Dive into the complete episode list for The Panel. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.
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Title
Pub. Date
Duration
Eat Your Customer's Pain
19 Sep 2026
01:28:10
We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web?
Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job 09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth 14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for 19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked 22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature 27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool 31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded 35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat 45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM 58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good 62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy 77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo 81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next
Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder.
Chapters:
(00:10) - Welcome and Introduction
(00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers
(06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode
(11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews
(20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies
(38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One
(45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents
(59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates
(01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy
(01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business
(01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets
Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products.
More ambitious? Building things we wouldn't have before
21 Aug 2026
01:26:08
What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?!
Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro
03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot
11:49 - Claude fatigue and the shift toward chief-of-staff AI agents
14:55 - How product experience is replacing model quality in the AI race
18:09 - Cursor's speed advantage, pricing pain, and team switching costs
26:08 - Enterprise loyalty and why model quality will commoditize
43:44 - AI for autonomous entities, trust, and community integration
49:11 - Building AI-native vs. consumer vs. professional use cases
57:10 - Trust as the bottleneck in sensitive fields like personal finance
60:22 - Transistor's video launch, pricing model, and MCP integration
66:14 - Jordan's new capital deal and leveraging extra runway
72:12 - Customer success hiring and Builder Methods' non-developer expansion
Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations.
Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online 12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design 16:07 Market entry strategies for new products 19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models 23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects 28:03 The SaaS pocalypse 32:00 SaaS valuations and market dynamics 36:01 Designing simple interfaces with powerful backend features 39:59 The evolving landscape of SaaS and market opportunities 51:25 Opportunities in the current market 1:03:00 Life updates
How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm.
Timestamps: YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software?
Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to The Panel 00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip 03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car 05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing 07:20 What FlyWrite actually does 11:37 Building version one with Fable 16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow 28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping 36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity 39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode 48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting 58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war 63:28 Figma, design careers, and the white-flag mindset 74:08 What happens to agencies and web designers 81:05 Transition pain vs. long-term upside 90:13 Becoming AI-native and where do displaced workers go?
Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used.
Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:45 Taking control of your funnel 05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce 08:18 Optimizing the customer experience 19:10 Doubling sign-ups 23:08 Customer demand wins 25:34 Putting the credit card upfront 29:26 Customer demand and the funnel 31:56 Question your assumptions 35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy 44:14 Surviving survival mode 46:40 How we think about pay 49:00 Motivation and career growth 54:05 AI and developer ownership 01:00:54 Keeping the quality bar high 01:03:51 Building a culture of accountability
If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing?
Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics 06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel 17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs 26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space 42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise 01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism
I spend money. People see the product. They buy. We grow.
29 May 2026
01:10:58
After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction 01:19 Peptides and Supplements 08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts 14:02 Daily Walking 17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking 21:40 The Importance of Optimization 24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts 29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation 33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks 53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition 55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals 01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars
How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar.
Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to The Panel 03:06 Business Updates 05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI 11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics 17:45 The Future of Team Structures 20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams 25:48 The Future of Company Organization 27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity 36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI 40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape 45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path 48:20 Vertical Saas and tool building 01:01:17 Weeknd plans and talking politics
Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time?
Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels 08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads 12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch 21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth 30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics 35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools 01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout 01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development and Market Dynamics 01:13:48 The New Normal: Speed, Pressure, and Success in Business
Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined.
Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:28 Jason Cohen's Journey and Insights 04:18 Writing Process and Content Creation 10:24 Distribution as a Business Strategy 13:15 Debate on Distribution as a Moat 25:20 The Concept of Moats in Business 26:31 Social Media vs. AdWords: The Distribution Debate 32:09 Basecamp's Unique Positioning and Brand Identity 38:32 The Role of Brand in Modern Business 48:46 Understanding Customer Behavior Through Data 51:08 The Importance of Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) 57:35 The Challenge of End-to-End Funnel Visibility 01:07:00 Metrics and Their Role in Business Strategy
SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety?
Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, credibility with teams, and remote-team alignment. On distribution, they argue product and marketing are linked, and “hand-to-hand combat” on channels like Reddit, discuss ads and YouTube as ongoing systems, and highlight social proof via reviews (including Jordan’s use of Senja). Jordan shares using Claude to investigate the Allbirds deal and leverage personal networks to reach key deal participants, reinforcing founder curiosity and agency.
Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome 00:48 April Revenue Whiplash 02:11 Builder Methods Relaunch Fears 04:48 Daily Sales Mood Swings 05:59 Simplifying the Funnel 12:43 Trusting Founder Gut 27:21 Distribution in the AI Era 35:10 Practical GEO and Reddit Tactics 40:55 Customer Culture and Reviews 43:47 Engineering Social Proof 51:38 AI Investigates Allbirds Deal 01:10:49 Churn Through Weird Lens 01:15:59 Weekend Wrap And Skate Talk
Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction 03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation 06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life 09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Challenges 12:26 Navigating Sponsorships and Brand Deals 15:31 Exploring Video Podcasting and Market Demand 26:16 Navigating Pricing Models and Customer Expectations for Video Podcasting 31:27 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies 45:20 Understanding Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP) 01:00:34 Understanding Customer Segmentation 01:04:23 Navigating Customer Needs and Expectations 01:13:36 Pricing Power and Value Proposition 01:27:17 Shifts in YouTube Content Dynamics 01:33:12 Leveraging Content Clips for Growth 01:38:02 The Importance of Regular Content 01:42:20 Tim Cook's Leadership and Future Innovations at Apple
In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense.
Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools 07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy 10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics 13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in Business 16:36 The Future of Marketing and AI 22:39 Imagining Steve Jobs in the Age of AI 30:42 The Value of Struggle and Learning in a Tech-Driven World 39:58 Navigating Career Paths in an Evolving Job Market 45:50 Navigating Job Market Changes 50:16 Jordan explains The Allbirds Controversy 57:04 The Power of Attention in Business 01:02:29 Storytelling in Marketing 01:10:51 Building Relationships for Effective Distribution 01:15:11 Pricing Transistor's Video Strategy 01:23:42 Innovative Marketing Strategies and Anticipation Phases
CNBC: “Struggling shoe retailer Allbirds makes bizarre pivot to AI, adds $127 million in value”
Is "vision" overrated?
10 Apr 2026
01:33:12
Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news.
Timestamps: YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
Claude Mythos https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/
Owner.com https://www.owner.com/
Base44 https://base44.com/
Respite from the Dopamine Machine
03 Apr 2026
01:29:11
Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation.
Timestamps:
(00:07) - Introducing Ryan Hefner
(03:53) - Today's topic: how we choose our daily drivers
(04:54) - Updates with Justin
(08:54) - Update from Brian
(14:16) - Ryan's Launch week concept
(23:04) - The concept of daily drivers in life
(25:35) - Daily driver shoes
(29:58) - Daily driver IDE
(33:31) - Remote controlling Claude
(44:44) - Daily driver for AI
(50:09) - We often stick with a product even when a new one would be more efficient or helpful
Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions.
Timestamps:
(00:44) - Brian takes the lead
(02:17) - Opportunity costs
(17:29) - What is Brian's opportunity on Twitter?
(21:41) - Figuring out what Builder Methods is and who it's for
(24:53) - Should Brian hire someone to help achieve his goal?
(28:47) - How is AI killing Saas
(39:54) - People will want their own agent to use the softare, not a company's AI
What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decision-making in a 50/50 partnership, and why strategy has to belong to a key decision maker.
The conversation then spills into the "Mexican standoff" happening on teams as AI reshapes who does what and whether that's something to fear (or lean into).
