Elliot Moss didn't join a law firm to keep things the same. As Partner and Chief Brand Officer at Mishcon de Reya LLP, he brought a deep understanding of branding into a profession that often dismisses it, and changed how one of the UK's top firms thinks about growth and perception. He shares how clarity, consistency, and emotional intelligence turned Mishcon from a £45 million practice into a £380 million brand defined by truth and differentiation, not slogans. Clients, he says, may buy expertise, but they stay because of trust and how a firm makes them feel.

He talks candidly about leading change in a culture that prizes logic over emotion, showing how small wins and patience can reshape perception from within. The conversation moves beyond marketing into the psychology of leadership, exploring why authentic differentiation matters more than polish and how strong branding can become a firm's greatest competitive advantage. For Elliot, the future of law will belong to those who understand that perception drives performance—and that real brand power is earned, not advertised.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Building a Brand Inside a Law Firm
04:35 From Advertising to Legal Branding
06:30 Why Differentiation Matters in Professional Services
09:08 Changing Client Perception Through Authentic Branding
15:33 Strategy and Growth at Mishcon de Reya LLP
24:32 Leading Change in a Traditional Industry
31:16 AI, Private Capital, and the Future of Law Firms
36:59 Elliot Moss on Leadership and Opportunity

Connect with Elliot Moss

Connect with Elliot on LinkedIn

Elliot's Web Bio

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

Connect with Howard on LinkedIn

Howard's Company Web Profile

Connect with Chris Batz:

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn 

Follow Columbus Street on LinkedIn

Columbus Street Website 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Many firms say they have a Law Firm Strategy, but few actually do. In this episode, Chris Batz breaks down what true strategy looks like inside corporate law firms and why clarity must come before growth. He introduces his framework for effective law firm strategy, the "three P's": positioning, perception, and competition. He explains how each reveals the gap between where a firm stands today and where it aims to be. From understanding client perception to benchmarking against competitors, he outlines how to replace internal optimism with market reality and strategic focus.

Chris also tackles the forces reshaping the legal marketplace—AI, private equity, and shifting client expectations—and how they demand a more agile, evidence-based approach to law firm strategy. Rather than chasing growth for its own sake, Chris argues that firms must make disciplined trade-offs, align behavior with purpose, and revisit their strategy regularly to stay relevant.

This episode challenges leaders to ask: when was the last time your law firm strategy reflected the market you're actually competing in?

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 What Law Firm Strategy Really Means

01:00 The Three P's: Positioning, Perception, and Competition

03:00 How to Define Your Market Position

06:20 Why Client Perception Shapes Reality

11:10 Building Credibility and Market Visibility

14:00 Adapting Strategy to Client Needs and Market Change

17:30 Common Pitfalls and the Strategy Gap

20:50 Growth Decisions: Lateral Hires vs. Mergers

23:25 On Law Firm Strategy

Connect with Chris Batz:

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn 

Follow Columbus Street on LinkedIn

Columbus Street Website 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Law firms that treat innovation like a team sport are the ones shaping the future of legal practice.

Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg sit down with Jamie Drozd, the managing partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP, a corporate law firm known for leaning into technology in ways that actually stick. Jamie shares how her path, from commercial litigator to firm leadership, was shaped by early lessons in service, and how those same values now guide her in a role she never set out to pursue.

What does meaningful growth look like for a modern law firm? For Jamie, it's not about size. It's about deepening expertise in industries like technology, financial services, and media, while staying rooted in strong client relationships and a culture that prioritizes collaboration over ego.

Jamie also offers a candid look at how the firm is approaching technology, including artificial intelligence. From firm-wide hackathons to building custom AI tools that support legal writing and workflow, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP is taking a hands-on approach to innovation—one that empowers people at every level to think creatively about client service.

This episode leaves listeners with a clear vision: growth that reflects the firm's values, a workplace that supports both ambition and well-being, and a culture where tech isn't a trend but a mindset.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Introduction

02:09 Leadership Roles and Achievements

09:27 Firm's Growth Strategy

13:19 Embracing AI and Technology

18:25 Internal Drive for Innovation

20:13 Geographic Expansion Considerations

22:52 Transition from Practicing Attorney to Managing Partner

25:57 Hybrid Work Environment and Engagement

30:50 Long-term Vision and Goals

Links

Connect with Jaime Drozd:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-drozd-7592733/

Firm Website Bio: https://www.dwt.com/people/d/drozd-jaime

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Private equity is making moves in the legal industry, and Crispin Passmore has a message for firms that think they can ignore it: adapt or risk getting left behind.

Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg sit down with Crispin, the co-founder of Stratify and a former U.K. regulator turned law firm consultant, to talk about what's happening on both sides of the Atlantic. Why has the U.K. embraced alternative business structures while the U.S. continues to resist change? Is the legal industry really evolving, or does it just feel that way to those pushing for reform? Crispin shares his perspective on where things stand, why some firms feel no urgency, and what's fueling the momentum in places like Arizona.

Crispin also dives into what private equity sees in the legal sector: why investors are drawn to it, how they're already involved, and what it means for firms that want to stay competitive. But money alone won't solve the industry's biggest challenges. Governance structures are outdated. Succession planning is a mess. Many firms still operate as if the market hasn't changed in decades. Crispin explains why those who are looking outward, not inward, will have the biggest advantage in the years ahead.

Change may feel slow, but as Crispin puts it, revolutions rarely happen overnight. When the shift picks up speed, will firms be ready?

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Introduction to Private Equity in Legal Industry

03:04 Comparison of U.K. and U.S. Legal Market Liberalization

05:50 Success of ABS in the U.K.

08:02 U.S. States Experimenting with Legal Market Liberalization

11:45 Structuring National Practices from Arizona ABS

14:55 Vulnerability of Law Firms to Market Changes

16:45 Private Equity Interest in Legal Market

19:06 Alternative Ways for Private Equity to Enter U.S. Legal Market

21:15 Challenges of Private Equity in Traditional Law Firms

25:13 Changing Dynamics in Law Firms with Private Equity

29:02 Future of U.S. Law Firms with ABS in the U.K.

33:35 Effective Use of Raised Capital by Law Firms

35:17 IPOs vs. Private Markets for Law Firms

Links

Connect with Crispin Passmore:

Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crispin-passmore/

Firm Website Bio: https://www.passmoreconsulting.co.uk/about-me

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It's astonishing; it's just mind-blowing," says Chris Batz about the exponential growth in revenue generated by the AmLaw top 100 firms in the last 22 years. On today's episode of The Future is Bright, Chris takes a closer look at these numbers, what's driving them and which firm comes out on top. He also takes a look at the increasing number of firms who are choosing to merge in order to, among many reasons, increase competition, deepen their benches, and to increase their geographic reach. 

On his first solo episode of the podcast, Chris draws from quotes from executives at several high-profile firms who explain their motivation for merging. So often, it was a matter of shared values—very often people-focused values—aligning and that the decision benefits the internal teams just as much as it does the client. Chris, who is now exclusively focused on assisting firms with this process, offers his own insights on the topic. 

Join today's episode of The Future is Bright to learn how far corporate law firms have come in the past 20 years, and what it means for the future. 

Quotes

• "I am assisting firms where they are really feeling the effects of these incredibly large law firms and the consolidation that is taking place at a rapid pace right now." (3:08 | Chris Batz)

• "Twenty-two years ago, in 2002, there were only two law firms that were generating a billion in revenue annually, a year. The other 98 were, of course, less than a billion in revenue. Twenty-two years later, it is astonishing, but more than half—54 firms—now, of the AmLaw100, are generating more than a billion. To break that down, 33 firms are generating a billion to just under 2 billion. The two to three billion mark, or just under three billion is 14 firms. And then we have three billion and more—seven firms. It's just mind-blowing." (4:44 | Chris Batz) 

• "We've had substantial consolidation, explosive growth, and of course, there have been price increases, clients are reducing the amount of firms they're working with, generally speaking. They're finding firms with broader benches and deeper benches, especially sub-specialties is a really important thing, as well as geographic reach." (7:11 | Chris Batz)

• "Clients have 'reputational risk.' General counsel, the boards, CEOs, CFOs, decision-makers of these large clients. And perception—even though you think reality is different—perception shows that smaller firms are riskier decisions to give valuable work to. So, that valuable work goes to the bigger firms—not always, but consistently—it's happening. Valuable being higher rate work, more headline-making work, probably requiring deeper benches, subspecialties, all these things, so that's one of the reasons consolidations happen." (17:30 | Chris Batz)

Links

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It's all about people management," says today's guest Kristina Lawson, drawing parallels between her time as the former mayor of Walnut Creek, CA to her current role as managing partner at Hanson Bridgett LLP, a mid-sized firm which like Kristina, whose practice was in real estate and land use, has a deep connection and dedication to California and its communities. This values-based California law firm's equity partners comprise nearly 40 percent women—virtually unheard of in the AmLaw 200—which reflects its pioneering and foundational policies of diversity, equity and inclusion. On today's episode of The Future is Bright, Kristina discusses the firm's guiding principles, their agile workforce policy that pre-dated the Covid 19 pandemic, and its exemplary approach to transitioning power to the next generation. 

The key, Kristina explains, is a willingness to adapt to new working styles, seeing them as opportunities for growth rather than points of criticism. She also discusses the biggest threat to the business of law, the crucial piece of work culture she feels was lost to Covid, and how Hanson Bridgett LLP is navigating the advent of AI.

Join today's discussion to learn more about Kristina and Hanson Bridgett LLP's shared guiding principle of putting people first, and the number one issue that keeps her up at night. 

Quotes

• "It's helpful to check back in, both to ground me and the reasons I joined Hanson Bridgett and what Hanson Bridgett's all about, and again also to check in on those promises I made to our partnership about the direction we'd head in with me at the helm." (7:32 | Kristina Lawson)

• "Being the mayor of a mid-sized town and the managing partner of a mid-sized firm, there's a lot of consensus-building and it's all about people management. Whether it's constituent management as the mayor or managing the other members of the city council…it's all about figuring out where those consensus positions are and building trusted relationships, even with people that you don't agree with, on key issues, so that you can continue to move forward. Those are really the same issues we have here at our partnership." (8:20 | Kristina Lawson)

• "We need to adapt to where they're at. Just because they're doing something differently, does not mean they're doing it wrong." (15:47 | Kristina Lawson)

• "Founded by a group who really believed in diversity, equity and inclusion and values-based lawyering before it was a thing…One of the reasons I joined Hanson Bridgett was the firm has an equity partnership which is made up of just about 40 percent women." (18:57 | Kristina Lawson)

• "The number one thing that keeps me up at night is worrying about whether our people are well and whether we can improve their mental health and wellness as an organization." (22:22 | Kristina Lawson)

Links

Connect with Kristina Lawson:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/klawson/

Firm Website Bio: https://www.hansonbridgett.com/Our-Attorneys/kristina-d-lawson

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It is still quite challenging to convince partners of the need for change when the traditional model is still serving them incredibly well," says Neville Eisenberg, Senior Strategy Executive, Mishcon de Reya, who joins The Future is Bright to talk about innovation taking place within UK law firms, innovation he helped contribute to with the contract attorney company, Lawyers on Demand, and now with Flex Legal, an alternative legal services provider now owned by Mishcon de Reya. Neville will discuss with hosts Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg the growing number of opportunities in the alternative legal services provider market and what it means for private equity. 

He'll discuss the changes which have taken place in the UK legal landscape as a result of deregulation and a number of legal processes now available in a self-service capacity, and what this means in terms of social justice. He will discuss the widely differing implications of AI on Top 10 law firms and on everyone below them, and the disconnect between supply and demand that he finds most concerning. 

Learn Neville's thoughts on the crop of small high-performing law boutiques burgeoning in the UK and the importance of U.S. competition to the UK market. 

Quotes

• "It is still quite challenging to convince partners of the need for change, or indeed the value of spending money on doing things differently when the traditional model is still serving them incredibly well." (11:40 | Neville Eisenberg)

• "The Top Ten law firms in the UK generally regard Gen AI as likely to have a positive impact on their firms, in particular, because they see opportunity for productivity gains. But the rest of the Top 100, so the 90 firms below the top ten, have exactly the opposite, almost exactly, the opposite view of the impact of Gen AI in that they have significant concerns about the pressure that it might produce from clients to reduce cost of legal services and also that there may be a reduction in some of the work that's outsourced to their firms." (12:27 | Neville Eisenberg)

• "Notwithstanding the deregulation, there is still—it appears to me from my conversation with clients—there is still a disconnect between the demand side and the supply side in the market." (20:15 | Neville Eisenberg)

• "One doesn't have to be in a huge law firm to be successful. There is another model that can work." (30:20 | Neville Eisenberg)

• "It just seems to me that there is a very strong business case for many of these firms creating shared business services platforms that can benefit from scale economies, and all the other benefits of scale, and running those business services functions in a more effective way." (32:51 | Neville Eisenberg)

Links

Connect with Neville Eisenberg:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neville-eisenberg-47b2586/

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Everyone deserves to feel like they matter," says Noah Heller, who as CEO of Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP has built a culture of communication and connection, of being consistently authentic and operating with integrity in work and in life. He joins this episode of The Future is Bright to explain how his firm has evolved under his 12-year tenure by seeking to understand the needs of others, making himself genuinely available to those around him, and utilizing the power of personal relationships.  

