The Metrics Brothers – Details, episodes & analysis

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The Metrics Brothers

Ray Rike & Dave Kellogg

Business

Technology

Frequency: 1 episode/9d. Total Eps: 123

The Metrics Brothers is hosted by Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike. The Metrics Brothers provides unique insights, strategies, tactics, and metrics that are relevant to AI-Native software and SaaS companies.

Each 25-30 minute episode will cover a topic critical to leading a B2B software company, and chock-full of practical advice that can be introduced and applied in most Native-AI, Agentic AI, and B2B software and SaaS companies.

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https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1grmXygLbnlkQgTkcWeiLcJe4jHN4QD3Py6PCwsh1hsM/edit#slide=id.g2c4d1bbf6fe_0_0
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Score global : 63%

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The Impact of AI on Labor Productivity and Growth

Episode 110

Wednesday, February 11, 2026 • Duration 25:10

In this episode of the Metrics Brothers podcast, Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg tackle one of the most critical yet misunderstood metrics in the U.S. economy: Labor Productivity. Amidst the rapid rise of Artificial Intelligence, the "Metrics Brothers" break down how productivity is officially measured by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and why historical technology booms, from SaaS to Cloud, haven't always moved productivity growth as much as expected.

Key Takeaways: A deep dive into the ratio of economic output per hour worked, including what the BLS excludes (farms and government) and the nuances of white-collar labor tracking.

Historical Trends: A comparison of the post-war boom versus the "SaaS era," exploring why the last 20 years have seen a 66% relative decrease in productivity growth despite trillions in tech investment.
The AI Impact: Three potential scenarios for the future of work, from "exploding output" to "labor displacement," and why AI might fundamentally remake work in ways the Cloud never did.
Global Benchmarking: How the U.S. stacks up against leaders like Ireland and Norway in output per hour.

Why Listen? Whether you are a SaaS leader, investor, or white-collar professional, this episode provides a roadmap for staying on the "right side of the divide" in the upcoming AI-driven economic shift.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Brand Measurement Metrics and Techniques

Episode 109

Thursday, February 5, 2026 • Duration 26:55

Brand is one of the most powerful assets a company can build and one of the hardest to measure. In this episode of The Metrics Brothers, Dave “CAC” Kellogg, and Ray "Growth" Rike take on one of marketing’s most persistent challenges: how to measure brand in a world obsessed with direct attribution and near-term ROI.

The conversation starts with what a brand really is, originating from literal marks of ownership and evolving into a promise of quality, trust, and differentiation. From there, Ray and Dave explore why strong brands create pricing power, customer loyalty, category leadership, and long-term defensibility, even if those benefits do not always show up cleanly in dashboards.

They then break down practical ways to measure brand that align marketing and finance perspectives, including indirect valuation approaches such as brand value and goodwill frameworks, along with comparative metrics like direct and branded web traffic, share of voice, share of search, and inbound pipeline contribution. The episode also covers market research fundamentals including awareness, consideration, trial, and repurchase, and why dedicating a portion of your marketing budget to measurement is essential to sustaining brand investment.

Finally, the Metrics Brothers dig into brand measurement techniques that work in practice, including self-reported attribution, lift experiments, and analyzing sales conversations to see how brand shows up late in the buying process, often at the exact moment a deal is won.

If you have ever struggled to align brand investment with measurable outcomes, justify brand spend alongside demand generation, or connect long-term brand building to real business results, this episode provides a grounded, metrics-driven framework for doing exactly that.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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The 2025 State of B2B GTM Report

Episode 100

Wednesday, November 26, 2025 • Duration 25:36

For their 100th episode, Ray "Growth" Rike and Dave "CAC" Kellogg get philosophical, inspired by the notion that many hold, which is "nothing works" in B2B GTM anymore - especially in regards to pipeline development.

They dive into the 2025 State of B2B GTM Report by Kyle Poyar and Maja Voijc to challenge this idea and find out what GTM leaders are actually prioritizing.

In this episode, The Metrics Brothers break down:

The State of the Market: Analyzing a survey of 195 GTM leaders, including data on small companies, growth rates, and the surprising lack of correlation between GTM motion and growth.

The "Pipeline Crisis": Discussing why scaling existing GTM motions is the number one priority, even when many GTM leaders feel their current efforts aren't effective.

Too Much Noise: A look at the "distraction chart" [slide 12] showing the staggering number of channels and strategies B2B companies are trying, and why the report suggests this is "too much".

The Tried and True GTM Quadrant: Highlighting the activities with the biggest likelihood of impact, including Intimate Events, Intent-Based Inbound, and LinkedIn [slide 13].

