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A WEAVE Conversation | Relationships Before Results: Rajiv Mehta on Camaraderie and Self-Knowledge07 Apr 202601:22:00

What if the reason we can't fix our politics is that we've skipped the part where we actually get to know each other?

Rajiv Mehta has spent the better part of four decades asking questions that most people don't think to ask. At NASA, it was about the complexity lurking beneath simplified models of the atmosphere. At Apple, it was why people don't take more pictures. At Zume Life, it was why even doctors can't stick to their own health regimens. And for the past twenty-plus years, the question has been deeper still: how do we actually learn to know ourselves and each other well enough to build something lasting together?

Rajiv is the founder of Mapping Ourselves, which helps organizational leaders build the cultures they seek by exploring the human roots of high performance. He's also a member of WEAVE, the nationwide initiative that supports grassroots leaders working to repair our frayed social fabric. His book Camaraderie is coming out this summer. The conversation moves from Mets fandom to Mars to medicine to the philosophy of Peter Singer to Genghis Khan, and somehow it all connects. That's the kind of episode this is.

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Key Takeaways

Relationships before results. One of Raj's core convictions, borrowed from a friend long engaged in social movements, is that our culture has it exactly backwards. We treat connection as a luxury, something to get to after the real work is done. But without genuine relationship, results rarely last. This isn't soft thinking. It's what SEAL teams already know, and it's what Raj has been trying to bring to the rest of us.

The self is plural. The phrase "quantified self" always had a problem, Raj admits: it pointed inward when the whole point is outward. We are fundamentally social creatures. Studying yourself means studying yourself in community, in relationship, in context. Going off to meditate in a cave has its value, but if you lose sight of yourself-in-the-ecosystem, you've missed the main thing.

Know yourself before you can know others. The doctors who were baffled by patient non-adherence were themselves non-adherent. We can't build real camaraderie with people we don't understand, and we can't understand others if we haven't done the harder work of understanding ourselves. Self-knowledge isn't navel-gazing. It's the prerequisite for everything else.

Community, connection, belonging, and camaraderie are not the same thing. Raj draws careful distinctions. Community is a container. Belonging is an emotional sense of home, with real agency attached. Connection is deeply interpersonal, the discovery of specific things you genuinely like about another person. Camaraderie brings all of this together within a group united by shared purpose. Conflating them leads to surface-level interventions that don't hold.

Complexity isn't a bug. It's the reality we have to learn to live inside. From atmospheric modeling at NASA to human behavior in healthcare, Raj kept running into the same error: people mistake their simplified models for the world itself. When something goes wrong, they blame the workers instead of the design. Real progress requires holding complexity rather than explaining it away.

Start human, then get to the hard stuff. Whether it's cross-partisan dialogue or cross-cultural misunderstanding, Raj's prescription is the same: find the human first. Discover what you share. Build some real connection. Then, and only then, you might be able to have the harder conversation. Walking straight into the room with a contested policy topic and expecting good-faith exchange is, as he puts it, nearly impossible.

About Our Guest

Rajiv Mehta is the founder of Mapping Ourselves, which helps organizational leaders build high-performing cultures by developing the self-knowledge and mutual understanding that genuine camaraderie requires. With an engineering background from Princeton and Stanford, and a career spanning NASA, Apple, and Adobe, he has spent the past two decades guiding corporate executives, military commanders, and community leaders through the practice of personal science. He is a member of WEAVE, the nationwide initiative supporting grassroots leaders working to repair social trust across America. His book Camaraderie is forthcoming this summer.

Links and Resources

Mapping Ourselves - mappingourselves.com

WEAVE: The Social Fabric Project - weavers.org

Camaraderie by Rajiv Mehta (forthcoming, summer 2025)

Connect on Social Media

Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials…

Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible.

Links and additional resources:

Proud members of The Democracy Group

Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

Yes, really.

We Can Survive. Can We Thrive? | Corey Nathan with Andrew Keen on Keen on America03 Apr 202600:38:59

We can survive. But can we thrive? That's a different question entirely.

Corey Nathan joined Andrew Keen on Keen on America to talk about the state of civic discourse in America. Robert Mueller's death and the president's response to it is the jumping-off point, but the conversation goes much deeper: the exhausted majority, the horseshoe of extremism, storytelling as a bridge across difference, and what it takes to stay in hard conversations. This feed drop brings that interview to the TP&R audience.

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Key Takeaways:

Robert Mueller as a mirror. Mueller served under presidents of both parties, earned a Purple Heart, and devoted his education to public service. His death and the president's response to it shows what happens when tribalism does our thinking: one data point erases an entire life.

The exhausted majority is real. The Hidden Tribes study from More in Common found that only 6-8% on either side qualify as genuine extremists. The other 85% are far more nuanced. They want to enjoy the barbecue and Thanksgiving dinner without it turning into a war. The conflict entrepreneurs don't represent most of us.

It's a horseshoe, not a spectrum. The extreme ends have more in common with each other than either would admit. The incentive structure is identical: compete for attention, be the loudest voice in the room.

Stories are the antidote to caricature. When we understand someone's story, we stop reducing them to a single data point. Corey illustrates this with a friend born in Lebanon with family in Iran who voted for Trump. The disagreements are real. But understanding the story behind the view changes everything.

Surviving and thriving are not the same thing. Corey's family spent 800 years in what is now Ukraine. They knew how to survive. But survival isn't the American promise. The experiment is worth protecting and worth talking about.

About Andrew Keen

Andrew Keen is a British-American broadcaster and author, host of Keen on America and How to Fix Democracy. He is known for pressing his guests hard and not letting easy answers stand.

Links and Resources

Connect on Social Media

Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials…

Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible.

Links and additional resources:

Proud members of The Democracy Group

Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

LA Times’ Gustavo Arellano on ICE Raids, Latino Voters, and America’s Breaking Point03 Mar 202601:06:18

What does it look like to spend 25 years covering a story you wish you could stop covering — and still refuse to despair?

Gustavo Arellano is an LA Times columnist, Pulitzer Prize finalist, and the son of two Mexican immigrants. In this conversation he covers the Trump deportation machine, Rancho Libertarianism, why Americans hate Mexicans but love Mexican food, and what it actually looks like to stay in relationship across political difference.

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

Key Takeaways
  • The Deportation Leviathan: This isn’t about policy logic or net fiscal impact. It’s demonization as strategy, funded for decades, borrowed from California’s Prop 187 playbook.
  • Agents of Their Own Lives: Undocumented people are not a pitiful mass. They are individuals who make this country better. Framing them as victims does them a disservice.
  • Rancho Libertarianism: The political identity Gustavo coined for Mexican hill-country values: bootstrap mentality, community pride, distrust of government, refusal to be used by either party. It explains a lot about 2024.
  • Latinos Are Not a Monolith: Every community on his 3,000-mile pre-election road trip had its own story. None of it reducible to a single bloc.
  • You Eat Their Food, You Start to See Them: Mexican food as cultural bridge. The problem with Chipotle is that it’s a burrito gentrifier, displacing local traditions it doesn’t care about.
  • Stay in the Friendships: A Trump-supporting friend promised to take up guns for Gustavo if ICE came for him. Gustavo told him to start carrying his passport, “because you’re darker than me.” The friend responded with a thumbs up. That, Gustavo says, was a victory.
  • These Are Also the Best of Times: During Operation Wetback in the 1950s, the only people fighting back were communists. Today the resistance is broader than anything this country has seen on this issue.
About Our Guest

Gustavo Arellano is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times and the author of Taco USA: How Mexican Food Conquered America. He was a finalist for the 2025 Pulitzer Prize in commentary and part of the team that won the 2023 Pulitzer Prize in breaking news. The son of two Mexican immigrants, he has covered immigration, Latino politics, and the American Southwest for 25 years.

Links and Resources

Gustavo Arellano

 

“Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)” (referenced at 00:26:00)

Woody Guthrie’s song about the 1948 crash that killed 28 Mexican farmworkers. ICE’s January 2025 post calling the victims “illegal Mexican aliens” is what sent Gustavo to write about it.

Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam (referenced at 00:57:00)

On declining social capital. Gustavo’s prescription: join things, meet people, touch grass.

Born in East LA (1987, referenced at 00:15:00)

Cheech Marin’s satirical classic. Gustavo’s conversation about it with David Chang is what put it on Corey’s radar.

Connect on Social Media

Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials…

Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible.

Links and additional resources:

Proud members of The Democracy Group

Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

Beyond Outrage and Misperceptions: Building the Muscles for Democracy (with More In Common's Kate Carney)06 May 202501:04:54

In this episode, Corey Nathan sits down with Kate Carney, Deputy Director at More in Common. Kate shares her fascinating journey—from working in Congress to boating 6,000 miles around the U.S.—and how those experiences shape her work today. The conversation centers on More in Common’s new report, The Connection Opportunity, and explores how we can foster meaningful relationships across political, racial, religious, and socioeconomic divides.

What's Discussed:

  • Why social connection is critical to healthy democracy.

  • Surprising data on Americans’ openness to diverse perspectives.

  • How psychological factors like intergroup anxiety impact connection.

  • Kate’s transformative journey completing the Great American Loop.

  • Real-world solutions for bridging divides in your own community.

Episode Highlights:

  • 02:00 – Kate’s 6,000-mile boat journey and what it taught her about America.

  • 10:00 – The Connection Opportunity: How More in Common is reframing social cohesion.

  • 21:00 – Why politics remains the most difficult line of difference to cross.

  • 25:00 – The power of community norms and intergroup anxiety.

  • 32:00 – Revisiting the "Hidden Tribes" report and what’s changed since its release.

  • 41:00 – The seven levers of change for increasing social connection.

  • 48:00 – How cities like Kansas City, Houston and Pittsburgh are fostering community dialogue.

  • 54:00 – Personal agency and why democracy starts with you.

Featured Quotes: “We are inherently diverse. To build strong communities, we have to be intentional about connecting across our differences.” — Kate Carney “The more people connect across difference, the more they want to—it’s a cascade.” — Kate Carney “There’s an overwhelming desire to have these conversations. It’s the fortress of assumptions that gets in our way.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media

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Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Trump's Attack on Decency and Your Constitutional Rights: Why It's NOT Normal02 May 202500:40:54

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on where we stand as a country several months into the current administration. With candor and conviction, Corey explores the themes of democracy, decency, and due process. Drawing from scripture, the Constitution, and commentary by thought leaders like David Brooks and Mike Madrid, this episode delivers a compelling, timely snapshot of America’s civic health—and what’s at stake moving forward.

What's Discussed:

  • Why the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments are more important than ever

  • The consequences of immigration policies that bypass due process

  • How the economy (including tariffs and inflation) is impacting voters

  • What swayed key constituencies in the 2024 election

  • What to watch for heading into 2026 and 2028

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Framing the episode: A “temperature check” on America

  • [00:05:00] The First Amendment under threat

  • [00:07:00] Due process and the constitutional rights of all persons

  • [00:14:00] What really moved voters in 2024 (spoiler: price of eggs + immigration)

  • [00:17:00] A powerful quote from David Brooks on civilizational foundations

  • [00:22:00] Legal attacks and a defense of constitutional law

  • [00:29:00] Polling data showing shifts in public opinion

  • [00:34:00] Real-world impact on families, students, and small businesses

Featured Quotes:

  • “Nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”
  • “Don’t talk to me about Donald Trump being a brilliant businessman—he’s a brilliant thief.”
  • “For me, it’s about democracy and decency. Always has been.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

E.J. Dionne: "Come, Let Us Reason Together" | Resisting Extremism and the Path to National Healing29 Apr 202501:19:18

In this episode, host Corey Nathan talks with renowned journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr. E.J. is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a syndicated columnist for The Washington Post, a professor at Georgetown University, and a prolific author. Together, they discuss democracy, faith, political polarization, and the enduring need for real argument and hope in public life.

What We Discuss:

  • How E.J.’s upbringing shaped his approach to political debate and dialogue.

  • Why engaging seriously with opposing ideas is crucial to democracy.

  • The difference between optimism and hope — and why hope is essential.

  • How faith and civil society contribute to repairing societal divisions.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] E.J. shares how his father encouraged open political debate.

  • [00:06:00] Reflections on DEI, the “woke” debates, and critiques of excesses.

  • [00:10:00] The Trump administration’s unintended role in uniting pro-democracy groups.

  • [00:15:00] Anger and economic grievances in Fall River, Massachusetts.

  • [00:24:00] Why hope, not just optimism, is vital for public life.

  • [00:36:00] E.J.’s personal faith journey and the importance of humble belief.

  • [00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis’ legacy and the Catholic Church.

  • [01:05:00] What worries E.J. about democracy today — and what gives him hope.

Featured Quotes: "In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne "Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne "You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne "We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith and Politics after the Religious Right - Princeton University Press

📰 E.J. Dionne's column at The Washington Post – www.washingtonpost.com/people/ej-dionne-jr

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

The Unflinching Eye: McKay Coppins on Journalism, the Threats to Our Freedoms and the Power of Inquiry25 Apr 202501:12:18

🎙️Award-winning journalist and Atlantic staff writer McKay Coppins joins us to explore the delicate intersections of politics, faith, and journalism. From shadowing Donald Trump to chronicling the political journey of Mitt Romney, McKay shares what it takes to pursue truth in turbulent times.

What We Discuss:

  • What it’s like getting rare access to Trump, Romney, and the Murdochs

  • How to navigate political rationalizations without losing your soul

  • McKay’s writing rituals and creative process

  • The powerful role of curiosity in building bridges across divides

  • Why faith and civic life matter more than ever

Episode Highlights:

00:02:00 – McKay’s infamous 2014 Trump profile and its surprising legacy 00:10:00 – How luck and sincere curiosity lead to exclusive access 00:16:00 – Late nights, caps lock, and McKay’s writing habits 00:29:00 – The chilling effect of political intimidation on journalism 00:41:00 – Why many GOP leaders stay silent—and what Romney heard behind the scenes 00:50:00 – Do you lose your soul in politics? A deep dive 00:57:00 – The spiritual vacuum in modern America and how faith might fill it 01:02:00 – Why curiosity is the cure for today’s civic divide

Featured Quotes:

"He seemed like he desperately wanted affirmation all the time... and it was like empty calories."  "To be somebody who has faith is to constantly have it tested and to have it evolve." "We need leaders thinking more about their obituaries than the next news cycle." "Curiosity is an underrated virtue in politics."