Noah also discusses his observations of the current U.S. legal market and his predictions for the coming decade. He explains his biggest surprise in taking on this leadership role, the greatest compliment he's been paid and the one issue that keeps him up at night. He will also share his advice about succession planning for law firm executives. 

In today's discussion, you'll learn how, by taking a genuine interest in people and their motivations, Noah was able to not only understand and meet, but exceed expectations to create a thriving workplace environment.

Quotes

• "For me, it's been a recognition that the power of my relationships is something that I should utilize as opposed to be[ing] afraid of." (6:43 | Noah Heller)

• "The thing that carried through really well between my practice and leadership was my ability to appreciate the importance of expectations, the importance of meeting and exceeding expectations, and also my ability to reasonably affect those expectations wherever I could." (14:05 | Noah Heller)

• "I'm so available and I care so much about my partners that I create a real—and it's not fake, it's real; it's a real perception—that I'm there, I'm available and when they need me, they can reach out. And so the fact that so many people feel that they have so much of my attention, really, and my caring is really humbling for me. I try to do this job the way I try to live my life, if that resonates. I don't put on a different outfit or a different persona the way that I lead this firm and the way I conduct myself in life." (16:34 | Noah Heller)

• "The thing that I'm the most proud of, that's evolved in the time that I've been in this role, is the way people are treated within these four walls has evolved over time, and to me, that is really, really important." (24:07 | Noah Heller)

Links

Connect with Noah Heller:

Law Firm bio: https://katten.com/Noah-Heller

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheller/

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"I suspect in the UK we're going to end up with some really deep, high-quality verticals…as opposed to lots of law firms having components," says today's guest Greg Jackson, Director of Law Firm Strategy and Transformation at PwC, who joins The Future is Bright to discuss this and many more predictions he has for the future of UK law firms. Along with co-hosts Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, Greg will compare UK firms to their American counterparts in terms of economics, leverage, rates and utilization, pay and expectations at the partner level, as well as yearly hours. He will explain why he's changed his view—however slightly—on the idea of growth for growth's sake, how the UK legal market is changing—including a particularly important one—and his advice for mid sized firms.

He will also explain how Alternative Business Structure will affect the UK model going forward and why U.S. outbound work to Europe is so important. He'll predict whether or not the UK will adopt a hybrid model, marrying innovation with tradition, as well as what to do when you've been on a steady upward trajectory for a sustained period of time, and the issue that keeps his clients up at night. 

What is the one thing that U.S. law firms do better than those across the pond? Join today's episode of The Future is Bright to find out. 

Quotes

• "One of the projects that I always encourage clients to do—and I did in my old world—was, How do you situate your exec or board in a ten percent off the top line reduction? Whether hours or price or some combination of the two? Situate yourself in that issue and think, 'What can we do about cash? What do we do with our clients? What work do you want to hold on to that we're willing to go for a downward cycle, even if it's painful?" (7:01 | Greg Jackson)

• "I don't know how this is played out in the U.S., but in the UK, in particular in the last 12 months, there have been a number of quite bad well-being incidents that have happened which have caused firms to really think about, 'How do you connect utilization into an understanding of what people are doing?' It can be quite hidden, to your point, big hours, etc." (14:58 | Greg Jackson)

• "When you think of what's coming in terms of technology investment, lawyer salaries, the need to be more international and cope with more complex regulatory environments to operate in the U.S./UK, I just see a world in which you need more scale." (19:47 | Greg Jackson)

• "I suspect in the UK we're going to end up with some really deep, high-quality verticals…as opposed to lots of law firms having components." (24:22 | Greg Jackson)

Links

Connect with Greg Jackson:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-jackson86/

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"We wanted it to be a true merger of equals," says Scott Kadish, who, along with Kevin McLaughlin, are Co-Managing Partners at the newly merged UB Greensfelder. On today's episode of The Future is Bright, the two men talk to host Chris Batz about what can happen when two firms marry their considerable strengths to make themselves even more competitive and able to take on bigger, more complex work. It's not an overnight process. It's the result of long, thoughtful considerate discussions, where all concerns and needs are met, responsibilities are divided fairly and sensibly, and where care is taken to make sure that all employees not only survive the merger, but are placed where they will be most successful. 

Even the new name UB Greensfelder was formed as the result of conscientious talks to ensure that neither firm felt that they were being acquired, but rather were moving forward together. While no merger is without its surprises, perhaps what's most surprising was how genuinely compatible the firms felt with each other. 

Today's discussion reflects what a genuinely pleasant experience this merger has been for both parties and what can happen when two powerful entities treat each other with mutual respect and are thoughtful down to the smallest details. 

Quotes

• "Both firms were really coming at this from positions of strength…Both firms were recognized for their work in a number of different practice areas, diverse practice areas…We came together because we thought we'd be better together—we're seeing that happen—not because we thought we were in desperation mode." (5:14 | Kevin McLaughlin) 

• "Neither of us wanted to feel like we were being acquired. We wanted it to be a true merger of equals and that required a discussion about, 'How do you do this and how do you do that?' Every single policy. And it was a discussion—we use that word intentionally—because it wasn't a negotiation…We also agreed—and I think this is key—that we were just going to try to figure out the best way to do it, the best practice, for everything." (12:56 | Scott Kadish) 

• "I think it's because of the length of time that we were talking that there really weren't any significant surprises. Conflicts—our general counsel, at one point he said to me, 'I am shocked at how few conflicts we're having.' And especially we didn't have any what I would call 'material conflicts'…in terms of impacting the overall firm, not really at all." (29:44 | Kevin McLaughlin)

• "The merger will really be successful if people develop new relationships and new contacts. Otherwise, if they're stuck in the same place and they don't reach out and develop these…then their practice is not going to be affected by the merger. But this is a unique opportunity to grow your client base and grow your business with people who you'll enjoy practicing with." (33:22 | Scott Kadish)

Links

Connect with Scott Kadish: 

Website bio https://www.ubglaw.com/scott-p-kadish

LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-kadish-3679a04/

Connect with Kevin McLaughlin:

Website bio https://www.ubglaw.com/kevin-t-mclaughlin

LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-mclaughlin-27703a8/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Teams and groups are much harder to pull off. The degree of difficulty is a challenge. There's a real prize if you get it right," says co-host Howard Rosenberg as he and Chris Batz dig into the complexities of law firm growth through team acquisitions. They emphasize the strategic advantage of acquiring teams rather than individual hires. It's a more challenging process, but the rewards—stronger firm cohesion, better retention, and a lower risk profile—make it worth the effort.

Chris notes that many firms are now open to making bold moves, like doubling their size through mergers. But both hosts point out that the real test is in integrating these new teams into the firm's culture and structure. What makes for a smooth transition? They agree that a clear plan, strong leadership, and a compelling market story are essential. For any firm aiming to grow, this episode serves as a reminder that success lies in more than just closing the deal—it's about executing a thoughtful, sustainable strategy.

Quotes

• "If a law firm leader can do 10 onesies and twosies over the course of 12 months, that's going to create some runway. That's going to make it happen. But teams and groups are much harder to pull off. The degree of difficulty is a challenge. There's a real prize if you get it right, but again, there's a lot more work involved in pulling together a team. The team has to go together, and the conflicts have to be resolved." (00:50 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "Everyone wants a team or a group because it lowers the risk profile of doing these deals in the marketplace. They have a better traction rate in terms of… They don't stick around for a lot longer. They're embedded in the organization. They don't leave as easily. There are obviously integration issues, but with the onesies and twosies, a lot of management time is spent just bringing those people to the line." (01:24 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "I think firms need to be focused and strategic, but they also need to be open-minded about how they go about that process." (05:11 | Chris Batz)

• "For firms to remain competitive, they have to think in larger acquisition sizes. But I respect firms that don't have a desire to grow in dramatic ways. Continuing to do what they've done because it works for them is fine but the competitive landscape is changing." (13:56 | Chris Batz)

Links

 Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"This is really new territory that is going to challenge the way some of these law firms are run and how the industry responds to that going forward over the next couple of years," says co-host Howard Rosenberg. In this episode, Howard and Chris Batz dive into the rising trend of superstar law partners landing eight-figure salaries and the major impact it's having on firm management, client relationships, and talent acquisition.

As these high-profile lateral hires bring in up to $20 million, firms are being pushed to rethink compensation models and operations. Howard shares insights from his recent trip to London, where law firm leaders voiced mixed reactions. Some are worried about staying competitive, while others are dealing with pay scale compression, affecting both junior and senior attorneys. Could this shift spark a major overhaul in how firms operate and structure their fees?

The episode also looks at how technology, artificial intelligence, and market changes might shape the legal industry in the coming decade. Will firms adapt to these shifts, or face disruption? It's clear the legal landscape is at a turning point.

Quotes

• "This is really new territory that is going to challenge the way some of these law firms are run and how the industry responds to that going forward over the next couple of years. I think that's really exciting. It is what it is; it's not going to change, but how firms deal with and respond to it is an open book." (01:09 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "You have these firms hiring outrageous talent, entire teams following them, and the market consolidating with specialists going to the high-rate firms, leaving these 600-plus firms holding the bag. They are now forced to make really difficult decisions. It's amazing to see the effects of COVID, the expectations for first-year associate salaries skyrocketing—what, $215k now, I believe—and this new superstar level of talent is taking material percentage points of revenue away from firms to platforms that can truly resource them in ways others can't even come close to. So yes, it's absolutely changing the game." (05:49 | Chris Batz) 

• "I'm curious what the implications will be for new attorney hires and the junior partners who are looking at the ranks and wondering, 'Where's my future in this firm?' And then there's the vision coming from the leadership team as the firm continues to evolve, with such a huge, almost moon-like presence coming into the orbit of the firm, affecting the entire ecosystem." (07:58 | Chris Batz)

• "I think you're going to see a whole change in the industry with technology coming on board, along with AI, talent, and pricing. All these ingredients are mixing in a way that will change the very dynamics of the industry going forward." (11:00 | Howard Rosenberg)
  

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Law firms everywhere are debating private equity. Sir Nigel Knowles has already lived the full arc, from global expansion to IPO to take-private.

Joining hosts Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, the former global managing partner of DLA Piper and former CEO of DWF unpacks a career built on bold growth and tough calls. He shares how a 90-person practice in Sheffield became DLA Piper through disciplined strategy, relentless execution, and a shift from territorial "country barons" to one global firm. He walks through the three-way merger that hit at exactly the right moment, the lessons he carried from mentors like Senator George Mitchell, and why real leadership means setting direction and sustaining momentum long after the headlines fade.

Sir Nigel also pulls back the curtain on DWF's public listing and why the market ultimately couldn't support a professional services model. Taking the firm private with Inflexion unlocked capital, agility, and focus — a path he believes more firms will follow as technology, talent costs, and scale demands collide. His message to law firm leaders: build a coalition, define where you're going, and act. Consensus can come later. The firms that act with clarity and conviction will own the future of the profession.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 From Sheffield Practice to Global Expansion at DLA Piper  

05:01 Taking DWF Public: Why the IPO Model Fell Short  

08:07 Private Equity vs. Public Markets in Law Firms  

15:17 Leadership Lessons from Senator George Mitchell and Other Mentors  

15:10 Strategy, Culture, and Conviction in Firm Growth  

22:08 The Future of Law Firm Consolidation and Capital Models  

28:30 Sir Nigel's Advice to Managing Partners, Act Before Consensus

Connect with Sir Nigel Knowles:

Connect with Sir Nigel on LinkedIn

Sir Nigel's Website Bio

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

Connect with Howard on LinkedIn

Howard's Company Web Profile

Connect with Chris Batz:

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn 

Follow Columbus Street on LinkedIn

Columbus Street Website 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"For a lot of law firm leaders that I'm in contact with, this is their central challenge: to chart a path of sustained growth." says new co-host Howard Rosenberg who joins co-host Chris Batz to continue their discussion about the best way for law firms to form, based on data and intelligence, a structured strategy approach to growth through acquisition. 

It's not easy, Chris explains, and requires discipline, long term thinking, and learning to "say no to the shiny objects." Law firms remain people-first industry built on talent wherein, nonetheless, that very personnel tends to turn over quickly, among other daily changes and distractions.Therefore it's important to form a well-defined, codified plan with solid parameters and to be able to communicate it clearly across the entire team.

Join today's discussion to learn why Chris says strategy is king and to hear Howard delve into the true meaning of growth.

