Explore every episode of the podcast The Serving Second Podcast

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	Title	Pub. Date	Duration
	Surrounded! - What do I do now? E-38	30 Jul 2026	00:29:09
What Do I Do Now? You went to bed thinking everything was fine. You woke up surrounded. In this solo episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams walks through 2 Kings 6, the story of Elisha's unnamed servant, to answer the question every second-chair leader eventually asks out loud: what am I supposed to do now? This week Toussaint steps away from the interview chair for a solo teaching episode built around one of the most overlooked figures in scripture, the unnamed servant who serves the prophet Elisha. When a Syrian army surrounds the city hunting for Elisha, the servant is the first one to see it and the first one to panic. Toussaint uses that moment to unpack what it feels like to carry pressure you did not create, a reality every second-chair leader knows well. He also opens up about a difficult season his own family has walked through over the past few months, and the leadership lessons he is still working through in real time. The episode closes with a practical three-step framework for leading through a crisis without losing your footing. In This Episode Why the story of an unnamed servant in 2 Kings 6 says more to second-chair leaders than the story of the prophet does What it means to carry pressure you did not create and did not ask for A personal update on a season of family challenge Toussaint and his wife have been navigating The difference between fear knocking on the door and fear getting a seat at the decision-making table Why Elisha's first prayer was not for the problem to disappear, but for eyes to see clearly A three-step framework for leading through a crisis: see clearly, seek perspective, move without panic Timestamps 0:00 - The moment everything changes overnight 1:49 - The story behind the story: 2 Kings 6 and the unnamed servant 3:32 - The international crisis: the king of Syria hunts down Elisha 6:37 - The servant wakes up surrounded 9:47 - The most honest question in scripture: "What are we going to do?" 10:23 - Toussaint's personal story: a season of major family challenges 14:18 - What Elisha does not do, and why it matters 16:36 - Fear counts what is against you. Faith remembers who is for you. 19:04 - Elisha's prayer: "Open his eyes that he may see" 21:03 - The mountain was already full of horses and chariots of fire 22:16 - Calm is contagious. So is panic. 24:13 - The ending nobody expects: grace over violence 26:22 - Three steps for when you feel surrounded 28:37 - Closing encouragement The Framework: When You Feel Surrounded See clearly. Don't exaggerate the problem. Don't minimize it either. Call it what it is. Seek perspective. Pause and pray. Invite wise counsel. Ask yourself what you might not be seeing right now. Move without panic. Not without caution, not without prayer, but without panic. Take the next faithful step, then trust God with the one after that. Connect with Dr. Toussaint Williams Serving Second Podcast, helping leaders maximize the gifts in their hands and master the seat they currently occupy. Website: servingsecond.com If this episode met you where you are, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a second-chair leader who needs to hear it this week.
	He Left Work at 5 PM Every Day for 34 Years and Still Got Promoted - E37	24 Jul 2026	00:17:39
Your boss walks the floor at 5:15 checking who's still at their desk. Kevin Wayne Johnson made sure his chair was already empty, every single day, for over three decades in federal government leadership. He still made director. Here's how leading from the second chair taught him that presence at home builds the same trust presence at work does. Episode Summary Kevin Wayne Johnson spent 34 years in federal acquisition and contract management, rising to a director-level role overseeing teams in New York, Los Angeles, and London. He is also the author or co-author of 24 books on faith, leadership, and the writing craft, and he leads the Johnson Leadership Group today. In this episode, Kevin traces his leadership foundation back to fatherhood, specifically to a father who served in Vietnam and stayed connected through recorded voice tapes mailed home. That model of presence became the standard Kevin held himself to with his own two hour daily commute and his own kids. He explains the choice he made to leave work at 5 PM without exception, why his leadership earned him the room to do it, and how that same discipline shaped his writing career. This conversation is for the leader who feels like showing up for family and showing up for the mission are in competition. Kevin's story is proof they are not. What You'll Learn Why presence, not perfection, is the trait that shapes the next generation of leaders How to set a hard boundary at work without losing your boss's trust or your next promotion What earns you the credibility to protect your personal life when everyone else is staying late How to build a writing or coaching practice around your life instead of sacrificing your life for it The mindset shift from doing impressive work to making a positive impact on the people around you Timestamps 00:00 Welcome to Kevin Wayne Johnson 00:21 The one thing that shaped his leadership: fatherhood 01:07 What his own father modeled growing up 03:12 Voice tapes from Vietnam and why presence matters to a child 04:23 The difference in proximity: his commute versus his father's absence 06:31 Telling his bosses that family comes first 08:08 Earning the trust to leave at 5 PM every day 09:47 What his director-level role actually involved 11:41 From federal career to 24 published books 14:44 Why he never pigeonholes his writing schedule 15:13 Making a positive impact without needing the spotlight 16:34 Where to find Kevin and the Johnson Leadership Group Connect with Kevin Wayne Johnson Website: https://www.thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com Email: kevin@thejohnsonleadershipgroup.com About the Host Dr. Toussaint Williams is a pastor, author, and leadership consultant, and the host of the Serving Second Podcast, the show for the leaders behind the leaders. Second-chair leadership is not lesser leadership. It is strategic leadership. Keywords leadership development, second-chair leadership, leading from the second chair, work life balance for leaders, federal government leadership, executive leadership, influence without authority, faith-based leadership, associate pastor leadership, Serving Second Podcast
	Authenticity Matters - E28	07 May 2026	00:45:29
Author Patty Hampton shares her journey of serving from the second seat, the importance of authenticity, influence, and listening in leadership, and how to thrive as a second chair leader. Discover practical insights on building trust, asking powerful questions, and leading with impact from a place of service. Keywords Leadership, Second Seat, Influence, Authenticity, Coaching, Trust, Influence, Leadership Development, Nonprofit, Transformation Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Patty Hampton's Journey 03:48 The Role of Second Seat Leaders 06:40 Influencing and Listening Skills 12:02 Building Trust and Authenticity 16:35 Navigating Authenticity and Approval 21:02 Communicating Effectively with Leaders 24:14 Embracing Authenticity in the Workplace 33:20 Transitioning to Solo Entrepreneurship 41:44 The Heart of Service: It's Not About You Resources Leading from the Second Seat by Patty Hampton - https://a.co/d/0hfWiCeW Soyubono - I See You (YouTube Video) - Sawubona Patty Hampton's Website - https://www.noussolepartners.com/ Website - Email - patty@noussolepartners.com
	The Power of Appreciation - E27	04 May 2026	00:36:00
In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Paul White shares his extensive experience in leadership and the importance of appreciation in the workplace. He discusses the five languages of appreciation, how they differ from traditional employee recognition, and the misconceptions surrounding appreciation. Dr. White emphasizes the need for authentic appreciation and provides practical steps for leaders to implement these concepts in their organizations, especially in hybrid work environments. He also shares transformative stories of organizations that have successfully integrated appreciation into their culture. Keywords leadership, appreciation, workplace culture, employee recognition, five languages of appreciation, Dr. Paul White, team dynamics, hybrid work, organizational behavior, employee engagement Takeaways Dr. White's journey from psychology to workplace appreciation. The difference between employee recognition and authentic appreciation. People want to be valued for who they are, not just their work. The five languages of appreciation can enhance workplace relationships. Misconceptions about appreciation can hinder its effectiveness. Leaders should not delegate appreciation; it must be personal. Remote work requires different strategies for showing appreciation. Transformative stories highlight the impact of appreciation in organizations. Small, consistent acts of appreciation can lead to significant change. Understanding individual preferences for appreciation is crucial. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Dr. Paul White's Journey 04:40 The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace 07:44 Understanding Employee Recognition vs. Authentic Appreciation 10:54 Exploring the Five Languages of Appreciation 13:33 Misconceptions About Appreciation in the Workplace 16:56 The Role of Leaders in Fostering Appreciation 19:44 Implementing Appreciation in Hybrid Work Environments 22:38 Transformative Stories of Workplace Appreciation 25:42 Practical Steps for Leaders to Encourage Appreciation 28:45 Connecting with Dr. Paul White and Resources 35:40 Outro Video- Serving Second.mp4 Resources The Five Languages of Appreciation by Gary Chapman & Paul White - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802412706 Appreciation at Work Website - https://appreciationatwork.com The Motivating by Appreciation Inventory (Assessment) - https://appreciationatwork.com/assessment Dr. Paul White on YouTube - https://youtu.be/QU6VaK9Cx0o?si=nrm2MoTu7PmUqG_e
	Your Story is Your Cheat Code! - E26	23 Apr 2026	00:47:20
