Thank you, thank you, thank you...on we go!

SOUP is taking a break for the summer, and will be back in September 2021.

Hiking! I'm joined by Ian Sharman for a deep dive into training for hiking in ultras.

Soup to nuts on our current understanding of recovery from one of the scientific leaders in the field. Dr. Peake is a colleague of Dr. Neubauer, who was on last episode (#48), discussing the immune system in recovery. Today we broaden the discussion and talk about the other knowns and unknowns on the topic.

Think the immune system just helps to keep us from getting sick or recover from illness? Think again...

Dr. Andrew Murray is a Scottish ultra-distance runner, family medicine practitioner, and author of 'Running Your Best: Some Science and Medicine' and 'Running Beyond Limits: The Adventures of an Ultra Marathon Runner'. Today we sit down for a chat about best practices in staying healthy and making physical activity part of your life for better training gains.

Legendary geneticist Claude Bouchard, PhD joined me for a pragmatic discussion. In discussion of genetics, the focus is often on the genetic outliers and extremes of potential. While that's always fun, today's discussion is focused on what we know that is relevant to you. Dr. Bouchard is THE living legend in the field of the genetic underpinnings of responses to exercise; his group literally invented the field that seeks to understand variability in exercise responses to training at the genetic level.

Author of 'The Ultra Mindset', Travis Macy, sits down with us to discuss the book and share his insights into mental side of our sport.

This week I interviewed Bob Kenefick PhD and we outline a strategy for you to develop your approach to staying properly hydrated - actionable info!

In this week’s episode, I sat down with Mike Wardian. He's one of the most prolific runners on planet Earth. As this episode airs, he’s traveling the world to complete seven marathons on seven continents in seven days. He’s a font of information on how to be successful while making running a lifestyle. And, yes, he actually has a ‘regular job’. How does he do it? Listen and learn.

Everything you need to know for optimal protein nutrition to maximize your training and adaption. Dr. van Loon joins us from the Netherlands where he leads a large and outstanding research group. He's the world's leading expert on this topic. How much, when, what about sex differences, what about aging, right after training, what about over night...we cover it all!

Everything you need to know about the fundamentals of biomechanics as they relate to injury in runners. Lots of actionable info in this one!

We dive into Dr. Kram's research on biomechanics and energy utilization, running economy, and the things you need to pay attention to as well as what you don't.

How much running and how much overall exercise training should you be doing to prepare yourself for ultra-marathons or other major endurance adventures?

Show page: https://scienceofultra.com/podcasts/140

A comprehensive conversation with elite ultra runner Stephanie Howe Violett, PhD where we talk about her year of injuries, her approaches to injury recovery and to training, and her expertise (PhD) in sports nutrition.

What do you mean when you use the word 'training'? Today, we start a project, together, to create a training framework.

Recent research findings from research at the Western States Endurance Run on gastrointestinal distress.

Findings from recent research on recovery practices and their effectiveness for ultra marathon finishers.

The myth of adrenal fatigue.

Western States champion (2015), Magdalena Boulet, joins me for an amazing episode. Learn all the ins and outs of her training, racing approaches, nutrition strategies, and much more!

Roundtable discussion with three coaches (Paul Lind, Andrew Simmons, Ty Draney) recorded on location, including audience questions.

Ian Torrence has complete nearly 200 ultra distance events and has won approximately 25% of them. He has important advice to give regarding longevity in the sport and approaches to DNFing that you need to hear if you want to be successful in this sport for years to come.

You are an endurance runner. So, what's the point in doing high intensity interval training (HIIT)? Whether you are new to endurance running or a seasoned veteran, you will benefit from HIIT. We explore how, what, when, and why in this episode.

Learn how to prepare for performance in the heat and how heat acclimation can actually improve your performance in moderate temperatures.

If you only have one training pace, this should be it.

https://scienceofultra.com/podcasts/139

Ben Levine, MD is among the legends of exercise cardiology and altitude physiology in sport performance. It is an honor to have him join the Ultra Clan for this amazing interview, packed with heaps of evidence-based, applicable, relevant, and actionable knowledge.

