What Makes You Click? – Details, episodes & analysis

In this episode I get to chat with longstanding friend, journalist and best selling cat author, Celia Haddon, with whom I have recently co-authored my latest book "Being your cat - what's really going on in your feline's mind" (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Being-Your-Cat-Inside-Felines/dp/178840405X/ref=monarch_sidesheet). I learn that trying to interview a journalist is not an easy thing to do, and perhaps the tables get turned on me. We discuss a lot of cat literature and out views on living and also writing about cats. Hope you enjoy it. 

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Bob Cook is a pioneering equine veterinarian and emeritus professor at Tufts University, working in the field of ear, nose and throat medicine, who has championed a reconsideration of how we interact and communicate with horses. In his career he has identified many performance and medical problems which he was the first to attribute to the use of the bit. I got to know Bob, through his work on headshaking in horses and his work directly inspired some of my own PhD on this topic (and coincidentally 2 other people I worked with also called Cook! another point we discuss in this chat) I was therefore very privileged when he reached out to me quite a few years and asked if we could collaborate on some work he was doing. This was eventually published as: Cook, W. R., & Mills, D. S. (2009). Preliminary study of jointed snaffle vs. crossunder bitless bridles: Quantified comparison of behaviour in four horses. Equine veterinary journal, 41(8), 827-830. Bob has been pioneering a move towards bit-free riding for many years and we discuss this at length, along with his concerns about the bit and so much more. We also discuss shoes and saddles. I hope you enjoy the discussion. 
We mention a few websites and details are below. 
https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/
I would particularly recommend his recent publications here:
https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/does-use-of-a-bit-endanger-the-health-and-safety-of-horse-and-rider-professor-robert-cook-july-2022/
https://worldbitlessassociation.org/resources/the-effect-of-bit-induced-pain-in-the-horse-on-the-feelings-of-riders-about-riding-2022/
another great article we refer to can be found here: https://en.weltexpress.info/2021/09/29/pain-free-horsemannship/
Bob has always been willing to discuss his ideas and share his knowledge so it was a treat for me to finally catch up with him face-o-face through this chat. You can check out his website here: https://bitlessbridle.com/

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In this episode I get to chat with pioneer in HAI and visiting professor at Lincoln, Dr Sandra McCune. 
Sandra qualified as a registered veterinary nurse (Royal College of Veterinary Nursing) in Dublin before completing a degree in zoology from Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. She has a PhD in animal behaviour and welfare from the University of Cambridge, U.K. She has studied a range of companion animal topics including aspects of temperament, behaviour, cognition and welfare, and Human-Animal Interaction (HAI).

Until 2019, Sandra was a scientific leader for Mars Petcare, based at the Waltham Petcare Science Institute. For 12 years, she led the HAI area in research and then HAI science communications, and established Mars as the industry’s thought leader in this field. She has extensive experience studying HAI from both animal and human perspectives in collaborations with HAI researchers from the USA, U.K., Austria, France, Germany, Australia, Brazil, Russia, Japan and China and regularly presents internationally on companion animals and their relationship with people.

Sandra was instrumental in the establishment of the public-private partnership between the National Institutes of Health and Mars/WALTHAM focused on child development and HAI resulting in a multi-million dollar programme of high-quality HAI research, workshops and several edited volumes, journal series and book chapters.
She is the founding director of Animal Matters Consultancy Ltd, providing expert input on a wide range of animal issues. She is a SCAS trustee and a Fellow of the Annenberg PetSpace Leadership Institute. She shares her home with her family including two cats and a lurcher.

Researchgate profile: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sandra_Mccune/publications.

Twitter: @sandra_mccune LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-mccune/

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In this chat I catch up with French veterinarian and behaviour scientist Patrick Pageat. Patrick is the father of pheromonatherapy, being the person who developed the first commercial pheromone products for companion animals (Feliway and Adaptil). He is also the originator of what has become known as the "French" approach to clinical animal behaviour and in this chat discusses how it came about and how his views of this approach have changed over time - to the point that he is concerned how it is currently being applied. He is also a passionate horseman and so we chat about that too. A really interesting and candid insight into both the man and his work.

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In this episode I get to catch up with Kendal Shepherd, who has created a range of resources to help reduce the risk of conflict between dogs and humans of all ages. Kendal has a remarkable ability to simplify complex ideas to make them more accessible. She is also a leading expert witness in cases involving dog injuries and the Dangerous Dogs Act.

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In this episode I get to catch up with my former tutor at Bristol, Prof Christine Nicol. She discusses how nerve-wracking it was to start out at Bristol, but how she came to lead the development of perhaps the biggest animal welfare group in the world. We discuss ethical and practical issues concerning animal welfare research and its communication to a wider audience (Would you eat an alien?);  also a bit about our horse work.

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I have known Don for many years, indeed he was my PhD examiner, and we had great discussion then! He was the first professor of Animal Welfare in the world - a truly amazing pioneer. Always thoughtful and thought-provoking. We discuss his early career and influences, the emergence of animal welfare as a scientific field, as well as how he has got interested in the evolution of morality and religion and his greatest achievements. Essential listening for anyone interested in animal welfare and scientific thinking. 

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I catch up with pioneering cat behaviourist and anthrozzologist Dennis Turner. We talk about how he ended up in this field and some of the people he has met along the way. As always Dennis is candid aboout his opinions and provides valuable insight into various aspects of the field. I really enjoyed hearing about Paul Leyhausen, who wrote the seminal text on cat behaviour and while I have his book, much of his research is in German. Dennis also flags some other researchers who be less well known to those of us with limited linguistic ability. Links to relevant websites can be found on the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/v-bvwW2si7w

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In this episode I catch up with  companion animal blogger and psychologist Zazie Todd PhD. We discuss the public communication of science and some of the challenges associated with selling positive trainign methods. We also discuss her late arrival to the love of dogs. 

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In this episode I catch up with Simon Gadbois. His father was a student of Piaget, and he himself did his PhD with the late great John Fentress ( a former student of Robert Hinde). So he has a really balanced view of the ehtological-psychological distinction. His work on how complex behaviours can arise from relatively simple rules without complex cognition is fascinating and he has a strong interest in the philosophy of science; both topics we cover in this episode, before moving on to to more canid specific stuff in part 2. I would recommend this episode to every graduate student doing behaviour work, but also anyone intersted in how we "know" things. 

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