Your story is your CHEATCODE!!! Toussaint sits down with Kirk Nugent for a powerful conversation on content, calling, service, and stewardship. Kirk is a digital strategist, media leader, missionary, coach, and content creator who helps people use their voice with clarity and purpose. They go deeper than cameras, thumbnails, and algorithms. Kirk explains why content is not about chasing attention. It is about serving people at scale. He shares how your story, including your flaws, fears, struggles, and lived experience, can become the very thing God uses to help someone else. Toussaint & Kirk also discuss the unique responsibility of second-chair leaders, assistants, associates, vice presidents, and behind-the-scenes servants. The message is clear: you do not have to be first to have impact. You do not have to be perfect to be useful. And you do not have to wait until everything is polished before you start serving. Key Themes Kirk explains that the parts of your life you may want to hide are often the very parts that qualify you to serve others. Your quirks, challenges, and imperfections can help people see themselves in your journey. Instead of seeing video and social media as vanity tools, Kirk frames them as stewardship. One message can serve one person in a room, or it can serve thousands online. Authenticity matters more in the age of AI. Kirk argues that AI has created a “trust recession.” People are more skeptical of polished content, which makes authentic human presence even more valuable. Second-chair leadership is still leadership. The episode connects content creation with the broader Serving Second mission. Even if you are not the lead voice in your organization, you still have a voice that can serve, teach, encourage, and equip others. You are unfairly qualified to serve an earlier version of yourself. Kirk gives one of the strongest takeaways of the episode: the best person you can serve may be someone who is where you used to be. Memorable Quotes “Don’t seek to go viral. Seek to serve.” “Your story is your cheat code.” “You are unfairly qualified to serve an earlier version of you.” “We are all second because we serve the One.” “God is still writing in your story.” Call to Action Visit Kirk Nugent online at kirkarnugent.com to learn more about his coaching, challenges, and resources. Subscribe to the Serving Second Podcast and share this episode with someone who knows they have something to say, but has been waiting for everything to be perfect. And remember: The mission I serve is greater than my title. SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headlines... to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	Leading Without the Title - E25	17 Apr 2026	00:36:06
In this episode, Toussaint interviews Ron Reich, a seasoned leadership development expert. They discuss Ron's journey into leadership, the importance of making a difference in second chair roles, and the challenges faced in leadership development. Ron emphasizes the significance of self-awareness, understanding different personalities, and the value of support staff in organizations. The conversation highlights the need for continuous improvement and the impact of effective coaching without criticism. Keywords leadership development, second chair roles, coaching, personality assessments, continuous improvement, making a difference, emotional intelligence, team dynamics, support staff, self-awareness Takeaways One of the most important parts of my career is the ability to make a difference. You never know when you're making a difference in someone's life. Stay out of the results business and focus on what you can control. Leadership development impacts not just professional lives but personal lives too. Consistency in leadership training is crucial for team success. Understanding different personalities leads to better team dynamics. Administering personality assessments can enhance workplace communication. Recognizing the value of support staff is essential for organizational success. Continuous improvement is key to effective leadership. Self-awareness is critical for making better choices in career and personal life.
	Leading after the Crisis - E24	10 Apr 2026	00:39:40
Summary In this inspiring interview, Savio P. Clemente shares his profound journey through cancer, leadership, and resilience. Discover practical strategies for leading with authenticity, managing disruptions, and cultivating adaptive resilience to thrive beyond adversity. Keywords leadership, resilience, cancer journey, authenticity, adaptive resilience, mental health, self-regulation, healing, vulnerability, leadership framework Key topics Leadership after disruption The adaptive resilience leadership framework The role of authenticity in leadership Managing health crises and emotional resilience Practical self-regulation and healing strategies Action items Practice self-regulation techniques daily Listen to your body's signals and trust them Use the Aloha Reboot to reconnect with your inner self Cultivate authenticity and vulnerability in leadership Leverage AI tools for health and decision-making Sound bites "Authenticity is the key to true leadership" "Listen to your body and trust its signals" "Silence and stillness reveal your true self" Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:40 Introduction & Journey to Leadership Clarity 05:07 The Impact of Personal Health Crises 07:45 Navigating Cancer Diagnosis and Relapse 08:44 Cancer Fight - Stage 3 09:28 Cancer Relapse - 10 years later 11:22 Finding Purpose in Adversity 17:17 Empowerment Through Knowledge and Self-Regulation 18:51 Navigating Disruptions: Self-Regulation and Participation 19:31 Life After Crisis: Performance Under Pressure 20:59 Psychological Distancing: Finding Clarity in Chaos 22:14 Silence and Stillness: The Power of Reflection 23:41 Adaptive Resilience: Flexibility in Adversity 25:00 Spiritual Exile: The Journey of Healing 26:04 Finding Peace: Slowing Down in a Fast-Paced World 27:24 Aloha Reboot: Embracing Your Inner Self 29:59 Humility in Leadership: Authenticity Over Performance 33:07 Leading with Clarity: Embracing Vulnerability 39:20 Outro Video- Serving Second.mp4 Resources Savio Clemente's TEDx Talk: Seven Minutes to Wellness - https://youtu.be/J-DHtD2n0qo?si=JA-gX3NSmIcL8RKw Adaptive Resilience Leadership Framework - https://example.com/framework Connect with Savio LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/saviopclemente Website - https://www.saviopclemente.com/
	The Enforcer! - E23	02 Apr 2026	00:36:41
Ever wondered what it really takes to pull a seamless church service together? Spoiler alert — it’s way more than just creating a runsheet! In this episode, I sit down with the worship manager, Danita Jones, to reveal the behind-the-scenes magic that keeps the spiritual flow smooth, timely, and impactful. Trust me, this is the secret sauce every young adult professional in church leadership or event planning needs in their back pocket. In this episode: How Danita's journey from theater to church leadership revolutionized her approach to worship management The superhero role of a worship manager, compared to air traffic control—think controlling hundreds of moving parts every single week The story behind the infamous church timer — and why time management isn’t just about clocks, but about creating meaningful moments Balancing family, life, and a high-stakes church role without losing your mind (or your joy) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 - Dive into the world of worship management 00:24 - Introducing Danita Jones: worship director, mama, and all-around hero 00:38 - The little things that put a smile on your face—finding joy in the simple wins 01:25 - The importance of community and family—balancing motherhood and ministry 02:10 - The story behind her "crew" and her nearly 23-year marriage 04:23 - How worship management became her rhythm 05:14 - Demystifying the role of a worship manager—air traffic controller in the sky of church flow 06:12 - Building the perfect run sheet based on the pastor’s sermon length and service goals 08:53 - The chaos of tech mishaps 10:06 - Navigating a live service 12:05 - The story that ignited her passion: experiencing a time-managed service 14:11 - How the infamous church timer works 15:34 - Resetting the service flow 16:54 - From Nashville to Ohio: how one church trip changed her perspective on worship and time 17:20 - The story that made her realize every church needs a worship manager 20:15 - Tips and tricks: how to orchestrate services that inspire, move, and leave people on fire for God Resources & Links: Danita Jones on LinkedIn — connect with her for more wisdom Oakwood University Church — the church where she’s dear to her craft Breath of Life TV Danita's Website
	From HR to ESPN? - E:22	26 Mar 2026	00:35:59
Ever feel like you're stuck in the shadows or just playing a supporting role in life's grand play? Well, buckle up, because today’s episode is all about embracing that second seat — and turning it into a throne of influence, purpose, and potential! Kirk, aka The Seed Sower Coach, spills the secrets of how serving behind the scenes can lead to extraordinary breakthroughs, both in careers and in life. Spoiler alert: your greatest impact might just come from the roles nobody celebrates first! In this episode: How faith transforms the idea of leadership into service without ego Kirk’s journey from HR to ESPN and coaching — and how mentorship unlocked new pathways The behind-the-scenes magic of producing a major sports broadcast with hundreds of crew members Why age is just a number — Kirk's tips for thriving in your 60s and beyond The metaphorical power of seeds and soil in coaching, growth, and potential Practical wisdom for those serving in secondary roles: unlocking unseen gifts The importance of community, contribution, and the power of perspective in life's seasons How to keep learning and growing when the spotlight isn't on you Timestamps: 00:00 - Unlocking your potential through service and faith 01:03 - Kirk’s leap from sports stats to ESPN and coaching 02:25 - The value of mentorship and career pivoting 03:43 - How ESPN launched Kirk into broadcasting stardom behind the scenes 07:23 - Lessons learned from supporting roles in high-stakes sports productions 11:16 - Navigating leadership tension in second seat roles 13:03 - Unlocking potential in others & self through coaching 16:52 - The story behind "The Seed Sower" — planting and nurturing growth 19:33 - Writing a book at any age and pursuing lifelong goals 29:28 - Embracing aging, health, and staying driven in your 60s and beyond 31:54 - Serving second: Embracing the importance and impact of secondary roles 34:20 - The beauty of being second in command: lessons from history and pop culture 35:13 - Connect with Kirk at theseedsowercoach.com Resources & Links: The Seed Sower Coach Website Connect with Kirk: Website Get inspired to serve second, lead humbly, and unlock your God-given potential! Don't wait for the spotlight — your greatest impact might just shine from the shadows. So, if you're feeling underrated, undervalued, or simply in the second seat right now, remember — that seat might just be your launchpad. Oh, and by the way: your next chapter is just one seed away from blooming! Now go ahead, plant those seeds!