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Romney: A Reckoning – Simon and Schuster 📘 The Wilderness – Hachette Book Group 📰 McKay’s articles at The Atlantic – Visit

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

I Was Right About the Law, But My Delivery Was WRONG: How to Discuss Threats to Our Rights Without Being a Jerk22 Apr 202500:26:18

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares a candid reflection about a recent encounter where he was right on the facts and the law—but completely wrong in how he presented them. Yet if we're honest with ourselves about when we make mistakes, it's a good opportunity to learn, reminding us that how we communicate is just as important as what we communicate.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why being right on the law isn’t enough in a conversation

  • How righteous anger can derail productive dialogue

  • Why due process matters for everyone—especially those who aren't guilty of crimes

  • Tools for engaging in hard conversations with empathy and curiosity

  • How the Constitution and Judeo-Christian values intersect in public discourse

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Corey introduces the story and the key lesson he learned

  • [00:05:00] Breakdown of the Alien Enemies Act and a real legal case

  • [00:06:45] A stranger challenges Corey at a restaurant

  • [00:07:30] Corey "goes Jersey" and loses his cool

  • [00:13:00] What due process really protects and why it matters

  • [00:16:00] How Isaac Saul, David Brooks, and Mónica Guzmán inspired a better way to respond

  • [00:18:00] Reading the First and Fifth Amendments to ground the conversation

Featured Quotes:

  • "I was completely right on the facts, but I was completely wrong on the delivery." — Corey Nathan
  • "Due process is there for the innocent just as much as the guilty—even more so for the innocent." — Corey Nathan
  • "Ask at least three questions before making your point." — inspired by Isaac Saul
📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Untangling the Partisan Knot: A Balanced Look at Political News with Isaac Saul of Tangle18 Apr 202501:13:36

In this episode, we sit down with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, a widely respected, nonpartisan political newsletter. Isaac and his team bring a fresh approach to political journalism by curating multiple perspectives—right, left, and independent—on major stories of the day. Corey, a fan and avid reader of Tangle, dives deep into Isaac’s upbringing in Bucks County, PA, how that shaped his civic “multilingualism,” and the genesis of Tangle during a particularly difficult phase of his career. Together, they explore the challenges of journalistic ethics, political polarization, media bias, and the future of trustworthy news.

What We Discuss:

  • Why Bucks County, PA, is so friggin' awesome! And why it plays a crucial role in shaping moderate political thinkers.

  • How Isaac Saul built Tangle from the ground up as a response to media frustration.

  • The journalistic principles and ethical guardrails that guide Isaac’s work.

  • How to discern quality journalism in an era dominated by clickbait and misinformation.

  • The dangers of polarization and what gives Isaac hope about our democratic future.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Isaac Saul shares the mission behind Tangle and what inspired him to create it.

  • [00:05:00] Corey and Isaac explore how growing up in politically diverse Bucks County cultivated empathy and civic fluency.

  • [00:10:00] Isaac discusses his unique way of reaching conspiracy-minded friends—by “using their language” and exposing financial incentives in media.

  • [00:15:00] Isaac describes his journalistic background and the importance of reporting with integrity and skepticism.

  • [00:24:00] Isaac recounts his “f*** this” moment that led to launching Tangle after being rejected from multiple major outlets.

  • [00:34:00] Corey explains his methodical approach to reading Tangle and how it helps refine his own viewpoints.

  • [00:40:00] Behind the scenes: How Isaac and his team choose stories and fairly represent both sides of complex political issues.

  • [00:54:00] Isaac shares his hopes and fears about political division, executive overreach, and the role of media in democracy.

Featured Quotes:

  • "The people who are really politically engaged on the right and the left right now are living in just different realities." – Isaac Saul
  • "I know what I think. It’s the least interesting thing on the planet. I live with this brain all day. I want to hear what others think." – Isaac Saul
  • "You should treat every click like you're handing a news outlet a dollar." – Isaac Saul
  • "Centrism is an ideology in and of itself. I’m not trying to land in the middle—I’m just being honest about my real reactions." – Isaac Saul

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

(ICYMI) Beyond Right and Left: Rabbi Sharon Brous and the Courage to Ask 'What Do You See?' After October 7th15 Apr 202501:08:54

In this deeply moving episode, Corey Nathan welcomes Rabbi Sharon Brous, the senior and founding rabbi of IKAR, a groundbreaking Jewish community based in Los Angeles. Rabbi Brous is also the author of The Amen Effect: Ancient Wisdom to Heal Our Hearts and Mend Our Broken World. Together, they explore ancient traditions, mental health, spiritual leadership, and how to foster deeper, more compassionate human connections even across profound divides.

What We Discuss:

  • The ancient ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted and its modern relevance.

  • The profound impact of being seen and embraced in moments of vulnerability.

  • How leaders carry and process communal pain—and why that matters.

  • Practical wisdom on staying curious and compassionate across ideological divides.

  • The role of community design in spiritual experiences.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Rabbi Brous explains the Mishnah Middot and the ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted.

  • [00:08:00] Corey and Rabbi Brous discuss the concept of sin as a burden like mental illness.

  • [00:15:00] The transformative power of being truly seen and how crying makes space for new realities.

  • [00:20:00] Rabbi Brous reflects on the toll leadership can take and how caregivers must process pain.

  • [00:24:00] The design of IKAR’s prayer space and how it fosters visibility and community.

  • [00:34:00] Navigating discomfort with changes in religious leadership and traditions.

  • [00:42:00] How to stay at the table with those who hurt or anger us—and why it’s critical.

  • [00:53:00] A powerful story about transformation through simple presence and blessing.

Featured Quotes:

  • "Sometimes you don’t even want to get out of bed. Yet, sacred tradition compels us to show our brokenness—and trust that we will be held with love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

  • "If you don’t metabolize pain, it will metastasize inside of you." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

  • "We can create new neural and spiritual pathways—by allowing ourselves to be seen and to receive love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

  • "It takes courage to be curious about someone who hurt you, but that’s the only way to heal." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

From Bible School to 'Trump Grumpies': Gen Z Asks, What Would Jesus Really Do? with Emerson Riley Nathan11 Apr 202501:19:36

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with a very special guest — his own son, Emerson Riley Nathan. Together, they dive into Gen Z’s unique perspective on faith, politics, and culture. As a young adult navigating the complexities of belief, identity, and creativity, Emerson offers refreshing candor about his spiritual journey, social views, and passion for music. This conversation is an inspiring look at how different generations can engage in meaningful, respectful dialogue.

What You Will Learn:

  • Insights into Gen Z's evolving relationship with faith and spirituality
  • How Emerson balances skepticism and open-mindedness about religion
  • The impact of politics and social media on young people's worldview
  • How music and community-building are vital for mental health and connection
  • The dynamic of a father and son having open, vulnerable discussions about big life questions

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] – Emerson's "graveyard shift" lifestyle and its impact on his creativity
  • [00:03:00] – Emerson shares his journey growing up between Christianity and Judaism
  • [00:07:00] – How the 2012 election and political polarization shaped Emerson’s views
  • [00:11:00] – Moving away from organized religion and questioning traditional beliefs
  • [00:20:00] – Emerson's current agnostic beliefs and embracing uncertainty about the afterlife
  • [00:27:00] – The healing power of kindness and defining what it means to be good
  • [00:32:00] – Emerson’s passion for dubstep, rave culture, and community through music
  • [00:45:00] – Corey and Emerson discuss responsible adulthood, fatherhood, and finding purpose
  • [00:59:00] – How politics today have created both division and a sense of helplessness

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Will Saletan: Navigating Toxic Partisanship and Challenging Extremist Absurdity08 Apr 202501:28:38

In this episode, we welcome back political journalist and author Will Saletan. Will, formerly of Slate and now a writer for The Bulwark, is known for his sharp insights on American democracy, political corruption, and authoritarianism. Will reflects on the pivotal events leading up to and following the 2024 election, including Joe Biden’s withdrawal, Kamala Harris’s campaign, and Donald Trump's return to power. This thought-provoking conversation dives into the state of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, and how ordinary Americans are responding.

What You Will Learn

  • How Will Saletan processed the chaotic political landscape leading up to the 2024 election.

  • Why many Americans seem indifferent to threats against constitutional rights.

  • Will’s analysis of Trump’s authoritarian tendencies and the implications for democracy.

  • The emerging role of European allies as America’s commitment to NATO and democracy weakens.

  • Practical strategies for handling misinformation and toxic discourse on social media.

Episode Highlights

  • [00:01:00] Introduction to Will Saletan and a reflection on major events since their last conversation.

  • [00:03:00] Will discusses his surprise at Biden’s physical and verbal deterioration during the 2024 campaign.

  • [00:07:00] The challenges Kamala Harris faced stepping into the race and why the "change election" dynamic mattered.

  • [00:11:00] Corey and Will examine why many Americans rationalized or minimized January 6th.

  • [00:23:00] Will explains how fear and profit motive lead companies and law firms to capitulate to authoritarian pressures.

  • [00:29:00] How self-censorship and fear of government retribution are stifling free speech.

  • [00:54:00] Will shares the "general idea" he’s concluded about the Trump administration: incompetence and stupidity at historic levels.

  • [01:03:00] Hope on the horizon: how European nations are stepping up to defend democratic values.

  • [01:06:00] Final reflections on the resilience of democracy beyond America’s current political struggles.

Featured Quotes

  • Will Saletan: "What clicks for me is very simple: they’re idiots. They're really stupid, and they think they're smart."

  • Will Saletan: "The danger isn’t just the lies themselves—it's the machinery of intimidation that stops people from even trying to tell the truth."

  • Corey Nathan: "It's encouraging when you realize people are so much more than the hat they might wear."

  • Will Saletan: "Even though America has faltered, there’s still goodness in the world—and it’s stepping up."

Resources Mentioned

(Note: If Will referenced any other external resources or books you want linked specifically, just let me know!)

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Dumb Ideas Welcome? Navigating Free Speech and Falsehoods in a Divided Democracy05 Apr 202500:57:18

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan takes a deep dive into one of the foundational guidelines we've used in curating conversations both in person and online: handling misinformation. Corey reflects on his experiences moderating political and religious discussions, the evolution of social media moderation, and the fine balance between protecting free speech and maintaining civil discourse. We invite listeners into an honest exploration of free expression, civic engagement, and fostering better conversations, even with those we deeply disagree with.

What We Discuss:

  • Why it could be worth rethinking the rule to report and remove proven falsehoods from these forums.

  • The importance of understanding the First Amendment and time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech.

  • How maintaining civil discourse matters more than ever, even with the spread of misinformation.

  • Reflections on the lessons learned from controversial public conversations, like Gavin Newsom’s podcast guests and protests on college campuses.

  • How personal experiences during the pandemic and political unrest shaped Corey's approach to moderating tough conversations.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] Corey’s initial set of rules for moderating conversations on social media.

  • [00:08:00] Why platforms like Meta and Twitter are no longer actively flagging misinformation.

  • [00:10:00] Revisiting the meaning of the First Amendment and its application to private forums.

  • [00:18:00] Discussing time, place, and manner restrictions in the context of campus protests and public demonstrations.

  • [00:23:00] Reflecting on the events of January 6th and the perpetuation of election fraud narratives.

  • [00:36:00] Learning from Gavin Newsom’s engagement with controversial figures like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk.

  • [00:43:00] Why civil engagement—even with those we strongly disagree with—might be more powerful than silencing falsehoods.

  • [00:52:00] Corey’s updated stance: allowing proven falsehoods to remain visible for educational and relational purposes.

Featured Quotes:

"Congress shall make no law... but that doesn’t mean I, a private individual, can’t curate conversations in my own forums."

"When we disagree is when it’s most important to protect free speech." 

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Let the worst ideas stand up to scrutiny." 

"Staying in relationship with those we disagree with gives us a better chance to understand and grow." 

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

His Name Above Every Name: Dehumanization, Dignity, and the Practice of Seeing27 Feb 202600:20:18

What does it cost a person to go unseen? And what does it ask of us to truly see one another?

In this solo reflection, Corey Nathan explores the moral weight of being seen and the deliberate cruelty of being made invisible. From Marilynne Robinson's Lila to Muhammad Ali's thundering "What's my name?" to Mother Teresa's gaze upon the discarded, this episode traces a thread that runs through literature, history, jazz, and the headlines of this particular moment.

When Attorney General Pam Bondi turned her back on Jeffrey Epstein's survivors, when federal agents hide behind masks while the faces of those they detain are photographed and published, when a president plasters his name above John F. Kennedy's, these are not isolated incidents. They are a pattern. And naming that pattern is where the work begins.

What would it mean to choose differently? To look at one another the way John Ames looked at Lila? To call each other by our own names?

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

What This Episode Explores

The Need to Be Seen

To be seen — truly seen, not used or categorized or erased — is both what we most need and what can make us most exposed. Marilynne Robinson's Lila captures this with devastating precision: the way genuine recognition can feel terrifying to someone who has only ever been seen as a body to be used.

When Power Weaponizes Invisibility

Pam Bondi sat before Congress with her back to Jeffrey Epstein's survivors. Federal agents conceal their identities behind masks while those they detain are pictured and named. Those killed in lethal operations are reduced to labels. The pattern Colonel David Lapan identified is not accidental: those with power choose who remains invisible and who is exposed.

What's My Name

Muhammad Ali didn't just fight Ernie Terrell in 1967. He demanded to be known on his own terms, not by a name others had assigned him. The jazz musicians of the 1940s did the same thing, quietly and subversively, by calling each other "man" in a culture that called Black men "boy." To name someone is to acknowledge their humanity.