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Introduction
(01:47) - Justin and Jon's founder retreat
(06:44) - Using video as an example of how to communicate with cofounders
(09:45) - It's not a marriage, it's a dictatorship
(12:12) - What do goals look like for a company?
(20:48) - Video is hard and heavy... should we do it?
(24:22) - What Jordan's done to help alignment on his team
(29:46) - What about Jon's side of the conversation?
(39:46) - Navigating new work dynamics with the speed of AI
(46:56) - There are smart developers resisting AI - why?
Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC.
Timestamps:
(00:18) - Welcoming Justin er Jordan back to the show
(02:48) - Companies that we're surprised aren't adopting AI tools
We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026.
Timestamps:
(00:46) - Our first announcement
(02:20) - Why are we bringing Jordan on as a co-host?
(06:51) - Why did Jordan want to join The Panel?
(14:48) - What's the new format for The Panel?
(18:29) - Is there a founder branding advantage?
(37:03) - How is AI going to affect Saas in 2026 and beyond?
(43:32) - How small teams can adapt easier than larger teams to AI
Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to The Panel's channel to get notified when we go live:
We'll be announcing: - A new ███████ ██████ ████ - And a brand new ████ ███████ - New livestream/recording time: Friday, 11 am Pacific - Livestreams will now be streamed from The Panel YT channel, not Justin's personal channel
Get to the sauna!
13 Feb 2026
01:24:40
Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all?
Timestamps:
(00:12) - Sick snow
(02:46) - Something big is happening here (AI edition)
(21:02) - Not having to be held down by legacy code speeds you up
(28:36) - Warnings to the non-technical world about AI
(45:35) - Humans have a hard time assessing their field of view in the future
(48:55) - This might be the most important year of your work
(51:12) - AI in education with kids
(56:05) - Seeing the world the way it is vs the way it was
(58:23) - Getting your financial house in order
(01:04:14) - The job market and the economy
(01:13:00) - Sometimes you have to play the game not on the field
Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok?
Timestamps:
(00:45) - What we're talking about this episode
(03:14) - Brian's OpenClaw setup
(11:57) - The cost of token usage with OpenClaw
(17:32) - What makes the memory better in OpenClaw?
(22:38) - What about Cowork?
(25:21) - Working with multiple agents in OpenClaw
(27:07) - The problem of Siri
(29:25) - The challenges of working is the same across AI or hiring
(31:28) - The importance of thinking of AI as an employee
(35:03) - What you'll miss by using AI instead of hiring a human
(44:14) - Why Justin thinks it's important to build fake products
(49:57) - Justin's app to publish a video as a podcast
(53:41) - Building a company to compete with yourself like Freshbooks
(55:39) - How might Transistor change bringing in new features?
(01:04:07) - Design OS updates
(01:09:01) - Why is Brian working all the time and feeling urgency?
(01:16:26) - Marketing for developers in 2026
(01:30:37) - Founder led marketing is key
(01:36:27) - Where are the real products being built with AI? Is AI actually speeding me up?
(01:46:31) - Do I need to make as much money as possible now?
"What happens when engineering outpaces marketing?" – Jordan Gal
16 Jan 2026
01:45:20
Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app?
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Welcome
(00:20) - Introducing Jordan
(01:34) - The world changed over the holiday break
(12:17) - The cost of making a making a mistake used to be higher
(25:38) - Get ready. This is not optional.
(28:34) - Senior engineers have to adapt
(42:18) - How do organizations and teams adapt?
(47:59) - What needs to change so rapidly about Rosie?
(55:08) - How AI has averaged marketing
(01:22:23) - What happens to funding for startups in 2026?
Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media.
Timestamps:
(00:07) - New year, new excitement
(01:40) - What has changed since the holiday break?
(06:18) - Is Justin going to republish Marketing for Developers?