	The Path to Clarity- E21	19 Mar 2026	00:29:58
Clarity Starts With ME! In this episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams reflects on leadership from the second chair, emphasizing clarity, purpose, and practical strategies for leaders who serve without the final say. He shares insights from conversations with leadership expert Seth Yelorda and offers actionable tips for second chair leaders to enhance their impact. Keywords Leadership, Second Chair, Clarity, Organizational Culture, Leadership Development, Coaching, Leadership Strategies, Servant Leadership Key topics Leadership from the second chair Clarity as a discipline and personal responsibility Translation of vision and trade-offs Daily leadership and focus on today The importance of coaching and capacity building guest name Sound bites "Clarity starts with you" "If your goals are big, coaching is part of the cost" "The mission you serve is bigger than your title" Chapters 00:00 Navigating the Tension of Second Chair Leadership 03:36 Personal Discipline and Clarity 04:13 Clarity Requires Personal Discipline! 04:41 NEWCHAPTER 06:53 Understanding Your Role in the Vision 07:13 Lessons I had to Learn 16:06 Translation and Trade-offs in Leadership 22:52 The Role of Coaching in Leadership 27:10 Key Takeaways for Second Chair Leaders 29:30 Outro Video- Serving Second.mp4 Resources Seth Yelorda - Vision Clarity Expert - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethdelorda https://sethyelorda.com/ Coaching and Leadership Development Resources - https://www.coaching.com SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	Mastering Influence as a 2nd Chair Leader - E20	13 Mar 2026	00:43:48
In this crossover episode, Toussaint and Adrienne explore the unique challenges and opportunities of second chair leadership, emphasizing influence, character, and strategic support to lead with impact from any position. They also discuss the significance of embracing unique gifts and fostering a culture of growth and support. Keywords Second chair leadership, influence, organizational impact, leadership development, servant leadership, organizational culture, leadership principles, mentorship, resilience, leadership growth Key Topics Unique challenges of second chair leadership How to add influence without overstepping Building loyalty based on principles, not personalities Supporting the leader above while stewarding the team Developing leadership skills that transcend titles Sound bites "Second chair leadership is not a backup plan" "You can make an impact without being in the spotlight" "Find ways to enhance your gifts to support your team" Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Second Chair Leadership 06:55 Understanding the Challenges of Second Chair Leadership 12:50 Navigating Responsibility Without Authority 17:26 Adding Value as a Second Chair Leader 21:35 Overcoming Internal Challenges 24:46 Managing Loyalty and Advocacy 28:13 The Second Chair as a Training Ground 32:19 Investing in Leadership Skills 36:33 Practical Actions for Second Chair Leaders Resources Serving Second Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serving-second/id123456789 How to Be a Scottie in a Michael Jordan World - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0XXXXXXX Toussaint Williams, PhD - https://www.linkedin.com/in/toussaintwilliams SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	Embracing the Backbone Leadership Mindset - E19	05 Mar 2026	00:50:19
In this episode, we explore the powerful concept of backbone leadership — serving in the second seat with confidence, clarity, and strategic communication. L. David Harris shares his journey, principles, and practical strategies for second chair leaders who want to make a first-place impact without losing their energy or authenticity. Key Topics: The distinction between positional and intrinsic identity in leadership roles How understanding your wiring can empower you as a second chair leader The importance of clear communication and regular alignment with primary leaders Navigating conflict calmly by leaning into strategic restraint and quiet patience The critical role of consistency in check-ins to maintain mission alignment The biblical framework of serving with humility, like David’s model of support for King Saul and Jonathan Recognizing and respecting the unique contributions of backbone leaders in organizational success Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to serving second chair leaders creating first place outcomes 02:00 - The origin story: embracing backbone identity from childhood roots 05:00 - Wiring versus position: understanding intrinsic leadership qualities 09:00 - The importance of making the primary leader shine and succeed 12:00 - Disciplining oneself to serve from a healthy, non-competitive mindset 15:00 - The necessity of mission clarity and strategic alignment in organizational structures 18:00 - The difference between primary and secondary leadership roles in vision-setting and strategy 22:00 - How to communicate intentionally based on the leader's language and personality 26:00 - Managing conflict without confrontation through strategic patience and silence 30:00 - The importance of regular check-ins to ensure ongoing alignment and trust 35:00 - The danger of overextending oneself and the biblical perspective on serving within limits 40:00 - Practical mindset shifts: honesty, recalibration, and maintaining focus on the mission 44:00 - Connecting with L. David Harris for coaching and leadership development 46:00 - Recognizing the unique contribution of the grounds crew and resource leaders 48:00 - Final encouragement: you can't serve everyone and that's okay Resources & Links: L. David Harris - Official Website The Bible: 1 Corinthians 15:58 This episode affirms that serving in the second chair is a strategic and vital role. Leaders who embrace their unique wiring, communicate with purpose, and maintain alignment will consistently elevate organizational success. Remember, your impact matters—doing your part with clarity and humility creates first-place outcomes. SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond
	Stop Waiting for Your Turn: The Real Meaning of Serving Second - E36	10 Jul 2026	00:32:53
What if the seat you are waiting to leave is the very place where your leadership is being developed? In this special solo episode, Toussaint resets and reintroduces the heart of Serving Second. After months of conversations with high-performing leaders, he recognized that the movement had been framed too narrowly. Serving Second is not about accepting a lesser position, becoming comfortable in the background, or waiting for your turn to lead. It is about maximizing your gifts, mastering your current assignment, and creating first-place outcomes from whatever seat you occupy. Drawing from the stories of Jonathan and David, Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan, and CJ Quinney and Eric Thomas, Dr. Williams explores the security required to use your abilities to strengthen someone else. These leaders did not serve second because they lacked talent. They chose to leverage their talent for a mission bigger than personal recognition. Dr. Williams also shares his own struggle with being overlooked for positions he believed should have been his. That disappointment forced him to confront a difficult question: Was he genuinely serving the mission, or was he quietly waiting to be chosen? You will learn the difference between position and posture, service and negotiation, ambition and insecurity, and excellence and performance. You will also discover the four pursuits every leader must develop: character, competence, contribution, and calling. Serving Second is a challenge to become greater in your stewardship, discipline, service, and impact. In this episode: Why Serving Second needed a reset How titles distort our understanding of leadership The difference between serving and waiting Why disappointment exposes where your identity is rooted How position differs from posture Why quiet gifts still carry tremendous value The four pursuits of extraordinary stewardship Why the greatest leaders make everyone around them better Key takeaway: You are not powerless because you do not have the title you want. Your opportunity is already here. Your gifts are already enough. Your assignment has already begun. Chapters: 00:16 – The pain of being misunderstood 01:30 – Where Serving Second missed the mark 03:50 – A reset for the movement 05:26 – The dangerous way we measure leadership 06:34 – Stop waiting for a better seat 08:04 – Watching Eric Thomas’s journey 10:35 – Why meeting CJ Quinney mattered 13:00 – Choosing to put someone else first 15:00 – Jonathan’s rightful claim to the throne 17:30 – Strengthening the person God selected 19:32 – Serving Second begins inside you 20:00 – When the position you expected never comes 21:39 – Proximity is not a promise 22:44 – Are you serving or waiting? 24:43 – When excellence becomes a bargaining chip 25:28 – Position versus posture 27:10 – Service, performance, and stewardship 28:17 – Learning to value quiet gifts 30:02 – Stewarding disappointment 31:18 – Becoming valuable right now 33:34 – The new direction of Serving Second 34:40 – Pursuit one: Character 35:58 – Pursuit two: Competence 37:05 – Pursuit three: Contribution 38:05 – Pursuit four: Calling Reflection questions: Am I faithfully serving, or am I quietly waiting to be chosen? Have I confused proximity to a position with a promise of promotion? What gift comes naturally to me that I may be undervaluing? Subscribe to the Serving Second Podcast and share it with someone whose contribution deserves to be recognized. Maximize your gifts. Multiply your impact. Keep Serving Second.