Today, I shine the spotlight on Mathew Laye, PhD. He is a scientist, coach, and athlete. As winner of the Rocky Raccoon 100 miler, along with his scientific and coaching background, he brings a rare mix of all three areas of expertise in ultra marathon training and racing to the show.

A double episode. Interviews with cardiologists Larry Creswell M.D. and Aaron Baggish M.D. They are at the forefront of heart health in endurance athletes. Is ultra marathon running okay for your heart? Listen and learn.

My guest today has had a life of endurance, persistence, adventure and exploration that we can all learn from. My guest is Terri Schneider. She was a professional triathlete for nine years, has raced multi-day eco-adventures around the planet, and is an ultra marathon veteran. We explore her life of endurance pursuits through the lens of her recent book, Dirty Inspirations: Lessons from the trenches of extreme endurance sports.

This week, we explore the ins and outs of economical running. Learn what you can do to improve yours and to what extent it will make a difference in your performance.

My guest today is Michael Gervais, PhD. He has been described as an industry visionary. Dr. Gervais is a licensed psychologist who focuses most of his time on people at the "top of their game", including the NFL's Seattle Seahawks, NBA players, Olympians, military personnel and corporate leaders. While spending years in the trenches of high-stakes circumstances, he has developed clarity for the tools that allow people to pursue their potential.

My guest today is John VonHof. He literally wrote the book on foot care for the athlete, Fixing Your Feet. You can learn more from him on his website, http://www.fixingyourfeet.com

Today we dig into all the essential components of good foot care, from shoe fitting to blister care. We wrap up by defining the essential features of a good minimalist foot care kit for your next run or adventure.

My guest this week is Max King. He won the 2011 World Mountain Running Championships and the 2014 IAU 100 km World Championship. He’s won numerous national titles at distances ranging from half marathons to ultra marathons and he was named U.S. national mountain runner of the year in 2011. He is a back-to-back winner of the Warrior Dash world championship, winning in 2014 and 2015. Also, in 2014 he tackled his first 100 mile race, the legendary and extremely competitive Western States 100 mile Endurance Run where he finished 4th.

An incredible episode on psychological fatigue. Is fatigue in ultra endurance performance mostly in your mind? What can you do to stay psychologically motivated to keep going? Listen and learn on today's episode with the pioneering experts on this topic.

1. What are the most common misconceptions you see in the running community with respect to barefoot vs shod running?
2. Based on all your research, are their compelling reasons to consider barefoot or minimalist running from an endurance performance standpoint?
3. Is there any reason to think that someone running ultra marathons would perform better or be less injury prone by switching to barefoot or minimalist running if fully and properly adapted.
4. Should runners pay attention to their foot strike or should they just let their bodies do what’s comfortable and allow natural biomechanical adjustments to develop without conscious input?

Kelly McGonigal, PhD understands the power of mindset and movement better than anyone.

Show page: https://scienceofultra.com/podcasts/138

1. What are the most common mistakes Dr. Burke sees ultra endurance athletes making with their overall nutrition? And, what should you be doing?
2. What would she say to an ultra endurance athlete interested in training and performing at their best today, regarding fat adapting diets?

1. What are the definition(s) of fatigue?
2. How does ‘fatigue’ differ from ‘tired’ and where do they overlap physiologically.
3. What are the causes of fatigue in extreme cases or high intensity: occlusion of blood flow, max sprint, constant effort at ~maximal lactate steady state (fatigue in about an hour or two)?
4. When we talk about VO2max, we generally consider the cardiovascular system - delivery of oxygen-rich blood - as the major limiting factor based on the knowledge that isolated muscle (like in single leg lifts) can consume more oxygen per 100 grams than that same tissue does at whole body VO2max. Is there a role of the cardiovascular system in exhaustion if we maintain fluid and electrolyte homeostasis?
5. Muscle micro-trauma is likely to be a major cause of fatigue in ultras. First, what exactly is the muscle trauma and damage that is occurring during ultra marathons? Second, is this likely to be a major source of fatigue?
6. What is the physiological basis of cardiac drift and does it have a role in fatigue or exhaustion?
7. Fatigue is very complicated when we consider running ultra marathons. What can we say are likely contributors? Are there any factors that might be contributors in higher intensity effort that are not likely to contribute to fatigue in an ultra marathon?
8. What do we know about aging an endurance performance relevant to fatigue?
9. In longer events, we are likely to become relatively depleted of stored glycogen before the end of the race. If our event lasts hours…perhaps many hours…longer, and we can consume and absorb 60-90 g of carbohydrates per hour - will substrate availability contribute to fatigue even if we slow down enough to match energy intake with utilization? In other words, is there anything about being in the depleted state for a long period of time (muscle cells contracting with little internal carbohydrate) that shifts efficiency so as to contribute to fatigue?
10. What do we know about the nature of systemic feedback signals to the brain that may contribute to fatigue/exhaustion in ultras?
11. What do we know about the brain and motivational fatigue in events that require moderate effort for many hours, over night, and some times even multi-day?
12. What role does sleep deprivation play in fatigue/exhaustion?

