"We need to stop forcing marketing metrics on the business MQLs, click-through rates, web traffic and start speaking the language of pipeline, bookings, and revenue. When marketers align their reporting with what the executive team actually cares about, they stop defending their existence and start leading the growth conversation.” Leslie Alore, SVP of Marketing at Flexera Marketing Impact Unlocked: Prove, Scale, and Strengthen Revenue Contribution. A practical framework for aligning marketing metrics with the outcomes your executive team actually cares about. In this episode of Revenue Boost, Kerry Curran sits down with Leslie Alore, SVP of Marketing at Flexera, to unpack one of the most urgent challenges facing B2B marketing leaders today: proving marketing’s value in terms that drive boardroom decisions. Too many teams are stuck reporting MQLs while the C-suite wants pipeline, bookings, and revenue. Leslie shares how to shift from tactical metrics to strategic impact with a marketing contribution model that reframes the role of marketing as a core revenue engine not just a lead factory. You’ll walk away with actionable strategies to: Align marketing language with executive priorities Measure contribution across pipeline creation, acceleration, and bookings Navigate complex sales cycles and partner motions with smarter tracking Earn trust by demonstrating marketing’s real influence on growth Whether you’re a CMO, VP, or revenue-minded marketer, this episode gives you the tools to elevate your seat at the table and scale marketing’s business impact without fighting for credit.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

"Deeper ICP understanding solves 99% of your marketing problems including differentiation. Most B2B teams scratch the surface with outdated personas and miss the real insights that drive action. When you truly understand your audience, their pain points, their priorities, and what keeps them up at night you unlock messaging that resonates, content that converts, and positioning your competitors can’t copy.” Tom Shapiro, CEO of Stratabeat In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled The New Rules of B2B Marketing: How to Win with Differentiation and Value, Not Volume, host Kerry Curran welcomes back Tom Shapiro, CEO of Stratabeat and author of Rethink Lead Generation, for a high-impact conversation about what’s no longer working in B2B marketing and what to do instead. Tom shares what he’s hearing from CMOs and growth leaders across the industry: the old B2B marketing playbook built on volume, vanity metrics, and outdated tactics is dead. Today, differentiation and deep audience understanding are the new non-negotiables. Together, Kerry and Tom explore the modern marketer’s biggest challenges: cutting through the noise, adapting to evolving buyer behavior, and building strategies that go beyond tactics to deliver lasting revenue impact. You’ll learn: Why deeper ICP research is the foundation of everything from differentiation to content strategy How to use original research to create market-leading content, build thought leadership, and feed your demand gen engine What most teams get wrong about SEO and how to leverage it strategically even as AI reshapes the SERP How to identify high-intent website visitors and activate personalized outreach within 24 hours The power of CRM win/loss analysis, sales call listening, and real-time behavioral data in shaping smarter campaigns Tom also shares how marketers can partner more closely with sales to uncover fresh insights, sharpen messaging, and continuously improve website performance to reflect what truly matters to their buyers. Whether you're a CMO at a scaling SaaS company or a demand gen leader trying to drive pipeline in a saturated market, this episode delivers practical, proven ways to rethink your strategy, realign with your audience, and win with value not just volume.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

The Future of Integrated Media – Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth

"It’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. Too often, brands optimize for individual platforms without considering the bigger picture. Today’s consumers move seamlessly between channels. If we reach the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative, we lift all ships. The brands that break down silos and adopt an integrated, customer-first approach will drive real, measurable growth." That’s a quote from Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, and a sneak peak at today’s episode. 

In this episode The Future of Integrated Media: Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth I  sat down with Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, to discuss the evolving landscape of digital marketing and how business leaders can optimize their media strategies for sustainable revenue growth.

With budgets tightening and expectations rising, business leaders must rethink how they allocate marketing dollars. Sammy emphasizes the need for brands to unify their internal teams, leverage data-driven decision-making, and test integrated strategies that align with evolving consumer behaviors to drive sustainable revenue growth. 

Be sure to stay until the end when Sammy shares what you need to start optimizing integrated media asap! 

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.186)
So, welcome, Sammy. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Sammy Rubin (00:07.025)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, a leading independent marketing agency. I do everything from consumer insights and category intelligence to media planning and buying. Everything we do is underpinned by industry-leading intelligence, and we have an amazing creative team as well. So, we really support clients in achieving their business goals through all aspects of our work.

In my role as VP of Integrated Media, I oversee the teams developing integrated strategies for our clients—everything from CPG to retail to entertainment. I have the privilege of being part of these teams and helping to guide what we take to market.

Just a bit more background about me: I've been on the agency side my whole career and have had the privilege of working with some amazing brands. I’ve partnered with disruptor brands like SoulCycle and Yasso Frozen Greek Yogurt (which is always stocked in my freezer), as well as Fortune 500 companies like Nike and WarnerMedia. I started as a paid search manager, and it’s been an incredible journey evolving from a single-channel focus to an integrated media leadership role.

It’s been amazing to watch media evolve and see how having an integrated media lead on your business is a no-brainer. It provides a holistic view of how all marketing investments contribute to business results—which is what we’re all rallying around today.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:51.15)
Thanks, Sammy. I'm so excited to have you and hear about what you're seeing, hearing, and doing these days. We’re such kindred spirits—I also grew up in the performance media world. I actually started as an SEO manager because, at the time, paid search was still new. But you’re right—there has been so much evolution, and the channels are constantly changing and getting smarter.

To your point, you can’t just have a single-channel approach or strategy anymore. I love your integrated media role. You must get to see it all. What trends are you seeing these days?

Sammy Rubin (02:33.041)
Yes, my focus over the past 18 months or so has really been on commerce. There are many definitions of commerce in this space right now, but what I mean is partnering with brands that have direct-to-consumer objectives—whether through e-commerce, their own brick-and-mortar stores, or wholesale retail relationships, including Amazon.

When it comes to commerce, what we’re finding—back to the point of integration—is that it’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. And when I say "channel," I mean both media and sales channels. Clients have sales objectives across different retailers and distribution points, but if we do our jobs right as marketers—effectively reaching the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative—it lifts all ships.

We see this reflected in data and our own behaviors. You and I, like most consumers, search on social media, pre-validate in-store purchases on Amazon or Reddit, and then take the next step. So, it’s really important for brands to take a customer-first approach—understanding where they show up and ensuring their creative is more critical than ever before.

I think the latest eMarketer stats show that adults in the U.S. spend over 13 hours a day with media. That’s a lot. Like, what else do we do? Sleep? I know I get eight hours of sleep every night—at least, all my trackers tell me that. But if we’re spending that much time with media, exposure alone is no longer enough. We need to drive engagement.

That’s where creative is the new media targeting—it’s the new media strategy for many environments. In Meta’s algorithm, over 50% of what you pay is based on projected creative engagement and other creative-related factors. As brands, we must show up consistently across platforms because customers bounce from place to place.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:05.422)
That’s a lot—all our waking hours!

Sammy Rubin (04:24.349)
Exactly! And advanced measurement plays a big role here. Consumers will purchase wherever it’s convenient—whether that’s Amazon, TikTok, or in-store. We’re launching TikTok Shops for many clients, and having an integrated measurement approach helps avoid the blind spots created by siloed data.

For example, we often see a CTV campaign or a social program funded by a DTC marketing team drive sales at Walmart or Amazon stores. That’s because, to the customer, those distinctions are irrelevant—unless there’s a specific offer tied to the channel.

We build high-velocity media mix models for our clients through our proprietary tech platform, Polaris. This platform integrates foundational reporting, media mix modeling, and incrementality test design, helping us showcase the impact of different media activities on various business outcomes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:25.41)
Yes, I love that. The holistic experience is key. Customers don’t care if an ad is on Meta or Google, and they likely won’t even remember where they first saw it.

I was just recording another episode on media mix modeling and attribution. The point made there was that we’re going back to measuring impressions and the importance of creative—because it provokes an emotional response and drives action. But we can’t control what action they take. We just have to ensure our brands are out there, engaging, and driving conversions.

Sammy Rubin (07:13.437)
Exactly! It’s about reframing high-intent actions. Are we seeing an increase in Instagram profile views? Organic social video views? These are proxies for site traffic. For many audiences, especially Gen Z, social media is the new website.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:41.198)
Right.

Sammy Rubin (07:43.121)
And that perspective needs to be incorporated into measurement strategies.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:49.486)
That’s such a great point. You also mentioned retail media—when you and I started, it wasn’t a thing. Now, it dominates strategy and investment dollars. How are you incorporating that shift into your clients’ strategies?

Sammy Rubin (08:15.781)
Retail media investment growth is astronomical. Retailers have turned into media conglomerates, and they want a bigger share of total marketing budgets—not just retail budgets. They now offer influencer marketing, off-site paid search via Google and TikTok, first-party retail data, and closed-loop measurement.

Retail media is just media. We know that brands have historically driven sales across all retail doors through broad awareness campaigns. That still holds true today. Clients now ask us whether they should invest directly with retailers or take a broader media mix approach.

We recently ran a matched-market test for a client, exposing certain markets to media activations while holding others out. We drove measurable 10-20% sales lift in those markets without retail media—proving that broader media strategies can also drive retail results.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:45.016)
Wow. Yeah.

Sammy Rubin (11:00.923)
We’re constantly testing to see what works for our clients. What works for one brand might not work for another. But with everything being retail media, the role of an integrated media strategist is to figure out the right places and spaces to activate and how to hold those dollars accountable for achieving objectives.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:21.432)
I love that example and the market testing approach because brands’ budgets are getting smaller, yet we’re all expected to do more with less. It’s about driving effectiveness and efficiency and figuring out how to do it. To your point, if you don’t have the budget, you can’t just dump everything into the retailer—you have to get smarter and more strategic.

So much of this revolves around consumer behavior and what they’re going to do. I know this shift—thinking more about consumer behavior versus channel targeting—is a big one for clients. How are you educating them and pushing for that integration?

Sammy Rubin (12:11.567)
Yes, it really depends on the brand. The internal organizational structure can vary drastically, even among brands within the same vertical or of the same size.

For example, we have CPG brands that have both a D2C marketing lead and a retail marketing lead. Others have a D2C marketing lead, a retail e-commerce lead, and a shopper lead.

Or, we might have a brand with a brand marketing lead, a performance and growth marketing lead, and a retail lead. There’s no standardization in terms of which teams drive which commerce objectives.

But in every case, what’s required is an integrated media mix to drive those different commerce objectives—whether direct-to-consumer, e-commerce, in-store, or retail. All of these teams start circling around the same media platforms and creative messaging but in service of different financial goals tied to different commerce channels.

When that happens, resources are duplicated, and creative production multiplies.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:31.138)
Yes, they start competing with each other.

Sammy Rubin (13:36.101)
Exactly. And I don’t know what the incentive structure looks like behind the scenes, but it likely plays a role in who wants control over what.

The bigger issue is the blind spots in measurement when there’s no unification or transparency across data, activation schedules, or even simple things like campaign calendars.

For instance, if the DTC team is running a massive CTV activation but the team managing Amazon retail media or brand search isn’t aware, they might not adjust their investments to capture that demand.

Having remarketing audiences set up properly and ensuring synergy between teams is crucial for marketing efficiency. And that requires unification.

I won’t sugarcoat it—it’s challenging work. Many brands have legacy structures and long-established ways of working. But the data doesn’t lie.