The Counterexamples

From Mother Teresa to David Brooks to Vaclav Havel, this episode draws on voices who understood what it means to see and be seen, as well as why that capacity is never merely symbolic. It is the foundation of moral culture.

The Challenge to the Church

As a Christian, Corey wrestles honestly with a hard number: more than two-thirds of white evangelicals continue to support an administration whose record on human dignity, as described in this episode, is difficult to square with the gospel.

What We Can Choose

None of us can single-handedly reshape national politics. But we can choose how we see each other. We can turn around and see those this administration will not.

Why This Matters Now

The daily acts of seeing, naming, and beholding are not symbolic gestures. They are the building blocks of moral culture. And when those in authority systematically exploit the need to be seen or weaponize anonymity to strip others of their humanity, the response can't only be political. It has to be personal.

As Jesse Jackson shared with a group of children on Sesame Street: I am... somebody.

Connect on Social Media

Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials...

Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible.

Links and additional resources:

Proud members of The Democracy Group

Final Thought

The world will not always look at you the way you deserve to be seen.

But you can choose to look that way at others.

Now go talk some politics and religion. And step forward. With gentleness and respect.

(Best of) David Brooks, HOW TO KNOW A PERSON: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen03 Apr 202501:06:48

This conversation with David Brooks was a real highlight. We originally recorded our talk just after his most recent book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON was released. Enjoy.

 

You might recognize David Brooks from his columns in The New York Times or his essays in The Atlantic. Perhaps you’ve seen him on PBS NewsHour or Meet the Press. He’s also a prolific author. In fact, his 2019 book The Second Mountain was a major inspiration for this program. We discuss that as well as David’s new book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen (Penguin Random House).

 

Our conversation with "Brooksie" went in a number of surprising directions:

  • Sociological observations (and confessions) of New York Mets fans;
  • The way lifelong friends enrich our lives;
  • Depression - fair warning that this section gets pretty gritty and candid;
  • How, as observant Jews, we both discovered Christianity later in life;
  • As Jews who are Christian, whether we have any ambivalence;
  • American Evangelicalism - talk about ambivalence!
  • David's writing process and the motivation of deadlines;
  • and much, much more!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

David's new book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON: 

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks

Mónica Guzmán: Breaking the Cycle of Outrage Through Fearlessly Curious Conversations31 Mar 202501:03:18

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes back Monica Guzmán, Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels, host of A Braver Way podcast, CEO of Reclaim Curiosity, and author of I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times. Monica’s mission is to help bridge America’s political divides through fearless curiosity. With deep reflections on the 2024 election, evolving friendships across ideological lines, and her renewed commitment to bridge building, Monica shares how we can stay grounded and connected—especially when it feels impossible.

What We Discuss:
  • How Moni processes political polarization and stays grounded—even when the world feels divided
  • Practical strategies for engaging with people across ideological lines without compromising your values
  • Why shared outrage across political lines can be a gateway to unity
  • The role of empathy, humility, and curiosity in depolarizing conversations
  • How journalists and moderators can better navigate falsehoods without censoring legitimate concerns
Episode Highlights:
  • [00:03:00] – Mónica explains how her emotional radar helps her know when to seek out conversations with people who see politics differently.
  • [00:08:00] – Unexpected agreement: conservatives and liberals are both frustrated with Congressional dysfunction and executive overreach.
  • [00:14:00] – Moni shares how talking with people who had different experiences during COVID reshaped her understanding and empathy.
  • [00:21:00] – Corey and Mónica discuss boundaries in bridge building—when is it time to walk away from a relationship?
  • [00:29:00] – Moderating contentious conversations: “police the structure, not the content.”
  • [00:36:00] – The relationship between activism and dialogue—and why one without the other can be reckless or ineffective.
  • [00:46:00] – Tips for recognizing quality journalism and avoiding emotionally manipulative content.
  • [00:56:00] – Mónica’s closing advice: engagement is not endorsement. Curiosity and conversation don’t mean you’re compromising your values.
Featured Quotes: “I’ve been persuaded over and over again that positions against mine are not ludicrous.” – Mónica Guzmán “Engagement is not endorsement. Having a conversation doesn’t mean you’re capitulating.” – Mónica Guzmán “Find your edge—and push it. That’s all you need to do to build a bridge.” – Mónica Guzmán “I don't want a decision or a position to get in the way of our relationship. I want to understand it better.” – Corey Nathan Resources Mentioned: 📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

ICYMI: 7 Tools for Engaging With "Them"30 Mar 202500:43:54

Can we bridge the partisan divide and have constructive dialogue about politics and religion with "them" - people who have different beliefs about democracy, politics and religion? Are we able to simply have civil, civic conversations? 

(We're grateful to have a number of new listeners. So we thought it'd be good to revisit this episode that was first aired just after the inauguration.)

In this edition, host Corey Nathan explores how we can have meaningful, respectful, and productive conversations with those who think differently from us—politically, religiously, and ideologically. After four years of hosting the show and speaking with a wide array of guests, Corey shares his own insights, offering seven practical tools (plus a bonus tip) for engaging with “one of them” in a way that fosters connection rather than division.

What Is Discussed
  • How to give yourself and others grace in difficult conversations
  • The importance of setting proper expectations when discussing sensitive topics
  • Why asking the right questions is more powerful than having the perfect comeback
  • How storytelling can humanize those with whom we disagree
  • The value of being open to the phrase "I never thought of it that way"
  • How to recognize when it’s time to step away from a conversation or to love someone "from a safe distance"
  • Resources and organizations that can help you navigate difficult discussions
Episode Highlights

⏳ [00:02:00] – Reviews from listeners: the good, the bad, and the constructive ⏳ [00:05:00] – The purpose of this episode: sharing tools for engaging with "one of them" ⏳ [00:06:00] – Tool #1: Grace – Accepting that we will all make mistakes in these conversations ⏳ [00:09:00] – Tool #2: Proper Expectations – Why we shouldn't expect to change someone's mind 180 degrees ⏳ [00:12:00] – Tool #3: Asking Questions – Learning from Jesus' approach of responding with questions ⏳ [00:20:00] – Tool #4: Storytelling – The power of narrative in understanding each other as human beings ⏳ [00:25:00] – Tool #5: Being Open to "I Never Thought of It That Way" Moments ⏳ [00:32:00] – Tool #6: Recognizing Your Line – Knowing when to step away from an unhealthy dynamic ⏳ [00:35:00] – Tool #7: Equipping Yourself – Books, organizations, and resources for learning how to engage better ⏳ [00:38:00] – Bonus Tip: Taking Care of Yourself – Mental, emotional, and physical well-being in this work

Featured Quotes

📢 “Give yourself grace. You’re not going to get it right every time.” 📢 “If we ask the right question, it allows that person, instead of being in a posture of combat, to tell their story.”  📢 “Trying to inform, like trying to win, can get in the way of trying to listen.” – Monica Guzmán (as quoted in the episode) 📢 “People are mysteries, not puzzles.” – Monica Guzmán

Resources Mentioned

📖 Books:

🌍 Organizations:

🎥 Watch & Support the Podcast:

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors

🔹 Now go talk some politics and religion—but with gentleness and respect. 💡

#Politics #Religion #NeverTrump #Democracy #Faith #Justice #Civility #Polarization

A Frank Discussion on American Politics with an "Untethered Expat" Originally from Bucks County PA28 Mar 202501:28:36

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with his longtime friend Gary Keifer, an expat currently living in Peru. Gary brings a refreshingly honest and “untethered” perspective to U.S. politics, unfiltered by party loyalty or institutional affiliation. With a background in comedy, improv, and theater, Gary offers thoughtful insights rooted in personal experience and global observations. The conversation spans topics from immigration and working-class politics to why Gary abstained from discussing American politics for years—until now. Together, Corey and Gary exemplify what it means to engage in civil discourse across ideological lines.

What We Discuss:
  • Why Gary calls himself an "untethered expat" and what that means for his political views.
  • How the Clinton-era Democratic strategy toward the working class contributed to the rise of Trump.
  • Why immigration is the central issue Gary believes needs urgent resolution—and how both parties have failed on it.
  • The limitations of elite political commentary and the value of everyday perspectives.
  • Why Trump’s populism appeals to working-class voters despite his billionaire status.
  • The potential dangers of overreaching political mandates and ignoring opposing voices.
Episode Highlights:
  • [00:02:00] – Corey introduces Gary, a longtime friend with a unique expat perspective on U.S. politics.
  • [00:04:30] – Gary explains his belief in choosing “common people” over public figures for meaningful conversations.
  • [00:08:00] – Why Gary broke his two-year vow of not discussing U.S. politics.
  • [00:10:30] – How Bill Clinton’s shift away from labor shaped modern political realignment.
  • [00:16:00] – A comedic (and thought-provoking) take on Trump’s origin story and Steve Bannon’s influence.
  • [00:30:00] – Gary criticizes both parties for exploiting immigration and creating a caste system.
  • [00:34:00] – Corey and Gary analyze Biden’s early decisions and whether reversing Trump-era immigration policies was a political mistake.
  • [00:45:00] – The bipartisan immigration deal Trump blocked—and what it reveals about political strategy.
  • [01:00:00] – Gary pleads: “Just give Trump the win on immigration so we can move on.”
Featured Quotes: “Fascism doesn't just appear out of nowhere. It fills a void left by something else.” – Gary Keifer “You can’t skip Chapter One of fascism—how we got here matters.” – Gary Keifer “Compromise is the substrate of democracy.” – Corey Nathan “At the end of the day, we're just regular guys trying to have conversations most people are avoiding.” – Corey Nathan 📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Speaking Truth to Power (and to the Pews): Peter Wehner on the Evangelical Vote and America's Future24 Mar 202500:55:54

In this conversation, host Corey Nathan welcomes back Peter Wehner, contributing writer at The Atlantic and The New York Times, senior fellow at the Trinity Forum, and author of multiple books including The Death of Politics and City of Man. A former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Pete brings a unique perspective shaped by his deep political experience, Christian faith, and unwavering moral compass. Together, Corey and Pete engage in a wide-ranging conversation on the 2024 election, the moral health of our nation, the role of the church, and the constitutional implications of a second Trump presidency.

What We Discuss:

  • How Pete Wehner processed the pivotal moments of the 2024 election, including Biden’s withdrawal and Kamala Harris’s campaign
  • Why Donald Trump’s reelection reveals unsettling truths about American society and the church
  • How constitutional crises might unfold under Trump’s second term
  • Why thinkers like Vaclav Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville are essential guides in this political moment
  • How to have more effective and empathetic conversations across political and religious divides

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] – Introduction to Pete Wehner’s background and career
  • [00:02:00] – Pete reflects on Biden’s debate performance and why he felt Biden should have withdrawn sooner
  • [00:05:00] – Analysis of Kamala Harris’s campaign, debate performance, and what ultimately cost her the election
  • [00:09:00] – The moral reckoning: what Trump’s reelection says about American voters and the church
  • [00:14:00] – Pete dissects why evangelicals have remained loyal to Trump and how rationalizations took hold
  • [00:27:00] – A 30-page email exchange: Pete’s attempt to reason with a high-profile Trump supporter and what it revealed
  • [00:34:00] – Trump’s “appetite for revenge”: Pete outlines troubling actions already taken in just 60 days of Trump’s second term
  • [00:41:00] – Defining a constitutional crisis and what happens when a president defies court rulings
  • [00:46:00] – Finding hope and moral clarity through leaders like Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville
  • [00:50:00] – The TP&R question: Pete's insights on how to build better conversations across our differences

Featured Quotes:

“Donald Trump is president because of the white evangelical vote. He touched something deep in the hearts of many Christians—and that should trouble us.” – Peter Wehner

“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well; it’s the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.” – Vaclav Havel (quoted by Pete)

“We're moving toward a constitutional crisis... If Trump defies a court order, we may find out how many divisions Chief Justice John Roberts really has.” – Peter Wehner

“We have to prioritize human relationships. The ripple effects for the country can be healthy.” – Peter Wehner

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Beyond Arguments: Setting Boundaries and Clearing the Brush for Civil Political and Religious Conversations21 Mar 202500:38:26

In this episode, we explore some essential tools for navigating difficult conversations in today’s polarized world. After all, we are part of The Democracy Group! And our goal with TDG and this program is to foster respectful, insightful discussions on politics, religion, and other sensitive topics—without resorting to hostility.

In this solo episode, Corey shares practical strategies for setting boundaries, "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions), and focusing on meaningful conversations rather than debates.

📌 What We Discuss:

✅ Why having clear boundaries is crucial for productive dialogue ✅ How to recognize and avoid being drawn into unproductive interrogations ✅ The importance of "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions) and engaging in genuine conversations ✅ Why listening and storytelling are more powerful than debating facts ✅ How building relationships—not just “winning” arguments—creates lasting change

⏳ Episode Highlights:

🕒 [00:00:00] – Welcome & Calls to Action: Corey shares updates on YouTube, podcast subscriptions, and Patreon. 🕒 [00:06:00] – The Big Question: How do we engage in tough conversations without falling into arguments? 🕒 [00:07:00] – Setting Boundaries: Recognizing when a conversation is an interrogation vs. a genuine exchange. 🕒 [00:10:00] – Admitting Limitations: The power of saying, "I’m not an expert." 🕒 [00:14:00] – No Need to Defend What You Don’t Believe: Why you don’t have to argue every point. 🕒 [00:21:00] – Clearing the Brush: Breaking down stereotypes and assumptions before real discussions can begin. 🕒 [00:26:00] – Seeking Conversations, Not Contests: The difference between dialogue and debate. 🕒 [00:32:00] – The Daryl Davis Approach: How listening has led KKK members to renounce their beliefs. 🕒 [00:35:00] – Final Thoughts: Tools for better discussions and how to support the podcast.