Quotes

• "For a lot of law firm leaders that I'm in contact with, this is their central challenge: to chart a path of sustained growth. The question is, 'Where do they do it? What practice areas get the investment and which people in those practice areas get the priority for either acquisitions or just time and attention because one thing can't be done in isolation without understanding the rest of the firm. So, it's a really complex equation, but it's the route for growth." (0:51 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "Frankly, it's strategy. It's this idea of knowing what to say 'no' to and knowing what to say 'yes' to. This approach is structured, it's intentional, and it's avoiding the shiny objects that pull firms away from truly accomplishing their strategic goals."  (1:54 | Chris Batz) 

• "The most successful managing partners that I'm in contact with seem to realize they're in the talent business. It's a talent asset business, and the talent walks out the door every day and comes back in the morning, and I think you cannot grow without having the best people in the best seats within the law firm. And that changes your perspective about how you go for growth." (7:58 | Howard Rosenberg)

• "There's a trade-off. Someone's trading something when that's taking place. I have clients who do it. Some of it has to do with size, frankly. For the smaller firms, it's harder to dedicate time. Everyone's got to be rowing the same way and have to be contributing to the bottom line. Again it goes back to this fun topic of 'size matters.' (10:02 | Chris Batz)

• "Growth —what does that mean? I still come back to the definition of growth. It may not be purely revenue growth. It may be doing more interesting work or more sustained work that has less pricing variability…Every firm has to take this decision for themselves; it's not a cookie-cutter approach." (11:23 | Howard Rosenberg)

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It's not where I thought I was going to wind up, but it's been a very, very fulfilling journey," says Howard Rosenberg, today's guest—who will be joining Chris Batz as co-host—on The Future is Bright podcast. On this episode, Howard recalls his journey from graduating from the prestigious Rhode Island School of Design with a degree in architecture, to finding himself unexpectedly working in corporate law after graduating from Cambridge University in the UK with an MBA. Though they may seem worlds apart, Howard has learned that each field is ultimately concerned with people and finding the best way to solve problems. 

Howard describes his time at the firm which was then known as Berwin Leighton Paisner where he had a "ringside view" as to just how mergers worked. He describes what it was like to use technology to advance the drafting of contracts just as the internet was taking off, and how this led to his role as CEO of Be Professional, which handled compliance work for small businesses,  a collaboration with global consulting firm Deloitte, and the first company founded by both a law firm and a Big Four accountants and practice company. 

In keeping with his people-centered business practices, Howard is currently Partner and Head of Talent Intelligence and Acquisitions at Baretz+Brunelle, where he helps firms learn the most about potential partner recruits to ensure they're betting wisely on the future success of their firm. He explains his "money ball" analogy which has gotten attention lately in the press, and whether or not he is the Billy Bean of lateral partner recruiting.  

Quotes 

• "I think the skillset is completely different. It's all about people, but I think lawyers come to the table who are very intellectually gifted individuals. Dealing with architects is a creative kind of endeavor. They're kind of chalk and cheese, but they're trying to get things done, they're trying to solve problems." (04:01 | Howard Rosenberg)

• "That's what's interesting about my career, even going to architecture school: it's all transferable skills about learning how to solve problems, it's just that I do it in a visual way, and now in the business community, I'm kind of rewarded from a strategy/BD perspective about helping clients solve their problems around talent acquisition…It's all been a very interesting journey. It's not where I thought I was going to wind up, but it's been a very, very fulfilling career journey today." (04:24 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "Of all those roles that I was involved in, all those great people, for me it always came down to the people. And I saw firsthand how interesting and challenging it was to invite law firm partners to join the partnership through the lateral acquisition process and I thought there had to be a better way to streamline this process." (11:20 | Howard Rosenberg) 

• "You're betting. These people are not inexpensive. You're betting the future reputation of the firm on a handful of people that could really move the dial in a practice area and a geographic location. And I think the time has come that firms can do this; they see talent as an asset class, and that's totally new territory." (15:15 | Howard Rosenberg)

Links

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"What makes your brand unique is a combination of tangible and intangible things," explains Gary Singer, Chief Strategy Officer at Kobre & Kim LLP, who joins The Future is Bright podcast. Gary shares the remarkable story of driving the Altoids brand, which was virtually unknown outside the United States, to astronomical sales. In today's episode, he discusses his unique approach to branding, which he calls "meaningful differentiation," and explains the "outside-in" approach that has contributed to his success.

Many entrepreneurs focus on themselves and the 'what' they offer consumers, but Gary emphasizes the importance of focusing on 'who'—identifying a need and learning how to fill it. He shares how, during research for Altoids, they created a target customer named Dan and even had consumers write obituaries for the product to gauge emotional connections.

Gary brought his unique branding approach to the law firm Kobre & Kim LLP. Learn about the innovations happening there and why Gary believes the hardest choice is what to say no to.

Quotes

• "As the product management industry matured, agencies became more and more focused on the creative side and a little less focused on the strategy side. So that's when I decided I didn't feel like I continued to have a big enough seat at the table. So, made the switch to McKinsey as a partner, as a direct-to-life partner focused on financial service institutions. And there the idea was the intersection of the creative thinking that I had done at an agency with the linear analytic part of me that came from places like University of Chicago." (3:59 | Gary Singer)

• "Brand is your unique collection of tangible and intangible benefits. In my mind, for a brand to matter, it needs to communicate meaningful differences versus the alternative. So, if Brand A and Brand B are identical, then the brand doesn't matter, because I have the same tangible and emotional connections to both of them." (13:24 | Gary Singer) 

• "There's a little bit of Dan in all of us. I'm a lot older than 26 right now, but I still would like to be a college kid with resources, and that's what appealed to this broad group of people. As it's become more and more of a mass brand, I think it's losing Dan a little bit and it's trying to appeal to everybody and maybe losing a little bit of its magic." (16:52 | Gary Singer)

• "Strategy is making choices and the hardest choice to make is the choice of what you're not going to do." (26:32 | Gary Singer)

Links

Connect with Gary Singer:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyisinger/

Law Firm web profile: https://kobrekim.com/people/gary-singer

Columbia Business School Professor website: https://business.columbia.edu/faculty/people/gary-i-singer

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

As the legal profession evolves, the importance of C-suite executives in law firms is rising. Jennifer Johnson, CEO of Calibrate, shares her vision for a future where these executives are equal to managing partners and report to a board.

Calibrate is a management consulting and executive search firm that places top talent in essential C-suite roles within corporate law firms, freeing lawyers to focus on their practice. Jennifer sees these "revenue enablers" as vital for providing the business expertise needed to navigate the industry's significant changes and challenges.

In this episode of The Future is Bright, Jennifer talks with host Chris Batz about the current state of leadership in the law firm industry, the recruiting process and more. She also shared a personal story of triumph sure to encourage anyone faced with life challenges. 

Tune in to hear her inspiring story and several insights for Law Firm executives!

Quotes

• "The candidates we present to our clients understand a law firm's business and not just their subject matter expertise. They know how to apply that and then work across the business. And, that's been a breath of fresh air for a lot of law firm leaders." (4:18 | Jennifer Johnson) 

• "They really do want to practice law, the lawyers, for the most part, that's what they want to do. So, bringing in these business professionals to help them run the business with them and for them is the smartest thing any of them could do. The day of running law firms by committee and total consensus—I'm not sure you can do that anymore and survive at the rate and pace of change that's happening."  (11:32 | Jennifer Johnson) 

• "Just because somebody is really good at making rain, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be the best leader." (16:15 | Jennifer Johnson)

• "At the end of the day, your lawyers are your salesforce. You've got a salesforce that are not trained to be salespeople." (19:58 | Jennifer Johnson)

Links

Connect with Jennifer Johnson:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferjohnsoncalibrate/

Website - https://calibrate-strategies.com/about-calibrate/calibrate-team/jennifer-johnson/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Built on a foundation of collaboration, relationship, and trust, Munsch Hardt Kopf & Harr, a top Dallas-based corporate law firm recognized as one of the city's best places to work, has strategically served their clients since its founding in 1985. These core values have remained steadfast, even as the market has rapidly evolved, staying true to their Texas roots. 

Phil Appenzeller, CEO of Munsch Hardt Kopf & Harr, discusses what makes the firm special and a couple of reasons why it won Dallas' award for Best Places to Work for nine out of ten years. He highlights how truly caring for employees at every level contributes to a sticky work culture, leading many to spend their entire careers at the firm.

Tune in to this episode of The Future is Bright to discover what's next for Phil as he concludes his tenure as CEO, including a return to litigation and writing a musical! 

Quotes

• "Lawyers are so relational based, it's not like you're coming in and doing an audit on a company. You're actually coming in, sitting down with a client—I've got an individual client right now who's trying to sell oil and gas interests and—you develop those relationships. I think it's just a little bit different than those accounting firms that are a little bit more institutionalized." (8:12 | Phil Appenzeller) 

• "I think clients want to know that if they hire Phil Appenzeller, they're getting Phil Appenzeller. They're not getting punted off to some other attorney that they don't know. I go back to the relational—I just think the practice of law is still relational. I think clients want that relationship. I think the second thing they want is value. Everybody talks about rates. I'm not sure rates are as big an issue as it is 'Did I get value for the work that was done?'" (8:41 | Phil Appenzeller) 

• "You want to create a place where people are happy coming to work. I always tell people when they ask, 'Why do you stay at 'Munsch?' I say, 'My best friends are here.'" (22:58 | Phil Appenzeller) 

Links

Connect with Phil Appenzeller:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-appenzeller-59895319/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Columbus Street LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street

The Lion Group LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-lion-group-llc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"I have been really, really lucky in every move that I've made to be with really bright people and just be allowed to learn from them," says today's guest Aaron Crews who currently serves as chief product and innovation officer and head of enterprise at data and professional services company UnitedLex. On today's episode of The Future is Bright, Aaron discusses his career trajectory, what it was like living in Silicon Valley at the peak of the tech boom, his innovation role at Littler and the tools he helped to develop. He also describes what he learned about improving business through technology while working for Walmart as Senior Associate General Counsel and head of e-discovery and why Bentonville, a small town in northwest Arkansas is the coolest city in the world. 

AI, Aaron says, is following the same circuit—from service providers, to law firms and then in-house—as e-discovery did nearly fifteen years ago. As writing constitutes such a large part of a lawyer's training, what will the generation of lawyers look like as AI writing programs all but do the work for them? Aaron shares his thoughts on the ability of AI to help people move up the food chain as well as potentially reengineer the fundamentals of an entire industry. 

What does this mean for a firm whose philosophy is human first, technology second? Join today's discussion to learn more. 

Quotes

• "One of my superpowers is, I'm too dumb to be afraid." (8:07 | Aaron Crews) 

• "It's a small but deep community and all of those people taught me a lot in the process. Sometimes it was a lesson in a case, the other side, at the end of something. And sometimes it was just sitting down and talking to people. 'How do you think about that? Why do you do it that way? What do you think that should be?' People are just kind enough to share the way they think so that I can absorb it." (11:44 | Aaron Crews) 

• "The service providers were the first mover [of e-discovery], law firms then came next and then in-house started saying, 'How much of this can we bring in and run ourselves?' And I think you're seeing that same process replay with AI now and so UnitedLex, in that service provider space really has been the opportunity for the last several years to really get deep in how far you can push the data science envelope in the name of helping and improving and expanding legal services." (34:24 | Aaron Crews)

• "We build and train lawyers largely through the writing process. Reading. Writing. We build arguments through writing, we refine arguments through writing. We initially assert them through writing and then the oral argument phase is the nuances and the 'well, what about's. That entire paradigm is eviscerated in a decade. And what is the model that we're going to use to build and train lawyers if they're not writing anything from scratch?" (48:02 | Aaron Crews) 

Links

Connect with Aaron Crews:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ediscoverycounsel/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Columbus Street: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Marty Cohn, the National Director of Client Engagement at Sheppard Mullin, has a diverse background with significant experience in both consulting and legal sectors in the U.S. Initially steering clear of sales in favor of marketing, Marty's perspective shifted as he recognized the importance of accountability and return on investment (ROI) in marketing, sparking a newfound enthusiasm for sales. In this episode of The Future Is Bright podcast, he sits down with host Chris Batz to delve into the nuances of selling professional services, emphasizing the foundational role of relationships, people, and trust.

During his tenure as the marketing director for the national sports sector at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Marty played a pivotal role in elevating the firm to a leading position among the Big Four's sports practices. He also shares insights from a survey he conducted at Sheppard Mullin, where he gathered opinions from 31 marketing professionals on the current state of sales. Marty discusses his method for identifying potential clients and the criticality of adhering to the American Bar Association's (ABA) best practices.

Join today's discussion to hear his thoughts on the difference between the worlds of accounting/consulting and the law business, the infinite value of LinkedIn and how he manages to mentor others without actually acting as a mentor.

