The Ecology of Ideas Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

We often think of ecology as something related to planetary nature. What if it’s about the entire universe?

In this episode, we talk with Thomas Nail, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Denver, who introduces us to the idea of cosmic ecology. At the center is the notion of entropy as the natural tendency of energy to dissipate across the cosmos.

Thomas challenges the common view that entropy is something to fight against. Instead, he suggests that we’re already part of this process and that we forgot how to move with it. This episode opens up a new way of thinking about ecology that connects us not just to the planet, but to the flow of the universe itself.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Nail T. (2021) Theory of the Earth. Stanford University Press.

References:

• Nail T. (2018) Being and Motion. Oxford University Press.
• Smil V. (2017) Energy: A Beginner's Guide. Oneworld Publication.

recorded 5th December 2023

Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Recording by Jakob Ranum

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School

What is the difference between thinking ecologically and thinking about ecology? In this episode, we speak with Nora Bateson, systems thinker, ecological philosopher, writer, and filmmaker, whose work has been highly influential for this podcast.

Nora carries forward a remarkable intellectual legacy. Her father, Gregory Bateson, was a pioneering anthropologist and ecological thinker, and her grandfather, William Bateson, coined the term genetics. The phrase ecology of ideas, which gives this podcast its name, comes directly from her father's work.

Nora invites us to see the world not as isolated issues, but as interconnected patterns within living systems. Through this lens, we begin to understand that ecological awareness is not just about the environment but about how we relate with those interconnected patterns.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Bateson N. (2023) Combining. Triarchy Press.

References:

• Bateson N. (2016) Small Arcs of Larger Circles: Framing Through Other Patterns. Triarchy Press.
• Bateson G. (1972/2000) Steps to and Ecology of Mind: Collected Essays in Anthropology, Psychiatry, Evolution, and Epistemology. The University of Chicago Press.

recorded 11th December 2023

Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Recording by Jakob Ranum

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School

If you had to choose between being rich or being well, chances are you'd choose your own well-being. And yet, we live in a world shaped by an economic system that prioritizes wealth over wellness.

In this episode, we’re joined by Inge Røpke, professor of ecological economics at Aalborg University in Denmark. Inge invites us to reflect on the limits of conventional economic thinking, and how it shapes the way we understand value and progress. She makes the case for placing justice and ecological awareness at the heart of a more thoughtful and inclusive approach to economics that encourages us to look beyond numbers and toward the kind of society we actually want to live in.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Martínez-Alier J. and Røpke I. (eds.) (2008) Recent Developments in Ecological Economics. Edward Elgar Publishing.

References:

• Martínez-Alier J. (1990) Ecological Economics: Energy, Environment and Society. Basil Blackwell Publishing.
• Ehrlich P.R. (1968) The Population Bomb. Ballantine Books.
• Meadows D., Randers J., and Meadows D. (2004) Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update. Chelsea Green House Publishing.
• Georgescu-Roegen N. (1971) The Entropy Law and the Economic Process. Harvard University Press.
• World Commission on Environment and Development (1987) Our Common Future (aka the Brundtland Report). United Nations. (open access)
• Raworth K. (2017) Doughnut Economics. Penguin Books.

recorded 27th June 2022

Recording, Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School

None of us would say we want war, poverty, or environmental collapse. And yet, these crises continue to unfold around us. Why is it so hard to collaborate and prevent the very things we all oppose?

In this episode, we’re joined by Maja Göpel, German political economist and transformation researcher, to explore this question. According to Maja, the problem lies in the deep structures of our institutions, which are still shaped by a logic of extraction and a culture of incrementalism. These frameworks limit our ability to respond meaningfully to systemic challenges like climate change.

Maja invites us to imagine new ways of organizing society that break free from small, cautious steps and instead embrace bold, collective transformation rooted in an ecological mindset.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Göpel M. (2023) Rethinking Our World: An Invitation to Rescue Our Future. Scribe Publications.

References:

• Polanyi K. (1944/2024) The Great Transformation: The Political and Economic Origins of Our Time. Penguin Books.
• Meadows D., Randers J., and Meadows D. (2004) Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update. Chelsea Green House Publishing.
• Botkin J.W., Elmandjra M., and Malitz M. (1979) No Limits to Learning. Club of Rome.
• Meadows D. (2008) Thinking in Systems: A Primer. Chelsea Green House Publishing. (open access)
• Hickel J. (2020) Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World. Penguin Books.
• Schelling T.C. (1978) Micromotives and Macrobehavior. W.W. Norton & Co.
• Kasser T. (2002) The High Price of Materialism. MIT Press. (open access)

recorded 8th December 2023

Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Recording by Jakob Ranum

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School

Facing the ecological crisis can feel overwhelming, often leading to despair or the belief that individual action is pointless. In this episode, we speak with Alexis Shotwell, professor of sociology and anthropology at Carleton University in Canada, who challenges this mindset.

Alexis introduces the concept of purity politics - the idea that only those who meet certain moral or ideological standards are allowed to participate in collective action. This belief, she argues, can stifle our political impulses and prevent meaningful collaboration.

Together, we explore how to move beyond purity politics, reconnect with collective action, and find hope in the face of ecological challenges.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Shotwell A. (2016) Against Purity: Living Ethically in Compromised Times. University of Minnesota Press.

References:

• Shotwell A. (2011) Knowing Otherwise: Race, Gender, and Implicit Understanding. Penn State University Press.
• Moore H. and Kahn J. (2011) Organizing Cools the Planet: Tools and Reflections to Navigate the Climate Crisis. PM Press.

recorded 6th December 2023

Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Recording by Jakob Ranum

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School

In a world that celebrates innovation, productivity, and constant growth, good-enough can sound like a failure. But what if it’s actually a strength?

In this episode, we talk with Paula Bialski, Professor of Sociology at the University of St. Gallen, about the overlooked value of good-enoughness — especially in the context of software and digital work. She invites us to rethink our obsession with optimization and excellence, and to consider what it means to be satisfied with enough.

This shift in mindset is an ecological shift. Our drive to always do more and be better is part of what fuels environmental and social exhaustion. Learning to value sufficiency, and to recognize when something is already good enough, is a crucial step toward more sustainable ways of living and working.

----------------------

Reading recommendation: Bialski P. (2024) Middle Tech: Software Work and the Culture of Good Enough. Princeton University Press.

References:

• Hacker Cultures Podcast
• Vinsel L. and Russel A.L. (2020) The Innovation Delusion. Penguin Books.
• Winnicott D.W. (1971/2005) Playing and Reality. Routledge Publishing.
• Amrute S. (2016) Encoding Race, Encoding Class. Duke University Press.
• Alpert A. (2022) The Good-Enough Life. Princeton University Press.

recorded 8th November 2024

Editing and Post-Production by Emil Munk

Hosted by Attila Márton

Original Music by Ariel Bialksi

Recording by Jakob Ranum

Produced by Attila Márton and Emil Munk

This episode was financially supported by the Copenhagen Business School