Are you a mental health professional with a feeling in the pit of your stomach that the system is BROKEN?
Did you start your training full of ideas about changing the landscape of mental health for the better but now you find you are so busy seeing people in crisis that you don't have time to do any of it?
Do you KNOW that we need to get out of our therapy rooms and start reaching people in other ways? Do you KNOW that the key to better mental health is prevention not crisis management?
If you do then join me for a mix practical skills, strategies and inspirational interviews with psychologists and therapists just like you who are using their skills to do BIG things way beyond the therapy room.
Prepare to get your "trainee spirit" back.
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Summer School Lesson 6: Third parties and insurance companies
Season 8 · Episode 6
Monday, August 26, 2024 • Duration 10:40
Summer School Lesson 6: Third parties and insurance companies
Hello and welcome to the Business of Psychology Summer School edition.
Over the six weeks of the English school holidays, we are doing things a little bit differently around here. If you're looking to start up an independent practice in September, then this is the place to be as each week I'm dropping in with a quick lesson and tasks that can be completed in 30 minutes or less from your sun lounger.
By the end of the six weeks, you will feel ready to step into your practice in September, confident that you can find clients and have a safe and viable business foundation.
Each week, the lessons will go out on this podcast feed, but if you want the weekly tasks, workbooks, private community, and a live session with me at the end of the summer to hold you accountable and make sure nothing stands in your way, you will need to sign up here: PBS Summer School
Welcome to Lesson 6 of Summer School, our final lesson! Today I'm going to be talking to you about third parties and insurance companies, because often when we start out in private practice, it can be helpful to supplement our own referrals with some from third parties, the most common being associate work for a larger, well established practice, referrals directly from insurance companies, or referrals from case managers representing medico legal firms.
Associate work
Associate work can be great to help you get your confidence and practice processes up and running at the beginning of your practice. In fact, many people choose to stay working as an associate rather than creating their own referrals.
The upside is you get the benefit of steady referrals and the best associate practices offer training and supervision opportunities or other benefits like free room rental when you see their clients. They also tend to handle the admin for you, so it can be very welcome in the scary early days.
The downside of associate work is less money, but less costs as well, so that might actually be fine. Just check that you don't go below your minimum fee that we worked out a couple of lessons ago, and also possible limitations on your own business growth. You need to check an associate contract very carefully for non compete clauses. These are clauses that state that you can't poach clients from the associate practice, which is very much fair enough. But, some of them do have some quite drastic terms in them. The chunkiest I've ever read was, 'You can never work with any mental health client within a 50 mile radius of the associate practice for one year after you finish with your last patient with us’. And I won't get into the pros and cons of that type of clause here, but just be aware, and if you see one that you think might limit your potential business growth in the future, then walk away from it.
Finally, make sure that the associate practice aligns with your values. It can be really uncomfortable working for an organisation that has very different values to you. You went into independent practice to avoid those kinds of culture clashes, so don't put up with it, you don't have to. Only work with practices that you feel excited to work for and proud to work for.
Insurance companies
Now, you probably know if you've been in the professional Facebook groups, that insurance companies often don't pay the best rates. When I have a lot of referrals coming in, I do tend to decline insurance referrals because of that. However, when I was starting out, they were a very important referral stream, and they do continue to be useful when referrals are a bit slow. You just have to make sure that they don't take you below that minimum fee.
You can register for insurance companies like AXA, Vitality and Bupa directly, or you can register with lots in one go through the Private Practice Register, or the Health Code System as it's now called.
It's unpredictable, to be honest, whether these will bring you referrals or not. I have students in Start and Grow who consistently get referrals from the main insurance companies, and I also have students who don't get any. For me, it has been really postcode dependent. Where I am now, I am getting referrals directly from some of the insurance companies, but I definitely didn't in the two previous parts of the country that I lived in. It's nothing to do with me, it is everything to do with what they need in the particular location that you're in. However, I do think it's always worth registering because you might get ideal clients coming to you who want to use their insurance to pay you. I find this is happening more and more, and when we look at the economic trends, more and more people are taking out private medical insurance and they expect to be able to use it. So I think that this is going to become a bigger part of our work over time. Some people might say regrettably, but it is a trend that I'm seeing, so I would get registered. But make sure when you register, you're aware of the cap that they have on their fees, read their terms and conditions, save those terms and conditions on your desktop, or put them somewhere safe where you can check them. And make sure that cap is not below your minimum fee. Also make sure that you set your fee at the very top of what they will pay, because the chances of them ever upping what they pay you are very low. They do not increase their cap every year. They haven't done so for a very long time in a lot of cases, so it is worth getting the most you can possibly get from the beginning.
So my top tips for taking on insurance clients are:
make sure you have your provider number, their patient number, and their pre authorization code, and the payment conditions and terms of the insurance provider saved into your practice management system and at your fingertips before you start therapy.
You need to know and make sure the client knows what the policy is around missed appointments. For some insurance providers, they will not pay for a DNA but they expect the patient to pay for that themselves. If they don't know that before they miss their first appointment with you, they might well refuse to pay it or be very upset and that's just a horrible conversation. So make sure that everybody knows and you've adapted your terms and conditions to reflect those terms from that particular insurance provider.
You also really need to know when you can invoice and when you should expect to be paid because that is slightly different for all of the insurance providers too and you don't want to miss out on the money that you're owed simply because you've got that wrong.
Rehab work or medico legal case managers
When you take on cases from rehab companies, you're effectively working as an associate for them, so the same advice that I've already given for associate work applies. As an additional note of caution, however, and this is based on my own experiences, please do check the reputation of the company that you're dealing with before you accept referrals. I have seen psychologists and therapists treated really badly by these companies because they're quite prone to going under without paying their providers. They also often have completely unreasonable payment terms. You can't wait 90 days after submitting your invoice, or even worse, 90 days after the end of a whole course of therapy, to get paid. Not if you're in the early days of your practice, and not, to be honest, for most small businesses out there. It actually nearly put me out of business in my first year. So, where possible, check with peers if they've had good experiences of getting paid and working with these companies and triple check their payment terms are acceptable to you before proceeding. Some of them will negotiate with you. I did successfully negotiate down from 90 days to 30. It can be done, but just make sure that you do. And if they're not open to negotiating, walk away because it will be more trouble than it's worth.
Week six task
Your final task of the summer school:
Firstly, decide if you want to register with insurance companies, and if you do, then make sure that you save all their documentation somewhere and have it all clearly labelled and easy to access.
Then if you think associate work would be useful to you, do a Google search for practices local to you and make contact with three to five that you think align with your values to see if they have any associate work available and to set up a coffee or chat with the founder so you can check if their values fit and they run things in a way which works for you.
Okay, that's your 30 minutes for the final time. Go!
Summer School Lesson 5: Directory sites
Season 8 · Episode 5
Monday, August 19, 2024 • Duration 12:02
Summer School Lesson 5: Directory sites
Hello and welcome to the Business of Psychology Summer School edition.
Over the six weeks of the English school holidays, we are doing things a little bit differently around here. If you're looking to start up an independent practice in September, then this is the place to be as each week I'm dropping in with a quick lesson and tasks that can be completed in 30 minutes or less from your sun lounger.
