In today's hyper-accelerated communications world, keeping up means juggling reputation, brand building, crisis management, storytelling, and more while adapting to new technologies like generative AI. The Trending Communicator, hosted by Dan Nestle, is your guide through this chaotic landscape. This podcast dives into the challenges of PR, communications, and marketing today, with experts sharing real stories and strategies for overcoming those challenges and more. It's the perfect resource for professionals looking to innovate, take risks, and stay ahead. Join us to make sense of today’s communications chaos, one insightful conversation at a time.
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Spectacular Communications Requires Audacious Communicators - with Mark Schaefer
Friday, August 23, 2024 • Duration 01:07:39
All of us know we're in an age of disruption. If you want to thrive and grow as a communicator or marketer, it's not AI you have to worry about. What should keep you up at night is the prospect of succumbing to the Dull. AI can do dull better than you can. You have to flee the dull and be bold. You have to be audacious.
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle finally, after countless name drops, references, and bold claims to be friends with a particular marketing legend, puts his money where his mouth is and welcomes to the show his mentor, confidant, friend, and arguably his man crush, the one and only Mark Schaefer.
After Dan perpetrates some gushing, he and Mark go straight into the chaotic "Now" and the need for a clear vision of the future. They talk about the impact of AI on communications and marketing, and Mark offers his sobering perspective: yes, AI can be terrifying for anyone creating content because it's "good enough" to generate boring, compliant corporate messaging. He says that AI will "unleash a pandemic of dull" - and if we want to succeed in the future, we'll need to be bold, crazy, and audacious. He goes on to say that the result could be spectacular work by those of us who can rise above the dull.
They also get into the significance of personal branding, both internally within companies and externally. Mark reinforces the idea that being Known and trusted, especially in an era where deepfakes and misinformation are rampant, is critical to future success.
Throughout the episode, Dan and Mark explore the challenges and opportunities presented by technological advancements, urging communicators to embrace bold, audacious strategies to stay relevant. The conversation concludes with remarks about Mark's upcoming book, tentatively titled "Audacious: A Rebel's Guide to Disruptive Marketing," set to release in January.
Listen in and hear about...
Mark's new book!
How marketing and communications are merging in today's chaotic landscape.
AI's transformative role in marketing and communication strategies.
The importance of authenticity and grit in content creation.
AI's impact on entry-level jobs and the future of onboarding new talent.
Why building a personal brand within organizations is crucial for career growth.
Challenges that large companies face in adapting to rapid cultural and technological changes.
The necessity of community and collaboration to stay updated with fast-paced industry trends.
Notable Quotes
On the Role of Marketing in Companies:
- "I think in this day and age, almost everybody's in marketing, everybody in your company that influences your conversation with your customer, your reputation with your customer." — Mark Schaefer [00:04:37 → 00:04:47]
On the Intersection of Marketing and Communications:
- " We're talking about reaching out to audiences and creating that market, creating a market either for your goods or for your ideas or for your message and all the above." — Dan Nestle [00:05:53 → 00:06:09]
On the Impact of AI on Jobs:
- "I think it will eliminate a lot of lower level jobs and it'll eliminate, you know, some entry level jobs." — Mark Schaefer [00:11:19 → 00:11:27]
On the Future of Content Creation:
- "In the next twelve months, you'll be able to make a full length motion picture on your laptop computer, including the script and the, you know, the dialogue and the score and the art and everything you would want." — Mark Schaefer [00:14:55 → 00:15:11]
On Authenticity in Marketing:
- "The key to creating a video that connects on an emotional level is to leave mistakes in. Maybe some of the video is a little blurry, maybe a little of the audio is a little scratchy, but it makes you feel like you're right there." — Mark Schaefer [00:17:28 → 00:17:40]
On the Pandemic of Dull:
- "AI is going to be very capable. That's also going to unleash this pandemic of dull. And every communicator out there is going to be fighting against this pandemic of dull." — Mark Schaefer [00:26:14 → 00:26:27]
On the Future of Corporate Content:
- "If you're writing content that's easily approved by legal, you're going to be gone. You've got to start reaching into more communications that can't be ignored, that cannot be commoditized." — Mark Schaefer [00:26:14 → 00:26:27]
On the Role of Personal Branding:
- "Anybody, any employee, any person anywhere should be building their own personal brand. And I think people are confused. They think, oh, that means I want to be solo and be on my own. Not necessarily, but if somebody is in a company and doesn't have the influence, they don't have a personal brand." — Dan Nestle [00:47:37 → 00:47:55]
On the Role of Community in Staying Relevant:
- "I cannot be relevant without a community behind me in our rise community. We have people from all around the world helping each other, nurturing each other, talking about, this works. This doesn't, I tried this, use this." — Mark Schaefer [01:04:41 → 01:05:00]
On the Importance of Grit and Authenticity:
- "Grit, a little crazy and a lot of audacity." — Mark Schaefer [01:06:51 → 01:06:54]
On the Importance of Community:
- "I can with 1000% certainty say that my understanding of AI and my joy of it is absolutely due to my involvement with the rise community and just that whole process of helping to build that community and being part of it." — Dan Nestle [01:05:00 → 01:05:15]
Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Personal Brand (00:00 - 15:00)
Daniel Nestle introduces Mark Schaefer as a marketing expert and communicator
Mark emphasizes the importance of personal brand in the age of AI
Discussion on the blurring lines between marketing and communications
Mark highlights the need for authenticity and 'grit' in content creation
🤖 AI and Content Creation (15:00 - 30:00)
Exploration of AI's impact on lower-level jobs in marketing and communications
Mark discusses the need for human creativity and 'crazy' ideas to stand out
Emphasis on the importance of authenticity in a world of AI-generated content
Discussion on the future of corporate communication in the age of AI
🏢 Corporate Culture and Innovation (30:00 - 45:00)
Mark talks about the challenges of innovation in large corporations
Discussion on the importance of internal personal branding
Emphasis on the need for quick experimentation and 'pilots' in companies
Mark introduces his upcoming book 'Audacious' on disruptive marketing
🌐 Future of Marketing and Communications (45:00 - 60:00)
Discussion on the importance of community in staying relevant
Mark emphasizes the need for human touch in marketing strategies
Talk about the rise of AI tools and their impact on content verification
Mark's prediction: 'The most human company wins'
🎬 Wrap-up and Resources (60:00 - 01:07:06)
Daniel provides information on Mark's blog and podcast
Discussion on the RISE community and its benefits
Mark's final thoughts on the importance of humanity in business
(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
How Communications Drives Organizational Health - with Ethan McCarty
Friday, August 9, 2024 • Duration 01:07:51
Is the Communications function, as many in our profession claim, an organization's nerve center? Where messages and stories are the electric impulses that cause synapses to fire, muscles to move, and hearts to beat? Or is this understating the case? Are we missing the bigger picture?
In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle welcomes back thought leader, educator, and dear friend Ethan McCarty, the CEO of Integral. Known for his innovative approach to employee experience and communications technology, Ethan has been a guiding force in shaping how organizations communicate internally and externally. while devoting nearly as much time to giving back to the profession as he has spent building his successful agency.
Dan and Ethan have a wide-ranging conversation that touches on the essence of effective communication within organizations, and the critical impact of communications on corporate health. They explore Ethan's approach to viewing employees as public: By treating employees with the same strategic importance as external audiences, companies can foster a more engaged and productive workforce.
The discussion also delves into the impact of AI and CommsTech on the future of corporate communications. Ethan shares his thoughts on how technology can enhance communication strategies, streamline operations, and create a more dynamic corporate environment. He emphasizes the importance of ethical frameworks and the need for organizations to invest in listening and understanding their employees' needs and perspectives.
Ethan's insights are not just theoretical; they are grounded in practical experience and real-world applications. He discusses the challenges and opportunities that come with leading a communications agency and offers valuable advice for both seasoned professionals and those new to the field. From the importance of continuous learning and adaptation to the role of strategic intelligence in communications, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways.
Tune in to learn how you can elevate your communication efforts, embrace technological advancements, and create a more engaged and effective workforce.
"Thinking of employees as a public is... of great strategic value." — [00:07:07 → 00:07:10]
Understanding the Neuroscience Behind Effective Communications - with Dr. Laura McHale
Friday, April 5, 2024 • Duration 01:09:01
How do language and psychology impact leadership behavior and financial performance in organizations? Are we overlooking the influence of corporate language?
Dan and Laura explore the intersection of neuroscience and organizational communication, looking into Laura’s background in executive communications and her journey into neuroscience for leadership psychology. They delve into how status affects the brain, the SCARF model, and the concept of power distance in workplace dynamics before examining the complexities of employee engagement, the impact of social exclusion, and the importance of relatedness for a sense of belonging. They touch on the challenges of absentee leadership and the significance of inclusive communication practices for a positive work environment.