1. What are the most common misunderstandings for misconceptions about fatigue and exhaustion in ultra endurance performance?
2. What are the 3-4 most important actions we can take to stave off fatigue or exhaustion in an ultra endurance event (what can we do about the most common causes)?

My guest today is Jennifer Pharr Davis. She is an author, speaker, and a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year.

Jennifer is among the most well known of American long distance hikers. She holds the record for the women’s FKT for a thru-hike of the Appalachian trail; a record which was the overall outright record for several years and fell by only 3 hrs 12 minutes in the summer of 2015. She has hiked over 12,000 miles on six different continents, including thru-hikes on the Pacific Crest Trail, the Appalachian Trail (three times), the Colorado Trail, the Long Trail in Vermont, the Bibbulmun Track in Australia, and numerous trails in Europe and South America, including the Tour du Mont Blanc, which ultra marathon runners will be familiar with.

Connect with Jennifer:
1) On the trail!
2) Facebook: Jennifer Pharr Davis
3) Twitter and Instagram: JenPharrDavis
4) Her company: BlueRidgeHikingCo.com
5) Books: Becoming Odyssa and Called Again: A Story of Love and Triumph

She answered many questions on this in depth interview, including:

You hiked that AT in 2005, 2008, and the overall record setting year 2011. Your first women’s record of the trail in 2008 was a bit over 57 days; in 2011 you destroyed that record and did the trail in a bit over 46 days. How did that enormous improvement come about?

Would you describe the demands of a long-distance thru-hike? Granted that weather can have a big impact, what does a ‘typical’ day look like for a long distance thru hiker?

Are you ever running/jogging during a thru-hike or is it all hiking?

Tell us about your training for a thru-hike. In your experience, would a 3-4+ week thru-hike be good training for ultra marathons of 100 miles or longer?

How do you handle sleep deprivation, or functioning on little sleep, for weeks on end? Tell us about your nutrition for a thru-hike.

Tell us about your foot care on a thru-hike.

You wrote an article recently for the New York Times for which you explored the topic of sex differences, or lack thereof, in ultra distance events. Tell us about that.

Tell us about the psychological demands of a major thru-hike.

As an exceptional, experienced, and accomplished ultra-endurance athlete, you have surely had some very dark moments (mentally).
Would you take us to back to your darkest experience, tell us that story and how you handled it?

We wrapped up with some advice for ultra marathon runners interested in tackling a thru-hike.

William is a 62 year old British and Scottish international athlete and has set 160 ultra distance running records (from 30 miles on the track to 3100 miles/ 5000 kms on the road) at World, British and Scottish level including age-group records.