Quotes

• "In our business, we're talking about relationships and respect and trust and every interaction is different and every marketing and sales opportunity is different because you're dealing with a person, not an inanimate object." (2:06 | Marty Cohn) 

• "It's a matter of respect and best practices. This is a relationship business, our opportunity to bring in a new client is going to be based on our ability to build a trusted relationship with transparency." (16:54 | Marty Cohn) 

• "My day is a mix of always looking for potential new clients, following up on existing sales opportunities, following up and being involved in active sales opportunities, working with my partners and our internal teams on all of these pursuits. It's a big mix." (18:15 | Marty Cohn)

• "I think there's so much potential here in our business. It's tremendously rewarding. I find it to be challenging, fun, every adjective that you can give it is probably in my vocabulary of what goes on day-to-day." (21:55 | Marty Cohn)

Links

Connect with Marty Cohn:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-cohn-b890363/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It's culture through and through," says Micheal Pierson about Pierson Ferdinand LLC, which he co-chairs with Joel Ferdinand and which recently launched one of the largest law firm launches in U.S. history, counting over 130 partners. The two men join host Chris Batz to discuss the firm, why it's both ahead of its time and bolstered by timeless principles. Pierson Ferdinand, they say, is about people, happiness and freedom. Where many firms, particularly older ones, are hesitant to embrace technology, theirs thrives on it and the two co-chairs have been practicing the post-COVID-style work model for years now. Having witnessed bosses and supervisors do all the wrong things, they strive to create an open-door environment, where every employee can make their concerns known. They know the importance of listening more than they speak, of admitting they're wrong—neither of which is easy for lawyers—and putting family first. It's a mission of service, Joel says, that borders on the biblical. 

In this episode, he and Michael discuss the changing legal landscape in a post-COVID world and in a current climate which includes the war in Ukraine, a potential uncoupling with China, issues with the U.S.'s membership in NATO. What opportunities does all this present for lawyers in the U.S., the largest legal market in the world? Since COVID accelerated profitability of so many Adlaw's Top 100 and 200 firms, what does this mean for billable time? What do clients and lawyers want?

On this episode of The Future is Bright, Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explore these issues as well as surprising new developments in the last two years which, they say, could push us into a whole new world. 

Quotes

• "We've started to see a large uptick in lawyers who are looking for better options who are looking for better alternatives than just practicing at a very large law firm environment. And that's in large part what Pierson Ferdinand aims to do, which is to redefine the notion of what an elite law firm can be." (4:45 | Michael Pierson) 

• "Law firms are very resistant to change, being as old as many of them are. And I completely understand that, Michael completely understands that. Clients want change." (5:48 | Joel Ferdinand)

• "It's a pretty turbulent time and it's one of these times where we can be a very steady hand for our clients in their business affairs, but fundamentally it's a tumultuous time to be on this planet." (12:34 | Michael Pierson)

• "This is one of the core tenets of Pierson Ferdinand: it's culture through and through."  (13:32 | Michael Pierson) 

• "Lawyers typically are so antagonistic to tech." (23:56 | Joel Ferdinand)

• "To me, this is biblical. When Michael said we believe in service and leadership, we do. That comes from something very specific for me, and much like Michael said, I watched for close to 20 years of a career, would-be bosses or supervisors even in my early stages, be awful. They'd yell at you, they'd cuss at you, they'd haze you. Because they thought that was the cultural environment of a law firm, or of a business. And I watched it from a distance before I got into C-suites and once I got into C-suites, I watched it closely and tried to do something different." (31:39 | Joel Ferdinand) 

Links

Connect with Michael Pierson | Co-Chairman & Corporate:

Website: https://pierferd.com/michael-pierson

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amichaelpierson/

Joel Ferdinand | Co-Chairman & Litigation:

Website: https://pierferd.com/joel-m-ferdinand

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-ferdinand-a7518519/

https://pierferd.com/news/pierson-ferdinand-debuts

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"You can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability," says Dan Binstock who, with Gary Miles, returns to the podcast to discuss the latest trends in corporate law partnership. More and more major law firms are shortening the length of time it takes for their associates to make partner, or bestowing the title of partner to those who are, in practice, really senior associates. This allows firms to to charge partner-level prices while clients receiving associate-level prices. This raises issues about quality,integrity, transparency. How long can such a practice continue before firms' integrity and performance are sacrificed for short-term profitability? What happens when firms over-leverage themselves? 

By misrepresenting their statistics, Gary explains, more and more firms are robbing valuable players of their due recognition and compensation, and the profits are split among a larger pool of people. Part of the problem is the psychological pressure on both sides–firms don't want to look like they're not expanding (and therefore falling behind), and so they offer partnerships to candidates who want to feel like they have a seat at the table. 

Part of a recruiter's job, Dan explains, is to help partners understand what equity means at different firms. He, Gary, and Chris discuss what will happen when, with inflation, rates continue to go up and the inevitable pullback comes. They also explain why firms should think in terms of categories and not tiers. 

Quotes

• "There are a whole bunch of other reasons, like recruiting benefits and profitabilities increasing and going so much higher, you can only divvy up the pie so much and distribute it so much before it starts eating into the profitability. And as we've got groups and groups of people who are really skilled but  may not have the business development chops to bring in as much business, putting them into equity may dilute the profits." (11:23 | Dan)

• "More firms are increasingly needing a home for the people whom they don't want to lose, who are very, very valuable but who aren't yet equity-ready, for one reason or another. They're losing these people to other firms who are saying, 'Come over here, we'll make you an equity partner.' And it's an ego and a marketing thing–well, calling it an ego thing is not fair. It's not just ego, it's marketing and feeling like even if you've got a small seat at the table, it's still some type of seat." (12:04 | Dan)

• "You could be a partner that's on the lower end, or in the middle, and you did what you were supposed to do but you didn't receive any overrun. It has nothing to do with the firm's performance. The firm took that money, put it into their bonus pool that all equity partners share in, but then disperses it very unevenly." (18:19 | Gary)

• "I think, really, the whole term of equity, at a lot of firms, is just that: it's just nomenclature. We all know, at most firms, you have as much equity as the contribution you make to the firm, usually in the form of business. That's generally where the equity lies." (20:04 | Gary) 

• "One thing we don't talk enough about–and this plays at the associate level but plays even more at the partner level of recruiting–is how much psychological and political stuff is baked into the cake already. How important it is for law firm leaders, or the pressure law firm leaders feel, to stay consistent in where they are or rising in the 'outward presentation of a hierarchical ecosystem of firms.'" (35:06 | Gary)

Links

Bloomberg Law Article: One Tiny Number Shows Why More Firms Want Non Equity Partners

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/one-tiny-number-shows-why-more-firms-want-nonequity-partners

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Garrison: https://g-s.com

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/

Connect with Gary Miles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Why do we have this problem with such smart people, the brightest of the brights, attorneys at such top firms, getting wrapped up with shady people?" asks Dan Binstock, who returns, with Gary Miles, to the podcast to discuss the less-than-ethical practices employed by legal recruiters that potential candidates need to watch out for. Part of the problem, they explain, is that for all of their advanced education, most candidates are woefully uneducated in this area of recruiting, not to mention many firms fall for the fallacy that if they're not actively growing they're shrinking. So, a fast-talking, sales-focused recruiter who's willing to cut ethical corners and appeal to a candidates' healthy ego, can convince the candidate to make a decision that could alter the course of their career. 

The answer, they agree, is doing the same due diligence as a candidate that one does as a lawyer. Ask the right questions, many examples of which are provided in today's discussion. Take your time; listen to what is said and what is not said. Don't fall for fast answers or, as Gary says, give the recruiter an inch of rope and let them think they're a cowboy. 

Dan and Chris act out a series of role plays to give you a better idea of how to remain in control of the conversation with deceptive legal recruiters. They'll also go over the importance of expressed consent when closing out a conversation. 

Quotes

• "A lot of people who are drawn to recruiting or sales in general tend to be people that, maybe are really good talkers, and may not have the highest ethical barometers and may fudge the corners a little bit." (7:32 | Dan) 

• "A lot of firms think that if they do the deal with the "unethical recruiter" at least, for some period of time, according to their fee agreement, the person will not call in their lawyers to try to move someone out of their firm. So it gets to be a cost/benefit analysis."  (14:12 | Gary)

• "You do so much diligence, so much preparation, so much finding out what is going to impact your clients' situation in any given context or business that they're involved in. Yet, when it comes to a partner's career, and making one of the most important decisions they're going to make if I'm going to move from my firm, if so, where? What will be the best fit for me and my practice? What is the potential for long term success? A lot of partners won't do any diligence." (20:25 | Gary) 

• "If they can't speak about the search for at least 60 seconds, they don't know. They're just going off, you can hear them looking at a website. 'Oh, this is a firm that has offices in Washington, DC, New York, Charlotte, Chicago, Boston, yeah, nine offices in…' And if it looks like they're reading through a script? Bulls**t." (29:42 | Dan)

Links

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Garrison: https://g-s.com

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/

Connect with Gary Miles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Private equity is circling the legal industry, and Lucian Pera is helping make sense of what that means for MSO law firms and beyond. 

Joining Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, Lucian breaks down how management services organizations (MSOs) and alternative business structures (ABSs) are giving outside investors new ways to participate in the economics of law - without running afoul of ethics rules like ABA Rule 5.4.

Lucian makes it clear that these models are tools, not shortcuts. For some firms, an MSO structure may unlock the capital needed for technology, acquisitions, or ambitious growth plans. For others, a traditional loan or internal funding might make more sense. The critical step, he argues, is matching structure to strategy, rather than chasing the latest buzz.

As interest from PE firms and family offices surges, the profession faces a choice: see outside money as a threat, or recognize the opportunities it brings to modernize how law firms operate. Lucian leans toward the latter. Just as medicine and accounting were reshaped by investment, he believes law is in the midst of its own slow-motion revolution where the business side of the profession is finally catching up with reality. For lawyers and investors alike, understanding MSOs, ABSs, and the ethics that govern them is a glimpse into where the legal market is headed next.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Lucian Pera

01:04 MSO Law Firms Explained

05:09 Rule 5.4 and Legal Compliance

09:19 Market Trends and Investor Interest

15:45 Which Law Firms Are Using MSOs

18:17 Private Capital: Threat or Opportunity?

25:19 ABS Structures in Law Firms

30:10 ABS vs. MSO: Key Differences

32:10 Future Outlook for Law Firms and PE

Connect with Lucian Pera:

Connect with Lucian on LinkedIn

Lucian's Website Bio 

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

Connect with Howard on LinkedIn

Howard's Company Web Profile

Connect with Chris Batz:

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn 

Follow Columbus Street on LinkedIn

Columbus Street Website 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

What does it take to be a rainmaker? Scott Love is here to tell you. An award-winning legal recruiter, keynote speaker, author and podcast host, he's also a former Naval officer, professional card-counting black jack player and currently a passionate painter. All of these varied experiences have taught him invaluable lessons about leadership, business development, sales and growth, and he joins Chris today to share some of these lessons. 

People are always observing and firms will find any reason to disqualify people, he explains. You must give them a reason to trust you and see you as a leader. This means being humble enough to recognize what you don't know, and be willing to learn–for the rest of your life. This develops an unshakeable sense of self and authenticity that will naturally encourage people to follow you. 

He'll share what works and doesn't work for getting hired by law firms, especially when many are hesitant to want to grow. Cultivating yourself and being well-rounded help you define your core values and life purpose, which will set you apart as a rainmaker. 

Quotes

• "Most of it was taking my lunch hour, and instead of watching Matlock reruns, I would watch Tony Burn training tapes. Okay, VHS tape, Steve Finkel. And I, anytime I would make a placement when I started my own thing, I would say, 'I'm going to take 10% of my fees and invest it in coaching, seminars, books, CDs.' Anytime there's a motivational speaker coming to town, I would go to it. Whatever they're selling, I'm buying. So that was my whole philosophy, and still to this day, there is more that I don't know than what I do know, and until that changes, I'm always going to consider myself a student." (3:36 | Scott)

• "One thing that I learned was that if I put 100% into something, I'm gonna get 100% return. If I put 80% into something I'm gonna get about a 20% return." (5:26 | Scott) 

• "Trust me on this. When you know exactly who you are, what motivates you and where you're going, that becomes incredibly attractive to other people. People don't want to be pushed, but they're OK following someone. So you have to become someone who is followable." (14:20 | Scott)

• If you follow certain principles of game theory in client development, that helps you to number one, make effective decisions; number two, be effective in your execution; and number three, take the sting out of disappointment. And in business development, there is disappointment every day. That's 80% of it." (21:04 | Scott)

• "I look for people that have leadership skills. I don't care how much time you spent in the library. Tell me what you did before. Tell me about where you were. Did you play sports? Were you a  musician? You've got to practice three or four hours a day as a kid without your mom telling you to do it, and you've got to take direction, and realize it's not all about you in a symphony. So those are the things that I think make a richer experience in life and also add to the zest of an organization." (24:47 | Scott)

Links

Connect with Scott Love:

Podcast: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

Website: https://attorneysearchgroup.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Stepping into the complex world of 'magic circle' law firms, Dan Binstock from Garrison, a DC-based attorney search firm, joins forces with Gary Miles, President and CEO of Miles Partner Placement. They're back on the podcast to shed light on the strategic growth challenges and opportunities for these elite law firms. They tackle the critical need for firms to differentiate themselves in a competitive market, cautioning against unnecessary changes. The conversation also covers the recent Allen & Overy and Shearman & Sterling merger, illustrating the struggles magic circle firms face when trying to expand beyond New York.

The episode takes an intriguing turn with a discussion on the closure of Stroock & Stroock & Lavan after nearly 150 years. Dan shares an insightful story that might have signaled early signs of trouble for the firm. Gary points out that ups and downs are part of a firm's life cycle, highlighting the importance of strong leadership and strategic planning.