💬 Featured Quotes:

🗣️ “There is no need to submit to an interrogation. If you want to have a conversation, let’s have a conversation.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “I don’t have to defend a position that I don’t hold.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “The road to solving a lot of what ails us is not in winning debates—it’s in having healthier conversations.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “Conversations lead to relationships, and relationships lead to epiphanies.” – Corey Nathan

📚 Resources Mentioned:

🔗 Daryl Davis – Watch his TED Talk 🔗 Braver Angels – Building Bridges Across Political Divides

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors

🔥 Final Thought: Go out and have better conversations. Set boundaries, clear the brush, and seek dialogue—not debates. See you next time on Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other! 🎙️

Charlie Sykes - From Reagan Republicans to RFK Jr.: How the Right Lost Its Mind (Again)17 Mar 202501:12:26

In this episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with Charlie Sykes, a prominent conservative commentator, former talk radio host, and founder of The Bulwark, who's currently writing and podcasting on his excellent Substack To the Contrary. Known for his sharp political insights and willingness to challenge the current trajectory of the Republican Party, Charlie discusses the erosion of democratic norms, the transformation of conservatism, and what the future holds for both parties.

📌 What We Discuss
  • How the Republican Party shifted from traditional conservatism to a Trump-dominated movement.
  • Why democracy faces real threats in the U.S. and globally.
  • The importance of character in political leadership and why many conservatives abandoned this principle.
  • Whether a pro-democracy coalition can hold back extremism in both parties.
  • Charlie's thoughts on how we can have better political conversations without dehumanizing each other.
⏳ Episode Highlights

🔹 [00:01:00] Charlie’s Journey: From influential conservative talk radio host to political outcast in the Trump era. 🔹 [00:05:00] The Evolution of Trumpism: Why Trump 2.0 is even more dangerous than his first presidency. 🔹 [00:12:00] Engaging With Trump Supporters: Is it possible to change minds, or should we focus on mobilizing pro-democracy voters? 🔹 [00:22:00] The Republican Party’s Transformation: How the far-right fringe became the mainstream. 🔹 [00:35:00] Can Democrats Avoid the Same Mistakes? Learning from the GOP's takeover by extremists. 🔹 [00:47:00] America’s Role in the World: Why the U.S. is no longer seen as the leader of the free world. 🔹 [01:02:00] Building Bridges Across Differences: The importance of assuming goodwill and finding shared values.

💬 Featured Quotes

"I’d rather be right than Marco Rubio right now." – Charlie Sykes "The Republican Party had multiple off-ramps to reject Trumpism, and they took none of them." – Charlie Sykes "We are living through history, and we don’t have the luxury of indifference." – Charlie Sykes "The challenge isn’t just about talking politics—it’s about figuring out how to get through this without killing each other." – Corey Nathan

📚 Resources Mentioned 📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Grave Concerns and Glimmers of Hope: Navigating the State of US Politics14 Mar 202500:28:07

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares his candid thoughts on hope, concerns about the state of democracy, and the importance of engaging in meaningful conversations. Inspired by recent discussions with David French and Charlie Sykes, Corey explores whether he remains hopeful about the future—both at the national level and in his local community.

What You Will Learn
  • The state of American democracy and the balance of power
  • How the First Amendment is being threatened
  • Why the judicial branch has been a critical check on executive overreach
  • The role of civil discourse in bridging ideological divides
  • How personal relationships offer reasons for hope
Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction: Exploring the question of hope in today’s political climate [00:01:30] – Why Corey is concerned about the balance of power in government [00:05:00] – The judicial branch as a key safeguard against executive overreach [00:07:30] – Threats to First Amendment rights, including freedom of speech and the press [00:12:00] – The rise of online hostility and how it impacts public discourse [00:18:00] – Finding hope through local engagement and personal relationships [00:22:00] – The power of human connection in bridging political divides

Featured Quotes

"I have concerns about the balance of power and our First Amendment rights—but that doesn't mean I’m without hope." 

"When we engage with each other at the local level, it becomes about relationships instead of transactions." 

"If we really want to change things, we have to start by recognizing each other's humanity." 

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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David French | Friends or Enemies? Overcoming Divides with Justice, Kindness, and Humility in a Polarized America09 Mar 202501:15:36

In this episode, we welcome back David French, columnist for The New York Times, former constitutional attorney, and author of Divided We Fall. We discuss the current state of American democracy, the challenges of political division, and how we can engage in civil discourse despite deep ideological differences. David also shares a personal update on his family and reflects on the profound trials and growth that come with adversity.

📌 What We Discuss:

✔️ How David and his family navigated the challenges of a serious health crisis. ✔️ The rise of political polarization and the factors driving it. ✔️ Why distinguishing between “unwise, unethical, and unlawful” is crucial in analyzing political actions. ✔️ How consuming different perspectives (even opposing ones) helps in understanding political dynamics. ✔️ The role of Christian values in politics and how they are being redefined.

⏳ Episode Highlights

📍 [00:01:00] – David French’s background and his journey from litigation to journalism. 📍 [00:02:30] – Personal update: David shares his wife Nancy’s battle with cancer and their journey as a family. 📍 [00:06:00] – How to navigate personal trials while maintaining faith and resilience. 📍 [00:10:00] – The danger of political paranoia and the pitfalls of extreme polarization. 📍 [00:18:00] – The "friend-enemy" paradigm in American politics and its influence in Christian fundamentalism. 📍 [00:24:00] – Revisiting Divided We Fall: How America’s divisions have devolved since 2020. 📍 [00:40:00] – The categories and differences of unwise, unethical, and unlawful political actions. 📍 [00:55:00] – The balance between justice, kindness, and humility in political engagement. 📍 [01:00:00] – The After Party initiative: A Christian approach to politics focused on values rather than policy.

💬 Featured Quotes

🔹 "You don't know who you truly are until your values are tested." – David French 🔹 "If we focus on the relational, we can have better conversations even across deep differences." – Corey Nathan 🔹 "Justice, kindness, and humility—if you're missing one, you're doing it wrong." – David French 🔹 "The United States has a history of shifting without repenting. We just move on." – David French

📚 Resources Mentioned 📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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David French: 🔗 Twitter | BlueSky | New York Times

 

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How to Discuss Ukraine: First Principles, Facts, and Formulating Reasoned Positions08 Mar 202500:33:54

In this episode we dive into the complex issue of Ukraine, America's involvement, and the broader implications for democracy and global alliances. This episode is an exploration of how we can develop reasoned positions on global conflicts, engage in informed discussions, and recognize the limitations of our own expertise.

What We Discuss
  • How to approach discussions about Ukraine with a reasoned, principled perspective.
  • The importance of distinguishing between facts and opinions in political discourse.
  • How to recognize and rely on credible experts rather than self-appointed commentators.
  • Strategies for engaging in meaningful conversations with those who hold different views.
  • Why shared values and historical context matter in forming ethical positions.
Episode Highlights

[00:01:00] – Corey introduces the topic, emphasizing the importance of forming reasoned opinions based on principles rather than political affiliations.

[00:04:00] – The rise of divisive, “owning the libs” mentalities in political discourse and the shift away from virtues like decency and integrity.

[00:06:00] – Discussion of a powerful article by Dr. Russell Moore on the moral costs of ignoring Ukraine’s plight and the dangers of moral relativism in international affairs.

[00:09:00] – The importance of verifying facts through reputable sources like the Council on Foreign Relations, rather than relying on partisan opinionators.

[00:13:00] – Why experts like Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Anne Applebaum and military expert Alexander Vindman are critical voices in understanding the Ukraine conflict.

[00:18:00] – The dangers of allowing misinformation to shape public opinion and the tactics used in political debates to shift blame and avoid accountability.

[00:24:00] – Strategies for having better conversations, including finding shared values, hunting for points of agreement, and engaging with intellectual humility.

[00:28:00] – A reflection on balancing justice, kindness, and humility in both personal interactions and global politics, inspired by Micah 6:8.

Featured Quotes

🗣 “We can formulate reasoned positions on complicated issues, including Ukraine, by starting with principles rather than political affiliations.” 

🗣 “Opinion is not fact. There’s a difference between listening to a trusted expert and being swayed by a partisan commentator.” 

🗣 “What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God...” – Micah 6:8

Resources Mentioned 📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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The Art of Neighboring: Pastor Amy Schenkel on Building Community, One Picnic Table at a Time (A WEAVE: The Social Fabric Project Story)24 Feb 202600:52:18

How do we rebuild the social fabric of our neighborhoods and congregations in an age of disconnection and division?

In this episode, Pastor Amy Schenkel joins Corey to talk about what it means to be a "weaver" in your own community. From a front-yard picnic table that became a neighborhood gathering place to decades of church planting in downtown Grand Rapids, Amy brings a grounded, practical theology of neighboring that cuts across political and religious lines. Along the way, she and Corey explore the difference between curiosity and contentiousness, how congregations survive painful splits, and why "mission" might be the one thing that unites people who agree on very little else.

Amy is a pastor and ministries coordinator at Neland Avenue Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and a regional mission leader who has also served as North American and U.S. Director of Resonate Global Mission. She's a trained missiologist, a church planting veteran, and a certified speaker with the Weave Speakers Bureau.

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Key Takeaways

  • Neighboring as a Practice: Neighboring doesn't happen by accident. It takes intentionality, imagination, and a willingness to show up consistently for the people around you.
  • The Front-Yard Principle: A picnic table in the front yard rather than the backyard signals openness. Shared space that's accessible but not invasive invites connection without pressure.
  • Missional Imagination: There's no curriculum for how your church or community should engage its neighborhood. It requires listening, creativity, and the willingness to try things and sometimes fail.
  • Asset-Based Community Development (ABCD): Instead of cataloguing what's broken in a neighborhood, start by identifying what's already there: the gifts, talents, and resources people bring. Let the community lead its own renewal.
  • Mission as Common Ground: Churches and communities can disagree deeply about politics and theology while still uniting around a shared calling to love their neighbors. Mission can hold together what ideology pulls apart.
  • Curiosity Over Contentiousness: Everyone is an expert in something you know nothing about. Approaching others with genuine curiosity rather than a prepared rebuttal changes the entire nature of a conversation.
  • The Non-Anxious Presence: When a community faces painful decisions, the most valuable thing a leader can bring is a calm, non-anxious presence. It lowers the temperature and makes honest dialogue possible.
  • Broken Open: Weave identifies people who have been "broken open" by loss or hardship as some of the most effective community weavers. Suffering, when it doesn't harden us, can deepen our compassion for those on the margins.
  • Dispositional Preparation: The preparation that matters most before a hard conversation isn't rehearsing your rebuttals. It's working on your own disposition, arriving curious, open, and genuinely willing to hear.
  • The Image of God Principle: Even when a relationship feels impossibly strained, there's a way through. Lisa Sharon Harper's prayer, "The image of God in me loves the image of God in you," offers a floor to stand on when everything else feels unstable.

About Our Guest

Pastor Amy Schenkel is a pastor and ministries coordinator at Neland Avenue Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where she works to help one congregation connect more deeply with its neighborhood. A graduate of Calvin University and Calvin Theological Seminary, Amy was among the first women ordained in her classis within her denomination.

Amy served for years with Resonate Global Mission, including as U.S. and North American Director, overseeing church planting and local mission engagement across the continent. Her work has always centered on a question at the heart of reformed missiology: how do ordinary people, in ordinary vocations, become agents of renewal in their communities?

She and her husband Henry church-planted together in downtown Grand Rapids starting around 2000, learning early that a faith community rooted in a neighborhood has to think beyond Sunday mornings. Today she brings that same missional imagination to her work with individual congregations and with Weave: The Social Fabric Project, where she is a certified speaker available to address both secular and faith-based audiences.

Links and Resources

Weave: The Social Fabric Project

The Colossian Forum (recommended by Amy for congregations navigating conflict)

Lisa Sharon Harper (referenced in conversation)

Amy Schenkel

Connect on Social Media

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Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Gratitude as well to Village Square for coming alongside us in this work and helping foster better civic dialogue.

Links and additional resources:

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Rep. Ritchie Torres on Israel, Trump, and Political Extremism: A Congressman's Fight for Moral Clarity03 Mar 202500:31:18

In this episode we sit down with Congressman Ritchie Torres, a fighter from the Bronx who has spent his life advocating for his community. We discuss pressing issues such as the social safety net, housing inequality, mental health, bipartisanship, and Rep. Torres’ personal journey from public housing to Congress. We also touch on Israel, antisemitism, and the future of American democracy.

What We Discuss:
  • How Congressman Torres’ personal experiences with poverty and public housing shaped his political career.
  • His perspective on the Republican budget resolution and its impact on working-class Americans.
  • Why mental health advocacy is deeply personal to him and the tools he uses to maintain his well-being.
  • His unwavering support for Israel and the backlash he has faced because of it.
  • Insights on the current political landscape, Donald Trump’s influence, and the need for bipartisanship.
  • Whether Rep. Torres is considering a run for governor of New York and what motivates his political aspirations.
  • How to engage in better political and religious discussions without hostility.
Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Introducing Ritchie Torres – His background, legislative achievements, and what drives him. [00:02:00] GOP Budget Cuts & Social Safety Net – Why the latest proposal is a “frontal assault” on working-class Americans. [00:04:00] Personal Story & His Greatest Hero – How being raised by a single mother in the Bronx shaped his worldview. [00:07:00] Mental Health & Politics – How Rep. Torres overcame depression and why he’s open about talking about mental health. [00:14:00] Facing Backlash for Supporting Israel – The threats and vitriol he has endured for his stance. [00:20:00] Avoiding Political Distractions – Why he focuses on core economic issues instead of social media trends. [00:22:00] Trump 2.0 & The Future of Democracy – His concerns about a second Trump presidency. [00:25:00] Political Future: Running for Governor? – Why he believes New York needs a new generation of leadership. [00:27:00] How to Talk Politics Without Killin' Each Other – The importance of intellectual humility and pluralism.

Featured Quotes:

“Before I’m a congressman or a councilman, I’m first and foremost the son of my mother...” 