1. On a daily basis, what are the carbohydrate needs of an ultra endurance athlete?
2. How many calories can most people digest and absorb per hour when running?
3. What is the fate of consumed carbohydrate relative to stores while exercising?
4. What are the key factors to be considered with respect to the carbohydrates during a long event that may last 24 hrs?
5. Can we predict when relative glycogen depletion might occur in an ultra marathon?
6. What should we consider when we are choosing specific high-carbohydrate foods?
7. What are the key issues to consider relative to the timing of carbohydrate intake prior to, during, and following training workouts?
8. What about timing of carbohydrate consumption for a race event?
9. Is glycemic index of a given food different when running vs at rest?
10. For those who don’t like sweet tastes while exercising or late in races, what are the sources of simple carbs that don’t taste sweet?
11. Are there data, or any good reason to expect, that any aspect of carbohydrate digestion/optimal sources/etc. will change over the course of an ultra marathon? Does carbohydrate physiology change when we go way beyond the better understood distance of marathon? 
12. Is consumption of foods that contain protein, fat, or fiber a concern in light of effects on gastric emptying?
13. When we consume carbohydrate during a run but prior to reaching very low levels of glycogen in muscle and liver, are those calories used more/less/equally to stored muscle glycogen?
14. Can carbohydrate consumption keep us from reaching a muscle and/or liver glycogen depleted state?
15. What is the relation between carbohydrates (type, source, complexity?) and likelihood of GI distress?
16. Tell us about the topic of ‘fat adaptation’ to spare glycogen. From my reading and understanding, there is no good evidence that fat adaptation provides any benefit to endurance performance and it may even impair higher intensity performance (like going uphill) by not ‘sparing’ glycogen but rather by ‘impairing’ glycogen utilization…that apparent sparing may actually be a side effect of impaired utilization.
17. How does caffeine ingestion interact with endogenous and exogenous substrate utilization?
18. GI distress late in a race makes it difficult for some people to retain any calories they might swallow. Tell us about this interesting topic of ‘mouth sensing’ and what it might do for us in that situation.

My guest today is Cody Lind. He's sponsored by Scott and, at age 20, is a rising start in the ultra marathon community. He set five course records and placed second in the U.S. Sky Running Series.

We talk about his training, racing, and his perspectives on running. From big weekly mileage to big weekly vertical, Cody trains hard. Learn about his special connection to the Western States 100 mile Endurance Run and what it takes for even a gifted runner to do well in Sky Running in the U.S.

1. What are the overall (daily) protein needs of endurance athletes, and will this differ for ultra marathon runners?
2. Does it matter if we get it throughout the day vs mostly at one or two meals?
3. Does our daily average need to be daily or can it average over days?  
4. Is there a protein hunger, per se, that is reliable and will we self regulate sufficiently?
5. What is protein used for in an endurance athlete? How much protein is used for energy /ATP?
6. What do we know, or can we expect about protein needs and use during and following an ultra?
7. Is protein immediately before, during, or immediately after training handled differently?
8. Is it beneficial to consume protein immediately after a training bout?
9. Are there adverse effects of excess protein?
10. Are all proteins equal?

• What advice might he give to an ultra marathon runner concerned with their protein intake?

1. Where do lactate and lactic acid come from - how is it produced?
2. What happens to lactate / lactic acid once it is produced - what is it’s fate?
3. We go through some common statements and talk about what’s correct and what is not:
   • "Lactic acid build up is what causes muscle burn."
   • "Lactic acid stays in muscle and causes soreness."
   • "Doing some sort of stretching, massage, or exercise will ‘wash out’ lactic acid from a prior training session."
   • "Now the big one: lactic acid build up causes fatigue."
4. The ‘lactate threshold’ has had many definitions. These are as disparate as the onset of blood lactic acidosis to the maximal lactate steady state - very different exercise intensities with regard to endurance performance. Dr. Gladden gives us a brief history and explanation.
5. Gas exchange is a different topic but many attempts have been made to correlate gas exchange thresholds with lactate thresholds and, ultimately, performance capacity thresholds. This is a big topic area, but Dr. Gladden briefly relates gas exchange concepts/thresholds to definitions of lactate thresholds.
6. We learn the answer to: Is it necessary to exercise at or above the lactate threshold (whichever definition one uses) to increase it or can sub-LT exercise improve the LT?
7. There is controversy over the source of H+ (hydrogen ions; protons) in exercise ‘acidosis’. Does it come from lactic acid, splitting of ATP, or some other source?
8. While the maximal lactate steady state is at least a rough idea of the work load that can be sustained for a ‘long time’, ultra marathons last 4-5 hours on the short side and 24-36 hours in the longer events. How long can the workload of MLSS really be sustained even if every other aspect of performance (hydration, core temp, etc.) could be maintained perfectly?
9. If lactate / lactic acid doesn’t cause fatigue and the MLSS is not sustainable for ultra marathon distances, to what extent is lactate / lactic acid relevant for ultra marathon training or performance?

