The Michael Shermer Show – Details, episodes & analysis

What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+.

In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation.

She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/:

October 8    Jacksonville, FL    Florida Theatre 
October 9    Newberry, SC    Newberry Opera House 
October 11    Huntsville, AL    Mars Music Hall 
October 12    Bristol, TN    Paramount Bristol 
October 14    Charleston, WV    Maier Foundation Performing Hall 
October 16    Stroudsburg, PA    Sherman Theater 
October 17    Morristown, NJ    Mayo Performing Arts Center 
October 18    Stamford, CT    Palace Theatre 
October 19    Concord, NH    Chubb Theatre 
October 21    Buffalo, NY    Electric City 
October 22    Columbus, OH    The Southern Theatre 
October 24    Pontiac, MI    Flagstar Strand Theatre 
October 26    Cincinnati, OH    Bogart's 
October 28    Chicago, IL    City Winery 
October 29    Indianapolis, IN    Clowes Memorial Hall 
October 30    Cleveland, OH    Connor Palace 
November 23 Livermore, CA    Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center 

Michael Shermer sits down with economist and Franklin descendant Dr. Mark Skousen to explore the wit, wisdom, and modern relevance of Benjamin Franklin, the man who bridged science, politics, and philosophy like no other. Shermer and Skousen discuss Franklin's contributions to science, moral philosophy, economics, and religious thought, while asking: What would Franklin make of today's America—its economy, politics, and culture?

Mark Skousen holds the Doti-Spogli Chair of Free Enterprise at Chapman University. Known as "America's Economist," he is the editor of Forecasts & Strategies, an award winning investment newsletter, and producer of FreedomFest, "the world's largest gathering of free minds." He is the author of over 25 books, incl. his latest, The Greatest American: Benjamin Franklin, The World's Most Versatile Genius.

Economist Dean Spears explains the forces driving global population change, from past fears of overpopulation to today's concerns about declining birth rates.

He contrasts the perspectives of biologists and economists on population growth and highlights the role of human ideas and innovation in sustaining progress. Spears also discusses misconceptions about zero-sum economics, the links between population, health, and economic well-being, and the rise of anti-natalism.

The conversation covers population size and environmental concerns, government policies on family planning, and why cultural attitudes toward reproduction may be as important as policy in addressing the challenges of a shrinking population.

Dean Spears is an economist, demographer, and associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin. Spears is a founding executive director of r.i.c.e, (a research institute for compassionate economics), a nonprofit that works to promote children's health, growth, and survival in rural India. Together with Michael Geruso, he is the author of the new book After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People.

For years as an award-winning war reporter, Sebastian Junger traveled to many front lines and frequently put his life at risk. And yet the closest he ever came to death was the summer of 2020 while spending a quiet afternoon at the New England home he shared with his wife and two young children. Crippled by abdominal pain, Junger was rushed to the hospital by ambulance. Once there, he began slipping away. As blackness encroached, he was visited by his dead father, inviting Junger to join him. "It's okay," his father said. "There's nothing to be scared of. I'll take care of you." That was the last thing Junger remembered until he came to the next day when he was told he had suffered a ruptured aneurysm that he should not have survived.

This experience spurred Junger—a confirmed atheist raised by his physicist father to respect the empirical—to undertake a scientific, philosophical, and deeply personal examination of mortality and what happens after we die. How do we begin to process the brutal fact that any of us might perish unexpectedly on what begins as an ordinary day? How do we grapple with phenomena that science may be unable to explain? And what happens to a person, emotionally and spiritually, when forced to reckon with such existential questions?

In My Time of Dying is part medical drama, part searing autobiography, and part rational inquiry into the ultimate unknowable mystery.

Sebastian Junger is The New York Times bestselling author of Tribe, War, Freedom, A Death in Belmont, Fire, and The Perfect Storm, and codirector of the documentary film Restrepo, which was nominated for an Academy Award. He is also the winner of a Peabody Award and the National Magazine Award for Reporting.