By the end of the six weeks, you will feel ready to step into your practice in September, confident that you can find clients and have a safe and viable business foundation.
Each week, the lessons will go out on this podcast feed, but if you want the weekly tasks, workbooks, private community, and a live session with me at the end of the summer to hold you accountable and make sure nothing stands in your way, you will need to sign up here: PBS Summer School
For lesson five of our summer school, we are thinking about directory sites. It's a good idea to be on a directory site or two if you're in independent practice. They can be a good source of referrals, but on top of that, they give you a home on the internet that you can direct people to before you get your own website up and running. They show up in search engines and they can give you a real boost of credibility.
Write as though you're speaking to a potential client SpecialiseA few lines about your approachDon't list every piece of trainingHave an easy booking systemTell them exactly what will happen nextMake your fees really clearUse a professional headshot
Educational Psychology and Disability with Dr Kirstie Rees
Season 7 · Episode 144
Friday, May 3, 2024 • Duration 44:12
Educational Psychology and Disability with Dr Kirstie Rees
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast. In this series, we're exploring the different ways that psychologists and therapists can work in independent practice. I've been talking to a lot of authors recently, and it's always a real pleasure to do so because the passion and commitment that it takes to author a book is infectious, so I've been really looking forward to our interview with Dr Kirstie Rees today. Dr Kirstie Rees is a child and educational psychologist, specialised in the areas of disability, neurodiversity and mental health and wellbeing. She is also the author of a new book, The Mental Health and Wellbeing of Children and Young People with Learning Difficulties.
Kirstie tells us how she got started in educational psychology 00:51
We discuss the language used around disability 12:05
Kirstie talks about her move into independent work 16:13
Kirstie tells us about what sparked the idea for her book 22:03
Occupational and coaching psychology in independent practice with Christine Hamilton
Season 1 · Episode 57
Friday, April 23, 2021 • Duration 47:51
Occupational and coaching psychology in independent practice with Christine Hamilton
Christine is a highly experienced occupational psychologist and leadership development consultant. Her career to date has spanned across the public and private sector and she has held several positions in the British Psychological Society.
The highlights
I introduce Christine and she tells us about her career path and the road she took to independent practice 00:17
We discuss the importance of talking to people about our careers and asking for help 04:23
I ask Christine what it was like to be in a management role and introduce psychological thinking 07:20
Christine tells us where her career went next, after developing her competence as an occupational psychologist in a management role 09:58
Christine talks about her move into self employment and how she knew what she could do independently 13:56
Christine talks about the growth of her independent practice 19:25
Christine tells us about the coaching side of her work 27:26
We discuss the difference between therapy and coaching 30:00
I ask Christine how people can skill themselves up to work in this area 36:32
Christine tells us the first steps for occupational psychologists who are thinking about starting a private practice 40:22
I thank Christine and she tells us how to find her on LinkedIn 45:32
Systems For Success - Streamlining Your Processes So You Can Achieve More With Amy Mitchell
Season 1 · Episode 56
Friday, April 2, 2021 • Duration 48:41
Systems for success - streamlining your processes so you can achieve more with Amy Mitchell
Today’s episode is part of the audio from a class I recorded on efficient processes for our Psychology Business School students. Systems expert Amy Mitchell shares why and how to create processes for everything that create so much space and so much less overwhelm in your day. Working with Amy has really changed my life and business so I knew after we recorded the class that I needed to share it with all of you.
Before we get started I just wanted to let you know that, if you’d like more help taking the overwhelm out of your practice the doors are now open for Psychology Business School. PBS is our complete course covering everything you need to get your practice up and running and bringing you the fulfilment you deserve. We’ve got live classes covering everything from mindset, pricing, business planning to advanced marketing strategies. Plus you get a bundle of legal templates created by a specialist GDPR lawyer just for us so you don’t have to worry whether your privacy policy and terms and conditions are compliant any more.
If you want to:
Make enough money to support yourself in your practice
Break free from the fear of not having enough clients by developing a marketing strategy that works on repeat
Create REAL work/life balance that doesn’t involve doing your reports at 2am
Then our 12 week programme is perfect for you. Doors will only be open for a week so come over and check out the details at:
I introduce Amy and tell you how working with her has changed my life 00:17
I let you know that the doors are now open for Psychology Business School 00:41
Amy talks about her love for making things as simple as possible, and using tools to do that 02:04
When And How To Hire Your First VA In Private Practice: Outsourcing For Psychologists And Therapists
Season 1 · Episode 55
Friday, March 26, 2021 • Duration 19:55
When and how to hire your first VA in private practice: Outsourcing for psychologists and therapists
In today’s episode, we will cover why you should outsource, how to decide what to outsource and when, the types of tasks that you can outsource and some of my tips on how to do this effectively.
Why should you outsource admin in your psychology or therapy practice?
Have you noticed that if you ask me the date or time for something I never know?
It really is a huge problem for me. I am reasonably intelligent, have a good head for many things but I cannot hold any kind of number or date in my mind so, almost as soon as a date or time is mentioned to me, I have forgotten it. Any of the students on Psychology Business School or members of Do More Than Therapy will probably be aware of this fact...
This is a problem in private practice. Even though I use all of the tools like Calendly for scheduling meetings, WriteUpp for running my clinics and Google calendar for everything else I STILL double book myself all the time. And then I procrastinate about putting it right because I find it so stressful to try and find an alternative date for someone.
In the first year of my practice, I lost a lot of money because of this. I would turn down clients because I thought I had no space when that wasn’t true and I came across as deeply unprofessional with some who I had to re-book several times. I also had a contract with a company who wanted me to keep my availability up to date on their online system so they could book their employees in with me whenever they wanted and I just could not manage to do it so I rarely got work from them.
After 12 months of hating myself, I listened to a podcast that told me about a magical person called a virtual assistant. Until that moment, in my head, I had imagined that only very successful, established practices could afford help with admin. Coming from the NHS land of scarce admin support and the horrendously unequal way that support was distributed, had made me think I wasn’t really worth of it. I am guessing some of you may relate to that way of thinking. If that is you I am hoping this will be a lightbulb moment for you too…
How to write for your website: Copywriting for Psychologists and Therapists with Allie Linn
Season 1 · Episode 54
Friday, March 19, 2021 • Duration 48:24
How to write for your website: Copywriting for Psychologists and Therapists with Allie Linn
Today I am talking to Allie Linn, who has joined us all the way from Philadelphia in the US. Allie used to be a therapist, got burned out and found writing. Now she helps other therapists to write the copy for their websites and I am thrilled to have her here to give us some top tips today.