	Why Do Smart Leaders Stay Silent In Big Moments? - E18	26 Feb 2026	00:47:20
Being quiet too long can cost you! Summary: Toussaint sits down with leadership guru Pierre Quinn for a powerful conversation on influence, confidence, and the courage to speak up when you are not the person at the top. Pierre breaks down how second-chair leaders often get stuck by over-focusing on what they do not control instead of leveraging the influence they already have. He also challenges leaders to stop shrinking, stop comparing, and start owning the value they bring to the room. That's why clarity matters in your career, and discusses how real influence often happens before the final decisions are ever made. And one of the biggest reminders in this conversation is this: you do not need to become somebody else to lead well. The goal is not imitation. The goal is to fully walk in who you are and bring that value with confidence. If this episode speaks to where you are in leadership, subscribe to the channel, like this video, and share it with another second-chair leader who needs this conversation. Then drop a comment below: Where have you been underestimating your influence? or What is one place you need to speak up with more clarity this season? Your comment may help another leader put words to what they have been feeling. Keywords: second chair leadership leading without authority executive influence leadership confidence career growth self-advocacy professional development SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	Stop Leaving Potential on the Table - E:17	19 Feb 2026	00:47:01
We all can benefit from more K.A.S.H.!!! Welcome Seth Yelorda, a leadership coach and renowned keynote speaker! We talked about the importance of vision clarity and leadership in the second chair role. Seth shares insights on personal and organizational clarity, the role of coaching, and the pursuit of growth beyond comfort zones. The conversation explores the challenges and opportunities of serving in a secondary leadership role, emphasizing the importance of stewarding one's current position while preparing for future opportunities. It delves into the concept of 'serving second' and the daily habits that can help individuals in secondary roles to influence and change the culture within their organizations. Takeaways Vision clarity is essential for both personal and organizational leadership. Coaching is crucial for pushing past comfort zones and achieving personal and professional growth. Serving in a secondary leadership role requires owning one's energy, developing habits, and shaping the emotional climate of the work environment. Leaders in secondary roles should focus on accumulating 'cash' (knowledge, attitude, skills, and habits) to prepare for future leadership opportunities. Chapters 00:00 Setting Big Goals and the Role of Contentment 25:01 Identity and Self-Worth in Leadership Roles 30:05 Daily Habits for Secondary Leaders 37:15 Regular Communication and Alignment SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	How Karl Phillips Became ET's Backbone - Part 2	13 Feb 2026	00:26:18
KARL IS IN THE BUILDING!!! This is part two of Toussaint's interview with Karl Phillips, known as the Bayesian sensation. They discuss Karl's journey from being an introverted support role to becoming a leader in his own right. Karl shares his experiences working with Eric Thomas, the importance of serving in the background, and how he overcame insecurities to embrace personal growth. He emphasizes the significance of community, self-reflection, and the pursuit of excellence in achieving one's potential. The conversation culminates in Karl's insights on navigating self-doubt and the transformative power of faith and personal responsibility. Keywords leadership, personal growth, support roles, overcoming fear, community, self-reflection, excellence, Karl Phillips, podcast, motivation Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Journey 02:53 The Early Days with Eric Thomas 05:51 God's Timing and Personal Growth 08:46 Leading in Support: A New Perspective 11:49 Overcoming Self-Doubt and Fear 14:44 The Birth of a Book and Community 17:37 Finding Purpose Through Writing 20:32 The Impact of Personal Experiences 23:42 Building a Community and Coaching Programs 26:56 The Power of Unique Experiences in Leadership 28:02 Transforming Pain into Purpose 30:25 Daily Practices for Spiritual Growth 32:10 Conquering Self-Doubt and Building Discipline 39:04 The Importance of Communication in Relationships 42:22 Setting Goals for Personal Growth 49:15 Embracing Excellence in the Background
	How Karl Phillips Became ET's Backbone - Part 1	13 Feb 2026	00:29:07
WELCOME Karl Phillips - the Bayesian sensation to the Serving Second podcast! In this episode they discuss Karl's journey from Barbados to working with motivational speaker Eric Thomas, emphasizing the importance of support roles in achieving success. Karl shares his personal growth, the challenges of overcoming fear, and the significance of leading in support. He also talks about the creation of his book and community, highlighting how unique experiences can impact others' lives. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Journey 02:52 The Early Days with Eric Thomas 05:51 God's Timing and Personal Growth 08:50 Leading in Support: A New Perspective 11:56 Overcoming Self-Doubt and Fear 14:53 The Birth of a Book and Community 17:49 Finding Purpose Through Writing 20:44 The Impact of Personal Experiences 23:55 Building a Community and Coaching Programs 27:11 The Power of Unique Experiences in Leadership 28:17 Transforming Pain into Purpose
	The New Year Reset - 2026	13 Feb 2026	00:20:55
In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Toussaint explores the concept of serving second as a leadership mindset. He discusses the challenges faced by those in supportive roles, the importance of emotional maturity, and the lessons learned from past experiences. The conversation emphasizes the significance of aligning with a mission greater than oneself and the value of celebrating others' successes. Looking ahead to 2026, the podcast aims to provide insights on supporting greatness without losing one's identity. Keywords leadership, serving second, influence, humility, emotional maturity, challenges, lessons, alignment, mission, growth Takeaways Serving second is not a stepping stone; it's a mindset. The hardest part of serving second is often feeling invisible. Serving second means stewarding influence without needing visibility. Emotional maturity is crucial for celebrating others' successes. Clarity in communication prevents mission drift. You can lead without needing the spotlight. Serving second leaders empower others to win. The mission is greater than individual titles. Navigating loyalty and ambition is essential in leadership. This year, we focus on building leaders, not chasing titles. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Leadership 00:50 Defining Serving Second 02:54 Challenges of Serving Second 04:11 Key Lessons from 2025 13:27 Looking Ahead to 2026
	How Kymone Became Everybody's Scottie	13 Feb 2026	00:29:46
Toussaint interviews Kymone Hinds, a coach and mentor who specializes in helping others monetize their ministry. Kymone shares his journey from youth ministry to business coaching, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and nurturing the abilities of others. He discusses the joy of supporting others' success, the significance of collaboration, and the need for individuals to embrace their unique gifts. The conversation highlights the value of serving in a second chair role and how it can lead to personal growth and expanded opportunities. Keywords serving second, Kymone Hinds, monetizing ministry, coaching, supporting others, personal growth, collaboration, business coaching, youth ministry, leadership Takeaways Recognizing the abilities of others is a valuable skill. Helping others succeed can bring personal joy and fulfillment. Collaboration can lead to new opportunities and growth. Investing in your own vision is essential for success. Serving in a second role is just as impactful as leading. Confidence in your role can lead to greater achievements. Your unique story has value that can help others. Don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone. Serving others can lead to personal and professional growth. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Podcast 01:47 Kymone Hinds: The Journey Begins 05:31 The Role of a Second Chair 07:11 Building Confidence in Supporting Others 12:10 The Joy of Helping Others Succeed 15:36 Expanding Opportunities Through Collaboration 21:10 Investing in Your Own Vision 28:28 Connecting with Kymone Hinds
	Your Vibe Attracts Your Tribe - Chanda Nunes-Henry	13 Feb 2026	00:34:44
In this episode of the Serving Second podcast, host Toussaint Williams interviews Chanda Nunes-Henry, a vice president and executive secretary of a multimillion-dollar nonprofit. They discuss Chanda's journey in leadership, her experiences as a minority in a male-dominated field, and the importance of recognizing one's calling. Chanda shares insights on defining success, overcoming challenges, and the significance of building a supportive network. She emphasizes the need for teachability and the value of acknowledgment in leadership roles, encouraging listeners to embrace their unique paths and shine in their positions. Keywords leadership, second chair, minority leadership, calling, success, support system, teachability, acknowledgment, women in leadership, personal growth Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Leadership 00:42 Shonda's Role and Responsibilities 02:38 Navigating Gender and Ethnicity in Leadership 05:50 The Journey of Calling and Purpose 09:43 Defining Success in the Second Chair 12:37 Overcoming Challenges and Hurt in Leadership 16:38 Building a Support System 20:33 The Importance of Teachable Moments 24:40 Advice for Future Leaders 26:23 Acknowledgment and Recognition in Leadership 30:28 Future Aspirations and Writing Plans 31:50 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
