Could getting fired be the best thing that ever happened to you? In this deeply personal episode of The Messy Parts, journalist Brooke Baldwin sits down with Maryam to discuss her journey from heartbreak to healing after she was let go from her dream job at CNN. Brooke talks about speaking truth to power, walking through fear, and redefining success on her own terms. The two explore what happens when your identity is tied to your career — and how to rebuild when it all unravels. Whether you’re facing a layoff, a breakup, or a life transition, Brooke’s story will help you remember: sometimes losing it all is how you finally find yourself.

Key Moments:

Trusting Your Gut: When You Know Something’s Off
Brooke shares how that inner “spidey sense” told her something wasn’t right at work—and why we so often ignore it.

Kill Them with Kindnes💄
How politeness and perfectionism can hold women back and the high cost of always saying yes.

When Your Dream Job Stops Feeling Like One 💔
Brooke reflects on how the news industry changed, and how her joy slowly faded at CNN.

Being Sidelined and Staying Silent 🤐
What it feels like to be removed from your own job and how masking pain becomes a survival skill in corporate culture.

Speak Up (Before It’s Too Late) 🗣️
Brooke reveals what she wishes she’d done differently and how to find the courage to speak up with both grace and strength.

Fired but Not Free Yet 🔒
The truth behind her on-air goodbye, the NDA that silenced her, and the emotional toll of pretending everything was fine.

The Charade of the Perfect Life 🎭
Brooke connects her workplace silence to her childhood, where appearances mattered more than truth.

When It All Unravels: Career + Marriage 💥
Two major endings collide, and Brooke learns that sometimes losing everything can be the start of becoming yourself.

Make Your Own Money 💲
Brooke explains how saving money over the years gave her the freedom to bet on herself after she was fired and her marriage fell apart.

Healing at the Hoffman Institute 🌿
A week of deep emotional work helps Brooke find clarity, courage, and connection after loss.

Living Without the Armor ✨
Brooke embraces her natural self, her truth, and the “messy middle”—and reminds us that the mess is life, so we might as well surrender to it.

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Is your biggest mess also your best teacher? Broadway veteran Michael McElroy tells Maryam about his remarkable journey from rejection at Carnegie Mellon to leading Broadway casts and founding the award-winning Broadway Inspirational Voices. He and Maryam explore how to find purpose after burnout, the power of community and service, and what happens when you finally stop waiting for permission to begin. Michael opens up about identity, faith, and the messy truth behind resilience — reminding us that the hardest lessons can help us develop our greatest strengths.

01:30 – 🙏 The Son of a Preacher: Growing Up in a Life of Service
Michael reflects on his Cleveland roots, family faith, and how service shaped his art and leadership.

06:30 – 💔 From Golden Child to Rejection at Carnegie Mellon
Michael shares the painful story of being cut from his college program — and what it taught him about resilience and self-worth.

09:30 – 💪 The Do-Over That Changed Everything
With his mother’s support, Michael fought his way back into the program, learning how to turn pain into purpose.

14:00 – 🔄 Stop Reacting, Start Acting
Michael’s breakthrough moment — learning how to reclaim power by responding with intention, not reaction.

17:30 – 🎭 Teaching Life Through Art
 How Michael teaches young artists resilience, failure, and courage in an age of perfectionism.

19:30 – 💡 Breakthroughs and Busts
As Michael’s star climbs in NYC, he is also reminded how unpredictable the business can be and that he can’t attach his identity or his worth to his job.

26:00 – 🚀 Say Yes Before You’re Ready
Michael explains how leaning into side projects and passion work opened doors he never expected.

29:00 – ❤️ Healing Through Helping — Founding Broadway Inspirational Voices
The story behind his award-winning gospel choir and how service became a form of healing.

37:00 – 🔮 The Little Voice That Changes Everything
Michael describes the quiet inner voice that guided him to teaching — and how to trust your intuition when it’s time to pivot.

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Tony Awards, Grammys, a Pulitzer Prize, Emmy Awards. Next to Normal, If/Then, Hell's Kitchen, and NY State of Mind. Tom Kitt traded a Wall St. job offer (and paycheck) to follow his passion, a life making music, but that decision didn't come without great cost. He spent five years developing his first Broadway show, "High Fidelity," and it closed after just 10 days, sending him into months of depression and self-doubt. In this raw conversation, Kitt reveals how creative heartbreak became his greatest teacher, why collaboration and his relationships saved his career, and how saying "yes" to risky projects—including an epic pandemic Times Square performance—keeps him creating against all odds. From getting fired from his first music job to creating Next to Normal. Kitt's story is a masterclass in resilience. He shares hard-won wisdom about navigating brutal Broadway reviews, managing creative input overload, and why failure at any age can still become your greatest launching pad.

Topic Covered (with timestamps):

05:27 – The Morgan Stanley choice: Nine interviews and choosing art over finance 

07:19 – Early career struggles: Getting fired as a pivot moment 

09:49 – Meeting collaborators: Brian Yorkey and Rita's introductions 

12:18 – High Fidelity development: Five years from BMI workshop to Broadway 

16:41 – The garage band approach: Cabaret performances and producer discovery 

18:38 – When things go wrong: Boston reviews and Broadway closure after 10 days 

20:00 – Recovery and community support: Friends reaching out after failure 

21:14 – Next to Normal beginnings: Getting back on the horse 

22:16 – Saying yes during pandemic: Times Square performance and Billy Joel collaboration 26:05 – Billy Joel impact: Childhood hero and Emmy-winning "New York State of Mind" 

27:52 – Collaboration challenges: Working with long-time partners like Brian Yorkey 

29:32 – Managing creative feedback: Trusting audience reactions over individual opinions 

31:03 – Continuous learning: From SpongeBob to Shakespeare, staying curious 

33:03 – Artistic purpose: Creating physical reactions and inspiring others 

34:41 – Starting later in life: It's never too late, Billy Porter's example 

36:03 – Future dreams: Film scoring and musical television series 

36:24 – Rapid fire: Karaoke songs, reading list, and life advice

Mentioned: 

Hell's Kitchen, Jagged Little Pill, High Fidelity, American Idiot, Next to Normal, If/Then, “New York State of Mind”: https://www.nycnext.org/ny-state-of-mind

Brian Yorkey, Billy Joel, Billy Porter, Amanda Green, Jeffrey Seller, Kevin McCollum, Robin Goodman, Walter Bobbie, Green Day, Alanis Morissette, Times Square, 

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Feel like you're on the “wrong” path? Negin Farsad  (comedian, filmmaker, writer, actor, and activist) went from steady job as a NYC policy advisor to chasing laughs on lonely standup stages across the country.  As one of the few Iranian-American Muslim women in comedy, she’s built a career blending sharp political satire with deeply personal storytelling—using humor to tackle racism, sexism, and Islamophobia. From touring conservative towns with The Muslims Are Coming! to hosting Fake the Nation, Negin shares the messy leap from public policy to punchlines, turning passion into a paycheck, what it means to be a “social justice comedian,” and why she believes laughter is one of the most powerful tools for change.

Topics Covered: 

• Growing up Iranian-American in times of political hostility, and how early exposure to diversity while in Palm Springs shaped her worldview and comedic voice
• The leap from dual master’s degrees and a NYC policy advisor role to full-time comedy 
• Navigating initial disappointment from parents over career pivots before earning their understanding and support
• The pressures and trade-offs of turning a passion into a paycheck—and how that changes your relationship with the work you love
• Balancing motherhood, marriage, and career success while she and her husband both navigate “unstable,” gig-based artistic careers
• Using humor to challenge stereotypes, defuse protests, and reframe Muslim identity in American culture
• Diversifying her creative work across stand-up, film, writing, voice acting, activism, and unexpected gigs (including a psilocybin retreat)

Mentioned: 

• The Muslims Are Coming! (Documentary): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2788710/
• Once Upon a Mattress (Musical): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Mattress 
• Comedy Central: https://www.comedycentral.com/ 
• Homeland (TV Series): https://www.sho.com/homeland 
• Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me! (NPR): https://www.npr.org/programs/wait-wait-dont-tell-me/ 
• TED Talks: https://www.ted.com/speakers/negin_farsad 
• The Longest Table: https://www.longesttablecommunity.org/ 

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Ever feel like everyone else has it figured out while you're drowning in chaos? Sarah Personette's journey through Facebook, Twitter, and now Puck as CEO reveals the messy reality behind big-name success. She shares brutal truths about workplace bullies who wanted her gone, the isolating loneliness of leadership, and making gut decisions that horrified her father. From losing student elections repeatedly to navigating public failures at major tech companies, Sarah exposes how kindness became her secret weapon—not weakness, but a "structural force" that brought her back to three different companies. This raw conversation proves messiness and compassion can lead to extraordinary breakthroughs.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Sarah Personette, CEO of Puck

Follow Sarah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-personette-4b71125/  

Topics Covered: 

• The childhood challenges that shaped her resilience and risk tolerance
• Why losing multiple student elections didn’t stop her but from chasing leadership roles
• The career move her father called “the worst decision ever,” and why she took it anyway
• How trusting her instincts guided her from job to job 
• Navigating workplace hostility and choosing to lead for the many, not the few 
• Taking a “gap year” to explore, connect, and clarify her goals. 
• The importance of boundaries in balancing C-suite leadership with motherhood and marriage 
• The importance of having a strong value framework 

Mentioned: 

Puck: https://puck.news/ 

Writers at Puck: John Heilemann, Dylan Byers, Julia Ioffe, Matthew Belloni, Baratunde Thurston, and more

Starcom MediaVest Group: https://www.starcomww.com/ 

Facebook (Meta): https://www.meta.com/ 

Twitter (X): https://x.com/ 

Hidden Potential by Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/book/hidden-potential/ 

Rotary International: https://www.rotary.org/en 

Whispering Angel Rosé: https://www.esclans.com/ 

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What do Prince, The Secret, and Colleen Hoover have in common? They all worked with Judith Curr to publish their books. Judith's career has been quite a trip: from selling her brother's engine block to a junk dealer in a very small Australian town. to selling Dior to pharmacies door-to-door, to revolutionizing book publishing—founding Atria Books, discovering tomorrow's bestsellers today, and now steering HarperOne into uncharted territory.  From Sydney to New York, Judith has made a career of calculated risks and bold bets. Ready to peek behind the curtain of modern publishing? Judith spills on talent-spotting, industry shake-ups, and why the future of books is more exciting than ever.

Show Notes: Guest: Judith Curr, President and Publisher of HarperOne Follow Judith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judith-curr-a72b80/ Follow Judith on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/judithcurr/?hl=en

What You'll Discover:

• The career pivot that changed everything—from selling Dior lipstick to selling million-copy bestsellers
• How a gutsy move from Australia to New York launched her American publishing empire
• Inside the creation of Atria Books—the Simon & Schuster imprint that became a cultural force
• Her secret sauce for spotting breakout authors (hello, Colleen Hoover!) before they explode
• Why she fights for underrepresented voices—and how it's reshaping the industry
• Her vision for HarperOne's future in our AI-powered, globally connected world

Mentioned: 

Christian Dior: https://www.dior.com/en_us/beauty 

Simon & Schuster: https://www.simonandschuster.com/ 

Atria Books: https://www.simonandschusterpublishing.com/atria/ 

HarperOne: https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/harperonegroup 

HarperCollins: https://www.harpercollins.com/ 

The Secret by Rhonda Byrne: https://www.thesecret.tv/products/the-secret-book/

Countdown to Riches by Rhonda Byrne: https://www.thesecret.tv/countdown-to-riches/ 

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Irina Novoselsky landed her first CEO gig at just 32 years old. She’s now CEO of Hootsuite, a social media management platform with 16 million users in 175 countries. Even though her career has been a rocket ship, she’s had a lot of messy parts and pivots that’s shaped who she is and how she operates. That includes being out of work for months at a time and really questioning whether she was ever going to get a job again. If you’ve ever felt like you were on the wrong path entirely, this episode is a must-listen. 