The highlights
I announce that we are running the Find Your Specialism webinar again on 1st April 2021 at 7:30 00:01
Allie tells us about her journey, and how she found herself where she is today 02:53
Allie talks about why it’s helpful to be a therapist when writing for therapists, and finding the right fit 05:26
We discuss the importance of knowing your own voice and how to find it 09:47
Allie tells us the biggest mistakes she tends to see us making on our websites 13:22
Allie tells us what bits of our websites are most important to work on, including how to rank in a google search 15:35
We talk about crafting a good story, and where to use storytelling on our website 23:25
Allie takes us through how we can tell if our writing is working for our audience 27:34
Allie talks about when it’s the right time to use a copywriter 32:59
We discuss some of the tools available to help with your writing 40:12
Allie tells us the two action step she wants us to go away and do now 43:20
Allie tells us where to find her if we want to connect with her 46:04
I give a reminder about the Find Your Specialism webinar 46:35
Case Management: A creative and flexible way to work for psychologists with Dr Shabnam Berry-Khan
Season 1 · Episode 53
Friday, March 12, 2021 • Duration 34:09
Case Management: A creative and flexible way to work for psychologists with Dr Shabnam Berry-Khan
Today I am talking to Dr Shabnam Berry Khan about her business, Psych Works. Shabnam is a Clinical Psychologist and member of the Do More Than Therapy membership so I have been wanting her to come on the podcast since I met her on a coaching call last year because she works in an area of psychology that I didn’t know much about and it sounds really exciting.
The highlights
Shabnam tells us how she got into the niche area of psychology led case management 01:02
Shabnam explains what case management is, and who it is there to help 04:42
Shabnam talks about what elements the work involves, and how that’s related to costings 08:61
We discuss how psychologists are well placed to carry out case management 11:00
Shabnam tells us how her business evolved after starting this type of work in an employed role 14:53
We talk about imposter syndrome and holding your own as a psychologist with other professions that seem more self assured 18:58
Shabnam tells us how she’s looking for more case management associates, and also those interested in broad range private practice within the medico-legal field, and what you need and don’t need for that 24:51
Shabnam tells us where people can find her if they want to connect 31:08
Essential Communication Skills For Psychologists And Therapists With Jase Taylor
Season 1 · Episode 52
Friday, March 5, 2021 • Duration 48:57
Essential communication skills for psychologists and therapists with Jase Taylor
Today I’m here with Jase Taylor from Oxford Communication Skills. Jase is a communication skills expert and is also married to a Clinical psychologist so he has a lot of insight into what we do and has some really useful insights to help us amplify our messages around mental health.
The highlights
Jase tells us the interesting story behind his career, and how he became a communication skills expert 00:48
Jase talks about how we can train ourselves to be better communicators 10:51
Jase defines for us what he means by communication skills 13:06
Jase talks about when it is most important to get our communication right 16:38
We discuss being authentic, and how it has to be your message to be comfortable 18:19
Jase tells us what communication strengths he sees in mental health professionals 31:51
We talk about bringing out individual style and strengths, and the importance of this for diversity and inclusivity 36:04
Jase tells us what tips he would give if I was invited to do a TED talk tomorrow 42:21
Jase tells us how people can find him if they want to work with him 46:17
Unlocking your Inner Entrepreneur with Kathy Adcock
Season 2 · Episode 51
Friday, February 26, 2021 • Duration 52:31
Unlocking your Inner Entrepreneur with Kathy Adcock
Kathy Adcock is a clinical psychologist, a boxer, and the founder of social enterprise In Your Corner. She's also a passionate social entrepreneur. She's here today to talk a bit about her journey, and how we can develop that entrepreneurial spirit.
The highlights
Kathy tells us what she does with In Your Corner, and how it all began 02:52
Kathy explains how she turned In Your Corner into a reality 04:14
Kathy talks about finding people who believe in the idea and being a sole director 08:21
We discuss trusting others with your idea 09:24
We talk about the speed of decision making when it’s your own business 11:07
We discuss the benefits of doing different jobs in the NHS in order to learn key skills, and how NHS experiences give us the impetus to create a social enterprise 12:00
We talk about the importance of having qualified and experienced people working on social enterprises, and the impact on costs 15:20
Kathy speaks about the need to be assertive and not undersell yourself 18:39
We discuss income, and charging the right amount 20:15
Kathy explains how entrepreneurship is not just having the idea, but doing it 21:27
We discuss how marketing is listening, and the importance of listening to feedback and objections 23:42
We talk about the identity of being a psychologist and an entrepreneur 30:40
We explore the ownership of expertise, and collaborative versus leadership skills 38:15
Kathy discusses how the autonomy of the psychology profession is a good fit for entrepreneurship 43:19
Kathy tells the things she recommends would-be entrepreneurs work on 44:19
We discuss getting help for, and giving away the bits you don’t want, like finance 46:41
Kathy tells us where we can find out more, and how to get in touch if you’re interested in becoming a partner 49:12
Links to find Kathy:
There are a myriad of directory sites to choose from, and the good news is that most of them offer a free trial, so you can test which ones work for you.
What I do, and what I'm going to talk through today, is I create a perfect profile, which I save in a Google Doc, and then I just copy and paste it into different platforms that I want to try out.
At a minimum, I'd recommend trying out Psychology Today, Counseling Directory, and Find My Psychologist, but it's worth doing a search for a 'psychologist or therapist near me' and seeing what directory sites are dominating the search results near you, because it is different postcode to postcode, and you really want to make sure you're on those sites that are coming top for your area. For example, where I am, if I type in ‘psychologist in Tunbridge Wells’, the first results are from Harley Therapy, Psychology Today and Counseling Directory. So if I was starting out, those would be places that I'd really want to consider.
There are some basic principles for a good directory site profile, that if you follow, you're going to be streets ahead of most people out there, because most profiles on directory sites are really awful. I'm going to talk you through some top tips, and then if you're in summer school, you will be able to use my template, which I've put underneath this lesson, in order to craft your directory site profile.
If this is difficult and it doesn't come naturally to you, it's actually worth recording your side of a conversation with a new client and looking at the phrases that you use and what you say and how you explain who you are and what you do when you're really in front of somebody. For me, I can do this as a bit of an imagination exercise. As I'm writing, I just imagine that I'm speaking to a real person that's come to me and is asking ‘how can you help me with X, Y, or Z?’ But I know that that doesn't come naturally for everybody, so sometimes it's about recording those real life interactions, because if you've been a therapist for a while, you're good at this, it's just sometimes difficult to get it out on paper.
You can't speak to everybody in your profile, you're just going to blend into the background. So make sure that you pick a particular client group to speak to. This is something we talk about a lot in Start and Grow; deciding on that specialism and who your ideal client is, is really important. But for now just pick your favourite type of client, the people that you've worked with most successfully in the past and go with that.
When it comes to talking about your approach, say a few confident lines about this, let them know about your experience and literally how you will help them, but don't go into reams and reams about how your unique approach to therapy is X, Y, or Z. People can't make sense of that if they've got no prior experience of therapy, it's likely that every single word you use will just come across as jargon to them, even though it isn’t to us. I would know what you mean, but we're thinking about the ideal client, and if they haven't had therapy before, things like 'safe space' even, just sound like rubbish to them. So try and steer clear of that sort of thing and just talk about ‘my 25 years of experience in therapy, experience in the NHS working in this area to help you overcome the problems that you're facing with X, Y, and Z. I offer...,’ and then maybe something like, talking therapies like CBT and trauma focused therapies like EMDR. That would be enough. You really don't need to overwhelm people with more, which is probably most often more written for our peers than it is for the ideal client. So steer clear of that and just a few confident lines.
Give your core qualification and then maybe one or two other things which really say something about the way that you work. For example, if you are EMDR accredited, that's probably worth mentioning. But if you did a two day course in CFT, that's probably not worth mentioning, but if you've done the CFT Diploma, maybe that is. Keep it to core qualification plus maybe one or two other things if they're really important to the way that you work.