(11:30) - Building a membership site in Ghost
(18:37) - How Justin might release the updated content and podcast
(24:42) - Focus on original instead of the average
(37:25) - How Brian used Claude to generate visuals for a course on Claude Code
(46:43) - If everyone is jumping on AI coding in 2026, how is Brian set up to meet the demand?
(01:00:56) - Prediction for 2026: Standing out from the crowd is going to be key
(01:05:31) - What's stressing Brian about social media in 2026
(01:09:36) - Partnerships are going to be very important in 2026
(01:11:01) - The new media will just become the media
(01:15:14) - OpenAI will fade from the lead position
(01:20:36) - AI adoption by normal people needs a better paradigm
(01:27:13) - AI in music and tv wont' be significant
(01:29:44) - The problem or the blessing of building even faster with AI in a year
(01:38:29) - Bootstrapping will become the norm again in 2026
(01:42:12) - Meta is going to have a big year in 2026
We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything?
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Does Transistor get quiet around the Xmas holidays?
(02:08) - Dealing with insecurity in business
(05:34) - The Panel in 2026
(07:09) - Looking back on 2025
(12:54) - What kind of person is going to do well in 2026?
(20:51) - Figuring out how to hand over decision making to junior developers
(28:10) - Remote work vs local work
(32:35) - Every business is a people business, every problem is a people problem, every solution is a people solution
(41:03) - We can make requests and we can have boundaries
(45:08) - What do I want?
(48:29) - Should Brian diversify his marketing funnel away from YouTube?
(01:05:06) - Building a cloud service for my products
(01:24:04) - Building Inbox Summaries
(01:28:27) - Rewriting for Marketing for Developers for AI
Do you worry about getting crushed by the competition?
05 Dec 2025
01:40:57
Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Get into it!
(00:47) - A founder has to worry about threats and opportunities
(17:55) - What got us here won't get us there
(28:42) - Why are trials increasing in 2025?
(34:20) - An update on Builder Methods
(40:11) - Deciding when to drop or maintain a project
(51:07) - People want AI on rails
(01:12:28) - 37Signals new product Fizzy
(01:15:52) - What's the benefit to open sourcing a project?
Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale.
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Follow up on last week's Justin mystery
(02:51) - Brian launching Filterhawk
(13:29) - How did Brian build Filterhawk in a week?
(26:32) - The refinement phase
(34:59) - Transistor's Black Friday sales
(44:34) - BuilderMethodsPro Black Friday deal
(49:34) - Brian's entering phase 2 of Builder Methods
(01:06:28) - Thinking about where we have gaps in knowledge of our customers
(01:09:45) - Thinking about marketing to teams and larger companies
Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress.
Timestamps:
(00:10) - Agenda for the episode
(02:19) - The future of The Panel
(16:18) - WE'LL DO IT LIVE!
(17:22) - Nadav Keyson from Riverside joins
(22:27) - How much should we think about our competition?
(26:15) - When did Riverside raise money and invest in content / SEO?
(28:42) - What were the keys to building a stable product in a competitive space?
(31:41) - What are the challenges ahead for Riverside?
(35:00) - How much is AI involved in writing Riverside's code?
(39:55) - Has Nadav's stress lessened as Riverside has grown?
(50:47) - Why should someone use your app? Why you?
(01:06:51) - Forming an opinion about the world vs finding demand for a solution
AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - What does Justin do all day?
(00:14) - Welcome to The Panel
(04:05) - The phases of startups
(20:04) - AI coding might be moving away from spec driven development
(27:52) - The future of products is shifting regularly
(31:46) - Building a website dynamically with AI
(46:41) - How much brand loyalty do we have in the age of AI?
Justin spoke to a grade 12 class about entrepreneurship, and was surprised by what he learned about teenagers.
Brian has thoughts on the impact of Agent OS v2.1 and struggles with the support burden of open-source software.