“I refuse to live in fear of the extremes. I insist on doing what I think is right, even if it means standing alone.” 

“Not only should civil discourse be possible, it’s a necessity for a pluralistic democracy like ours.” 

“If you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result, that’s the definition of insanity.” 

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde on Faith, Politics, and Ethical Conversations in a Polarized Nation24 Feb 202501:06:54

In this timely edition of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, D.C., and the Washington National Cathedral. Bishop Budde is a well-respected spiritual leader who has appeared on PBS NewsHour, Meet the Press, Good Morning America, and The Today Show.

The conversation dives into Bishop Budde’s faith journey, her reflections on political and social issues, and her approach to leading with grace and courage in divisive times. The discussion also touches on the controversy surrounding her sermon and how she directly addressed Donald Trump at the National Cathedral following the 2025 presidential inauguration.

What We Discuss
  • Bishop Budde’s personal faith journey, from her early religious experiences to her leadership in the Episcopal Church.
  • The challenges of navigating faith, politics, and national unity in today’s polarized climate.
  • How to extend grace and practice mercy even in the face of criticism.
  • The role of the church in advocating for social justice, particularly regarding immigration and LGBTQ+ rights.
  • Strategies for engaging in difficult conversations while maintaining mutual respect.
Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction to the episode and guest, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde.

[00:02:00] – Bishop Budde shares her faith journey and the struggles she faced reconciling different religious influences.

[00:10:00] – The tension between faith and exclusivity: why some versions of Christianity felt limiting to her.

[00:15:00] – The discipline of grace: choosing to respond with compassion rather than anger, even when faced with opposition.

[00:26:00] – Bishop Budde’s response to the 2025 presidential inauguration sermon controversy and the importance of speaking truth with love.

[00:38:00] – Handling criticism and maintaining a sense of personal and spiritual balance.

[00:52:00] – Finding hope in uncertain times: How we can cultivate a spirit of resilience and faith amid societal challenges.

[00:55:00] – The importance of dialogue: How to foster better conversations across political and religious differences.

[01:03:00] – Final thoughts and how to follow Bishop Budde’s work.

Featured Quotes

"If it’s not about love, it’s not about God." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"The discipline of grace is a practice, not a gift. It’s about choosing to respond with love even when it’s difficult." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"To be raised from the dead—whatever that means in our own lives—requires our consent to live again, to have our hearts broken again, and to take on all of life again." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"We need to ask ourselves: When was the last time I changed my mind? True dialogue requires being open to seeing the world differently." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

Resources Mentioned 📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:
  • Episcopal Church of Washington: Website

 

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The #1 Antidote for Toxic Partisanship22 Feb 202500:30:26

In this episode, host Corey Nathan takes on one of the biggest challenges in today’s society: toxic partisanship. He explores how political and social divisions have deepened, fueled by media, social networks, and entrenched ideological battles. But rather than just diagnosing the problem, Corey offers a powerful antidote—getting local and engaging in real-life, face-to-face conversations. He draws inspiration from scholars like Jonathan Haidt, Katherine Stewart and Robert Putnam, as well as his personal experiences, to make a compelling case for community-based solutions to polarization.

What We Discuss

✅ The real extent of political division in America—and why it's not as bad as it seems ✅ How social media and national narratives exaggerate our differences ✅ The philosophy of Carl Schmitt and its impact on modern political discourse ✅ Why local engagement—like city council meetings, PTAs, and even bar conversations—is the key to bridging divides ✅ Practical steps to foster meaningful discussions and rebuild relationships

Episode Highlights

⏳ [00:02:00] – The growing problem of toxic partisanship and how social media makes it worse ⏳ [00:05:00] – A study from More in Common shows Americans want unity, but doubt the other side does ⏳ [00:09:00] – Corey shares personal examples of online political attacks and how they reflect broader polarization ⏳ [00:14:00] – A key solution: Local engagement and organizations like Village Square ⏳ [00:17:00] – How shared community goals, like better roads and schools, help bridge ideological divides ⏳ [00:20:00] – The inspiring story of Joe Walsh and Fred Guttenberg: Two ideological opposites who became close friends ⏳ [00:23:00] – The challenge of engaging with people who seem beyond reach—and knowing when to step away ⏳ [00:26:00] – A call to action: Take the first step, invite someone for coffee, and start humanizing one another

Featured Quotes

🗨️ "Division defines the country, but the desire to be united transcends parties." – More in Common study 🗨️ "The number one antidote to toxic partisanship is simply getting together." – Corey Nathan 🗨️ "When you're with each other, you're no longer just a data point—you’re a human being." – Corey Nathan 🗨️ "We don't have to agree on everything to build something better together." – Liz Joyner, Village Square

Resources Mentioned

🔗 Village Square – Bridging divides through local community engagement 🔗 More in Common Study – Research on polarization and unity 🔗 Jonathan Haidt’s Work – Understanding social and political divisions 🔗 Robert Putnam’s Bowling Alone – How community engagement strengthens democracy 🔗 Joe Walsh & Fred Guttenberg’s Story – Bridging the political divide

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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MONEY, LIES, AND GOD: INSIDE THE MOVEMENT TO DESTROY AMERICAN DEMOCRACY with author and investigative journalist Katherine Stewart18 Feb 202500:49:26

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes investigative journalist and author Katherine Stewart back to the show. Katherine has spent over 15 years researching and reporting on religious nationalism and its impact on American democracy. Her new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy, exposes the deep financial and ideological networks fueling Christian nationalism and the broader anti-democratic movement.

This conversation explores how extreme wealth, disinformation, and religious nationalism are being weaponized against democracy—and what we can do about it.

📌 What We Discuss
  • How Katherine Stewart uncovered the deeper connections between Christian nationalism and the assault on democracy.
  • The role of money and misinformation in fueling anti-democratic movements.
  • The reactionary nihilism driving today’s far-right ideologies.
  • The influence of Carl Schmitt’s philosophy on modern authoritarian movements.
  • The connection between Christian nationalism and billionaire-funded political agendas.
  • How we can protect democracy and fight back against these movements.
⏳ Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction to Katherine Stewart Corey introduces Katherine Stewart, her investigative work, and her new book Money, Lies, and God.

[00:03:00] – The Origins of Her Investigation Katherine shares how her research started with Good News Clubs infiltrating public schools and evolved into uncovering a broader movement attacking democracy.

[00:12:00] – The Enlightenment Ideals America Was Founded On How fundamental American values like pluralism and democracy are under attack by Christian nationalist movements.

[00:19:00] – The Role of Money, Lies, and Christian Nationalism How billionaires, propaganda, and religious nationalism work together to undermine democracy.

[00:28:00] – The Psychology of the Movement Stories from inside Moms for Liberty and other right-wing organizations, and how fear and misinformation fuel these movements.

[00:32:00] – Carl Schmitt and the Playbook of Authoritarianism How Nazi political theorist Carl Schmitt’s ideas on power, division, and permanent emergency are influencing the New Right.

[00:41:00] – Why We Should Be Concerned—and What We Can Do Katherine explains why we should be alarmed, but also how grassroots activism can defend democracy.

[00:44:00] – Final Thoughts: How We Can Build a Pro-Democracy Coalition Katherine shares her six key takeaways from Money, Lies, and God and why organization and truth-telling matter now more than ever.

📢 Featured Quotes

"They told us they were going to smash the institutions that safeguard democracy—and that’s exactly what they’re doing." 

"This movement isn’t just about the culture wars—it’s about power, money, and dismantling democracy itself." 

"They want to replace public education with a religious and corporate-controlled system. The culture wars are just a smokescreen." 

"Not everybody who wants to go back to the ‘good old days’ is a nihilist. But those who want to smash democracy in pursuit of a mythical past certainly are." 

📚 Resources Mentioned

 

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please: ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Have Christians Forgotten the First Commandment?16 Feb 202500:34:04

In this edition, Corey Nathan challenges listeners—especially his fellow Christians—to consider whether they have forgotten the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." He explores how idolatry has evolved beyond worshiping wooden idols and now manifests in politics, ideology, and the way Christians engage with their faith in a modern democracy.

This is meant to be an open conversation for people of all beliefs. Corey discusses the intersection of faith and civic engagement, posing challenging questions about whether political preferences are shaping morality rather than the other way around.

📌 What We Discuss

✔️ How idolatry in modern times is often just a few degrees off from traditional religious practices. ✔️ Why many Christians reject the Jesus of the Gospel in favor of political leaders and ideologies. ✔️ The dangers of replacing the God of Scripture with a God of personal or political making. ✔️ How politics has become a form of religion for many. ✔️ A deep dive into reactions to Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde’s sermon and what it reveals about faith in America today.

⏳ Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction: Corey welcomes listeners and introduces the big question: Have Christians forgotten the first commandment?

[00:02:30] – The Meaning of Idolatry Today: It’s not about golden statues but about how religious practices can be slightly distorted—just a few degrees off—leading to misplaced worship.

[00:05:45] – Rejecting the Jesus of the Gospel: Corey recounts the backlash against Bishop Budde for quoting Jesus and discusses how some Christians react negatively to Christ’s actual teachings when they challenge political views.

[00:14:30] – Creating a God in Our Own Image: Are Christians shaping their beliefs to fit their politics, rather than aligning their politics with their faith?

[00:18:10] – Trump, Religion, and the Fruit of the Spirit: Corey examines whether Trump’s actions and character align with Christian virtues, calling out the contradictions in how some Christians perceive him as a godly leader.

[00:21:40] – Religious Symbols and Political Extremism: Corey discusses alarming juxtapositions, like crosses displayed next to gallows on January 6th, and the disturbing fusion of faith and nationalism.

[00:26:45] – The Politics of Cruelty: Highlighting Pete Wehner’s critique of USAID cuts and how many self-proclaimed Christians align with leaders who embrace cruelty.

[00:30:00] – Final Reflection: How do we participate in healing a broken world rather than contributing to its fractures?

💬 Featured Quotes

🗣️ “Idolatry isn’t necessarily about worshiping something completely different—it’s about replacing God with something that looks like God but is just a few degrees off.” 

🗣️ “If you start with political affiliation and back everything else into that—including morality, truth, and even basic decency—you’ve made politics your god.” 

🗣️ “The world is supposed to look at Christians and see Jesus. But too often, it sees something monstrous.” – John Pavlovitz

🔗 Resources Mentioned

📖 The Beautiful Mess by John Pavlovitz – Substack 📰 The Cruel Attack on USAID by Pete Wehner – The Atlantic 🎥 Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde’s Sermon – YouTube

📢 Call to Action

If you found this conversation compelling, help us continue the discussion:

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Let’s keep talking about politics and religion—with curiosity, respect, and a commitment to truth.

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California’s Path to Independence? A Conversation about CalExit with Marcus Ruiz Evans11 Feb 202501:06:36

In this episode, host Corey Nathan engages in a timely and candid discussion with Marcus Ruiz Evans, the leader of the CalExit movement. Marc has been spearheading efforts to make California an independent nation for over a decade, publishing California’s Next Century 2.0 in 2012.

With the California Secretary of State recently approving a petition to start collecting signatures for an independence initiative, this conversation is more relevant than ever. Marc provides historical context, legal perspectives, and the strategic steps required to potentially break away from the United States.

📌 What We Discuss

✔️ Why California is a donor state—giving more to the federal government than it receives in return. ✔️ The legal and historical precedents for secession and why Marc believes it’s possible. ✔️ The step-by-step process of the CalExit initiative and how Californians can participate. ✔️ How political polarization and federal neglect are fueling the movement. ✔️ What happens if California becomes independent—from military bases to tax changes.

⏳ Episode Highlights & Key Moments

🕒 [00:02:00] – Marcus shares his personal story and deep ties to California’s culture and identity. 🕒 [00:08:00] – Why California’s infrastructure and social programs are underfunded despite its economic power. 🕒 [00:12:00] – Historical precedents: California’s brief history as an independent nation and lessons from Scotland’s independence movement. 🕒 [00:22:00] – The federal government’s treatment of California, including disaster relief neglect. 🕒 [00:31:00] – The current CalExit initiative: How to sign the petition and what it aims to achieve. 🕒 [00:39:00] – Would Congress allow California to secede? The politics behind the decision. 🕒 [00:43:00] – What would independence look like? Tax benefits and regulatory changes for businesses. 🕒 [00:47:00] – The growing divide in America and why the U.S. is as politically polarized as it was after the Civil War.

💬 Featured Quotes

🗣️ “California has been a donor state for over 45 years. We give more than we get, and we’re funding infrastructure for states that are already better off than us.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans

🗣️ “When the president of the United States tells California ‘I don’t know if I want to help you’ while people’s homes are burning, that’s not how you treat fellow countrymen.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans

🗣️ “The federal government stopped publishing reports on which states are donor states right after Governor Schwarzenegger called out the unfair system.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans

🗣️ “The legal claim that secession is impossible is false—Texas v. White actually allows it with the consent of Congress.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans

📚 Resources & Links Mentioned

🔗 Sign the Petition & Learn More – CalExitNow.org 📖 California’s Next Century 2.0 by Marcus Ruiz Evans 📚 The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded America Is Tearing Us Apart by Bill Bishop 📺 Marcus Ruiz Evans on YouTube 📜 Texas v. White – The Supreme Court case discussing secession legality

📢 Call to Action

✅ If you support the initiative, sign the petition at CalExitNow.org ✅ Call your state legislators to request a Blue Ribbon Panel investigation into California’s independence. ✅ Follow us on YouTube – @PoliticsAndReligion ✅ Share this episode with fellow Californians and join the conversation.

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The Homeless Conservative: Blake Fischer07 Feb 202501:15:08

In this episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with Blake Fischer, the creator and host of The Homeless Conservative podcast. Blake describes himself as a constitutional conservative who feels politically "homeless" in today’s climate. They dive deep into politics, faith, and media, all while challenging ideological silos in an engaging and candid conversation.