	They Called YOU For A Reason! - Dr. Vandeon Griffin	13 Feb 2026	00:41:01
Dr. Vandeon Griffin shares his journey as an associate youth director for the North American Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. He discusses the transition from a first chair leadership role to a second chair position, emphasizing the importance of teamwork, clear communication, and building trust within a leadership team. Dr. Griffin highlights the joys and challenges of serving in a supporting role and encourages listeners to embrace their assignments with excellence and passion. He stresses that leadership is not just about authority but about being trusted by those you lead, and the significance of doing life together with your team. Keywords leadership, serving second, youth ministry, teamwork, organizational leadership, associate roles, communication, trust, family, personal growth Takeaways Serving in a second chair role is a privilege, not a downgrade. Clear communication about roles and responsibilities is essential. Building trust within a team enhances collaboration and effectiveness. Doing life together with colleagues fosters deeper relationships. Crushing the assignment in front of you leads to personal and professional growth. Leadership is about how well you are trusted, not just how well you lead. Two is always better than one in a team setting. Finding joy in supporting roles can lead to less stress and more fulfillment. Embrace your gifts and let them shine in your role. Celebrate successes and support each other through challenges. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Podcast 02:45 Transitioning from Lead to Associate Director 09:12 Navigating New Team Dynamics 15:33 The Importance of Clear Communication 21:52 Finding Joy in Supporting Roles 23:36 Embracing Leadership Responsibilities 28:49 Building a Unified Team Culture 30:47 The Importance of Trust in Leadership 39:01 Crushing the Assignment in Second Place Roles
	Faith that Fights	13 Feb 2026	00:18:50
Time to put up or shut up!!! Faith requires action! Summary In this conversation, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the theme of faith in leadership, particularly focusing on the biblical figure Jonathan from 1 Samuel. He emphasizes that true faith requires action, often in the face of uncertainty and adversity. The discussion highlights the importance of courage, integrity, and the ability to inspire others through example. Williams encourages second chair leaders to take initiative, lift others up, and trust in God, regardless of their position or the circumstances they face. Key Takeaways Faith sounds easy until you have to act on it. Serving second requires faith that fights. Courage isn't about rank, it's about responsibility. Faith does not require perfect circumstances. People follow conviction before they follow position. Leadership isn't about giving orders, it's about setting an example. Faith shared is faith multiplied. True leaders climb first and bring others with them. God can do great things with small numbers. The mission I serve is bigger than my title. Chapters 00:00 The Essence of Faith in Action 00:56 Courage Rooted in Confidence 01:52 Historical Lessons of Leadership 03:50 Jonathan's Bold Move 07:21 The Power of Vulnerable Leadership 09:44 Faith Inspires Action 12:00 The Invitation to Lead 14:12 Faith That Serves 15:54 Together in Victory SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	Unsung Heroes: Ava Willis-Barksdale	13 Feb 2026	00:36:27
Serving Second at an HBCU - the Joys and Challenges! Mrs. Ava Willis-Barksdale shares her insights on the unique challenges and rewards of serving in a second chair leadership role. She discusses the duality of being a second, the importance of humility, and the joy found in supporting others. Ava emphasizes the need for ownership in leadership, navigating feelings of invisibility, and the significance of having a supportive community. She offers practical advice for both aspiring leaders and those currently in second chair roles, highlighting the value of exposure and continuous growth. Takeaways Being in a second chair role has both pros and cons. Managing up, down, and across is a unique challenge. Finding joy in small wins is essential for leadership. Humility is a strength, not a weakness in leadership. Ownership is crucial, even for things outside your control. Navigating feelings of invisibility is common in leadership. Having a strong prayer life can help in tough situations. Exposure to different organizations enhances leadership skills. Writing down ideas helps clarify and communicate vision. Continuous growth is vital in a supportive role. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Leadership 01:12 The Duality of Serving Second 02:53 Navigating the Challenges of Second Chair Roles 05:36 Finding Joy in Leadership 08:25 The Importance of Humility in Leadership 11:02 Taking Ownership as a Second 12:14 Experiencing Invisibility in Leadership 15:08 Navigating Ambition and Invisibility 20:32 Bringing Vision to the Table 26:02 Empowering Associates as a Leader 29:27 Continuous Growth in Leadership 32:11 Advice for New Leaders 33:39 Encouragement for Those Serving Second
	He Built Companies, Then Realized He Was the Problem - E35	02 Jul 2026	00:43:08
Servant leadership is not soft leadership. It may be the most strategic way to get real results. In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kurt Uhlir for a direct conversation about leadership, humility, business outcomes, and the hard personal work required to become the kind of leader people can trust. Kurt started his first businesses at 14 years old. One was a lawn care company that grew so quickly he had friends and even adults working for him. Early on, he learned how to sell, organize systems, and produce results. But later, he had to face a painful truth. He was getting results, but he was not leading well. Kurt shares the moment his mentor and his mother both told him the truth he did not want to hear. He had become a toxic authoritative leader. He was demanding outcomes, but creating fear. He was pushing people, but not truly developing them. He was leading in a way that caused bad information to stay hidden and good information to be filtered. That wake-up call changed the way he viewed leadership. This episode is not just about being nicer at work. Kurt makes the business case for servant leadership. He explains why fear-based leadership slows organizations down, why leaders miss critical information when people are afraid to speak honestly, and why serving people well can improve performance, trust, retention, and decision-making. Dr. Williams and Kurt also discuss the power of being a second-chair leader, operator, and “kingmaker.” Kurt explains why he finds deep fulfillment in helping other leaders succeed instead of always trying to sit in the top chair himself. He also talks about what it takes to support a leader well, ask better questions, understand organizational outcomes, and serve the whole person, not just the employee. One of the strongest moments in the conversation is Kurt’s reminder that leaders must create space for honest feedback. If people cannot tell you where you are wrong, your organization will eventually pay for it. Healthy conflict is not a threat to leadership. It is one of the ways leadership gets better. This conversation is for executives, entrepreneurs, ministry leaders, second-chair leaders, operators, and anyone who wants to lead with both excellence and humility. In this episode: • Why early success can hide unhealthy leadership patterns • How Kurt moved from toxic authority to servant leadership • Why fear-based cultures block honest information • How servant leadership creates better business outcomes • Why leaders must care about the whole person • What it means to be a kingmaker or queen maker • How second-chair leaders can bring value without chasing the spotlight • Why healthy conflict must be modeled, not just talked about Leadership Challenge: Ask yourself, “What am I wrong about right now that I think I’m right about?” Then ask someone on your team, “What am I missing that I need to know?” Do not defend yourself. Do not explain it away. Ask clarifying questions. Listen. Learn. Then lead better. Guest: Kurt Uhlir Website: kurtuhlir.com About Serving Second: Toussaint helps leaders maximize the gifts they already have in the seat they currently occupy. Second-chair leadership is not lesser leadership. It is strategic leadership. When you serve with clarity, excellence, humility, and skill, you can create first-place outcomes from wherever you lead. Subscribe for more conversations on servant leadership, second-chair leadership, business leadership, ministry leadership, personal growth, and leading well from wherever you are. #ServingSecond #SecondChairLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #BusinessLeadership #ChristianLeadership #ExecutiveLeadership #TeamLeadership #ToussaintWilliams
	Warriors Serve in Silence	13 Feb 2026	00:18:04
Toussaint explores the challenges and rewards of serving in a secondary role. He emphasizes the importance of character, discipline, and the unseen work that builds strong leaders. Drawing lessons from historical figures like Admiral McRaven and Harriet Tubman, he highlights that true strength lies in quiet consistency and faithfulness, even when recognition is absent. The episode encourages listeners to embrace their roles, serve with integrity, and understand that their efforts matter, even if they go unnoticed. Keywords serving second, leadership, character, discipline, hidden work, courage, integrity, second chair, strength, opportunity Takeaways Serving second requires hard work and dedication. Being in a secondary role does not mean being less than. Discipline under pressure is key to success. The unseen work builds character and strength. Character is developed in private, not in public. Strength in secret builds stability in public. Your assignment may not always come with applause. Real strength is consistent and quiet. Excellence in work is a form of worship. Serving second is a calling for warriors. Chapters 00:00 The Weight of Serving Second 01:05 Welcome 01:25 Lessons from Admiral McRaven 02:59 Discipline Under Pressure 05:03 Strength in Secret Seasons 08:47 Character Before Opportunity 10:47 Real Strength is Consistent 12:44 Serving Second: A Higher Calling 14:22 Legacy Over Fame 16:06 Auditing Habits and Serving with Strength 17:12 Recap and Call to Action