Have an easy booking system and make sure it's really explicit. If the person needs to send an email to book with you, tell them to do that. If they need to phone, tell them to do that. Give one way of doing it. If you've set up something like Calendly or Acuity or you're using the WriteUpp booking system that we talked about in the tools lesson, then tell them about that and tell them exactly how to do it.
If you offer a free consultation, tell them that's what's going to happen and then afterwards you will follow up with your recommendations. However you do it, just make it really clear what needs to happen next and what will happen immediately afterwards.
None of this kind of sliding scale, none of this inquire and then I'll tell you the fee. No. People get really anxious about fees, understandably. Put yourself in their shoes. When I've been inquiring about therapy, the thing that is on my mind is can I afford this and what am I going to pay over the next three months, six months, 12 months, however long I think I'm going to need therapy for. And it's terrifying. People do not want to have a conversation, get to the end of it and have to tell you that they can't afford you. Horrible for everybody. Don't put anybody through it. Make your fees really explicit.
If you don't have one, put that on your list of things to get sorted, because people need to feel that they have a sense of who you are and what your presence is like and the photo really communicates that, and it's very difficult to get right on your own. You need to make sure that there are no weird shadows over your face, and that you just look how you really look. So making sure that you've got a really good quality image will really help. There's lots of evidence that people do use those to make decisions about who they contact. So make sure you've got the best image you can possibly get. I really recommend going to local networking events and finding a local photographer to do that for you. It's not that expensive and it can make a really big difference to your profile success.
So overall, the key here is to write your profile for an overwhelmed potential client, not for your peers. We talk about this loads in Psychology Business School and especially in the Start and Grow programme, and we spend a lot of time giving each other feedback on profiles because even I struggled to do this. After years and years of helping other people with their own, I still struggle to get mine right because it's very difficult to see your profile through the eyes of a potential client when you've got all your own stuff in your own head going on about it. So sharing what you've got for feedback is my biggest piece of advice. And don't worry if you need to tweak it a few times to get it right, because we all do.
If you're in summer school, then there's a template below this lesson that you can use to create a great profile. And remember, it doesn't...
I ask Kirstie about the writing process 26:52
We discuss going direct to a publisher, rather than using an agent 32:42
Kirstie gives us her advice for psychologists and therapists wanting to write a book 37:50
Thank you so much for listening to the Business of Psychology podcast. I'd really appreciate it if you could take the time to subscribe, rate and review the show. It helps more mental health professionals just like you to find us, and it also means a lot to me personally when I read the reviews. Thank you in advance and we'll see you next week for another episode of practical strategy and inspiration to move your independent practice forward.
Do you sometimes wake up at 2 am worried that you’ve made a terrible error that will bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family?
I’m laughing now but when I first set up in private practice I was completely terrified that I had “missed” something big when setting up insurance or data protection.
Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I have really covered all the bases.
It is hard, no impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business. BUT it can be overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in.
I’ve created a free checklist (plus resources list) to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and theirs.
Welcome to the business of psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.
Rosie Gilderthorp 00:17
Today, I'm talking to Christine Hamilton. Christine is a highly experienced occupational psychologist and leadership development consultant. Her career to date has spanned across the public and private sector, and she's had several positions in the British Psychological Society. There's so much I'm keen to talk to you about today, Christine, so thank you so much for coming on and welcome to the podcast.
Christine Hamilton 00:38
Thank you very much Rosie, I barely recognise that introduction, so thank you for it.
Rosie Gilderthorp 00:45
Well, something that I hear a lot from members of the Do More Than Therapy community is that it can be really difficult for applied psychologists who aren't clinical or counselling psychologists to visualise what an independent practice would mean for them. I've also been having lots of conversations recently with students on Psychology Business School, about the difference between coaching and therapy, and what role we can take in leadership development. So I think there's going to be a lot of listeners today who are going to gain a lot from hearing from you. So firstly, it would be brilliant to get to know a little bit about your career path and the road that you took into independent practice.
Christine Hamilton 01:26
It was very much a sort of tacking away and then a tacking back, I would say, when I look backwards at my career, so after my degree in psychology, it was the early 80s, there were no jobs, so definitely resonance with these days, and took clerical jobs after I left University, thought, I'm never going to be able to apply my psychology. So did some personnel management qualifications. And again, there were no graduate roles that I could find in South Wales at the time. But by by chance, applied for a management training scheme, in the Department of Employment and started to see connections between psychology and employment. They're very obvious connections, but it really came home to me that we were in a situation where we had to enable vast amounts of people to get, one, get jobs, retain them, and two get some training that would get them out of dead end occupations, and into new ones. So it was a fascinating time to be involved in large scale schemes to enable some of that transition for a lot of people. So started to tenuously see my psychology in that frame. And then moved on, moved up and managed all sorts of offices and schemes in the southeast of England, and then moved back to Scotland, and happened to see an advert that was about graduate training schemes, and thought, in the NHS, and thought, oh, that's fascinating, that's an interesting area, and discovered that a lot of it was about assessment for part of the year, and then about development. Bringing these young people in to parts of the NHS, helping them acclimatise, and also get professional qualifications. And of course, that's at the heart of occupational psychology. Who is suited to a role, who could deal with the complexities of this particular kind of the public sector, part of public sector, who could become a manager and a leader of people? So I was again, tacking my way back to assessment of people, young people, and got drawn back into the world of psychology through my network. And I thought, you know, this is really an area I need supervision on, spoke to local psychologists, built up my knowledge, used some of their services, piggybacked on their expertise. And then gradually thought, now I really need to go for my chartered status. So it was very incremental forwards and backwards as the job required, and as my interest was piqued, I'd say.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:23
I really love the method in there about talking to people and being open about what you're doing, and what you'd like to be doing. Because I think often, you know, we're not sure where we're going. We're not sure what we can do with our qualifications, but there are people out there who are doing inspirational things. And usually they're quite happy to talk about it.
Christine Hamilton 04:44
Yes. More often than not, unless they're very very up against it, people enjoy having a cup of coffee when we can do that, and just talking and listening. They love it. I don't think I've had many refusals, personally for me or for anybody else, when I said, would you mind talking to this person about? I could count the fingers on one hand, of people who have said no, and it's been for very good reasons.
Rosie Gilderthorp 05:15
Yeah, me too. And I think if you think about our own behaviour, I think certainly recently, I've been getting messages on LinkedIn, from people who are applying for the clinical psychology doctorate. I always try and help. Because I think we all know how privileged we are, to be able to call ourselves psychologists, it's certainly not an easy route, and you need a lot of luck and other things to get there. So I think there's a lot of goodwill in psychology and in therapy, that means if you reach out to somebody, it's really likely they're going to try and help you.
Christine Hamilton 05:48
Very much. I think, I think we all have either been there or know close relatives who are there, so there is a lot of appreciation of that. But I think I would say that, and this is my ignorance of other divisions, but I'd say occupational psychology has particular problems, in that we have very, very few, and it's getting even less, opportunities to be trained as occupational psychologists and paid at the same time. Usually, we have to do HR roles, training and development roles under the banner of...