A primer on the why and how of sleep for endurance athletes with Amy Bender, PhD from the Centre for Sleep.

Show page: https://scienceofultra.com/podcasts/137

• Director of coaching for Carmichael Training Systems
• His list of athletes includes some of the biggest names in ultra running but also people like you and me.
• And, as an accomplished ultra runner himself, he knows first hand all that goes into performing in our sport.

1. In our last episode with Jason, episode 3, he explained his overall approach to training as transitioning from the least race-specific workouts to the most race-specific. A listener might question then, what is the reason for training short interval high intensity far out from a race at all? How does THAT benefit the overall plan and training?
2. There are proponents of always training below LT, basically training at race pace or lower year 'round. What are Jason's thoughts on that and what are the physiological mistakes in that approach? 
3. In the fall, many people are thinking about planning the following year. What should we consider as we question which races we sign up for, especially considering necessary recover time between races?
4. How does he monitor athletes for signs of over-fatigue on a short time frame and over the course of a season?
5. What is the physiological basis for doing recovery runs (rather than just taking the day off), and how should recovery runs be implemented in the course of a weekly plan?
6. How does Jason monitor for progress and improvements during a training plan and how does he know it’s time to move on to the next phase of training?
7. How long is the final phase (‘aerobic’) of training, optimally?
8. In that final phase, where we are most race specific, what would we expect to be a weekly volume (distance or time) relative to the goal race and how should that volume be distributed throughout a week?
9. Physiologically, why not divide the desired weekly volume evenly over 6 days, with one day off…what is the distinct benefit of more and less on different days in this final phase?
10. The big race is now a few weeks away. How do we balance loss of preparedness from tapering with race readiness - what is an effective tapering strategy for shorter ultras like 50k to longer events, like 100 miler?

1. What are the 2 most common mistakes that you see in athletes prior training when they first hire you?
2. What are the 3-4 key action items that we can put into practice right away to improve our training?

1. We start with a scenario: I go for a long run and during the run my urine is dark; after the run I try to replace fluids by drinking plenty the rest of the day and by bedtime, my urine is a much lighter color. But, when I wake up in the morning, it’s dark again…what’s going on?
2. What is the time-frame for fluid/electrolyte shifts among body compartments?
3. As we sweat, the fluid and electrolytes initially come from the interstitial compartment, specifically around the glands near the surface of our skin. As we run and sweat…what do we know about fluid shifts and electrolyte shifts across the three body compartments during prolonged exercise.
4. Another example, I run and take water = regular urination and clear; drink electrolyte solution = less urination and darker…we talked about the physiology of this in episode 4 but now, putting a real world example to the physiology, what’s happening to me in those cases?

1. Once in a while, we hear advocates of ‘bonk’ runs where one would purposefully dehydrate or go out without water. Clearly, this can be very very dangerous and we recommend against doing bonk runs. Out of curiosity, thought, is there any evidence that we can train in a way that will help us to perform better in a dehydrated or low volume state?
2. Keeping ALL ELSE EQUAL, what are the practical, relative effects of each of the following on sweating: long clothing vs short vs nothing (same material - just different coverage), tightness of clothing, type of material, color of material?
3. What are the definitions of adaptation, acclimation, acclimatization?
4. What does it mean to be acclimatized to a hot environment with respect to body fluids, hydration, and sweating?
5. What are best practices for preparing to race in warmer environments? Exercise, sauna,…?
6. What is the recommended protocol for acclimation to heat in preparation for an event?
7. What is the time-course of gain and loss of heat acclimation?
8. When we plan for thermal stress from the environment, we must consider not only temperature but other factors such as wind, sun exposure, and humidity. Let’s say that we have gone through the acclimation protocol. Is there a cut off temperature/thermal stress range, below which, there is no benefit to performance. How can we gauge whether going through the protocol will be of benefit?
9. Specifically thinking about what’s going on during running: at what body temperature do we begin to sweat and where on the body do we sweat first, most, etc.?
10. Should we be concerned about gear placement (e.g., hydration pack vs waste belt) with regard to efficient sweating and cooling? E.g., would we expect any appreciable difference in fluid loss or cooling over time for someone wearing a hydration pack vs waist belt vs none or handheld bottles.
11. To what extent does carrying extra weight affect sweat loss due to the extra work of carrying it; e.g., as much as 5 lbs for some full hydration packs vs 1 lb or so for a full handheld. 