	Singing When the Song Isn't About You	27 Nov 2025	00:10:28
How do you sing with the song is about someone else??? Summary In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint explores the theme of leadership from the second chair, emphasizing the importance of celebrating others' successes and the role of gratitude in leadership. Through the story of Jonathan and David, he illustrates how mature leaders can appreciate the achievements of others while remaining focused on the mission. The conversation highlights key lessons about humility, the significance of gratitude, and the necessity of sincere celebration in leadership roles. Keywords leadership, gratitude, second chair, Jonathan, celebration, humility, Thanksgiving, teamwork, maturity, appreciation Takeaways Can you celebrate someone else's win when the spotlight passes over you? Gratitude is a discipline. Mature leaders know how to celebrate a win even when their name is not on the banner. Envy cannot grow in a grateful heart. Thanksgiving is a leadership skill, not just a holiday. Second chair leaders understand the mission is bigger than the moment. Identity makes celebration possible. Someone will always benefit from your unseen work. Sincere celebration says, I will rejoice. Gratitude keeps you focused on the bigger picture. Chapters 00:00 Celebrating Others' Success 01:40 Lessons from Jonathan's Leadership 03:19 The Power of Gratitude in Leadership 05:13 Understanding the Bigger Mission 07:15 The Unseen Work of Second Chair Leaders 08:04 Sincere Celebration vs. Polite Applause
	You Never Lose When You Serve	16 Oct 2025	00:15:26
This episode explores the themes of leadership, service, and privilege through the story of Jonathan, the heir to Saul. He shares personal insights from his life as a middle child, emphasizing the importance of choosing service over competition. Keywords leadership, service, privilege, Jonathan, Saul, middle child, competition, covenant Takeaways Jonathan deserved the crown but chose to serve. Serving is greater than competing. Privilege is redefined as stewardship. Greatness is making first possible. Leadership involves spiritual and economic responsibilities. Serving second is strength under control. Jonathan chose covenant over competition. The drum major instinct is a call to serve. True leadership is about advancing the mission. Serving releases entitlement and embraces advocacy. SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	How to Stay Aligned When Everything Shifts	11 Dec 2025	00:19:56
HAVE THE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS... Multiple times!!! In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams emphasizes the importance of clarity and alignment in leadership, particularly for those in second chair roles. He draws lessons from the biblical relationship between Jonathan and David, highlighting how reaffirmation and open communication can strengthen partnerships and prevent misunderstandings. Practical steps for leaders to check alignment and ensure everyone is on the same page are provided, along with a challenge to engage in alignment conversations with team members. Takeaways Clarity costs nothing, but confusion costs everything. Alignment must be checked because people change. Strong leaders check in regularly with their teams. Healthy partnerships ask questions before problems arise. Reaffirmation is not insecurity; it's a sign of strong leadership. Clarity protects relationships and strengthens trust. Pressure requires clarity to prevent misalignment. True partnership requires ongoing conversation. Leaders should not assume the health of their organization based on past conversations. The mission served is bigger than individual titles. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Leadership 11:48 Lessons from Jonathan and David 17:09 Practical Steps for Alignment 23:06 Recap and Conclusion
	You did not get the title. Now what?	09 Oct 2025	00:19:25
How do you serve when you don't get the position? Is service based on position or purpose? In this the very first episode of Serving Second, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the journey of individuals in second chair roles, emphasizing that being overlooked does not diminish one's value or purpose. Through biblical examples, particularly the story of David and Jonathan, he discusses the importance of understanding one's identity, discerning God's anointing, and recognizing that the mission is greater than any title. The episode concludes with actionable steps for listeners to affirm their roles and support others in similar positions. Takeaways You can create first place outcomes from second place finishes. Being in a second chair role is strategic, not secondary. God looks at the heart, not outward appearances. Your identity is rooted in being a child of God. Titles do not define your worth or calling. Discern the anointing of God in your situation. You can lead from a second chair position. Affirm others who may feel overlooked. The mission you serve is bigger than your title. You are a vital part of the team and the plan. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Winning from Second Place 02:20 Understanding the Second Chair Perspective 05:01 The Story of David and Jonathan 07:46 Navigating Feelings of Being Overlooked 10:38 Identity Before Activity 13:17 Action Steps for Second Chair Leaders 15:44 Recap and Conclusion SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	What Myron Learned Leaving the Spotlight	14 Jan 2026	00:36:11
Summary In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams engages in a heartfelt conversation with Dr. Myron P. Edmonds about the journey of second chair leaders and the importance of serving others. Myron shares his transition from pastoral ministry to focusing on men's personal development, discussing the challenges and fears associated with stepping into obscurity. The conversation emphasizes the significance of relationships, the need for a winning strategy in life, and the impact of teamwork in achieving success. Myron's insights on faith, provision, and the importance of serving second resonate throughout the discussion, culminating in a powerful message about living a life of purpose and impact. Keywords ministry, personal development, men's coaching, faith journey, serving second, family dynamics, teamwork, obscurity, winning in what matters, transition Takeaways Serving second leaders can create first place outcomes. Many voices of second chair leaders have not been heard. Purpose is about obeying the voice of God in the present. Obscurity can lead to clarity and growth. Faith journeys require obedience without knowing the destination. Winning in what matters prioritizes relationships over status. Good intentions without direction lead to missed goals. Teamwork is essential for achieving success. Impact is more important than image in leadership. God rewards those who serve others selflessly. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Podcast 01:21 Myron's Journey in Ministry 03:18 Transitioning to Men's Winning Circle 04:38 Family Dynamics in Career Change 06:19 Facing Obscurity and Fear of Irrelevance 09:11 Growth in the Shadows 10:54 Faith and Provision in New Ventures 13:01 The Importance of Support Systems 15:31 Serving Second in Obscure Seasons 17:42 Growth in Seasons of Darkness 21:30 Winning in What Matters 26:20 Couples and Community 29:21 The Power of Teamwork and Support
	Power Shared is Power Multiplied	23 Oct 2025	00:15:26
If you can't share, you shouldn't lead! In this episode of Serving Second, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the concept of leadership through the lens of Jonathan and David's relationship. He emphasizes the importance of giving away power, sharing resources, and the vulnerability that comes with true leadership. The discussion highlights how Jonathan's actions symbolize trust and support, and how leaders can apply these lessons in their own contexts. The episode concludes with practical challenges for listeners to implement in their leadership roles. Takeaways The smartest leaders give away power. Power shared is power multiplied. Legacy outlives the spotlight. What looks like loss is actually stewardship. You don't lose influence, you multiply impact. Trusting over territory is essential. Resource without strings attached. Identify and share your assets with others. Each symbol of leadership has meaning. The mission I serve is bigger than my title. Chapters 00:00 The Power of Giving Away Leadership 02:02 Lessons from Jonathan and David 04:36 Symbols of Leadership: The Gear of Jonathan 07:11 The Importance of Vulnerability in Leadership 09:18 Trusting God with Our Resources 12:10 Practical Applications of Leadership Lessons 14:01 Legacy and Leadership: What We Leave Behind 16:24 The Challenge to Share and Resource Others SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headline. This is not hype. It’s practical coaching, honest stories, and faith-rooted perspective to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. We talk leadership, identity, decision-making, confidence, communication, and calling, plus the real life stuff that comes with carrying responsibility at work and at home. The mission: The mission you serve is bigger than your title. If you’ve ever felt overlooked, under-credited, or stretched thin, this is for you. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.