At the end of the day, all these different marketing stakeholders are laddering up to a single point of accountability—the CMO, the VP of Marketing, or another senior leader.

The CFO obviously cares too, right? They want to maximize the return on marketing investments and find efficiencies.

So, we’re building operating models to unify teams internally, especially across planning. What are the different goals, product priorities, budgets, and audiences? These will often be different for each team, but by coming together in an integrated planning session, we can align efforts.

That way, teams can draft off each other’s impact, shift certain responsibilities where needed, and ensure media dollars are deployed strategically. From a measurement perspective, we then report on both individual and collective goals.

We also do more integrated reporting and measurement. What’s the halo effect of different media tactics on different commerce channels?

For example, we’ve seen cases where a retail client scaled back social media, and the Amazon team later reported a bad sales week. When teams don’t communicate, they don’t realize the relationship between social media in the market and performance across different distribution channels.

Using data as a unifying factor is so important. It sounds obvious, but truly building that data foundation is critical.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:36.076)
Yes, I’ve seen exactly what you’re talking about—when internal teams don’t share their strategies, they either compete or lack alignment.

Your consultative approach—bringing an organizational and data framework to clients—must be invaluable for improving efficiency and effectiveness. I love that your clients are listening and working with you to optimize.

You also have a solution to unify this data. Can you share more about your data platform?

Sammy Rubin (17:38.973)
Yes, at Wpromote, our proprietary tech platform is called Polaris. It serves as the foundation for all our standard media reporting.

We have over 100 API connections with various media and data sources. We use this to build an integrated data taxonomy—not the most exciting topic, but extremely important—so we can see all our data in one place.

On top of that, we can layer in advanced analyses, including media mix modeling, incrementality test design, and scenario planning. For example, if we launch a new media channel, scale back an existing one, or receive additional budget, how can we best optimize our investments?

Sammy Rubin (18:38.141)
Once we have that data foundation, we can integrate additional factors like pricing data and promotional data to enhance modeling. This allows us to distinguish the impact of media versus price or distribution as key levers in achieving business goals.

It’s all about moving from crawl to walk to run, but it’s entirely attainable with the right data infrastructure.

When I joined Wpromote in 2020, one of my first priorities was building our media strategy department to help clients achieve holistic business results.

It’s one thing to have integrated measurement and insight presentations, but actually moving dollars and stewarding budgets across the entire media mix is critical.

Our media strategists lead this effort, ensuring innovation while leveraging the right mix of people, technology, and processes to drive success.

That’s how we help our clients.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:02.734)
It’s so valuable. As you were talking, I kept thinking about how not only the media channels have evolved but also how data has evolved.

Marketers are getting smarter, brands are targeting audiences more effectively, and investments are working harder.

This has been so helpful—thank you for sharing your expertise.

For listeners who want to get started, what’s the first step you’d recommend for brands looking to optimize and integrate their media strategies?

Sammy Rubin (20:42.545)
Step one: Have a conversation with all your internal counterparts who oversee different marketing investments and priorities.

Get a full picture of all media currently in-market—or planned—to identify synergies.

See where you might unlock value by integrating investments across teams. Often, the same media partner is being leveraged by multiple teams, but they’re working in silos.

Then, start building integrated media reporting.

You don’t need API connections or advanced modeling on day one. Just align on KPIs, how teams measure success, and how media investments are being attributed.

Once you identify trends—like, "Hey, two weeks ago, this team ran a large CTV activation, and we saw a lift"—you can start applying causal impact modeling to confirm relationships.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:30.85)
I love that. Sammy, thank you so much. This has been so valuable.

How can people find you?

Sammy Rubin (22:47.355)
Find me on LinkedIn—Sammy Frankel Rubin—or through Wpromote. If anything we discussed today sounds interesting, feel free to reach out.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:59.918)
Excellent! Thank you so much, Sammy. Looking forward to speaking again soon!

Sammy Rubin (23:05.51)
You too—thanks so much!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"It’s no longer about winning the channel; it’s about winning the customer. Too often, brands optimize for individual platforms without considering the bigger picture. Today’s consumers move seamlessly between channels. If we reach the right audiences with the right message and high-impact creative, we lift all ships. The brands that break down silos and adopt an integrated, customer-first approach will drive real, measurable growth."

That’s a quote from Sammy Rubin, VP of Integrated Media at Wpromote, and a sneak peek at today’s episode. In The Future of Integrated Media: Smarter Digital Marketing for Revenue Growth, Kerry sits down with Sammy to discuss the evolving landscape of digital marketing and how business leaders can optimize their media strategies for sustainable revenue growth. 

With tightening budgets and rising expectations, business leaders must rethink how they allocate marketing dollars. Sammy emphasizes the importance of unifying internal teams, leveraging data-driven decision-making, and testing integrated strategies that align with evolving consumer behaviors to drive measurable results. 

📢 Be sure to stay until the end, where Sammy shares the key steps you need to start optimizing integrated media today! Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level? Let’s dive in!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

From Social to Strategy: How Smart Organic Content Fuels Consumer Interest & Revenue Growth

"Brands need to stop thinking of themselves as the center of the conversation and start putting their audience first. If you focus on fulfilling their interests—whether through information, education, or entertainment—you’re not chasing engagement anymore. You’re creating value, and that’s what drives real organic growth." That's a quote from Clayton McLaughlin and a sneak peek at today’s episode. 

Hey there! I’m Kerry Curran—revenue growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. 🎙️ Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real results. If you’re serious about growth, hit subscribe and stay ahead of the competition! 

Organic social media has evolved—no longer just a place for brands to post and hope for engagement, it’s now a critical driver of consumer interest and revenue growth. But with so many platforms, algorithms, and trends shifting constantly, how can brands move beyond vanity metrics and turn organic social into a true business asset?

In From Social to Strategy: How Smart Organic Content Fuels Consumer Interest & Revenue Growth I sat down with Clayton McLaughlin, EVP at BBDO’s innovation division, Dobbino, to break down how brands can shift their social media approach from passive posting to proactive strategy. 

We dive into how  brands can leverage consumer intent, high-value content, and strategic engagement to drive measurable business impact.

Stay tuned to the end where Clayton shares the best next steps to improve the value of your organic social strategy. 

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.107)
So, welcome, Clayton. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Clayton McLaughlin (00:07.416)
Sure, happy to be here. I'm Clayton McLaughlin, EVP and business lead for an innovation division inside BBDO called Dobbino. I've been there for almost a year now, but I’ve spent nearly 20 years in the ad industry, working at agencies of various sizes and with brands of all scales. My background has always been in the digital world, but I now bounce between both the media and creative sides, trying to fulfill the full agency roster at this point.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:38.473)
Excellent. Well, we're excited to have you today. I know you’ve got a wealth of experience. There’s so much we could cover, but what’s top of mind? What’s hot for your clients and the brands you're working with today?

Clayton McLaughlin (00:57.036)
When you say “wealth of experience,” it really just means you're old. I appreciate that.

No, but seriously, top of mind for us has been organic social. It’s been my focus for the last year or so, and I believe it’s at the forefront of digital right now. It reminds me a lot of the early SEO conversations we had 15 or 20 years ago—discussing the value of organic presence, what it really means, and how we position it differently from just a traditional social platform.

We like to talk about it as interest media, not social media. Originally, Facebook was about engagement and communities, and while those elements still exist, social today is much broader than just Meta. There are multiple platforms, each with their own unique characteristics. However, the one thing central to all of them is that people use them to find information or engage in conversations about their interests.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:33.447)
Yeah, definitely. I know we joke about having “a wealth of experience,” but we’ve been in the industry long enough to remember the early days of SEO—when we had to convince marketers why it was important. And now, we’re seeing organic social take on that same level of importance.

Clayton McLaughlin (02:08.302)
Exactly. Whether it's a hobby, work-related content, or pure entertainment, everything people do on these platforms is interest-driven. If brands can shift their mindset from simply chasing engagement and likes to fulfilling audience interests, they can unlock a whole new level of effectiveness.

Marketing, to me, is 100% about a value exchange. If a brand can provide valuable content—whether through information, education, or entertainment—within their audience's area of interest, it completely changes how social strategy should be approached. Instead of trying to force engagement, brands should focus on offering value that aligns with consumer interests.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:30.717)
That’s such an interesting perspective because we all use social platforms differently depending on our mindset. Seeing it as “interest media” rather than just another social channel could be a valuable way to build awareness, attract new audiences, and foster loyalty with existing customers.

Clayton McLaughlin (03:59.906)
Exactly. If brands stop thinking about themselves as the center of the conversation and instead put their audience at the center, they’ll find new creative opportunities to engage with people in meaningful ways.

Not only does this help brands connect better, but it also creates incremental reach—which, let’s be honest, is the whole point. Even when I was on the paid side, everything came down to incrementality. Loyalty is great, but every brand needs a steady flow of new customers. Organic social is a great tool for that if done right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:43.881)
That makes a lot of sense. So, how should brands determine which platforms to focus on? What’s the best way to decide where to invest their organic efforts?

Clayton McLaughlin (06:20.738)
That’s a crucial question. The first step in any organic strategy should be determining the right platform for your brand.

Each social platform serves a unique purpose. YouTube is all about long-form content (even though they’re pushing Shorts, which, let’s be honest, can be annoying). Pinterest is inspiration-driven. TikTok is built around short, engaging snippets. And so on.

Brands need to be ruthless in channel selection—choosing platforms that align with their identity and where their audience is already active. Red Bull, for example, is essentially a content company that happens to sell energy drinks. Their home base is YouTube, where they create long-form, high-production-value content. Everything else is a distribution channel for that content.

Nike, on the other hand, thrives on Pinterest, even though it's not an obvious choice. That’s because they’ve spent 40 years building an aspirational, inspirational brand—which fits perfectly with Pinterest’s ethos.

It’s not just about where your audience is—it’s about where your brand naturally fits and where your voice feels authentic.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:34.333)
Yes, that’s a great point. It’s not just about choosing a platform but matching the content format to what resonates with users there—whether that’s long-form video, short-form clips, static images, or text-heavy content.

Clayton McLaughlin (10:09.390)
Exactly. And measurement plays a huge role in this, too.

There are short-term and long-term metrics—what we call fast and slow data.

• Fast data includes immediate engagement metrics—likes, comments, shares.
• Slow data is about compound interest over time—how consistent organic efforts drive brand visibility, audience trust, and incremental reach.

Too often, brands get caught up in moment-in-time engagement and miss the bigger picture. Organic social isn’t about one viral post—it’s about consistent, strategic execution that builds momentum over time.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:42.825)
That’s a really important distinction. And it ties into proactive vs. reactive engagement.

Clayton McLaughlin (13:14.850)
Exactly. Organic Social isn’t a Field of Dreams—if you build it, they won’t necessarily come. You have to be proactive in community engagement.

• Reactive means responding to audience interactions on your own channels.
• Proactive means inserting your brand into relevant conversations elsewhere.

The best organic strategies don’t wait for engagement to happen—they create it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:28.268)
Absolutely. And quality over quantity is key—having high-value interactions with the right people is more important than vanity metrics like inflated follower counts.

Clayton McLaughlin (25:02.210)
100%. Be ruthless with platform selection and only invest in what you can sustain consistently. Inauthentic participation will hurt your brand more than no participation at all.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:30.823)
This has been so insightful, Clayton. Where can people find you if they want to connect?