We look at the key processes that people need to have in place, beginning with client onboarding 04:53
Amy tells us the key components a good client onboarding and monitoring system should have 12:59
Amy takes us through systems we can use for responding to, and monitoring enquiries 17:00
We discuss putting processes into action, and how to map out your processes without making it into a massive job 22.10
We talk about processes for invoicing and collecting CPD resources 27.01
Amy takes us through the tech we can use to help us 33:57
Amy tells us about the Asana mini training she has 43:53
I remind you about Psychology Business School 47:02
If this makes you want to try WriteUpp please use my referral link to sign up. It doesn't cost you anything and means they give me a small bonus, thank you!***********
I just wanted to let you know that the doors are now open for Psychology Business School. PBS is our complete course covering everything you need to get your practice up and running and bringing you the fulfilment you deserve. We’ve got live classes covering everything from mindset, pricing, business planning to advanced marketing strategies. Plus you get a bundle of legal templates created by a specialist GDPR lawyer just for us so you don’t have to worry whether your privacy policy and terms and conditions are compliant any more.
If you want to:
Make enough money to support yourself in your practice
Break free from the fear of not having enough clients by developing a marketing strategy that works on repeat.
Create REAL work/life balance that doesn’t involve doing your reports at 2am
Then our 12 week programme is perfect for you. Doors will only be open for a week so come over and check out the details at:
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast. The show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.
Rosie Gilderthorp 00:17
Today's episode is part of the audio from a class I recorded on efficient processes for our Psychology Business School students. Systems expert Amy Mitchell shares why and how to create processes for everything that creates so much space and so much less overwhelm in your day. Working with Amy has really changed my life and my business, so I knew after we recorded the class that I had to share it with all of you. Before we get started, I just want to let you know that if you'd like more help taking the overwhelm out of your practice, the doors are now open for Psychology Business School. PBS is our complete course covering everything you need to get your practice up and running, and bringing you the fulfilment that you deserve. We've got live classes covering everything from mindset, pricing, business planning, to advanced marketing strategies. Plus, you get a bundle of legal templates created by a specialist GDPR lawyer just for us. So you don't have to worry whether your privacy policy and terms and conditions are compliant anymore. So if you want to make enough money to support yourself in your practice, break free from the fear of not having enough clients by developing a marketing strategy that works on repeat, and create real work life balance that doesn't involve doing your reports at two o'clock in the morning, then our 12 week programme is perfect for you. Doors will only be open for a week, so come over and check out the details at psychologybusinessschool.com. The details are all in the show notes.
Rosie Gilderthorp 01:45
Hello, everybody, and welcome to our session on systems, which all of you probably know how excited I am. But I'm particularly excited because today we've got Amy Mitchell here with us. And Amy is an incredible specialist in all things systems. So I shall let you introduce yourself properly Amy.
Amy Mitchell 02:04
Thank you, thank you, I'm so happy to be here, I'm really just grateful that you thought of me because I know that systems can be something that can be really overwhelming. And one of the things I love is to make it as simple as possible and like cut away all the things you don't need and really think okay, what do we want to accomplish here? And how can we get some tools or technology or processes to support us. And so I geek out on making system simple, as much as possible. And I like I really love to help people create systems that align with the person using the system, not just cookie cutter systems. So super excited to talk about your workflows and the way that that you all run businesses. Yeah, so I help people set up systems, and I do it in a human focused way. In a nutshell.
Rosie Gilderthorp 02:54
Basically, the Psychology business School that this is part of is all about reducing the overwhelm of being in private practice. And I've taken Amy's course and used her work to develop my systems, and oh, my word, the difference is massive. Overwhelm just comes down instantly when you know you've got your systems underneath you supporting you. So I'm really passionate about that, I'm really excited that you're here to share it with everybody.
Amy Mitchell 03:22
Thank you so much. I'll tell you a funny side story yesterday, I was on like a YouTube kind of game show with a couple of productivity experts that I met through Janet Marie actually. And we had to bring apps that we really love to increase productivity. And we were kind of competing against each other. And the other productivity experts kind of brought apps that helped you like get more done and bring more into your world and process more. And the apps that I brought were about removing distraction and making things simpler and clearer and I ended up winning. Because people really do want less, not more. And it's so powerful to create systems with that lens. Like I don't need to do more, I need to do more of the right things and actually clear away a lot of the things that are pulling my attention that don't deserve to call my attention.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:14
Yes, I love that about what you do. And I've been reading some really interesting research recently about the impact of dopamine and our the way that we can become addicted, basically to checking, to the action of checking things. And I think we all recognise that in ourselves, don't we? When things are kind of pinging at us from all angles, it can be really, really difficult to focus on anything that matters to us.
Amy Mitchell ...
If you are doing less admin you can see more clients and earn more money than you pay for admin support!
I will say that again. If you do less admin you will earn more money.
For me it was instant. I took on my first VA, Samantha Dawkins from Koala VA in Plymouth and within a week she had made me £300 simply by keeping my diary up to date on the online booking system for the company I had a contract with. She is a specialist VA and they tend to charge between £20 and £40 per hour so they are not cheap but, because she is good at what she doe, reconciling my diary every day took her only a few minutes. It would have taken me a full hour.
Even better… Once you hand over tasks that really stress you out like that you have more time available for marketing, networking events and seeing the people on your waiting list so whatever your problem whether you have not enough or too many clients, outsourcing the stuff that sucks your time and that you are just bad at is really helpful.
How do I decide what to outsource in my psychology practice and when?
Here are some key outsourcing principles I wish I had known from the beginning:
Outsource what you are worst at first. If there is something that takes you ages because it is just not natural for you give it to someone who can do it in half the time. It will free up your time, energy and creativity for tasks that will actually bring money into your practice. There is actually quite a lot that falls into this category for me. As I mentioned the first thing I outsourced was my biggest weakness, the diary. Then I had to look at what else I messed up most frequently… invoicing…
Next outsource things that are just overwhelming in volume. This didn’t happen to me until this year but I reached the point that the enquiries coming through my website and directory profiles became simply too much for me to handle. Again, I noticed myself procrastinating replying to anyone because I just felt too overwhelmed by my inbox. This was not good so I outsourced my inbox this year.
Then outsource tasks that you might be OK at but that don’t require your expertise. For me, this was video and podcast editing. I actually like doing those things so I didn’t outsource them for ages but I realised that the hours I was spending on them were hours I could be spending recording more episodes and going to networking events, two key priorities for my business this year. So I found the lovely Natali from Lime-VBS. Not only does she do a better job than me (you can probably hear the difference) but she also makes sure that I am accountable to recording when I say I will record. My podcast productivity has shot up as a result.
Finally, outsource the stuff that you are good at but that someone else can do. You will reach the point eventually when you need to take more strategic oversight in your business if you want to grow it. It may be at this stage that you need to think about hiring other people to do some of the tasks you actually love if your vision is to grow something bigger than a one or two person practice. This is exciting but terrifying and is kind of where I am at at the moment. In order to grow something with big impact you do need to have time to think like a CEO and that usually means letting someone else in. There will be some things that only you can do. For example, it wouldn’t make much sense for me to let someone else host my podcast or write my social media posts. A HUGE part of my business is about talking to you guys and the people my clinical work serves and understanding my community on a deep level is literally what I am all about. I get help with graphics etc but I would never want to outsource my podcast or presence on social media. It wouldn’t fit with the purpose of my business at all. It is crucial to recognise when you might need to bring on a more substantial team evaluate your vision for the business. Not every business requires this stage. I will let you know how that transition goes for me!