Throughout the discussion, the respect these industry experts have for each other is clear. Tune in to gain valuable insights into what lies ahead for corporate law firms.

Quotes

• "I think some of the magic circle firms may not have anticipated some of the challenges in getting US partners to buy into the global platform. I think there are benefits to certain practice areas, but as a whole, it's not always the easiest sell, despite having a lot of positive elements." (4:00 | Dan Binstock) 

• "There's one theme that usually runs through most firms: crashes. We're talking big and even small, and one thing that you can always look to is, 'Does the firm have a succession plan for leadership? Does the firm have leadership, that is, the old terms of where they want to take the firm and grow it from the base of where it is, or is the firm leadership reacting to situations that the firm is constantly faced with in a competitive market?" (11:12 | Gary Miles)

• "I think the lesson learned is that firms shouldn't wait until things on a scale of one to 10 are at an eight and till they're being reactive, like Gary's saying, when things get to like a five or six in any situation is when the rumbling starts, you almost have to be a little bit more paranoid about the rumbling to be proactive." (13:57 | Dan Binstock)

• "I think firms that want to be strategic and impactful in their growth really do need to figure out how they are distinguishing themselves from the herd in the marketplace. What is it about them, their infrastructure, their culture, their platform, how they internally do things that makes them different from firms XYZ?" (21:52 | Gary Miles) Audiogram

• "You never know what slogan or statement or principle that gets pulled out. If it's emphasized the right way, in the right story context, by a talented, experienced recruiter, you can never measure the impact of that." (26:17 | Gary Miles)

Links

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Garrison: https://g-s.com

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com/

Connect with Gary Miles:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Miles Partner Placement: https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"We are both keeper-in-touchers," says Jason Levin, author of the book Relationships to Infinity, which studies the art and science of keeping in touch. He and his wife Lori Mihalich-Levin first met on September 11, 2001 in France and stayed in contact as Lori built her law career and Jason built a career which includes his current role as a keynote speaker, trainer and business development coach at Ready, Set, Launch. This practice of keeping in touch has carried over into their married life as well. In a conversation at the kitchen sink, having put their two young sons to bed, Lori asked why there wasn't a program to help new parents navigate their personal and professional lives. After Jason asked her what she could do to solve the problem, she began in earnest what would become Mindful Returns, a program which guides new parents transition back to work after parental leave. 

The two touch base each Saturday night by consolidating what they call the "daily detritus" into one basket in order to tackle the duties of parenthood together. This idea was inspired by Atul Gawande's "Checklist Manifesto. The two have also been inspired by Eve Rodsky's book "Fair Play," and they discuss the importance of a balanced division of labor in a household.

Lori and Jason's support for one another is obvious. Join today's discussion to hear their advice on how to write a book or make a speech in public and find out how Jason earned the name The TicTac Guy!

Quotes

• "The foundation of Relationships to Infinity is the social science behind networks, and how we think about our approach to connection and reconnection. Lori was just talking about the fact that we both are 'keeper-in-touchers.' There's actually a lot of social science behind that." (8:44 | Jason)

• "I said to my dear husband, 'There should be a program out there, a class I can take about how to transition into working parenthood. I can take a class on how to massage my baby, puree baby food, make a birth plan. I can't take a class on how to navigate the personal and professional identity crisis I'm having as I become a working parent. And Jason said, 'Well, what are you going to do about it?' And thus, the program that I created, Mindful Return, was born." (10:53 | Lori)

• "Too often when we think about building something entrepreneurial, it has to be in the garage, venture funded, all these things. But what if you take little bite sized pieces with mind numbing detail on a weekly basis and you build something?" (14:26 | Jason) 

• "There are so many dual career working couples these days, that this is an issue and it spills into the workplace too. Because if you have if you're doing 90% of the mental work of your household, you're just not able to focus on your job as much as someone who is doing 10% of the mental work of a household." (21:52 | Lori) 

• "Parenthood made me so much of a better public speaker, because before we had kids, I would stew about the slides. And I would sit there and analyze them, and I'd memorize my script. And then we had kids, and I said, 'I don't have time for any of that. And I just showed up as who I was, and I was much more spontaneous, and I hadn't over prepared anything, and people liked that better." (33:14 | Lori)

Links

The Checklist Manifesto - Atul Gawal https://a.co/d/hppObRx

Fair Play: A Game-Changing Solution for When You Have Too Much to Do

By Eve Rodsky https://a.co/d/6ZoaX2O

Parents at Work Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/parents-at-work/id1239258343

Connect with  Lori Mihalich-Levin:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorimihalichlevin/

Mindful Return https://www.mindfulreturn.com/

Lori's book - Back to Work After Baby - https://www.mindfulreturn.com/back-work-after-baby-book/

Connect with Jason Levin:

READY, SET, LAUNCH readysetlaunch.net

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonlevinspeakertrainercoach/

Jason's book - Relationships to Infinity

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hilary Gerzhoy has devoted her career to maintaining the highest standards of ethics in legal practice. As a seasoned litigator, she boasts an impressive array of accomplishments, including her pivotal role on the ethics and compliance team during the Biden/Harris transition to the White House in 2020. Presently, she holds the positions of partner and Vice Chair of the Legal Ethics Group at HWG LLP. In addition to her practice, she enriches minds as an adjunct professor of Law and Legal Ethics at Georgetown University and serves diligently as the Vice Chair of the D.C. Bar's Rules of Professional Conduct Committee. With such a rich background in legal ethics, who could be better suited to join "The Future is Bright" podcast? Hilary is here to share crucial advice on navigating the nuanced, yet critically important, aspects of making a lateral move to a new law firm, and to guide listeners in creating a comprehensive plan for a smooth, ethically sound transition.

For U.S. lawyers, adherence to the Rules of Professional Conduct is paramount, and this commitment extends to the specific codes of their firms and the stipulations of their employment contracts—no matter how long ago they were signed. Even the smallest misstep by a partner can give their current firm grounds to meticulously scrutinize the lawyer's entire tenure with the organization. Hilary has witnessed firms initiate formidable attacks against individuals attempting to make a move.

Hilary asserts that nearly all the potential pitfalls associated with transitioning between firms are avoidable. By participating in today's discussion, she is here to share strategies and precautions necessary to sidestep these challenges, paving the way for a seamless transition.

Quotes

• "There's a number of loopholes that somebody can fall into if they're not cognizant of it. And usually, it's not because they're trying to purposely not follow the rules, just because they're not thinking about how to navigate this process." (23:39 | Hilary)

• "What I have seen is, the bigger the book of business, the more contentious the fight can be." (24:37 | Hilary)

• "If you're thinking about making a move, you want to think about what you need to do at your existing firm and where you want to go. And there are two stages of this." (25:27 | Hilary)

• "You essentially give a blueprint of what your practice will look like, if the firm were to hire you. What you want to be able to do is deliver on that. There are certain things that are beyond your control in delivering on that, and you want to try to get everything squared away to the extent that you can ahead of time." (32:05 | Hilary)

Links

Connect with Hilary Gerzhoy:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-gerzhoy/

Law firm website bio: https://hwglaw.com/members/hilary-p-gerzhoy/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"When people think of Warren Buffet they think investor and business icon, but he is an expert in corporate governance." 

On today's episode of "The Future is Bright," Larry Cunningham, special counsel at Mayer Brown, tells the story of his organizing and hosting a two-day symposium with business magnate Warren Buffett at Cardozo Law School in 1996. The intellectual traction and gains produced therein–a rare occurrence for such high-level discussions–were aided by the moderation of Charlie Munger, who has been called Warren Buffet's closest partner at Buffett's holding firm Berkshire Hathaway. Given Buffett's valuable insights into corporate governance, Larry wanted to call greater attention to Buffet's largely scattered and isolated writings, and used them as the basis for the panel discussions. The results became the best-selling book "The Essays of Warren Buffett: Lessons for Corporate America." Larry recalls his efforts to almost single-handedly print and distribute the book in response to the almost immediate demand for it.

The foundational feature at Berkshire Hathaway is trust, Larry says, in contrast to the American business model standard of policies, controls and procedures. Buffett operates under the assumption that most people are not trustworthy, but that a much smaller number of people are infinitely so. He surrounds himself with select members of the latter. Even when organizing the symposium, Buffett was very hands-off, never second-guessing his proposals and leaving all decisions in Larry's hands. 

Recently Larry has pivoted away from academia and toward the practice of law. He raises a new pressing issue regarding corporate governance: the extremes to which some groups have taken the Environmental Social and Governance (ESG) considerations for corporations as initiated by the UN. Hear his thoughts on this and more in today's discussion. 

Quotes

• "He was exactly as you perceive him in his public persona, and exactly as he behaves in his businesses, to wit: totally hands off, delegated everything to me, didn't second guess anything that I proposed…His management philosophy is to put decision-making power in the hands of the people closest to the issue." (6:47 | Larry)

• "We had 200 seats. You couldn't do a conference with Warren Buffet with 200 seats today. You could try to do, say, 40,000." (7:55 | Larry)

• "We had traction. Sometimes you get these gatherings together, and people just talk past each other and they leave in the same position in which they came. Here we had real engagement, identification of overlaps and reinterpretations of positions and some wonderful intellectual gains." (10:16 | Larry) 

• "I then went into marketing and letting everyone know, through direct mail. Again, this is pre- internet really, but some direct mailings. I created leaflets and I rode my bicycle over Manhattan dropping them off to all of the quality firms who would care about this, and word of mouth started to build." (18:23 | Larry)

• "Warren's relationship with all those people and with me which I saw firsthand was trust. Trust in all of those features, you see, a desire and a will, to trust." (22:52 | Larry)

Links

Connect with Larry Cunningham: 

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-cunningham-68b7574b/

Mayer Brown web bio https://www.mayerbrown.com/en/people/c/lawrence-cunningham?tab=overview

Amazon Author website and Books for sale:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IYVE0M

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Most people thinking about performance think about managers, products, and research. But it's also valuable to have a certain kind of shareholder," says Larry Cunningham.

Larry Cunningham, special counsel at Mayer Brown, has had a truly extraordinary career, rubbing shoulders with billionaires, sitting on the boards of large public companies, and writing 20 books. Larry recently joined Mayer Brown, a top law firm known for its strategic business model and commitment to sustainability and growth. In his role, Larry advises boards of public companies on corporate governance, leveraging his extensive experience and expertise in the field. His focus on long-term and quality shareholders aligns perfectly with Mayer Brown's philosophy, making it a natural fit. In addition to his work at Mayer Brown, Larry sits on the boards of several prestigious companies, including Constellation, Markel, and Kelly Plus Partners. These companies, known for their exceptional returns and commitment to autonomy, embody the values that Larry has championed throughout his career. His involvement in these boards allows him to contribute his wealth of knowledge and insights, further enhancing their success.

Throughout the episode, Larry's dedication to finding the right fit and adding value is evident in his approach to board service and his advice to others considering similar roles. Larry's journey serves as a reminder that with the right mindset and a commitment to excellence, one can achieve great success and make a meaningful impact in their chosen field.

Quotes:

• "What I liked about university life was exploring ideas and debating ideas and being able to write basically on any topic that I wanted. And all three of those schools, BC, GW & Cardozo, supported that. It was very important to me." (20:59 | Larry Cunningham)

• "We said, let's try to relate shareholder quality to, I think we ended up looking at 25 different important features of corporate life. Stock price volatility, we looked at brand strength, we looked at market share, we looked at stability of earnings, a variety of other things. We looked at very specific things like and from sort of the shareholder side, like board composition, attendance at shareholder meetings, quality of the shareholder letters that the CEO writes. And again, all that stuff is we ended up putting it all in pretty much one book called Quality Shareholders. And it's fascinating stuff. And it's more appreciated now than it used to be. But it's still a kind of a niche area." (29:33 | Larry Cunningham) 

• "I feel like I add value. I feel like I'm contributing something positive." (40:35 | Larry Cunningham)

Links

Connect with Larry Cunningham: 

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-cunningham-68b7574b/

Mayer Brown web bio https://www.mayerbrown.com/en/people/c/lawrence-cunningham?tab=overview

Amazon Author website and Books for sale:

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IYVE0M

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Sandra Cohen returns to "The Future is Bright" podcast for part two of her interview with Chris and to tell the story of how she became an executive compensation attorney at Cohen & Buckmann pc. Her journey was a steady upward trajectory where her fierce sense of independence and ambition served her well at every step. A Midwestern girl, she moved to New York City right out of college, looking for a more cosmopolitan experience. Within five days, she secured a job in HR at Manufacturers Hanover thanks to an informational interview with a Washington University alumnae.

Much of her business still comes from relationships she formed years ago, and Sandra advises young lawyers on long-term business development, taking initiative to form groups, and establishing yourself early on as a thought leader. Those with more experience should individuate themselves so that they aren't as reliant on their boss's view of their work. She explains what her job is and is not, what she still loves about it years later, and the unique challenges of the position. 