Clayton McLaughlin (25:42.774)
Best place is LinkedIn—Clayton McLaughlin. Should be easy to spot—lots of gray hair.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (26:05.572)
We’ll link that in the show notes. Thanks so much, Clayton—this was a great conversation!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Smarter Marketing Measurement: Your Competitive Edge for Revenue Growth

"The big ‘aha’ moment for most marketers comes when they cut something they thought was working, wait 30 or 60 days, and see that sales remain exactly the same. That realization—that they were spending money on something with zero impact—can be both eye-opening and unsettling." – That’s a quote from  Jeff Greenfield, CEO of Provalytics and a sneak peak at today’s episode. 

Today, we’re diving deep into one of the most critical challenges in modern marketing: measurement.

How do you know if your marketing dollars are truly driving revenue? Are you making data-driven decisions—or just guessing? 

In today’s episode Smarter Marketing Measurement – Your Competitive Edge for Revenue Growth, I’m joined by Jeff Greenfield, CEO and co-founder of Provalytics.

In this episode, Jeff and I discuss:
✔️ Why most marketing measurement is broken—and how to fix it
✔️ The impact of upper-funnel branding and how to prove its ROI
✔️ How AI and machine learning are transforming attribution
✔️ How to align marketing and finance using a single source of truth

Be sure to listen to the end where Jeff shares actionable steps to improve your measurement strategy today!

Are you ready to take your marketing strategy to the next level! Let’s go! 

Kerry Curran (00:01.144)
So welcome, Jeff. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Jeff Greenfield (00:07.758)
I'm Jeff Greenfield. I am the co-founder and CEO of Provalytics, an AI-driven attribution platform. Since 2008, I've been in this space to answer that old question from John Wanamaker: "Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted. The only problem is, I don't know which half." Since 2008, I've been helping marketers and brands determine which half is wasted and how to redeploy those existing funds to increase their return on investment.

Kerry Curran (00:45.678)
Excellent. We're excited to hear everything you know about analytics, data, and attribution. So tell us—when your prospects or brands call you for the first time, what are some of the business challenges they face that make them realize they need your help?

Jeff Greenfield (01:06.432)
I'd say one of the top challenges is the concept of overcounting. Most marketers operate in more than one channel—typically five or six or more. Each channel has its own way of counting. The best way to think about it is that when you're advertising on Meta, they don't know that you're also on TV. They don’t know that you're on Google. Criteo doesn’t know that you're on Amazon.

Kerry Curran (01:17.742)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (01:33.294)
If you have a thousand orders in a day and you're working across five partners, when you add up all their data, it may actually tell you that you had 5,000 orders. So, overcounting is a major issue. Marketers often ask, “How do I figure out all this math?”

Another big challenge is knowing that, as a marketer, you hear anecdotally that channels like connected television (CTV) and podcast advertising work for brands similar to yours. Yet, when you try them, you don’t see results, and you wonder, “What’s the magic? How is it working for them, but not for me?” You don’t see the numbers going up, and you’re trying to figure out why.

Finally, one of the biggest challenges is the constant tension between marketing and finance. Finance teams are heavy on math, and they often talk about marketers under their breath, saying we don’t understand how math works. Meanwhile, marketers think finance doesn’t understand how marketing works. This disconnect is critical because finance controls the budget. If you want more budget, you have to speak their language. Those tend to be the biggest issues.

Kerry Curran (02:57.442)
Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge. I’m nodding and laughing because we all know that CFOs are the hardest to convince of marketing’s value—especially for upper-funnel initiatives. I believe in the rising tide lifting all ships when it comes to marketing, but you're right. If you can’t align investment at the channel level or prove overall impact, it becomes much harder to justify.

You're helping clients identify the sources of traffic and revenue. How do you solve for this? How are you helping them build out a single source of truth?

Jeff Greenfield (03:47.534)
That’s the key—figuring it out. One issue within organizations is that, going back to my earlier example, if a company has five agencies, each agency is using its own methodology. They rely on platform metrics, their own internal metrics, and the marketing team’s metrics. So, if each agency uses three different methods, and then finance has its own, that means the company has 15 or 16 different sources of truth.

Kerry Curran (03:56.077)
Yeah.

Jeff Greenfield (04:17.358)
This becomes a huge issue. We solve it using a statistical, machine-learning, AI-driven approach.

Back in 2008, when I built C3 Metrics, we could collect 100% of the data—all website data, third-party data, and impression data. We could track an end-to-end trail, with date and timestamp, whenever someone converted.

Then, privacy regulations changed everything. Facebook, YouTube, iOS—they all said, “You can’t have impression data anymore.” Now, there are more data gaps than available data. So, we had to ask, “How do we fill these gaps?” That’s where statistics, machine learning, and AI come in.

The great thing is that we no longer need user-level first-party data. AI has become so advanced that all we need is daily aggregated marketing data from platforms and separate conversion data. We can link them together.

This allows us to connect digital and traditional channels to digital KPIs—whether on a company’s website, Amazon, or other marketplaces. We can even connect marketing impressions to individual scripts written each day.

We’re now in a privacy-centric world. We’re not tracking at the user level, but because of stronger math and faster computers, we can achieve insights that were previously impossible.

Kerry Curran (06:26.286)
That’s incredible. You bring up so many examples of how difficult it is to track conversions and touchpoints, and to demonstrate a channel’s benefit and halo effect. So, break it down—how do you help brands, as you’ve said before, measure the unmeasurable?

Jeff Greenfield (06:54.636)
It’s really about understanding how different channels impact one another.

I was talking earlier today with a TV agency for one of our clients, and I reminded them how much things have shifted. Years ago, direct response TV ads would say, “This product is only available through this 800 number—limited supplies!” People would stop what they were doing and call.

Now, consumers know they have options. They can visit the website, check Amazon, or walk into Walmart. The challenge is understanding how media in one channel influences conversions in another.

For example, a brand might run TV ads directing viewers to their website, but most people actually go to Amazon instead.

The biggest way we help brands is by taking data through a step-by-step process. First, we align the internal marketing team, because this is a new way of looking at data. Insights may feel uncomfortable at first—because they challenge assumptions.

Then, we work with agencies. Brands hire search agencies to follow Google's guidance. But when you're advertising in 20 different places, you need to shift focus. Convincing agencies to adopt a new methodology takes time.

Once everyone is aligned, we integrate the data into internal dashboards. This is where things get exciting—the CMO or VP of Marketing can go to finance and say, “Look at the dashboard. The numbers add up. Overcounting is fixed. The halo effect is accounted for.”

And that’s how you, as a marketer, get a bigger budget to grow the brand.

Kerry Curran (10:34.094)
That’s so smart. Change management is one of the hardest parts of implementing new strategies, especially in marketing. How do you convince marketers, agencies, and CFOs to trust your data?

Jeff Greenfield (11:04.142)
Great question. Unlike old attribution models, which weren’t incremental, our data is fully incremental.

To build trust, we back-test all data. We validate models using a method called K-fold testing. Instead of withholding a full month of data, we train the model with a month’s data but hold back different portions across multiple tests. This lets us validate the model while keeping recent data.

But the real proof comes when marketers act on our insights. The moment they cut a campaign they thought was working, and 30–60 days later, sales remain unchanged—that’s the aha moment.

Here’s the transcript with only grammar corrections, ensuring clarity while maintaining the original tone and intent:

 

 

Jeff Greenfield (11:04.142)
Well, that's a great question. Unlike the days of attribution—where the big complaint was that it was never incremental—our data is entirely based on incrementality. Everything we do is incremental. One of the ways we convince people of this is by back-testing all the data to validate the models.

Kerry Curran (11:05.688)
You.

Kerry Curran (11:11.054)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (11:33.986)
What I mean by that is, if you go back to the old days of marketing mix modeling, you would use about three years’ worth of data. The last month of data would be held back, and then you would ask the model to predict the revenue for that most recent month. You could then compare the prediction with actual revenue to assess how well the model worked, which helped build confidence in the results. However, those results were based on a three-year period and were primarily used for planning the next year.

Kerry Curran (12:03.832)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (12:04.158)
But marketers today are most interested in what happened in the last month or even the last week. We don’t want to hold back that data. There’s been a lot of work in machine learning and AI to validate models while still providing the most recent insights.

A technique called K-fold testing was developed for this purpose. It involves training the model using a month’s worth of data while holding back a portion of the days. For example, we might hold back the revenue, leads, or add-to-cart data for 20% of the days and ask the model to predict those values. Then we repeat the process, holding back a different 20%, and do this five times. By the end, we’ve held back 100% of the data at different points, allowing us to fully validate the model’s accuracy.

Even though we can show a chart demonstrating that the model predicts outcomes with, say, 93% accuracy, nothing beats real-world testing. If the model suggests that a campaign isn’t producing the expected results and recommends cutting it by 50%, we can test that recommendation by actually reducing the spend and observing what happens.

Kerry Curran (13:11.758)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (13:26.816)
The big “aha” moment for most marketers comes when they cut something they thought was working, wait 30 or 60 days, and see that sales remain exactly the same. That realization—that they were spending money on something with zero impact—can be both eye-opening and unsettling.

The truth is, if you’re not using analytics at this scale, much of what you’re doing may have little to no impact. That’s the first thing to recognize. But it’s also important to understand that you didn’t know any better before. The focus should always be on improving and moving forward. The best way to build trust in the model is to first show how well it predicts outcomes, and then implement the recommendations to see the results in action.

Kerry Curran (14:18.946)
Yeah, that’s so smart. I love how you’re able to prove the impact of your model and show how it works. It’s a challenge to truly understand what’s working in marketing.

One of the things we’ve discussed before is the impact of branding initiatives and how different channels influence the bottom line. How are you uncovering those insights for marketers, especially in channels where there’s less of a direct click path?

Jeff Greenfield (14:54.636)
First off, I think many marketers who have only worked in digital marketing have a warped view of how marketing actually functions. I blame Google Analytics for this because it’s entirely click-based.

Many marketers believe that we invest dollars to buy clicks, and clicks lead to sales—that’s how marketing works. But that’s actually not how marketing works.

The click is the last thing that happens. What we do as marketers is invest dollars to buy eyeballs, which we call impressions. We buy impressions to capture attention. The job of those impressions is to build awareness, and when awareness is built up enough, people will take action—whether that’s visiting a store or, in today’s world, clicking on a website.

For most brands today, their "store" is online, meaning clicks lead to conversions. But the hyper-focus on clicks—driven by Google, Meta, and other digital platforms—has pushed marketing dollars toward the lower funnel, at the expense of brand-building efforts.

Kerry Curran (16:22.126)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (16:22.242)
And that’s a problem because the lower funnel is the most competitive space. It’s a bidding war. If you spend the same budget this year as last year on a particular channel, you’ll likely get fewer clicks because the cost per click keeps rising. Just look at Meta’s and Google’s earnings reports—they keep increasing because advertisers are stuck in this lower-funnel trap.

Kerry Curran (16:42.232)
[Laughs] Mm-hmm.

Jeff Greenfield (16:50.102)
Larger brands are catching on. They’re moving up the funnel. Investing in upper-funnel marketing is the gift that keeps on giving because your funnel stays full. It delivers returns at twice the rate of lower-funnel tactics.

We measure this by focusing on how marketing actually works—tracking impressions rather than just clicks. Our impression-centric model allows us to compare different channels—linear TV, CTV, direct mail, paid social, and more—on an apples-to-apples basis.

Branding efforts often take longer to show impact, but we track multiple KPIs, not just revenue. We incorporate leading indicators, such as website traffic, call center volume, and other engagement metrics, to capture branding’s long-term effects.

Branding has always been critical, but now it's finally being recognized as the key to long-term growth.

Kerry Curran (18:40.856)
Mm-hmm.

Kerry Curran (18:44.812)
Yes, I completely agree. I’ve seen this play out across multiple brands. There’s been such a race to the bottom—just focusing on immediate conversions without building awareness or customer relationships.

I hope more marketers and CFOs are listening to this. Branding is the growth lane, and making smarter investments across channels is what truly drives long-term revenue growth.

Jeff Greenfield (19:18.614)
A thousand percent. Most marketing today is focused on offers, benefits, and limited-time deals. But brands that differentiate themselves with emotional messaging—connecting with their audience on a deeper level—win in the long run.

Marketers obsessed with lower-funnel performance often forget that consumers form emotional connections with brands, and those connections drive purchasing decisions. The complexity of digital marketing has caused many to lose sight of fundamental marketing principles.

Kerry Curran (20:14.53)
Yes, I agree! That’s exactly why we’re here—to help educate people on marketing strategies and foundations.

One key thing you’ve pointed out is that you can tie ad creative and messaging to performance. Going back to that emotional connection, how are you testing and measuring it?

Jeff Greenfield (20:43.694)
Absolutely. We incorporate ad creative as a dimension in our model. This works well for video, TV, and radio advertising. Even for search and social, brands can extract key ad attributes and integrate them into their marketing hierarchy.

Once you categorize creative elements, you can analyze which components are driving higher sales or leading indicators. This data informs future creative strategies, ensuring continuous improvement. That’s what makes this so exciting.

Kerry Curran (21:32.62)
I love that. Insights like these help brands become smarter, more efficient, and more effective with their marketing investments.

Jeff, thank you so much for your expertise. For marketers who want to improve their measurement approach, where should they start?

Here’s your transcript with only grammar corrections, ensuring clarity while maintaining the original tone and intent:

 

 

Jeff Greenfield (20:43.694)
Absolutely, because that becomes one of the dimensions of the model. What’s really exciting is that when brands actually take the time, they can easily analyze this for video advertising, TV, or radio. However, it becomes a bit more challenging when dealing with search and social ads.

That said, it doesn’t take much effort for marketers to go through their ads, identify key attributes, and integrate them into their marketing hierarchy. Once they do that, they can start seeing which ad components drive more sales or leading indicators. This, in turn, helps shape future creative decisions. That’s what makes this so exciting.

Kerry Curran (21:32.62)
Yeah, I love that. I love the level of insight, and anything that helps brands become smarter, more effective, and more efficient with their investments is incredibly valuable.

Jeff, I appreciate all of your insights. For the people listening who are thinking, I need to get smarter about my measurement, what are some foundational steps they should take to get ready?

Jeff Greenfield (21:59.128)
Well, the first thing I’d say is that most marketers running campaigns typically have a Google Sheet sitting on their desktop or laptop. It tracks daily spend, clicks, cost per click, and cost per sale. But what’s often missing is the impression number.

And chances are, when they downloaded the reports to build this sheet, impressions were included in the data—they just ignored the column.

Kerry Curran (22:09.422)
You.

Jeff Greenfield (22:28.096)
So, I’d recommend repulling all of that data for the last 12 months on a daily basis. Add an impressions column right after the date, then start graphing your daily impression volume alongside your daily clicks and daily sales. Look for relationships in the data.

This is a DIY approach to what we do at Provalytics.

Kerry Curran (22:40.204)
You.

Jeff Greenfield (22:54.302)
As you analyze these relationships, look for a time delay between impressions rising and an increase in clicks and conversions. When you identify days where impressions spiked and led to a later uptick in sales, dig into those specific days. What did you do differently? That’s the type of activity you want to do more of.

This is the first step in preparing for a paradigm shift—understanding that we buy impressions, and that’s where marketing analysis should begin.

Kerry Curran (23:17.166)
I'm sorry.

Jeff Greenfield (23:22.964)
The second step is education. At Provalytics, we’ve put a lot of thought into this, especially with all the privacy changes and how the industry is evolving.

We created an Attribution Certification Course that covers the past, present, and what we see as the future of attribution. Because marketing will continue to change, the best way to prepare is by strengthening your foundational knowledge.

The course is completely free. It takes about an hour and a half to complete, and there’s a quiz at the end. If you pass, you get a certification you can showcase on LinkedIn. It’s a great resource to deepen your understanding of how we got to where we are today.

Kerry Curran (24:11.278)
Excellent, Jeff! This is incredibly valuable. I’m definitely going to check out the Attribution Certification myself.

Tell us—how can people find you? Where can they get in touch with you and learn more about Provalytics?

Jeff Greenfield (24:25.634)
People can always find me on LinkedIn if they want to connect. They can also visit the Provalytics website, where we offer an on-demand demo.

We also host regular live demos, where we walk through the platform in detail and explain exactly how the modeling works. If anyone is interested, they can sign up, watch the demo, and schedule a time to chat with us.

I’m always happy to speak with marketers—or anyone interested in this space. I know that, to most marketers, this is just math, but to me, it’s kind of sexy.

Kerry Curran (25:07.382)
Awesome! Well, I’m glad we’re making data and attribution sexy again, right, Jeff?

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, insights, and free resources with the audience. This has been fantastic.

Jeff Greenfield (25:13.506)
That’s right.

Jeff Greenfield (25:27.064)
My pleasure, Kerry. Thank you so much for having me.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Cooper Schwartz: Monetizing Content: How Top Publishers and Brands Maximize Reach and Revenue Impact

“The brands that win aren’t just the ones with the biggest budgets—they’re the ones that strategically align performance and brand marketing to maximize reach and revenue.” That’s a quote from Cooper Schwartz and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hey there, I'm Kerry Curran, Revenue Growth Consultant, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast.

Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real revenue results. If you're serious about growth, hit subscribe to stay ahead of your competition.

In this episode, titled Monetizing Content: How Top Publishers and Brands Maximize Reach and Revenue Impact, Cooper Schwartz, Head of New Business and Growth at Money Group, shares his expertise.

In a crowded digital landscape, content alone isn’t enough. Brands need a strategy that turns visibility into real revenue. Cooper and I discuss strategies for leveraging publisher partnerships to create high-impact, holistic, cross-channel digital programs that drive both reach and ROI.

We dive into the winning formula for balancing performance marketing and brand strategy—and how to dominate non-branded paid search while outmaneuvering your competition.

Stay tuned until the end, where Cooper shares actionable strategies to optimize content for revenue growth. Let’s go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.107)

Welcome, Cooper! Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Cooper Schwartz (00:07.534)

Hi, Kerry. Thanks for having me. My name is Cooper Schwartz, and I am the Head of New Business and Growth at Money Group, a portfolio company that has been around for about 11 years. We own notable brands like Money.com and ConsumersAdvocate.org, as well as proprietary technology like NavChain. I'm also one of the founding partners and have been with the company for 11 years.

I was actually the first employee. I originally came from a therapy background—my mother is a therapist, and I thought I would follow in her footsteps. However, two of my close friends—one with 10 years at Google and the other at SEO Moz—convinced me to jump into affiliate marketing and help build this company. So here I am today, still finding opportunities in the market and excited to talk with you.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:02.843)

Awesome, thanks, Cooper! I had no idea about your therapy background. We could totally pivot and have a different conversation! I always say marketing is a lot like psychology—it plays a strong role in what we do, so I’m sure that background strengthens your expertise.

Anyway, I’m excited to have you here because I know you have a ton of valuable platforms.

Cooper Schwartz (01:09.484)

Yeah, yeah.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:29.617)

You have a range of brands and technology under Money.com, so I’d love to hear more about how you're helping brands navigate their business challenges. When brands or agencies reach out to build a partnership with you, what are they typically looking for?

Cooper Schwartz (01:51.672)

You're right—Money.com is a strong domain. Before it became Money.com, it was Money Magazine, a 50-year-old brand that people have nostalgia for. It was all about planning for the future and sharing insights on managing finances.

Today, brands still want to be aligned with the Money brand. But we don’t just offer content alignment—we provide a variety of campaigns and marketing opportunities. Many brands approach us saying, “We love the brand, we love the content—how can we work together?” That’s a great starting point for the many solutions we offer.

From non-branded paid search to placements across our ad network of about 150 publishers, we help brands engage with their audience in unique ways. Some of these publishers might be seen as competitors, but in reality, they’re “frenemies.” We help brands leverage content, align with our brand, activate paid search strategies, and secure placements on other high-authority sites, all while simplifying the management process.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:37.691)

That’s great. It sounds like brands really value the partnership and brand equity you offer. Can you walk us through how you start these relationships and build custom strategies to increase their awareness and authority?

Cooper Schwartz (04:03.192)

Sure! There’s always an initial “interview” process—almost like dating. Not to take it back to therapy, but it’s about getting to know the brand:

• What are their needs?
• Who is their target audience?
• What are their expectations?
• What are their key performance goals?

We get a lot of inbound interest because money impacts nearly every industry. But we have to ensure alignment goes both ways—not just that they align with our audience, but also that we can effectively reach their audience.

At our scale, we also consider resources. Can we accommodate the brand in a way that sets them up for success? We prioritize enterprise-level partnerships that move the needle for both companies. That often means ensuring the investment in a given category can be six or seven figures annually—we need to create impact on both sides.

Once we’ve established alignment—brand fit, budget, resources—we dive into which marketing channels make sense:

• Are they already running paid search? If not, why?
• How can we help them expand their shelf space on Google?
• Is brand awareness the priority? If so, we can integrate them into our franchise content like Best Places to Live, Best Hospitals, Best Colleges, which reach wide audiences.
• Are they struggling to get placements in high-authority content? If so, we can help them secure placements on Forbes, NerdWallet, CBS News, CNN, and others.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:53.058)

That’s great! I love that you have such a wide portfolio of solutions that are fully customized to each brand’s goals.

So, let’s say an enterprise brand comes to you for a rebrand, product expansion, or new launch. You work with them to align with the right publishers and strategies. Can you share a specific example of a successful partnership?

Cooper Schwartz (07:39.918)

Sure! One that I’m especially proud of is our partnership with ADT.

We’ve worked with ADT for about eight or nine years, originally in non-branded paid search—helping them reach high-intent consumers who were still undecided. Over time, our relationship evolved into exploring additional channels.

Last year, we launched a sponsorship activation for Money’s Best Places to Live, working closely with ADT’s PR, media acquisition, and marketing teams. The goal was to integrate ADT’s branding into content about protecting the best places to live.

This was a multichannel activation that included:

• Social media campaigns
• Video content
• Targeted PR efforts
• Weekly performance check-ins

The result? A high-impact security hub on Money.com featuring ADT across 100+ articles. It was a strategic, elegant execution.

Not only did we secure ADT placements on our own sites, but we also helped them get featured on CBS News, The New York Post, and other major publishers. This is the kind of holistic strategy that allows brands to gain visibility across multiple trusted sources.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:34.345)

That’s an excellent example! It really demonstrates how brands can layer multiple channels—from paid search to PR to content—to create a unified, impactful strategy.

Let’s shift gears to AI and Google’s generative search results. How do your strategies help brands compete with AI-driven summaries at the top of search results?

Cooper Schwartz (20:43.342)

Great question! One core belief we’ve held is that editorial integrity matters. We prioritize keeping a human voice in our content while leveraging AI in strategic ways.

Here’s our approach:

1. Investing in real writers & editors – AI can assist, but human oversight ensures depth and quality.
2. Creating content clusters – Instead of one-off articles, we develop deep, interconnected content that builds expertise and authority.
3. Partnering with already-successful publishers – Instead of relying solely on our content, we collaborate with trusted media brands that are already ranking well.

The reality is, the pie is big enough. Rather than fighting for every ranking, we focus on working with the best—helping publishers monetize better while delivering results for our partners.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:25.383)

That’s a smart approach. So, for brands listening today—what’s the first step if they want to explore this strategy?

Cooper Schwartz (25:40.910)

Start by researching who dominates your industry’s review space. Look at organic rankings, paid search, and media partnerships. If you see competitors investing in multiple touchpoints, that’s a sign they’re onto something.

Then, reach out! You can contact me at cooper@money.com or find me on LinkedIn.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (26:07.537)

Awesome! We’ll include those links in the show notes. Cooper, thank you so much for your time and insights today!

Cooper Schwartz (26:20.098)

Thank you, Kerry!

Kerry Curran, RBMA 

Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. If you're struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth, you are not alone. That's why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster.

So if you're serious about your revenue growth, hit follow,  subscribe, and drop a five-star rating. It helps us keep the game-changing content coming, as we're dropping new episodes regularly—and you don’t want to miss out.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“The company that grows isn’t the one with the best solutions—it’s the one with the best marketing that truly connects with its audience.” That’s a quote from Sheri Otto and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hi there, I’m Kerry Curran, Revenue Growth Consultant, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast. Every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that drive real revenue results.

So if you’re serious about growth, hit subscribe to stay ahead of your competition.

In this episode, titled Founder-Led Growth: Winning with Authenticity in a Noisy Market, I’m joined by Sheri Otto, founder of Growth Lane Strategies.

In today’s crowded digital space, authenticity is the ultimate competitive advantage. Sheri and I discuss the winning strategies behind founder-led growth and how to leverage the power of video and behavioral science to create demand-driven content that actually converts.

We cover the biggest content mistakes SaaS and B2B brands make—and how you can stand out in a saturated market without relying on AI-generated fluff.

Be sure to stay tuned until the end, where Sheri shares her expert tips on how to amplify your authenticity and turn your content into a demand generation engine.

Let’s go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.354)

Welcome, Sheri! Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Sheri Otto (00:08.462)

Hi, Kerry. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm super excited to be here! I'm Sheri Otto, the founder and CEO of Growth Lane Strategies. We help founders and SaaS businesses with content marketing for demand.

We don’t just create content—we engineer it to drive pipeline and demand for businesses. In this era of AI, we focus on human connection, helping brands deeply engage with their audience. We use strategies like video and behavioral science to support SaaS and tech founders in growing their brands and standing out in today’s competitive landscape.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:46.952)

That’s excellent, Sheri! I'm so excited for our conversation. I know we first met because you were giving me tips, and I said, "We need to share this with the world!"

You've been in marketing for a while—how have you seen the landscape evolve to the point where you realized businesses needed this approach and decided to start your own company?

Sheri Otto (01:07.906)

Absolutely! Coming from Big Tech, with over a decade of B2B marketing experience—including at HubSpot, smaller brands, and agencies—I’ve seen a common theme across all of them:

How do you create content for demand? How do you nurture leads? How do you cut through the noise and establish leadership?

The companies that grow aren’t necessarily the ones with the best solutions—they’re the ones with the best marketing. The ones that effectively:

• Connect with their target audience
• Influence the buyer’s journey
• Build efficiencies into their sales process

These were major gaps in the industry, and now, with AI-generated content saturating the market, brands are simply pumping out content without tying it to real revenue generation.

That’s why I started my consultancy—to help businesses strategically create and distribute content that drives demand and fuels growth.

A big part of this is middle-of-the-funnel content. Research shows that buyers in the consideration phase are actively looking for:

• Case studies
• Trainings
• Deeper educational content

Many brands skip this step, jumping straight from awareness (top of funnel) to conversion (bottom of funnel), leaving a huge gap in nurturing potential customers. I help them fill that gap in a way that ensures they are memorable in the minds of their audience.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:06.921)

I love that! We talk a lot about the challenges B2B brands face today—especially since it’s a buyer’s market.

Buyers are spending more time researching and learning about vendors before making decisions. That means brands need a strong content strategy to meet them where they are.

I also love what you said earlier—the best solutions aren’t always the most successful brands. The ones winning market share are those mastering video strategy and personal branding.

Many of my peers—people who have been in the industry for 20+ years—weren’t raised in the video-first era, so it can feel uncomfortable at first. Meanwhile, younger marketers are leveraging video effortlessly and capturing more attention.

I’m excited to dive deeper into your expertise! So, let’s start with your top tips. What tools can leaders use to accelerate their thought leadership and content strategy?

Sheri Otto (04:29.228)

First of all, Kerry, I love that you’re talking about this on your platform—kudos to you!

Step one is showing up online. You need to have a voice, an opinion, and a consistent presence.

A few practical steps to start:

1. Optimize your LinkedIn profile.
   
   
   • Use a clear, professional headshot.
   • Write a short, strong value statement explaining who you help and how.
2. Start creating content consistently.
   
   
   • Focus on thought leadership that positions you as an expert.
   • The winning brands today are leveraging founder-led and audience-led strategies—not just relying on traditional marketing.

Many professionals don’t realize that they already have valuable insights to share!

• You think about your expertise.
• You talk about it with colleagues.
• You write about it internally.

The key is getting those insights out of your head and into the world.

One simple way? Voice notes.

• Use Google Voice Typing or a notes app.
• Record your thoughts on key topics or FAQs your audience has.
• Then, take those raw notes and use ChatGPT to format them into posts, scripts, or bullet points.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:20.379)

That’s such a great tip! It removes the pressure of researching or over-planning. You already know your subject—just start documenting it.

Sheri Otto (07:50.134)

Exactly! And you can use tools to refine it:

• Google’s "People Also Ask" section – See what people are searching for.
• Social media – What questions are being asked in your niche?
• Competitor content – What conversations are trending?

When you see a question you already have an answer for—that’s your sign to create content around it.

And remember: Content with a purpose wins.

• Where do you want to direct your audience? A blog, community, newsletter?
• Every piece of content should connect to a broader strategy.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:31.817)

I love that! You also mentioned ChatGPT for formatting. A key challenge is consistency—how do leaders ensure they’re prioritizing content creation?

Sheri Otto (09:46.858)

Batching!

A simple way to stay consistent is to batch your content:

1. Write multiple video scripts at once.
   • Instead of one script, write three to five short ones.
2. Film in one session.
   • If you're new to this, start with three videos per session.
   • If you're experienced, aim for six.
3. Use ChatGPT as an assistant.
   • Give it a format you like and have it structure your content.

This way, you have weeks of content ready to go without scrambling last minute.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:12.809)

That’s perfect! It makes content creation more efficient and less overwhelming.

Let’s talk video—why is it the best content format today?

Sheri Otto (11:07.384)

Through that template, I'll do that three or four times, and that becomes my batch for the next month. It's a really cool way to stay consistent.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:12.809)

That's perfect! And I totally relate to that—when we can sit down and focus, we're so much more effective and efficient with our time.

You've talked about different types of content that you're publishing, but tell us more about why video is really the best approach.

Sheri Otto (11:31.584)

Yes, absolutely! The reason why video allows people to connect with you is because, first, people can see and hear you. They can see your mannerisms—like how my hands are moving—they can hear my voice. And if they hear it again, it triggers something in their brain. There's a sense of familiarity and comfort that develops.

Sheri Otto (11:59.902)

Video accelerates the lead nurturing process. There are a lot of statistics and studies around this, which is why I incorporate video at every stage of the funnel—middle-of-the-funnel training, top-of-the-funnel short-form content, and bottom-of-the-funnel demo videos. Video can do so much for you.

Another reason I strongly encourage video as part of your go-to-market strategy and personal brand is that all social media platforms are prioritizing video in their algorithms.

If you pull the 2024 report from LinkedIn, it will tell you—video is key. Platforms are pushing video, meaning they’re giving more reach and impressions to short-form videos.

The sweet spot is 60 to 90 seconds—this gives you the opportunity to get in front of more eyeballs because the algorithms are favoring vertical short-form videos.

Especially, Kerry, when you have a strong hook, which I know we'll get into in a second. But yes, that’s my recommendation—and I think you and I will be working on this soon too!

One thing I want to say before we get into the hook is that a lot of times, we feel like everything needs to be perfect—polished words, flawless delivery, a professional setup.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:02.686)

Yes.

Sheri Otto (13:23.732)

But actually, that mindset is counterintuitive because people relate to you more when you’re not perfect. Authenticity resonates.

That’s going to carry even more weight now that AI is dominating the digital space. How can you stand out? By being real.

Share your stories, share your vulnerabilities—because that's how we truly connect.

I always push for storytelling in video because that’s how we create deeper connections.

And remember—your video doesn't have to be a perfect production. You don’t need perfect lighting, a professional setup, or a fancy studio. You could literally just stand in front of a plain wall.

At the end of the day, people are curious about people.

And no matter how advanced AI becomes, human connection is still currency.

So just start—try it out, and you’ll see the difference.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:17.193)

I love that! And you're right.

Some of your best videos are so natural—you're out and about, sometimes outside on a sunny day, sometimes inside. But every time, it creates that human connection, and it makes you a more authentic advocate for your audience.

So, let's get to the hook. I know that’s often the hardest part. Talk to us about why hooks matter and share some tips for creating a strong one.

Sheri Otto (14:22.35)

You got it! Okay, so we all know that when people are scrolling, they’re looking to either:

1. Be informed
2. Be entertained
3. Be educated

And because we’re constantly scrolling on autopilot, we need something to disrupt that pattern.

That’s where your hook comes in.

You need a strong hook to stop the scroll.

I hear objections to this sometimes, Kerry. A colleague of mine who’s been in business for over 20 years once told me, “I don’t want to sound too hooky.”

And my response was—why is that a bad thing?

You don’t have to sound gimmicky—you just need to get their attention.

That’s the reality.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:14.609)

Exactly!

Sheri Otto (15:41.858)

In a world where AI can generate anything, our challenge is retaining attention—and the hook is how you do it.

Some of the best hooks are:

1. Bold statements
2. Contrarian viewpoints
3. Curiosity-driven openers

But the key is making it easily digestible.

A great hook makes people stop and think, “Huh, that’s interesting.”

And here’s something not a lot of people realize—short hooks work better than long ones.

The first sentence should be compact and powerful—almost like a catchphrase.

For example, one of my best-performing hooks was:

"We all need to create content to get discovered, right?"

That video got hundreds of thousands of impressions because:

1. It’s a universal truth—people agree with it.
2. It makes them curious—where is she going with this?
3. It’s a question—which our brains automatically want to answer.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:45.095)

I love that!

Sheri Otto (17:07.634)

Exactly. And I use questions a lot in my hooks because our brains are wired to respond to them.

For example, I once did a “day in the life” video with the hook:

"Ever wondered what a go-to-market strategy really looks like?"

And that one did really well—several hundred thousand impressions. It made people think, Yeah, we all do need to create content. Okay, what’s she talking about? or What do you mean?

So, here’s the thing about questions—when you use a question as your hook, something happens in our brains: we can’t ignore it.