Shermer and Junger discuss: his near-death experience and his curent beliefs • NDEs and OBEs • hallucinations • altered states of consciousness • sensed presence effect • sleep paralysis • why there is no "proof" of an afterlife • living forever • belief in life after death • empirical truths vs. mythic truths • longevity and how to live longer.

Common ground is hard to find in today's politics. Many people, frustrated with a system demanding constant compromise, blame the Constitution for the discord. However, conservative scholar Yuval Levin argues that the Constitution is not the problem but the solution. In American Covenant, Levin blends engaging history with lucid analysis to reveal the Constitution's true genius and its power to facilitate constructive disagreement, negotiate resolutions, and forge unity in a fractured society. He also offers practical solutions for reforming malfunctioning aspects of the constitutional order.

Hospeful and insightful, American Covenant celebrates the Constitution's remarkable power to unite a diverse society, reassuring us that a less divided future is possible. Levin's work is rooted in the best of our political tradition, highlighting the framers' sophisticated grasp of political division and the Constitution's exceptional ability to foster unity.

Yuval Levin is the director of social, cultural, and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). He is the founder and editor of National Affairs and a senior editor at The New Atlantis. Levin's previous books include The Fractured Republic and A Time to Build. A former member of the White House domestic policy staff under George W. Bush, he lives in Maryland.

Shermer and Levin discuss: Trump assassination attempt: conspiracy or incompetence? • Biden cognitive infirmities and why the party can't replace him • Out of 340 million Americans why did we end up with these two guys? • why the country is more polarized than ever before • the unique genius of the founding fathers • The Federalist Papers • why the three branches of government—legislative, executive, judicial—were established • what the founders got right and what they got wrong.

In this episode, we explore the conspiracy theories surrounding the July 13 assassination attempt on President Donald Trump. Despite the evidence suggesting the shooter, Thomas Matthew Crooks, acted alone, numerous theories have emerged. These include claims that the Secret Service staged the event, foreign governments were involved, and the shooter was part of Antifa or backed by Never-Trumper Republicans. We delve into why such theories gain traction, examining cognitive and emotional factors like event magnitude, proportionality bias, anomaly hunting, personal incredulity, hindsight bias, patternicity, agenticity, uncertainty bias, and teleological thinking. While some legitimate questions remain unanswered, we emphasize the importance of applying the Conspiracism Principle: never attribute to malice what can be explained by randomness or incompetence. Tune in to understand why rational people often believe in irrational conspiracies.

Jay Bhattacharya is a Professor of Health Policy at Stanford University and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economics Research. He directs Stanford's Center for Demography and Economics of Health and Aging. His work focuses on the health and well-being of vulnerable populations, with a particular emphasis on the role of government programs, biomedical innovation, and economics. His recent research is on the epidemiology of COVID-19 as well as an evaluation of policy responses to the epidemic.

Shermer and Bhattacharya discuss: loss of trust in medical and scientific institutions • how well did lockdowns and masks really work • Lab Leak vs. Zoonomic hypothesis • hydroxychloroquine & ivermectin • debating anti-vaxxers, RFK, Jr., and conspiracy theories • myocarditis, Robert Malone, mRNA vaccines, Joe Rogan, Peter Hotez • The Great Barrington Declaration • the cost to the economy and education • which countries and states did better or worse.

Whole Foods Market's Cofounder and CEO for 44 years, John Mackey offers an intimate and provocative account of the rise of this iconic company and the personal and spiritual journey that inspired its remarkable impact.

The growth of Whole Foods isn't just a business success story—it's the story of a retail, cultural, and dietary revolution that has forever changed the industry and the way we eat. After more than four decades at the helm, John Mackey is ready to share never-before-told tales of the people and passions behind the beloved brand.

The Whole Story invites readers on the adventure of building Whole Foods Market: the colorful cast of idealists and foodies who formed the company's DNA, the many breakthroughs and missteps; the camaraderie and the conflict, and the narrowly avoided disasters. Mackey takes us inside some of the most consequential decisions he had to make and honestly shares his regrets looking back.