Recognizing that most executives in HR were lawyers, she enrolled in Yale law and upon graduating got a job with the Canadian branch of Osler, Hoskin and Harcourt. Though she saw prime examples of female leaders at this firm who were able to admirably balance work and life, sometimes, Sandra confesses, it's not balanced at all. As she tells her students at NYU, for the sake of both your personal and professional success, choose your spouse wisely.  

In between family and work, it's important to make time for fun. Hear Sandra discuss her hobbies– including a dedicated equestrian practice–and how she makes the best of New York's incomparable nightlife. 

Quotes

• "I'm still fascinated by the psychology of it, how groups work and how office politics work. And that still informs part of my job as an executive comp, attorney, helping organizations find what's the right incentive for their company, and why are they pursuing the stock option plan, do they have the other pieces other than money also in place?" (7:31 | Sandra)

• "Find something that interests you enough to write about and talk about, so that you have shown thought leadership, create your own blog, if your law firm doesn't have one, it doesn't matter. Write on LinkedIn, you don't have to get published by a major publisher to show that you know what you're talking about." (22:11 | Sandra)

• "It's not who you know, it's who knows you." (23:00 | Sandra) 

• "I think business development is really like watering a tree…And if you want to be sort of strategic and calculating about it, it's like, okay, how do I get more people to have known me a long time." (23:34 | Sandra) 
  

Links

Connect with Sandra Cohen:

Website Bio https://cohenbuckmann.com/sandra-w-cohen

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandracohenesq/

Top Seven Questions Executives Should Ask About Private Company Stock Options

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2020/7/13/top-seven-questions-executives-should-ask-about-private-company-stock-options

Profits Interests 101: A Crash Course in Profits Interests

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2022/7/27/profits-interests-101-a-crash-course-in-profits-interests

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"The most common thing I hear nearly every day on negotiations is, I hate negotiating my compensation. I usually ignore it, and now I've got this new offer or I'm getting a promotion." says executive compensation expert and attorney at Cohen and Buckmann, Sandra Cohen.

Sandra boasts over 30 years of hands-on experience, guiding top-tier professionals through pivotal moments in their careers. Listeners will gain an invaluable education as Sandra breaks down a job offer. Key components are highlighted including short-term and long-term compensation, sign-on bonuses, restrictive covenants, and the all-important severance protection. Sandra provides guidance on which questions to ask and when to broach specific topics. 

For those with an eye on equity as part of their compensation package, Sandra delves deeper into its complexities. She touches on the unique advantages and potential pitfalls between the equity offerings of public and private companies. Sandra offers key insights on navigating these differences, including how to evaluate the true value of such equity, understanding vesting schedules, and the implications of liquidity events such as an IPO or acquisition. Armed with this knowledge, listeners can better assess the weight and worth of equity in their compensation negotiations.

A standout segment in this episode tackles termination and severance clauses. Rather than shying away, Sandra advises listeners to approach this head-on during the hiring process, positioning it as an essential part of risk management and job security. She offers strategies for handling potential challenges such as changes in company leadership or shifts in job roles, and points out crucial considerations for options in private companies.

This episode is an essential guide for anyone stepping into a C-suite negotiation. With Sandra's advice, you'll be better able to advocate for yourself or partner with an executive negotiation attorney to secure the best compensation package possible on your behalf.

Quotes:

• "The number one thing you need to do is to find your original employment offer and save it at home, the signed one, because that is when somebody is already fired, it's hard to know where the starting place is. Please save your documents. (7:00 | Sandra Cohen) 

• "You can gain confidence going into a compensation negotiation with some data, with good data about what should the market range for this job be. There's always a range. It's a little easier to negotiate by talking about ranges, but make sure you're comfortable with the bottom of your range because as soon as you give a range, that's going to be the place that they start." (28:51 | Sandra Cohen) 

• An arbitration clause can be from three sentences to a page or two about how the arbitration is going to go. But the one thing that I might add on behalf of an executive is, okay, we'll do arbitration but the employer is going to pay the arbitrator's fee. That's actually more expensive than you would have thought paying an arbitrator. (48:15 | Sandra Cohen)

• I think banning non-competes is kind of a mistake but I'm of two minds on it because at the executive level it's something you can offer to contract for more money. If you are one of those key people with key secrets that is a legitimate business interest to keep you from working for our competitor, that could be a valuable thing that you can get paid for and if they're banned, it's value that should be contracted for that's sort of disappearing. (50:23 | Sandra Cohen)

Links:

Connect with Sandra Cohen:

Website Bio https://cohenbuckmann.com/sandra-w-cohen

LinkedIn Profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandracohenesq/

Top Seven Questions Executives Should Ask About Private Company Stock Options

https://cohenbuckmann.com/insights/2020/7/13/top-seven-questions-executives-should-ask-about-private-company-stock-options

 Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"According to Dan Binstock, successful partnerships rely on key factors such as people, practice, compensation, and confidence."

Join Chris Batz and Dan Binstock, a partner at Garrison & Sisson in Washington, DC, as they discuss the reasons why law partners decide to leave their current law firms. Dan outlines the top four reasons behind partner transitions, including concerns about firm leadership, inadequate practice support, compensation and profitability issues, and a lack of confidence in the current firm. Chris and Dan provide an in-depth analysis of each of these factors, offering valuable insights for partners who are contemplating a change.

During the conversation, Dan draws from his extensive experience to shed light on the complexities of these issues. He also shares advice for those interested in acquiring law firms and emphasizes the importance of thorough due diligence when selecting a recruiter. With his background as a legal recruiter and his past role as the president of the National Association of Legal Search Consultants, Dan brings a wealth of insights into the intricate dynamics of law firm partnerships.

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the driving forces that lead partners to explore new opportunities and suggests strategies for firms to address these concerns more effectively. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the motivations behind partner transitions and to learn how firms can create an environment that addresses these factors constructively.

Quotes:

• "The four reasons I think partners move come down to people, practice, economics, and lack of confidence." (02:34 | Dan)

• "90% of the problems that partners are facing boil down to people problems that are disguised as other things." (03:28 | Dan)

• "The bigger the firm, the more complex the leadership issues become." (07:40 | Dan)

• "Compromising on values to keep high-earning partners can create tension within the firm." (08:41 | Dan)

• "Partners need to be cautious about recruiters who may submit their information without permission to multiple firms." (37:50 | Dan)

Links:

Connect with Dan Binstock:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalrecruiter/

Company Website: https://g-s.com/dc-legal-recruiters/dan-binstock.php

Lateral Partners: https://lateralpartners.com

National Association of Legal Search Consultants: https://nalsc.org/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"For mergers to be successful, there really has to be a strategic reason on both sides that is well thought out by both parties, regardless of who makes the approach to whom," explains Gary Miles, President and CEO of Miles Partner Placement, an elite partner placement group movement and merger boutique. Today, Gary speaks with host Chris Batz about recent law firm merger activity, future trends for corporate law firms, and the ABA rule 5.2. 

Gary explains that in his opinion a successful merger is one which has a high level of retention over the time the partnership was brought on along with increased metrics from the combined entity over time. In order to achieve this success, there needs to be a very strategic reason for the merger on both sides that is fully thought out prior to even letting the public know. Recently mergers have been being made more public, hitting the media well before details are truly ironed out. This is surprising as in the past firms were much more careful about stopping the leak of information. As for the future, Gary believes that with the client market heading more toward globalization, that smaller entities will need to consider merging or allowing themselves to be acquired in order to achieve rapid growth. Consolidation happens in businesses every day and the same is beginning to be seen with law firms.

Law firm mergers tend to get a lot of attention and it can be useful to have the details completely ironed out before word hits the press. When judging whether a merger is successful or not, it is important to look at least 5 years down the road to really understand where the metrics sit for the combined entity. With a market push toward globalization, law firm mergers are likely to be more and more common in the coming years. 

Quotes

• "For mergers to be successful, there really has to be a strategic reason on both sides that is well thought out by both parties, regardless of who makes the approach to whom." (7:33 | Gary) 

• "I term a successful merger, from my perspective, I'm not using some sort of, you know, defined industry standard, but a high level of retention over time of the firm partnership that was brought on. Increased metrics from the combined entity over time." (11:59 | Gary)

• "There's consolidation happening every day, law firms depend upon it in terms of revenue." (19:15 | Gary)

• "A lot of times what gets in the way most often of deals is either the outright adversity or the quote, unquote major client business conflict that often exists." (37:20 | Gary)

•  "In our country's history, money usually wins out. Capital will find a way to win out." (38:51 | Gary)

Links

Connect with Gary Miles:

Miles Partner Placement:  https://milespartnerplacement.com/

Gary Miles' LinkedIn Profile: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Mid-sized law firms are facing pressure from every direction. Associates are poached with six-figure pay bumps, partners are stretched thin between billing and management, and specialty practices vanish without succession plans. At the same time, clients expect broader reach and deeper benches than many firms can deliver.

In this episode, host Chris Batz shares what he's hearing directly from managing partners and executive committee members across the country. He outlines the squeeze mid-sized firms are feeling - lagging organic growth, talent retention challenges, leadership burnout - and the difficult choices leaders are weighing: scale up, go lean, or join a larger platform.

Chris also looks at the emerging role of private equity in law firm ownership and the ripple effects it could have on culture, compensation, and competition. Along the way, he points out steps firms can take now: sharpen strategic vision, invest in leadership and succession, strengthen recruiting systems, and pursue growth through the right mergers or acquisitions.

At its heart, this episode asks a question every firm should confront: how do you stay competitive without exhausting the people who make your firm strong?

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Why Mid-Sized Law Firms Are Struggling

03:30 Why Talent Keeps Leaving Mid-Sized Firms

04:28 The Leadership Burnout Crisis in Law Firms

07:37 Scenario 1: Losing Lead Counsel Work to Bigger Firms

11:31 Scenario 2: Rainmakers With No Succession Plan

14:04 Billing vs. Leading — Can Firm Leaders Do Both?

18:19 Growth Choices: Lateral Hires, Acquisitions, or Mergers

24:01 Should Mid-Sized Firms Join Larger Platforms?

26:09 The Hidden Cost of Burnout in Firm Leadership

32:17 How Private Equity Is Changing Law Firms

34:18 Strategies for Mid-Sized Firms to Compete

43:48 Key Lessons for Law Firm Leaders

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"For too long DEI work has been focused on changing individual hearts and minds, versus the organization taking on responsibility and frankly, modifying behavior without the need for personal buy-in," explains Alexis Robertson, Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Foley & Lardner, as well as host of Foley's Path & Practice Podcast. There has been great improvement in DEI at law firms regarding recruitment, but there is still a long way to go when it comes to employee retention and promotion. Today, Alexis discusses where current law firm DEI efforts are working and where improvements can still be made. 

When people think about DEI, their first thought is often to diversify their recruiting pools. The issue with thinking about it this way is that it oversimplifies the problem. Diversity, equity and inclusion really need to be completely plugged into every people facing function within an organization. It cannot be just a one and done type of DEI training or a party for Black History Month. Those can help, but only when used as part of a larger systematic DEI implementation throughout the whole organization. If law firms want to enact real lasting change that creates a better, more inclusive work environment for all employees, they need to look beyond recruitment and into their overall systems and values. 

Although there has been a lot of positive change in the DEI space within law firms, there is still a long way to go when it comes to creating inclusive workplaces. Organizations who are truly committed to DEI have to look closer at retention and employee development. Recruiting diverse employees is not enough because if the actual workplace culture is not aligned with DEI values, those diverse employees will not stay with the company. 

Quotes

• "A lot of times with diversity, the first thing anyone thinks about is recruiting." (24:49-24:52 | Alexis)

• "What I'm doing is figuring out how our organization can be great for all people. And I think it's important to start framing things that way because it can feel more inclusive." (26:15-26:29 | Alexis)

• "What we really need to focus on as it relates to those historically underrepresented or even systematically excluded groups are the things that relate to retention." (27:00-27:09 | Alexis)

• "We've seen change. The problem is, if you extrapolate it out over another 50 years, we're not going fast enough for it to get to where we'd like it all to get to within our lifetimes." (28:56-29:06 | Alexis)

• "For too long DEI work has been focused on changing individual hearts and minds, versus the organization taking on responsibility and frankly, modifying behavior without the need for personal buy-in." (31:04-31:15 | Alexis)

Links

Connect with Alexis Robertson:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisrobertson/

Her Foley page:

https://www.foley.com/en/people/r/robertson-alexis

The Path & Practice Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-path-the-practice/id1523076918

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

With the fast pace that Generative AI models like Chat GPT have been expanding and improving, it has become quite clear that major disruptions are on the way for every single industry. And the legal industry is likely to be the first to face major disruptions due to these technological advances. Today, Mary O'Carroll,Chief Community Officer at Ironclad, lnc., and Craig Katerber, Chief Legal and Corporate Affairs Officer at Budweiser Brewing Company APAC, discuss generative AI and the impacts they expect it to have on the legal services industry. They also spend time talking about LegalOps, scaling teams, modernizing legal departments, and the benefits of LinkedIn.