	The Science of Yes! - E34	25 Jun 2026	00:59:39
The Science of Ethical Persuasion Second-chair leaders don't always have the final say — but the most effective ones know how to influence without authority. In this episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams sits down with ethical persuasion expert and keynote speaker Patrick van der Burght (Melbourne, Australia) to unpack the science behind ethical influence and what it means for leaders in every sector. 🎯 What You'll Learn in This Episode: Why persuasion is NOT manipulation — and why the difference matters for leaders How Dr. Robert Cialdini's 7 Principles of Influence apply to real-world leadership The "Unity" principle and why co-creation makes teams more loyal and forgiving How loss language outperforms gain language when motivating behavior A real case study: how one question boosted patient case acceptance by 33.5% across four dental clinics Why knowledge alone isn't power — and what application skill actually looks like ⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 — Welcome & Introduction 02:09 — What is ethical persuasion? 04:13 — Patrick's origin story: scuba diving, cassette tapes & Dr. Cialdini 13:00 — Cialdini's 7 Principles of Influence explained 45:00 — Real-world application for second-chair leaders 53:31 — Consistency & Scarcity principles unpacked 59:10 — One principle leaders can apply THIS week 👤 About the Guest: Patrick van der Burght is an ethical persuasion trainer, keynote speaker, and host of the Ethical Persuasion Unlocked podcast, based in Melbourne, Australia. He is a certified expert in the science of influence rooted in the research of Dr. Robert Cialdini. 📌 Website: ethicalpersuasion.com.au 🎙️ Podcast: Ethical Persuasion Unlocked (start from Episode 1) 📘 Free eBook + Email Challenge: ethicalpersuasion.com.au/free 🎙️ About the Serving Second Podcast: Hosted by Dr. Toussaint Williams — pastor, author, and executive leader — the Serving Second Podcast equips second-chair leaders to create first-place outcomes from wherever they serve. 🌐 servingsecond.com \| 📺 YouTube: youtube.com/@servingsecond #ServingSecond #EthicalPersuasion #LeadershipPodcast #InfluenceScience #SecondChairLeadership #Cialdini #LeadershipDevelopment
	Vision is Easy - Execution Needs a #2! - E33	11 Jun 2026	00:39:05
What does it really mean to serve second with excellence? Toussaint sits down with Derek Fredrickson, founder of The COO Solution, to talk about the power of operators, COOs, chiefs of staff, and second-in-command leaders who help turn big vision into real execution. Derek shares how he left Wall Street to work alongside his wife in her successful business coaching company and discovered his gift for operations, systems, structure, and team leadership. He explains why the second-in-command role is not lesser leadership. It is strategic leadership. This conversation is for every leader who knows they are wired to build, organize, execute, finish, and make other people’s ideas work. Derek breaks down the role of a COO as the bridge between vision and execution. He explains why visionary leaders need operators who can create accountability, build structure, lead teams, protect focus, and help the organization move forward. One of the strongest takeaways from this episode is simple: the world needs great second-in-command leaders. Keywords Fractional COO, Leadership, Second in Command, Business Growth, Personal Development, Trust, Accountability, Entrepreneurial Success Takeaways Embrace your unique strengths and gifts to excel in leadership roles. Building trust is essential for effective team management. Assessments like Colby and Strengths Finder help clarify your innate abilities. A fractional COO can be a strategic bridge between vision and execution. Understanding your zone of genius unlocks greater impact and fulfillment. Sound bites "We are the ones that finish what others start." "The world needs us, and our unique gifts make a difference." "Assessments reveal your true wiring and strengths." Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Serving Second Podcast 02:18 Derek's Journey to COO 05:12 Working with Spouse: A Unique Dynamic 08:10 Understanding the Fractional COO Model 11:02 The Role of a COO in Business 13:41 Embracing the Second-in-Command Role 14:17 The Journey of Self-Discovery in Entrepreneurship 19:06 Building a Culture of Accountability 22:51 The Difference Between Average and World-Class COOs 28:44 Understanding Your Role as a Second-in-Command 32:29 Embracing Your Unique Strengths Resources Kolbe Assessment - https://www.kolbe.com/ Strengths Finder by Gallup - https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/home.aspx The CEO Solution Podcast - https://thecoosolution.com/podcast Derek Fredrickson on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekfredrickson/ guest links Website - https://thecoosolution.com/
	Building Generational Wealth - E32	05 Jun 2026	00:40:44
What if your money problem is not just about money? In this episode, Toussaint sits down with Albert Butler, CPA, to talk about financial literacy, family legacy, entrepreneurship, purpose, and the responsibility of building something that lasts beyond you. Albert brings nearly 30 years of experience in public accounting, private industry, entrepreneurship, and personal finance. But this conversation goes deeper than taxes and spreadsheets. It is about understanding your numbers, leading your family well, building a business with wisdom, and aligning your financial decisions with your purpose. Albert shares why “accounting is the heartbeat of business,” why every family should think like a business, and why legacy is not just about what you leave for your children, but what you prepare for your children’s children. Key Leadership Lesson Money is not the mission. Money is a tool. For second-chair leaders, entrepreneurs, pastors, business owners, and professionals, the deeper question is not just “How do I make more money?” The better question is, “Why am I building this, and who will benefit from it after me?” Albert reminds us that strong leaders do not just manage numbers. They manage responsibility. They think about family. They think about structure. They think about legacy. Albert’s Five Muscles of Enterprise Albert breaks down five muscles every business, leader, and entrepreneur must develop: Leadership - The vision, mission, goals, and objectives that guide the work. Operations = How the business flows day to day. Sales - How you take your product, service, or message to the market. IT Infrastructure - The data, systems, and information flow that protect and support the organization. Accounting - The heartbeat of the enterprise. Accounting tells the past, shows the present, and helps forecast the future. Practical Takeaways Have real money conversations with your children and family. Stop treating financial literacy as optional. Find a CPA before you are in crisis. Know what your tax return says about your financial life. Build your business around structure, not just passion. Lead with purpose, then let money serve that purpose. Write down your dreams and identify the one that keeps pulling you forward. Guest Info Albert Butler, CPA Website: AlbertButler.com Connect with Albert on social media by searching Albert Butler CPA. About Serving Second Serving Second helps leaders maximize the gifts they already have in the seat they currently occupy. This podcast is for second-chair leaders, assistants, associates, vice presidents, ministry leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone who wants to create first-place outcomes through service, skill, and excellence.