Blake shares his unique political journey, from growing up in Oklahoma and getting involved in politics at an early age to becoming a musician touring the country in a punk-rock band. His experiences shape his political perspective, emphasizing constitutional principles, independent thinking, and holding both sides accountable.

📌 What We Discuss:

✔️ Blake’s political awakening and how his family's involvement in local politics shaped his views. ✔️ What it means to be a constitutional conservative in today’s political landscape. ✔️ How his Christian faith informs his political views—and why he's critical of the evangelical right’s embrace of Trump. ✔️ His take on Trump 2.0—what worries him and what he’s optimistic about. ✔️ The role of media in shaping public perception and the dangers of political silos. ✔️ How to have meaningful political discussions without losing friends (or your mind!).

⏳ Episode Highlights & Key Moments:

⏱️ [01:30] – Meet Blake Fischer, host of The Homeless Conservative podcast. ⏱️ [03:00] – Blake’s early exposure to politics—from family involvement to local campaigns. ⏱️ [06:30] – The evolution of political media, from cable news to opinion journalism. ⏱️ [10:00] – What does it mean to be a constitutional conservative? Why Blake believes in limiting government power. ⏱️ [19:00] – Blake’s background as a musician, touring in a punk rock band. ⏱️ [25:00] – His Christian faith and how it intersects with his politics. ⏱️ [33:00] – Processing the 2024 election cycle, from Biden’s debate performance to Trump’s nomination of J.D. Vance. ⏱️ [41:00] – What concerns Blake the most about Trump’s second term? ⏱️ [50:00] – The role of big tech and Elon Musk in Trump’s presidency. ⏱️ [57:00] – How can we have better conversations across political and religious differences?

💬 Featured Quotes:

🗣️ Blake Fischer on the Constitution: "The Constitution is brilliant—not because it grants us rights, but because it recognizes that our rights exist beyond government authority."

🗣️ On the evangelical embrace of Trump: "It’s not that Trump can’t be president; it’s that we should stop pretending he’s something he’s not."

🗣️ On political discourse: "The biggest mistake people make in political conversations is assuming bad intent. Most people believe they’re advocating for something good."

📚 Resources & Mentions:

🔗 The Homeless Conservative Podcast – Blake Fischer’s podcast 🔗 Jonah Goldberg – Conservative columnist and author 🔗 Thomas Sowell – Economist and political thinker

Call to Action

If you enjoyed this conversation, please: ✅ Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform ✅ Leave a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics) ✅ Subscribe on YouTube for video content and short clips (https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion)

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about politics, faith, and the future of American democracy. Tune in and join the conversation! 🎧🇺🇸

Jonathan Rauch: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy03 Feb 202501:30:00

In this episode, we welcome back Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. Jon joined us to discuss his new book, Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy.

We dive deep into the intersection of faith, democracy, and civic engagement (that's our jam!), exploring how American Christianity has shifted in recent years and what that means for the future of our democracy. We also discuss the aftermath of the 2024 election, the rise of political tribalism, and the role of faith in shaping a more just and stable society.

What We Discuss
  • How Jonathan Rauch’s perspective on faith and democracy evolved over time (including what Jon refers to as the dumbest thing he ever wrote).
  • Why he believes Christianity has played a crucial role in supporting democracy—and where it has gone wrong.
  • The key differences between “thin Christianity” and “thick Christianity.”
  • How the LDS Church offers a model for civic engagement based on negotiation and peacemaking.
  • Why the loss of institutional trust is fueling political and social instability.
  • The role of Braver Angels and other organizations in bridging political divides.
Episode Highlights

⏳ [00:02:00] – Jonathan Rauch discusses his background, his past books, and his upcoming release, Cross Purposes. ⏳ [00:07:00] – Reflecting on the 2024 election and why it was surprisingly “ordinary” despite extreme circumstances. ⏳ [00:13:00] – How Trump’s second administration is reshaping democracy and institutions. ⏳ [00:22:00] – Rauch’s personal journey: From skepticism about religion to recognizing its role in democracy. ⏳ [00:35:00] – The rise of “thin Christianity” and how churches are struggling with political identity. ⏳ [00:44:00] – How the LDS Church provides an example of “thick Christianity” and civic engagement. ⏳ [00:57:00] – Rauch’s concerns about post-liberalism and authoritarian tendencies in American politics. ⏳ [01:10:00] – The importance of doubt, curiosity, and engaging across differences. ⏳ [01:17:00] – Final thoughts: How to be better citizens and people of faith in a pluralistic society.

Featured Quotes

💬 “I believed, with some justification, that Christianity was bigoted and cruel and hypocritical to minorities like me. And I was wrong.” – Jonathan Rauch

💬 “Liberalism, properly understood, means that all human beings are created free and equal. And if we lose that, we lose everything.” – Jonathan Rauch

💬 “The LDS Church is one of the few religious institutions that has thought through a theology of civic engagement. And that’s something all Christians can learn from.” – Jonathan Rauch

💬 “Jesus’ message is radical and countercultural. The question is: Are we actually following it?” – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned

📖 Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy by Jonathan Rauch  📖 The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth by Jonathan Rauch 🌎 Braver Angels – Bridging the Political Divide

Call to Action

If you enjoyed this conversation, please: ✅ Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform ✅ Leave a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics) ✅ Subscribe on YouTube for video content and short clips (https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion)

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This episode explores the deep intersections of faith, democracy, and civic responsibility. Whether you are religious or secular, left or right, these discussions are crucial to understanding where we are and where we’re headed as a country.

🔥 Listen now and join the conversation, but with gentleness and respect! 🔥

7 Tools for Engaging With "Them"31 Jan 202500:46:36

Is it possible to have decent conversations across political differences. Short answer: Yeah!

In this episode, host Corey Nathan explores how we can have meaningful, respectful, and productive conversations with those who think differently from us—politically, religiously, and ideologically. After four years of hosting the show and speaking with a wide array of guests, Corey shares his own insights, offering seven practical tools (plus a bonus tip) for engaging with “one of them” in a way that fosters connection rather than division.

What Is Discussed
  • How to give yourself and others grace in difficult conversations
  • The importance of setting proper expectations when discussing sensitive topics
  • Why asking the right questions is more powerful than having the perfect comeback
  • How storytelling can humanize those with whom we disagree
  • The value of being open to the phrase "I never thought of it that way"
  • How to recognize when it’s time to step away from a conversation or to love someone "from a safe distance"
  • Resources and organizations that can help you navigate difficult discussions
Episode Highlights

⏳ [00:02:00] – Reviews from listeners: the good, the bad, and the constructive ⏳ [00:05:00] – The purpose of this episode: sharing tools for engaging with "one of them" ⏳ [00:06:00] – Tool #1: Grace – Accepting that we will all make mistakes in these conversations ⏳ [00:09:00] – Tool #2: Proper Expectations – Why we shouldn't expect to change someone's mind 180 degrees ⏳ [00:12:00] – Tool #3: Asking Questions – Learning from Jesus' approach of responding with questions ⏳ [00:20:00] – Tool #4: Storytelling – The power of narrative in understanding each other as human beings ⏳ [00:25:00] – Tool #5: Being Open to "I Never Thought of It That Way" Moments ⏳ [00:32:00] – Tool #6: Recognizing Your Line – Knowing when to step away from an unhealthy dynamic ⏳ [00:35:00] – Tool #7: Equipping Yourself – Books, organizations, and resources for learning how to engage better ⏳ [00:38:00] – Bonus Tip: Taking Care of Yourself – Mental, emotional, and physical well-being in this work

Featured Quotes

📢 “Give yourself grace. You’re not going to get it right every time.” 📢 “If we ask the right question, it allows that person, instead of being in a posture of combat, to tell their story.”  📢 “Trying to inform, like trying to win, can get in the way of trying to listen.” – Monica Guzmán (as quoted in the episode) 📢 “People are mysteries, not puzzles.” – Monica Guzmán

Resources Mentioned

📖 Books:

🌍 Organizations:

🎥 Watch & Support the Podcast:

Call to Action

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider: ✅ Subscribing to the podcast on your favorite platform ✅ Leaving a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics) ✅ Sharing this episode with friends and family who want to have better conversations

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🔹 Now go talk some politics and religion—but with gentleness and respect. 💡

Sussing out Excellent Journalism from All the Crap with Julie Mason, SiriusXM Radio Host and Former White House Reporter28 Jan 202500:59:36

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Julie Mason, renowned journalist and host of The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS channel. Julie brings decades of experience in journalism, spanning local, state, and national politics, and shares her sharp insights on the evolving media landscape, political discourse, and the state of journalism today.

What We Discuss:
  1. The evolving role of journalists in a polarized media environment.
  2. How to navigate news consumption and discern credible sources.
  3. Insights into the challenges of covering politicians and divisive topics.
  4. The growing intersection between social media platforms and journalism.
  5. Why re-engaging with quality news content is critical to democracy.
  6. Mike Pence: The King of Hilarity... Wait. WHAT?!?! No, really
Episode Highlights:
  1. [00:00:00] – Corey welcomes Julie back to the podcast after four years and reflects on her journey in journalism, from print reporting to hosting her SiriusXM show.
  2. [00:09:00] – Julie explains how she transitioned from print to radio and why she took the leap into the unfamiliar world of broadcasting.
  3. [00:20:00] – The challenges of modern journalism: Julie addresses disinformation, lies in politics, and why reporters must focus on stories that truly impact people’s lives.
  4. [00:27:00] – A discussion on how journalism is evolving to meet the needs of a fatigued audience, from long-form storytelling to true crime podcasts.
  5. [00:40:00] – Julie emphasizes the importance of journalists remaining stoic and professional, especially during major historical events like January 6th.
  6. [00:47:00] – Corey and Julie explore ways to have constructive conversations with people across ideological divides, drawing inspiration from bipartisan efforts in Congress.
  7. [00:55:00] – Julie’s call to action: Why supporting quality journalism through subscriptions and active engagement matters more than ever.
Featured Quotes:
  • “You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”
  • “Politician lied is not really the story—focus on what impacts people’s lives.”
  • “To have meaningful conversations, you have to put down your weapons and see the humanity in the other person.”
Resources Mentioned:
  1. The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS Channel – www.siriusxm.com/channels/potus-politics 
  2. Substack Recommendations:
  3. Dirty John Podcast – Listen Here
Call to Action Social Media Links

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Baseball Is Back (and So Is the Debate) | East Meets West Sports Crossover20 Feb 202600:31:41
A Note for TP&R Listeners

From time to time, it helps to talk about something other than politics in order to understand politics.

Sports is one of the last shared civic spaces where identity, loyalty, disagreement, trash talk, and even tribalism can play out without destroying relationships. In other words, many of the same human instincts we explore on Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other show up in a baseball season just as clearly as they do in an election season.

So today’s episode comes from another show in the SCAN Media family, East Meets West Sports, co-hosted with veteran broadcaster Rick Garcia. Same curiosity about why people care so deeply about what they care about. Just with box scores instead of polling numbers.

If it’s your thing, great. If not, regular TP&R programming resumes next episode.

Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other is proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what is broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

And thank you to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for helping make conversations like this possible.

East Meets West Sports with Rick Garcia and Corey Nathan

Rick Garcia and Corey Nathan kick off baseball season with a deep dive into the offseason moves that have everyone talking and at least one list that has Corey fuming about West Coast bias.

They break down the Dodgers' superteam additions of Edwin Diaz and Kyle Tucker, the Mets' stacked roster and farm system, and why teams like Pittsburgh can scout great talent but can't hold onto it. They also get into the salary cap debate, Steve Cohen's "no captain" declaration, and whether meddling owners ever really help their teams.

And in Pop That Culture, they tackle the biggest controversy heading into the Winter Olympics: Norway's ski jumping suits, a crotch-area aerodynamics scandal that has to be heard to be believed.

Find Us On

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube

Follow Rick Garcia: @RickGarciaNews on X (Twitter)

Follow Corey Nathan: @coreysnathan on Substack, Threads, Instagram, X & more

Key Takeaways 1. The Dodgers Just Keep Getting Better

Yahoo Sports graded the Dodgers' offseason an A+, and it's hard to argue. Adding Edwin Diaz from the Mets and Kyle Tucker as a free agent gives them arguably the deepest roster in the game (even if Tucker now ranks as maybe the seventh-best player on his own team).

2. Corey Is Very Excited About the Mets (No Surprise There)

Two surefire Hall of Famers in Francisco Lindor and Juan Soto, a legit ace in Freddie Peralta, a deep rotation, improved defense up the middle, and a top-five farm system, even after trading prospects. Rookie of the Year candidate Nolan McLean headlines a wave of young talent coming up. Corey believes. Rick is... skeptical.

3. The "Most Improved" List Has a West Coast Bias Problem

A MLB.com ranking of teams that improved most this offseason had the Giants and Rockies ahead of the Mets. The Rockies! Corey had thoughts. Many thoughts. The list is based on "projected WAR," which only raises more questions.

4. Small-Market Teams Are Wasting Their Advantages

Pittsburgh has one of the best farm systems in baseball, including the top overall prospect, but keeps developing players for wealthier teams to sign away. Rick and Corey agree the game needs a salary floor, not just a luxury tax, to force lower-payroll owners to actually invest in their teams.

5. Steve Cohen Says No Captains, Ever

The Mets owner drew headlines by declaring there will never be a team captain while he owns the club. Rick's take: that's exactly the kind of call owners shouldn't be making. Corey's take: Cohen is actually a good owner who trusts his front office. And Lindor leads whether he has a C on his jersey or not.

6. CrotchGate Comes to the Winter Olympics

Norway's ski jumping team has been caught altering the crotch area of its suits to gain an aerodynamic edge. The physics actually make sense. A roomier suit creates lift during the V-position jump. Some athletes allegedly went further than just tailoring. Rick and Corey debate whether this is innovative gamesmanship or just cheating. There is only one correct answer. Or maybe two.

The season starts. The arguments never do.