The landscape of Generative AI already looks very different from how it looked six months ago, and even six weeks ago. It is a rapidly growing technology and is making its way into every industry. This is a very exciting opportunity, especially for creative people who are just beginning to play with the tools and seeing what could be possible. The legal industry is a relatively slow moving one with very outdated processes and an unchanging law school curriculum. Generative AI could bring much needed updates to these areas and propel legal professionals toward a better, more streamlined and efficient way of doing business. Although some people may be fearful of this new technology or worry that it will replace them, there are immeasurable benefits to keeping an open mind and embracing this new way of approaching business.

With Generative AI, the old way of doing things is no longer going to be acceptable. The legal services industry in particular is slow to change and many people are still working out of offices with old fashioned filing cabinets and outdated processes. This advanced technology is a great opportunity for people to re-evaluate their current systems and make much needed improvements. 

Quotes

• "One of the biggest catalysts for hiring a legal operations person now is digital transformation." (18:23-18:28 | Mary)

• "This is a much bigger moment than a lot of people realize. Generative AI and large language models are going to have a huge effect on every part of our economy in every part of our world." (26:16-26:26 | Mary)

• "It's so much about empathy or trying to put yourself in the person's shoes about what they actually want or care about, and there's a huge amount of value there. And we'll see as AI goes, but that's a very human skill." (33:15-33:29 | Craig)

• "AI and efficiency has always been at odds with the billable hour, but you can't avoid this now, you can't do business as usual." (35:34-35:42 | Mary)

• "If there was ever a distinction of black and white between legal advice and non legal advice, it's going to be a lot more gray in the future." (36:47-36:54 | Craig) 

Links

Connect with Mary O'Carroll:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshenocarroll/

Connect with Craig Katerberg:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-katerberg-70a6373/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"You have to be yourself, but you have to pay attention to the audience that you're working with," explains Stewart Hirsch, managing director and business development coach. The issue with talking broadly about concepts like executive presence is that everyone has a different definition for what executive presence entails. The initial ideas for executive presence applied primarily to white men, but today's professional environments are much more multicultural and diverse. Today, Stewart Hirsch and Deanna Sheridan, Vice President and legal advisor, discuss executive presence and inner confidence.  

Effective leaders exude executive presence and they do that by letting their inner confidence shine through by finding ways to be relatable to their target audience. They have to be open to being authentically themselves, yet tailor their approach to who they are interacting with. When people feel psychological safety at work, they are more likely to show up as their authentic selves. It's really difficult to feel confident when you are trying to hide portions of yourself from your colleagues. And when leaders lead by example and are authentic with their team members, then the rest of the team feels more comfortable being authentic as well. 

Inner confidence takes time to develop and it can still be scary to put your authentic self forward, even in a psychologically safe environment. When you can read the room and adjust your actions and words based on your audience, that can help to increase not only your confidence in yourself, but also your colleagues confidence in you as their leader.  

Quotes

• "Executive presence is just a label to define somebody's perspective on power and influence." (6:15-6:21 | Deanna) 

• "It was crucial for me to learn from somebody else how to approach these conversations when I needed to adapt to what my audience needed to hear, because I couldn't put myself in their shoes." (15:49-16:03 | Deanna)

• "You have to be yourself, but you have to pay attention to the audience that you're working with." (18:20-18:25 | Stewart)

• "The shift to get that confidence is helping the person recognize that they're absolutely capable, they've done it before." (40:40-40:50 | Stewart)

Links

Connect with Deanna Sheridan and Stewart Hirsch:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dgsheridan/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stewarthirsch/

https://strategicrelationships.com/

Executive Presence: The Missing Link Between Merit and Success By Sylvia Ann Hewlett

https://a.co/d/e773o0B

Talking from 9 to 5: Men and Women at Work by Deborah Tannen

https://a.co/d/hQJIY7c

Play like Man Win like a Woman: What Men Know About Success that Women Need to Learn by Gail Evans

https://a.co/d/2iP3Fjs

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It was something that I had always wanted to do, because I always felt this inclination to stand up for folks who didn't have a voice," explains Michelle Patterson Wimes, SVP Chief Equity and Inclusion Officer at Children's Mercy Kansas City. Michelle began her professional journey as a teacher and then as a lawyer, thinking that was the best route to being able to help people. Along the way, she gathered experiences that made her the perfect candidate for working in DEI. Today, Michelle discusses her journey to becoming a Chief DEI Officer. 

Michelle never let fear of trying something new stop her and has made several challenging career transitions throughout her journey. Her foreign language experience and proficiency in Spanish made her an excellent candidate for working with an international community. Then, as a lawyer, she found herself working in immigration law. Transitioning into DEI was a very natural progression with her experiences and goals, especially because a position for Diversity Director opened up at one of the firms she had previously practiced at. Wanting to be able to have a greater impact, she transitioned again, moving to another firm where she'd be able to create a professional development program in addition to the diversity and inclusion work. Then, the pandemic hit and another opportunity came around, this time with Children's Mercy in Kansas City. Attracted to the challenge and the opportunity to work in her local community, Michelle took a leap and began learning about equity and equality in healthcare. 

Transitioning careers can be scary and very difficult, but also extremely rewarding. If you are in a position that no longer aligns with your values or does not offer opportunities for growth, it is useful to start planning an exit strategy. As Michelle says, life is too short to not enjoy what you are doing.

Quotes

• "It was something that I had always wanted to do because I always felt this inclination to stand up for folks who didn't have a voice." (7:56-8:05 | Michelle)

• "If it's not meaningful, if it doesn't align with my values, and I'm just exhausted where I don't even have time or energy to do anything else, then to me, it's time to start planning your exit strategy." (29:40-29:52 | Michelle)

• "What they don't understand is that diversity should be interwoven into everything that you do." (36:36-36:41 | Michelle) 

• "What happens a lot of times is that the existing leaders that are there feel like their territory is being encroached upon." (36:57-37:06 | Michelle)

• "What we're seeing in healthcare is a lot of accrediting bodies putting standards around health equity that before now did not exist." (46:43-46:53 | Michelle)

Links

Connect with Michelle Patterson Wimes:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellepattersonwimes/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace," explains Dennis Garcia, Assistant General Counsel of Microsoft. Today, Dennis and Kim Yapchai, former SVP, Chief Environmental, Social, and Governance Officer at Tenneco Inc., discuss their career advice for developing in-house talent.

Trust is something that needs to be earned over time, and creating a psychologically safe work environment is no different. With job turnover particularly high, it is especially important to find innovative ways to retain and nurture top talent within your organization. To develop your in-house talent, as a leader, it is important to be up front and open with your employees. This authenticity will help develop trust between leaders and teammates alike. Mentor the talent you have and give people opportunities to grow their skills. When employees feel understood, appreciated, and supported, they are less likely to look for outside career advancement. 

Nowadays, employees, particularly those of the Gen Z and Millennial generations, are more likely to be attracted to jobs where they feel aligned with the company's values. By being authentic and up front from the very start, leaders can foster relationships with those employees who are the right fit for the work culture they are looking to create. Instead of trying to fight over the top talent in the pool, look in-house and put time into helping your current employees flourish. 

Quotes

• "If people don't feel safe enough to speak up and be heard, the company loses out. You lose out on new ideas, on diversity of thought, and people letting you know when things are going wrong." (9:25-9:43 Kim) 

• "It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace." (10:47-10:57 | Dennis)

• "It is harder when you don't see people face to face in the office, you have to find other ways to connect." (16:02-16:08 | Kim)

• "Build the network and your brand before you need it." (25:39-25:42 | Kim)

• "When you reach out to people and you try to build those relationships, it's not all about how they can help you. It's how can you help them." (29:10-29:18 | Kim) 

Links

Connect with Kim Yapchai:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-yapchai/

Connect with Dennis Garcia:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denniscgarcia/

Buy a copy of Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson:
https://a.co/d/fP9z92s

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Anyone that knows me throughout my career would see that it's really been about trying to push the boundaries. And in our part of the market, I think we really are driving and pushing the boundaries of what is possible and what clients want," explains Matt Saur, strategic and institutional advisor, co-founder and partner of Woolery & Co. Today, Matt shares his career journey, the challenges he faced while opening Woolery & Co., and his desires to push boundaries and change the dynamics of client service. 

The importance of connecting with other people has always been emphasized in Matt's life. This belief has followed him into his professional life and even inspired his company's values. When he teamed up with Jim, a constructive activist, they both agreed heavily on the value of the human side of business, choosing to keep the firm smaller in order to better serve their clients. Their company's main purpose is on building deep relationships with every client and their business matters, even partnering up with the client's pre-existing stakeholders, advisors, and larger firms as needed. They help see clients through challenging situations such as dealing with shareholder activists, mergers and acquisitions, and crisis management without the conflicts typically seen at larger firms. 

Serving family backed companies and family offices requires a different approach from dealing with larger companies and corporations. These smaller companies face unique challenges that are best met by an advisor who is really able to take the time to do a deep dive into their business matters, their needs, and their goals. Instead of shying away from this challenge, Matt chose to push boundaries and change the way things are done in the industry in the interest of bettering opportunities for everyone involved from the clients themselves to their stakeholders. 

Quotes

• "The one thing that I've always tried to do is really go out on a limb and do things that are a little uncomfortable." (10:39-10:51 | Matt)

• "Anyone that knows me throughout my career would see that it's really been about trying to push the boundaries. And, I look at what we're doing in the legal world, and obviously, we have a small impact. We're not a mega firm or anything like that. But in our part of the market, I think we really are driving and pushing the boundaries of what is possible and what clients want." (11:02-11:31 | Matt)

• "We value the human side of it, and you have to, I think, when you have a model like ours." (13:19-13:24 | Matt)

• "A lot of what the industry has gone towards is being reactive, and what we're really talking about is shifting that to be proactive." (39:32-39:42 | Matt)

• "You have to connect with people in life if you want to do anything and if you want to enjoy life." (41:24-41:29 | Matt) 

• "You have to develop that skill where the client trusts you when you're a second year associate out of law school. And they'll trust for part of the reason that they know the brand, and they know the firm, but at some point, it's gotta be you." (42:18-42:35 | Matt)

Links

Connect with Matt Saur:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathew-saur-01303919b/

Woolery & Co: https://wooleryco.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Hedge funds, if you do it right and you set up a really good compliance and operational structure, it's a scalable business," explains Susanne Meline, co-founder of Francis Capital Management. Prior to going into hedge fund management and serving on several boards, she worked as an investment banker and as a lawyer. Today, Susanne shares how she first became involved with hedge funds, how a serendipitous meeting at a coffee shop landed her a seat on her first board, and board advice for those seeking their first seat.

Susanne took a huge risk going from a salaried employee to taking an ownership interest in a hedge fund. To her, it was a relatively easy decision to make after observing many other funds from the outside for years and knowing that they can be profitable right from the start. She focused on making sure the hedge fund was set up properly with good compliance and a strong operational structure so that it would be a scalable business. Her inside knowledge of finances, operations, and law from her prior work experience made her a perfect fit for this type of business venture. About 6 years ago, Susanne landed a position on her first board, a venture capital fund by women funding women-founded or led businesses. It was an incredibly challenging board going through a time of transition, but Susanne welcomed the opportunity. 

Being willing to take risks really paid off for Susanne. You may think it is better to wait until the perfect board opportunity comes up, but you might be waiting forever. By being willing to challenge yourself, you can get more experience and learn from these more difficult positions, which will make you a more valuable board member going forward. 

Quotes

• "Hedge funds, if you do it right and you set up a really good compliance and operational structure, it's a scalable business." (18:41-18:48 | Susanne)

• "We have the same investment philosophy that we've had all the time, which is value with a catalyst." (20:07-20:11 | Susanne)

• "Capital providers are a really important part of a company's success. But at the end of the day, the companies are the ones making the decisions." (22:49-22:55 | Susanne)

• "Those traditional board searches, they really look for people that have operations experience." (26:32-26:37 | Susanne)

• "In terms of figuring out how you're going to get in that board seat, it's like, 'Do you know the capital providers, the VC people, or do you know the founder?'." (28:44-28:51 | Susanne)

• "Being willing to go on a board where it's challenging is a really great way to get the opportunity." (29:54-29:59 | Susanne)

• "Just because you're small doesn't mean you can't be excellent." (35:49-35:51 | Susanne)

• "Look at the opportunity, not at the compensation. To me the compensation is the last piece." (37:32-37:36 | Susanne) 

Links

Connect with Susanne Meline:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanne-meline-712392134/ 

Francis Capital http://franciscapital.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"I always try to make sure I'm contextualizing what I do on a day-to-day basis. And my personal priority is my family all the time," shares Bill Ryan, SVP. Bill is the Assistant GC of AT&T Services, Inc., but has held many roles from working as a bilingual educator to becoming an attorney and working in-house at DirectTV. Today, he shares his professional journey and how he has built a sustainable career through contextualizing work and family.

The divide between work and personal life can cause your job to become unsustainable. If your priority is your family, but your job keeps you away from them all the time, then eventually you will resent it. In order to be an authentic leader, it is important to show up to work in a way that honors your values. Bill comes from a multicultural family, with his wife being from Mexico and his children being adopted from Korea. So for him, diversity is inextricably linked to his family and is one of his largest priorities. By incorporating his values, being mindful of his obligations as a leader, and recognizing the privileges he has been afforded in life, Bill has made strides in his own professional development and in that of his team members. 