That video performed incredibly well because people already had their own opinions, and they wanted to compare them to mine.

So when you’re crafting a hook, think:

• Does this make people curious?
• Does it challenge a common belief?
• Is it short and easy to consume?

If the answer is yes, you’re on the right track!

I learned this years ago—if you ask a question, it's harder to ignore because our brains are automatically inclined to answer it.

For example, in one of my day in the life videos, I used the hook:

"Have you ever wondered what a go-to-market strategy really looks like?"

That video did really well because people already have opinions on go-to-market strategies. So when I shared my perspective, people wanted to compare it to their own.

It's all about understanding your audience and the themes that resonate with them.

Sheri Otto (18:27.618)

Bold statements and questions make great hooks because they’re easily consumable.

So no long-winded sentences—keep them compact.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:35.005)

I love that! That’s such valuable, actionable advice.

Now, I know everyone wants their content to go viral. While there’s no guaranteed way to make that happen, what are some things people can do to increase their chances of getting picked up by the algorithm?

SheriOtto (18:43.992)

Yeah!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:02.609)

What are your top tips for gaining traction with the algorithm?

Sheri Otto (19:04.472)

So, the number one thing algorithms prioritize is watch time.

If your video is five minutes long, most people won’t watch the whole thing. That’s why you need to keep your videos short—because watch time matters.

Inside your video, you can also use micro-hooks—mini hooks that keep people engaged throughout.

If you’re giving value, you want to build anticipation so there’s a big payoff at the end.

This aligns with the behavioral science principle called the curiosity gap (or information gap).

It works like this:

• You give people half of the information upfront.
• You let them know they’ll get the rest at the end.
• This keeps them engaged because they want to stick around for the full answer.

The result? Increased watch time.

And when the algorithm detects higher watch time, it pushes your video to more people.

I can’t guarantee you’ll go viral, but this strategy will help you get more impressions.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:16.749)

That’s huge!

I love that you're tying psychology into this. I was a psych major too, so I love applying human behavior to marketing strategy.

And what you’re describing reminds me of classic storytelling techniques—building tension and getting people to lean in.

Sheri Otto (20:44.189)

Exactly!

And you don’t even have to say, “Wait until the end.”

Instead, you could say:

"There are three go-to-market strategies shaping the market today."

Then, in the first 50 seconds, you give two of them—and people want to stay for the third.

The third point doesn’t come until the last five or ten seconds—but by structuring your video this way, you increase watch time while still providing value.

It’s all about using behavioral science to stop the scroll and keep people engaged.

I love doing this! I always analyze my videos and ask myself, How did this one perform? Some will get great reach, others won’t.

But that’s why you iterate. You test different hooks, different structures, and eventually, you’ll find the ones that work best.

And when you find a winning format, replicate it!

Sheri Otto (21:52.556)

Use the same hook format, the same text strategy, and keep testing.

There’s no silver bullet, but these tactics will get you closer to increasing reach.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:02.185)

Love that! So helpful.

Now, for people listening who love these insights but feel overwhelmed—what’s the first step to getting started?

Sheri Otto (22:17.578)

Okay, I’ll break it down into steps because I love concrete action plans.

1. Recognize that you’re an expert.
   
   
   • You already have valuable insights that people need to hear.
2. Start capturing your thoughts.
   
   
   • Use a voice recorder, notes app, or Otter.ai to speak your ideas—don’t overthink it.
3. Block time on your calendar.
   
   
   • Dedicate time to talk through three key topics or questions your audience has.
4. Use ChatGPT to structure your content.
   
   
   • Ask it to format your notes into bulleted takeaways, a strong hook, and a CTA.
5. Batch your videos.
   
   
   • Don’t just film one—film at least three at a time.
   • If you’ve been doing this for a while, aim for six.
6. Keep it short and authentic.
   
   
   • No fancy editing. No overthinking. Just be real.
7. Schedule your content.
   
   
   • Once it's ready, schedule it so it goes out consistently.

And that’s it!

For example, while we’re recording this podcast, I have a pre-scheduled video going live—I don’t even have to think about it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:31.165)

This is so helpful, Sheri!

How can people connect with you and learn more?

Sheri Otto (24:40.558)

Yeah! You can find me on LinkedIn—just search Sheri Otto.

Or visit my website: growthlanestrategies.com.

There, you’ll find free resources, client case studies, and videos with even more tips.

I also offer free growth plan sessions, so if you want to go deeper, check that out!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:10.185)

Amazing. Thank you so much, Sheri—I learned a ton today.

I’d love to have you back on the show in the future!

Sheri Otto (25:21.272)

Thank you, Kerry! It was a pleasure to be here.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:23.818)

Thank you.

Kerry Curran, RBMA:

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you're struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth, you're not alone. That's why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real world success stories to help you scale faster. If you're serious about revenue growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a five star rating today. It helps us keep the game changing content coming.

New episodes drop regularly, so you don't want to miss out.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“Search is no longer just about Google—it’s a behavior happening everywhere, from TikTok and Amazon to ChatGPT and Perplexity. To win in this new era, brands need to deeply understand their audience and align their SEO, social strategy, and authenticity across every platform where discovery happens.” That’s a quote from Melíssa Harden and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hi there, I'm Kerry Curran, Fractional Chief Marketing Officer, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth.

In this episode, titled Mastering Search Intelligence: Ranking Strategies Across Social, AI, Voice, and Video, I'm joined by Melíssa Harden, VP of Search Intelligence at Digitas.

Melíssa and I discuss how search behavior has expanded far beyond Google. Today, brands must master ranking strategies across platforms—from TikTok to Amazon, from ChatGPT to Perplexity, as well as voice search and video content.

This episode offers a forward-looking guide for marketers to thrive in the ever-evolving digital landscape while driving revenue growth. Let’s go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.155)

Welcome, Melíssa! Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Melíssa Harden (00:07.118)

Yeah, thank you so much, Kerry. My name is Melíssa Harden, and I am the VP of Search Intelligence at Digitas in the U.S. I have an extensive background in SEO and digital marketing. I swear I’m still young, but I’m approaching 18 years in the industry!

My experience spans a variety of sectors. I worked at Meredith in the publications space when commerce publishing was just taking off. I’ve also been part of the startup world in the tech industry and have done significant work in commerce and retail.

I’ve had the opportunity to experience search from multiple perspectives—whether at scale or in unique B2B applications. I’ve been tracking Google’s evolution for a long time, analyzing and dissecting changes to understand where search is heading.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:11.446)

Well, I’m really excited to have you on! To start, I think your role is a testament to the importance of search—it’s impressive that you have a search intelligence title. Can you share more about what that entails?

Melíssa Harden (01:30.722)

Yeah, great question! Search intelligence isn’t something you typically see when looking for an SEO role. It’s more about understanding the current state of search and how multiple factors are converging at once.

When people hear SEO, they often think only of Google. One of the key messages I try to evangelize is that search is a behavior, and it happens across every platform.

At Digitas, we focus on emerging search trends—not just Google and its market share, but also TikTok search, emerging search engines like Perplexity and ChatGPT, and how users search within Amazon or Walmart. All of these platforms shape how people discover information.

Winning in search today requires more than just technical SEO or content SEO. Brands need to consider their audience, branding, social strategy, CRM, and customer loyalty programs—all of which impact search rankings and visibility.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:54.634)

Absolutely. I started my digital marketing career as an SEO manager back when title tags and descriptions were the most important factors—way back in the aughts! It’s fascinating how search has evolved.

You touched on how consumer search behavior is shifting across multiple platforms. Can you dive deeper into the behavioral trends you’re seeing and how they’re driving platform innovation?

Melíssa Harden (03:30.018)

Definitely. About three years ago, search behavior started expanding beyond Google in a significant way. TikTok was one of the first platforms to challenge Google in terms of search behavior.

Platforms like Pinterest, TikTok, and YouTube became search destinations because users preferred their content formats. Instead of clicking on a webpage in Google, users could watch short-form videos on TikTok, create vision boards on Pinterest, or find in-depth video content on YouTube.

This shift forced platforms like TikTok to evolve into search engines, even though that wasn’t their original intent. Users started treating them like search engines, which meant these platforms had to adjust their algorithms and product teams had to rethink their approach.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:40.706)

That makes a lot of sense. Amazon is another example—it’s now the #1 platform for product discovery. Nobody browses Amazon; everyone goes straight to the search bar.

How do you see AI-driven search engines like ChatGPT and Perplexity fitting into this evolution?

Melíssa Harden (07:21.026)

It’s the same pattern we saw with TikTok—AI platforms weren’t originally built to be search engines, but user behavior is forcing them to become one.

ChatGPT was initially launched to assist with productivity and content generation, but users started asking it questions like they would on Google. The challenge was that early versions of ChatGPT only had data up until 2021.

Now, OpenAI has integrated real-time search capabilities, using Bing’s search data. They initially planned to launch “Search GPT” separately but quickly realized people don’t want to switch between two platforms. So now, ChatGPT merges AI-driven responses with live web search results.

Meanwhile, Perplexity has become an AI-powered search engine with a different approach. Unlike ChatGPT, Perplexity doesn’t have a direct Google partnership, but its top results often align with Google’s top 10 rankings. It also includes citations and links, making it a more transparent search experience than some AI platforms that just generate answers without crediting sources.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:48.938)

That’s fascinating! And you mentioned that Perplexity is growing at a rapid rate. Tell us more about that.

Melíssa Harden (10:55.342)

Yes! I didn’t run the data myself, but I’ve seen reports that Perplexity is growing at 70% month-over-month. That’s huge. For comparison, ChatGPT is growing around 40-45% per month, which is still impressive.

If this trajectory continues, projections suggest ChatGPT could rival Google in four years. That might seem like a long time, but in tech evolution, four years is nothing.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:24.372)

That’s a big shift for marketers. How should brands and agencies prepare for these changes?

Melíssa Harden (12:38.850)

It comes down to knowing your audience. This sounds like a marketing cliché, but many brands think they know their audience when they actually don’t.

Audiences behave differently on different platforms. What works on Google isn’t the same as what works on TikTok, Amazon, or AI-driven platforms. Also, authenticity is more critical than ever. With AI-generated content flooding the internet, consumers are questioning what’s real. Brands need to be transparent, show their people, and engage in meaningful ways.

Google and AI search engines now factor in brand authority, engagement, and user experience—it’s not just about keywords anymore. Social signals, digital PR, and content engagement all contribute to rankings.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:42.452)

I love that. A lot of the brand strategy work I’ve been doing lately focuses on authenticity and audience connection. It’s a lot to think about, but starting with the audience is the right foundation.

Melíssa, any final tips or advice?

Melíssa Harden (20:13.786)

Yes—stay informed and embrace change. This moment reminds me of the late 1990s, when businesses still relied on Yellow Pages ads, unsure about the internet’s potential.

Today, we’re at another turning point with AI-driven search. It will be bumpy for the next few years, but brands that adapt and integrate their marketing efforts across channels will win.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:08.884)

That’s such great advice. Before we wrap up, tell everyone where they can follow your insights and content.

Melíssa Harden (21:30.530)

For professional inquiries, you can reach me at Melíssa.harden@digitas.com.

For industry insights, my husband and I started a YouTube podcast called The Search Bar—you can find us at Harden Search Bar on YouTube. Instead of just discussing search over dinner, we decided to put some mics in front of us!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:16.106)

That’s awesome! We’ll link to everything in the show notes. Melíssa, thank you so much—this was fantastic. Looking forward to seeing you next week!

