Explore every episode of the podcast REWORK
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| The itch for a new version | 05 Nov 2025 | 00:23:08 | |
In software development, there are updates, and then there are complete overhauls. This week, Jason Fried joins Kimberly Rhodes to talk about how the team decides when it’s time to rebuild from the ground up. They dig into the transition between versions, how customer feedback fits in, and even drop a few hints about what’s coming in Basecamp 5. Key Takeaways
Links and Resources | |||
| Fizzy Q's and A's | 29 Oct 2025 | 00:26:36 | |
With the launch of Fizzy getting closer, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson use this episode to answer listener questions about the upcoming product. They talk about how Fizzy and Basecamp will coexist, why aesthetic design choices matter, and which AI features are actually worth using. Key Takeaways
Links and Resources | |||
| Building with LLMs, Finding a Co-founder & Other Listener Questions | 20 Aug 2025 | 00:25:54 | |
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to field a fresh round of listener questions. They share perspectives on when coding assistance makes sense, finding a co-founder to compliment your skills, business succession planning, and more. Key Takeaways:
Links and Resources: | |||
| Shape Up Principle: Writing a Pitch | 30 Aug 2023 | 00:26:48 | |
If you've been following the Rework podcast, you're undoubtedly acquainted with the concept of Shape Up, a cornerstone of 37signals' approach to product development. In this episode, we delve into a core component of Shape Up: the delicate art of crafting a pitch. Join Rework host Kimberly Rhodes as she sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson for a conversation encompassing everything from the essence and purpose of a pitch to the step-by-step process of constructing a finely tuned pitch. Listen in as Jason and David walk listeners through Shape Up's five-point compass for an effective pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos, plus insight on how to use “tracer bullets” to manage the balance between scope and execution while avoiding the pitfalls along the way. Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces listeners to Shape Up, and the topic of the day: "writing a pitch" for product development. [00:34] - Jason shares what a pitch is and its purpose in product development. [02:16] - David emphasizes a crucial counterpoint to common practices at most organizations, highlighting the two common pitfalls. [04:05] - The key innovation of a Shape Up and the importance of avoiding extremes of over-specification or vague one-liners in your pitch. [05:44] - Jason shares who can write a pitch, and the distinction between throwing out ideas and formalized pitches. [07:47] - David introduces listeners to the concept of "framing" before pitching. [09:28] - Why it’s vital to distinguish between identifying a problem and crafting a pitch. [11:46] - Pitched solutions are more about direction than detailed execution—the true execution and implementation are the responsibility of the assigned team. [13:06] - Pitching is a powerful tool for attracting and nurturing independent decision-makers. [14:54] - The magic of deferring decisions until the implementation stage. [17:21] - Shape Up's five key details for making a pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos. [18:23] - Rabbit holes: tempting yet treacherous distractions that offer the illusion of progress. Why unveiling these traps early is essential. [20:08] - David shares an example of a recent project using a time zone auto completer. [21:15] - A "science project" - the macro version of a rabbit hole. [22:41] - How a "tracer bullet" or "traceable" helps the 37signals team understand a project's feasibility and complexity leading through a small investment of information gathering. [24:29] - Why a "tracer bullet is crucial for prioritizing projects, using an example of using a tracer to explore billing in other currencies and how it provided clarity on the project scope and timeline. [25:40] - Next week's episode of Rework will focus on the "Betting Table" and how the decision-making process unfolds to choose which pitches to work on. In the meantime, | |||
| Are You an Underdog? We want to hear from you! | 23 Aug 2023 | 00:10:41 | |
In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to hear about the company's fondness for underdogs – small businesses that are scrappy, do more with less, and use creativity over big budgets. If this sounds like you, we'd love to hear from you and just might have you on an episode of Rework to share your story. Plus, the lucky winner will get one year of Basecamp Pro Unlimited on us! Here's what you need to know: How to Enter
See the official contest rules for more details.
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| Software Has Bugs | 09 Aug 2023 | 00:27:01 | |
Bugs are an inevitable part of complex software and aiming for complete bug-free perfection is not only unrealistic, but it hinders progress and product delivery. In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to discuss why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development. Listen in as David and Jason offer a behind-the-scenes look at the two-tiered approach to handling bugs in their software at 37signals and their triage plan for determining which should be fixed, when, and by whom.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and shares the topic for discussion, that bugs in software are normal. [00:27] - David shares why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development. [01:18] - Bugs, a natural side effect of software. [02:08] - What makes users abandon a piece of software (hint: it’s usually not a few bugs)? [05:26] - The two-tiered (non-emotional) approach to handling the vast spectrum of bugs in complicated pieces of software. [06:13] - When is a “bug” not a “bug”? [07:00] - Handling customer expectations without screwing up your product roadmap. [07:52] - You need a filter: the double-edged sword of founders operating in customer support. [08:32] - David shares a behind-the-scenes look triage at 37signals. [09:31] - The novel QA approach of the Toyota production line that 37signals tries to emulate. [11:37] - Jason shares the difference between the software and auto industries when fixing production problems. [12:37] - Yes, quality matters, but perfect never gets shipped. [14:30] - So how do we build useful, meaningful software? [15:21] - Breaking out of bad bug thought patterns so you can keep making software of value. [16:47] - Who oversees fixing the bugs at 37signals—the methods they use to determine what gets fixed, when, and by who. [20:08] - Cleaning up the tech debt: the vital importance of a measured, mature way of scheduling things. [21:09] - Don't create ****** software—it can’t be fixed. [23:55] – Jason discusses the idea an organization might be a bigger problem than just a bug in the software. [24:44] - Why you should never become "too big" to listen to your customers. [26:28] – For more, check out our Dev.37signals blog, where the 37signals developers write about some of their processes. [26:45] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are also available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Links and Resources: From David’s HEY World: Software has bugs. This is normal. | |||
| Rescuing A Project In Progress | 02 Aug 2023 | 00:23:50 | |
Knowing when you're in over your head and recognizing when a project has gone off the rails are crucial aspects of successful project management. But what are the red flags to watch for to prevent project derailment and how can you tell if a project is doomed to fail—even before you start? This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of project management and share valuable insights on how to stay focused, recognize red flags early on, and foster creative problem-solving in order to see a project through to completion. Listen in as they reveal the importance of finishing tasks before adding new ones, the pitfalls of multitasking, and the magic of setting clear endpoints. Plus they share Basecamp's tool for facilitating project monitoring without time-consuming meetings or derailing check-ins. Tune in for practical solutions for rescuing a project before it's too late!
Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and the topic of how to rescue a project when it’s gone off of the rails. [00:34] - Adding too much without finishing anything causes chaos. Jason shares the story behind his HEY World piece, Rescuing a project in progress, and shares the advice he gave his friend and how that applies to software development too. [02:49] - David shares the reasons behind the “Shape Up” approach at 37signals. [03:44] - You can’t do two things at once, every time you do you lose a little bit… [04:33] - Clearing the decks, wiping the slate clean, AND deciding what you are going to do with 100% of your time and how it helps you avoid shiny object syndrome. [05:20] - Why it's crucial for successful project management to avoid adding new tasks until all the existing unfinished ones are completed. [06:11] - How the magic of deciding when you’re done helps lower the risk of multitasking. [08:53] - In software development how can you tell things are going off the rails before it’s way too late? [09:17] - Jason shares why you need to be tuned into those feelings of being in over your head. [10:43] - David shares the major red flag moment for him that lets him know you’ve already failed before you even get started. [12:28] - “The longer, the more complicated the project, the more deceivingly specific people believe they can be when the opposite should actually be true.” [13:17] - Why you should never give yourself too much time for a project. [14:13] - The work-in-progress unified system in Denmark for tax assessments of properties that will never be finished (it’s already eight years overdue, and a billion dollars in). [15:53] - The easiest time to stay on track for a project. [16:29] - The other problem with long projects is that you get more time to not fix the problem. [17:17] - The curse of too much time and the sweet spot of creative problem-solving for any endeavor. [18:06] - X is the epicenter of the problem, start there and THEN see how much of Y and Z you get to before your (set in stone) ship deadline. [19:37] - Kimberly shares some people’s approach to rescuing projects and the difference at 37signals. [20:02] - Jason talks about the false sense of security that comes from knowing everything that’s going on. [21:12] - David shares how “sawing at the wheel” just makes you go slower. [21:57] - Are we done yet? Are we done? How constant interruptions slow projects down. | |||
| The Google Graveyard | 26 Jul 2023 | 00:26:11 | |
Unlike some tech giants that have notoriously pulled the plug on beloved products (remember Google's sudden discontinuation of Google Reader?), 37signals takes a vastly different approach with their pledge to support ALL of their products for the life of the internet. This week host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to explore the importance of longevity and trust in the SaaS industry. Drawing parallels to iconic brands like Porsche and Rolex, Jason and David take a deep dive into the challenges of product discontinuation and its impact on loyal customers. From Ta-da List to Basecamp, listen in as they reveal the principles that drive their support decisions and why longevity matters when building a brand that customers will rely on for decades. Check out the full video episode on YouTube Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the podcast and the topic of 37signals' core principle to maintain its products until the end of the internet. [00:36] - David discusses the risk of relying on big companies for software services, sharing the recent example of Google killing off its domain selling service. [02:06] - David explains why Google tends to abandon services leaving users to deal with the aftermath. [03:50] - How to become a legacy brand—like Porsche. [05:20] - David shares 37signal's philosophy to keep products running until the end of the internet (example: 17 years of maintaining Ta-da List). [06:08] - Short-term profitability vs. long-term commitment to customers: The moral obligation (and trade-off) of maintaining legacy products. [08:07] - Kimberly draws a parallel between the changing ownership of mortgages and software services. [08:58] - Brand building through commitment and longevity. [10:05] - Jason shares how 37signals prioritizes their commitment to customers with their core apps. [12:16] - The challenge of balancing the desires of existing customers with the need to appeal to new customers. [15:47] - The most profitable product in the 37signals portfolio. [17:37] - Kimberly asks about the decision-making process between creating new versions of Basecamp versus adding features to the existing ones. [18:02] - Some updates are like facelifts—others involve fundamental changes. [20:20] - The costs involved in maintaining apps like Ta-da List. [21:35] - David highlights the BIG return on investment in brand power that comes with the commitment to maintaining products. [23:12] - How the murder of Google Reader still impacts users' trust in new Google products a decade later. [24:06] - The high failure rate of venture-backed companies. [23:48] - Did you know full video of episodes of Rework are available? Check out our YouTube channel or find us on Twitter. As always, if you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. And don’t forget you can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Links and Resources:
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| Be Careful Who You Listen To | 19 Jul 2023 | 00:24:17 | |
In today's fast-paced information-saturated world, advice is abundant, but it can be difficult to determine which sources are truly reliable. This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of navigating the ever-growing sea of advice and how to choose the right guidance for your journey. Listen in as they share their thoughts on the expiration date of advice, the dangers of following someone else's prescribed path, and the value of trusting your own instincts. Watch the Full Episode on Video Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and introduces listeners to the topic of finding reliable business advice in today’s digital age. [00:40] - Jason shares why he wrote Advice Expires and why he and David are the wrong people to ask for advice about starting a business. [02:14] - David shares how the Internet's craving for content leads to conflicting advice and the value of trusting your own instincts. [04:16] - Ignore more advice than you take: turning the tide on the trend of collecting mentors and seeking advice from multiple sources. [05:04] - The value of being outside the Silicon Valley bubble. [05:44] - The importance of cultivating originality. [06:15] - The danger of following everyone else's formula for success. [07:38] - How the "Pinterestization" of our culture is diluting originality in favor of popularity. [09:48] - The mystery behind success—Jason shares why you must be mindful of blindly emulating successful companies or individuals. [10:52] - David discusses the “Halo Effect” and how success in one aspect doesn't necessarily mean excellence in all areas. [11:41] - The “awesomeness tradeoff”: how the book “Blue Ocean Strategy” puts a method to the idea that you can't be awesome at all the things all the time. [13:12] - Kimberly raises the issue of self-proclaimed experts on the Internet. [14:13] - Why "Rework" was so successful. [14:50] - The importance of a select set of core ideas or key values for more effective decision-making in a sea of options. [16:13] -Trusting your gut and the pitfalls of seeking too much advice. [17:13] - Kimberly asks Jason and David about their approach to seeking advice and executing decisions. [17:35] - Jason shares his approach to seeking advice and what his method depends upon. [19:04] - David shares his preference for seeking guidance from "dead people." [20:03] - Reality as a mentor: the importance of contextualizing advice and learning through experimentation. [21:44] - The role of criticality when seeking advice. [22:08] - David shares why he continues to give advice and what people are really looking for. [22:34] - How the book "Maverick" by Ricardo Semler influenced the unconventional ideas and served as a benchmark for determining the level of "bat-shitness" in Jason and David’s decisions when they were starting out. [23:48] - Do you have qu | |||
| Leaving the Cloud: The Finale | 12 Jul 2023 | 00:29:08 | |
You’ve no doubt heard the 37signals team talking about leaving the cloud. Well, now the transition is complete! In this episode of Rework, 37signals co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the unexpected speed of the move, the decisions, the hurdles they faced, and the behind the scenes of the meticulous process of moving their major applications, including those that had never before been run outside the cloud. Tune in as they share the secrets behind their successful approach and the unexpected trick that allowed them to tackle individual components without risking major disruptions. Plus, they address questions from listeners, covering topics such as backups, physical resets, and the future of their infrastructure. Listen in for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the prevailing narratives of the cloud era and delves into the untapped potential of running your own infrastructure. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly sits down with 37signals co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson, and director of operations, Eron Nicholson to discuss 37signals move away from the cloud. [00:39] - David shares their surprise at the quick completion of the move and the challenges they faced in planning and technology decisions. [01:26] - Out in six months: how the team, led by Eron, tackled the various aspects such as logging, failover, and managing two data centers while resolving numerous open questions along the way. [03:06] - An opportunity to question existing principles and processes, resulting in a novel approach. It felt like a product launch! [05:04] - Eron reflects on the accelerated timeline and how the entire ops and SIP team worked towards the same goal. [06:32] - How the criticality ladder approach allowed for smoother progress to more complex applications like Basecamp Classic. [08:47] - Eron explains the logistics and the unexpected trick that helped the team tackle individual components without risking significant disruptions. [10:52] - Moving HEY, 37signals most critical and complex app, that had never before been run outside the cloud. [11:23] - Kimberly opens the floor to a few user questions from Twitter, the first one from Pedro: "Did your company buy or already own your own data centers, or are you renting space in existing data centers? Is that even an option?" [11:50] - Running your own data center requires a gargantuan scale and enormous investment, but renting space in data centers makes it easy and capital-efficient. [14:29] - Amnesia of the pre-cloud era: using data centers is more accessible than most people think. [15:38] - Eron shares how to make the data centers work for you and your company. [16:39] - Kimberly shares a question from Moshi on Twitter: "Congrats on the move. Before deciding to move, did you try negotiating with any of the large clouds?" [16:54] - David shares their unique advantage in cloud pricing negotiations. [19:46] - Why the cloud math doesn't work: the fundamental misalignment (and huge surprise costs) that led 37signals to leave the cloud and how running your own infrastructure makes those financial surprises disappear. [21:11] - Kimberly shares a telling comment made by someone on David’s Twitter account. [22:26] - How the cloud marketing campaign has successfully convinced people they're dumber than they really are. [24:49] - "If you possess the know-how and resources, it absolutely makes sense to manage your own infrastructure." Eron shares the advantage that made the transition less daunting. [25:32] - Ki | |||
| Two-Person Teams: Listener Questions | 05 Jul 2023 | 00:32:17 | |
