Unchurchable – Details, episodes & analysis

When Dr Luke Wilson reached out to me with a copy of his book, I was struck by the most obvious thing in the world - I'm the ex-wife of a gay conversion therapy survivor but I've never had someone on the podcast who could actually talk in depth about that very thing.    I guess it was too close to home. But its time. We need to move from representation to meaningful change, and that means understanding on a deep and nuanced level that sexual orientation and gender identity change efforts aren't always what you think they are.  This episode hits on some big topics. Mental health, sexuality, genocide. Look after yourself as you listen. And remember you can call helplines if you need. In Australia, Lifeline is 13 11 14 and Qlife is 1800 184 527. In America, you can call 988. This is important stuff for all of us. But if its you, its REALLY important. There are safe hands to catch you as you recover.  The long-ass URL for Dr Luke's book, Shame-Sex Attraction is as follows: https://www.amazon.com.au/Shame-Sex-Attraction-Survivors-Stories-Conversion-ebook/dp/B0D1S6SHC8/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.68eQVaWIgXB4gJREAz4RVPbwpkkCcVmdfJlm2WsT94Mnu2tfgUqzMhIVzDdME3t13Eth7h1oBh8slz8hQdk24wKq0TW4WLFIA3DIhDNVaV4.FxuRjpQ7Xp9MBxN-GqDYKhC_ZWqJX3TOy0nUcAmUzl4&dib_tag=se&keywords=shame-sex+attraction&qid=1733923623&sr=8-1   Luke's social media handles are as follows.  Instagram: @lukeslamdunkwilson Threads: @lukeslamdunkwilson Bluesky: @lukeslamdunkwilson.bsky.social Twitter/X: @wilson_fw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96  

In this episode of "The Pipelines" series, we meet Jane Kennedy. While she is now a religious trauma therapist and co-founder of the Religious Trauma Collective in Australia (which compiles resources and religious trauma-informed therapists for those of us who are recovering), she was once a youth leader and church planter.  In this episode, Jane and I talk about some of the big themes that have emerged in her walk into and out of church, and the things that pop up in therapy a lot: from white saviourism, to dissociation, body awareness, "the father heart of God" and other recruitment tactics. Jane's calm presence and hard-won wisdom makes this episode a lot more relaxing than it could be!  Find her at: on Substack at https://jane748.substack.com

and on Instagram at @janekennedycounselling 

 

Find me at: clareheathmcivor.substack.com and on instagram at @unchurchablepod or @clare_heathmcivor

Planetshakers, politics, porn scandals, branch stacking, coercive control, puppy dogs and exvangelical life - this episode has it all. Brent Hodgson is a political commentator, campaign data guy and marketing guru who provides immense insight into the trends and tendencies in the Australian political scene. It just also happens that is ex-Planet-shakers and watched from the pews as the Australian megachurch faced down a scandal for the history books. In this episode, Brent shares his insights into the potential demise of the Australian Liberal Party following right-wing infiltration (thanks dominionists and faltering micro parties). If you're an Aussie and you're lost in the wind as to what is going on here, or if you're from overseas and wondering what the political situation is over here - settle in with a cuppa. This episode has all the tea

It was hard to know what to call this one. Emma Ocean is, pun intended, an ocean of wisdom based on the lived experience of escaping toxic religion and the qualified experience of a psychologist with a bit of mysticism, cosmetology, philosophy and shadow-working brilliance thrown in. It was a conversation full of light-bulb moments for me as we talked about the healing journey, the scintilla or spark of that universal light in all of us, and some gentle wisdom for people from all spaces in deconstruction as we wade through the work of healing and finding ourselves. Oh, and there are Julia Roberts references in here too. 

Angela Herrington is a deconstruction coach. What exactly is that? She's not going to tell you, because every deconstruction journey is different. But one thing is for sure, we all need someone in our corner who will hold space for us, refuse to embody any sort of control or coerciveness, and who can help us understand that deconstruction is as much about grief and loss as it is about anything else. Join us as we talk about all the things, and find Angela on the interwebs at www.angelajherrington.com 

This session lead off with me forgetting to cancel the podcast, dropping the kids off at school late, and turning up to do an interview unprepared, unshowered, and without a stitch of makeup. For reference, Kit Kennedy is glam af and never unprepared. But Andrew lead off with "if it aint messy it aint worth it," and we were friends straight away. Actually, what I felt from my conversation with Andrew was safety...and thats what he offers people who are dipping their toes into the uncertain waters of deconstruction, or who are trying to hold onto faith in a way that feels safe. Its a great sesh. Enjoy

In the first episode of unchurchable for 2022, I chat with Becki from "Also Your Daughters" on Instagram. Her's is a brand of deconstruction that I so badly needed to witness: a woman calling things what they are and doing it with humor. It's a strange muscle to have to learn to flex when you've been told that emotions like anger, assertiveness or blunt honesty are not feminine or acceptable. Guess what! They are both! In this chat, we talk about boundaries, rage humour, feminism, and life in general - and I confess I laughed entirely too much in this episode  because I was perhaps a bit excited to be back, and perhaps a bit nervous to be in the interviewers chair after so long out of it! This conversation is as much about finding your resolve and your supportive community as it is finding your voice and your right to exist in the unique space you want to, rather than the role you were cast in but never wanted. Enjoy!

A big part of deconstruction is re-looking at anti-feminist theology, purity culture and the way these impacted attitudes to women, sexuality, sensuality and pleasure. Now look, I'll be straight up and say I'm only just learning to be comfortable talking about it and I still feel a bit heretical thinking that maybe its okay to be sex-positive and still call myself a sorta-kinda-okay-Jesus post-Christian something something. To this end, this episode has been positively medicinal for me, as Reverend Doctor Beverley Dale takes us inside the Bible and shows us that the Bible has been shown to us in a way that sanitises it, but pleasure, sexuality and sensuality are there in black (and red) and white. Certainly not contraband like so many of us have been taught. 

The wonderful Meg Cowan has been on my list of interviewees for a while - a fellow Southern Hemisphere girl from across the ditch in New Zealand. Her work as a sex and intimacy coach has seen Meg in the long grass of helping purity culture survivors reclaim and heal their relationship with their bodies. This conversation was one we had a couple of goes at, and I promise you its worth a listen. It goes without saying that this episode carries a content warning. But don't all the good tings in life. Enjoy

I'm more than happy to admit it: I'll happily talk about a lot of things in the deconstruction space, but sin hasn't been one of them. Its been too big of a concept - too scary even. It's also a confusing one when you delve into it. If God is love, why are we all "born with a sin nature" that means we get dropped into a lake of fire for eternity unless we belief the right thing, say the magic words and never do wrong. Bit of a high bar wouldn't you say? Bit unloving maybe? Steven Denler, the man behind TAP Theology has been doing some serious work on this and I'm so glad he took a moment to stop by the pod and talk about it. I can tell you now: the sin means something completely different to me now. And somehow, God is kinder too. I'm down with that. Get ready for the most philosophically heavy chat I've had in a while. Enjoy!