It's easy to get so caught up in the day-to-day that you forget to prioritize your values. If you don't prioritize showing up and leading from a place of authenticity, you will be a less effective leader. By contextualizing your work in regard to your values, you will create a more sustainable work environment for everyone. 

Quotes

• "Success all of a sudden pivoted and is now defined as the success of everyone else around you." (9:23-9:29 | Bill)

• "It's really great to be able to connect people and at least make an effort to connect in the native of language and build relationships on a different level and help understand the culture and things of that nature." (17:14-17:23 | Bill)

• "I always try to make sure I'm contextualizing what I do on a day-to-day basis. And my personal priority is my family all the time." (25:43-25:51 | Bill)

• "My commitment to diversity is nothing more than my commitment to my family." (37:22-37:26 | Bill) 

• "What I try to bring is being mindful of the obligations that I have as a leader and as an ally and someone who's benefited from a lot of privileges, and not everyone has." (39:57-40:05 | Bill)

Links

Connect with Bill Ryan:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-ryan-685b521/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"Not enjoying the day-to-day was what prompted me to think about what I was doing. I then really started to try to focus on what I did enjoy," explains Amy Harris, EVP. Amy is the Chief Legal Officer at UMB Financial, the largest bank in Kansas City. Today, she shares her journey from starting college as a musical theater major to going into political science and becoming a lawyer, and ultimately to going in-house. 

When Amy realized she wasn't enjoying the day-to-day of her chosen musical theater major in college, she knew it was time to re-evaluate and reconnect with the things that brought her joy back in high school. She gave herself the permission to be creative with her emotional intelligence and follow her strengths. This led her into studying political science and onto the path of becoming a lawyer. After working for a few years at a private law firm, Amy was absolutely in love with the work, but was struggling to maintain healthy boundaries. She knew there had to be a better, healthier way to continue doing the litigation she loved. By choosing to go in-house, Amy was able to really get in touch with her strengths and capitalize on her skill-set in a way that energized her without risking burnout. 

If you're spending everyday doing something you don't love, it will deplete your energy. It is okay to step back from whatever label has been imposed onto you, re-evaluate your strengths and interests, and even to switch careers. You are not just your job title, and by looking at yourself as your skills rather than that arbitrary title, you will have more freedom to pursue a role you are passionate about. 

Quotes

• "Not enjoying the day-to-day was what prompted me to think about what I was doing. I really started to just try to focus on what I did enjoy." (7:11-7:18 | Amy)

• "One of the things that an in-house litigator really, really brings to the table is an ability to translate legal ideas, issues, to a layman audience, which is going to be corporate executives." (13:11-13:25 | Amy)

• "Stop putting yourself in that box. I'm a lawyer. I'm a litigator. I'm a transactional attorney. I'm a contract attorney. Yes, you are that. But what are the skills that you use everyday that make you good at that?" (23:19-23:33 | Amy)

• "Really start to think about yourself as a set of skills. Because until I did that, I think I had a really hard time seeing myself as anything other than the label I had given myself." (23:45-23:55 | Amy)

• "When you start to line up what's giving you energy, you can also then inherently start to identify where your strengths are." (26:34-26:43 | Amy) 

Links

Connect with Amy Harris:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-moore-harris-b9b3b725/

Emotional Intelligence 2.0:  https://a.co/d/eWrZbFR

Mentoring is a Must UMB Article: https://blog.umb.com/umb-financial-meet-the-leadership-umb-amy-harris-legal/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"The law firms usually take their cues from their clients. If there's layoffs at the big banks and financial institutions, there's going to be a slowdown in the corporate work as well," explains Sharon Mahn,CEO and Founder of Mahn Partners. Today, Sharon and Gary Miles, president and CEO at Miles Partner Placement, combine their experience to discuss the current legal market, predictions for the future, and the impact on legal recruiting and law partner compensation.

The market is cyclical and currently in a downturn. But that does not necessarily mean that law firms will no longer be recruiting. Top talent that brings in high revenue will always be desirable regardless of the state of the market. Firms will likely be more discerning about hiring during a downturn and may not offer as high of a compensation rate. It is important for law firms to be very transparent with recruiters and clients alike about how the market conditions may impact their practice.

During a recession it is important to be very smart about hiring. Larger law firms can handle more of a loss than smaller firms, but they will still likely offer a lower law partner compensation while the market is down. Whenever there are many layoffs at banks and financial institutions, that causes a slowdown in corporate work and the law firms tend to restructure around that.

Quotes

• "Law firms usually take their cues from their clients. If there's layoffs at the big banks and financial institutions, there's gonna be a slowdown in the corporate work as well." (4:49-4:57 | Sharon)

• "You don't want to lay off too many people in your firm and then have to rehire them when the market is on the upswing again." (7:49-7:54 | Sharon)

• "Be transparent in the process and understand how market conditions might impact your practice." (10:25-10:36 | Gary) 

• "You just have to learn to see around corners as best you can." (16:52-16:55 | Gary)

• "The law firms are now more specifically focused on partners and their business regardless of credentials, regardless of anything else." (23:17-23:24 | Sharon)

Links

Connect with Sharon Mahn:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmahn/

Connect with Gary Miles:

Miles Partner Placement https://milespartnerplacement.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-miles-aa7b28103/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Jami Wintz McKeon, Chair of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, joins Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg to share her journey from associate to leading one of the world's largest law firms. She reflects on the moments that shaped her path, including overseeing major integrations, heading the litigation practice, and ultimately stepping into the role of chair.

Jami talks about the personal side of leadership, carrying both the joys and hardships of colleagues, staying connected across a global partnership, and fostering a culture where collaboration comes before credit. She also discusses Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP's approach to expansion, the role of client needs in shaping growth, and how the firm has embraced AI as an opportunity to strengthen client service.

Jami's advice for fellow and future law firm leaders is straightforward: you have to love the firm, the people, and the responsibility itself. She shares how gratitude and family keep her grounded and why focusing on what's working is as critical as addressing what isn't. At its core, this episode is a look at what it means to lead with both strategy and heart in an industry defined by constant change.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00  Jami Wintz McKeon's Path to Becoming a Law Firm Leader

02:54  Defining Career Turning Points at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP

05:36  Leading with Connection and Caring for Firm Members

08:28  Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP Global Growth Strategy

13:40  Artificial Intelligence in Law Firms and Client Service

16:35  Advice for Current and Aspiring Law Firm Leaders

20:20  Staying Grounded Through Gratitude and Family

25:40  Inspiration and Leadership Philosophy

29:38  Looking Ahead: The Future of Law Firm Leadership

Links

Connect with Jami Wintz McKeon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jami-wintz-mckeon-1b993746/

Web bio: https://www.morganlewis.com/bios/jmckeon

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/ 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

"If you're going to take a leap, you better at least like the people you're working with," explains Fred Stein, Chief Legal Officer of Chicken Soup for the Soul. Today, Fred explores his extensive career journey, from law school to his private practice experience to his passion for writing. By reflecting on his experiences, Fred reveals how his time at Redbox was a rocket ship of growth, leading to being acquired by Chicken Soup for the Soul and an evolving career.

When Fred learned about Redbox, he boldly wrote a letter to the CEO, wanting to be their general counsel. During the lengthy hiring process, Fred put together a presentation with characters and movie themes, which proved successful. Excited to step into a new industry, Fred put himself out there and gained more perspective. When Chicken Soup for the Soul acquired Redbox, Fred felt excited by this opportunity and learned a new side of home entertainment. Outside of work, Fred is writing multiple books, including a book on general counseling, proving that he is always willing to expand his abilities and grow as an individual.

Throughout your life, incredible opportunities can pop up on your path. By taking on positions outside your comfort zone, you can expand your skill set and grow both personally and professionally. You may not always know how to achieve your target, but if you're willing to stretch your goals, you'll be surprised by the exciting places you'll end up.

Quotes

• "Our value isn't in our lawyering per se, but weaving in the business ideas, softer skill set, and other things to help." (14:22-14:33 | Fred)
• "If you're going to take a leap, you better at least like the people you're working with." (26:51-26:55 | Fred)
• "Let no good crisis go untapped by you in terms of being able to show your value." (32:19-32:26 | Fred)
• "There's help to be had, but you're not going to get it unless you take the trouble to form these relationships and invest in them." (36:52-37:00 | Fred) 
• "It's not a goal unless you tell people, so they can hold you accountable." (51:53-51:58 | Fred)

Links

Connect with Fred Stein:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederick-stein/

Website: https://www.chickensoup.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Join Chris Batz on his second episode of The Future is Bright Podcast as he welcomes guest speaker Lloyd Johnson to learn more about how he has taken the hardships in life and turned them into motivation to be a legal industry leader, influencer, and advocate for women and attorneys of color.

Chris Batz spends this week's episode talking to Lloyd Johnson, born and raised in Santa Rosa, CA, an all-American track and field athlete turned legal industry convener and influencer. Johnson speaks about his life being raised within a black-owned janitorial business and how the events he saw and the people he surrounded himself with motivated him to turn to the legal profession. His legal career started as Deputy District Attorney in San Francisco and in-house counsel for IBM and Hewlett-Packard. He was then founder and Executive Director for the Minority Corporate Counsel Association and Women In-House Counsel Leadership Association. He conducted numerous in-house counsel leadership development workshops and events. He also was the publisher of the Inside Counsel Magazine and created the Diversity and Bar Magazine. From there, Johnson founded Chief Legal Executive, where he continues his legacy of programs and career development initiatives for women and attorneys of color. Lloyd created the first DE&I best practices research for corporate legal departments back in 1999/2000. This September he is releasing an updated and new report bringing visibility and insights to the execution of DE&I within corporate legal departments.

Quote:
"The morale of the story is your most complex problems are going to be solved by your relationships with people not because you are smart."

Click on the following links to subscribe to The Future is Bright Podcast and to watch or listen to the entire episode:

ChrisBatz.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQOXp7nOM9oj-BDHxwn2OAQ/featured

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-is-bright-podcast/id1645884673

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5ljmN2aMnlMGeJ90HYD5jg

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9iNTNkNGUyOC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw

Join Chris Batz for the inaugural first episode of The Future is Bright Podcast as he brings on guest Dara Redler to learn about her legal career success at iconic brands and her passion for
transformation, authentic leadership, and giving back.

Chris Batz speaks to Dara Redler, born and raised in Pennsylvania and now resides in Atlanta, where she works remotely. She is the Chief Legal Officer at H&R Block, but before she got there, she had many other jobs that led her to this position. Redler reminisces that her love for learning and being challenged has helped open doors in her legal career. Her start began in Biglaw at Alston & Bird in Atlanta but quickly transitioned in-house to Coca-Cola for 17 years, where she held many leadership positions in its legal division. From there, Redler landed the chief legal role for Tilray, Inc., a leading global cannabis business. As she is now in H&R Block, Redler is excited to share her stories, successes, and contributions to these iconic corporate brands and the communities around her.

Quote:

"The morale of the story is your most complex problems are going to be solved by your relationships with people not because you are smart."

To Subscribe to The Future is Bright Podcast and watch or listen to the entire episode, click on the following links:

ChrisBatz.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQOXp7nOM9oj-BDHxwn2OAQ/featured

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-future-is-bright-podcast/id1645884673

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5ljmN2aMnlMGeJ90HYD5jg

Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9iNTNkNGUyOC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw

"Put yourself out there before an opportunity arises," explains Sahang-Hee Hahn, Head of Strategy & Planning at Haven Life Insurance Agency. Before her current position, Sahang-Hee started her career in singing and acting, big law, and got her MBA at Wharton. Reflecting on her varied experiences, she discusses taking risks and being playful with her career.

When you push away your fear of risk, you will be surprised by the exciting opportunities that can arise. Without encouragement from a colleague, Sahang-Hee would not have gone to business school, where she learned so much. Without the support of her network, she would never have been able to take professional risks and grow. By being open-minded while accepting help from the incredible leaders she met along the way, Sahang-Hee found fulfillment in her career and kept it interesting.

Don't be afraid to get creative with your career. Learn more about Sahang-Hee's professional journey, the benefits of business school, and how rejection makes you stronger. 

Quotes

• "Put yourself out there before an opportunity arises." (12:33-12:37 | Sahang-Hee)
• "It's one thing to get a credential and then get an opportunity because you have a degree on your resume. It's quite another to go into that role and say, Oh, I'm not speaking a foreign language because I understand what's being said in the room." (15:13-15:24 | Sahang-Hee)
• "I'm willing to take on some risk every few years or so and do something completely out of the left field, but it's definitely made my career more exciting." (24:36-24:46 | Sahang-Hee) 
• "I have learned to take rejection well. And hearing "no" early on in your career actually strengthens you to keep pressing." (28:02-28:10 | Sahang-Hee)
• "I wouldn't be here without the network that surrounded me and supported my growth." (28:34-28:38 | Sahang-Hee)

Links

Connect with Sahang-Hee Hahn:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahanghee

Website: https://havenlife.com/

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc 

Instagram: @theliongroupllc

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm