The Immortal Life of Agencies – Details, episodes & analysis

Having touched on the omnipresent topic that is AI in pretty much every episode, this time we dive right in. Our guest is Chris Johnson, Founder and CEO of the AI consultancy, TomorrowToday. 

And wow, does he give value for money. While much of the industry discourse around AI centres on creative tools and ideation speed, Chris is focused on commercial application. 

Our conversation starts with him sharing detailed advice on how agencies can reinvent their pitch process using commonly available AI tools. From simple efficiencies, to the creation of synthetic target audiences - and even synthetic clients! - he describes how you can proactively improve not just your ideas, but also how well they land. 

Chris also shares his experience of the challenges associated with getting agency teams on board with wholesale adoption of new tools and technologies. 

We wrap the episode by looking forward - exploring how AI will inevitably impact the way that agencies sell, price and make money. 

This is such a valuable conversation. As well as honesty, humour and pragmatism, Chris brings plenty of clarity - not least on what AI can’t do, as well as how these emerging tools can help you generate real commercial impact. 

HIGHLIGHTS

[01:41] How Chris first blew my mind

[02:51] Reinventing your pitch process with AI

[05:50] How synthetic audiences can improve your ideas

[10:00] Creating an AI version of what your clients care about

[15.30] Creating commercial value with AI tools

[18.25] How agency adoption dramatically varies 

[20.15] The mindsets that help agencies use AI effectively 

[25.20] How AI will redefine the agency business model 

[27.25] AI, value-based selling and why differentiation is essential 

[32.35] Can agencies really price on deliverables? 

[35:50] Advice for agency leaders on driving AI adoption

MORE ABOUT CHRIS:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnsonchris/

Website - https://tomorrowtoday.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

When it comes to advertising agencies, they don’t come much more prestigious than Omnicom’s DDB. Whenever any of us needs a quote of substance, Bill Bernbach - the B in DDB - is always a rich source of wisdom. 

So what a treat to sit down with their global CEO, Alex Lubar, to find out what makes DDB successful. Alex speaks to what he sees as the two driving forces of agency culture - momentum and optimism - and how they’re an essential foundation for innovation. 

We also cover how quality drives differentiation in a marketplace that’s often seen as oversupplied. And Alex shares his perspective on creating shared goals with clients, as well as how to maintain the trust and transparency required to ensure success. 

Alex has an ease in the way he approaches his work, whether that’s dealing with difficult clients or handling the natural ups and downs of agency life. So regardless of whether you’re also in a big global role, this conversation is a valuable masterclass in optimism and positivity.

HIGHLIGHTS 

[04.07] The two driving forces of agency culture.

[05.39] How supportive environments help solve problems.

[07.07] Maintaining the highest standard of behaviour in the workplace. 

[09.57] Talent management and self-improvement.

[15.16] Insights from younger generations. 

[19.45] Trends in client behaviour. 

[22.30] Building an honest relationship between clients and your team. 

[29.00] Perceived oversupply in the agency market.

[30.25] Differentiation comes through the lens of quality. 

[32.48] How clients choose agencies. 

MORE ABOUT ALEX:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/alex-lubar-292b744/ 

Website - ddb.com/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

In this episode, Robin is joined by author, thinker and Genius Steals Co-Founder, Faris Yakob. Famed for his ‘digital nomad’ lifestyle as much as his insights, a LOT of agency people ask him about how to go freelance. 

So he and Robin explore why agency life sucks for a lot of people and what agency leaders can do to avoid great talent choosing to be independent consultants instead. 

Unpacking his own ‘accidental’ journey to becoming a consultant, Faris shares what he sees as the limitations and constraints of working in a traditional agency role. He and Robin also explore the business model inefficiencies that contribute to the pressures that agency CEOs face. 

If you’re interested in Faris’ recipe for how ‘unkillable’ agencies can thrive in an era of increased competition, then don’t miss this episode. 

CHAPTERS:

02.20 Why agency life sucks

07.35 How Faris’ nomadic life outside agencies came about 

12.20 What people look for from their jobs 

14.20 How our business model puts agencies in opposition to clients

17.40 Learnings from the world of management consultancy 

21.30 Advice for agency leaders to help them keep top talent

25.20 What makes agencies ‘unkillable’ 

29.30 The quest for new models 

32.20 How creativity can inform every level of the agency business

35.40 Kellogg’s long-term thinking for agencies from 1989

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/farisyakob/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/faris 

More on JWT and Kellogg’s

https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/clients-arent-just-for-christmas/6494

In this episode, Robin is joined by acclaimed advertising guru Rory Sutherland.

Known for his innovative thinking, particularly in applying principles of behavioural economics to advertising and consumer behaviour, he and Robin explore the barriers to innovation in modern agencies. 

From accidental innovations like Viagra, to the value of inefficiency, as well as the alignment of briefs to organisational needs, rather than those of the consumer, this far-reaching conversation offers a wealth of inspiration for having a different kind of conversation with your clients. 

They also share ideas on commercial innovation - like why agencies don’t adopt models from other industries, and how to avoid being hampered by a default to convention. 

Rory also shares a powerful observation about annual reports that you can never unhear. 

This is a fascinating perspective on the future of agencies and the cultural shifts required for meaningful progress. 

CHAPTERS:

02.18 Why advertising is like the 1920s fashion industry.

04.20 We only solve the problems we’re asked to solve.

06.08 Innovation happens in reverse.

06.52 Proactive creativity is seen as a cost. 

09.54 The danger of AI in creative thinking. 

13.38 Most problems aren’t clear until we try to solve them. 

18:12 Why Cannes should be about buying ads not awarding them. 

21.10 Most of the wealth of creativity is stolen by the advertising bureaucracy. 

24.05 Agencies sell like bad estate agents.

26.10 We can’t innovate when we’re paid by the hour. 

35.20 How media and creative agencies differ on entrepreneurialism. 

38.25 Improving profit through ‘network effects’. 

45.52 Reinventing incentives for innovation. 

47.36 Why annual reports hamper Marketers.

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland

Twitter - https://twitter.com/rorysutherland 

Rory's Publications:  

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Rory-Sutherland/author/B07L3WRSWM

Wavemaker’s Chris Peters’ newsletter ‘B2B Excellence’:

https://www.b2bexcellence.co/

In seven short years, Uncommon Creative Studio has gone from launch to the very top of the advertising world. Alongside the reputation, the awards and of course the work, their deal with Havas now gives them the scale to go truly global. 

So how can a newly minted agency achieve so much success so quickly? To find out, we sat down with one of Uncommon’s founders, Natalie Graeme. 

Starting with Uncommon’s origin story, Natalie unpacks just how deliberately she, Lucy and Nils have authored the agency’s story - from why it exists, who they aspire to work with, and how this impacts the kinds of briefs their clients bring them. 

She also speaks to what made her want to start a different kind of agency; one with a broader skill-set than many ‘advertising’ agencies, and the freedom to protect talent from the kind of unimaginative briefs that lead to uninspiring work. 

If you run an agency that aspires to work with open-minded clients on consistently interesting briefs, then there’s a lot to learn here. 

HIGHLIGHTS 

[02.15] Uncommon’s origin story. 

[06.10] Understanding your agency’s place in the world. 

[08.40] There’s more than one way to answer a business problem. 

[14.35] Being upfront with clients about fit. 

[19.55] How brands can cut-through in today’s world.

[25.00] Valuing talent by cutting out the ‘faff fat’. 

[28.45] AI, creativity and justifying a premium.

[34.00] How agency founders can cultivate innovation. 

MORE ABOUT NATALIE:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/natalie-graeme-93608b4/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/nattergraeme

Website - uncommon.studio/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com 

Sue Unerman is the Chief Transformation Officer of EssenceMediacomX. And having spent 34 years with Mediacom in its various incarnations, it’s fair to say that ‘transformation’ is a subject that Sue knows a thing or two about. 

Unpacking her personal journey across five decades (sorry, Sue!), this far-reaching conversation explores how to build an agency career amidst constant change and increasing uncertainty. 

From playing to your strengths, to the impact of having great bosses, Sue shares her typically thoughtful observations on how to thrive as an introvert, particularly if your skills don’t conform to the norms. 

We also address the resilience of the patriarchy, in particular how gender influences career progression and why men progress faster than equally capable women. 

Sue also advocates strongly for fairness and straight talking, as well as how agency leaders can foster a sense of belonging - especially for young talent as they make their way in the industry. 

HIGHLIGHTS

[02.10] Sue’s career journey.

[04.48] The importance of collaboration. 

[08.22] What it takes to play to your strengths. 

[12.30] The two ways of building a career in agencies.

[16.11] Different approaches for introverts and extroverts.

[20.34] The value of fairness and straight talking.

[23.50] Levelling the playing field for women in agencies.

[30.21] Glass-slipper syndrome and what makes a ‘job’ a job.

MORE ABOUT SUE: 

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/sue-unerman-7945058/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/SueU 

Sue’s books -  https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/Sue-Unerman/author/B007STF5DS 

Sue's blog - sueunerman.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter - twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

www.codefinery.com

Our guest today is the wonderful Harjot Singh - Global Chief Strategy Officer at McCann & McCann Worldgroup. This is a rich and personal conversation about the impact of people being different in our industry. 

Harjot has a real way with words and he shares some lovely thoughts, not least on the critical difference between discipline and dogma when it comes to great work. He also beautifully captures what he calls the ‘dance’ that occurs between agencies and their clients as we strike a balance between offering certainty and possibility. 