Tip for growing your private practice with outsourcing.
When you have been in your practice for a while it might feel like you need to outsource quite a lot of tasks. When this happens it makes sense to map out your “client” experience from the moment they come in to contact with your website to the moment that they are discharged from working with you. Map all the tasks that happen between those two points, clinical (like sessions) and functional tasks like (feedback forms sent, invoices sent monthly etc). This is called end to end process mapping. If you have several different types of client or services you offer you might need to do this for several client groups. For example, I have this mapped out for therapy clients, organisations I support, PBS students and DMTT members separately. Then step back and look at which steps should be done by you and which should be outsourced. Then try to hire one person that can do ALL the outsourceable steps in that process. If you can do that it makes for a far better client experience. I have done this recently as I previously had lots of people doing little tasks for me and communication between us all was a challenge. Now I have one VA, wonderful Anna from Owl Business Solutions, who does all of the admin tasks for all the clinical side of my business. It is already working far better and it means my clients all know that for admin and scheduling issues Anna is the person to go to.
If you are interested in mapping out your processes and you are a member of Psychology Business School we have a class on how to do this in Asana with processes expert Amy Mitchell so go and have a look at that one.
Tasks you might want to outsource in your psychology/therapy practice:
Diary management
Inbox management
Podcast editing
Video editing
Bookkeeping
Accounts
Community management (someone to help you run and social groups you have)
Graphics for social media
Social media scheduling
Copywriting
Things to have in place when hiring
If you employ someone you will need to make sure they are trained up in data protection, GDPR and how to handle sensitive data in accordance with your professional bodies requirements. You would also be responsible for any other training they need to do their job well.
However, most of the time you will outsource to freelancers in the first instance. These are self-employed people and it is their responsibility to make sure they have the right training. When I am looking to outsource I create a job description and interview freelancers who seem to fit the bill. I ask them to evidence that they have training in the areas I need them to be good at and have a contract with them that...
I really wanted to take a moment to tell you about something very exciting that's coming up soon. On Thursday, the 1st of April at 7:30 we are running our Find Your Specialism webinar. This was a big hit when we ran it back in January, and lots of you got in touch to ask if we were going to be running it again, and I'm very pleased to say that we are. So in the webinar we are going to cover why you need to specialise, the secret of a successful specialism, and then we're going to help you figure out what your specialism can be. And I really encourage you, if you are feeling overwhelmed in your private practice, if you're struggling with all the things that you could do, all the shiny objects that are out there, and you need a bit of clarity to move you forward, this is the webinar for you. I'd really encourage anybody who's starting out on their private practice journey to join us for an hour of free training. I'll be there as well to answer any questions that you might have about getting started in private practice. And there will be a special offer at the end for anybody who's thinking about joining our next cohort of Psychology Business School in April. So that is the 1st of April 2021 at 7:30. I hope to see as many of you as possible there.
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy. Before we get started with today's show, I really wanted to take a moment to tell you about something very exciting that's coming up soon. On Thursday, the 1st of April at 7:30 we are running our Find Your Specialism webinar. This was a big hit when we ran it back in January, and lots of you got in touch to ask if we could, if we were going to be running it again. And I'm very pleased to say that we are. So in the webinar, we're going to cover why you need to specialise, the secret of a successful specialism. And then we're going to help you figure out what your specialism can be. And I really encourage you, if you are feeling overwhelmed in your private practice, if you're struggling with all the things that you could do, all the shiny objects that are out there, and you need a bit of clarity to move you forward, this is the webinar for you. I'd really encourage anybody who's starting out on their private practice journey to join us for an hour of free training. I'll be there as well to answer any questions that you might have about getting started in private practice. And there will be a special offer at the end for anybody who's thinking about joining our next cohort of Psychology Business School in April. So that is the 1st of April at 7:30. And that's 2021 for anyone who's listening in the future. And I hope to see as many of you as possible there. All the links that you need are in the show notes. So on with the show.
Rosie Gilderthorp 01:41
Today, I'm talking to Allie Lynn. Allie's joined us all the way from Philadelphia in the US, so we're really lucky to have her. And we're extra lucky because Allie used to be a therapist, got burnt out and then found writing. And now she helps other therapists to write the copy for their websites. And I'm really thrilled to have her here to give us some top tips today. So hi Allie, welcome to the podcast.
Allie Linn 02:03
Hi Rosie, thank you so much for having me.
Rosie Gilderthorp 02:06
So I can't wait to talk about writing, because I am a writer at heart. I've written my whole life. But I know it's something that so many of the students on Psychology Business School, particularly struggle with, because it's not something that you have to be good at to be a therapist or a psychologist. And it's a real skill in itself to be able to communicate with the, with your audience through writing. So I'm really looking forward to getting your top tips. And I'm sure there's going to be loads of notes that people are going to want to take. So top tip go and get yourself a notepad if you haven't got one already. I've got mine. And I'm expecting to be making some notes today. But before we dive into that, let's find out a little bit more about you and your journey. So how did you find yourself where you are today?
Allie Linn 02:53
Yeah, so I was a therapist for five years. Primarily, I was a dance movement therapist, although I did a lot of other types of therapy. And I worked mostly in inpatient psychiatric hospitals, which really burnt me out. I just am not built for that kind of setting. And I kept trying, and I kept trying, and it just wasn't working. And I started getting sick. And I was getting stress migraines, and I couldn't do a job. And it was just, you know, anxiety attacks. And I finally decided to step back. And around that time, I met a freelance writer, she writes for lawyers. But she told me what freelance writing was, I started looking into it. I've always been a writer myself, but, you know, I was more of a researcher in grad school, so copywriting is a completely different set of skills. It's a completely different set of skills from writing books to and so, um, I found a course about a year ago, yeah, about a year ago now. And I, it's very comprehensive, it kind of walked me through like, you know, what SEO is and how to write for, you know, marketing and how to use your writing in a storytelling way and how to write the way you talk. So once I found that it really helped me guide myself into being a business owner, which I hadn't thought of myself for a while I kind of was like, I'm going to write I'm going to be a writer, but I don't really know what that means. So once I found copywriting, it gave me a lane to go down.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:44
Because I think a lot of people listening to this might have an interest in writing, you know, maybe they enjoyed writing academic papers, maybe they've written journal articles. But like you say, it's such a different thing when you sit down you're trying to sell yourself through your writing, I think a lot of people, they look at the cursor and it blinks at them. And it's just a total blank. I know that's how I felt when I came to write my first website. I just had no idea what to say about myself or communicate as me on there. So yeah, it's great to hear that, that you managed to kind of find a way to channel your existing talent into that and learn that skill set.
Allie Linn 05:26
Yeah. And also, I think, you know, you don't have to be a therapist to write for therapists, but I think it helps a lot.
Rosie Gilderthorp 05:34
And why do you think that's so helpful?