They talk about “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea." Also: Johnny Ive and Rivian founder RJ Scaringe's product design processes.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Now It's Time for The Panel
(01:30) - AI music creation
(05:45) - Segments update
(06:39) - Casel or Castle or ?
(07:55) - Justin's visit to a grade 12 entrepreneur class
(18:14) - What kinds of questions did the kids ask?
(23:31) - Projects that generate unwanted jobs
(40:25) - The relief of wealth DHH tweet
(56:19) - Jonny Ive and caring about design
(01:05:14) - Cheeky Pint podcast interview with Rivian founder
Aaron Francisjoins The Panel this week to talk about entrepreneurship, programming, and parenting. We chatted about how personal experiences shape our business journeys, the evolution of programming tools, and the importance of identifying market signals for success.
Timestamps:
(00:16) - Aaron Francis joins The Panel
(02:06) - How we're teaching our kids about programming?
(09:36) - The gap between AI code and design
(16:04) - How much AI are we using to write newsletters?
(20:22) - The web feels like it's back
(21:26) - Signals your business is working
(43:47) - Navigating when to pivot
(52:56) - What would you say to grade 12 class?
(01:12:26) - How to decide what product to work on next
(01:22:12) - Recording live streams of working sessions
(01:35:35) - Worrying about ideal customers vs just trying stuff
Justin is impressed with V0's ability to build working prototypes quickly. We've also got Sora 2 thoughts. And... what should we teach our kids when AI makes everything easy? Brian launches Agent OS v2. Could either of us survive without the internet for more than a day?
Timestamps:
(00:00) - This can be the show
(00:20) - Prototyping Transistor's episode creation UI in v0
(05:39) - Who would be working on this kind of project at Transistor?
(12:55) - Our thoughts on Sora 2
(21:00) - How will we be able to tell what's human creations vs AI?
(31:40) - Are kids growing up being too dependant on AI?
(49:30) - What motivates us is different for each person
(56:42) - Is building in AI the key to revenue?
(01:02:10) - How has the launch of AgentOS v2 going?
(01:06:47) - Customers pulling vs pushing to customers
(01:09:55) - Brian's thinknig around content for pro members
(01:16:15) - Could we survive in a cabin in the woods without internet?
Will vibe coding and AI give product people an advantage?
06 Oct 2025
01:48:54
Justin Jackson and Brian Casel discuss the evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, particularly in the context of AI's impact on product development, creativity, and the job market. They explore the importance of having a clear vision when using AI tools, the challenges faced by junior developers, and the enduring need for human connection in art and media. The discussion also touches on the future of work, the role of AI in enhancing productivity, and the implications for artists and creators in a rapidly changing environment.
Timestamps:
(01:48) - Vibe coding a marketing tool for Transistor
(11:23) - Coding with AI vs designing with AI
(18:35) - Is vibe coding a playground or for serious development work?
(24:57) - Negativity around AI and building
(46:24) - Artists and AI
(01:00:36) - Will we ever go back to the social days of Twitter
(01:08:34) - What are your Q4 goals? Do you think about end of the year business planning?
(01:31:27) - The importance of telling people what you're doing
Justin vibe-coded an app 5 minutes before recording this episode. Justin and the Transistor team just got back from Banff for their annual company retreat. How do these retreats actually work? What are they good for? Brian has some pretty good signups for Builder Methods Pro memberships! (How can he keep that momentum going?) He's also juggling Agent OS customer support.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Intro
(00:21) - Justin's been vibe coding again
(02:11) - Transistor's company retreat
(14:48) - The benefits of hiring a photographer for team retreats
(21:56) - Laying out the vision for Transistor
(25:23) - An easy way to tell how often you're shipping new features
(34:45) - Builder Methods workshop update
(41:31) - Selling annual subscriptions
(46:40) - The mixture of feelings around launching
(48:52) - The struggle of dealing with inbound messages
(54:47) - Figuring out how to help teams as well as individuals
(57:54) - What do Justin and Jon want next?
(01:16:08) - Should we think about our competitors?
(01:31:44) - Vibe coding vs AI assistant in the code
Business Dad, digital fatigue, Outro.fm, Builder Methods
12 Sep 2025
01:57:19
We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debate the value of community feedback and the potential for unforeseen opportunities in creating content online. Ian talks with us about the development of Outro.fm as an all-in-one solution for podcasters, the importance of building a membership community, the production side of podcasting tools, and the challenges faced in the podcasting market. Also: the difference between one-time sale products (courses) and SaaS.
Timestamps:
(00:06) - The pre-show is the show
(00:23) - Quitting Twitter
(06:19) - Redesigning his website with AI
(07:53) - Deciding on what a channel is for
(13:59) - Chasing views and likes
(20:58) - What are we up to this week
(29:36) - Why subscription and community vs team training and consulting
(50:32) - What should the premium content be for day one?
(57:08) - What is Outro.fm?
(01:15:04) - Who are Outro.fm's competition?
(01:21:47) - Selling sponsorships for podcasts as a product
(01:25:43) - The bet on how much revenue you'll get from your work
Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results?
05 Sep 2025
01:42:54
Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms?
Timestamps:
(00:20) - Preview of what we're going to talk about
(02:11) - Builder Methods Pro and AgentOS
(03:58) - The importance of human content in an age of algorithmic feeds
(25:55) - Connecting with people in real life
(33:52) - Zeroing in on Builder Methods revenue
(48:25) - Managing an open source project in public
(59:22) - The importance of enthusiasm in projects
Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more.
Timestamps:
(00:06) - We're back!
(00:59) - Brian's healthcare journey
(09:36) - Deep dive into Stripe Sigma and Transistor's history
(37:38) - Asking yourself the hard questions about your business
(42:12) - The value of taking a win now
(57:29) - What does Brian want with BuilderMethods
(01:14:35) - Rob Snyder's Pull framework
(01:30:48) - Can you do community well without the time commitment?
Should we be outsourcing customer support to AI chatbots?
18 Jul 2025
01:14:39
Justin is wondering whether AI customer support is worth it. Brian is navigating the emotional rollercoaster of YouTube. He's wondering whether he should pursue sponsorships as a revenue stream. Brian introduces Agent OS, a new development tool designed to streamline coding processes when working with AI tooling (which got a big reaction during the live stream).
Timestamps:
(00:33) - Justin's experiment with AI support chat bots
(15:20) - Do you want AI writing your responses?
(19:06) - Trying to figure out why Brian's latest video didn't work as well
(26:35) - How important is it to keep publishing every week?
AI and programming is a hot topic, and it feels like Brian has found that "founder/audience" fit where his interests align with a wave of audience interest. He and Justindiscuss their process for making YouTube videos. Justin also asks: "how do we ensure that our worst tendencies don’t bloom" when we're making products? (Founder retreats and masterminds come up). The big topic: Brian's not loving SaaS (anymore).
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Brian's YouTube journey
(04:29) - What Brian's hoping BuilderMethods could be
(08:26) - What does Brian's YouTube video script look like?
(10:59) - Why is AI so bad for YouTube editors?
(16:57) - One thing Descript really nails
(19:44) - How Steve Jobs ruined his early companies
(24:25) - Learning about your blindspots
(28:40) - Seeking connection in mastermind groups or conferences
(38:00) - How can we make sure we don't follow our worst impulses?
(42:23) - Zooming in on our battery: what gives us energy?
(53:00) - Getting alignment between what you love and what makes you money
(01:00:10) - What might not work for one person, can be a smash hit for another
(01:03:20) - What is the paid value of content lead companies?
(01:21:07) - There are business models that are difficult
It's Justin's turn in the hot seat to talk about what he's got in his buckets: which projects make the most money? Which take the most time? Where is he focused on breaking new ground? How does Transistor, The Podcast Standards Projects, and other projects he's got going all fit together? Plus: what kind of grit, desire, and resilience do you need to actually build a company that works?