How Pro-Democracy Patriots Can Persist in an Anti-Democratic Time24 Jan 202500:32:36

In this episode, host Corey Nathan addresses the pressing issue of how pro-democracy patriots - the large coalition of folks who believe in this American experiment - can endure during times when anti-democratic tendencies are metastasizing. Drawing from personal experiences, philosophical insights, and cultural reflections, we explore ways of maintaining hope, practicing discernment, and fostering meaningful connections amid political division.

What We Discuss:
  • Strategies for practicing discernment in consuming media and news.
  • The importance of mindfulness and staying present in times of uncertainty.
  • How local and state-level civic participation can make a meaningful impact.
  • Insights into nurturing relationships with those holding differing political views.
  • The role of beauty, truth, and community in sustaining democratic ideals.
Episode Highlights:
  1. [00:00:00] Introduction: Corey shares updates on a recent wildfire evacuation and gratitude for firefighters' efforts.
  2. [00:03:00] Pro-Democracy Patriots: Corey explores how individuals committed to democracy can stay engaged and positive during anti-democratic times.
  3. [00:06:00] Reflecting on MLK Day: The significance of Martin Luther King Jr.’s legacy and the moral universe's arc bending toward justice.
  4. [00:10:00] Media Discernment: Corey discusses how he filters through news and commentary to focus on credible journalism and meaningful content.
  5. [00:19:00] Practicing Mindfulness: The importance of staying present in the moment to avoid spiraling into anxiety.
  6. [00:22:00] Truth and Beauty: A reflection on Kristen du Mez's advice to seek out beauty and truth for strength and grounding.
  7. [00:27:00] Navigating Relationships: Balancing relationships with those holding differing political views while maintaining personal boundaries.
  8. [00:28:00] Local Civic Engagement: Why local and state politics deserve more attention and how they affect daily life more significantly than federal issues.
Featured Quotes:
  • “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” – Reflecting on MLK Jr.’s wisdom.
  • “Practicing discernment means filtering out the junk from the substance and focusing on credible voices.” – Corey Nathan.
  • “You can still love people who disagree with you—sometimes from a safe distance.” – Corey Nathan.
  • “Truth is about staying generous in a world that baits you into resentment.” – Kristen Du Mez.
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Church for the Rest of Us in a Post-Evangelical World | with Joe Smith, Lead Pastor of Shift GNV21 Jan 202501:18:18

Is there a church that can be for the rest of us? Are we living in a "post-evangelical" world?

 

In this episode, we welcome Joe Smith, lead pastor of Shift GNV in Gainesville, Florida, and host of the Shift Happens Podcast. Known for creating "a church for the rest of us," Joe shares his journey through faith deconstruction and reconstruction, building a community for those feeling spiritually homeless in a post-evangelical world. The conversation explores his innovative ministry, personal experiences, and the broader implications of inclusivity and resistance in modern faith communities.

 

Episode Highlights

  1. [00:01:00] - Corey introduces Joe Smith and dives into his work at Shift GNV, emphasizing the concept of "a church for the rest of us."
  2. [00:02:30] - Joe explains the origins and purpose of Shift GNV, creating a safe space for people navigating post-evangelical spirituality.
  3. [00:06:00] - Defining "post-evangelical" and reflecting on the societal shift away from rigid evangelical structures.
  4. [00:14:30] - Joe recounts his personal experience with religious trauma, including grappling with the fear-based teachings of his upbringing.
  5. [00:23:00] - The transformative impact of fatherhood on Joe's beliefs about gender roles and inclusion.
  6. [00:34:00] - A modern perspective on the parable of the Good Samaritan and its application to societal divisions today.
  7. [00:41:00] - Joe's views on resisting MAGA ideologies and the responsibility of faith communities to challenge injustice.
  8. [00:52:00] - Introducing the Post Evangelical Collective (PEC) and its role in fostering forward-thinking, inclusive church practices.
Featured Quotes
  1. "If I believe that God is love, then this [fear-based compulsion] doesn’t produce good fruit—it can’t be of God."
  2. "Jesus wasn’t scandalous for who he excluded, but for who he included."
  3. "My belonging to God isn’t complete until I understand my belonging to you."
  4. "The boundaries I set are the best way to love you and myself simultaneously."
Resources Mentioned Call to Action Social Media Links

Corey Nathan (@coreysnathan):

Joe Smith

 

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The L.A. Wildfires Brought Out the Best of Us and Worst of Us18 Jan 202500:22:54

What has our response been to the wildfires in Los Angeles? Frankly, it's brought out some of the worst of us. But thankfully, there have also been many heroes from LA's firefighters and firefighters who came here from neighboring counties and states, to other countries including Mexico and Canada who lent manpower, vehicles and equipment, to everyday people who've offered up their homes, food and time to help in any way they can.

 

In this special edition of TP&R, we take a look at the devastating wildfires in Los Angeles. Corey shares personal experiences living near the affected areas in Santa Clarita and reflects on the dual nature of humanity's response—highlighting both acts of compassion and the spread of harmful misinformation. Corey calls attention to how political leaders and media figures handle disasters, the role of conspiracy theories, and how communities can unite in the face of adversity.

 

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Corey shares his firsthand experience with the high winds and proximity to the Hearst Fire in Sylmar.
  • [00:03:00] Personal stories of friends and neighbors who lost homes or were displaced by the fires.
  • [00:05:00] Discussion on Yair Rosenberg's article about conspiracy theories surrounding the wildfires.
  • [00:07:00] Critique of political leaders exploiting the disaster for political gain, specifically Donald Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson.
  • [00:10:00] Praise for Congressman Chuck Edwards’ efforts to combat misinformation following Hurricane Helene.
  • [00:12:00] The role of media figures like Tucker Carlson, Matt Walsh and Dan Bongino in spreading divisive rhetoric.
  • [00:17:00] Practical ways to support wildfire victims, including offering shelter, donations, and volunteering.
  • [00:20:00] Encouragement to be part of "the best of us" through compassionate actions.
  Featured Quotes:
  • "Healthy communities ask themselves, what did we do wrong? Unhealthy ones ask, who did this to us?" – Yair Rosenberg
  • "When did capitalizing on devastating natural disasters to score political points become a thing?" – Corey Nathan
  • "Most people have done the right thing—neighbors looking out for neighbors, friends checking in with friends." – Corey Nathan
  • "The ministry of 'that sucks'—sometimes the best thing you can do is just listen and be there." – Corey Nathan

 

Resources Mentioned:

 

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If you appreciate the thoughtful conversations we’re fostering here, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the show with friends. Your support helps us continue discussing important topics with gentleness and respect. Check us out on YouTube and support us on Patreon.

 

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Wajahat Ali: Navigating Chaos and Divisiveness with Hope and Humanity13 Jan 202501:04:36

When there's such chaos amd divisiveness all around us, what can we do to cultivate a sense of hope and humanity?

 

In this episode, we welcome back Wajahat Ali, celebrated writer, editor of The Left Hook Substack, co-host of Democracy-ish Podcast, and author. Known for his humor and insight, Waj brings his unique perspective as a father, storyteller, and political commentator to discuss navigating the tumultuous political and social landscape of 2025. Together, Corey and Wajahat dive deep into themes of decency, empathy, and how to cultivate hope amid chaos.

Episode Highlights:
  • [00:02:00] Wajahat muses about earning a "Five Timer Club" t-shirt.
  • [00:04:00] Discussion on the California wildfires and the politicization of natural disasters.
  • [00:06:00] Wajahat analyzes the blame game targeting DEI initiatives in crisis situations.
  • [00:09:00] Corey and Wajahat explore the role of empathy and decency in politics.
  • [00:11:00] Wajahat reflects on hope during his daughter’s cancer journey and how that translates to political resilience.
  • [00:16:00] Star Wars analogy: How everyday people (the "Ewoks") can fight against authoritarianism.
  • [00:22:00] A candid discussion on America's historical resistance to progress and how that impacts the current political climate.
  • [00:35:00] The importance of rest and joy in sustaining activism and engagement.
  • [00:54:00] Wajahat’s advice on engaging with people across ideological divides—when to plant seeds of change and when to walk away.
Featured Quotes:
  • "Hope is optimism with action. It's believing in a better story but doing your part to get there." – Wajahat Ali
  • "You can't save everyone. The caravan must move forward, but the doors remain open." – Wajahat Ali
  • "We could have been so much better, and we chose this." – Wajahat Ali
  • "One conversation with one person can create a ripple effect. Even a one-degree shift can matter." – Corey Nathan
Resources How to find Waj
It's About Democracy and Decency10 Jan 202500:15:54

As we welcome in a new year, what is this moment about? What have we been leading up to? And what will the coming months and years be about? 

 

In this episode, Corey reflects on the importance of democracy and decency in today's polarized climate. Emphasizing respectful dialogue and the significance of national and local political involvement, we explore the impact of the election and the ongoing challenges posed by political divisiveness. We delve into insights from notable essays and personal experiences, advocating for voting, recognizing the humanity in others, and knowing when to step away from unproductive conversations. Join us in the commitment to have more basic decency and to respect our democratic institutions.

 

Episode Highlights
  • [00:00:00] Intro: The intersection of democracy and decency.
  • [00:03:00] Discusses the significance of respecting election results for a healthy democracy.
  • [00:05:00] Explores how many voters are motivated by opposition to perceived threats from the other side.
  • [00:06:00] Highlights Masha Gessen's insights on liberal democracy versus populism.
  • [00:08:00] Corey shares personal experiences with online threats related to political discourse.
  • [00:10:00] Emphasizes the importance of modeling proper behavior after elections.
  • [00:12:00] Reflects on David Brooks’ perspective on understanding people in all their complexities.
  • [00:14:00] Discusses knowing when to disengage from toxic interactions to preserve well-being.

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

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It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

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Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Best of 2024 | Renovating Democracy with Danielle Allen: Democracy Advocate, Harvard Professor and Nonprofit Leader07 Jan 202501:02:18

(Given that yesterday was the 4 year anniversary of Jan. 6, 2021, an attempted violent disruption of the peaceful transfer of power, one of our nation's most cherished traditions, we thought it would be a good time to refresh our conversation with Prof. Danielle Allen who has been ensconced in the work of renovating our democratic institutions.)

 

Our democracy is brittle. Many would say our Constitutional Republic is in trouble. So what kind of work can we do on "actually renovating our institutions"?

 

We were fortunate to be joined by Dr. Danielle Allen, a democracy advocate, Harvard professor and nonprofit leader who's doing something about it. We talked about how to maintain a loving spirit when faced with "a lot of bleeps"; Danielle's fascinating family legacy and her "obsession" with democracy; what the heck a eudaemonist democratic pragmatist is; the ways the 5 freedoms articulated in the 1st Amendment are under threat; the merits of ranked choice voting, expanding the House of Representatives and other democratic renovations; the imperative of developing a civic portfolio; and how to "not let our differences take our humanity hostage."

 

Prof. Danielle Allen is James Bryant Conant University Professor at Harvard University. She is a professor of political philosophy, ethics, and public policy and director of the Democratic Knowledge Project and of the Allen Lab for Democracy Renovation. Outside the University, she is a co-chair for the Our Common Purpose Commission and Founder and President for Partners In Democracy, where she advocates for democracy reform to create greater voice and access in our democracy, and to drive progress towards a new social contract that serves and includes us all.

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

Be sure to read Danielle's series in the Washington Post on How to Renovate American Democracy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/31/danielle-allen-american-democracy-renovation-series/

Best of 2024 | Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer-prize winning historian on AUTOCRACY, INC.: THE DICTATORS WHO WANT TO RUN THE WORLD03 Jan 202501:07:53

(Getting to speak with Anne Applebaum was such an honor. She's not only one of the world's most prominent historians and writers, Anne's focus on the fragility of democracy and emerging autocracies couldn't be more timely.)

 

In the 20th Century, we had Cold War adversaries. In the early 2000s, George W. Bush talked about the Axis of Evil. But are those frameworks the most accurate way to understand the forces attempting to undermine not just democratic nations but democratic ideas? And to what degree have these antagonists - those that are fundamentally opposed to our core principles such as the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and basic human rights - pervaded U.S. politics?

 

In this episode we welcome Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer-prize winning historian, staff writer at The Atlantic and senior fellow at the Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University. After discussing her motivations, experiences, and insights into the autocratic regimes and their impacts on global democracy, we dive into Anne’s new book Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World. We explore how autocracies collaborate, ways the rest of the world is complicit in autocratic behaviors, and strategies to combat these influences. The conversation also touches on Anne's personal history and initial fascination with the history, literature, culture and politics of the “Borderlands,” a region that includes Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and beyond.

 

01:53 Anne's Early Career and Inspirations

16:29 The Concept of Autocracy, Inc.

29:44 Global Complicity in Autocracy

34:39 Hamas and Global Destabilization

37:05 Trump's Influence and Dictator Admiration

39:17 Russian Propaganda and Dark Money in US Politics

42:37 Autocracy, Inc. and Democratic Values

52:43 Engaging in Local Politics and Understanding the Big Picture

 

anneapplebaum.substack.com

 

www.anneapplebaum.com/book/autocracy

 

AUTOCRACY IN AMERICA podcast - www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/08/introducing-autocracy-in-america/679474/

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Best of 2024 | Nancy French: NY Times best selling author, investigative journalist, storyteller... yet still gloriously feral!30 Dec 202401:15:18

(Speaking with Nancy was such a highlight of this year. In addition to all we discussed in this raw, beautiful, candid, downright funny conversation, I'm glad to report that subsequent to when we spoke, Nancy was able to "ring the bell" as a cancer survivor!)

 

We’re joined by author, essayist, investigative journalist and the gloriously feral Nancy French. We discuss Nancy's new memoir, GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY, which involves deeply personal topics such as her experiences with sexual abuse, faith struggles, being a ghostwriter for politicians, and increasing political turmoil. Nancy also talks about navigating her long-standing personal and professional relationships amid the Trumpification of the Republican party; how the party has drifted away from folks like her even though Nancy’s positions and philosophy haven’t changed; and how her Christian faith has played a significant role in the journey. We also candidly explore the dynamics of interpersonal relationships, the complexities in religious institutions, and being resilient in troubled times.