Harjot also speaks candidly about there not being a playbook to follow as he progressed through the ranks. And his perspective on imposter syndrome is particularly powerful; using his own doubts as a prompt to search for more information and greater insight. 

I really love the groundedness that Harjot brings to the conversation. If you’re looking for an example of how to stay present, really listen and offer genuine answers, there’s a lot to learn here. He talks the talk on being yourself and he certainly walks the walk too. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[05.38] Balancing certainty and possibility.

[07.36] The art of persuasion and positive outcomes.

[12.13] Why observation and attention is so important.

[19.00] Listening to your mind and processing what you hear.

[24.22] Why good people make good leaders. 

[30.07] You can't do different if you're not different.

[34.32] Advice for agency leaders.

MORE ABOT HARJOT:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/harjot-singh-30a33b2/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/iamharjsingh 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/  

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn  

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

This episode features Katie Lee - former CEO of Lucky Generals and now Chief Operating Officer of Wavemaker, the WPP media agency. Together, we explore the differences between healthy and unhealthy growth.

As a case in point, Katie shares her experience of how agencies often confuse growth with strategy, which in turn leads to unhelpful - and unhealthy - places. So if you recognise her definition of the ‘danger zone’ that this creates, then consider her wisdom a wake-up call.

We also delve deeper into the importance of role modelling and how that enables future leaders to feel empowered. And if you’ve lost your new-business mojo, Katie shares her view on how to get it back. 

Finally, this being The Immortal Life of Agencies, no episode would be complete without a clear view on how to make our industry a more joyful place to be. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04.29] The confusion of growth and strategy.

[07.57] What matters in maintaining client relationships.

[12.35] What prevents future leaders from feeling empowered.

[15.57] Ways to regain your new-business mojo.

[20.44] Pitching to different types of audiences. 

[23.33] How growth changes when you’re the CEO.

[26.57] Two different layers of feedback. 

[30.17] The culture-building power of new-business. 

GUEST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/katie-lee-37185321/ 

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

Ruth Mortimer is the Global President of Advertising Week, so it’s fair to say that she has an unusually broad perspective on our industry, on clients and of course on agencies. 

In this episode, you can really feel her breadth of knowledge - as well as her passion for creativity - as she compares and contrasts different markets. In particular, Ruth unpacks what’s holding back the UK market, as well as what agencies can do about it. 

She also shares her very personal perspectives on AI - not least how it can democratise creativity by bringing voices and innovations into the industry. 

Ruth’s optimism is infectious and her examples are inspiring. So if that sounds like a good way to invest half an hour, then you’ll definitely enjoy this episode.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03.39] Creativity from a global perspective and how the industry can be different in different places.

[08.43] What causes the lack of creative business problem-solving in the UK? 

[13.31] The right government can open new possibilities to the UK advertising industry.

[16.00] How can we remedy the lack of hope and optimism in the industry? 

[23.39] The impact AI brings to the creative web. 

[28.14] How AI could be a great tool to introduce new voices to the creative industry.

[31.38] Diversity and its impact on a successful business

[35.57] Practical advice for industry leaders.

GUEST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/ruthmortimer/ 

Website - advertisingweek.com/

STUFF WE MENTION:

Advertising Associations 'Ad Pays' research - https://adassoc.org.uk/advertising-pays/

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

Today’s episode is powerful. It's a conversation with Rob Campbell, Chief Strategy Officer at Colenso BBDO in Auckland. The topic is diversity in agencies - and how those of us with privilege can and should be doing more.

Rob brings humanity and curiosity to his experience of diversity from beyond the shiny Western boardrooms of Soho and Madison Avenue, openly discussing what he got wrong in living and working in the US, China, Singapore, Japan and New Zealand (to name a few) as well as sharing practical advice on what he learned agency leaders can do better.

This is a rare opportunity to hear a privileged white man - one who’s at the very top of our industry - speak so candidly about his own learning journey, including a transformative experience watching the movie ‘Get Out’ with three women from the black community. 

If you believe that diversity makes agencies and creativity stronger and you aspire to be a more inclusive leader, then there’s a lot here for you.

CHAPTERS:

4.25 Becoming militant about DEI responsibility

06.53 Travelling the world based on curiosity

09.50 How knowledge of history is essential for innovation

13.30 How to bring diverse truths into the workplace

16.05 Western privilege in Black Lives Matter

21.55 What privileged white men can do differently

25.30 How to stop worrying about saying the wrong thing

32.45 Proactively creating the conditions for others to thrive

35.15 Getting past white fragility

36.12 Practical advice for agency leaders

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

https://www.codefinery.com

HOST SOCIALS:

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbonn/ 

Twitter - https://twitter.com/robonn 

GUEST SOCIALS:  

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-campbell-723593/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/Robertc1970