The Winner Take All Future: Exploring the massive trend of investing in Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) [slide 18] and breaking down tactical recommendations for optimizing for ChatGPT and other answer engines, emphasizing the importance of facts and platforms like Reddit and G2 [slide 19].

Customer Lifetime Value - It's not that simple - SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers

Episode 10

Monday, August 21, 2023 • Duration 21:32

On this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss Customer Lifetime Value, and the different input variables required to calculate this compound, multi-variable metric.

The Metrics brothers discuss the following nuances of calculating Customer Lifetime Value

The basics - CLTV or LTV
Revenue or Gross Profit
Which number to use for churn in the formula (GRR, Logo Churn, all ARR or only available to renew ARR)
Which number to use for the Average Revenue Per Account (ARPA) - new customers only or all customers

If you love the nuances and details of SaaS Metrics - this is a thought provoking episode that highlights the important of gaining alignment of the CLTV and CAC metrics in your B2B SaaS company

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Usage-Based Pricing and CAC - The calculation impact is significant

Episode 9

Tuesday, August 15, 2023 • Duration 22:54

On this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss in detail how Usage-Based Pricing (UBP) impacts the calculation of Customer Acquisition Cost and it's efficiency derivatives including CAC Ratio and CAC Payback Period.

They discuss the three primary different types of Usage-Based Pricing Models including:

Pure usage-based or consumption-based pricing with no minimum commitments
Minimum commitment agreement that includes up to #x units and then overage $/unit over the minimum
Annual Subscription agreement to the platform and a $/unit of usage in addition to the annual subscription

Each of the above models can impact what is consider Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR), Variable Recurrring Revenue (VRR) and/or pure variable revenue - and that will accordingly impact the CAC efficiency metric calculation methodology.

If you love the nuances and details of SaaS Metric and how emerging GTM models impact traditional metrics calculations - this episode is for you!

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Product Led Growth and the impact on Customer Acquisition Cost

Episode 8

Tuesday, August 1, 2023 • Duration 23:36

The Metrics Brothers discuss how Product-Led Growth (PLG) including the use of Freemiums and/or Free Trials impacts the Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) calculation. Each PLG model may have different times to value, conversion rates to paid users, different definitions of when a free user becomes a customer which all can impact the CAC calculation formula and the resultant usefulness of the metrics

During this weeks episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss CAC Payback Period, and provide a little entertainment along the journey to using CAC Payback Period in your SaaS company.

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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CAC Payback Period

Episode 7

Wednesday, July 26, 2023 • Duration 22:16

The Metrics Brothers discuss the use of Customer Acquisition Cost Payback Period (CAC Payback Period). On the surface CAC Payback Period (CPP) is easy to understand, yet in practice there are many nuances and considerations such as using Gross Margin in the CPP calculation, and if CAC Payback Period is an efficiency, risk or return metric.

During this weeks episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss CAC Payback Period, and provide a little entertainment along the journey to using CAC Payback Period in your SaaS company.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Advanced Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC)

Episode 6

Tuesday, July 18, 2023 • Duration 27:38

The Metrics Brothers discuss advanced topics and uses of Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) and the CAC Ratio. On the surface CAC and CAC related metrics appear easy to understand, yet in practice there are many nuances, considerations and approaches to optimize the insights provided by CAC.

During this weeks episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss those advanced topics, and provide a little entertainment along the journey to using CAC in your SaaS company.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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CAC and CAC Ratio

Episode 5

Tuesday, July 11, 2023 • Duration 23:56

The Metrics Brothers discuss Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) and the CAC Ratio. The two metrics are closely related, yet are fundamentally two very different SaaS metrics.

During this weeks episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the value of each metric, when to use them and how to calculate each metric.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Pipeline Financial Return Measurements

Episode 4

Tuesday, July 4, 2023 • Duration 22:34

How do B2B SaaS leaders measure the financial returns on pipeline generation?

On the surface this question may seem quite simple, but one with that presents several options, especially when considering how a CFO evaluates return on investment.

The Metrics Brothers, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive deep into the nuances and considerations of pipeline returns on this week's episode of SaaS Talk™ with the Metrics Brothers.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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The Metrics Brothers – Details, episodes & analysis

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The Metrics Brothers – Details, episodes & analysis

Podcast details

Recent rankings

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Shared links between episodes and podcasts

Other30

TechCrunch2

Google Docs1

RSS feed quality and score

Publication history

Latest published episodes

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Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Related Shows Based on Content Similarities

Other30

TechCrunch2

Google Docs1