Show Notes: 

Guest: Irina Novoselsky, CEO of Hootsuite

Follow Irina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/irina-novoselsky/

Follow Irina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/irinanovoselsky/ 

Topics Covered:

• Growing up as a refugee in NYC and embracing immigrant hustle
• Cold-emailing her way into investment banking at 19
• Leaving prestigious finance roles to find her passion
• Becoming a first-time CEO at 32—and the identity shift it required
• The power of relentlessness, self-belief, and learning out loud
• Why she leads with authenticity (and uses emojis unapologetically!)
• How social media became her leadership superpower
• Finding balance her way—and why she prioritizes sleep over everything

Mentioned:

Hootsuite: https://www.hootsuite.com/
Outlive by Peter Attia https://peterattiamd.com/outlive/

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Discover the real story behind Another Tomorrow with Vanessa Barboni Hallik, who left Wall Street for a mission in sustainable luxury fashion. In this candid interview with Maryam Banikarim on "The Messy Parts Podcast," Vanessa reflects on career pivots, making meaning from hardship, starting a business during COVID, and how purpose and authenticity drive her leadership. If you’re looking for a boost of inspiration, lessons for entrepreneurship, or an inside look at sustainable fashion, this conversation is unmissable.

Show Notes: Guest: 

• Vanessa Barboni Hallik, Co-CEO, Chair, Another Tomorrow
• Follow Vanessa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessabarbonihallik/
• Follow Vanessa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vanessaanabarboni/
• Follow Another Tomorrow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anothertomorrow/

Topics Covered: 

• Introduction & Vanessa’s early life: growing up in the Midwest
• Coping with family mental health & loss; the impact on resilience
• Shifting from architecture to economics & landing on Wall Street
• Facing imposter syndrome, self-editing at work, and defining success
• Quitting (three times): career pivots, asking for what you want, and lessons learned
• Discovering sustainability and building Another Tomorrow
• Launching a brand as the pandemic hit: how to survive a sudden crisis
• Meditation, slowing down, and evolving as a leader
• Redefining success, working with partners, and closing advice
• Rapid fire: favorite songs, reading list, surprising facts

Mentioned: 

• Another Tomorrow
• Morgan Stanley
• B Corp
• TM (Transcendental Meditation)
• Berkeley
• Cornell's program
• Farm to Closet model

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What happens after the dream job ends? In this deeply honest conversation, Maryam sits down with Fede García, who (in a matter of a few weeks) went from an award-winning Global Chief Creative Officer at one of the biggest agencies in the world to writing a vulnerable LinkedIn post about being fired. Together, they unpack the reality of ego, identity, burnout, and reinvention after “success.” Fede opens up about imposter syndrome, health battles, the creative grind, career pivots, and what it means to let go of titles and begin again—with joy, humility, and courage.

Guest: Fede Garcia

Follow Fede on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fedegarcia/ 

Topics Covered:

• Why he went public about getting fired
• LinkedIn’s performative culture vs. real storytelling
• Creativity and ego: navigating praise, loss, and self-worth
• Health, dialysis, and the impact of chronic illness on a creative career
• Global creative life: Buenos Aires → Tokyo → NYC
• Building vs. winning: What awards don’t tell you
• Starting over mid-career (and taking a ⅓ pay cut to do it)
• Beginner’s mindset: boxing, motorcycles, learning Japanese
• Leaving the agency world without bitterness
• Redefining success and finding joy beyond the title
• Advice for Gen Z creatives navigating a chaotic market
• The importance of taste, perspective, and patience in the age of AI
• The power of reflection, vulnerability, and owning your story

Mentioned:

Read Fede's original LinkedIn post (search under “Posts”)

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Saturday Night Live, Wicked, American Auto, Sugar & Booze, many lifelong friendships, and close family relationships are just a few of Ana's string of incredible accomplishments. It turns out none of it was easy.  As she says, "It's not for the faint of heart." Even though creating and preforming for a living is "intoxicating and beyond fun" it's also "miserable and challenging."

In this episode, Ana talks about how she gets over rejection in one night; how she's felt like an outsider her entire life (and used that to her advantage); why her best auditions were the ones where she was incredibly prepared and left everything on the table; how learning not to be afraid to talk about her own goals and aspirations seemed to make everything feel and work better; and the way the life balancing system she learned from none other than Martin Short helps to put everything in perspective for her.

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What happens when you try nine different schools and still don't know what you want to do? Vicki Freeman, co-founder of the Bowery Group, shares her winding journey from serial student to successful restaurateur. After searching for her purpose through child psychology, fashion photography, film school, and art history, she discovered her calling was right under her nose - in the restaurants where she'd been working to pay the bills. Her story is about the power of persistence, recognizing opportunities when they appear, and how sometimes the thing you're "just doing for now" becomes your life's work.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Vicki Freeman – Co-founder, Bowery Group (Five Points, Cookshop, Vic's, Shukette, Hundred Acres)
Follow Bowery Group on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-bowery-group/posts/
Follow Vicki on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vicki_freeman/?hl=en

Topics Covered:

• Going to nine schools while searching for her calling
• Working in restaurants as a "means to an end" while pursuing other dreams
• The Ralph Lauren breakthrough moment at age 19
• Her "looking up at the sky" epiphany in SoHo and the phone call that changed everything
• Opening Vic's: sudden success and devastating failure after one year
• Learning the business side at Columbus Bakery with ARC
• The innovative approach to raising money for Five Points (selling shares vs. big chunks)
• Building community through restaurants: being there for neighbors after 9/11 and during COVID
• The Shukette transformation: backing chefs and shared vision
• Working with your spouse in business: the challenges and magic
• Current challenges facing the restaurant industry post-COVID

Mentioned:

• Cookshop, Vic's, Shukette (Bowery Group)
• Missy Robbins (Lilia, Misi)
• Jonathan Waxman
• Russ & Daughters
• Ralph Lauren Restaurants

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What happens when you choose the "safe" path and it nearly kills your soul? Debra Martin Chase went from Harvard Law School to becoming the first Black woman producer with a major studio deal. In this episode of The Messy Parts, she shares her journey from corporate lawyer to Hollywood trailblazer, including the near-death experience that made her quit law, the weekend of initiative that launched her film career, and why Vernon Jordan told her she was "too old to start over." It's a masterclass in reinvention, taking risks, and betting on yourself.

Guest: Debra Martin Chase - Producer, Entertainment Executive, Broadway Producer 

Follow Debra on: 

• Instagram: https://tinyurl.com/bdhyj35x 
• LinkedIn: https://tinyurl.com/36zh39tz
• IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0153846/ 

Notable Productions: The Princess Diaries, Cinderella, Cheetah Girls, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, The Equalizer, A Strange Loop (Broadway), The Outsiders (Broadway), Purpose (Broadway)

Topics Covered 

• Harvard Law School
• USC Film School
• Vernon Jordan
• Nina Shaw 
• Frank Price (Columbia Pictures)
• Doug McHenry (producer)
• Nina Jacobson (Disney executive)
• Pearlena Igbokwe (Universal Television)
• Denzel Washington
• Whitney Houston
• Marc Platt (Broadway producer)
• David Stone (Broadway producer)
• Michael Dukakis campaign
• Princess Diaries
• Cinderella (Rodgers & Hammerstein)
• Cheetah Girls
• Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants
• The Equalizer
• Disney/Universal Television
• A Strange Loop (Broadway show)
• The Outsiders (Broadway show)
• Purpose (Broadway show)
• Wicked (Broadway show)
• SA Cosby (author)

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Jonathan Merritt was a pastor’s son destined to preach — until he was publicly outed online and his life imploded. When faith, identity, and ambition collide — what do you do? Jonathan knows that question intimately. But through the wreckage came clarity, courage, and an entirely new way of living. In this candid episode, Jonathan tells Maryam how losing community, career, and certainty opened the door to authenticity, spirituality, and a renewed sense of purpose. Whether you’re navigating a career change, questioning what you believe, or trying to rebuild after loss, Jonathan’s story offers hope that healing starts with honesty — and that being messy is part of becoming whole.

00:01:45 – Growing Up in a Mega Church World 🙏
Jonathan shares what it was like being the child of a famous Southern Baptist pastor — living under constant pressure to appear “perfect.”

00:03:45 – Always Knew I Was Different 🌈
Jonathan opens up about knowing from childhood that he was “different” — and how that difference was seen as dangerous in his community.

00:10:15 – The High of Being Seen 👀
Jonathan describes his early writing success and the addictive rush of external validation — and how it left him feeling empty.

00:13:30 – Feeling Trapped in My Own Life 🌀
He shares how fear, faith, and career expectations left him feeling stuck — and how that became a lifelong trigger for anxiety.

00:17:00 – Preaching What I Didn’t Believe 💔
Jonathan confesses that he preached sermons he no longer believed, torn between loyalty to his community and honesty with himself. He wonders what he really wants to do with his life, and how he might find the courage to make a change.

00:21:00 – Outed — and Everything Changed ⚡️
The moment that shattered everything: Jonathan is publicly outed by someone he considered a friend, and forced to confront his family, his church, and his identity. Standing before thousands, he tells his truth — learning that vulnerability can invite compassion, not condemnation.

00:27:45 – Courage Takes Time ✨
Jonathan gathers the courage to make the biggest change yet: he sells everything and moves to New York to pursue his writing career, a leap of faith that begins his rebirth and new life in alignment.

00:34:00 – Finding Light in the Darkness
Jonathan draws on his spiritual roots, explaining how there is always light in the darkness, and how this mindset can keep anyone from falling into a pit of despair — even through the hardest times.

00:45:45 – Messy Is the New Strong 💫
Jonathan reflects on why he trusts “messy” more than “perfect” — and how real strength comes from embracing imperfection and truth.

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Kass and Mike Lazerow sold their company for nearly $1 billion—and felt completely numb. In this episode of The Messy Parts, they share the brutal reality behind entrepreneurial success: kids struggling, health failing, friendships lost. Together with Maryam, they explore what radical transparency actually looks like when you strip away the corporate mask. It's a conversation about the hidden costs of achievement, the messiness of working with your spouse, and why showing your failures might be the most powerful leadership tool you have.