Timestamps:
(01:09) - Why Brian will never join your Slack
(04:54) - What email client did Brian switch to?
(16:56) - Justin's matrix of boxes
(17:58) - What are Justin's boxes?
(19:54) - What is the Podcast Standards Project?
(28:57) - The benefits of working in the same place together
(35:49) - Pushing back on Justin's time allotement
(38:48) - What's the work in the investment portfolio?
(48:34) - Having the motivation and ability to commit
(58:24) - Running your own business + a family changes the calculations
(01:01:04) - Getting encouragment from simple projects
Brian Casel shares a first look at BuilderMethods.com. Brian dig into how he's going to grow an email list from scratch, and we had a great chat about what makes an email newsletter awesome.
The bulk of our chat was about honestly assessing the resources, time, and energy Brian is putting into each project, and how much revenue each project is producing. (Check out Justin's diagram here)
Timestamps:
(00:05) - We're back live!
(01:15) - What is BuilderMethods.com?
(04:04) - Brian's building a newsletter builder first
(08:17) - What makes a good newsletter?
(15:44) - Do videos work in email newsletters?
(20:00) - Next steps for Brian in the business: products to offer?
(22:17) - Offering consulting and coaching
(25:20) - Does it all feel overwhelming to take on?
(30:53) - Visualizing Brian's project's revenue vs time
(34:05) - Audience building vs Saas building
(41:56) - How excited is Brian about each project?
(58:14) - How do you quantify the time and revenue?
Brian's walking through the new website and idea he's launching and getting Justin's feedback on what he thinks will work and what could use refining, the struggle of creating video content in 2025, keeping course content fresh, whether another podcast is the best use of time, and whether targeting junior or professional software developers is the best route to go.
Timestamps:
(00:00) - What broke the internet?
(02:00) - Sports is heartache
(05:49) - The trouble with hosting video costs
(24:57) - What is Brian launching?
(35:13) - The struggle of creating video content
(37:48) - How are people finding the videos on YouTube?
(47:19) - What do we think about the revenue opportunities for Brian's idea?
(51:49) - Keeping a course and content fresh in 2025
(59:38) - Should Brian start another podcast?
(01:04:21) - Should I target junior or professional software developers with AI training?
Big episode! Brian shares the results of his launch of Instrumental Components (sales numbers, and how he's feeling). He also talks about his next project: helping devs and teams navigate how to use AI in software development and design. This episode was recorded live, with tons of folks joining us in the "panel" chat. Adam Wathan ended up joining us last-minute to talk about how he's changed is mind on AI and coding, and how AI is affecting Tailwind's business.
Timestamps:
(02:50) - What is Instrumental Components and how has the launch been?
(11:06) - Why not go for something big?
(24:26) - What you hear online vs the reality of what's going on
(29:24) - Pricing change for Instrumental Components
(34:04) - Where Brian's going next
(51:42) - Adam Wathan on how they're using AI
(01:06:14) - Writing PRD for AI instead of prompt writing
(01:09:39) - How is AI going to affect Adam's business?
Justin just got back from a big trip to London UK for the podcast industry conference, and honestly, it's got him thinking about some big thoughts about the podcasting medium. This episode starts out with an honest chat between Brian and Justin: 'How are you feeling about the podcast so far?'
Timestamps:
(00:06) - Just the two of us
(01:06) - The struggle with guests on a podcast
(10:33) - What if we did it live?
(16:46) - What's Justin been up to?
(20:28) - How does the shift in podcasting affect Transistor?
(24:50) - Justin's universal theory about podcasting
(39:51) - One reason Justin is hopeful
(43:42) - The pipeline problem is a big one for startups
(51:19) - How could Transistor work in a video podcast world
(57:53) - Why Justin is hopeful about Apple Podcasts