1. Genetics. There was a belief that genetics provide each person with a particular range of possibility and that there is a limit set by those genetics for each person such that one person’s maximal potential may be below another’s lower spectrum. Is that correct and to what degree do genetics compare with training for our endurance capacity.
2. What is the time-course for the various adaptations: capillarity, mitochondrial capacity, power, neuromuscular control, etc.? [for clarity, capillarity is the density of capillary blood vessels within skeletal muscle - which is important for oxygen and nutrient delivery ; mitochondrial capacity is the sum of the tools a cell uses for generating ATP while utilizing oxygen] - it will vary based on the volume and intensity but we talk generally about the components.
3. What components continue to develop over years of training and what components of adaptation to endurance are maximized, if any, relatively early (like in the first year or so of regular serious training) - e.g., we don’t continue increasing capillarity indefinitely.
4. Training prescriptions are often designed so that a given hard day of training is maximized while still low enough in density so that the next training day (perhaps 2 days later) can be completed with equivalent volume/intensity. How do we optimize this - there is a spectrum - steady runs every day vs very hard one day that takes many days to recover from…how do we plan for the balance so that we are making the fastest, steady gains in endurance capacity?
5. Some prescription plans cycle three weeks increasing in density (volume or intensity or combination), then back off for a week, then start over with a little increase. Graphically this might look like three steps up and one down, repeat. How does this approach compare to backing off slightly in those three weeks and not stepping down in the fourth week - evening out the 4 weeks so that there is a persistent increase in training density over time. Any benefit of one approach over the other?
6. Cross-training: physiologically useful or can we get more out of staying 100% sport specific and tailoring the workouts carefully (to avoid injury and boredom)?
7. When we evaluate training, the goal is to maximize adaptable stimulus and provide sufficient environment for adaptation. To what extent do easy days (recovery runs) layer onto the stimulus for adaptation: is there a stoking effect that keeps the stimulus maintained until the next tough workout OR do recovery runs somehow promote a more beneficial adaptation environment - where do recovery runs sit in the balance equation of stimulate/adapt? …what do we know about the specific mechanisms of the benefits of easy days (recovery runs) between hard workouts?

1. For an endurance runner with capacity X or Y, what is the minimum stimulus required to maintain what they’ve developed; surely this varies for the different components from neuromuscular coordination and control, through muscle bioenergetics…but what do we know about maintaining capacity?
2. Trail running, and many or most ultra marathons are on trails, require both endurance and an endurance in power - due to the elevation changes, both up and down hills. Are these capacities different from a muscle tissue perspective…flat ground endurance vs mountain hills endurance? Do those capacities detrain differently?

1. Promoting recovery while resisting losses is the fundamental issue at play in the period called tapering. Whatever you call it, it is the final days or maybe weeks as we approach a key race or event. What are the best practices for tapering for endurance events - what works, what doesn’t?
2. Recovery required from races - 50k-100mile+ all can take a substantial toll on muscle tissue both structurally and functionally. When muscle is trashed - not a lot has been studied in the specific context of ultra marathons but we do know about repeated eccentric loading [eccentric is contraction while a muscle is lengthening - as is required of the quadriceps while running downhill] - what elements of muscle function recover the fastest and what takes the longest to recover?
3. Considerations for races in quick succession (e.g., 100k-100mile 4-6 weeks apart, or 50k 2-3 weeks apart)?

1. What are the biggest mistakes that Dr. Trappe sees distance runners make in their tapering plans?
2. What three key messages of advice does Dr. Trappe have for ultra marathon runners with regard to tapering?