Guests: Kass and Mike Lazerow -- Entrepreneurs, Investors, Authors

https://kassandmike.com/

Follow Kass and Mike on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kassandmike and LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kassandmike/ 

Topics Covered:

• Personal stories of failure, discomfort, and growth
• The hidden cost of success
• Working with your life partner
• The parenting paradox
• What "radical transparency" actually looks like in practice
• The emotional and cultural risk of telling the full truth
• Creating a work culture where "messy" is normalized
• Why leaders are still afraid of vulnerability
• The power of being honest before the outcome is clear
• How storytelling can be a leadership tool—not just a communications tactic
• The difference between transparency and oversharing
• When to hold back (and how to do it without losing trust)

Mentioned:

• Kass & Mike’s book, Shoveling $h!t: A Love Story
• Mark Benioff (Salesforce CEO) 
• Gary Vaynerchuk 
• Phish (band) 
• eToro
• Northwestern University 
• Buddy Media 
• Golf.com

Further Reading:

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• The Power of Vulnerability – TED Talk by Brené Brown
• Psychological Safety in Teams – Google’s Project Aristotle – Research on why speaking up matters at work.
• The Tell by Amy Griffin
• Articles about Cambridge Analytica
• Dying for Sex documentary

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Cindi Leive has shaped the media world—from her tenure as Glamour's editor-in-chief to co-founding The Meteor. In this intimate conversation, she joins Maryam to talk about losing her mother young, surviving the “command and control” culture of Condé Nast, and building something new from the ground up. They explore the messy parts of starting over, raising kids in a digital age, the loneliness epidemic, feminism under fire, and why collaboration always wins. Cindi shares the lessons she’s learned (and is still learning) on how to stay hopeful, stay human, and rewrite the rules without losing your why.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Cindi Leive – Journalist, Editor, Co-founder of The Meteor

Follow Cindi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cindi_leive/?hl=en

Topics Covered:

• Her lifelong passion for magazines (and what 17 Magazine meant as a kid)
• Growing up with a single mom scientist—and losing her at 19
• Compartmentalization, grief, and building self-sufficiency
• What Condé Nast taught her (and what she had to unlearn)
• Leaving Glamour at its peak for something riskier
• How The Meteor began in Gloria Steinem’s living room
• Feminist storytelling in a fraught media landscape
• Raising resilient kids in the age of AI and loneliness
• Lessons in entrepreneurship, imperfection, and asking for money
• Why joy and collaboration matter more than perfection
  
  

Mentioned:

The Meteor (feminist media collective)

Night of Solidarity, a Meteor special

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Katie Sturino is no stranger to reinvention—from fashion PR hustler to viral dog-momager to founder of Megababe and author of the new romcom Sunny Side Up. In the premiere episode of The Messy Parts, she joins Maryam to talk about building a self-funded brand, the real struggles behind the Instagram gloss, and how letting the "messy parts hang out" can be your superpower. They talk all things Ozempic, Oprah, body image, revenge-fueled motivation, and working with family. Katie also opens up about her purpose: helping women stop feeling bad alone—and start feeling powerful together.

Show Notes: 

• Guest: Katie Sturino – Entrepreneur, Author, Founder of Megababe
• Follow Katie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/?hl=en
• Follow Katie on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino

Topics Covered:

• Why revenge is her greatest motivator: "Success is the ultimate revenge"
• Moving to NYC and relentlessly pursuing her dream job at Chanel
• Making her dog Toast Instagram-famous and recognizing unexpected opportunities
• Starting 12ish Style blog after discovering the power of body representation
• Creating Megababe: solving problems no one talks about (thigh chafe, boob sweat)
• Working with family: benefits and challenges of business partnerships
• Writing "Sunny Side Up": transforming pain into a romcom after 9 years
• Meeting Oprah and sparking a national conversation about weight stigma
• The messy reality of entrepreneurship that podcasts don't share
• Dreaming big without limits and trusting your gut

Mentioned:

• Chanel
• Dolce & Gabbana
• Megababe Products
• Toast (her famous dog): DogMeetsWorld
• 12ish Style blog
• "Sunny Side Up" (her novel)
• Today Show
• Oprah Special: Shame, Blame and the Weight Loss Revolution
• Target
• Weight Watchers
• Ozempic
• Ina Garten’s book, Be Ready When Luck Happens
• The Longest Table

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Whether you’re at the top, or striving to get there—you may have noticed the one thing people rarely talk about: how hard it is to achieve success. The Messy Parts is the answer—a podcast where you’ll hear about the twists, turns and pivots that shape extraordinary careers. The real messy parts along the way. Host Maryam Banikarim has been through it, so she gets it. Maryam has been a transformative leader across media, hospitality and tech. Her powerhouse resume features more than 20 years in the C-Suite at companies like Hyatt, NBC, and Nextdoor—and she has a vast, influential network to match. On The Messy Parts, she brings you unparalleled access to that network. Deeply honest, vulnerable conversations with Maryam—who is never afraid to ask the questions on everyone's mind. Join us as we get real, unfiltered, and messy.

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At 22, Jaclyn Johnson landed her dream magazine job — until she realized it paid less than her rent. That rejection set off a chain of bold decisions: launching a fashion blog, being sued by a former employer, losing a job she moved across the country to take, and eventually starting her own PR/branding agency. Jaclyn tells Maryam how she turned fear into fuel and turned Create & Cultivate from a side hustle into a brand she eventually sold for $22 million. 

Along the way, she learned what women aren’t taught and don’t discuss in business, why women sometimes don’t support one another professionally, and the magic that can happen when they do. Jaclyn doesn’t sugarcoat the toll success can take — panic attacks, burnout, isolation — but she also shows how failure, when faced head-on, can be the greatest creative act of all.

Key Moments

*  “You can’t eat makeup.” Learn why saying no to underpayment was the first bold move that shaped Jaclyn's multi-million-dollar career. 

* If you want to run your own business, you need to understand every role first. An early magazine internship taught Jaclyn Johnson a lesson most entrepreneurs miss: sales runs the show. She realized editorial might look glamorous, but it’s marketing and revenue that keep the lights on — and that knowing how every piece fits together is what makes a great founder. 

* Her advice for anyone just starting out: believe in yourself enough to show up. You might not be the expert today, but you can be tomorrow. Confidence comes from action, not perfection.

* Being the Squeaky Wheel Can Get You Fired — And Set You Free. Jaclyn Johnson shares how being the one who questions, challenges, and moves too fast ultimately got her fired… and turned out to be the best thing that could’ve happened. Her story is a reminder: sometimes getting fired just means you’re meant to be your own boss

* Jaclyn shares the turning point when Create & Cultivate went from side project to full-blown brand. After one breakout event, major clients started reaching out — and she realized the momentum was real. Encouraged by a mentor to bet on herself instead of building for others, Jaclyn took the leap and never looked back

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Think your biggest breakdown means you’ve failed? Journalist Danielle Belton was hospitalized multiple times for bipolar disorder while she was building her career. In this powerful episode, she opens up to Maryam about a childhood riddled with anxiety, falling into a deep depression after a failed marriage, and drinking tequila at work to power through panic attacks. Danielle hit rock bottom in her mid-twenties and moved home to her parents basement, where she started over and got a job folding sweaters at Macy’s. She tells Maryam how writing an anonymous blog during Barack Obama’s first presidential campaign led to other jobs that ultimately landed her a dream gig — editor-in-chief at HuffPost — and why she eventually walked away from it. Determined to defy the mental illness stigma, Danielle promised herself she’d live publicly with her illness no matter what. A raw, honest conversation about mental health, ambition, and resilience for anyone who’s ever thought their worst moment ended their shot at success.

Key Moments

00:00 – Danielle shares her promise to be open about bipolar disorder to show others there’s life after diagnosis.

02:30 – She reflects on her anxious childhood, feeling old before her time and misunderstood by other kids.

10:00– Danielle opens up about leaving a toxic marriage and reclaiming her ambition.

11:30 – Danielle describes the physical ways her anxiety started to manifest

13:00 – A raw confession about masking panic attacks with alcohol during her early reporting career.

15:00 – The first of four hospitalizations for bipolar disorder — a turning point in accepting she needed help.

20:00 – After her breakdown, Danielle describes the humiliation of moving back to her parents’ house and starting over — but also the seed of her comeback.

22:30 – Her anonymous blog goes viral after Obama wins Iowa, launching her back into journalism.

25:00 – A doctor’s advice pushes her to balance ambition and self-care as she tiptoes back into the working world

33:00 – At The Root, Danielle battles depression but still rises to Managing Editor, proving high-functioning illness is complex.

36:00– Danielle explains why she left her job as Editor-in-Chief of HuffPost to protect her team.

40:30 –  Danielle’s closing advice: feel your pain, but don’t live there. Remember who you are, and gamble on yourself.

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What if everything you were told about building a career was wrong? Financial expert and host of The So Money Podcast, Farnoosh Torabi, gets raw about the messy reality behind her success—from being forced to give up her dream schools to avoid debt, to getting fired twice, to drowning in $300K of business debt that forced her to sell her home.

This isn't another "hustle harder" story. It's an honest conversation about the fears nobody admits: waiting for permission that never comes, taking rejection personally, feeling naked without a job title, watching friends with trust funds lap you, and chasing definitions of success that aren't even yours.

If you've ever felt paralyzed applying to hundreds of jobs, ashamed about a layoff, or terrified of financial dependence, this one's for you. We're talking about the career stuff nobody warns you about—and what actually helps when things fall apart.

You're not failing. The game just changed and nobody told you.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Farnoosh Torabi, a financial expert, bestselling author, and host of the "So Money" podcast and “The Montclair Pod.”

Learn More About Farnoosh: https://farnoosh.tv/

Follow Farnoosh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/farnooshtorabi

So Money Podcast: https://podcast.farnoosh.tv/

The Montclair Pod: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-montclair-pod/id1785567683

Topics Covered: 

• The Debt-Versus-Dreams Trap
• The Comparison Trap on Social Media
• The Paralysis of Permission-Seeking
• The Rejection-Is-Death Mindset
• The Job Application Black Hole
• The Financial Dependence Fear
• The "Shiny Object" Definition of Success
• The Layoff Shame Spiral
• Ending a Job Without Closure 
• Entrepreneurial Debt Disaster

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Brian Kelly (aka The Points Guy) has been obsessed with credit card and frequent flyer points since childhood. At age 12, his dad challenged him to book a family vacation using only points, and young Brian successfully got his entire family to the Cayman Islands for free.

Fast forward to his twenties, and his credit was ruined. He had to resort to payday loans. As he says, "I was in survival mode." He walked to work because he couldn't afford the subway fare. His boss had to give him a raise just so he could dry clean his suits. Kelly understood he needed to solve his problems, so he tried various side hustles to make ends meet.

One of those side hustles was starting a blog called The Points Guy. In a single day only a short time after he began the blog, Kelly made $125,000. Six months later, he hit his first million. Somehow, this hobby-turned-side-hustle had made him a multi-millionaire at 28 years old.

It was a challenging, messy road. In this discussion, Kelly reveals the reality behind his meteoric rise: the toxic friendships, the fraudulent interior designer who stole from him, and the loneliness that comes with sudden wealth. He shares hard-won lessons about leveraging relationships, knowing your superpowers, and why most career decisions aren't actually binary. This is the unvarnished truth about building an empire from nothing.

Key Takeaways From This Episode

Identify Your Strengths and Double Down: When Brian realized he couldn't compete on analytics with Ivy League graduates, he focused on what he was best at - relationship building - which became his competitive advantage throughout his career.

From Financial Rock Bottom to Millions in Months: Brian went from taking payday loans and walking to work to making $125,000 in a single day through affiliate marketing - showing how quickly fortunes can change with the right strategy.

Turn Your Biggest Expense Into Income: Brian transformed his company's travel expenses into personal profit by volunteering to put all recruiting trips on his credit card, earning massive points while helping colleagues.