Melíssa Harden (22:28.760)

Same here! Thanks, Kerry.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

If you want to win on Amazon, you’re not just marketing to consumers—you’re marketing to an algorithm. The brands that succeed are the ones that understand how to send the right signals, drive real engagement, and turn visibility into sustained growth." In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, host Kerry Curran is joined by Samir Bhavnani from Product Wind and Shari Brown from Central Garden & Pet to discuss an innovative strategy that’s reshaping how brands gain visibility and drive sales on Amazon. 👉 Listen in to learn how you can leverage influencers to boost your Amazon rankings and drive real revenue growth!"🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

In this episode titled, Unlocking CPG Growth: Collaboration, Innovation, and Retail Media Strategies, we sit down with Kris McDermott, a seasoned expert in omni-channel marketing and retail media strategies, to discuss how CPG companies can unlock sustainable growth in today’s competitive landscape. Kris shares actionable insights on fostering cross-functional collaboration, driving innovation, and leveraging retail media as a critical growth lever. From breaking down silos between brand and retail media teams to testing innovative strategies with a calculated risk-tolerance mindset, this conversation is packed with strategies for driving category growth and reversing declines. Whether you’re in CPG, retail, or a business leader looking to optimize marketing investments, this episode offers valuable advice you can apply immediately.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

“Today, social listening isn't just about monitoring conversations. It's about uncovering actionable insights that can shape the trajectory of an organization. From identifying emerging cultural trends to driving product innovation and refining marketing strategies, social listening provides a unique window into the voice of the consumer. It's not just a tool for the social media team.It's a powerful resource that spans across departments, creating opportunities to stay ahead of market shifts and delivering greater value to consumers.” That's a quote from Frank Gregory and a sneak peek at today's episode. 

Hi there. I'm Kerry Curran, Fractional Chief Growth Officer, Industry Analyst and host of Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth.

In today's episode titled, The Power of Consumer Conversations, Turning Social 

Data Into Dollars, I sat down with my friend and former teammate, Frank Gregory. He's the head of social intelligence at Nestlé USA. He's leading some amazing research over at Nestlé and I'm super excited to share it with you today. From fast moving cultural trends to slow brewing consumer shifts. Frank shares real world examples of how Nestlé uses social data to uncover opportunities, stay ahead of competitors, and connect more meaningfully with audiences. 

Whether it's creating new products inspired by emerging trends or fine tuning marketing campaigns with hyper relevant data, this episode is packed with actual insights on leveraging social intelligence to turn data into dollars.

Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.454)
Welcome, Frank. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Frank Gregory (00:07.732)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kerry. It's great to be on, and thank you for having me. I'm Frank Gregory, and I lead Social Intelligence for Nestlé USA. What that means is everything related to social listening, but also broader social research—any insights that can be gleaned from social media conversation.

My background: I've been in the marketing space for my entire career—over 15 years. I started off in more of a brand strategy role and then pivoted more and more into social and digital as I saw the world shifting that way. I just kind of fell in love with social listening—back in the original days of Twitter, and that was about it at first. Then it expanded into how we incorporate Instagram, Reddit, and other emerging channels over the years.

It’s been exciting to watch the capability become more sophisticated—not just looking at what people are saying, the volume, or sentiment, but getting into audience identification, influencer insights, and deeper learning. So I’ve really enjoyed being on this journey through the ever-changing world of social media research.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:35.876)
Awesome. Excellent, Frank. I know you and I worked together way, way back when social agencies were still kind of new-ish—organic social was still evolving and we were getting more strategic with paid social back at the M80/GroupM team. So it's always good to catch up with you.

In my experience, I’ve always loved customer data, research data, and insights that help you get smarter about your target consumer—the purchase journey, pain points, everything. Getting that data directly from the consumer in the more free-form format of social listening versus surveys is so fascinating. So talk a bit about how you’ve seen social listening evolve and how the value of that data has grown.

Frank Gregory (03:03.778)
Yeah, absolutely. In the early days of social listening—and this is still the case in some organizations—it was really just a tool to help inform the social team that was putting together content and maybe some light social strategy work that would feed into a broader marketing plan. But that was about it.

I think part of that limited scope came from the name itself—social media listening—so organizations assumed it belonged solely to the social team. But what we’re seeing now is that more innovative organizations are expanding the use of social listening and applying it to many other aspects of the business.

A big reason I was excited to join Nestlé is that I don’t sit within the social strategy or community team—I sit within the Consumer & Marketplace Insights (CMI) team. So I work alongside traditional researchers—people doing surveys, focus groups, product testing—and what I do is provide a complementary view from social conversation data.

That gives me the ability to work with a broader range of stakeholders: the innovation team, R&D, CorpCom, even food scientists. They're asking: What are people saying about new flavors or formulations? It expands the value of the data when you redefine social listening not just as a social team tool—but as a business intelligence tool.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:25.036)
Yes, and the key aspect of that is listening—you're tuning into the unaided conversation about your brand, your product, your category, across the platforms. It’s so smart and must be incredibly insight-rich.

Frank Gregory (05:46.222)
Absolutely. Even before Nestlé, when I was on the agency and consulting side, I’d often approach market researchers and sometimes they’d see me as a bit of a threat. They were focused on surveys, focus groups, and product testing, and wondered what this “social listening guy” was all about.

But I always positioned social listening as complementary. Early in my career, I worked with traditional research as well, and I’d say: “Use social listening before a focus group or survey to identify what’s already being said. Or use it after to validate what you heard.”

If three people in a focus group say something interesting, you can check social to see if that idea is echoed across a broader population. Is it an emerging insight or just a blip? Social helps you find that out.

Of course, unless everyone in the general population posts on social equally about everything—which they don’t—social listening won’t ever be fully representative. Some people just don’t post, or post less frequently. That’s why it’s a complement, not a replacement.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:27.448)
So smart—and I love those examples. You’re right, expanding your data sources is just so important. So talk a bit about how the different business units at Nestlé are using the insights you're generating.

Frank Gregory (08:48.588)
Absolutely. Like I mentioned, I sit within CMI, so my first stakeholders were the traditional insight researchers. A close second was the social strategy and community teams, of course—they’re always hungry for audience and cultural trend insights.

But beyond that, I now work with marketing innovation teams who want to know: What’s the next great flavor or variety that might inspire a new product for Stouffer’s or Coffee Mate, for example?

Then you’ve got R&D asking broader questions—are there completely new categories we should explore? They’re thinking about shifts in health, wellness, sustainability, and food culture overall.

And one of the best parts of being in CMI is that I get to collaborate with our foresight team. They focus on predicting what’s three to five years out—how is culture shifting? How are consumer perceptions evolving?

The way we work together is now being called the Foresight Ecosystem—it’s not just foresight and social intelligence operating separately. We feed each other. For example, they might see a trend in aging or wellness, and I’ll dig into social data to find out how people are really talking about it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:41.924)
So, so smart. I’ve worked with CPG brands in the past where we’d try to show them consumer trends through search or video or even regional spikes—but not everyone was receptive. So I love how Nestlé is really embracing this.

Frank Gregory (12:10.850)
Yeah, and tools have evolved too. If you haven’t touched a social listening platform in a few years, you might be surprised by how much they’ve changed.

For example, there are now emerging trend prediction tools that combine search data with social data. That gives you a much more complete view.

You can go even deeper into audience insight too—who are the people talking about these trends? What else do they care about? That’s where the real sophistication starts.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:52.162)
I love that. One thing you mentioned to me before was the idea of fast culture versus slow culture. Can you give us some examples?

Frank Gregory (13:19.180)
Yeah, great question. Fast culture is those quick, viral moments—like a couple weeks ago, Kraft trended on social because someone opened a mac and cheese box and there was no sauce packet. That one consumer experience turned into a viral conversation.

She also happened to be looking for healthier mac and cheese options, so we jumped in—not just with Stouffer’s, but with other healthier options in the Nestlé portfolio. That’s fast culture—you need to be ready to act quickly.

On the other hand, slow culture is something like GLP-1 weight loss drugs—Ozempic, Mounjaro, etc. That started bubbling up about a year and a half ago with fitness influencers, but hadn’t hit mainstream yet. Because we were listening early, we started tracking it immediately.

That led to executive-level brainstorms and eventually product development—Nestlé just launched Vital Pursuit, a new line of frozen meals designed for GLP-1 consumers. We were the first in our category to market with that because we heard it first on social.

So that’s just one example. But there are many where fast culture evolves into slow culture. Like Girl Dinner—why did that resonate so widely? We caught it early through social trends, but then our foresight team was able to unpack the “why.” What’s the shift in consumer behavior and perceptions that made that trend take off? That insight can lead to real innovation—future products on shelves.

So we’re always monitoring both fast-moving and slower-building trends on a weekly basis to see what could impact the food and beverage space.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:00.162)
Yeah, definitely. I feel like pickles are trending right now. All of a sudden there are pickle martinis, pickle loaves, pickle everything. Is Nestlé jumping on that trend at all?

Frank Gregory (17:15.630)
Ha! I couldn’t say for sure if we’ll jump on that trend, but I can tell you that our beverage division, especially Coffee Mate, is always hungry for those types of moments.

When you think about the coffee concoctions that are trending on TikTok or elsewhere—those teams are paying close attention. And you even see how Coffee Mate is now testing Cocktail Mate, so there’s always experimentation going on with where coffee creamer can play.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:43.492)
Yep, or espresso martinis. Maybe they’ll do an espresso martini flavor! I hope that’s coming out.

Frank Gregory (17:44.108)
Exactly! And thinking back about six months ago, there was the dirty soda trend—mixing soda with coffee creamer. That trend led to a Coffee Mate partnership with Dr. Pepper. So who knows? Maybe we’ll see a pickle-flavored something or other in the near future.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:26.084)
As long as it’s not pickle-flavored Coffee Mate... although who knows, it might make a good April Fool’s flavor. 😄

We can’t have a conversation about data and intelligence without talking about AI. So can you share how you’ve seen AI tools help democratize access to social insights and make your work even smarter?

Frank Gregory (19:02.548)
Absolutely. AI innovation is something I think about every single day.

Even just during the 6–12 months when we were evaluating different tools, things were evolving so fast. One week a vendor would announce a new AI capability, and the next week, another would launch something even more advanced. It kept our scorecards and evaluations in constant motion.

Where we landed is that there are a few major applications of AI in social intelligence right now:

First, for anyone who’s ever written social listening queries—Boolean logic can be complex. Now, AI can do about 75% of that work for you, writing the initial query. That alone is a huge time-saver.

Second, from a democratization standpoint, we now include AI-generated summaries in every dashboard we create—brand-level, category-level, cultural trends, all of it.

And that AI summary shows up at the top of every dashboard, so if you're a stakeholder short on time, you can still get the key takeaways at a glance. We also email weekly PDF versions of the dashboards to hundreds of stakeholders—and those emails include the same AI summaries in the body copy.

So if you’ve only got 30 seconds before a meeting, you’re still getting real value from the insights, even if you don’t open the full dashboard.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:18.180)
That’s brilliant. So efficient and scalable.

Frank Gregory (21:26.990)
Yeah, and the biggest game-changer is query-less listening. That’s where AI is really starting to shine.

We’ve got always-on queries for brands, competitors, key categories—like pizza, coffee, chocolate, etc. But now we can also use tools that allow us to just type in a broader theme, like nostalgia or healthy aging, and the AI will return all the relevant conversations—even if people aren’t using those exact words.