Allie Linn 05:36
Well, because I understand the world of therapy. I have done CBT I have done DBT. I have done Creative Arts therapy, I've worked in different settings. So I know, what am I, I, I've studied, you know, different types of therapy. So when I'm talking to a therapist, for the first time I, I have a base knowledge of what their, what they...
Do you sometimes wake up at 2 am worried that you’ve made a terrible error that will bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family?
I’m laughing now but when I first set up in private practice I was completely terrified that I had “missed” something big when setting up insurance or data protection.
Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I have really covered all the bases.
It is hard, no impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business. BUT it can be overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in.
I’ve created a free checklist (plus resources list) to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and theirs.
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.
Rosie Gilderthorp 00:16
Today I'm talking to Dr. Shabnam Berry-Khan about her business, Psych Works. Shabnam is a clinical psychologist and a member of Do More Than Therapy, who I've been wanting to come on the podcast since I met her on a coaching call last year, because she works in an area of psychology that I really didn't know much about, and it sounds really exciting. So welcome to the podcast Shabnam.
Shabnam Berry-Khan 00:38
Yeah, thanks, Rosie, that was lovely. Yeah, thanks for being here. Actually, it's, it's a really nice opportunity to talk a little bit about sort of an area of the application of psychology that I think people may have some misconceptions about. And, or may just not know an awful lot about. So I really appreciate the opportunity. So thank you.
Rosie Gilderthorp 01:02
Yeah, I'm really pleased that you're here. Because, as I mentioned, as a member of Do More Than Therapy, I had the chance to kind of see some of your work, and you're on the blogging challenge, and I could see some of the stuff that you're writing about. But really, I don't think I'd ever heard of case management before. Even though I've done, I've probably done a little bit and been managed by a case manager when I look back at it, because I've done a bit of treatment work for medico-legal, the medico-legal system. But yeah, I really didn't understand anything about how that system works, it's been fascinating to get to know you a bit. And I think you've got a really great example of a niche, because I believe that you're the only psychology led case management service in the UK. Is that right?
Shabnam Berry-Khan 01:46
I think we are and not by design, I have to say, as many great things, you know, may may may be, you know, maybe may may have come down that pathway, but very much so, it's very unusual to find psychologists in the case management world, it's not like I'm the only one, there are a number of us, a small handful actually, but you find that people are either case managers, or they are psychologists, and what we've tried to do is kind of combine the two. So the, the thing about the case management is that I fell into it anyway. So accidentally, having felt very oppressed, you know, in a sort of NHS role and thinking that oh, gosh, is this what clinical psychology is all about? So that took me about a year, year and a half to work out. This was very different to what I thought it would be like. And I saw an advert in a BPF magazine, one of the BPF publications at the time saying, you know, would you like to be a case manager and I thought, you know what, I'm just going do it. And I was working in a neurodevelopmental service at the time, so it felt like it wasn't a massive leap into what is sort of brain injury, a lot of personal injury clients are brain injured. So we are talking about some, some very sort of neuro based interventions and thinking about people in a very sort of systemic way. And I, I just thought, I'm going to do it, I found out I was really... my friend, my colleague and I were the only team psychologists really doing it. And psychology was so misunderstood. I think. It's probably the best way to describe it in the case management world. Because I guess, because psychologists don't tend to do case management, because they, I think traditionally it's come very much so from a background of practical functional, physical, rehabilitation. So a lot of case managers are OTs, physiotherapists, you do get a number that sort of social work, public social work, background, speech and language therapists, but not really anything that is like what we do in terms of our training. So when we joined, there were quite a few questions around, you know, how can a psychologist be helpful and I'm thinking how can we not be helpful? You know, from the individual to the system, working with carers, thinking about the professional network, holding all those dynamics that we know from the research does very much so facilitate or indeed impede the process of rehabilitation.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:42
Yeah, so I mean, I think I can see so clearly how our skill set would be really valuable for that system. And but let's go back a couple of paces. And could you just describe, you know, what case management is and the people that it's there to help.
Shabnam Berry-Khan 04:59
Sure, that's a good question. And I, sometimes I get, you know, often I think I know what the answer is. And then I think, oh gosh, it's actually more nuanced than that, or it's more complex than that. So on the in a very brief description, a case manager is someone who supports the client through their personal injury journey, their personal injury journey is one that has altered their life so significantly that pretty much every aspect of their life needs some kind of input. So a case manager supports that package of care and therapy very broadly speaking, in order to achieve those rehabilitation goals. The twist on that is that you are working very much so within that medico-legal framework. So you are very much so in touch with solicitors, if it's an unsettled case, which means that the solicitors are still building the quantum, the financial claim element of the case, what that, you end up working very closely with them. In the event that the case is settled, and there perhaps is a deputy for someone who's holding that claim money that has been awarded, it's a horrible word, but awarded to the client, you then end up liaising with them very much so about what is required and why. So there's a clinical element in terms of justification, in terms of being able to demonstrate the progress, the progress that the client would have with that support. And there's an element of sort of the people management, if you like, of it, the care teams are in place, and they need to know what they've got to do. And there's multidisciplinary teams that need to be chaired, and the input that they provide, and the minutes that...
Do you sometimes wake up at 2 am worried that you’ve made a terrible error that will bring professional ruin upon you and disgrace your family?
I’m laughing now but when I first set up in private practice I was completely terrified that I had “missed” something big when setting up insurance or data protection.
Even now, three years in, I sometimes catch myself wondering if I have really covered all the bases.
It is hard, no impossible, to think creatively and have the impact you should be having in your practice if you aren’t confident that you have a secure business. BUT it can be overwhelming to figure out exactly what you need to prioritise before those clients start coming in.
I’ve created a free checklist (plus resources list) to take the thinking out of it. Tick off every box and you can see your clients confident in the knowledge that you have everything in place for your security and theirs.
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy. Today, I'm here with Jase Taylor from Oxford Communication Skills. Jase is a communication skills expert, and is also married to a clinical psychologist. So he's got a lot of insight into what we do and has some really useful ideas to help us amplify our messages around mental health. So welcome to the podcast, Jase. Before we get started, I know that you've got quite an interesting story behind your career. So could you tell us a little bit about how and why you became a communications expert?
Jase Taylor 00:48
It's a slightly convoluted route. To be honest, I started off training as an engineer, software and algorithms engineer, all the way through A Levels, University and into a full time job. And communications was sort of part of that in the way that it's part of a lot of jobs that people generally do, you have to deal with clients and colleagues and meetings and things. But in general, it wasn't a front and centre aspect of it. But it was following a house move relocation, I found myself looking for kind of interesting evening activities. And I found a local branch of an international competition called Fame Lab, which has a bit of a cringe title, but it's about science communication, and and scientists, researchers, academics, communicating, communicating their science to the public. So I so went along and just sat in the audience, and there were a dozen or so sort of PhD students or whatever, communicating their, their bit of research with with passion and excitement, and it was great, I loved it. And it's an annual competition, I thought, well, maybe, maybe I can have a go, it doesn't, doesn't look too difficult. You know, it's quite cheerful, positive, supportive audience. That sounds fun. So the following year, I applied and got through the first round, and then the second round, and, and I found myself in the grand final on a on a stage at a theatre in London, and came away as a runner up, and it was on the train home, really, with with my wife with sort of certificate in hand, and she just asked me quite bluntly, you're quite good at this, is that a chance for you to do this, do more of this in your in your current job? Or if you get promotion? I thought for a moment, and the answer really was just no. And so the question then became well is it may be time to look for something that, that does let you do more of this. So that was, that moment was the catalyst really. And then within 10, or 11 days of that moment, I was on the phone, receiving a job offer to take up teaching at a secondary school, having so applied and whirlwind interview and all this stuff. And that kicked me off into teaching. And then I realised that teaching was just kind of a really lovely connection to this communication, I thought, well, maybe I could teach others how to communicate so that they can enjoy it as much as I do. And so that's what I've been doing. I started off tutoring and mentoring subsequent rounds of competitors in Fame Lab here in the local heats and then getting involved with kind of national competitors to and it grew from there, dealing with people going off, and then it's a springboard for people who want to go off and do some YouTube channels or TEDx talks, things like that.