Side Hustles Can Scale Beyond Your Day Job: What started as a $500-1000/month blog became a million-dollar business in six months - Brian shows how to test ideas without quitting your main income source.

Leaving Jobs on Good Terms for Future Opportunities: The Points Guy stayed three extra months at Morgan Stanley to properly transition his responsibilities, maintaining relationships that served him throughout his career.

Research Hiring Managers, Not Just Job Requirements: Brian's interview success came from connecting personally with interviewers rather than just reciting qualifications - he'd research their backgrounds to find common ground.

Build Senior Mentors as Career Insurance: When a colleague tried to sabotage him, Kelly's senior mentor at Morgan Stanley protected his job - proving high-level relationships are essential career protection.

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If you’re job hunting, eyeing a promotion, or just feeling burnt out—this conversation will remind you that your path doesn’t have to be traditional to be powerful. 

From bossy kid to bold career coach, Sam DeMase is redefining what leadership and success really look like—with empathy, authenticity, and purpose. 

In this episode, Sam shares her unconventional journey: from managing 70 people at a fast food chain straight out of NYU to building a business that empowers women to ask for more—more money, more respect, and more balance.

Shaped by her experiences with toxic bosses, anxiety, and corporate pushback, Sam empowers others to navigate their careers with confidence, clarity, and self-trust.

We dive into bridging generational gaps, debunking myths about Gen Z, and why empathy is essential in today’s workplace. Sam introduces “parallel pivoting,” the power of side hustles, and how to turn nontraditional paths into professional superpowers.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Sam DeMase, Career Coach, author, and public speaker public speaker with a fast-growing community of 800,000+ followers on social media

Follow Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samdemase/

Follow Sam on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@apowermood?lang=en

Follow Sam on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apowermood/

Topics Covered: 

• Growing up with strong female role models
• Being called a bossy kid was her being a leader
• A good manager means showing up authentically, making connections and having empathy
• Working for One Fine Day, she moved into HR and found her superpower in people
• Parallel Pivoting
• Find your superpower - ask your friends/family and take assessment tests
• Messy Part of management is letting friends down if you can’t make change or firing people
• Sam bridges the gap between Gen Z and Gen X
• Sam starts a side hustle and gets written up for urging people to fight for equality
• Social Media as a job - being authentic garners the right audience and clients
  • Not forcing yourself to push through, and instead being honest makes people feel seen 
• Job hopping is common - what matters is your impact at a company, not amount of time
• Journey with anxiety and depression showing up in insomnia and trouble breathing
• Side hustles are a great way to build your dream career while having security 
• Dealing with Toxic Bosses - document everything and focus on communicating what will make your work better

Mentioned: 

Gap, One Fine Day, NYU, Columbia, StrengthsFinder Assessment, Clifton Strengths, authenticity, leadership, HR, TikTok, Instagram, ZipRecruiter, Forbes Business Insider, NBC Time, toxic bosses, Anxiety, Depression, Generation divides

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What happens when your toxic business partnership implodes and nearly 20 years of work vanishes while you're getting your hair done? Gwen Whiting, co-founder of The Laundress, opens up about the brutal reality behind building a successful brand, selling it to Unilever—and watching everything she created collapse.

In this raw conversation, Gwen reveals how early tragedy shaped her resilience; surviving on credit cards for over a decade; why her career path was not marriage; and the devastating moment she became "the adopted child nobody wanted" after acquisition. From being dismissed as "too small to care about" to rebuilding what she believed was a tarnished legacy, Gwen shares the messy truth about starting over.

If you've ever felt like you're building on shaky ground or wondered if you have the strength to rebuild after betrayal, this episode will remind you that sometimes losing everything reveals your true strength.

Topics Covered: 

• Armoring up and fighting for myself. 
• Acting authentically/not transactionally, being honest.
• How to do very uncomfortable things and while knowing that your result isn't always gonna be good (and it may even hurt), and then go back the next day and do it again. 
• Relationships are the key to my success.
• My career path was not getting married.  I wasn’t going to marry myself off.
• Lesson learned: have your own financial independence Keeping control, 
• What gave me confidence
• White man chinos: my worst nightmare.

Show Notes

Guest: Gwen Whiting, co-founder, The Laundress, founder, The Fill

• Follow Gwen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gwenlwhiting/
• Follow Gwen on Substack: https://thelaundrylist.substack.com/
• Follow Gwen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gwenlwhiting/?hl=en

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Job opportunities in her industry faded away slowly and then all of a sudden. So Emma Rosenblum committed to her side hustle and found a way to pivot into a new career altogether – she wrote a book.  A literary agent rejected it as "too mean,” but she found a way through. Then, when her manuscript accidentally leaked to her real-life community (the location of the book) with real residents' names still in it, the small-town drama was intense. Now a full-time novelist obsessively checking LinkedIn daily, Emma reveals how her competitive nature and insider-outsider perspective fuel both her satirical writing and her ongoing anxiety about what comes next.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Emma Rosenblum, Author, Editor in Chief

Follow Emma on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-rosenblum/

Topics Covered

• Anxiety, Financial Insecurity, Health Worries, Motherhood, Work-Life Dramas, Side Hustles, Writing and Publishing, Being Competitive

Mentioned

Glamour Magazine, New York Magazine, Elle Magazine, Bloomberg, Bustle/Bustle Digital Group, Google, CAA, Meta

Kevin Kwan, Lucy Foley, Alexandra Machinist, Sarah Jessica Parker,
Natasha Bedingfield, Allison Roman, Carlos Alcaraz 

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How do you turn fun into a career? In this honest, funny, and inspiring episode of The Messy Parts, celebrity event planner Marcy Blum tells Maryam how she went from living on a failed commune in Vermont to organizing lavish celebrations for LeBron James, Kevin Bacon, and countless billionaires, and why “fun” is her most powerful business strategy. Along the way, Marcy opens up about sexism in the culinary world, building her brand without a blueprint, and finding purpose after burnout. It’s a story of creativity, survival, and joy — the messy kind that makes a life worth celebrating.

Key Moments

🎭 From Bronx Kid to Performing Arts Dreamer
How a bold teenager chased art, broke expectations, and followed her creative instincts.

🏡 The Commune Years: Learning the Hard Way About Belonging & Failure
The Vermont commune experiment — and the messy lessons it left behind.

🍳 From “Let’s Make a Deal” to Le Cordon Bleu
How depression, a mother’s push, and Paris changed everything.

👩‍🍳 Breaking Barriers in a Male-Dominated Kitchen
Being one of the first women at the CIA — and facing sexism head-on.

 🍽️ From Miserable Chef to Accidental Entrepreneur
The bizarre lunch that led to her first big break — thanks to Ed Koch.

💡 Reinvention & Risk: How Marcy Accidentally Invented Wedding Planning
The Tony Robbins insight that pushed her to quit misery and start her business.

💰 The Pricing Wake-Up Call: Why It Took 25 Years to Stop Undervaluing Herself
Marcy’s candid money talk: from flat fees to millionaire weddings — and learning her worth.

🥂 The Queen of Fun: Turning Every Party Into Living Theater
How she brings joy, surprise, and connection into every event — even for billionaires.

– 💬 Real Talk: Boundaries, Asking for Help & The Power of the Specific Ask
Why vague “pick your brain” requests don’t work — and how to ask for help with confidence.

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Kelly Kopp, is now known as “New York City Kopp,” influencer, photographer, tour guide But at 40 years old, Kelly lost everything—his house in the mortgage crisis, his restaurant job, his health (without insurance), and watched his best friend, Sandy, die of cancer. Sitting poolside in Orlando contemplating how people reach their breaking point, Sandy's death became his wake-up call to "go live." He moved to New York City with just a suitcase, discovered photography, and built a social media empire as "New York City Kopp." This raw conversation explores how devastating loss can become the catalyst for reinvention, the power of laser focus, and finding joy in the most unexpected places.

Topic Covered 

The Years "Wasted" Doing What You Were Supposed To Do: Working as a manager in Orlando for about 8 years before his pivot.

The Economic Earthquake You Didn't See Coming "I bought a house in Orlando... I ended up losing the house. And that was the beginning of the domino effect."

When Your Body Sends An Invoice Your Career Can't Pay At 40, Kelly experiences chest pain and stress, goes to ER without health insurance, ends up in cardiac unit for a week with tests and a blockage scare requiring a stent.

The Compound Crisis That Breaks The Formula: "It was just so stressful. I lost my job. I lost my house, I'm in the hospital... Everything was against me... I didn't think things could get worse, but they continued to get worse."

When Loss Doesn't Care About Your Deadlines: "She got diagnosed with cancer and it was quick from diagnosis to her passing away... it was a huge, huge impact on me."

The Crisis That Makes You Understand Why People Just Stop

The breaking point: "There was a point where I was sitting at the edge of my pool looking in the pool thinking... I could understand how people could get to the point and be like, I just can't do it anymore."

The Terror Of Reinventing Yourself When You "Should Have Figured It Out By Now." 

Being Your Own Hype Man When You're Running On Empty: "Sometimes I do have to motivate myself... I'll read some motivational books or something... watch something that's motivational... that'll kick me out of this little bit of a funk."

The always-on problem: "In the back of my mind I'm thinking I could do a video right now... It is challenging because... I'm like, hold on one second. I just gotta do a quick photo. I gotta do a quick video."

Show Notes: 

Follow Kelly on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newyorkcitykopp/#

Follow Kelly on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newyorkcitykopp

Follow Kelly on TikTok: https://www.instagram.com/newyorkcitykopp

Kelly Kopp Tours: https://newyorkcitykopp.com/

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This week, we are looking back at some of the most powerful, hilarious, and vulnerable moments from The Messy Parts. We created this episode with Hark Audio, gathering the standout clips that define what this show is all about: embracing the chaos and finding strength in the struggle.

Whether you are new to the podcast or a day-one listener, this compilation features the wisdom you need right now. We revisit these conversations and more:

• Negin Farsad on finding the humor in social justice and the "messy" side of comedy.
• Fede Garcia on navigating communication and the power of perspective.
• Vanessa Barboni Hallik on the complexities of sustainable fashion and ethical leadership.
• Cindi Leive on redefining power structures and her journey through the media landscape.
• Ana Gasteyer on how you make your aspirations your identity

Tune in for a dose of inspiration, laughter, and real talk.

Links: Check out Hark Audio: https://harkaudio.com/ 

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We're going back to our first episode: Katie Sturino is no stranger to reinvention—from fashion PR hustler to viral dog-momager to founder of Megababe and author of the new romcom Sunny Side Up. In the premiere episode of The Messy Parts, she joins Maryam to talk about building a self-funded brand, the real struggles behind the Instagram gloss, and how letting the "messy parts hang out" can be your superpower. They talk all things Ozempic, Oprah, body image, revenge-fueled motivation, and working with family. Katie also opens up about her purpose: helping women stop feeling bad alone—and start feeling powerful together.