This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions from the recent episode about Two-Person Teams. They tackle topics ranging from two-person team collaboration techniques to their innovative approach to team cooldown periods and the benefits for individuals and the overall project workflow. Listen in as they discuss their journey in refining the on-call process and the power of "spring cleaning" to address unresolved issues. Tune in to this episode for valuable advice based on questions asked by listeners like you. Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly dives into today’s episode with more listener questions sourced from various platforms beginning with Kenneth from LinkedIn and his question about how a two-person team can be resilient to vacation, sickness, and turnover. [00:42] - Jason shares how having multiple two-person teams and time-boxed cycles allows for handling absences. [02:52] - "Scope is this magical flexible bubble of energy that you can squeeze into different size containers." [04:24] - A viewer on YouTube responds to David's remarks about trust in teams by asking if there are any prerequisites for trustworthy individuals. [04:51] - The critical foundation of a long-term collaboration: David shares why trusting employees is a worthwhile investment and how to establish the right boundaries within your organization to build trust. [08:30] - How the concept of the "trust battery" (introduced by Toby from Shopify) helps in understanding the dynamics of trust and its impact on relationships and perceptions. [10:02] - Trust is a gradual process that allows individuals to gain confidence and demonstrate their readiness for higher levels of responsibility. [11:23] - The next question comes from a voicemail inquiring about how Quality Assurance (QA) and testing are handled at 37signals and the interaction between QA and the six-week cycles of the Shape Up paradigm. [12:16] - David reveals the priorities of 37signal's recently revamped QA approach with two QA team members and no more reliance on external vendors. [13:12] - The importance of customer data using the example of the launch of a card table feature in Basecamp. [16:27] - You are responsible for your own work; the QA team is there to find the edge cases, not the other way around. [17:18] - QA (like many things) is everyone's job: how the 37signals model helps individuals level up more quickly AND ensures that the quality is right when things ship. [18:26] - Justice, a fan of Jason and David's books and products, emailed a question about how 37signals handles bugs, smaller tasks, and standalone features that vary in time requirements. [19:10] - Clearing up the confusion about the 6-week rule. The distinction between proactive and reactive work and ensuring efficient project handling. [21:49] - The 37signals "spring cleaning" approach to tackling non-critical but lingering issues, allowing for dedicated time for focused resolution while preventing constant interruptions in delivering ambitious goals. [24:11] - Cleaning up your own s***! An explanation of 37signals two-tier code system for handling issues [25:41] - How the on-call rotation works at 37signals. [25:51] - The on-call rhythm: a chance to stretch problem-solving muscles for a period. [27:37] - The vital role of the cooldown at 37signals: empowering developers and designers to recharge and fostering a balance between ambition and reflection. [31:41] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Remember, you can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Links | |||
| When to Jump into AI | 28 Jun 2023 | 00:16:21 | |
When should small business owners start paying attention to AI? Is immediate action necessary, or are we already behind? In today's episode, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the landscape of AI and its implications for businesses. From the impact on small business owners to the ever-present question of falling behind, David and Jason explore the potentials and limitations of AI and its present and future impact on how we use technology. Tune in to learn how Jason and David are currently using AI and the importance of curiosity and safety when implementing AI tools in your business. Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of AI and its relevance to small business owners. [00:41] - Jason emphasizes curiosity over fear and reassures listeners that they are not falling behind in the world of AI. [01:26] - David acknowledges the hype and FOMO surrounding AI but highlights how easy it is to get started. [02:00] - The incredible potential and rapid evolution of AI. [03:15] - Jump in and explore AI without feeling left behind. [04:10] - The key to using AI effectively. [05:07] - The fast rate of change means there’s a lot we don’t know. [06:00] - “If you don't understand what's being produced, you'll hit the wall relatively quickly in terms of what you can do with it.” [06:46] - How often do you get to live during a time of this much uncertainty? Embrace it, but … [07:47] - AI is a big parlor trick right now. Jason shares why his best advice is to have fun with AI and some ways he's used it. [09:14] - Will Jason and David be bringing AI into 37signals? [09:57 ] - Beyond the smartphone—A potential shift in how we interact with technology. [10:55 ] - Using three paragraphs when two lines will do…the awful business language verbose bullshit AI is currently churning out is a hilarious critique of corporate business-speak. [13:32 ] - How can businesses safely implement AI tools right now? [13:49 ] - "It's not like just going to a genie in the cloud." Why it's essential to be mindful of your personal data when using AI. [15:48 ] - The REWORK podcast is now on YouTube. Subscribe here. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us to have your question answered on an upcoming episode. Links and Resources: From Jason’s HEY World: Two Visions of the Future From Jason’s HEY World: You can learn AI later Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us. Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com | |||
| Buckets of Time | 21 Jun 2023 | 00:18:40 | |
Time is a valuable resource that often leaves us longing for more hours to conquer our ever-expanding to-do lists. The relentless stream of emails, meetings, and responsibilities can easily hijack our concentration, reminding us that while we have 24 hours at our disposal, we don't have 24 hours of attention a day. In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to present the concept of "bucketing" your time to make the most of your valuable hours. Tune in as Jason and David share their personal experiences with effective time bucketing, how they've successfully applied this strategy at 37signals, and the unique features offered by HEY, that allow users to manage their email within designated time buckets. Listen in to learn about the transformative power of time bucketing and escape the chaotic distractions for more control over your schedule, enhanced productivity, and a more balanced approach to work. Show Notes: [00:00] - Time is our most precious resource, today, Jason and David sit down with Kimberly to talk about the concept of bucketing your time. [00:39] - David shares how he most effectively buckets his time using one of the best features of HEY. [01:38] - How bucketing time helps teach you about efficiency and places limits on the amount of time you spend on specific tasks while still providing value. [03:27] - Jason shares the key to bucketing your time efficiently. [04:24] - The key to staying consciously focused. [05:24] - The difference between moving projects forward and just “doing stuff.” [06:17] - Squandered time creates a recipe for dread and dissatisfaction with work. [07:19] - Jason shares why he says no to attention-splintering obligations. [08:50] - “It's not just about time. It's about the commitment that you make, that you will not change your mind during that short period of time.” [09:32] - Bucketing time is for individuals, teams, and organizations who want to avoid the whiplash of being pulled back and forth and into and out of things. [10:11] - Why committing to completing is the key to moving forward. [10:50] - Time and attention are very different things, and while you have 24 hours a day, you don't have 24 hours of attention a day. [12:30] - Humans don’t multitask: David shares the behind-the-scenes cost of breaking the flow. [13:21] - How 37signals has only three programmers working on features for Basecamp AND they're shipping stuff every six weeks. [14:34] - It starts at the top—how to break the addiction to ASAP pills to change the culture at your organization for better productivity, as depicted in Rework. [15:07] - Redefining your relationship with what's urgent. [15:55] - The key to telling yourself a different story for more control over your time. [17:35] - Setting boundaries can make you appear more valuable. [18:16] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website here. [18:25] - If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode. Links and Resources: | |||
| Titles, tenure, and paths don't matter | 13 Aug 2025 | 00:25:51 | |
In this episode, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about why résumés, job titles, and career timelines take a back seat to what really matters when hiring — your actual work. They share how real-world examples cut through the noise, and open doors for people who may not have a traditional path. Key Takeaways:
Links and Resources:
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| Twitter is Still Up | 14 Jun 2023 | 00:21:30 | |
It's been more than seven months since Elon Musk purchased Twitter. Since then, a reported 80% of the company has been let go, reducing their staff from just under 8,000 employees to around 1,500. With all that turmoil, many believed that Twitter would fail completely or stop working, but Twitter's still up! Today, host Kimberly Rhodes, Jason Fried, and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to delve into the aftermath of Elon's controversial acquisition of Twitter, the surprises and lessons learned from this transformative event, and an exploration of the question, how many people do you really need to run your company effectively? Tune in as they share insights into their own experiences at 37signals and offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and business owners on the impact of Twitter's restructuring. Listen in as Jason and David discuss the resilience of Twitter, their initial predictions for the company, and the evolving dynamics of company size and efficiency. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of today's show, which is all things Twitter, and asks, how many employees do you need? [00:55] - Jason shares that the fundamental point of view is that companies need fewer employees than they think. [01:41] - While there were casualties in terms of job losses, the system of Twitter still works—you don't need as many employees as you might think. [02:28] - When building a company, the lesson is to avoid hiring more people than necessary. [03:03] - David shares, “Twitter was morbidly obese.” The lesson is clear: Less is more, and lighter teams can move faster. [04:11] - The Twitter downsizing experiment is a real-life revelation. [05:30] - In stagnant organizations, some individuals may have had "bullshit jobs" that did not impact the company or customers. [07:01] - "Representative of the kind of company that Twitter was, I can totally see how they had six and a half thousand too many people." Plus, a former Twitter employee's experience highlights the depth of the issue (not a single thing that person had worked on ever made it into production). [09:00] - The primary advantage of being small is speed—it’s just physics—and it's business. [09:52] - The valuable lessons to be learned from Twitter. [10:24] - One of the most controversial decisions made by Musk that sparked widespread debate and contestation. [11:21] - One of the novel case studies of the entire tech history—reminiscent of when Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997. [12:21] - Speaking of Mr. Jobs - how he pared Apple down to the four things he thought Apple needed to be a top-tier company (and got rid of the bloat). [13:24] - Quoting another social media tech titan on Twitter prior to Musk's takeover. [14:43] - “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery’—spawning competition and breathing new life into an area that had become stagnant through experimentation. [15:25] - Twitter's complex challenge—there's no easy fix for creating a perfect 'town square of conversation' and the social media platform poised to unseat Twitter through its radical difference. [17:34] - Even a radical dislike of Elon can’t break the addiction to the network. [18:02] - Starting from 0 followers sucks, and building an audience is hard. [19:41] - Going from 200 to zero is still going to zero. Many networks fail to address the emotional impact of starting over—on HEY, the focus is on the pleasure of writing without analytics. [20:57] - You can find Jason on Twitter @jasonfried and David @dhh. “Rework” is a production of | |||
| It’s Time to Care About Costs | 07 Jun 2023 | 00:29:38 | |
In a time when many companies are disregarding profitability and spending recklessly, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson have taken a different approach at 37signals. They believe that caring about costs is a timely concern and a fundamental principle for running a successful small business. In this episode of the “Rework” podcast, they sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the critical importance of cost management in today's business landscape. From reevaluating software subscriptions to establishing fixed pricing models, listen in as Jason and David share their proactive approach to cost management. They discuss strategies for navigating the dangers of unchecked expenses and eliminating unnecessary expenditures and their detrimental effects on a company’s long-term viability. Tune in as Jason and David share their practical insights and hard-won wisdom for building a sustainable AND profitable business in any economic climate. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the episode and opens today's discussion on the importance of caring about costs in business. [00:49] - As the availability of money is decreasing, companies are starting to realize the importance of profitability. [02:22] - Jason discusses the difficulty of shifting into a cost-conscious mindset and the common first steps of cutting costs. [03:39] - How to ensure profitability. [04:41] - David shares their experience during the dot-com boom and bust, which influenced their mindset of never wanting to be financially vulnerable. [06:24] - Why smaller bootstrap businesses must cultivate cost-conscious habits early on. [07:16] - Money buys independence (options, time, and flexibility). [08:07] - Redefining what makes financial sense and prioritizing cost-effectiveness—even if it's not your money. [08:50] - Companies are facing the harsh reality of survival. It’s time to focus on maintainable practices before it all comes crashing down. [09:40] - An opportunity to rein in wasteful spending for a more sustainable future. [10:37] - Without occasional controlled burns, the forest of technology becomes a ticking time bomb. [11:21] - A startup in Denmark is facing the end of their runway in just nine months—how they could extend their runway twofold. [12:19] - Kimberly shares about the caution-to-carelessness cycle that happens as small businesses begin to thrive. [12:43] - Jason shares how hard it is to break free from the spend-centric growth-chasing culture, especially when fueled by other people’s money. [14:13] - The "spend it all" mentality that creates a Monopoly-style illusion masking financial responsibility. [14:48] - The habit of spending is easily acquired, but making more than you spend is the real challenge, and in the next 18 months, companies lacking a profitable formula will face the music. [15:44] -Categorizing and Value Assessment: monitoring expenses depends on the stage of your business. [16:30] - David shares that if you evaluate costs beyond the immediate month or year, numbers that seem small become meaningful. [18:46] - Some costs can evoke disgust when examined closely—like our $3 million annual cloud bill—revealing their true magnitude [19:34] - A company should be a well-run, efficient system like a perfectly prepared hotdog. [20:42] - Kimberly shares that staffing and subscriptions are crucial to evaluate. Subscriptions, in particular, can accumulate and should be assessed for their value. [21:47] - David shares how 37signals prices their products and how overlooking unnecessary subscriptions can significantly impact your bottom line. [22:30] - Would you pay for multiple tools when one comprehensive so | |||
| Two Person Teams | 31 May 2023 | 00:27:38 | |
If you've been following along with the podcast, you've heard the mention of two-person teams and how 37signals makes the most of its software features and productivity with just two people working together—one programmer and one designer. In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to dive deeper into the concept of two-person teams and share valuable insights on the benefits, challenges, and strategies behind their unique approach. Listen in as Jason and David share the importance of short-term cycles, the significance of building their own tools for maximum efficiency, and how these principles shape their company's operations. They also discuss the expansion of two-person teams into other areas of the organization and the limitations of working as a team of one. Tune in to discover how the power of two can revolutionize teamwork and productivity. Show Notes:
[00:00] - Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson are here to discuss the concept of smaller teams and how two-person teams are effective at 37signals. [00:48] - Jason shares that initially, teams at 37signals had three people, including two programmers and one designer, and why they changed to two people on each six-week cycle project. [01:33] - The constraint of having two people is not a resource issue but rather an opportunity to tighten project scopes and prioritize ideas. Direct communication between the programmer and designer eliminates translation layers and allows for efficient progress. [02:14] - How the direct collaboration of two-person teams sharing the same workspace enables rapid progress. [02:53] - David shares how working with web technologies improves two-person teams' efficiency and helps avoid delays caused by platform approvals or updates. [03:49] - The significant advantage for 37signals is that it eliminates the need for conversions. [04:44] - Enhancing the bandwidth between the two team members by removing obstacles and maximizing direct communication—how 37signals realized that having five programmers for Basecamp was too many. [05:40] - Blowing the minds of startups who think they need an army of programmers—the secrets of 37signals' productivity. [06:31] - New members easily integrate into the productive system, proving that anyone can embrace this approach. [06:45] - Two-person team pairings at 37signals are flexible—some stay together, some don't. [09:06] - Embracing the freedom of the two-person team approach by setting aside daily stand-ups and rigid check-ins in favor of a balance of oversight and support without unnecessary bureaucracy. [10:19] - The secret behind 37signals' unique management approach—how management, driven by processes rather than people, creates a more efficient work environment. [11:10] - How a simple set of questions and a six-week feature cycle can provide clarity while evaluating progress and fostering trust within the team. [12:48] - A drop of product management is all you need to drive success. [14:31] - How traditional software development approaches and large teams lead to excessive long-term planning, misguided processes, and massive hirings and firings. [16:02] - Challenging the status quo with smaller, nimble projects for greater success. [17:07] - Unlike industry giants, 37signals is focused on speed and efficiency. [19:05] - David shares the difference between producing something final instead of “a long conveyor belt of partial feature implementations that get put behind feature flags, and you have the proliferation of half-done work that has never moved off the plate.” [21:07] - Jason shares one of the biggest mistakes in business—what promises really get you (hint: it’s not to your t | |||
| Listener Questions Part 3 | 19 Apr 2023 | 00:16:36 | |
On the previous episode of the Rework podcast, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, joined host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions and share their insights on various topics such as project ownership, attracting talent, and building a successful team. This week, they return to address one question that deserved its own episode. Tune in as they reflect on a significant reset that occurred at 37signals in 2021 when many people left the company simultaneously due to a "no politics on work forums" stance. They discuss how they dealt with the high turnover rate and how that pivotal moment became the catalyst that caused them to reassess and make necessary changes to their company culture. Plus, what they learned about the importance of making bold moves to drive progress and overcome stagnation. Show Notes:
[00:15] - Kimberly shares a listener question from a cardiac surgeon, Jeffrey Gibson, about the employee resignations at 37signals in 2021 when they implemented a "no politics on work forums" policy and asks for an update about how the policy is working. [01:24] - David discusses the importance of time in evaluating a decision and his pride in the decision. He highlights the positive outcomes that have resulted from it. [03:27] - David talks about renegotiating the separation between work and home and how this decision has helped to clarify the company's focus and values. [05:51] - The media gets involved: David shares his experience with media reports and how it has changed his perspective on them. [06:31] - "My personal sense is that the media, in general, has been covering itself in glory for a bit now, not just on that point, but on a lot of points." - David Heinemeier Hansson [07:23] - One of the most important and difficult decisions they have made as a company (and the positive outcomes for their workplace culture). [10:06] - A few regrets: Jason shares that the decision-making process during that time taught him to be careful about making other decisions in a fog and encourages others to project ahead and look back before making a decision. [11:38] - Kimberly asks if turnover allowed them a fresh start with changing the company culture. [12:00] - A mass exodus and a major reset. [13:22] - An opportunity to consider what matters—David explains how going through something challenging offers the chance to reassess your life, what you stand for, and where you're going. [14:53] - David discusses how difficult it is to ask big questions in daily life and how companies go through a similar process of reassessing what they want to be, what they stand for, and where they want to go. [15:38] - David reflects on the fruits of the company's efforts. [16:11] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find us on Twitter. Links and Resources: Listener Questions / AMA | REWORK Listener Questions Part 2 | REWORK Changes at Basecamp by Jason Fried (April 2021) Basecamp's new etiquette regarding societal politics at work by David Heinemeier H | |||
| Listener Questions Part 2 | 12 Apr 2023 | 00:30:03 | |
On last week's Rework podcast, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, joined host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions about their approach to design, decision-making, and more. Today, they return to tackle more listener questions, covering a diverse range of topics such as delegating projects, hiring, and remote work. Listen in as they discuss their strategies for helping team members take ownership of their work and their tips on deploying projects. They also offer advice on attracting and retaining the right talent and discuss the role of communication and culture in building a successful team. Show Notes:
[00:26] - Sarah McKenzie asks for tips on delegating projects rather than tasks and helping team members take ownership of their work areas as she wants to move in this direction with her small team. [01:23] - Jason explains how Basecamp delegates projects instead of tasks. In contrast, team members are given a rough general idea of the project and some ideas for the interface design, and they figure out how to get it done in their own time. [02:57] - David adds that even new employees and junior programmers can handle owning a whole project. [04:38] - David shares that Shape Up's idea of a fixed time frame and flexible scope interlocks with delegating projects. [05:32] - Let people live up to high expectations and see who does it quickly and best. Delegating a project means evaluating work based on outcomes, not effort, allowing team members to make decisions and run autonomously within the project's scope. [06:28] - Julio Caesar from Sao Paulo, Brazil, asks DHH about the day-to-day work in a team of two, specifically about code review, pull requests, and dev to production deployments. He's concerned about the time wasted in long change management meetings and how to avoid having someone who doesn't know anything about the project approve a deploy. [07:11] - 37signals has teams of two working on different aspects of a product, with any given feature having a designer and a programmer working on it. [08:24] - David shares that the company has a process where someone is responsible for the quality of the work that goes out the door. There is a mentorship process for new hires. Programmers and designers review each other's work. [08:40] - In the Seven Shipping Principles, there is a notion that if the person is confident that the deploy is low-risk, they are not obligated to get a review. Even CTOs and senior employees sometimes request a review to increase their confidence. The team encourages individuals to have a strong sense of confidence and delegate the responsibility of reviews to themselves. [09:22] - The review process is asynchronous and shouldn't be a blocker. [10:29] - Jason shares that although anyone can deploy work, the company has never had a catastrophic deploy in its history. And rollbacks are very rare. [12:38] - A mystery caller asks David and Jason if they have any rules, constraints, or systems in place to help them decide when to grow and when not to grow, specifically around headcount and staffing. [13:02] - Jason explains that their hiring is department-based and based on specific needs rather than global goals. They follow the principle of "hire when it hurts" and aim to alleviate actual pain rather than future pain. [15:16] - Having two people is better than one—David shares an example where they had only one person in a role, and it was difficult for them to take a vacation or sabbatical without affecting the company. He also s | |||
| Listener Questions / AMA | 29 Mar 2023 | 00:24:01 | |
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer questions posed by Rework listeners. Listen in as they share their insights and experiences in running a successful software company by answering questions from podcast listeners on topics such as 37signals' approach to design, decision-making processes, product management, and balancing managerial roles and responsibilities. Tune in to hear their unique perspectives on these key aspects of building a successful software company. Show Notes:
[00:23] - Noel asks David and Jason about their philosophy on design systems and using components instead of reinventing the wheel every time. [01:01] - Jason explains that 37signals' website is a collection of ideas. The product itself is their design system. [03:07] - As with Basecamp and Hey, design consistency can emerge naturally. [03:30] - David shares that large organizations typically use design systems to standardize processes. [05:34] - Why it makes sense for individual designers to have ownership over the design process for small teams like 37signals. [06:52] - Listener Paul asks how David and Jason resolve conflicts and make difficult decisions. [07:02] - Jason explains conflicts are rare among the team and shares how they handle the things they don't agree on (without keeping score). [08:18] - Why it's important to remember most decisions are temporary. [08:59] - Jason shares an example of the rare occurrences when they might battle. [09:49] - Setting the standards for a smooth workflow. [11:30] - David's philosophy: "A willingness to try anything as long as there's an expiration on the experiment and a way to tell whether it went one way or the other." [12:55] - Jason explains why they don't need to consult each other for every decision—even the BIG ones, like leaving the cloud. [14:28] - Prioritizing independence, competency, and TRUST. [16:50] - Podcast listener Tim asks Jason and David to discuss 37signals' approach to product management and some of their methods over the years. [17:20] - David shares how using software to gather and distribute information, allowing teams to make decisions, leads to everyone rowing in the same boat. [20:19] - Jason adds that with two-person teams, there is a direct relationship between the programmer and designer, and management would get in the way. [22:21] - Fighting hard against traditional managerial responsibilities because having managers invent work for other people can wreck a good thing (David and Jason only wear the hats of CTO and CEO occasionally). [23:25] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or email. Links and Resources: Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK | |||
| Taking a Sabbatical as a Business Owner | 22 Mar 2023 | 00:20:25 | |
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the power of taking sabbaticals as business owners. Jason recently returned to work after taking his first sabbatical in nearly 23 years. He and David share their experiences and insights on the benefits of taking extended breaks from work. They cover the challenges of stepping away from a business you've built, the importance of trusting your team to handle things in your absence, and the value of returning to work with a fresh perspective. Listen in to hear their practical advice for business owners considering taking a sabbatical and the positive impact time away can have on both individuals and the company. Show Notes:
[00:43] - Jason shares why he took his first sabbatical in nearly 23 years and how disconnecting completely from work gave him a new perspective. [01:49] - David shares his forced sabbatical experience when he had to move to Denmark. He shares his opinion that it's healthy for the organization's resiliency to have its founders step out. [04:41] - Why feeling like you can't take a vacation is unhealthy. [05:46] - Disconnecting during a sabbatical: Jason shares his experience that portrays the importance of taking time off and what he did during reentry to avoid overwhelm. [08:08] - David emphasizes the importance of taking a REAL break and trusting others to carry on, so you can return to work with a clearer mind and a better perspective on what truly matters. [09:57] - Jason shares why, if anything had to wait for him to return to be decided, it might be a symptom of overreliance on any one individual. [10:30] - Kimberly shares why there's usually a scramble to get things done before a regular vacation and asks how preparing for a sabbatical differs. [11:27] - Jason shares the writing he did before taking off. [12:23] - David shares his realization that there are big foundational tenants of how they work that will stay the same, even if one of the principles is out for an extended time. [14:00] - Shifting the work to get projects where more people can independently drive them. [16:38] - Don't fear the sabbatical: remember, you are not as important as you think. Jason advises people to trust their team. [17:53] - The importance of enjoying boredom: David shares how sabbaticals allow the mind enough space to work on the business in your head and remind you why you do what you do. [19:47] - It's time to answer those questions! Kimberly announces that next week's podcast episode will answer listener questions. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email with questions about a better way to work and run your business. Links and Resources: Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | 08 Mar 2023 | 00:29:18 | |
In October 2022, 37signals announced they would transition off cloud services in a post titled "Why We're Leaving the Cloud." Despite the advantages of the cloud, the downsides were too significant for the company. In this follow-up episode to Leaving the Cloud on REWORK, co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson discuss the progress 37signals has made since they decided to leave the cloud. Listen in as they delve into the pros and cons of using the cloud versus owning your hardware and some of the misconceptions people have about cloud costs and expertise. Tune in as the pair shares insights from their experience running web applications at scale and offer advice, tips, and tools for startups and businesses looking to optimize their infrastructure. Join the discussion as they explore the importance of getting real about the costs of the cloud for small businesses. Show Notes:
[00:49] - David reflects on the progress made since the announcement to transition off of cloud services. And why their initial plan for help with the transition didn't work for 37signals' needs. [01:37] - How the experience with the failed deal to get help with the cloud transition reinforced the idea of why 37signals wanted to leave the cloud. [02:33] - David shares some tools that can be used to move out of the cloud, including Docker and Kubernetes. [04:21] - Why 37signals opted for a new tool they built called Kamal to assist in their transition and their timeline for being entirely out of the cloud. [06:11] - Bleeding money: The $38,000 motivator to speed up the timeline and free up cash that could be better spent elsewhere in the business. [08:33] - The tools: Eron and David discuss the tools (Docker and Kamal) they've used to successfully move two apps, Tadalist and Writeboard, from the cloud to their new system and the template in place for moving the rest of their apps. [11:08] - David discusses the criticality ladder they have in place to prioritize their move off the cloud, beginning with the lowest criticality app (Tadalist) before moving on to higher criticality apps like Hey, which deals with email and must always be available to users. [13:23] - The app transition plan for the next few months. [13:58] - Eron explains the challenges of staffing up for a project of this magnitude. He also highlights how many of their current AWS-related processes will become streamlined once they have their own infrastructure. [16:00] - David shares what the cloud is great for, why it doesn't work great for middle-range SaaS companies, and the main reasons for 37signals for bringing their infrastructure back in-house. [19:31] - Eron explains their advantage in moving back to their own infrastructure and why he hopes that their experience will encourage others to consider moving away from the cloud as well. [20:24] - Blowing the notion that the cloud is the only option to smithereens: David reflects on the lost knowledge of running your own hardware and the vendors who can help. [23:17] - Eron shares how you can lease from vendors like Deft, Digital Ocean, or Hetzner until it makes sense for you to buy your own servers. [23:46] - David discusses the importance of exploring alternatives to AWS, breaking the misconception that the cloud is the only option, and exploring the most cost-effective solution for your company. [26:04] - David responds to a comment suggesting they could have saved money by optimizing cloud costs and the possibly "crippling" variability of cloud costs that is a major concern for smaller companies—a risk eliminated by owning your own hard | |||
| The Power of Time Off | 01 Mar 2023 | 00:18:20 | |
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, advocate for taking extended breaks from work, as outlined in their book "It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work." While this practice is relatively common in many parts of the world, it's less common in North America. In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes is joined by Jeff Hardy, a programmer at 37signals, as he shares his experience taking a one-month sabbatical and discusses the benefits of stepping away from work to refresh your mind. Tune in as Jeff offers advice on establishing boundaries and disconnecting from work while on vacation to maintain a healthy work-life balance and tips for smoothly transitioning back into work after an extended absence. Show Notes:
[00:47] - Jeff introduces himself and how his role in product development at 37signals has evolved over the last 15 years. [01:29] - Jeff shares why you need to be in the right mindset to avoid burnout and remain effective in your work. [04:02] - Learn from Jeff as he shares effective strategies to disconnect from work and fully embrace your sabbatical with these helpful tips. [06:07] - The two outcomes of extended time away from work. [06:52] - Why Jeff ended his sabbatical during a meetup. [07:59] - Jeff reveals the transformative power of taking a break and how it can lead to a profound shift in your perspective [09:54] - The key to understanding (and accepting) that you are not that important. [10:56] - The importance of perspective: learn to see your job is just a portion of your life, not your whole life. [12:33] - Jeff shares his tips for effectively utilizing vacation time to disconnect from work and refresh your mind. [13:46] - The ingredients you need for a successful work story. [15:04] - Discover how taking a sabbatical can provide a much-needed break without a complete disconnect. [15:40] - Jeff shares his key takeaways from his sabbatical and the lessons he learned about himself and his job. [17:35] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show. Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| The Challenges of Remote Work | 22 Feb 2023 | 00:23:04 | |
Remote work has become increasingly popular in recent years, offering several benefits, such as increased flexibility and the ability to work anywhere globally. However, there are some challenges that come with remote work and it’s certainly not for all companies. In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss these issues and how they've overcome them from their book, Rework. They share insights on how to work together across different time zones, ways to stay connected while working remotely, and the benefits of remote work for both employees and employers. Listen in to find out what remote work has to offer, along with its challenges and benefits, from two seasoned advocates. Show Notes:
[00:36] - 37signals is as remote as they've ever been. [01:02] - The challenges of time zones in a remote work environment, especially when training or mentoring new employees. [02:22] - Jason discusses the importance of scheduling and pairing employees with compatible time zones, depending on their experience level. [03:57] - David shares why from his perspective, four hours is the ideal amount of time zone overlap for remote collaboration. [05:32] - Why it's essential to be strategic about where you hire from, given the challenges of time zone differences. [06:13] - While asynchronous communication is useful, synchronous communication is needed to crack through some tasks. [07:52] - How 37signals twice-yearly meetups are more of an investment than an expense, unlike the cost of an office. [08:35] - Humans are not built for fully remote work—why meeting in person is necessary to reduce loneliness, recharge batteries, and create better team relationships. [10:57] - Why simply installing communication tools like Slack and Zoom without changing work practices offers the worst of both worlds and results in a subpar remote work experience. [12:20] - The potential pitfalls and tradeoffs of the new hybrid work model. [14:10] - The benefits of being able to hire the best talent from anywhere in the world and allowing employees the freedom to live and work in multiple locations. [16:22] - Jason discusses why some companies are requiring employees to return to the office after the pandemic and both advantages and disadvantages. [17:46] - David shares why either way is OK—some companies thrive with having an in-person culture catering to the needs of employees who prefer working in an office, while there should be more remote work options for those who prefer working from home. [20:38] - Busting the myth that remote work is impossible, creating more options for people, but the future of work remains to be seen. [22:39] - Leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions for David and Jason about remote work or running a business for a chance to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com | |||
| BONUS EPISODE: 37signals is moving to Omarchy | 08 Aug 2025 | 00:35:07 | |
In this bonus episode of REWORK, 37signals' co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson shares his exploration into Linux, development of Omarchy, and the company's decision to go all-in. Key Takeaways:
Links and Resources:
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| Hire Great Writers | 15 Feb 2023 | 00:11:32 | |
Writing is crucial for communication and collaboration in both remote and in-person organizations. But how do you find and hire great writers? Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to share why writing is at the heart of the success of 37signals and why they believe it's essential for every employee to be a skilled writer, regardless of their title or role. Listen in as they walk us through the process they use to "Hire Great Writers" from their book, Rework. Join us to learn about the critical role that writing plays in collaboration, clarifying ideas, and unlocking solutions to the problems that have been keeping you stuck. Plus, discover how the developers at Basecamp and Hey are using writing to showcase their skills and share the solutions to their challenges. Show Notes:
[00:37] - Jason shares why the cover letter is the most crucial aspect of the hiring process at 37signals. [01:34] - David shares how writing works to both set the tone for collaboration and as a 'magic filter' for eliminating BS. [02:26] - The personal scrutiny filter to use before you bother other people. [03:14] - The key to unlocking a stuck situation. [04:18] - The magic of writing and a few of the by-products. [05:17] - Meetings are toxic; why writing is a better way to do the bulk of collaboration. [06:23] - Why 37signals asks you to "show your work" during the hiring process. [07:53] - Why it's a good idea to "treat code as prose." [08:39] - No jargon required: designers and programmers need to be able to speak a shared language for a successful collaboration. [09:30] - For more behind-the-scenes, check out the technical blog at Dev.37signals, where the people who build Basecamp and Hey share about their work, the problems they've run into, and provide insight into how they've solved them. Links and Resources: Rework Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Hire Managers of One | 08 Feb 2023 | 00:19:38 | |
"Everyone should manage themselves" has been a core principle at 37signals from day one and has continued to be key as the company has expanded. Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to discuss why it’s essential to the success of your company to bring on board self-sufficient employees who require minimal supervision in what they refer to as "Managers of One" from their book, Rework. Listen in as they provide tips on identifying such individuals during the hiring process, using Basecamp's features to replace what managers do, and the fundamental characteristics of a great "Manager of One." Show Notes:
[00:42] - "Everyone should manage themselves": A 37signals mantra from day one. [02:12] - Establishing a culture where there is no need for managers. [04:03] - David shares two examples of how using Basecamp's Automated Check-ins helps replace what managers do. [05:12] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes of using the work to find the employees who are "Managers of One." [07:26] - David shares how "Drive" by Daniel Pink highlights the three drivers of motivation that they look for in an applicant's cover letter. [09:20] - Hiring is not a foolproof process—for anyone—even Google. [10:59] - The "Manager of One" concept applies before and after the hiring process. [13:47] - Self-identifying problems and rushing to solutions are not enough; the interactions must also be great. [14:32] - The ultimate quality of a true "Manager of One." [15:47] - Not to dictate but to support: the hallmarks of a great manager at 37signals. [19:02] - We're getting ready for a "ask me anything" episode. Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, or send us an email, and we might answer it. Links and Resources: Rework Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| What’s in a Name | 01 Feb 2023 | 00:28:05 | |
37signals has undergone some name changes since its inception over 20 years ago: starting as 37signals in 1999, then changing to Basecamp in 2014, before switching back to 37signals in 2022. Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to uncover the story behind the name 37signals, the reasoning behind the name changes, and the impact a name has on a business as we discuss what's in a name. Show Notes:
[00:46] - Jason connects extraterrestrial intelligence to the name 37signals. [01:56] - The out-of-the-park success that prompted a reassessment of the company's diversification. [04:07] - Do we really need all this? The stress (and necessary decisions) that grew out of success. [05:54] - How pride in their work led Jason and David to downsize their product line. [07:56] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes story of the 2014 meeting that led to sun-setting their other products to focus on Basecamp (which is still in operation after 19 years). [10:04] - David shares the lightbulb moment he had during that meeting that prompted him to fully commit to changing the company's name and business model. [12:46] - Too many products, not enough progress. Getting everyone on the same page and figuring out the next steps. [14:27] - Same people, same location, NEW NAME (and domain). [17:16] - The difficult decision to stop running Highrise. [19:19] - Back to our roots in 2022. [21:37] - How having a unified brand name helps maintain a consistent tone and strengthens brand value. [23:15] - No need for a lengthy cost-benefit analysis—go with your gut. [24:18] - It's what we want to do, and that's enough. [25:03] - Two products under one umbrella, why returning to a multi-product company name made sense from a company standpoint. [25:37] - A brand by any other name—how much does your business name matter? [27:34] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show. Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| 8's Enough, 40's Plenty | 25 Jan 2023 | 00:25:54 | |
Are you working over 40 hours a week while putting your personal life on hold? That's a common trap entrepreneurs, and executives often fall into while striving for success in their careers. It's also the fast track to sabotage your performance and drive yourself into burnout. It's time to re-evaluate your priorities and find a healthier balance. Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to discuss why "8’s Enough, 40's Plenty" from their book, It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work. Listen in as they walk us through how shutting down the laptop and disconnecting from work at the end of the day can actually help you prioritize your time. Discover how incorporating an 8-8-8 formula and pursuing passions outside of the office will enhance your overall well being and boost your productivity and performance on the job. Show Notes:
[00:48] - Jason shares the tech problem of scope that leads to employee burnout. [02:09] - David shares the American habit of working excessive hours, regardless of the impact on work quality. [04:07] - The never-ending entrepreneurial competition to see who can work the most hours. [06:12] - Taking a stand against the chew 'em up and spit 'em out "we're at war" mentality in the tech industry. [07:09] - You can have success, health, and family, just not all three; pick your two. Why we need to reexamine what being a successful entrepreneur means. [10:15] - The simple 8-8-8 formula for a balanced life and a better performance at work. [12:07] - David shares how setting a specific time to disconnect from work can help you prioritize your time. [14:05] - 1 less hour of sleep=20% less cognitive function. [16:00] - The role of sleep in maximizing long-term productivity. [19:07] - The fastest drivers are those with the slowest hands, just like a calm (well-rested) company is the most productive. [20:27] - Kimberly reveals her strategy to break her workaholic habits. [21:50] - Setting boundaries with your clients can foster more realistic expectations and trust. [22:59] - How to help your employees adopt a 40-hour work week. [25:26] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show. Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Pick A Fight | 18 Jan 2023 | 00:26:02 | |
If you follow Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, anywhere online, you know they aren’t afraid to speak their minds and stand up for what they believe in.
Today, Jason and David sit down to discuss how embracing their viewpoint has led them to go toe-to-toe with some of the industry's biggest behemoths. They’ll walk us through some of their biggest battles and what it took to stand their ground while positively impacting the world. They’ll also share tips for when, and how, picking a fight with a competitor can work to your advantage. Plus, more insight from the chapter called "Pick A Fight" in their book, Rework. Show Notes:
[00:41] - Jason shares the reasoning behind their tendency to take a stand online. [01:27] - Broken business models: the awkwardness of companies who statistically lose money trying to sell business software. [02:49] - David describes how having strong principles and standing firmly behind them puts you in direct competition with companies that run on polar opposite business principles. [04:01] - Using the underdog advantage in your marketing = highlighting the things that resonate with the target audience you are trying to reach (and make you look good). [05:43] - Don't be afraid of picking on goliath-sized competitors, but be sure you are punching up. [07:02] - Be careful of coming off as crass. If you're the market leader, ensure you act like it. [08:13] - The story of the industry heavyweight that considered taking a run at squashing Basecamp. [09:21] - The big conflict with Apple and the resulting “rocket to the moon” free marketing [12:03] - Jason explains the difference between ignoring your competition and picking a fight with them. [12:43] - Be aware (but not too aware) so you don't compete in a field you'll never win in as a small business. [13:28] - David explains why having confidence in your unique and creative ideas can give small companies a significant strategic advantage. [15:07] - It’s important to remember a company's public image is just a sliver of its reality; follow accordingly and stick with being original. [17:42] - Why you need to keep your "pick a fight" campaigns organic, and NOT strategic, to keep them from appearing contrived. [21:25] - How knowing who you are and what you stand for as a company helps you handle the detractors. [23:15] - Picking a fight needs courage and humanity; injecting your principles into your marketing isn’t for the faint of heart. [25:31] - Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer your question on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Dev.37signals 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Tales from the Front Lines | 11 Jan 2023 | 00:26:28 | |
“When dealing with customers, especially those that are angry, there are always two tokens on the table. One is the token for it just doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. And the other token is it's the end of the world. We pick one, and the customer picks the other.”—Chase Clemons Today, Chase Clemons is here. Chase is the Head of Customer Support and is on the front lines every day as he leads the 18-person support team at 37signals. Listen in as he shares why every customer interaction's outcome depends on which one of the two tokens the support team chooses, how to keep things Fisher Price easy for better customer understanding, and some of the strategies he has learned over his eleven years at 37signals for providing excellent customer service.
Show Notes:
[00:56] - Chase shares his story of providing customer support for 37signals for 11 years. [01:48] - The two industries Chase thinks everyone needs to work in at some point in their lives to be able to handle ANY situation that life or customers throw at you. [02:25] - Chase shares what went wrong when the 37signals support team tried to meet a 1-minute benchmark for responding to customers. [05:25] - What the customer support team learned when they dropped the time requirement. [05:54] - Chase shares an example of how they got off to a rocky start with a customer, but by offering real people PHONE support, they turned it into a WIN for the team and a new customer. [09:12] - Is it a BOT or not? [10:25] - Chase explains the meaning of 'stop the cap.' [10:50] - Humans are expensive but also friendly and can actually help other humans. [11:46] - 'Training the corporate out of them' and adopting the Basecamp voice for friendly, concise answers. [13:12] - How to explain things so they don't get lost in the translation. [14:34] - Why the philosophy of Basecamp products is to keep things Fisher-Price easy. [15:17] - Chase compares customer service mistakes to white river rafting and why everyone is afraid until they 'flip in the raft.' [16:54] - The disconnect between what we convey through our text, how people receive it, and why the subsequent response matters the most. [18:01] - Chase shares the lesson of the two tokens when dealing with customers and why the support team needs to make a big deal out of the problem, so the customer doesn't have to. [20:07] - Chase shares his tips for putting everyone on the front lines, including where to start if you want to involve everyone in your company in customer support. [22:15] - "Interacting with the customers reminds us of who is paying our paychecks." [22:51] - The value of having an 'emergency' contact page for your customers to make them customers for life. [25:39] - Want some advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Contact us here.
Links and Resources: Put Everyone on the Front Lines | REWORK | |||
| Put Everyone on the Front Lines | 04 Jan 2023 | 00:23:45 | |
What is your method of connecting with your customers? Does your product or service make sense to them, and do you understand how they see it?
Our perception of what is easy and straightforward and what the customer perceives as easy and straightforward can sometimes differ, making it vital for everyone on the team to hear directly from the customers without the ‘muffler.‘
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss how 37signals gives everyone on the team an opportunity to engage with their customers from their book, Rework, in the chapter called "Put Everyone On The Front Lines."
Show Notes:
[00:40] - Jason shares why it's great to ensure everyone can engage with the company's customers. [01:47] - David shares why it's vital to hear from the customer without the muffler occasionally. [03:54] - Why it's crucial to have contact with the customers to remember you're selling to individuals—and it's rewarding, too. [05:31] - Ensuring everyone gets their chance on the front lines in front of the customers is one of the most important things you can do. [06:40] - Applying the productivity and insight enhancement process to your team. [07:35] - It's not wasted talent; it's a motivational, bright spot that pays for itself. [08:28] - If you think you're too good to help customers, you're in the wrong business. [10:40] - 'There's no way you can come away from this experience feeling like it was a waste of time. It's just it's impossible. It's actually incredibly enlightening.' [11:32] - Being on the front lines helps you remember that we are all human, facing our own things outside of what's going on with the software. [12:52] - Everyone means EVERYONE. Founders show up first and lead by example. [15:14] - David shares why sometimes your authentic voice DOES need to be filtered. [16:11] - Jason shares that you're in bad shape whenever you begin to recite the terms of service to a customer. [18:13] - Why customer support is really marketing. [19:56] - 600 new email threads daily, tens of thousands of potential ambassadors for your brand = the holy grail of organic growth. [21:25] - Customer live demos a thing of the future? [22:25] - Next week, 37signals' head of customer support will share tips on interacting positively with customers, even when they have problems.
Links and Resources: Dev.37signals | |||
| Year In Review: Growing As a Company | 28 Dec 2022 | 00:26:50 | |
With the year ending, it's a good time to reflect on how far you've come in the past year as a company.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss the growth of the company in 2022 and some of the significant changes they made this year.
They'll walk us through some of the new positions they’ve added, the challenges they faced along the way, and how they work to preserve a culture at 37signals that aligns with who they are.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - Jason shares how their two hits, Basecamp and HEY, were the primary motivators to change the way they operate (and grow). [02:44] - How a bigger team is helping 37signals stay on track with their goals. [03:44] -David shares that after 20 years, the extra team members are helping to ensure everything gets done without over-scheduling and a little more downtime. [06:40] - The importance of expanding the team to be more available for their customers to help them better use the 37signals products. [08:13] - How they are creating educational tools to help their customers get more out of their products. [09:26] - Making the experience of buying Basecamp feel more luxurious. [11:13] - David discusses their painful experiences with not expanding their team to mitigate business risk. [13:04] - Jason shares what's tricky about new roles from the book, Rework. [14:01] - How to stop replaying your greatest hits and embrace the growth experience. [15:12] - How new blood and fresh perspectives help you test your old ideas to see if they've improved. [17:44] - The joys and challenges of letting go and leaning into growth. [19:01] - The frustrating and rewarding process of putting things on someone else's plate—even if YOU are good at them. [21:49] - The challenge of seeing beyond HOW the work is done to focus on the outcome. [22:54] - Why the culture at an 80-person company cannot be the same as the culture of a 40-person company, and what David and Jason are doing to ensure it remains true to who they are and what they stand for. [26:16] - If you have a specific question for Jason and David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Basecamp 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Always Sound Like You | 21 Dec 2022 | 00:26:16 | |
A small business has many benefits, like being able to move quickly, stay flexible and pivot when needed, something big businesses can't do as easily.
But, with the lure of getting bigger, sometimes small businesses fall into the trap of getting caught up in stiff language and legalese and ending up not sounding like themselves.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss why small businesses should embrace the fact they can communicate without running every word through a legal or public relations department, as discussed in the chapter "Sound Like You" of their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:54] - Jason shares why they usually publish their writing directly — from mind to keyboard to the world—to get their ideas out there as clearly, and quickly as possible. [02:00] - Why running something you've written through a filter often produces something that sounds like legalese. [03:00] - David shares why writing what you want to read is vital (or don't share). [05:49] - Big company writing philosophy is often to ensure that your writing says as little as possible but reaches as many people as possible. It's why all big companies sound the same. [07:01] - David shares why you have to create your own interest by simply being interesting, by sharing something novel, of having a stand and a position on something in some regard that's also not just there. [07:52] - The smaller your company, the bigger risk you can (and should) take with your writing. [09:05] - Jason shares some dos (and don'ts) for writing for your small business. [12:12] - David explains why developing your writing voice is essential and how you can do it in relative obscurity if you are a small company. [14:49] - How to become an overnight writing sensation (after just ten years of practice). [15:38] - When you SHOULD go through legal and PR before publishing your writing. [18:35] - "We have expertise in authentically stating our observations and opinions about the business world, how to run a company, and how to develop good software—so that's what we do." [19:22] - "Everything is interesting if you peel back the layers far enough." [20:20] - Why it's essential to measure your writing for the internet as a body of work, not on a piece-by-piece basis. [22:03] - The unobtainable formula for creating a hit. [22:57] - The no-traction way to gain traction with your writing. [23:42] - Why you should avoid looking at the stats of how many people are reading your writing. [25:25] - If you have a specific question for Jason or David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources: Hey World| Jason Fried 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Let Your Customers Outgrow You | 14 Dec 2022 | 00:22:16 | |
Customer relationships don't have to last forever. Keeping your hands wrapped around every customer will only lead to trying to evolve into something you're not is the death knell for your business.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss the idea that you should let your customers outgrow you from their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:32] - Why evolving as your customers do is a death knell for your business. [01:37] - David shares why, as a software design business owner, you need to be the voice of the people who aren't your customers—yet! [02:31] - By building in all the features your existing customers want, you are closing the door on what makes things turnkey for new customers. [03:24] - Not every customer relationship has to be forever. [04:55] - Jason shares why your product needs to evolve no matter your business size. [05:39] - Why it's important to gear your improvements on behalf of everyone and not a few outliers. [06:39] - How pricing models differ based on size - both of you and your customers. [07:49] - We don't have whales because we don't have the sales cycle to hunt whales. [10:38] - Keeping your hands clasped around every customer vs. knowing when to let them go (or grow). [11:46] - We don't want to change our business to support companies much bigger than ours, but your mileage may vary. [14:26] - The lackluster appeal of committee-driven software development. [16:07] - Hey—a different animal for a global audience. [16:31] - Jason shares why doing anything easy requires a lot of work. [18:13] - David shares why 37signals is in the business of designing software for an audience of one. [19:11] - Wallet-based feedback is the best feedback you can get. [20:03] - "The only kind of software that is out the gate great is software built for the people who've worked on it." [21:19] - We are putting together an "ask me anything" episode. So if you have a question for Jason and David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850. Links and Resources: Hey | |||
| Software as art | 06 Aug 2025 | 00:23:50 | |
This week on The REWORK Podcast, 37signals' co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson explore a listener question about approaching software as art. They discuss the importance of having a point of view as you're building products. Key Takeaways:
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| Your Estimates Suck | 07 Dec 2022 | 00:24:20 | |
"Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted," - David Heinemeier Hansson
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, discuss their chapter in Rework on why estimating is not the road to completing projects and what has helped them get things done in their business for over twenty years.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - David shares why it's time to accept that we're awful at estimating. [03:27] - Why estimating is 'an amazing example of the human optimism to overcome its own fundamental flaws in a way that's just wholesomely unrealistic.' [04:48] - What 37signals does instead of estimating as relayed in Shape Up. [05:49] - Jason asks how much you are willing to spend (or lose) in gambling (and software development projects). [08:13] - The worst situation to be in for rational decision-making. [09:00] - Why it's vital to stick to your limits. [10:29] - "Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted as a barrier for our software development process over all these years." [12:47] - In software development, no one—from the owner of the company to the end user—gets everything they want; staying within your parameters is about trading concessions. [14:15] - You need to keep the engine moving because software development is like baking bread on an industrial scale. [16:19] - You produce what you practice. [16:57] - You don't cut corners or quality, you cut scope, and if you can't, you scrap the project. [18:15] - Losing the right things prevents you from missing out on other opportunities. [19:48] - Forecasting the next ten years, six weeks at a time. [20:33] - Shortening planning cycles improves your ability to determine your next steps with more accurate information. [21:15] - 'We're making a ton of progress with a small team with a product that's been around for 18 years - so it works!' [23:21] - Why keep doing things that don't work?
Links and Resources: Shape Up | |||
| Come Small, Come All | 30 Nov 2022 | 00:24:51 | |
There's a lot of talk in the tech world about getting bigger, growing as fast as you can, and getting investor money so you can scale quickly.
But that's not the only path. And recently, we've seen that being bigger only sometimes works well for companies.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the bigger is better culture in tech and why the human connection inherently built into small businesses can actually be an advantage. Plus, their invitation to small businesses to think differently through their open letter called, Come small, come all.
Show Notes:
[00:44] - Jason shares why it's important to note that Basecamp is interested in helping the Fortune 5 million and the small shop down the street. [01:49] - David shares why it's important to him to be honest about the company's target audience. [03:29] - The key to finding the right dance partner that's your bread and butter. [05:30] - David shares the funny anecdote about when Twitter was a customer of Campfire and how they tried to "scare them away." [08:50] - "We found our space. Can we just stay here?" [09:59] - Jason shares why leaning into the space you are uniquely suited for and being closer to the work is an advantage. [12:08] - Why it's essential to cultivate confidence in the human connection built into small businesses. [13:36] - The unsustainable quest for a big market share. [15:10] - How starting out during the original .com boom and bust cycle taught Jason and David to make sure the company has margin times three. [18:28] - How to look like both an idiot and an oracle without changing a thing about the way you do business. [21:10] - Where business breakthroughs come from. [23:45] - How large companies devour innovation. [24:16] - A special offer to help make Basecamp affordable for new customers that sign up by December 31st.
Links and Resources: Basecamp Open Letter to Small Businesses Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com 37signals on YouTube | |||
| Out-Teach Your Competition | 16 Nov 2022 | 00:25:18 | |
Throughout its tenure, 37signals has consistently grown without spending much on marketing.
How'd the company do this? By out-teaching their competition.
Recently, they've begun sharing their thoughts on company decisions and even doing product walkthroughs on their YouTube channel.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the true value of sharing the behind-the-scenes of how they work and what they've learned in over 20 years in business.
Show Notes:
Links and Resources:
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| Company Meet-Up: Amsterdam Edition | 03 Nov 2022 | 00:18:39 | |
Meetups offer remote companies an opportunity to gather away from the day-to-day for more in-depth conversations that foster deeper relationships for the team and bigger leaps for the company.
At the beginning of October, sixty 37signals employees met up in Amsterdam for the first company-wide meetup outside the U.S.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the importance of in-person meetups for remote companies, the structure they use for their twice-yearly team gathering, and tips and insight for other companies on planning their own offsite meetings.
Show Notes:
Links and Resources: @37signals on Twitter | |||
| Decisions are Temporary | 27 Oct 2022 | 00:25:05 | |
Co-founders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss decision making within an organization. Small businesses have the advantage of being nimble and able to change course quickly, so there's no reason to get caught up in the "what ifs." Show Notes:
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| Leaving the Cloud | 21 Oct 2022 | 00:29:37 | |
David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of 37signals, and Eron Nicholson, Director of Operations, discuss why 37signals is making the move away from the cloud. Show Notes:
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| Don't be a Hero | 27 Sep 2022 | 00:24:17 | |
You've been working on a thing for days, weeks, maybe months and you're still nowhere near finishing. Our natural instinct is to say, "I've already put this much time and energy into it, might as well finish." Well, most of the time this is wrong. You're not getting that time back either way and usually the better option is just to quit! | |||
| Quick Wins | 20 Sep 2022 | 00:22:31 | |
Building and maintaining momentum is one of the most underrated things you can do when building products. Keep moving forward by shipping work early and often. The longer something takes, the less likely it is you'll finish it. At 37signals, we work in six-week cycles, but even six weeks is a long time, so pepper in some easy, quick wins to keep that momentum going. Show Notes
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| Good Enough is Fine | 13 Sep 2022 | 00:26:03 | |
At 37signals, we tend to solve problems by finding a "judo solution." The simplest, easiest, cheapest solution that gets you 90% of the way there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be great. It just has to be good enough. Part of this is reframing and simplifying the problem itself. And, remember, you can always turn "good enough" into "great" later. Show Notes
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| Meetings are Toxic | 06 Sep 2022 | 00:27:30 | |
Meetings are the worst type of interruption. A one-hour meeting with five people is actually five hours of productivity lost. They're also horrible at conveying information. So, why do so many companies jump to meetings as the first option. Next time try writing something up, jumping on a a one-on-one call, or just skip the whole thing altogether! Show Notes
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| Balancing it all | 30 Jul 2025 | 00:29:55 | |
37signals' co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson are back behind the mic with host Kimberly Rhodes. This week, they’re discussing balancing personal interests, health, and hobbies with business success. They discuss building a healthy company without it taking over your life. Key Takeaways:
Links and Resources:
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| Bubble Up | 09 Aug 2022 | 00:17:35 | |
A close look at how we develop features at 37signals. Designer Michelle Harjani walks Shaun through the entire process of making the Bubble Up Feature in HEY. Show Notes
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| Interruption is the Enemy of Productivity | 28 Jun 2022 | 00:25:09 | |
Having a calendar peppered with meetings or other commitments is horrible for productivity. Most people need at least a few hours or even days of completely uninterrupted alone time in order to do their best work. On this episode Jason and David give some strategies for creating the empty space you need to be productive. Show Notes
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| Reasons to Quit | 21 Jun 2022 | 00:26:52 | |
Are you doing work that matters or are you just doing what you think you should be doing? Sinking too much time into something that you should have quit working on weeks ago is an easy trap to fall into. Avoid it by asking yourself some simple questions:
Show Notes
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