For the millions of people who know and love Whole Foods, Mackey's story is a candid look at the fellowship and meaning born of a shared mission and how an inimitable entrepreneur shepherded a startup hippy food store into the market-leading international brand it is today. John Mackey is an entrepreneur and the co-founder and visionary of Whole Foods Market. In his 44 years of service as CEO, the natural and organic grocer grew from a single store in Austin, Texas, to 540 stores in the U.S., U.K. and Canada, with annual sales exceeding $22 billion. Mackey co-founded the Conscious Capitalism Movement and co-authored a New York Times and Wall Street Journal best-selling book entitled Conscious Capitalism: Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business and follow up, Conscious Leadership: Elevating Humanity Through Business. He is also the co-author of The Whole Foods Diet: The Lifesaving Plan for Health and Longevityand The Whole Foods Cookbook: 120 Delicious and Healthy Plant-Centered Recipes. Mackey currently serves on the board of directors for Conscious Capitalism, The Motley Fool, CATO Institute, The Institute for Cultural Evolution, and Students for Liberty and is pursuing his next business venture, Love.Life.

Shermer and Mackey discuss: timing is everything: how the 70s shaped a natural foods empire • mentors, education, and the entrepreneurial spirit • scaling up: from a single store to a market revolution • challenging business norms: unions, salaries, and ownership models • food quality: private vs. government regulation • spiritual evolution: Christianity and Eastern wisdom to psychedelics • political transformation: co-op dweller to libertarian capitalist • the IPO experience: taking whole foods public • ultra-marathon hiking: pushing physical and mental limits.

Intrigued? Listen to John Mackey's fascinating story of personal growth and business innovation.

Aella is a writer, blogger, data analyst, and sex worker who has written extensively about the psychology and economics of online sex work, conducting extensive surveys and research in order to understand the ecosystem of sex workers. She grew up in Idaho as the oldest of three daughters of conservative parents who were part of a community of fundamentalist Christians, where she was homeschooled; their family name has been withheld in media coverage for privacy reasons. She moved out at age 17 after a fallout with her parents, and in 2012, after quitting a job as an assembly line worker in a factory, began working as a camgirl. She eventually became one of the highest-earning creators on OnlyFans, making over $100,000 in some months. By 2021, she was described as having set herself apart partly by conducting extensive market research, e.g. surveying almost 400 fellow female OnlyFans performers about their incomes and identifying factors that were correlated with higher earnings.

Shermer and Aella discuss: Aella's conservative Christian upbringing • sex work and feminism • male-female sexual psychology differences • why women are choosier and more risk averse • what men and women regret about sex • BDSM, fetishes, and sexual violence • the women who sell sex and the men who buy sex • agency and volition in sex work: women and men • virtual sex, phone sex, cyber sex • pornography: good or bad? • decriminalizing sex work.

Nathan Law is a young Hong Kong activist, currently in exile and based in London. During the Umbrella Movement in 2014, Nathan was one of the five representatives who took part in the dialogue with the government, debating political reform. Upholding non-violent civic actions, Nathan, Joshua Wong and other student leaders founded Demosistō in 2016 and ran for the Legislative Council election. Nathan was elected with 50,818 votes in the Hong Kong Island constituency and became the youngest Legislative Councilor in history. Yet his seat was overturned in July 2017 following Beijing's constitutional reinterpretation, despite international criticism. Nathan was later jailed for his participation in the Umbrella Movement. The persecution sparked global concern over Beijing's crackdown on human rights and democratic movement in Hong Kong. In 2018, Nathan and his fellow student activists Joshua Wong and Alex Chow were nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by U.S. congressmen and British parliament members. Due to the risk imposed by the draconian National Security Law, Nathan left Hong Kong and continues to speak up for Hong Kong people at the international level. In 2020, he was listed as one of the 100 most influential people in the world by TIME magazine. He is the author of the new book Freedom: How We Lose It and How We Fight Back.

Shermer and Law discuss: a brief history of Hong Kong • National Security Law • crimes of secession • how Asia's most liberal city changed so fundamentally • how rights and freedoms are won or lost • the truth: what it is and who owns it • reform society from within • freedom of speech • freedom of the press • the enemies of dictators • why democracies are fragile.