Show Notes: 

Guest: Katie Sturino – Entrepreneur, Author, Founder of Megababe

Follow Katie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/?hl=en

Follow Katie on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino

Topics Covered:

• Why revenge is her greatest motivator: "Success is the ultimate revenge"
• Moving to NYC and relentlessly pursuing her dream job at Chanel
• Making her dog Toast Instagram-famous and recognizing unexpected opportunities
• Starting 12ish Style blog after discovering the power of body representation
• Creating Megababe: solving problems no one talks about (thigh chafe, boob sweat)
• Working with family: benefits and challenges of business partnerships
• Writing "Sunny Side Up": transforming pain into a romcom after 9 years
• Meeting Oprah and sparking a national conversation about weight stigma
• The messy reality of entrepreneurship that podcasts don't share
• Dreaming big without limits and trusting your gut

Mentioned:

• Chanel
• Dolce & Gabbana
• Megababe Products
• Toast (her famous dog): DogMeetsWorld
• 12ish Style blog
• "Sunny Side Up" (her novel)
• Today Show
• Oprah Special: Shame, Blame and the Weight Loss Revolution
• Target
• Weight Watchers
• Ozempic
• Ina Garten’s book, Be Ready When Luck Happens
• The Longest Table

Send us Fan Mail

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Thank you for listening.

What does it really take to build a career across Saturday Night Live, Broadway’s Wicked, network TV, and music? In this re-release of one of our favorite episodes of The Messy Parts, Ana Gasteyer joins Maryam Banikarim to reveal the messy, unglamorous parts of showbusiness — like rejection, insecurity, and feeling like an outsider. Ana turned those realities into fuel for her creativity, and tells Maryam about the power of radical preparedness in auditions, why naming her goals out loud shifted everything, and how Martin Short's life-balancing method helps her navigate the chaos of life. Whether you’re an actor, artist, writer, or anyone chasing a creative dream, Ana’s insights on resilience and reinvention will resonate deeply. A warm, hilarious, and refreshingly honest conversation about ambition, belonging, and showing up for the life you want.

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Is your path too messy for success? In this episode of The Messy Parts, Maryam talks to Rafat Ali, founder of Skift and one of the most quietly influential figures in digital media. This feels like a personal conversation, Rafat opens up about the parts of his journey most people never hear: stuttering as a teenager, feeling like an outsider in America, breaking down during intense life changes, and rebuilding through resilience. Maryam guides Rafat through the unexpected threads that connect his life — curiosity, delayed gratification, instinct, and the belief that nonlinear careers often lead to the most meaningful destinations. From surviving the collapse of his industry to navigating the COVID shutdown and a banking crisis, Rafat offers real insight for anyone struggling with uncertainty.

Show Notes: 

✍️ Stammering to Storytelling: How Writing Became His Superpower 

The childhood stutter, expanding vocabulary, and discovering writing as expression.

🌍 From India to Indiana: Culture Shock, Baywatch & Belonging 

Rafat’s honest story of early loneliness, identity, and adjusting to America as a Muslim kid.

🎙️ Why Push Through? Rafat on Life Phases & the “Two-Year Rule” 

How he decides when to persist vs. pivot — a core framework for careers and reinvention.

💼 B2B Influence > Fame: Choosing a Niche and Owning a Sector 

Why Rafat sought influence over money—and how niching down fueled his career strategy.

🧭 Contrarian Thinking & Global Lens: Seeing What Others Miss 

How being an outsider shaped his instincts, travel philosophy, and entrepreneurship.

🔁 Career Compounding: Staying Put to Accelerate Growth 

His philosophy on long careers, loyal teams, and why job-hopping kills momentum.

🌐 Influence Over Money: Why Rafat Chose Impact, Not Income

Rafat reveals the driving force behind his entire career: the pursuit of influence—not wealth

👨‍👩‍👧 Family, Legacy & Belonging: The Emotional Skift India Forum 

The powerful story of bringing his mother to his Delhi conference and finally being “seen.”

💥 When Everything Breaks: COVID, SVB Collapse & Leading Through Panic

Inside the near-death business moments—money running out, tears, resilience, and action.

 🧠 Mental Health, Compartmentalizing & the Breakdown That Changed Him 

Rafat opens up about his recent mental health crisis, adopting a baby, and learning limits.

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Is it possible to be successful, exhausted, uncertain, and stuck — all at the same time? In this episode of The Messy Parts, former Pfizer communications chief Sally Susman joins Maryam on the blue couch to get real about fear, ambition, burnout, and what it really takes to grow. From being told she’d never have a career after coming out, to leading Pfizer during COVID, to leaving corporate life behind, Sally shares the messy, human moments that shaped her leadership. She talks about the risks of playing it too safe, losing identity when a job ends, and why breakthrough moments rarely arrive when you feel “ready.” This isn’t a highlight reel — it’s a real conversation about pressure, reinvention, and learning to trust yourself through change. If your career looks good on paper but feels heavy inside, this episode will help you feel less alone. 

Key Moments

“Be Ready — You Don’t Know When It’s Coming” ⏳
Sally reflects on COVID and shares her core career philosophy about preparation and unexpected breakthrough moments.

Growing Up With Privilege AND Pressure 🎭
Sally explains what it was like being raised in an ambitious, high-expectation household.

“You’ll Never Have a Career” 💔
Sally shares the moment she came out to her parents — and the sentence that reshaped her entire life trajectory.

“Nothing Scared Me After That” 🔥
How that painful family moment became the foundation of her courage and leadership confidence.

Leaving Government for Corporate America 🏛️➡️🏢
Why Sally walked away from politics — and what frustrated her most about “doing good” in government.

“My Heart Was in My Throat” 😰➡️💪
Sally explains why fear is her signal for growth — and how discomfort became her career compass.

Walking Into Pfizer’s Reputation Wall 🧱
The moment Sally realized just how deep public distrust of Big Pharma really ran.

COVID Changed Everything 🌍
Inside Pfizer’s pandemic pivot — opening labs to media, sharing trial protocols, and racing against time.

Finding Her Voice on the Global Stage 🎙️
How Sally went from behind-the-scenes operator to public-facing leader during the crisis.

Hiring a “Senior Intern” After Watching a Movie 🎬
The unconventional idea inspired by The Intern that became a Fast Company cover story.

Leaving Corporate Life Was Harder Than She Expected 🚪
Sally opens up about identity loss, comfort traps, and preparing for her off-ramp.

“I Was Too Transactional” — Career Feedback That Stung 🪞
The tough 360 review that changed how Sally approached relationships at work.

Advice to 35-Year-Old You: “Worry Less” 🌱
Sally’s direct message to stressed professionals navigating pressure and self-doubt.

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At what point does a side hustle stop being a hobby? On this episode of The Messy Parts, Marla Aaron tells Maryam the exact moment she realized she could no longer hedge her ambition. What began as a creative outlet eventually became a full-fledged business, but not without years of doubt, rejection, and financial anxiety. In this episode, Marla and Maryam explore the tension between security and risk, why waiting to feel “ready” is a trap, and how fear can coexist with clarity. They also talk about loneliness, creativity, social media as an unexpected unlock, and what it really takes to start over later than planned.

Key Moments

“So Happy. Not Scared at All.” 😮
Marla describes the emotional moment she finally quit her corporate job and why relief outweighed fear.

Becoming Comfortable With Discomfort 🌍
Marla connects her childhood independence and studying abroad at 17 to her lifelong willingness to take risks.

Graduating Into a “Bad Job Market” 📉
Why Marla believes focusing on opportunity matters more than economic doom narratives for young professionals.

“I’m Scared of Everything.” 😬
A candid conversation about fear, impostor syndrome, and doing hard things anyway.

Choosing Money Over Passion (At First) 💼
Marla explains walking away from journalism due to low pay and financial anxiety.

Fired, Divorced, and a Single Mom 💥
The emotional and financial rock bottom that forced Marla to keep moving forward.

The Boring Job That Funded Creativity 🔄
How working a job she didn’t love gave her space to build her dream at night.

A Hobby With a Dream 💭
How Marla quietly built her jewelry business at night while working full-time and raising a child.

“Everyone Told Me I Was Insane.” 🔥
The Cannes turning point: burnout, injury, rage, and the final decision to quit.

“This Is Not a Hobby.” 🚨
The pivotal boardroom moment when a CEO unknowingly pushed Marla to fully commit.

Instagram Unlocks the Business
How learning social media from her kids helped Marla grow a global direct-to-consumer brand.

The Loneliness of Building Something Alone 🧍‍♀️
Marla opens up about the isolation that comes with entrepreneurship and leadership.

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Mickey Drexler built the Gap into a $15 billion empire, created Old Navy, helped redefine J.Crew, and shaped American retail culture. And then? He was fired. No warning. No thank you. Just a card, a sentence, and a door. In this episode of The Messy Parts, Maryam sits down with Mickey to talk about what actually happens when you do everything “right” and still get pushed out. They go deep on instinct vs. pedigree, why big companies break good people, how to recover from a public exit, and the price of loyalty in a system that doesn’t always return it. This conversation is for anyone who’s ever felt underestimated, overlooked, or like they were building something real while everyone else chased politics. If you’ve ever asked yourself, “What do I do now?” — you’re in the right place.

Key Moments

From $400 Million to $15 Billion
How Mickey Drexler scaled Gap into a global powerhouse — and why he still hates the word “turnaround.” 📈

“Adversity Is the Advantage”
Growing up in the Bronx, losing his mother young, and how hardship shaped his drive. 💔➡️🔥

Why Mickey Trusts People With Hard Stories
Why he’s drawn to people who’ve struggled — and what today’s work culture gets wrong. 🧠❤️

“Business School Is a Waste of Time”
Mickey explains why he thinks degrees, grades, and pedigrees don’t equal instinct or success. 🎓🚫

The Shy Kid Who Became a CEO
Mickey opens up about insecurity, introversion, and growing into leadership later in life. 😶➡️👔

The $500 Salary Moment That Changed Everything
The quiet injustice early in his career that taught him how systems really work. ⚖️💸

“You Feel It Before It Happens”
Mickey describes the instinctual moment he knew he was about to be fired. ⚠️🧭

Fired After 18 Years… With a Card
How Mickey Drexler was let go from Gap — no warning, no thanks, just a sentence. 🧾💥

“It Was a Gut Punch”
Processing rage, humiliation, and self-worth after a public corporate exit. 🥊😞

Is There a Right Way to Fire Someone?
Mickey explains how leaders should handle endings — and why most fail. 🪑🤝

Betting on People: Why Jenna Lyons Mattered
How choosing the right creative partner helped rebuild J.Crew — and what talent really looks like. 🎨✨

Advice for Anyone Starting Out Today
“Hire your boss. Trust your instinct. If it doesn’t feel right — walk.” 🚪➡️🌱

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Sojin Lee has built startups, helped scale Net-a-Porter, won fashion industry awards — and watched businesses collapse. In this candid conversation, she opens up to Maryam about public failure, ambition addiction, and choosing love over everything else. From early executive days in luxury fashion to launching ahead-of-its-time ventures, Sojin shares hard lessons about risk, ego, shame, and survival. She talks about losing major clients, navigating market crashes, and confronting identity when success disappears. This episode is for entrepreneurs, founders, and professionals facing career pivots, burnout, or reinvention. If you’ve ever tied your worth to achievement — or wondered who you are without the title — this conversation is for you.

Key Moments

00:00 – The Myth of Growth Through Failure 💥
Sojin reacts to the idea that “growth comes from failure” — and why that’s easy to say but brutal to live through.

02:12 – Raised to Be Responsible, Not Seen 🌏
Growing up Korean, the eldest of four, constantly translating and adapting — and how that shaped her identity.

05:18 – The ‘Joy Luck Club’ Leadership Complex 🍽️
Why giving away the biggest piece can turn into over-functioning at work — and quiet resentment.