	Leadership in the AI Age - E31	29 May 2026	00:29:21
Most leaders think pressure reveals weak people. But what if pressure actually reveals weak team systems? In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams talks with Daria Rudnik about how second-chair leaders can build teams that click under pressure, navigate disruption, and stay human in the age of AI. If you serve behind the leader, carry team tension, or feel responsible for helping others succeed, this conversation will give you practical tools to lead with clarity, not control. Key Leadership Lesson The leader’s job is not to rescue the team. The leader’s job is to facilitate the conversations that help the team rescue itself. Daria makes the point clearly: outdated leadership says the leader must know everything, solve everything, and carry everything. Modern leadership requires something different. Leaders must create the conditions where the team can define purpose, build trust, make better decisions, share knowledge, and adapt together. For second-chair leaders, this is a powerful shift. You do not need the top title to strengthen the team. You can help create the conversations, systems, and clarity that allow the team to perform. Main Takeaways Daria identifies five elements that make a team “click”: Clear purpose A group does not become a team just because they report to the same manager. A team becomes a team when it has a shared purpose that cannot be accomplished by individual effort alone. Linking connections Strong teams build trust internally and understand their connection to stakeholders outside the team. Integrated work Teams need clarity around roles, norms, expectations, and how the work actually gets done. Collaborative decisions Healthy teams know which decisions belong to the leader, which belong to individuals, which require group input, and which can be delegated or automated. Knowledge sharing and feedback Teams must learn together, adapt together, and create feedback loops that help them improve over time. Keywords Leadership, Team Building, AI in Leadership, Global Work Experience, Authentic Leadership, Lifelong Learning, Team Dynamics, Second Chair Leadership Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:38 Building Strong Teams 06:46 Leadership in Stressful Situations 09:49 Navigating Challenges as a Woman in Leadership 12:55 Finding Your Authentic Leadership Style 15:59 Cultural Sensitivity in Leadership 18:45 The Role of AI in Leadership 21:44 The Clicking Framework 24:54 Final Thoughts and Resources 27:55 Recap Resources Clicking Book by Daria Rudnik - https://a.co/d/0anex6ak Daria Rudnik on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dariarudnik/ Daria Rudnik's Website - https://dariarudnik.com
	Stop Promoting Without Preparing - E30	21 May 2026	00:30:59
What happens when a great employee gets promoted into leadership, but no one has prepared them to lead? In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams sits down with Rich Ashton, author of Growing Your Own: Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders Within a Small Business, to talk about one of the biggest leadership gaps in small businesses and organizations: developing leaders from within. Rich shares lessons from more than 45 years in leadership and ownership of eight businesses. He explains why hiring from the outside can threaten culture, why loyal employees still need leadership training, and why some people are more effective and fulfilled as strong number twos rather than chasing the top seat. Keywords second-chair leadership, leadership development, small business leadership, growing leaders from within, Rich Ashton, Growing Your Own, Serving Second Podcast, leadership training, number two leader, executive leadership, internal leadership development, organizational culture, developing employees, relational leadership, leadership podcast Key Topics Covered How small businesses hit a leadership ceiling as they grow Why great employees are not automatically ready to lead The risk of bringing in outside leaders who do not understand the culture Why leaders should develop people to be themselves, not copies of the founder The importance of being a strong number two How transparency helps leaders have difficult conversations Why trust is built before the hard conversation happens How intellectual curiosity helps second-chair leaders keep growing Best Quotes and Takeaways “Just because someone is a good employee and loyal to you does not mean they can take the next step.” “If I couldn’t be the best number one, I could be the best number two.” “The number one role can be isolating and lonely.” “Trust is built through transparency.” “If you are not pursuing intellectual curiosity, get on board with one.” Why This Matters for Second-Chair Leaders Second-chair leaders do not have to spend their whole career trying to become a copy of the person in the first chair. Rich makes it clear that leadership growth starts with self-awareness, integrity, and the willingness to develop your own leadership voice. For some leaders, the goal is not always the top seat. Sometimes the greatest influence comes from becoming the trusted, capable, and grounded leader who helps the organization move forward from the second chair. Guest Information Guest: Rich Ashton Book: Growing Your Own: Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders Within a Small Business Website: growingyourown.net Email: rich@growingyourown.net Chapters 00:00 Welcome to the Serving Second Podcast 01:12 Why growing businesses need more leaders 02:54 The leadership ceiling in small businesses 04:01 How Rich’s book started as leadership blogs 08:10 Developing leaders, not copies of yourself 09:54 Learning from mentors and relationships 12:42 The power of being the best number two 15:21 Growing your own leadership team 17:35 Integrity and relational leadership 20:03 Handling difficult leadership conversations 22:39 Trust, transparency, and decision-making 26:09 Intellectual curiosity as a leadership habit 28:28 How to connect with Rich Ashton
	What's the Platinum Rule??? - E29	14 May 2026	00:31:14
What if high performance did not have to come at the cost of people? In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kathy Eastwood, CEO and creator of the E3 Leadership Code, to talk about what it really takes to lead from the second chair. Kathy brings years of experience as a Chief of Staff, Chief People Officer, COO, and leadership strategist. Her work focuses on helping leaders drive results while still building trust, engagement, and healthy team culture. Kathy shares why the Chief of Staff role became one of her favorite leadership assignments. She describes it as the work of taking a leader’s vision and translating it into tangible results. That is exactly where many second-chair leaders thrive. They may not always be the public face of the vision, but they often carry the responsibility of making sure the vision lands, moves, and gets executed. Leadership is not an either-or choice between results and people. Kathy challenges the idea that leaders must choose between delivering outcomes and caring for their teams. Her point is clear: you get better results by caring about your people. Takeaways Kathy explains that second-chair leaders often influence without direct authority. That means trust, clarity, and relationships matter more than control. She introduces her “FEUD” framework: fear, ego, uncertainty, and doubt. These are the barriers that often keep people from buying in and moving forward. One of the strongest moments in the episode is Kathy’s explanation of the Platinum Rule: treat people the way they want to be treated. This is a critical shift for leaders who assume their preferred communication style works for everyone. Kathy also breaks down the E3 Leadership Code: Express, Engage, and Execute, powered by emotional qualities. She explains that strong leadership requires vision, people engagement, disciplined execution, and the emotional intelligence to connect with people in a real way. Why This Matters for Second-Chair Leaders Second-chair leaders are often asked to carry the weight between vision and execution. They hear the leader’s message more than once, clarify what is being communicated, interpret what is landing with the team, and help translate big ideas into practical action. This episode is a reminder that the second chair is not a lesser seat. It is a strategic seat. It requires emotional intelligence, operational discipline, self-awareness, and the ability to influence people who may not report directly to you. Memorable Quotes “Leadership is not either results or people. It is both.” “You actually get your results by caring about your people.” “Logic does not move people. Emotions do.” “The number two role is taking a brilliant vision and translating it so it lands with each person.” Connect with Kathy Learn more about Kathy Eastwood, the E3 Leadership Code, and her work at kathyeastwood.com or on LinkedIn. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Kathy's leadership journey 01:51 The role of Chief of Staff in driving change 03:05 Innate skills and leadership style 04:15 The value of vision and repetition 04:59 The importance of diverse skills in leadership 05:56 Clarity and communication in leadership 09:27 Understanding the feud: fear, ego, uncertainty, doubt 10:36 Building trust and influence without control 13:12 The platinum rule: treat others as they want to be treated 17:22 The E3 leadership code: express, engage, execute 23:20 The five-week bootcamp and ongoing development 24:50 Applicability for all organizational levels 27:02 Creating a high-performance culture 29:14 Connecting with Kathy and resources

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