They also discuss the intricate relationship between language, communication, and AI within organizational contexts. Laura emphasizes the significance of "pronoun agility" and the problematic nature of weasel words in corporate communication. Using Enron's internal communications as a case study, they explore how language can reflect a company's financial health. The conversation also addresses the potential of AI, like ChatGPT, to revolutionize the communications field while also considering the risks of misuse and the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience. The episode concludes with reflections on the future skills needed by communicators in an AI-influenced landscape.
Listen in and hear…
The importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in communications within organizations
The complexity of communication in remote interactions and interpreting cues
The neuroscience behind followership and cultural influences on behavior
Impact of status on the brain and the SCARF model
Leader distance or power distance and its effect on communication dynamics
Why Every Communicator Needs to Think Faster and Talk Smarter - with Matt Abrahams
Friday, March 22, 2024 • Duration 59:50
….and we’re back! Welcome to the first episode of The Trending Communicator. Dan Nestle reignites the airwaves with an electrifying new episode that will teach you how to think faster and talk smarter with communication expert, Stanford professor, author, and podcaster, Matt Abrahams.
Dan and Matt explore the nuances of effective communication and impromptu speaking. They discuss the importance of mindset, active listening, and structured communication in professional settings. Matt shares practical strategies, such as managing anxiety with academically verified techniques, reframing speaking situations as opportunities, and adopting a growth mindset.
They highlight the use of storytelling and structured frameworks like the Problem-Solution-Benefit method and the hero's journey to craft compelling narratives. The episode also addresses cultural communication differences, the significance of audience-centric approaches, and some thoughts on how AI might affect our approach to impromptu speaking. The conversation provides actionable advice for enhancing communication skills across various contexts.
This riveting conversation isn't just talk; it's a blueprint for revolutionizing your communication skills across every domain.
Listen in and hear…
The importance of effective communication and storytelling
Managing anxiety and building confidence in speaking
Reframing spontaneous speaking situations as opportunities
Mindset shifts for successful impromptu speaking
Techniques for adopting a growth mindset
Improving listening skills through pace, space, and grace
The role of structure and focus in effective communication
Using frameworks and structures for impactful communication
Challenges of communication in different cultural and professional contexts
How AI might affect impromptu speaking
Structured approaches to pitching ideas
Notable Quotes
[12:27] - “Most people, up to 85% of people, report being anxious in high-stakes situations.” - Matt Abrahams
Meet the New Boss, Same As The Old Boss: Welcome to The Trending Communicator
Monday, March 18, 2024 • Duration 06:02
Discover the surprising transformation of "The Dan Nestle Show" into "The Trending Communicator." Just when you thought you knew what to expect, Dan flips the script, bringing a whole new focus on the power players in PR, communications, and marketing. Get ready to dive deep into the ever-changing world of communications, explore cutting-edge innovations, and unravel the impact of technology on our profession. Join Dan as he uncovers the secrets of information control and the immense responsibility that comes with it. But wait, there's more! Be prepared to meet the movers and shakers who are shaping the future of communications, from AI to neuroscience and beyond. Brace yourself for some mind-blowing insights and captivating discussions. It's a whole new era with "The Trending Communicator." Are you ready to join the conversation? Check back soon for episode one and get ready to be amazed.
Like these notes? You can thank Capsho, my AI podcast notes assistant.
Antisemitism In Our Time - A Dan Nestle Show Interlude
Episode 115
Friday, October 27, 2023 • Duration 18:17
In this special episode, Dan shares his thoughts on the rapid rise in antisemitism in the weeks after Hamas brutally and barbarically murdered, maimed, raped, and kidnapped innocent Israelis, tourists, and visiting workers in southern Israel on October 7, 2023. These terrorists, on the worst day for Jews since the Holocaust, murdered approximately 1500 innocents, injured thousands more, and took over 200 hostages - including infants, children, elderly, disabled, and ill people from 33 countries. And they recorded all of it.
Despite these atrocities and the incontrovertible evidence of the October 7 pogrom, despite the fact that innocents were deliberately attacked and the Hamas terrorists paraded hostages and dead bodies through the streets of Gaza amidst joyful crowds, despite the fact that Israeli babies were beheaded, despite the fact that Hamas openly calls for the elimination of the State of Israel and explicitly calls on its followers to kill Jews wherever they find them...despite all of this, anti-Israel, pro-Hamas, and - yes - antisemitic groups around the world took less than a day to start rallies, protests, marches, and a PR blitz AGAINST Israel and Jews. These despicable groups - a metastatic cancer that has spread around the world - have denied the atrocities and justified the Hamas attacks under any number of abhorrent ideologies. It wasn't long before synagogues were burning, Jewish property defaced and damaged, Jewish businesses vandalized, and violent incidents targeting Jewish people - including children, students, and the elderly - became a daily occurrence.
This inhumanity, this evil scourge of antisemitism, has deep roots in academia, religion, culture, and history. It has been the lifeblood of those who have persecuted and oppressed Jews for over two millennia. It has led to expulsions, pogroms, and the Holocaust. It has afflicted 15 million people presently living on Earth with an ever-present anxiety and fear of extermination. And now it is undeniably on the rise again, fueling Jew hatred everywhere.
Why, then, is antisemitism ignored and denied? Why is it that our cowardly leaders can't say antisemitism without also invoking Islamophobia and generic hate? Why have CEOs and influencers who were and are so quick to support BLM, Ukraine, the Trans movement, anti-Asian hate, and a multitude of other causes, remained silent? Why have university professors, student groups, and administrators gone completely and utterly mad?
114: How Emotion and Intuition are Powerful Career Tools with Sara McElroy
Episode 114
Friday, September 29, 2023 • Duration 01:24:56
In this episode, Dan sits down with marketer, author, and two-time resigner turned bonafide career transition master Sara J. McElroy. Sara’s journey looks a lot like the picture of success: academic achievement followed by a steady rise in marketing and ultimately to a CMO role. But in the midst of the Great Resignation, her battles with overwork, toxic workplaces, health crises, and sexual harassment all led to two resignations, a spiritual awakening, personal empowerment, and a mission to help women find their voices and take charge of their careers. Now, as founder and CEO of Raze to Rise, she’s on a mission to “uplift the voices of women from the Great Resignation across diverse walks of life, industries, functions, and career stages” and empower women to “make bold career moves.”
She and Dan cover a lot of ground as Sara challenges conventional, “rational” career choices and argues that emotions, intuition, and physiology have a massive role to play in making life-changing decisions. Here’s a taste of what you’ll learn about through their conversation:
How and when to manage your career.
Career management is a mindset and an inside job.
The most important times in your career before making the leap.
Career transitions can be messy and it’s necessary … the Messcessary.
The life experience that prompted a life change.
The unlikely gift of Shingles.
Getting off the grid can often be the best thing.
Most professionals need more than a weekend to plot their next moves.
The critical role sexual harassment played in her life choices.
Seeing the connections of random events.
Forward-thinking themes that came from the pandemic, especially for women.
The value of self-discovery and the role it plays in balancing life.
We can have a plan, but until we experience it, we don’t know.
Missing the senses of when it’s time to move on.
How to learn and leverage body signals.
The danger of internal capitalism.
113: How Communications Brings Purpose to Life with Michael Morris
Episode 113
Sunday, September 17, 2023 • Duration 01:23:07
In this episode, Dan reconnects with a former colleague and marketing communications collaborator, Michael Morris. A world traveler who has spent his career putting purpose at the forefront of everything he does, Michael recently co-founded Denmark-based Engagement Lab, an advisory firm specializing in behavioral insights, brand building, competitive positioning, and strategic communications – and focused exclusively on businesses in the green transition.
Dan and Michael dig into the importance of purpose and serendipity in career decisions as they explore Michael's fascinating story. Early in his career, during a stint in Ghana that didn't go according to plan, Michael realized that being a communicator gave him a unique role in bringing purpose to life, not just for himself but for his company and colleagues as well. His later work with World Vision propelled him on a purpose-driven path that continued through his work at MHI Vestas Offshore Wind, helping improve the lives of others through strategic communication.
Through their conversation...
Discover the road to fulfillment and maximum impact in your career, guided by purpose and authentic communication.
Uncover the value hidden in networks and mentorships and how they unlock doors to personal and professional growth.
Grasp the transformative power of empathy in fostering genuine relationships, elevating marketing communications to new heights.
Understand the game-changing role of energy transition and sustainability in setting new standards for careers and businesses.
Delve into the fascinating interplay between AI and the writing landscape, highlighting the tightrope balance between creativity amplification and preservation.