08:05 – Control, Data & the Need for Certainty 📊
Why Sojin gravitated toward analytics in fashion — and how control became her survival strategy.

13:42 – The Love Story That Changed Her Career ❤️
Choosing Net-a-Porter wasn’t just ambition — it was a move driven by love and personal priorities.

19:55 – From 5th Row to Front Row at Fashion Week 👠
The scrappy early days of Net-a-Porter and the moment the industry finally took them seriously.

30:38 – Ahead of Its Time… Then It Collapsed 📉
Launching Fashion Air (early live shopping + UGC) — and watching it fall apart during the recession.

34:05 – The Shame of Public Failure 😶‍🌫️
Why she couldn’t read the press coverage about her startup’s collapse — and the saving-face instinct.

36:45 – When Success Becomes Addictive 💰
How financial wins and big exits unlock a hunger for more — and why that can be unhealthy.

38:52 – COVID, Market Crashes & Losing It Overnight 🌪️
Winning the LVMH Innovation Award — then losing major clients and investor backing during global chaos.

41:08 – “200 Coffees”: The Comeback Strategy ☕
Her practical reset plan: set a mourning deadline, ask for help, and book 200 coffee meetings.

45:05 – Adapt or Fall Behind: Why AI Is Non-Negotiable 🤖
Sojin’s blunt advice for professionals and founders navigating the next wave of disruption.

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Gary Vaynerchuk opens up to Maryam about fear, self-esteem, forgiveness, AI, leadership, and what he believes is a growing crisis of “late adulthood.” Gary shares why so many professionals feel stuck — not because of burnout, but because of insecurity and unresolved resentment. He breaks down his philosophy on kind candor vs. radical candor, why fear is the real career killer, and how over-coddling may be delaying independence for an entire generation. From parenting teenagers to leading thousands of employees, Gary explains why self-worth is the operating system behind success — and why forgiveness (especially of yourself) might be the most underrated personal development tool of all. If you’ve ever felt behind, afraid to pivot, or unsure of your next move in the age of AI, this episode is for you.

Key Moments

Forgiveness Is the Answer We’re Avoiding ❤️‍🩹
Gary opens with a bold claim: most people are emotionally “clogged” because they’re holding resentment. He explains why forgiveness — especially forgiving yourself — may be the most underrated growth tool.

“Nice Guys Finish First” 🏆
Gary unpacks the tension between competitiveness and kindness — and why he believes you can be fierce in business without losing your humanity.

The Late Adulthood Crisis 🚨
Are we raising adults who aren’t ready to be adults? Gary shares his controversial take on over-coddling, privilege, and why independence matters more than ever.

Why He Doesn’t Fear AI (And You Shouldn’t Either) 🤖
Using historical pattern recognition, Gary explains why AI is just the next evolution — not the apocalypse.

The Self-Esteem Conversation Nobody Wants to Have 🧠
Gary breaks it down: almost everything — career fear, content paralysis, insecurity — comes back to self-worth.

The Rejection He Was Actually Afraid Of 💔
Despite fearless business moves, Gary admits he was afraid to ask girls out in high school. A revealing look at how fear shows up in unexpected places.

Kind Candor vs. Radical Candor 🎯
Gary shares his leadership “kryptonite” — struggling with candor — and why he now believes honest feedback must come with kindness.

Walking Away From the Family Business 🏪
After building his dad’s liquor store into a $65M company, Gary explains why leaving wasn’t guilt — it was growth.

Maximizing Joy vs. Maximizing Money 🔥
Why Gary doesn’t optimize for profit alone — and how curiosity drives his many ventures.

Call Your Mom. Forgive Yourself. 📞
One of the most emotional moments of the episode. Gary urges listeners to make the call — to forgive others or themselves.

At What Age Do You Stop Blaming Your Parents? 🧨
Gary poses a provocative question: when do you fully own your life? A raw discussion about responsibility and adulthood.

The Jets Jersey Story 🧵💚
Gary shares the powerful story of his mom knitting him a Jets jersey when they couldn’t afford one — and how that shaped his confidence forever.

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What happens 48 hours after you get fired? For Melissa Ben-Ishay, it was the beginning of Baked by Melissa. But this isn’t just a startup success story — it’s a conversation about rejection, imposter syndrome, and learning to own your voice. Melissa reveals to Maryam how she built a cupcake brand from her apartment, rode the subway making deliveries, and still didn’t believe she deserved to be CEO of the company that bears her name. She shares the pressure of being the face of a brand, the loneliness of leadership, and why confidence must be earned through experience. If you’ve ever struggled to ask for help, felt unworthy of your title, or wondered whether to take the opportunity in front of you — this episode will hit home.

Key Moments

She Thought She Was Getting Promoted, Then Got Fired 💔
Melissa walks into HR expecting good news — and leaves without a job. What she does in the next 48 hours changes everything.

48 Hours After Getting Fired, She Starts a Business 🚀
Still crying, still in shock — her brother says, “Let’s start a business.” No plan. No funding. Just cupcakes. Here’s how fast it moved.

Delivering Cupcakes on the Subway (Feeling Like a Fraud) 📦
She’s gluing logos onto pastry boxes in her apartment, while pretending she’s a real company. Inside, she’s thinking: Who do I think I am?

The Imposter Syndrome Nobody Saw 😳
The brand was growing. Orders were coming in. But privately, Melissa felt completely undeserving of her own success.

Her Brother Was CEO for 8 Years — Not Her 👀
The company had her name on it, but she wasn’t in charge. Why didn’t she think she was worthy of leading it?

The Founder Meltdown (Phone Thrown Against the Wall) 📱
Family tension. Leadership clashes. Emotional overload. This is the messy side of building something with people you love.

“Melissa Will Be CEO.” (She Didn’t Feel Ready.) 😰
With a baby at home and zero warning, the board names her CEO. She’s up all night questioning everything.

“Why Didn’t I Think I Deserved This?” 🎤
Melissa confronts the hardest truth: she was giving everyone else credit for her own success.

COVID Nearly Crushed the Business. Then She Pivoted 🔥
Sales drop. The world shuts down. She pounds the table and changes the messaging overnight — leading to 98% e-commerce growth.

The Subway Epiphany That Changed Her Leadership 🧠
One realization: you can’t control anything except yourself. That mindset shift becomes her superpower.

The Accidental Salad That Got 30 Million Views 🥗
A random post. Zero strategy. Massive response. The moment she decides to take the opportunity instead of ignoring it.

“It’s So Heavy.” The Truth About Being CEO ❤️
Behind the cupcakes and viral videos is pressure, burnout, and weight. Melissa admits what leadership really feels like.

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What happens when a high-powered career hits unexpected turns? In this deeply personal episode of The Messy Parts, host Maryam Banikarim flips the script as her sister, award-winning journalist Susie Banikarim, interviews her about the defining — and messy — moments behind her remarkable journey. Maryam shares stories of growing up between cultures, navigating grief after losing her father, and building a bold career across advertising, publishing, tech, and global marketing leadership. She also reflects on moments of doubt — like stepping away from a top executive role and asking, “What am I if not employed?” The conversation explores resilience, entrepreneurship, motherhood, and the importance of community, including the inspiration behind The Longest Table movement. This episode is part of a series featuring stories of leaders and founders in transition, in collaboration with The Interval.

Key Moments

00:00 — The Shame of Career Setbacks 💬
Maryam Banikarim opens the episode with an honest reflection on the shame people feel during career setbacks—and why talking openly about those moments matters.

01:20 — Growing Up During the Iranian Revolution 🌍
Maryam shares what it was like experiencing the Iranian Revolution as a child—and why, at the time, it felt more exhilarating than traumatic.

06:00 — The Day Everything Changed: Losing Her Father  💔
Maryam recounts the shocking moment her father drowned during a family vacation—and how suddenly she had to become “the functioning one.”

07:30 — “I Still Hadn’t Cried”  😔
Returning to college after her father’s death, Maryam reveals how she avoided processing grief—and the surreal conversations that followed.

11:00 — How Barnard Helped Save Her  🎓
Maryam explains why Barnard became a life-changing support system during one of the hardest periods of her life.

17:30 — “I’ve Had Like 800 Jobs”  🚀
Maryam reflects on her unconventional career path—switching roles constantly while most people stayed in one job.

23:40 — “My Drug Is Busy”  ⚡
Maryam admits she thrives on constant motion—even working until the day she gave birth.

25:40 — Why Stillness Terrifies Her  🧠
After years of nonstop work, Maryam explains why slowing down forced her to confront emotions she had avoided for decades.

33:00 — “The Busiest Unemployed Person I Know”  😅
During a career pause, Maryam’s son delivers a brutally honest observation about her inability to stop moving.

35:40 — “Am I a Loser Now?”  😬
Maryam opens up about the identity crisis many people face after leaving a major job—and the fear that their career might be over.

43:30 — From Failure to Opportunity: The “We Love New York” Backlash  🔥
When a public campaign she worked on was widely mocked, Maryam turned the criticism into one of the campaign’s biggest strengths.

46:40 — The Moment That Sparked The Longest Table  🍽️
A simple idea during t

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Katrina Markoff built a globally successful chocolate empire, only to lose it all in a devastating corporate and personal betrayal. In this episode of The Messy Parts, Katrina gets real with Maryam about burnout, identity loss, and the fear of starting over. From staying too long in “safe” situations to learning how to trust her instincts again, Katrina shares the messy in-between moments most people hide. She and Maryam discuss bad business breakups, comparison culture, and why you don’t have to be fully “healed” to begin again. This is a conversation about choosing yourself, letting go of titles, and rebuilding after everything falls apart. If you’ve ever felt stuck, behind, or quietly exhausted by doing everything “right,” this episode will remind you that you’re not alone — and that change doesn’t have to be perfect to be powerful.

Key Moments

“If You Don’t Trust Yourself, You’ll Never Do Anything Interesting” 💥
Katrina delivers the core thesis of the episode about intuition, fear-based decisions, and staying stuck in “safe” lives.

Discovering Chemistry Through Curiosity 🧪
Katrina shares how early experimentation and fascination with transformation shaped her creative path.

Running a Cake Business in High School 🎂
A surprising early entrepreneurship moment that foreshadows Katrina’s future career.

Where Your Heart Leads 🍫
Katrina explains how the advice from a mentor helped her trust her intuition.

Taking a Culinary Leap 🧑‍🍳
How the decision to enroll in culinary school in France — and not follow a traditional career path — shaped the next phase of Katrina’s journey

Trusting Yourself Enough to Take Risks 🚀
Katrina and Maryam unpack what self-trust actually looks like in real life decision-making.

A Ticket Around the World ✈️
Katrina takes another big leap and travels the world in search of her next inspiration.

“The Deal Fell Apart” 💔
Katrina describes the business collapse that triggered massive emotional and financial stress.

“Everything Completely Fell Apart” 🔥
She opens up about the full impact of loss, instability, and identity disruption.

When You Trust Yourself in One Way — But Not Another 🪞
A nuanced moment about partial confidence and hidden self-doubt.

Rebuilding After Identity Loss 🌱
Katrina reflects on who she became after letting go of old titles and structures.