Rosie Gilderthorp 03:28
That is so cool. Who knew there was a Fame Lab.
Jase Taylor 03:32
I know, I know. It's not really like anything that you kind of come across in other aspects. There's no, well as far as I'm aware, there's no awards for communicating about, I don't know, pick a subject. But, but here it is, science of communication. And I mean, let's be honest, the last year, the last 18 months have shown if anything, the massive importance of being able to communicate accurate science well, to everybody, without misleading them, or confusing or overwhelming them. It's, it's so important, and lots of, I'm not detracting from people who do this, lots of people are very good at this, but it's something that everybody can improve on, and it's something that lots of people would really benefit from having more, more coaching on, of course.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:21
Oh, it's so true. I think my brain was turning over on this subject the other night, actually, because it struck me that there's a huge difference in public perception at the moment, because we are recording this still in the middle of the pandemic. I feel like I've been saying that on this podcast for too long now.
Jase Taylor 04:38
You've noticed that the people have stopped saying it's unprecedented because we've done we've got 18 months of precedent now.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:46
Yeah, this thing we're all very used to, but he's a bit rubbish. And, and it yeah, it was really striking me that one of the government's scientific advisors was not communicating the advice very well. And I was saying to my husband, like, oh my god, he needs to say this, he needs to say that. Because you know, knowing a little bit about behavioural science, and what gets a message through to people, I was like you've just confused the entire nation on a fairly simple point, really. However, contrasting that with some of the other advisors who are much better communicators, and it just felt like a Russian Roulette really, of who gets pulled out, and depends really what the public is going to be able to take away from it. So I completely agree with you, I think it could not be more important than it is right now. And in mental health, it's, it's just make or break for our clients, really, if you don't understand the evidence base behind what you're being presented with, you know, whether that's CBT, or a medication that a psychiatrist might be recommending, if you don't understand it, that's not informed consent. It's not ethical to do something that that the person on the other end of it doesn't understand. And I think it happens far, far too often.
Jase Taylor 06:08
Yeah. And likewise, if you're involved in some research, and you've got some fantastic new...
Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast, the show that helps you to reach more people, help more people and build the life you want to live by doing more than therapy.
This weeks podcast episode is really special to me because it’s the kind of episode that reminds me exactly why I started the business of psychology podcast. It’s also the 50th episode to be published of the business of psychology so it’s a really big milestone for this podcast. So before I launch into the interview with Dr Cathy Adcock where we talking all about entrepreneurship and how the entrepreneurial spirit can help us to have more impact on mental health and how we can foster that in ourselves which is such an exciting topic which I’m really excited to share with you all. I just wanted to announce that we are having a little bit of a celebration this week and at the same time trying to increase the reach of this podcast. So as you may know (or you may not know) the number of reviews that a podcast has determines how many people the podcast platforms show the podcast to. So if you want to grow your podcast you really need to get some good positive reviews. So with that in mind, I really want to grow the reach this podcast because I’m really really proud of the content that we’ve created. I’m really proud of what me and the members of the team here at the business of psychology have produced and I’m really proud of a lot of the inspiring people that come on and spoken to us. So I want to get his podcast out to more people and a great way to do that is asking all of you guys, listening now, to swipe up on your podcast app go to the show notes bit and leave us a five star review and if you do that, take a screenshot and share it on social and tag me in. I’m @domorethantherapy on Facebook and @rosiegilderthorp on Instagram. Then I will enter you into a competition and you might just win a £50 Amazon voucher. Feeling generous, feeling flush because it is a big celebration week for us this week. So please if you enjoy the podcast if you get value from it, please do rate, review and share it and let’s get this podcast out to more people. So without further adieu, let’s get on with the show!
Today I'm talking to Dr. Cathy Adcock. Kathy is a clinical psychologist, a boxer, and the founder of social enterprise In Your Corner. She's also a passionate social entrepreneur. And she's here today to talk a bit about her journey, and how we can develop that entrepreneurial spirit. Welcome to the podcast, Kathy.
Kathy Adcock 02:51
Hi, thanks for having me.
Rosie Gilderthorp 02:52
So, firstly, I think we'd all love to hear a bit about what you do with In Your Corner. So how did it all begin?
Kathy Adcock 02:59
So um In Your Corner, obviously, well, I was a psychologist first, and I think that's an odd thing to say. So, I didn't grow up like a sporty kid who was in a boxing gym like that, that wasn't the deal. Like, I was born in the 80s girls weren't allowed to box. So I was trotting along as a psychologist and I kind of found boxing within a commercial gym actually. And then through that joined a boxing club. And I just really got on with it. And I suppose I, I got really interested in, in particular the relationship you have with your coach, and how much they kind of look after you in very kind of physical ways like that, you know, they pour water into your mouth, they kind of wrap your hands, there's something really, you feel very well looked after, as they pat you on the back and send you out. But I also was interested in the kinds of, just the kind of my personal mental health benefits from boxing, boxing's been amazing for my well being personally and I kind of thought there's a lot of boxing for change projects around like there's a strong narrative in boxing run like boxing, boxing helps young people's well being that's not very well articulated. And it's not particularly kind of theoretical. And I was kind of thinking, well, how could we build on that and kind of supercharge it, so that I can kind of combine what I know about what works for like adolescence to what I think works about a boxing gym, and kind of create a way of working, where we're using boxing, not just as an engagement hook, but also kind of maximising its therapeutic potential in an evidence informed way.
Rosie Gilderthorp 04:34
Wow. I mean, that sounds like quite a mission. So how did you first kind of go about turning that into a reality?
Kathy Adcock 04:42
Um, so I guess, I suppose you, you've got to find people who are interested in coming along for the ride. So I guess in the first instance, I was thinking, I mean, I met a coach, actually, who'd had quite an interesting journey himself, so he was experienced. And had had quite a complicated time in the way that quite a lot of our young people have. And I thought, oh, you'd be interested, you know, you'd be an interesting coach in this context, because you kind of get it from a lived experience and perspective. So I found a coach, I actually it was my boxing club at the time that I approached and said, look, I've had this idea. Can I can I do it in your club? And they said, Yes. And I just kind of built on, I guess, the people I knew. And you know, like existing relationships really. So who do I think a safe pairs of hands and boxing? Who do I think a safe pair of hands in, in psychology? And how can they help this endeavour? And, um, I guess I ran a...
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