Notable Quotes:
“It’s important for us to recognize poignant moments when they happen.” – (8:21), Michael
“Every person that you meet is a whole new door to who knows what else.” – (11:00), Dan
112: Emotion, Connection, and Trust in Marketing with Aaron Hassen
Episode 112
Thursday, August 31, 2023 • Duration 01:21:09
In this episode, Dan dives deep into some of his favorite topics with seasoned marketing pro, thought leader, podcaster, and fellow denizen of the RISE Community, Aaron Hassen. An Air Force veteran with decades of corporate B2B sales and marketing experience, Aaron is the founder and Chief Marketer of AH Marketing, his consultancy focused on helping B2B clients multiply their annual growth. Never afraid to chase down a new idea or pursue a theory, Aaron’s bold stance on current marketing matters has led him to become “the founder’s best friend and secret weapon.” As a founder-turned-marketer, he knows what owners and founders need to market their businesses and stay connected to customers.
He and Dan explore some of that as they discuss how trust and emotion are absolutely necessary to make the kinds of connections that will shape the current and next generation of business. Listen to their conversation, and you will:
Discover the essential role of trust and connection in marketing for strengthening customer relationships.
Understand how to utilize personal branding to establish a formidable bond with your target audience.
Unearth the potential of communities in fostering trust and creating a solid connection with your customer base.
Recognize the impact of face-to-face interaction in building an authentic connection and lasting trust.
Learn the significance of aligning your brand values with consumers to reinforce your brand identity and build trust.
Notable Quotes:
“I learned from sales to listen and to really listen deeply with empathy and understanding.” (10:31), Aaron.
“Servant leaders and great entrepreneurs embody the same things.” – (13:17), Aaron.
“Sometimes we get behind these closed doors and we start to think selfishly and that’s the worst thing you can do in terms of acquiring customers in my view.” - (14:40), Aaron.
“Consumers have control of a brand’s reputation, and they have access to product information like they never have before.” – (16:55), Aaron.
111: Leadership Evolved with Ken Jacobs
Episode 111
Tuesday, August 15, 2023 • Duration 01:18:35
In this episode, Dan welcomes back legendary communicator, connector, and executive coach to the PR industry, Ken Jacobs, for his second appearance on the show. Back in January 2021, he and Dan talked about leadership and purpose in the agency world. Now, with the pandemic in the rearview, has widespread indecision and inconsistency around remote work, hybrid work, and RTO (Return to Office) changed the nature of leadership and management?
Ken and Dan dig into some of the changes we’ve seen over the past few years and try to find some answers. Ken walks us through the nuances of building a team in a remote setting and why managers still must be able to build and manage teams effectively. Remote working doesn’t seem like it’s going away anytime soon, even as some organizations push for a return to more traditional work settings. No matter what organizations are doing, though, the past few years have highlighted the importance of connection and connectedness for effective leadership - and we need a new playbook.
In this episode, you will be able to:
Uncover the ever-progressing dynamics of leadership within the context of the PR industry in a fluctuating global environment.
Navigate the ins and outs of remote work and running teams virtually in a post-pandemic world.
Find the balance between granting autonomy, instilling trust, and avoiding micromanagement in a team-centric setting.
Gain insight into the pivotal role of AI and other groundbreaking technologies in reshaping the PR industry.
Appreciate why adopting a learning attitude and making learning a lifetime habit stands as a key cornerstone of successful leadership.
Notable Quotes:
“I think this whole notion of connecting more and wanting to connect more and wanting more time together is partly due to the lockdown and also, they want to spend time with people who are natural connectors.” – (3:17), Ken
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The influence of key mentors and colleagues on professional growth.
The importance of employee experience in modern communications.
How AI and technology are reshaping content creation and workflows.
The role of internal communications in shaping organizational culture.
The impact of political and social issues on workplace dynamics.
Strategies for integrating employee feedback into business decisions.
The evolving expectations of employees in a personalized work environment.
Notable Quotes
Ethan McCarty
"If you can optimize that set of relations at work for strategic value and for positive experiences for the humans involved, that feels like a lot of good outcomes." — Ethan McCarty [00:07:39 → 00:07:50]
"Employees have much more agency and voice and ability to affect reputation and the ability to affect customer outcomes." — Ethan McCarty [00:10:43 → 00:10:50]
"The way you communicate constitutes the entity." — Ethan McCarty [00:15:06 → 00:15:10]
"Comms is like the nerve center of a company, and I think it is. But now it sounds, from what you're saying, it's more like the circulatory system." — Dan Nestle [00:29:31 → 00:29:39]
"The sophistication of what's available is light years ahead of where we were five years ago." — Ethan McCarty [00:31:18 → 00:31:24]
"Make your friends before you need your friends, my friends." — Ethan McCarty [01:02:28 → 01:02:32]
"If you do not respect my rights and I'm a high performing employee in an environment where there is 4% unemployment, what do you think I'm gonna do? I'll probably get a raise." — Ethan McCarty [01:05:00 → 01:05:10]
Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)
🎙️ Introduction and Background (00:00 - 06:32)
Daniel Nestle introduces Ethan McCarty as a leading voice in communications
Ethan is CEO of Integral, an employee experience agency
Discussion on the influence of mentors and colleagues in professional development
🏢 Integral and Employee Experience (06:32 - 16:51)
Ethan explains Integral's focus on employees as a public
Emphasis on managing relationships with employees intentionally
Discussion on the importance of culture in organizational change
Exploration of Conway's law and constitutive theory of communications
🔄 Organizational Communication Design (16:54 - 29:31)
Analysis of how communication configuration affects company identity and products
Importance of redesigning internal communications teams for better employee experience
Discussion on the need for more robust sensing and listening in organizations
💡 Intelligence and Strategy in Communications (29:32 - 36:39)
Importance of communications teams as sources of business intelligence
Need for upskilling and technology adoption in communication roles
Challenges in transforming communication teams into business intelligence units
👥 Value of Communication Professionals (37:34 - 45:06)
Discussion on the evolving role of communication professionals
Importance of being a strategic advisor and intelligence gatherer
Value of relationship-building and understanding in communication roles
🚀 Future of Communications and Junior Staff (45:27 - 58:54)
Debate on the future need for junior staff in communications
Emphasis on self-enabled, experimental, and entrepreneurial employees
Discussion on the changing skill sets required in the communications industry
🗳️ Political Issues in the Workplace (58:54 - 01:07:12)
Upcoming global elections and their impact on workplace communications
Challenges of managing political discussions in the workplace
Importance of creating guidelines for discussing social issues at work
(Notes co-created by Humans and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)
Complexity and challenges of measuring and understanding employee engagement
Impact of social exclusion in the workplace and fostering a sense of belonging
Implications of absentee leadership on employee communications and internal communications
The relationship between corporate language and financial performance
Concerns about the erosion of language and acceptance of weasel words
Potential impact of AI on the communications profession and political discourse
Notable Quotes
[27:56] - "When our relatedness is threatened, it lights up so many pain centers of the brain; it's an extraordinarily painful phenomenon." -Dr. Laura McHale
[22:28] -"Absentee leadership is reported seven times more than any other destructive leadership behavior; it is absolutely epidemic in our organizations and a big problem.” - Dr. Laura McHale
[45:03] - “It really doesn't matter how perfect a communication is if the leadership behavior doesn't back it up; actions speak louder than words.” - Dr. Laura McHale
[45:30] - “We as communicators can be brilliant at drafting words, but it ultimately needs actions and behaviors backing it up, otherwise it just becomes an exercise in cynicism.” - Dr. Laura McHale
[47:55] - “We can only go so far in helping the leaders to frame what they're going to say, but ultimately it's going to be their behaviors that truly matter.” - Dr. Laura McHale
Timestamped summary for this episode (generated by Capsho, my AI assistant)
00:00:00 - Introduction to the importance of neuroscience in communication Dan introduces the importance of understanding neuroscience in communication and the impact it has on leadership and organizational success.
00:01:15 - Laura's journey from communicator to psychology doctorate Laura shares her career journey from being a communicator to pursuing a doctorate in leadership psychology, driven by her fascination with leadership and human behavior.
00:06:39 - Laura's introduction to neuroscience Laura shares her introduction to neuroscience during her academic journey, where she developed a deep interest in the subject and its application to organizational life and communication.
00:13:14 - Differentiating psychology and neuroscience Laura explains the relationship between psychology and neuroscience, highlighting how neuroscience focuses on the physiological aspect of behavior, providing a deeper understanding of human communication and interactions.
00:15:27 - Impact of Zoom fatigue on communication Laura discusses the impact of Zoom fatigue on communication, highlighting the neuroscientific and psychological effects of excessive screen time and self-reflection during virtual interactions.
00:16:19 - The Impact of Zoom on Self-Image and Sociological Effects Laura discusses how our self-image impacts our focus and how the increase in dentistry and plastic surgery is related to the COVID Zoom epidemic.
00:17:07 - The Physiology of Behavior and Cultural Differences Laura delves into the physiology of behavior and how it leads to anxiety and stress, especially in different cultural contexts and power dynamics.
00:18:23 - Power Distance and Relatedness in Leadership The discussion explores the neuroscience behind deference to leaders and how it varies across cultures, emphasizing the importance of relatedness and its impact on the brain.
00:23:00 - Complexity of Constructs in Work Laura highlights the complexity of constructs in the workplace, such as leader power distance, and the challenges in understanding and measuring them, emphasizing the need to acknowledge this complexity.
00:27:29 - The Pain of Social Exclusion and Impact on Communication The conversation touches on the pain of social exclusion and its impact on workplace dynamics, emphasizing the importance of understanding and addressing relatedness in communication to avoid potential harm and misinterpretation.
00:33:43 - Inclusive and Exclusive "We" Laura discusses the use of inclusive and exclusive "we" in language, how it impacts social exclusion in organizations, and how politicians and leaders deploy them.
00:36:15 - Absentee Leadership Laura delves into absentee leadership, its impact on social exclusion, and the neglectful nature of this behavior in organizations.
00:37:10 - Understanding Absentee Leadership Laura emphasizes the prevalence of absentee leadership in organizations, its impact on employees, and the need for dialogue between leaders and their teams to address this issue.
00:39:01 - Recognizing Absentee Leadership Laura shares personal experiences of absentee leadership, the signs to look out for, and the importance of proactive communication and engagement to address this issue.
00:45:50 - Leadership and Communication Laura highlights the symbiotic relationship between leadership behavior and communication, the significance of words in corporate discourse, and the impact of language on company performance.
00:51:49 - Importance of Authentic Leadership Communication Dr. Laura McHale discusses the importance of aligning a leader's language with their behavior in order to avoid a disconnect. She emphasizes the need for transparent and direct communication without using negative messages padded with positive messaging.
00:53:10 - Impact of Weak Modal Words in Communication Dr. McHale points out how weak modal words and weasel words have influenced the acceptance of ambiguous language in communication. She stresses the importance of clear and direct communication, encouraging communicators to use concrete words and active voice.
00:55:38 - Influence of AI on Communication The conversation shifts to the impact of AI, specifically chat GPT and large language models, on communication. Dr. McHale shares insights on the potential implications and concerns related to using AI to craft messaging, highlighting its ability to generate hate speech and manipulative content.
01:01:10 - Communicators' Superpower in AI Era Dan Nestle expresses optimism about communicators leveraging their expertise in words and language to harness the potential of AI, particularly in prompt engineering. He emphasizes the importance of understanding psychology and neuroscience in working with AI.
01:05:36 - Cynicism and Optimism in AI Application The conversation delves into the dual nature of AI as an enabler and a potential manipulative tool. Dr. McHale discusses the need for vigilance in utilizing AI for communication and its potential impact on social cohesion and pro-social behavior.
[22:28] - “When something doesn't go the way you want it to, simply say to yourself, 'Not yet.'” - Matt Abrahams
[25:46] - “Getting inside your head is such a big one, and I think if people pick up one thing from this, it's to get out of your own way.” - Dan Nestle
Timestamped summary of this episode (thanks to Capsho, my AI assistant)
00:00:00 - Introduction and Personal Experience Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and shares his personal experience of using Matt Abrahams' book to improve his communication skills in a workshop.
00:09:20 - The Six-Step Methodology Matt Abrahams explains the six-step methodology for speaking on the spot, focusing on reducing anxiety and striving for connection over perfection.
00:12:51 - Managing Anxiety Matt Abrahams discusses the two-pronged approach to managing anxiety - managing symptoms and managing sources. He shares techniques for symptomatic relief, such as deep belly breathing and purposeful movement.
00:13:37 - Overcoming Anxiety in Public Speaking Matt Abrahams provides tips for overcoming anxiety in public speaking, including purposeful movement and embracing the adrenaline response. He emphasizes the importance of managing anxiety to improve communication effectiveness.
00:13:55 - Overcoming Anxiety and Nervousness Matt shares techniques to reduce anxiety while speaking, including leaning in, holding something cold, and focusing on audience connection.
00:15:23 - Anxiety Management Plan Dan shares his anxiety management plan called PITS, and discusses the importance of finding mindset hacks to overcome challenges and setbacks.
00:17:55 - Seeing Opportunities Matt discusses reframing situations as opportunities rather than threats, and how this mindset shift can benefit communication and collaboration.
00:19:16 - Importance of Listening Matt emphasizes the importance of active listening to understand the bottom line and respond appropriately, highlighting the impact of deep listening on effective communication and insight.
00:25:31 - Mindset and Next Play Dan and Matt discuss the significance of mindset in communication, particularly the "not yet" and "next play" approaches to adopt an opportunistic mindset and avoid rumination.
00:27:46 - The Importance of Listening Deeply Matt Abrahams discusses the impact of not listening deeply and shares a three-step approach to improve listening skills: pace, space, and grace. He emphasizes the need to slow down, create mental space, and give oneself permission to pay attention to not just the words but also the underlying messages.
00:29:52 - The Art of Unspoken Communication Matt highlights the importance of listening for what's unsaid, referencing a hypothetical scenario where the unspoken message was "I just had a bad time in there." He emphasizes the need to pay attention to non-verbal cues and intuition.
00:33:19 - The Power of Structure in Communication Matt explains the significance of structuring messages in a logical way for better understanding. He introduces the concept of problem-solution-benefit and emphasizes the need for concise communication to deliver a clear message.
00:36:01 - The Impact of Personal Mindset on Communication Matt and the host discuss the mindset and personal tendencies that influence communication, such as the tendency to engage in "clock building" by providing unnecessary details. They also touch upon the impact of deference in communication, especially in hierarchical settings.
00:39:13 - The Value of Frameworks in Communication Matt highlights the benefits of using frameworks in communication, comparing it to having a map that guides the direction of the conversation. He shares a personal experience of using structure to deliver impromptu presentations and emphasizes the relief it brings in
00:41:50 - The Power of Table Topics in Communication Matt Abrahams discusses the benefits of table topics in improving impromptu speaking skills, drawing on his experience in Toastmasters. He emphasizes the value of being able to respond effectively to questions and situations.
00:43:45 - Importance of Knowing Your Audience Dan Nestle and Matt Abrahams highlight the significance of knowing one's audience in communication. They stress the need for communicators and marketers to be audience-centric and focused on the needs of their listeners, whether in a formal presentation or informal conversation.
00:46:02 - Practical Applications for Communicators and Marketers Matt Abrahams discusses the practical applications of communication methodologies for marketers and communicators. He emphasizes the importance of various communication skills, including pitching, small talk, and feedback, in influencing and engaging an audience.
00:48:19 - Structuring a Compelling Pitch Matt Abrahams shares a four-sentence structure for crafting a powerful pitch, using the example of pitching a whiteboard. He explains how the structure incorporates elements such as a hook, relevance, concreteness, and demonstrating the broad impact of the idea or product.
00:53:00 - Impacts of AI on Impromptu Speaking Dan Nestle raises the question of whether AI poses a threat to impromptu speaking skills. Matt Abrahams discusses his agnostic yet optimistic view on the potential impact of AI on communication, highlighting both its benefits and concerns.
00:57:00 - Embracing Humanity Matt encourages embracing human communication over potential future technological implants, urging listeners to prioritize improving their communication skills.
00:57:41 - Repetition, Reflection, and Feedback Matt emphasizes the importance of repetition, reflection, and feedback in improving spontaneous communication, highlighting the need for practice, self-assessment, and guidance from others.
00:58:19 - Free Resources Matt directs listeners to his website for free resources and encourages them to check out his book and podcast for further communication improvement.
00:58:56 - Gratitude and Contact Information Dan expresses gratitude to Matt for joining the show and initiating the next phase, while Matt offers to return and wishes Dan luck. They also provide contact information for further engagement.
00:59:21 - Conclusion and Call to Action Dan concludes the episode, inviting listeners to subscribe, share, leave a review, and reach out with guest ideas or interest in appearing on the show.
You won't find the answers in this episode. But you will find food for thought and a working definition of antisemitism that is a good place to start. Please listen, absorb, and think about how you can fight antisemitism or, at a bare minimum, see it for what it is.
“The moments of our careers that are most impactful are the ones that are coming in the in-between, not the big moment of turning in the resignation and walking out the door.” (4:26), Sara.
“I just had the idea that if I just follow the playbook, that perfect life playbook where you climb the ladder and chase the fancier titles and fatter paychecks, and everything will work out.” – (9:01), Sara.
“I went off to Peru and began reconnecting with the parts of me that weren’t just lost over the last couple of years and even childhood.” – (13:01), Sara.
“The lather, rinse, repeat of our current lifestyle keeps us really stuck.” – (14:40), Sara.
“Valedictorians by in large don’t become leaders.” – (19:44), Dan.
“Sexual harassment is not a style.” – (25:22), Sara.
“I felt like I could not be the only woman who was getting mired in the spin cycle of being burnout, overwhelm, toxic culture.” – (32:20), Sara.
“Designing a fulfilling career is an inside job.” (34:27), Sara.
“The expression listen to your gut is more than just a metaphor.” – (36:35), Dan.
“Our bodies are hardwired for experience of joy and bliss.” – (42:55), Sara.
“We are built to move through all of the things we’re facing in life through our senses.” – (45:19), Sara.
“In a professional world, you’re kind of like a brain, floating around in an apparatus that allows you to execute what you need to do.” – (50:40), Sara.
“We have been taught to ignore the signs that things are not working for us.” – (51:27), Sara.
“Disease is the last attempt to get our attention when we’re doing things that are not good for us.”- (51:27), Sara.
“We have the ability to feel into what we think is good.” – (54:44), Sara.
“It’s also important to meditate.” (1:01:08), Sara.
“When consequences are larger and bigger and weighs on you, you really need to tune in and listen.” – (1:07:00), Dan.
“Sometimes your employer is unable to give you what you need to grow.” – (1:10:00), Dan.
The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments
00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset
00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience
00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues,
00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian,
00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap,
00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection,
00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth,
00:30:49 - The Journey Begins,
00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories,
00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career,
00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path,
00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology,
00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions,
00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information,
00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs,
00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action,
00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions,
01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships,
01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job,
01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions,
01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work,
01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths,
01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism,
01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture,
01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World,
01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women,
01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself
Timestamped summary of this episode (also presented as generated by Capsho):
00:00:00 - Introduction to the Dan Nestle Show Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and his guest, Sarah McElroy, who is a high-performing chief marketing officer turned CEO and career transition expert. They discuss the importance of managing one's career and the power of the in-between moments in career transitions.
00:02:01 - Sarah's Career Journey and the Importance of the In-Between Moments Sarah McElroy shares her personal career journey, including a difficult divorce, job loss, and health issues. She emphasizes the significance of the in-between moments in one's career and how they can shape the direction and decisions for the future.
00:07:52 - Sarah's First Resignation and the Need for a Reset Sarah talks about her first resignation and how it came after experiencing physical and mental health issues due to overworking. She decided to take a pause and went on a wellness retreat in Peru to reconnect with herself. This reset led her to make significant changes in her career and personal life.
00:12:47 - The Great Resignation and Finding Resilience Sarah discusses the concept of the Great Resignation and how it has impacted many people's career decisions. She emphasizes the importance of finding resilience during challenging times and shares her own experience of quitting her job after being diagnosed with shingles. This decision allowed her to prioritize her well-being and seek a more fulfilling career path.
00:15:20 - The Impact of Divorce and Mental Health Issues, Sara discusses how her divorce, mental health issues, and childhood trauma affected her. She shares her hospitalization and estrangement from her family, leading to feelings of worthlessness and a need to prove her value.
00:18:07 - The Pressure of Being a Valedictorian, Sara and Dan discuss how being valedictorian can create pressure and expectations. They explore the idea that valedictorians often become followers rather than leaders, as they excel at working within a structured system.
00:22:51 - The Lack of a Life Roadmap, Sara and Dan reflect on how the traditional notion of a life roadmap no longer applies in today's ever-changing world. They discuss the challenges faced by recent generations in navigating their careers and finding their paths.
00:25:26 - Resignation and Self-Reflection, Sara shares her experience of resigning from her second job due to sexual harassment and feeling undervalued. She discusses how these experiences pushed her to leave corporate life and become an entrepreneur. She also recognizes her own role in choosing these environments and the need for self-reflection and healing.
00:28:45 - The Journey of Personal Growth, Sara and Dan emphasize the value of personal growth and therapy in understanding oneself and making better choices. They discuss the importance of embracing the past and learning from experiences to shape a fulfilling career and life.
00:30:49 - The Journey Begins, Sara reflects on her decision to leave a terrible job and the inspiration it sparked to help other women facing burnout and toxic cultures. She starts a journalism project called Raised to Rise to capture the stories and wisdom of women experiencing the great resignation.
00:33:27 - The Power of Women's Stories, Sara realizes the universality of women's experiences during the great resignation and decides to turn Raised to Rise into a book. She wants to share the raw, messy, and inspiring stories of women to create a playbook for designing a fulfilling career.
00:35:17 - Designing a Fulfilling Career, Sara believes that designing a fulfilling career is an inside job. Rather than solely relying on external factors like job title and salary, she emphasizes the importance of self-discovery, intuition, and listening to our physiology to find greater fulfillment in our work.
00:39:37 - The Unforeseen Path, Sara shares how her book took an unexpected turn, allowing her to incorporate more of the ups and downs and unexpected twists of her own journey. She believes that embracing the unexpected and staying true to oneself is essential when navigating career transitions.
00:43:35 - The Role of Physiology, Sara explores the role of physiology in decision-making and career choices. She discusses the body's response to emotions and the importance of listening to our gut and heart, which are often overlooked in favor of the rational brain. Our bodies have evolved to seek joy and fulfillment, making
00:47:29 - The Importance of Sensory Reactions, Sarah discusses how sensory reactions play a role in our conversations and decision-making. She mentions that although we may not have all of our senses when communicating virtually, we can still pick up on cues and signals through what we hear and see.
00:49:10 - The Impact of Lack of Sensory Information, Sarah acknowledges that the lack of sensory information in virtual communication may affect our ability to recognize when it's time to make a change. She emphasizes the importance of paying attention to our emotions, body, and intuition to determine if something is not working for us.
00:50:59 - Ignoring Emotional and Physical Signs, Sarah points out that we have been trained to leave our emotions and bodies at the door in the professional world. She believes that ignoring these signs can lead to disease and that we should listen to our emotions, body, and intuition for cues about what is and isn't working for us.
00:53:30 - Recognizing Signals and Taking Action, Sarah shares her personal experiences of feeling a "scary buzz" and a mixture of anxiety and excitement when she knows she needs to take action. She encourages listeners to pay attention to their own body's signals and use them as a guide for making decisions.
00:58:15 - Using Visualization and Body Reactions, Sarah suggests a practice of visualizing oneself in different situations and paying attention to the body's reactions. By connecting visualization to our bodies, we can determine what
01:02:51 - The Impact of a Job on Relationships, Sara reflects on how her job affected her relationships in Australia and acknowledges that some of those relationships may not have been good for her in the first place.
01:03:30 - Measuring Readiness to Leave a Job, Sara discusses her quit readiness quiz, which helps individuals assess their readiness to leave a job. Factors such as stability in other aspects of life, length of dissatisfaction, comfort with uncertainty, and financial stability are considered.
01:04:58 - Balancing Rationality and Emotion in Career Decisions, Sara emphasizes the importance of not acting blindly on emotions when making career decisions. She suggests considering both rational and emotional factors, and taking a balanced approach that includes planning and thoughtful decision-making.
01:06:07 - Expanding and Growing Outside of Work, Dan and Sara discuss the importance of personal growth and expansion, both within and outside of work. They highlight the need to listen to the signals of growth, such as feeling stuck or the desire to stretch and evolve, and finding opportunities to fulfill that growth.
01:10:30 - The Individualized Nature of Career Paths, Sara emphasizes that there is no one-size-fits-all playbook for career decisions. Each person's journey is unique, and it's important to explore different paths and opportunities for growth, even if they may not directly align with one's current career. The focus is on individualized fulfillment and finding joy and meaning in various aspects of life.
01:18:36 - The Impact of Self-Objectification and Internalized Capitalism, The guest discusses the harmful effects of self-objectification and internalized capitalism on individuals. She emphasizes how these societal pressures lead people to believe that their worth is tied to productivity and achieving success in their careers.
01:19:06 - The Historical Origins of Work Culture, The conversation delves into the historical roots of work culture, tracing it back to the Industrial Revolution when humans were seen as resources to be valued based on their economic output. This mindset still persists and influences how we view work and ourselves today.
01:20:25 - Challenges for Women in the Business World, The guest acknowledges that women face additional challenges in the business world, such as being judged based on their marital status and motherhood. Despite progress, biases and stereotypes still persist, making it important to address these issues for future generations.
01:21:23 - Overcoming Biases and Empowering Women, The guest expresses her desire to empower her daughters and future generations of women by challenging societal biases and stereotypes. She metaphorically refers to carrying a "flamethrower" to burn down these biases and create a more equal and equitable society.
01:23:12 - Keeping an Open Mind and Trusting Yourself, The guest encourages listeners to approach unconventional ideas with an open mind, acknowledging that scientific advancements have often debunked previously perceived "mystical" beliefs. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, self-discovery
*Notes were created by humans, with help fromCapsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.
“I choose to believe that things happen for a reason because if only because then I’m more aware of when things happen and who I’m meeting with.” – (17:44), Michael
“Let’s make sure that we’re doing our best to have continuity between the internal experience and the external messaging.” - (37:08), Michael
“Because of tech, you don’t have an internal announcement and an external announcement, you have an announcement.” – (40:40), Michael
“Your work is made better by cultivating and integrating your peripheral interests.” – (1:00:07), Michael
“AI doesn’t care about the truth.” – (1:09:00), Michael
The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:
00:00:00 - Introduction, 00:00:19 - The Power of Purpose, 00:04:14 - Michael's Journey, 00:08:30 - Working with Purpose, 00:15:12 - The Heartbreaking Reality in Sub-Saharan Africa, 00:16:50 - Embracing Serendipity and Openness, 00:19:42 - The Power of Storytelling in Communications and Marketing, 00:21:08 - The Superpower of Connecting Dots and Cultivating Empathy, 00:26:15 - Engagement Lab: Facilitating Connection and Empathy, 00:31:22 - Overview of Communication Scope, 00:32:47 - Communication Challenges in the Energy Transition, 00:33:27 - Identifying Needs in the Energy Transition Space, 00:35:05 - Importance of Founding Values and Employee Engagement, 00:36:23 - Internal Communications and External Messaging, 00:47:31 - Dealing with Impatience and Inspiration, 00:48:24 - The Ambivalence of Gen X, 00:49:39 - Embracing a Balanced Approach, 00:51:51 - The Long-Term Nature of the Energy Transition, 00:54:02 - Acknowledging the Benefits of Power, 01:02:54 - Introduction to Barrett Road and its Agile Approach, 01:03:25 - The Impact of AI on Writing and Creativity, 01:05:34 - AI's Potential to Replace Writers and Artists, 01:09:15 - AI's Lack of Commitment to Truth and Connection, 01:13:30 - Embracing AI as a Tool and Making Writing More Efficient, 01:17:13 - The Power of Technology in Graphic Design and Artistry, 01:18:37 - Unleashing Creativity with AI, 01:19:44 - Experience and Career Advantages in the Age of AI, 01:20:31 - Connecting with Michael Morris and Engagement Lab, 01:21:29 - Gratitude and Encouragement
Timestamped summary of this episode (also presented as generated by Capsho):
00:00:00 - Introduction, Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Michael Morris, a strategic communications professional with a passion for purpose-driven work.
00:00:19 - The Power of Purpose, Dan and Michael discuss how purpose can transform a career and bring fulfillment. They emphasize the importance of recognizing pivotal moments and connecting with instrumental people along the way.
00:04:14 - Michael's Journey, Michael shares his journey from working in Ghana to traveling across Africa with World Vision. He highlights the impact of experiencing adversity and how it shaped his commitment to work with purpose.
00:08:30 - Working with Purpose, Michael and Dan discuss the significance of purpose finding you rather than the other way around. They emphasize the importance of human-to-human connections and being open to opportunities for making a positive impact.
00:15:12 - The Heartbreaking Reality in Sub-Saharan Africa, The guest discusses the heartbreaking stories of children dying from diarrhea in sub-Saharan Africa. He emphasizes the importance of addressing this issue and highlights the work done by World Vision. He also encourages listeners to support organizations like World Vision.
00:16:50 - Embracing Serendipity and Openness, The conversation shifts to the concept of serendipity and the importance of being open to unexpected opportunities. The guest shares his belief that things happen for a reason and encourages listeners to recognize pivotal moments in their lives. This mindset is crucial for success in the creative field and helps in building connections and empathy with others.
00:19:42 - The Power of Storytelling in Communications and Marketing, The guest explains how storytelling plays a vital role in communications and marketing. The goal is to persuade, convince, or change minds by using the power of story and imagery. Being open to connections and embracing serendipity is essential in effectively reaching and engaging with different audiences.
00:21:08 - The Superpower of Connecting Dots and Cultivating Empathy, The guest discusses the superpower of connecting dots that others may not see. This ability to find connections is essential in the creative field and contributes to success. It is driven by empathy, which requires mental energy and the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes.
00:26:15 - Engagement Lab: Facilitating Connection and Empathy, The guest introduces Engagement Lab and
00:31:22 - Overview of Communication Scope, The guest explains that their communication services are broad but limited to engagements that include upfront research. Their specialization is in the energy transition sector.
00:32:47 - Communication Challenges in the Energy Transition, The guest highlights the communication challenges faced by energy transition companies, such as assuming everyone believes in their mission without considering the need for effective communication and understanding of alternative solutions within the renewables industry.
00:33:27 - Identifying Needs in the Energy Transition Space, The guest emphasizes the tremendous need for effective communication within the energy transition sector, especially for rapidly scaling companies. They discuss the strain on culture, values, and internal communications as businesses grow.
00:35:05 - Importance of Founding Values and Employee Engagement, The conversation explores the significance of founding values and employee engagement in growing firms. Companies need to ensure continuity and alignment between internal culture and external messaging to maintain employee satisfaction and trust.
00:36:23 - Internal Communications and External Messaging, The guest discusses the importance of internal communications and how they influence external messaging. They stress the need for consistency and alignment between the internal experience and the external image portrayed to stakeholders.
00:47:31 - Dealing with Impatience and Inspiration, The conversation explores the dilemma of balancing impatience and inspiration in the face of climate change. It discusses the need for companies, leaders, communicators, and marketers to be inspirational while counteracting people's impatience about the state of the world.
00:48:24 - The Ambivalence of Gen X, The hosts discuss their generation's ambivalence towards various issues but acknowledge the importance of passionate individuals working in renewable and climate change-related industries. They emphasize the need for these individuals to see the bigger picture and the importance of focusing on specific areas and products to effect change.
00:49:39 - Embracing a Balanced Approach, The conversation emphasizes the importance of living with urgency and passion, while also maintaining a pragmatic view of the technology and practicalities involved in the energy transition. They highlight the need to blend the inspiration of environmentalists with the knowledge and understanding of technology experts.
00:51:51 - The Long-Term Nature of the Energy Transition, The hosts discuss the reality that the energy transition is a long-term process rather than an overnight fix. They acknowledge the need for political action to accelerate the transition but emphasize that it requires time, investment, and a willingness to explore and embrace multiple solutions.
00:54:02 - Acknowledging the Benefits of Power, The conversation acknowledges the historical benefits of power and energy in improving people's lives, despite the negative environmental impacts. They highlight the need for a cleaner and
01:02:54 - Introduction to Barrett Road and its Agile Approach, Michael Morris discusses Barrett Road, a family business known for its tight-knit group and agile approach in client engagements.
01:03:25 - The Impact of AI on Writing and Creativity, Michael shares his thoughts on how AI technology, such as Chat GPT, is impacting the writing process. He believes that while AI can enhance writing, the journey of exploration and creativity is what truly makes writing powerful.
01:05:34 - AI's Potential to Replace Writers and Artists, The question of whether AI will replace writers and artists is explored, with different opinions ranging from full replacement to AI being a tool for augmentation. Michael leans towards the idea of humans staying in control of the writing process for a more meaningful connection with the audience.
01:09:15 - AI's Lack of Commitment to Truth and Connection, Michael highlights the importance of truth and empathy in writing and how AI lacks the commitment to these aspects. He emphasizes the human-to-human connection and engagement that good writing brings.
01:13:30 - Embracing AI as a Tool and Making Writing More Efficient, While acknowledging the benefits of AI in enhancing writing skills and accessibility, Michael suggests finding a balance between using AI as a tool and maintaining the journey of research and personal growth that comes with writing. He encourages writers to embrace AI while still staying in control of the process.
01:17:13 - The Power of Technology in Graphic Design and Artistry, The guest expresses his surprise at the quality of work produced by AI tools like Mid Journey and Dolly, despite not having a background in graphic design. He highlights the potential for these technologies in the energy transition and cautions about the need for fact-checking.
01:18:37 - Unleashing Creativity with AI, The guest shares an example of how Chat GPT was used to discuss the carbon credit controversy in Shakespearean style, showcasing the creative possibilities of AI. He emphasizes the importance of humans in competing with AI and hopes that these technologies won't displace people in the value chain.
01:19:44 - Experience and Career Advantages in the Age of AI, The guest acknowledges that his and the host's experience and position in their careers protect them from being displaced by AI. He encourages others to find ways to compete with AI and expresses hope for the future.
01:20:31 - Connecting with Michael Morris and Engagement Lab, The host provides information on how listeners can connect with Michael Morris on LinkedIn and mentions the upcoming launch of the Engagement Lab website. He encourages readers to explore the work of Engagement Lab in the energy transition.
01:21:29 - Gratitude and Encouragement, The guest expresses his gratitude for the conversation and praises the host for incorporating different elements of his life into the podcast. The host reciprocates the appreciation and encourages listeners to subscribe and leave reviews.
*Notes were created by humans, with help fromCapsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.
“Personal brands help companies become more than a product or solution.” – (27:16), Aaron.
“People do not trust companies the way they used to.” (28:30), Aaron.
“Customers are looking for integrity that somebody is going to be consistent and reliable to their values, purpose, and vision.” – (32:03), Aaron.
“You’ve got to go through the process of understanding who you are and what your role and relevance is in the market.” – (33:17), Aaron.
“Different people will have different perspectives based on how they’re traversing different challenges at their company.” – (42:44), Aaron.
On AI. “How do I know this is a real person behind it, how do I know the information isn’t false.” – (44:45), Aaron.
“People are seeking human beings and they ‘re looking for solutions through trusted sources.” (45:38), Aaron.
“Relationships are built on trust and trusted relationships drive referrals.” – (54:31), Aaron.
The key moments in this episode (as generated by my AI buddy, Capsho) are:
00:00:00 - Introduction, 00:02:10 - The Value of Deep Conversations, 00:06:17 - The Emotional Side of B2B Marketing, 00:09:00 - The Journey to Becoming a Marketer, 00:12:32 - Being a Servant Leader in Marketing, 00:17:19 - The Power of Community in Building Brands, 00:18:28 - The Importance of Being Human and Building Trust, 00:20:30 - Personal Branding for All, not Just Entrepreneurs, 00:21:59 - The Success of Personal Branding, 00:28:30 - Building Personal Brands to Go Beyond Products, 00:35:01 - The Importance of Brand Identity, 00:36:07 - The Danger of Losing Focus, 00:38:01 - Trust and Connection in Marketing, 00:40:03 - The Challenge of Writing Frequency, 00:41:48 - Trust and Connection as Megatrends, 00:51:54 - Importance of In-Person Communication, 00:52:47 - Pros and Cons of Different Communication Methods, 00:54:07 - Hotels as Meeting Spaces, 00:55:39 - Trust in Different Communication Channels, 01:02:05 - The Role of AI in Trust, 01:07:40 - The Value and Challenges of Having an Intern, 01:08:03 - Teaching Once and Letting Interns Progress, 01:08:29 - The Benefits of Having Highly Skilled Unpaid Workers, 01:09:02 - Using Freedom to Innovate, 01:09:41 - AI's Origin in Humanity and the Need for Improvement
Timestamped summary of this episode, also presented as generated by Capsho:
00:00:00 - Introduction,
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast and his guest, Aaron Hassen, who is a marketer and a contributing member of the Rise community. They discuss the importance of community and what makes a good community.
00:02:10 - The Value of Deep Conversations,
Dan and Aaron discuss the importance of deep conversations and the value they bring in contrast to short attention spans. They both appreciate the opportunity for meaningful discussions and learning in the podcast format.
00:06:17 - The Emotional Side of B2B Marketing,
Aaron shares his experience transitioning from the military to the corporate world and how it shaped his perspective on marketing. He emphasizes the emotional aspect of B2B marketing and the importance of trust, connection, and empathy in building relationships with customers.
00:09:00 - The Journey to Becoming a Marketer,
Aaron talks about his path from the military to starting his own business and eventually finding his passion for marketing. He highlights the lessons he learned from sales, such as the importance of listening deeply and understanding the emotional drivers behind purchasing decisions.
00:12:32 - Being a Servant Leader in Marketing,
Dan and Aaron discuss the qualities of a good marketer who approaches their role as a servant leader. They emphasize the importance of embodying the brand, leading with a clear vision, inspiring change, and prioritizing the needs of the customer over self-interest.
00:17:19 - The Power of Community in Building Brands,
Brands that facilitate communities are effective in connecting with customers and building trust. Live events and personal recommendations from trusted individuals are successful because people want to belong and connect.
00:18:28 - The Importance of Being Human and Building Trust,
In an environment where trust is lacking, it is important for brands to be more human, empathetic, and authentic. Personal branding allows marketing to connect with customers in a more personal way and build trust.
00:20:30 - Personal Branding for All, not Just Entrepreneurs,
Personal branding should not be limited to solopreneurs and entrepreneurs. Every executive and leader can benefit from developing their personal brand to survive in a changing industry and connect with customers.
00:21:59 - The Success of Personal Branding,
Personal branding works when it is based on authenticity, trust, and connecting with the customer's core issues. Building a personal brand that resonates with people can lead to business success.
00:28:30 - Building Personal Brands to Go Beyond Products,
Personal brands help companies become more than just a product or a logo. By connecting with people, sharing experiences, and developing emotions, brands can build trust and create a loyal customer base.
00:35:01 - The Importance of Brand Identity,
The conversation begins with a discussion about the significance of brand identity and how wrong positioning or a loss of values can lead to the downfall of a brand. The analogy is made that brands are like people and can also experience a loss of direction or values.
00:36:07 - The Danger of Losing Focus,
The conversation continues by highlighting the tendency for success to cause complacency and a loss of hunger, leading to a decline in quality. This phenomenon is compared to rock bands that lose their audience after deviating from their original sound and style.
00:38:01 - Trust and Connection in Marketing,
The conversation shifts to the importance of trust and connection in marketing. The guest emphasizes the need to build trust and establish genuine connections with customers rather than resorting to aggressive advertising or deception. The concept of personal branding and regular content creation is also discussed.
00:40:03 - The Challenge of Writing Frequency,
The host shares his struggle with writing frequency and the guest explains the benefits of regular content creation for developing thoughts and personal brand. The guest emphasizes the importance of learning from marketing experts and staying relevant in the industry.
00:41:48 - Trust and Connection as Megatrends,
The guest identifies trust and connection as megatrends in the B2B market. Nonlinear buyer journeys, dark social, and event-led marketing are all driven by the need for trust and connection. The guest highlights the impact of recent global events on the desire for interpersonal
00:51:54 - Importance of In-Person Communication,
In-person communication allows for both verbal and nonverbal cues, which are crucial for effective connection and understanding. Sangrim and GTM Partners are hosting road shows to facilitate face-to-face interactions and build relationships.
00:52:47 - Pros and Cons of Different Communication Methods,
Different communication methods have their own advantages and disadvantages. While in-person interaction is unparalleled, verbal conversations over the phone can be more focused. Each type of communication serves a purpose and has its place.
00:54:07 - Hotels as Meeting Spaces,
With the shift to remote work, companies have closed their offices, leading to a need for temporary meeting spaces. Hotels are investing in meeting spaces to accommodate these needs and capitalize on the demand for in-person collaboration and events.
00:55:39 - Trust in Different Communication Channels,
Content marketing has emerged as a highly trusted channel, surprising many. Live events can also be considered a form of content marketing, especially when combined with lead generation mechanisms. Trust is crucial in building relationships and driving referrals.
01:02:05 - The Role of AI in Trust,
AI has the potential to automate tasks and improve efficiency. However, human connection and personal branding remain essential. People want to connect with creators on a personal level, share experiences, and feel a sense of empathy, which AI cannot replicate. Differentiating through humanity is key.
01:07:40 - The Value and Challenges of Having an Intern,
Interns are a double-edged sword. While they help with grunt work, they also require teaching and supervision. This extra work is worth it because it allows you to educate and start someone off on their career.
01:08:03 - Teaching Once and Letting Interns Progress,
The goal is to teach an intern once and then let them move forward and improve on their own. This allows you to focus on what the intern can do next and frees you up to do other work.
01:08:29 - The Benefits of Having Highly Skilled Unpaid Workers,
Having an intern who continually improves and becomes highly skilled can be valuable, even if they are unpaid. This allows you to delegate tasks and frees up your time for more important work.
01:09:02 - Using Freedom to Innovate,
The freedom that comes from having an intern can allow you to innovate and find new ways to improve your work. It's important to take advantage of this freedom and constantly look for new opportunities.
01:09:41 - AI's Origin in Humanity and the Need for Improvement,
The intelligence of AI originates from humans, so it's important to address issues of bias, racism, and how we treat each other. We have the opportunity to improve and use AI to our advantage, but it starts with improving ourselves and our values.
*Notes were created by humans, with help fromCapsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.
“Coaching isn’t what we do; it’s who we are.” – (5:46), Ken
“Make your office a magnet, not a mandate.” – (16:00), Ken
“It (remote working for PR) can be done. Can it be done better working together? Probably” – (18:58), Ken
“Is the team really a team if they’re not together?” – (22:24), Dan
“Every time you say it’s hard for me or I’m not good at, add the word … now.” – (30:30), Ken
“You don’t have to be a neuroscientist to use the neuroscience.” – (31:40), Ken
“When we say I wonder how that would feel, we actually start to feel it.” – (34:21), Ken
“We don’t realize it but many people who work for us, our followers, have a vision.” – (36:20), Ken
“It feels like the need for certain leadership attributes are on steroids.” – (41:05), Ken
“You’ve got to act in a trustworthy manner no matter the consequences.” – (42:23), Ken
“When you look at your past be very mindful to not judge yourself too harshly.” – (46:40), Ken
“It’s really important that you’re nurturing and not micromanaging.” (51:31), Ken
“One thing AI cannot do is mimic or replace emotional intelligence and empathy and trust.” – (1:01:13), Dan
“This notion of lifetime learning is absolutely critical.” – (1:04:55), Ken
About Ken Jacobs
Ken Jacobs is the principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, leveraging his expertise for over a decade to bolster agency growth, client relations, and staff performance. A recognized coach and consultant, Ken holds PCC credentials from the International Coach Federation and additional accreditations from iPEC, including CPC, ELI Master Practitioner, and CLDS. His rich experience encompasses collaborations with top-tier communications agencies such as Catalyst, Coyne Public Relations, and M Booth, to name a few. Before founding his firm, Jacobs dedicated 25 years to leadership roles in renowned PR agencies, notably spearheading the award-winning "MMC Masters" training program at Marina Maher Communications. Beyond his consulting, Ken shares insights in his "Taking The Lead" column for PRSA's Strategies and Tactics. An alumnus of Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School, he's also an honored member of PRSA, and a Senior Counselor to Prosper Group.
00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office,
00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination,
00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate,
00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate,
00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration,
00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment,
00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent,
00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective,
00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles,
00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection,
00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership,
00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment,
00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines,
00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration,
01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset,
01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant,
01:07:29 - Learning About AI,
01:08:12 - The Future of AI,
01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life,
01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice,
01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment
Timestamped summary of this episode, courtesy ofCapsho:
00:00:00 - Introduction,
Dan Nestle introduces the podcast episode and welcomes back Ken Jacobs, a former PR agency executive and leadership expert. They discuss the importance of pivotal moments and the role of people in those moments.
00:01:48 - Connecting with Natural Connectors,
Ken Jacobs talks about the desire to connect more with people who are natural connectors and how it transcends age. He emphasizes the importance of helping one another and how the lockdown during the pandemic accelerated the need for connection.
00:06:07 - Coaching During the Pandemic,
Ken Jacobs shares his experience as a coach during the pandemic and how he continued coaching even when clients couldn't pay. He highlights the importance of purpose-driven work and how emotional intelligence and empathy helped people thrive during challenging times.
00:10:12 - Accelerated Change and Returning to the Office,
The conversation shifts to the accelerated change brought on by the pandemic and the impact on work culture. They discuss the mixed approach of remote and in-office work and the need to reevaluate the purpose of going to the office. Ken emphasizes the importance of using in-person time effectively.
00:13:32 - In-Person Energy and Coordination,
Ken and Dan discuss the energy that comes from in-person interactions and the need to find a balance between remote and in-office work. They highlight the importance of coordinating in-person time to brainstorm and collaborate effectively.
00:15:56 - The Importance of Making the Office a Magnet, not a Mandate,
Ken Jacobs emphasizes the need for companies to give employees a reason to come back to the office beyond just basic perks like Taco Tuesday. Making the office a place for collaboration and idea generation is crucial, but it must be done in a way that respects individual preferences and safety concerns.
00:16:42 - Challenges of Remote Work and Real Estate,
Many companies had to downsize their office spaces during the pandemic due to financial constraints. However, finding the right balance of remote work and in-person collaboration remains a challenge. Different industries and organizations have unique needs and must determine what approach works best for them.
00:18:30 - The Value of In-Person Collaboration,
In agencies, where brainstorming and collaboration are vital, being physically present can enhance creativity and energy. While virtual collaboration is possible, the magic often happens when diverse teams come together in person. However, organizations must be mindful of including remote team members to ensure everyone feels connected.
00:19:51 - Leadership in a Remote Work Environment,
Great leaders must be empathetic, good listeners, and understand that it is impossible to please everyone. Balancing the needs and preferences of team members who want to work remotely or in the office requires careful consideration. Dialing up empathy and seeking feedback from employees are essential for effective leadership.
00:25:34 - Expectations Gap and Hiring Talent,
The expectations gap between agencies and employees spread across different locations has grown
00:33:02 - The Relief of a Fresh Perspective,
The conversation explores the feeling of relief and a breath of fresh air that comes with challenging preconceived notions and adopting a learner's mindset in leadership. It emphasizes the importance of self-growth and highlights the motivation that comes from imagining how achieving new perspectives and growth would feel.
00:34:16 - Customizing Leadership Styles,
The discussion delves into the significance of customizing leadership styles for each team member. It emphasizes the importance of understanding their values, vision, and learning styles to create alignment and motivation within the team. Taking the time to think about individual team members before interactions can greatly impact their engagement and fulfillment.
00:36:11 - Building Trust and Connection,
The conversation emphasizes the need for leaders to build trust and connection with their team members. This involves understanding their values, vision, and role in achieving the group's goals. By creating alignment between the organization's values, the leader's values, and the individual team members' values, leaders can foster a sense of belonging and fulfillment in their team.
00:42:58 - The Challenges of Virtual Leadership,
The discussion explores the challenges of building relationships and trust in a virtual work environment. It highlights the need for leaders to demonstrate courage, bravery, and trustworthiness, as well as to act as a source of stability and certainty during uncertain times. The importance of leading with empathy, emotional intelligence, and trust is emphasized, particularly in an unpredictable world.
00:50:40 - The Importance of Nurturing Relationships in a Remote Work Environment,
In a remote work environment, leaders need to be proactive in nurturing relationships to prevent complacency and maintain strong bonds within the team. Building trust and rapport is crucial, and leaders should focus on nurturing rather than micromanaging their employees.
00:53:19 - Setting Clear Expectations and Deadlines,
Leaders should have open and honest conversations with their team members about assignments, deadlines, and expectations. It is important to establish a contract where both parties agree on what success looks like and communicate any challenges or struggles early on.
00:56:25 - Embracing AI and the Importance of Integration,
AI is becoming increasingly important in the PR industry, and leaders should embrace it as a tool to enhance their work rather than fear it. Integration is also crucial, as PR professionals should explore how different channels and platforms can work together to maximize impact.
01:00:50 - Approaching AI with a Growth Mindset,
Instead of approaching AI with fear, leaders should have a growth mindset and view it as an opportunity to learn and improve their practice. AI can automate certain tasks, allowing professionals to focus on higher-value work and think of new ways to contribute.
01:04:51 - The Importance of Lifetime Learning and Staying Relevant,
Staying relevant in any field requires a commitment to lifetime learning. Professionals should continuously seek to expand their knowledge and skills to adapt to changing technologies and industry trends. Relevance is key to
01:07:29 - Learning About AI,
The guest expresses fascination with AI and how it can lead to deep exploration and questioning of what is true. They also express nervousness about being asked about their use of AI in their coaching practice in the future.
01:08:12 - The Future of AI,
The guest speculates about the possibility of speaking with an AI-generated simulacrum of the host in the future. They express their love for having conversations like these and the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset.
01:08:59 - Pivotal Person in Life,
The host expresses gratitude for the guest being a pivotal person in their life and discusses the importance of maintaining a learner's mindset as they move forward. They provide information on how to find the guest on LinkedIn and their website.
01:10:49 - LinkedIn as the Platform of Choice,
The guest discusses their decreased activity on Twitter and their preference for LinkedIn as a platform for professionals to connect. They also mention the annoyance of receiving LinkedIn messages from non-certified coaches.
01:14:35 - LinkedIn Fails and Harassment,
The host and guest discuss the humor in sharing LinkedIn fails and their experiences with fake profiles and spam messages. They acknowledge the entertainment value but also express frustration with the harassment.
*Notes were created by humans, with help from Capsho, my preferred AI show notes assistant.