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This is the world Kim Hastreiter built: Paper Magazine. Stuff. Joey Arias. Salvador Dali. Barbara Streisand. Nora Ephron. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. Andy Warhol. Keith Haring. Bill Cunningham. Soho Weekly News. Michael Musto. Sex Pistols. Michael Stipe. Larry Kramer. And on and on. She is one of one, a cultural trailblazer in New York City and beyond. In this enlightening conversation, Kim gets honest with Maryam about the moments that shaped her — the art world that wouldn't let her in, the investors who didn't get it, the cultural earthquakes she lived through and refused to be flattened by. She talks about what it really means to find your gift, why she's never once let money make a decision for her, and how surrounding yourself with the right people can change the entire trajectory of your life. Funny, fearless, and full of hard-won wisdom — this is the conversation every creative needs to hear right now.

Key Moments

"If You Won't Help Me, I'll Do It Myself" 🎨
Kim's entire philosophy in one unfiltered opening minute.

The Suburban Kid Who Became an Artist 🌱
How a normal New Jersey childhood with an extraordinary mother quietly planted every seed that followed.

Dropping Everything and Traveling the World Alone ✈️  
Before Paper, before New York — Kim had a rail pass, a pickup truck, and a belief in herself

"Money Was Never My Motivator — Find Your Gift Instead" 
The exchange every 25-year-old chasing the wrong thing needs to hear.

The Art World Shut the Door on Her — So She Kicked It Down 🚪 
Kim arrived with credentials, supporters, and a vision — and still got shut out because she wasn't one of the boys.

How Paper Magazine Started With $1,000 and a Poster 🗞️
The scrappy, accidental origin story of one of the most iconic independent magazines ever made.

Why the People You Surround Yourself With Are Everything 🤝 
No assholes, no transactional relationships — Kim on the art of collecting the right people.

Living Through the AIDS Crisis — and What Community Really Means 🎗️
A moving reflection on loss, showing up, and what humans owe each other in impossible times.

"AI Is a Slow-Motion Car Crash" — And She Saw It Coming 🤖 
 Kim has always read the room early — and she's not optimistic about this one.

The Week She Sold Paper and Lost Her Mother 📦 
Two enormous endings in the same week — and what it really feels like to let go of something you built.

She Wants to Teach — But Nobody Will Let Her In 🎓
Every school has rejected Kim — because they still can't figure out what shelf to put her on.

The One Thing She'd Tell Anyone Under 35 🌟
Practical, specific, and a little surprising — Kim’s best rapid-fire answer of the episode.

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​​What happens when a high-achieving executive loses everything — and has to start over? Shelley Huff spent decades climbing the corporate ladder, from merchant at Walmart to Fortune's Most Powerful Women list, to CEO of Serta Simmons Bedding. Then came bankruptcy, betrayal, and a firing she never got to say goodbye from. In this raw and honest conversation, Shelly opens up to Maryam about panic disorder in the workplace, the identity crisis that follows job loss, the grief nobody names when a career ends, and the sabbatical that changed her life. Whether you're navigating burnout, a career pivot, or simply trying to hold it all together, Shelly's story will resonate deeply.

Key Moments

00:00:00 - She Thought She Was Dying — In the Middle of a Staff Meeting 😰
Shelly opens with a startling admission — she was sitting in boardrooms counting down the clock so she could drive herself to the emergency room.

00:04:03 - She Dropped Out of College at 19 — And It Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Her 🎓
Leaving engineering, starting a candle business with her best friends, and how it all falling apart gave her the clarity to go all in when she went back.

00:07:38 - The Partnership Lesson Every Founder Needs to Hear 🤝
Just because someone is your best friend doesn't mean they'll be your best business partner. 

00:11:36 - How Walmart Became the Place She Never Wanted to Leave 🏪
Shelly knew within four weeks of her internship that this was where she wanted to build her career.

00:14:00 - The Mardi Gras Disaster That Actually Got Her Promoted 🎭
She bought 400 times the inventory the country needed. Instead of deflecting, she owned it completely — and got promoted nine months later.

00:17:25 - The Panic Attacks Nobody Knew About 😶
Shelly describes the year she spent hiding panic disorder as her career was rising.

00:23:05 - Why She Left Walmart for a Struggling Mattress Company 🛏️
The counterintuitive career move that took her from a cash-rich public company to a private-equity-owned business in distress — and why she ran toward it.

00:29:43 - The Moment She Had to Choose: Leave or Stay Through Bankruptcy 💼
Knowing the company might file for Chapter 11, Shelly faced a decision most executives quietly run from. 

00:30:39 - Fired. Three Weeks After Leading the Company Out of Bankruptcy. 🔥
The gut punch moment. After doing everything right, she got fired in a 10-minute phone call.

00:34:42 - The Sabbatical That Changed Everything 🌿
How Shelley surrendered to a full year off that transformed everything.

00:38:40 - Building a Community for the Leaders Nobody Checks On 🫂
Shelly and Maryam on the grief and isolation that follows leaving a C-suite role — and the peer community they're building for executives asking, who am I now?

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Parul Somani was 31 years old, holding her one-week-old newborn, when her phone rang. It was her breast surgeon. On a Saturday. She knew it wasn't good news. What followed — cancer treatment, chemotherapy, a layoff she never saw coming, and a years-long search for work that actually meant something — would have broken most people. Instead, it rebuilt her. In this episode, Parul tells Maryam about growing up with immigrant parents who kept their struggles private; following the prestige path all the way to MIT, Harvard, and Bain; and what it finally took to stop optimizing her life and start actually living it. This one is raw, real, and deeply human. 

Key Moments

00:31 - Two Crises at Once 🏥 
At 31, Parul gives birth, her baby lands in the NICU, and a breast cancer diagnosis follows days later.

04:06 - Her Mother's Secret 🤫 
Growing up, Parul watched her mom hide a breast cancer diagnosis behind closed curtains and a wig.

06:25 - The Call That Changed Everything 📞 
A breast surgeon calls on a Saturday with news that multiple doctors had dismissed for months.

08:42 - When Advocacy Saves a Life 🔬 
How Parul's husband's own family history of cancer drove them to push past doctors who said "don't worry."

10:49 - Grounded Hope 🌱 
Why blind optimism isn't enough — and the research-backed mindset that helped Parul survive.

14:51 - The Prestige Trap 🎓 
MIT, Harvard, Bain — Parul traces the high-achievement path she followed before cancer forced her to question it.

21:24 - When Purpose Finds You 🎯 
Parul discovers a genetics startup that feels like her exact life story — and lands squarely in her Ikigai.

23:03 - Blindsided by a Layoff 😳 
Parul walks into a meeting with HR and legal — and somehow still doesn't see it coming.

27:43 - After the Cry in the Car 🚗 
Practical advice for what to actually do after a layoff, from someone who's been there.

33:23 - The Messy Path to Purpose 📖 
Five years of book rejections, a speaking career derailed by COVID, and why "the learning is in the mess."

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What does it take to walk away from everything you thought you wanted? Artist C. Finley knows. She was pre-law, headed for the Supreme Court, until one semester cracked her wide open and changed the entire trajectory of her life. Today she's a renowned muralist, large-scale painter, and the force behind the Every Woman Biennial — but the path here was anything but straight. In this episode of The Messy Parts, Finley gets honest with Maryam about identity collapse, creative risk, inconsistent income, and why being foolish enough to go for it might be the most strategic thing you ever do. From Missouri to Rome to the streets of New York, this is a story about following the thread that lights you up — even when everyone around you thinks you've lost your mind

Key Moments

0:00 - Finding Her Calling 🎨
Finley reflects on the terrifying, electric moment she realized painting was her purpose — and why a blank canvas never gets old.

0:52 - Growing Up an Outsider 🌾 
Small-town Missouri, a cultural void, and a kid building worlds alone in her backyard — Finley on the childhood that shaped everything.

2:51 - The Supreme Court Dream ⚖️ 
Why a fierce sense of fairness had Finley on a hyper-focused path to the Supreme Court — until she actually read a law brief.

5:23 - The Class That Changed Everything 💥 
One semester. One teacher. Thirty-two paintings in a basement. The moment Finley's entire identity cracked wide open.

8:12 - Telling Her Parents 😬 
She applied to art school without telling anyone. Then came the tears, the silence, and her dad not speaking to her for a month.

13:03 - Arriving in New York 🗽 
Pratt, Fort Greene before it was cool, and finally landing in the city she'd been dreaming about since she was a kid.

15:32 - The Ridley Scott Years 🎬 
How Finley went from art school graduate to music video sets, scenic painting, and learning the hustle that would fuel her entire career.

19:06 - Rock Bottom in LA 🌊 
A heartbreak, a drive-by shooting, a broken-into house, and a $10,000 grant that arrived at exactly the right moment.

24:11 - The Magic Door in Rome 🇮🇹 
A stranger spends 13 hours studying her work, then offers her an apartment and a residency. The pivot that changed absolutely everything.

29:30 - The Dumpster Goes Viral 🗑️ 
How two rolls of leftover wallpaper, two dumpsters in Rome, and one guerrilla midnight mission made the New York Times.

33:08 - The Every Woman Biennial 🌸 
What started as a joke between friends became one of the most inclusive art events in the country — including a run-in with Whitney Houston's publicist.

37:04 - Rapid Fire & Real Talk ⚡ 
Paint disasters, crying two days ago, and the one piece of advice Finley gives everyone navigating a pivot: go be a fool.

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What does it take to walk into a failing company with zero experience and turn it around? Patrick Steel — former CEO of Politico — did exactly that. In this episode of The Messy Parts, Patrick shares with Maryam how he navigated multiple career pivots: from the Clinton White House to investment banking to leading one of Washington's most powerful media brands. We cover imposter syndrome, recovering from public failure, why no task should ever be beneath you, and how relationships — not credentials — are the real currency of a successful career. Plus, Patrick gives his honest take on AI, the creator economy, and what today's 19-year-olds are telling us about the future of media.

Key Moments

0:00 - When Politico Was On Fire 🔥 
Politico was hemorrhaging money, losing talent, and Axios was circling. Patrick walks in with zero media experience.

1:41 - Who Was Young Patrick? 👦 
Growing up on the Upper West Side between two very different worlds — a civil rights lawyer dad and an actress mum with a secret.

5:33 - How Politics Got Under His Skin 🏛️ 
A weekend volunteering in New Hampshire turned into sleeping on a cot and never going back. The Clinton campaign changed everything.

8:07 - Why No Task Was Ever Too Small 💼 
How mastering the fax machine at a think tank opened the door to the White House — and why nothing has ever been beneath him.

13:07 - Making Big Mistakes in Public 😬 
Getting your head ripped off by the Deputy Chief of Staff at 26. What it taught him about accountability and never repeating the same error.

15:11 - The Power of Radical Optimism ☀️ 
Why Patrick wakes up every day choosing positivity — and why as a leader, he believes you simply don't have a choice.

16:12 - The Most Unexpected Pivot Yet 💰 
Gore loses. Wife out of work. Six-month-old baby. Patrick makes his boldest career leap yet — straight to Wall Street.

19:53 - Even Extroverts Feel Like Outsiders 🚪 
Even extroverts feel like they don't belong. Patrick on navigating imposter syndrome across every new chapter of his career.

22:37 - The Relationship Playbook That Changes Everything 🤝 
The Harvard study that says relationships are the only thing that matters — and practical tips for people who don't find this stuff natural.

28:03 - From $13 Million Loss to Billion Dollar Sale 📰 
Right people, right seats, clear mission. How Patrick went from losing $13 million to a billion-dollar sale to Axel Springer.

