American Values Atlas

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. More at https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. 

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me

For more go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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COVID-19 church closures, a summer of Black Lives Matter protests, and a tense Presidential election all fan the flames of white Christian nationalism. Two churches in Phoenix react in wildly different ways, with dramatic results. 

Content warning: this episode includes a depiction of police violence that might be disturbing to some listeners.

Show Notes:

Learn more: Religious Change in America | PRRI

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University.  Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Linda Morris was called to the ministry in 1986 and has served at the First Pentecostal Church, the Mountain States Council and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World including being a founding member of the PAW Single People’s Alliance and a former member of the Convention Evangelism Outreach Services (C.E.O.S.). She recently led the Surge Network Women In Leadership and serves as Outreach Director at First Pentecostal Church where she also teaches biblical worldview, wholistic ministry, and evangelism and outreach for the church’s discipleship classes and other groups

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me

Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). He is the author of The New York Times bestselling book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future. 

Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ.  Nathan joined the Desert Springs Bible Church board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there.

For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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Evangelical leaders horrified by the extremism in their churches wonder: Is it better to break ties with people who you believe are dangerously wrong – or try to lead them out of the dark? Pastor Caleb comes up with a surprising plan. 

Show Notes

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. 

Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ. Nathan joined the DSBC board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there.

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Jared Stacy (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is an ethicist and theologian based in Washington DC. His research focuses on evangelical theology, digital media, and political extremisms, particularly conspiracy theory and mis/disinformation. 

Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, and How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar is the co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast. 

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. 

For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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The new Trump Administration may openly embrace white Christian nationalism, but Pastor Caleb and other evangelical resistors are gaining momentum. They’re connecting to a bigger pro-democracy movement where faith groups and secular groups are uneasily allied against theocracy.

Show Notes:

Learn more and Follow Ruth Braunstein’s Substack.

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University.  Her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics, and her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years.

Jemar Tisby is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the Church's Complicity in Racism, How to Fight Racism, and How to Fight Racism: Young Reader's Edition. He is also a Professor of History at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville. Jemar is the co-host of the "Pass the Mic" podcast. 

Napp Nazworth, Ph.D., is Executive Director of American Values Coalition. He previously worked in academia teaching courses in U.S. government, Congress, and religion and politics; and as a journalist, serving as opinion editor and politics editor for The Christian Post.

Katherine Stewart is the award-winning author of Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. https://katherinestewart.me

For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

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We attend a Christian nationalist event shortly before the 2024 election and talk to an extremism expert about how to prevent radicalization. One QAnon believer changes his tune with the help of Pastor Caleb and his church.

Show Notes:

Learn more: Multi-faith Neighbors Network Peacemakers Toolkit and Disarming Leviathan

Episode Guests:

Caleb E. Campbell is a pastor at Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, and the author of Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor. https://www.disarmingleviathan.com/

Dr. Cynthia Miller-Idriss is a Professor in the School of Public Affairs and in the School of Education at the American University in Washington, DC, where she is also the founding director of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab.

John Thielepape is Director of Projects at GlocalNet and Multi-faith Neighbors Network in Keller, TX.  John attended Belmont University, Baylor University, and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary obtaining BBA, Master of Divinity, and Doctor of Ministry degrees.

Lionel Estrada is a father, grandfather, Jesus follower, worship leader, songwriter and addiction/trauma therapist from Phoenix, AZ. He has been a member of Desert Springs Bible Church for almost 20 years.

Nathan Whitchurch graduated from the University of Southern California in 2007 with a B.S. Mechanical Engineering degree and moved to Phoenix, AZ.  Nathan joined the DSBC board of elders in 2013 and continues to serve as an elder, volunteer, and spiritual leader there.

For more, including full transcripts, go to WhenTheWolvesCame.org

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.