 

Nancy French is a five-time New York Times bestselling author, essayist, investigative journalist, and storyteller at the Moth. She’s published op-eds and articles in the Washington Post, USA Today, Time and many other publications. Her investigative journalism into abuse at Kanakuk Kamps appeared on the front page of USA Today. Nancy is also the co-author of The After Party with friend of the pod Curtis Chang and she’s the author of the new memoir GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY.

 

01:20 Nancy French: A Brief Introduction; 

05:14 The Art of Ghostwriting; 

09:53 The Journey of Discovery and Art; 

13:45 The Struggles of Writing Your Own Story; 

19:38 The Challenges of Confronting Past Abuse; 

31:10 The Power of Love and Relationships; 

37:47 The Struggle with Faith and the Church; 

40:25 Reflections on Christian Faith and History; 

41:16 Experiences of Divine Intervention; 

42:07 Discussing Faith with Non-Believers; 

46:19 Political Writing and Its Consequences; 

50:12 The Shift in Political Identity (Despite Not Having Changed); 

52:11 The Impact of Political Polarization; 

55:34 The Power of Human Connection Across Differences

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social

 

www.nancyfrench.com

 

GHOSTED on Amazon - https://amzn.to/49tSNzO

 

www.threads.net/@nancyjanefrench

Best of 2024 | Bill Kristol: Director of Defending Democracy Together and Editor at Large at The Bulwark27 Dec 202401:02:18

Yeah, this ages well. Seriously... This conversation with Bill Kristol was from April of this year. Some of the discussion applied to that moment in time (eg. bemoaning the Mets tepid start to the 2024 season); but much of it still applies even given the outcome of the latest election. With that, here are the notes from one of our "Best of 2024" conversations...

 

Are REPUBLICAN VOTERS AGAINST TRUMP our greatest BULWARK against authoritarianism and the most significant constituency in DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER? (Dad jokes about the future of our Constitutional Republic aside...) Bill Kristol shares his thoughts on the state of our democracy and how this year's consequential election is shaping up.

 

We're on YouTube! 

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So glad to be joined again by Bill Kristol, Editor at Large of The Bulwark; Director of Defending Democracy Together; and Host of Conversations with Bill Kristol. We took time to reflect on Bill’s early political experiences, including his roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, his academic career, and his work with the Project for the Republican Future. We also touch on our shared passion for baseball, particularly for the New York Mets! We then delve into Bill’s critical views on the Trump presidency, the rise of authoritarianism, and the importance of defending liberal democracy. He shares insights into his efforts with the Republican Voters Against Trump initiative and the importance of bipartisan engagement in preserving democratic norms. We then discuss the impact of social and political polarization, the significance of grassroots activism, and the need for open, exploratory dialogue across ideological divides. We wind down with Bill emphasizing the resilience of the American political system and the potential for positive change through collective action and constructive discourse.

 

00:52 Meet Bill Kristol: A Storied Career in Politics; 

01:58 Baseball and Politics: A Personal Connection; 

04:09 Navigating Political Ideologies: From Youth to Present; 

05:41 The Evolution of Political Beliefs and the Impact of External Changes; 

10:18 The Threat of Illiberalism and the Defense of Liberal Democracy; 

15:21 Exploring the Dangers of Trumpism and Authoritarian Tendencies; 

26:56 The Role of Intellectuals and Voters in Shaping Political Futures; 

33:59 The Impact of Testimonials from Former Trump Voters; 

34:53 The Strategy Behind Targeting Swing Voters; 

35:54 Challenges and Strategies in Political Advertising; 

36:55 Building a Broad Coalition Against Trump; 

42:09 The Role of Money in Politics and Campaign Strategies; 

44:34 Fostering Careers and Nurturing Talent in Politics; 

50:43 The Evolution of Political Discourse and Outreach; 

54:36 Final Thoughts on Political Engagement and Hope

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social and www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.thebulwark.com

 

www.defendingdemocracytogether.org

 

bsky.app/profile/billkristolbulwark.bsky.social

Best of 2024 | Dr. Francis S. Collins: Are science and faith at odds? Or two different ways of understanding God's creation?23 Dec 202401:11:36

Are science and belief in God incompatible? Dr. Francis S. Collins, renowned for having led the Human Genome Project and the former Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), says science and faith are two different ways of understanding God's creation.

 

We dove right in and had so much to explore!

  • His father's folk music collection that is a true national treasure; 
  • Connecting music with the mysteries of the universe both as a scientist and a person of faith; 
  • An encounter with a heart patient that led Dr. Collins to his faith in Christ; 
  • How he got the job to lead the Human Genome Project (no, it wasn't an answer to an ad on Craigslist); 
  • Leading the NIH during a worldwide pandemic; 
  • The ongoing harrassment and even death threats he and his colleagues at NIH have had to endure; 
  • Struggling to understand the emergence of the anti-vax movement; 
  • Nurturing relationships with folks who hold very different views such as the late Christopher Hitchens; 
  • The BioLogos Foundation; 
  • And the most interesting book club in the world!

 

Dr. Francis Collins is the former director of the National Institutes of Health. And was the longest serving director of NIH — spanning 12 years and three (very different) presidencies. Dr. Collins is a physician-geneticist noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the international Human Genome Project, which culminated in April 2003 with the completion of a finished sequence of the human DNA instruction book. Dr. Collins' research laboratory has discovered a number of important genes, including those responsible for cystic fibrosis, Huntington's disease, a familial endocrine cancer syndrome and, most recently, genes for type 2 diabetes among others. Dr. Collins was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in November 2007 and the National Medal of Science in 2009.

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social

 

biologos.org/

The Election Whisperer: Katie Harbath on Ten Years Inside Facebook and Panicking Responsibly17 Feb 202601:06:05

How do we balance free speech, platform accountability, and democratic integrity when technology moves faster than policy?

In this episode, Katie Harbath, the "election whisperer to the tech industry," joins Corey Nathan to discuss the impossible trade-offs facing social media platforms, the evolving landscape of AI and misinformation, and what it means to "panic responsibly" in an era of rapid technological change.

Katie spent a decade at Facebook as a policy director managing elections globally, navigating crises from Cambridge Analytica to the 2020 election. Now as CEO of Anchor Change and Chief Global Affairs Officer at Duco, she helps organizations understand how the internet shapes democracy.

The conversation explores how to use AI ethically in creative work, the challenges of content moderation at scale, why community notes might be better than fact-checking, and how individuals can reclaim agency over their information diets. Katie also shares her personal evolution on free speech, the difference between distribution and moderation, and why the next four years will require all of us to find new ways to ground ourselves.

Calls to Action

✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters.

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✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Key Takeaways
  • Panic Responsibly: Don't be paralyzed by fear of AI or technological change. Take agency over how you use these tools while considering ethical guardrails
  • Impossible Trade-offs: Platform decisions involve choices between imperfect options with unknowable long-term consequences (see: Cambridge Analytica stemming from 2010's Open Graph)
  • AI Ethics in Practice: Katie uses AI to organize thoughts, identify themes, spot repetitive phrases, and show line edits; but keeps human input and output central to the creative process
  • Free Speech Evolution: Even tech policy experts are evolving their views. Katie has moved toward greater support for free speech while recognizing the importance of context and consequences
  • Distribution vs. Moderation: The key question isn't just what stays on platforms, but what gets amplified by algorithms. Distribution decisions matter as much as content decisions
  • Community Notes > Fact-Checking: Collaborative, crowdsourced context may be more effective and less politically fraught than centralized fact-checking operations
  • You Have Agency: Individuals control which platforms they use, what content they engage with, and what news sources they consume. These choices train algorithms and shape experiences
  • Election Infrastructure Improved: Despite continued challenges, election officials have made significant strides since 2020 in security, preparedness, and collaboration with tech platforms
  • Social Media: Mixed Bag: Platforms have given voice to candidates and causes that would otherwise struggle for attention, but have also created new challenges for democracy
  • Information Audit: Katie recommends doing an annual "news audit" to ensure your media consumption aligns with your values and includes diverse perspectives across the political spectrum
About Our Guest

Katie Harbath is an award-winning global leader at the intersection of technology, policy, and elections. She spent a decade at Facebook as a Public Policy Director, where she built and led the teams that managed elections globally, navigating some of the platform's most challenging moments.

Today, Katie is the CEO of Anchor Change, a technology consulting firm, and Chief Global Affairs Officer at Duco. Described as the "election whisperer to the tech industry," she helps organizations navigate the complex intersections of technology, democracy, and policy.

Katie is writing a book about her experiences in tech policy and is a sought-after voice on issues of platform governance, content moderation, AI ethics, and the future of democracy in the digital age. She is known for her pragmatic approach to impossible trade-offs and her catchphrase "panic responsibly" when it comes to emerging technologies.

Links and Resources Katie Harbath's Work: Connect on Social Media

Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials...

Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners

Thanks to Pew Research Center for making today’s conversation possible. Gratitude as well to Village Square for coming alongside us in this work and helping foster better civic dialogue.

Links and additional resources:

Proud members of The Democracy Group

Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.

Best of 2024 | Tom Nichols on Harris-Walz vs. Trump-Vance... and as a special bonus, some Robert DeNiro Jeopardy!20 Dec 202400:59:56

(This was one of my favorite conversations of 2024 partly because Tom and I both did our best Robert DeNiro impressions toward the end.)

Let's talk candidly about why Gov. Josh Shapiro of PA wasn't chosen as Kamala Harris's running mate. Let's also assess the merits and potential drawbacks of Gov. Tim Walz of MN as the Democratic VP candidate. Oh, and while we're at it, how's that J.D. Vance pick working out for the Trump campaign?

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

We're joined by Tom Nichols, staff writer at The Atlantic and professor emeritus of national-security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College, to discuss all of this and more! We get into Tom's background in a working-class family, his educational journey, and his career in academia. Tom also discusses his views on democracy, international security, and challenges in contemporary politics. We get to reflect on Tom's Greek Orthodox faith and how it shapes his beliefs, while contrasting his temperamentally and philosophically conservative outlook with the current stance of the Republican Party. Additionally, Tom offers insights on the importance of a balanced media diet in today's political landscape. And since Tom is a 5x Jeopardy champion, we do a little Robert DeNiro-inspired Jeopardy at the end!

 

03:30 Tom Nichols' Background and Upbringing

07:49 Influence of Church and Community

10:49 Orthodox Christianity and Politics

19:51 Political Philosophy and Conservatism

25:49 Discussion on Israel and U.S. Politics

32:56 Debating the Choice Between Shapiro and Walz

33:49 Tim Walz: The Normal Guy in Politics

36:24 Tim Walz's Background and Achievements

40:09 JD Vance: A Controversial Figure

46:40 Kamala Harris's Electability and Political Evolution

53:29 Media Consumption and Political Discourse

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

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It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social

 

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/daily

 

www.threads.net/@radiofreetom

Rabbi Sharon Brous, Founder of IKAR and Author of the AMEN EFFECT: Ancient Wisdom to Mend Our Broken Hearts and World17 Dec 202401:06:54

“All who entered the Temple Mount entered by the right, circled to the right and exited by the left, except for one to whom something had happened, who entered and circled to the left...” (Mishnah Middot)

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

Rabbi Sharon Brous, the founding rabbi of IKAR and author of THE AMEN EFFECT, delves into ancient Jewish rituals, the role of pain in human connections, and the transformative power of compassion and curiosity. Through heartfelt stories and profound insights, she explores the importance of staying engaged with those who challenge us and how communities can support each other in moments of deep sorrow and joy. The discussion also touches upon inclusivity in Jewish worship, dealing with vicarious trauma, navigating hard conversations such as differences over what's happening in Israel and the results of the U.S. election, and the significance of asking and truly listening to Malakh: "tell me about your heart."

 

00:52 Introducing Rabbi Sharon Brous

01:21 Exploring the Mishnah Middot

04:05 The Power of Ritual and Compassion

06:53 Personal Reflections on Sin and Mental Health

11:49 The Role of Community and Vulnerability

17:41 Balancing Leadership and Personal Burdens

24:22 Innovative Practices at IKAR

36:53 Challenges and Changes in Jewish Leadership

38:47 Navigating Differences in a Diverse Congregation

39:53 The Power of Curiosity and Compassion

47:05 The Importance of Staying at the Table

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

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It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

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Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social

 

ikar.org

 

ikar.org/the-amen-effect/the-big-idea

How should we respond to the election? Fight? Surrender? Or is there another way?12 Dec 202400:54:05

How should we respond to the election? Fight? Surrender? Or is there another way? Let's "Meet the Majority" and see if we can figure it out!

 

We're on YouTube! 

https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

 

As part of our "Meet the Majority" series, this is a candid conversation on ideological differences, election surprises, and friendship. In this episode, Corey sits down with his long-time friend Brandon to explore their differing political views and the implications of recent elections. Corey explains the importance of maintaining relationships and having open dialogue despite political differences. Brandon, a staunch Republican, shares his life story, professional background, and family history. He discusses his views on national security, the shortcomings of the far left, and the influence of Trumpism on American politics and the church. Both Corey and Brandon delve into the complexities of being in the political middle today, their concerns about the future, and the need for more constructive discourse. The conversation highlights the importance of listening and understanding different perspectives to foster better relationships and navigate the current political landscape.

 

00:49 Meet the Majority Series: Background and Purpose

03:42 Brandon's Background and Political Views

07:19 Discussion on Liberalism and Conservatism

11:34 The Middle Ground in Politics

17:11 Concerns About Trump and the Future of the Republican Party

26:28 Impact of Trumpism on the American Church

28:24 Debating Presidential Impact and Religious Influence

30:26 Supreme Court and the Conservative Legal Movement

33:10 Navigating Political Differences and Building Relationships

37:25 Reflecting on Political Identity and Middle Ground

50:08 Concluding Thoughts and Future Conversations

 

We're on Patreon! Join the community: 

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It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 

https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social

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