31:46 - Life After the Billion Dollar Exit ⏸️ 
Teaching 19-year-olds at NYU Stern, advising media startups, and learning to exist without the CEO title.

37:39 - Rapid Fire With Patrick Steel ⚡
Travel before 35, the myth of prestige careers, AI's real economic threat, and the walk-on song he still hasn't figured out.

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Today we're dropping something a little different into your feed: a conversation from our friends at the Rapid Response podcast. Maryam was a guest on the show recently with host Bob Safian, but in the episode you’re about to hear, Bob sits down with David Ko, the CEO of Calm — the mental health and wellness app with more than 180 million downloads — right as he's announcing he's stepping down. Ko unpacks why he made the call, what the relentless pressure of the C-suite really does to a person, and how to draw the line between the kind of stress that sharpens you and the kind that quietly breaks you down.

Visit the Rapid Response website here: https://www.rapidresponseshow.com/

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Joanna Coles built one of the most storied careers in media — from editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan to running The Daily Beast. So when she says feminism got it wrong, people listen. In this episode, Joanna challenges assumptions about ambition, motherhood, and what a successful life actually looks like. She reveals why curiosity — not ambition — drove every major career move she made, what she wishes someone had told her at 28, and why the "have it all" conversation has been missing its most important ingredient. Plus: the moment she knew it was time to walk away from Hearst after 12 years, and what reinvention really looks like from the inside.
🔔 Subscribe to The Messy Parts — where real success stories include the parts that didn't go according to plan.

Key Moments: 

0:00 - The Boss Perk Nobody Talks About 💼 
Joanna drops straight into one of her most practical pieces of advice — why being the boss isn't about power.

1:16 - The Taxi Ambush 🚕 
Joanna recounts the audacious moment she drag-raced up Park Avenue and leapt into a CEO's car to ask for a job.

2:34 - "Feminism Got It Wrong" 🔥 
Joanna unpacks her viral take — why she believes the feminist movement failed to celebrate motherhood.

5:46 - From Yorkshire to New York 🌍 
Joanna traces her journey from growing up in "the Texas of Britain" to becoming the Guardian's New York bureau chief — and why she never went back.

8:15 - Curiosity Over Ambition 💡 
Joanna rejects the label of "ambitious" entirely — and makes the case that curiosity is the real engine behind a big career.

13:29 - The End of the Magazine Era 📰 
Joanna reflects on the bittersweet experience of leading iconic magazines while watching the industry she loved change forever.

20:38 - Getting Bypassed for the Top Job ⚡ 
Joanna opens up about being passed over for the CEO role at Hearst, and the very public, very boss way she chose to make her exit on a treadmill desk.

22:43 - The Portfolio Phase 🔄 
Joanna and Maryam get real about the messy in-between — board seats, SPACs, and the disorienting freedom of not having one defining job title anymore.

27:12 - Walking Away from Her Marriage 💔 
After 28 years and two sons, Joanna reflects candidly on ending her marriage — and why she rejects the word "failure" when it comes to long relationships.

30:13 - AI & The Future of News 🤖 
Joanna shares what excites and worries her about AI, how The Daily Beast is using it, and why she's glad it still can't predict the news.

39:40 - Rapid Fire with Joanna ⚡ 
Alternate careers, the last time she cried, and the one fashion choice she'd erase from history — Joanna closes out with her most unfiltered answers yet.

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What does it take to walk away from a six-figure career with no plan, go broke, and come out the other side with a Bravo show, an Amazon Prime series, and a Broadway stage credit? In this episode of The Messy Parts, the one and only Bevy Smith tells Maryam about growing up in Central Harlem, cutting her teeth in luxury fashion advertising, landing at Vibe and Rolling Stone, and then walking away from all of it to start over — completely sure she was making the right call. Find out what caused Bevy to realize her dream had become a nightmare, how she built Dinner with Bevy from nothing, and why she didn't book her first acting gig until she was 56. Plus: the sheer shirt/mink coat job interview, telling Vibe she couldn't fly coach, and what her mom taught her about men.

If you've ever felt restless at the top, this one's for you.

🔔 Subscribe so you never miss a messy story.

Key Moments

00:00 - Freedom Over Money 💸 
Bevy opens with a bold declaration: she quit her six-figure fashion career at 29 because freedom has always mattered more to her than a paycheck.

01:47 - The Hamlet of Harlem 🏙️ 
Bevy explains why she calls herself "from the Hamlet of Harlem" — and why knowing exactly where you're from is the foundation of everything.

03:08 - The Barmaids Who Made Her 🍸 
Bevy traces her entire hosting style back to the glamorous barmaids at the Dunbar Tavern on her block — the original glam pusses who made everyone feel welcome.

05:46 - How She Stole Her Own Job 📞 
The legendary story of how Bevy, as a temp receptionist, told every caller the position was already filled — and ended up getting hired for it herself.

13:53 - Selling Fashion to Vibe 🎤 
Bevy reveals how she landed luxury brands like Gucci and Prada in Vibe Magazine — not with data decks, but by telling the story of Black style as a cultural birthright rooted in the Civil Rights era.

23:02 - The Rolling Stone Interview Outfit 🐆
 Bevy walks into a job interview at Rolling Stone in a mink coat, an Hermès scarf, and a sheer blouse — and explains exactly why she dressed that way.

28:37 - The Milan Breakdown 😭 
The pivotal moment: alone in a luxury hotel suite in Milan, surrounded by gifts from fashion houses, Bevy collapses into tears and realizes her dream has become a nightmare.

31:32 - Broke But Not Broken 🙏 
After two years of world travel, acting classes, and creative pursuits, Bevy hits rock bottom financially — and describes it as the most blissful period of her life.

33:38 - How Bravo Found Bevy 📺 
The surprisingly casual chain of events — a friend, a phone call, Andy Cohen on Fire Island — that led to Bevy landing on national television.

41:22 - It Gets Greater Later 🌟
Bevy explains her signature mantra, pointing to her first acting gig at 56 that turned into three seasons on Amazon Prime's Harlem as proof.

43:57 - Rapid Fire with Bevy 🔥 
Messy moments, last time

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Belle Burden was raised in a family where you simply did not talk about the messy parts. So when her husband left without explanation during COVID lockdown — and then asked her to tell people it was amicable — something in her snapped. In this episode, the New York Times bestselling author of “Strangers” tells Maryam about the moment she chose radical honesty over a managed narrative, and why that single decision changed everything. Belle and Maryam explore the eerie parallel between how betrayed spouses and laid-off professionals are both pressured to keep quiet and stay composed — and what it really costs us when we do. If you've ever swallowed your truth to make someone else comfortable, this one's for you. 

👉 New episodes every week. Subscribe for more honest conversations that might change the way you see your own messy parts.

Key Moments

0:00 - When the Earth Moves 🌍 
Belle reflects on what it means to have your life upended without warning — and why the only way through is one slow, deliberate step at a time.

1:40 - The Unexpected Bestseller 🚀 
Belle reveals she expected her book to sell fewer than 7,000 copies — and is now in its ninth printing, reaching readers far beyond the divorced women she imagined.

3:22 - "I Thought I Was the Only One" 💔 
Belle describes the flood of messages from strangers sharing almost identical stories of sudden, unexplained abandonment — and why these stories stay hidden.

5:17 - The Harvard Moment That Changed Everything ✍️ 
A cruel comment from a senior student convinced Belle she couldn't write — and she believed it for 30 years.

7:00 - Growing Up Paley 👑 
Belle paints a picture of her unusual childhood — the granddaughter of style icon Babe Paley, yet quietly lonely, nerdy, and never quite fitting in.

10:22 - Breaking the Pattern She Never Could 💍 
Belle explains how she consciously chose a mild-mannered husband to escape her family's legacy of infidelity — and how spectacularly that plan unraveled.

13:24 - The Prenup She Didn't Tell Anyone About 💸 
Two weeks before her wedding, Belle was convinced to change her prenup — and didn't tell her mother, her lawyer, or her brother.

23:46 - The Sandwich 🥪 
The most talked-about moment in the book: Belle makes her husband a sandwich as he tells their daughters he's leaving — and explains what it actually meant.

28:51 - Don't Make a Scene 🤐 
Belle and Maryam unpack the eerie parallel between how women are pressured to stay composed after a husband walks out and how laid-off employees are managed into silence.

36:43 - Breaking the Generational Silence 🔇 
Belle describes delivering the manuscript to her mother on Thanksgiving — and the phone call she received within 24 hours that changed their relationship forever.

45:19 - What She Knows Now 🌅 
Belle reflects on what she's discovered about herself on the other side: a writer, a stronger woman, and someone far less fragile than she ever believed.

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What if the hardest parts of your life were actually setting you up for something bigger? Assia Grazioli-Venier’s story is a powerful reminder that your worst moments don’t define you — what you do next does. In this episode of The Messy Parts, Assia shares with Maryam her journey through dyslexia, cancer, infertility, and major career pivots — and how she turned every setback into fuel. She opens up about building a venture capital fund, why women struggle to raise money, and what she wishes she knew about finance earlier in life. If you’ve ever doubted yourself or felt behind, this conversation will change how you see your story.
👉 Subscribe for more honest conversations about career pivots, resilience, and growth.

Key Moments

00:00 - “I Thought I Was Dumb” 🧠
Assia reflects on growing up with undiagnosed dyslexia and how discovering it changed the trajectory of her life.

01:04 - The Pitching Mistake Women Make 💼
Assia and Maryam unpack why so many women begin pitches from a place of apology instead of confidence.

02:04 - “You’re Doing Them a Favor” 💰
Assia shares the mindset shift that transformed the way she approached fundraising and investing.

03:21 - The Miles Davis Quote That Defines Her Life 🎺
Assia explains why “It’s not the bad note, it’s the note you play after” became her guiding philosophy.

04:44 - Learning Money & Power the Hard Way 📈
Assia discusses entering tech and venture capital without understanding equity, finance, or negotiation.

08:21 - Why 98% of Capital Goes to Men 🚨
A candid conversation about venture capital, power structures, and why women are still underfunded.

13:26 - From the Italian Countryside to NYC 🌍
Assia shares her unconventional childhood growing up between rural Italy and Manhattan’s Upper East Side.

16:13 - “Dyslexia Is My Superpower” ⚡
She explains how dyslexia became one of her greatest strengths—and why mindset matters more than labels.

19:20 - The Accident That Changed Everything 🚕
After being hit by a taxi at 22, Assia’s original career path collapsed—and unexpectedly led her into tech.

23:13 - The Wild Early Days of Spotify 🎧
Assia recounts helping build Spotify during the early streaming era and why she believed in the future of music tech.

30:49 - The Cancer Diagnosis That Sparked Muse Capital ❤️
A breast cancer diagnosis led Assia to uncover shocking gaps in women’s healthcare—and ultimately launch her VC fund.

40:23 - How to AI-Proof Your Career 🤖
Assia shares her thoughts on the future of work, education, and the skills AI can’t replace.

41:36 - Advice for Anyone Struggling With Confidence 🌱
Her perspective on confidence, self-doubt, and why knowledge and work ethic matter more than perfection.

42:00 - “It’s Going to Be More Than Okay” ✨
Assia reflects on infertility, resilience, and why life’s messiest moments can become your greatest gifts.

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