It understands related conversations and behaviors. So it’s no longer just about finding exact keywords—it’s about listening to the unknown.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:39.801)
That’s such a smart leap forward.

Frank Gregory (22:48.718)
Yeah, perfect example—Girl Dinner. There’s no way we would’ve predicted that phrase or created a specific query in advance. But because we had broader queries running on snacking and food behaviors, the AI recognized Girl Dinner as related and flagged it for us early.

So it’s about letting the tools get smarter—and they are.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:24.686)
Incredible. I’ve learned so much from you already, Frank. For marketers or brands who aren’t yet doing this kind of social intelligence work—what’s the best way to get started?

Frank Gregory (23:40.034)
Start with your goals.

Ask yourself and your stakeholders: “What insights do I wish we had from social media?” Then group those into themes or priorities. Once you know what you want to uncover, it becomes much easier to build a scorecard for evaluating the right tools.

Demo core social listening platforms, but also look at emerging trend tools, audience segmentation platforms, and more.

And don’t feel like you need the full enterprise stack to begin. If you’re working with a smaller budget, you can still get a lot of value with just 10–15 well-crafted queries focused on key areas.

Show early wins. Prove that the insights you’re uncovering from social are actionable and valuable to your organization. Once leadership sees the impact, it becomes much easier to expand your capabilities over time.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (29:57.294)
So smart, Frank. Thank you so much. How can people find you and follow your work?

Frank Gregory (30:04.108)
Best place is LinkedIn—I’m active there and respond to messages. I also highly recommend checking out the Social Intelligence Lab. They run fantastic events and publish great content on social research trends and best practices. I’m involved in their community, along with many peers in the space.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:38.532)
Perfect. Thank you again, Frank! It’s always great to catch up with you—and I always learn something from our conversations. Can’t wait to have you back again soon.

Frank Gregory (30:51.402)
Absolutely. Thanks again, Kerry—really appreciate the opportunity.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:57.572)
Take care!

I hope you found this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast as valuable as I did. Frank's data and research has such a huge impact on informing both business and product strategy.

If you found this helpful, be sure to subscribe to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast for more expert advice on smarter marketing strategies. We can be found in all the top podcast directories. 

And please, connect with me, Kerry Curran, on LinkedIn or at Revenue Based Marketing where I share more expert advice and past podcast episodes. If your revenue needs a boost, ask me about my consulting and Fractional Chief Growth Officer services. Thank you.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"Most companies focus on acquiring new customers, but in recurring revenue businesses, 70–90% of revenue comes from existing customers. If you're not investing in retention and expansion, you're leaving your biggest growth lever untapped.” Roee Hartuv In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast titled, Revenue and Retention: Why Customer Success Is Key to Sustainable Growth host Kerry Curran is joined by Roee Hartuv, Head of Revenue Architecture at Winning by Design, to unpack a mindset shift that B2B companies must embrace to grow sustainably: true revenue growth doesn’t end at the closed-won stage—it begins there. Drawing from his experience advising recurring revenue businesses around the world, Roee breaks down how the traditional go-to-market model focused almost entirely on new acquisition—is no longer enough. He introduces the “bowtie” framework, a more holistic approach to GTM that prioritizes retention, expansion, and customer lifetime value. Throughout the conversation, you’ll learn: Why 70–90% of recurring revenue comes from existing customers—and why most companies are underinvesting in that opportunity How customer success can become a strategic growth engine not just a support function Why expansion is more efficient than acquisition, and how to resource accordingly How to structure high-performing CS pods to support mid-market and enterprise clients Ways to equip account managers with the mindset and messaging to grow accounts without sounding “salesy” The critical role of marketing in supporting post-sale growth, from product updates to thought leadership And why companies should stop thinking of GTM as a funnel and start treating it as a bowtie This episode is a must-listen for marketing, sales, RevOps, and customer success leaders who are ready to drive sustainable revenue growt not just this quarter, but long-term. If you're serious about building a revenue engine that lasts, this one’s for you."🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

"The key to driving revenue in mobile commerce is creating seamless connections between inspiration and action. When you optimize the shopper's journey—from the moment of intent to the point of purchase—you unlock value for retailers, creators, and consumers alike." – Michael Jaconi In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled, Mobile Commerce 2.0: Boosting Retailer Revenue with Better Shopper Experience, host Kerry Curran dives into the evolving world of mobile commerce and its impact on retailer revenue. Joined by mobile monetization expert Michael Jaconi, the discussion centers on how retailers can optimize mobile experiences to create seamless shopper journeys that drive meaningful revenue growth. Discover how innovations in link optimization, attribution, and mobile-first strategies are transforming the way retailers connect with consumers. From empowering creators and influencers to improving app functionality, this episode reveals how a better shopper experience leads to bigger profits. Whether you're a retailer, marketer, or strategist, tune in for actionable insights to elevate your mobile commerce game and maximize revenue opportunities!"🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

“Amazon optimization today isn't just about keywords. It's about creating a compelling narrative with your images, content, and product attributes. AI now plays a crucial role in reading and interpreting your images and text to rank your listings. If you can convince the algorithm that your product is valuable, you're also convincing the customer. It's about aligning both the technical and human aspects of the shopping experience to maximize visibility and conversion.” That's a quote from Jon Tilley and a sneak peek at today's episode. 

Hi there. I'm Kerry Curran, Fractional Chief Growth Officer, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive your business growth.

In this episode titled, Cracking the Amazon Algorithm: Strategies for Increased Visibility and Revenue. I'm joined by Jon Tilley. He's the Founder and CEO of ZonGuru. Jon and I discuss cutting edge strategies for cracking Amazon's ever changing algorithm, leveraging AI for smarter listing optimization and creating winning product narrative. Jon shares actionable insights to help brands boost visibility, conversions and revenue.

Stay tuned to the end where John shares tips for adapting Amazon's Rufus AI shopping assistant.

Whether you're an established seller or just starting out, this episode is packed with tips to help you dominate the Amazon marketplace and grow your bottom line. Let's go!

 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.48)

Welcome, Jon! Please tell us a bit about yourself, your expertise, and ZonGuru.

Jon Tilley (00:10.136)

Hey, Kerry, thanks! I appreciate being here.

We have a technology company in the Amazon space. If you are a brand or an agency selling products on Amazon, you can use our technology as a third-party software provider to help you operationally run your business, drive organic growth, and increase profits.

We offer over 18 different tools, but we are particularly known for our leadership in Amazon SEO—helping brands structure their content and storefronts to maximize organic growth by aligning with Amazon’s algorithm. We’ve been around since 2016, and that’s us in a nutshell!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:58.638)

Excellent! Now, tell us a bit about your background and expertise.

Jon Tilley (01:04.344)

Yeah, as you can probably tell, my accent is originally from South Africa, where I grew up. I moved to Los Angeles in 2006, so I’ve been here for quite some time.

I started my career in advertising, working at large global digital agencies for about 12 to 15 years. I covered everything from below-the-line to through-the-line marketing, integrated digital agencies—you know, the full evolution of the agency world.

I spent some time in Europe launching Burger King’s Have It Your Way campaign, then moved to Los Angeles, working with large brands. I also got involved in enterprise application development, which was my first real exposure to the tech world.

But I’ve always had that entrepreneurial drive. In 2013, I launched my own brands on Amazon, which did really well. That success allowed me to leave my corporate job and dive into my own business full-time.

In 2016, I saw an opportunity in the Amazon space as a third-party software provider and launched ZonGuru—short for "Amazon Guru." We bootstrapped it for several years before raising a funding round in 2021.

I’ve now spent 8 to 10 years navigating Amazon’s constant changes, which has been vibey, to say the least. It’s a massive industry, but also a rapidly evolving one. Running a business in this space means constantly adapting to new developments.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:14.758)

That’s fantastic. You’re right—few industries have evolved as rapidly as Amazon, e-commerce, and retail media.

And on top of that, you’re incorporating a lot of AI into your technology. You mentioned earlier that it’s an AI-first world now. Let’s dive into that—what recent shifts are you seeing in AI’s role in marketing strategies, particularly in the Amazon space? What are the opportunities and potential threats?

Jon Tilley (03:59.074)

Yeah, AI has been fascinating to watch. It’s a perfect example of why being first to market can give you a competitive advantage.

In our space, we have some massive competitors. But moving first on AI gave us an opportunity to differentiate.

At the same time, despite Amazon’s dominance in e-commerce, their internal technology is actually quite backward. That creates opportunities for third-party software providers like us because we can take Amazon’s data and visualize it in ways that Amazon itself struggles to do.

A lot of people worry about Amazon rolling out its own AI-driven features—like their new AI-powered listing optimization tool. But every time Amazon launches something like that, it actually provides more data, giving companies like ours the chance to do it better.

For example, at Amazon’s Accelerate conference, they showcased their AI-driven listing optimization tool—but they made a mistake by including a trademarked term (Aviators for Ray-Ban) in an optimized title. That kind of error shows how much room there is for third-party solutions to do it better.

So, rather than fearing Amazon’s AI developments, we see them as opportunities to leverage new data and refine our own tools.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:55.213)

That’s such a great perspective—seeing AI as a tool to enhance opportunities rather than a threat.

Talk more about how you were able to move so quickly when AI started gaining momentum.

Jon Tilley (06:13.444)

We recognized the potential of AI early—back in November 2022, when ChatGPT was first gaining traction. We immediately saw it as a game-changer, not just for our industry but for consumer experiences overall.

Much like how Amazon Prime’s one-day shipping changed shopping behavior forever, AI is transforming how people interact with brands.

So, in December 2022, we dedicated a full month to integrating ChatGPT into our platform. We were one of the first companies to get API access and use it for Amazon listings.

Before AI, optimizing an Amazon listing could take up to an hour. With our AI integration, sellers could generate a baseline optimized listing in under a minute—structured correctly for the algorithm right out of the gate.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:18.47)

That’s incredible.

Jon Tilley (07:41.102)

Yeah, but here’s the key—we never positioned AI as a replacement for human creativity.

Coming from the agency world, you’ll appreciate this: AI should be a tool, not a substitute for expertise.

We use AI to create a well-structured baseline, but then we provide additional insights and tools so that brand owners or agencies can refine and enhance it.

Instead of spending hours building a listing from scratch, experts can now focus on elevating it from 9/10 to 11/10. That’s where AI truly shines.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:38.342)

That’s such a smart approach. It makes you more efficient and effective—helping you quickly understand what works while leaving room for human creativity and brand identity.

Tell us more about how you’re using AI for your clients.

Jon Tilley (09:34.468)

Sure. AI plays a few critical roles:

1. Listing Optimization – AI helps structure content for Amazon’s algorithm while leaving room for creative refinement.
2. Amazon’s Rufus AI Shopping Assistant – Amazon is shifting toward AI-driven shopping experiences, and we’re helping brands optimize their listings for Rufus (Amazon’s AI).
3. AI-Driven Visual Optimization – AI now reads product images, so we optimize both text and visual content for ranking.

For example, we can analyze product images using AI to see what the algorithm actually detects. If there’s too much text overlay or the images aren’t aligned with key search terms, AI will identify that, helping brands improve their conversions.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:55.496)

That’s brilliant. Understanding how AI reads images and refining them accordingly is a huge opportunity.

Let’s shift gears to the broader AI landscape. You mentioned how AI is also impacting Google Search, ChatGPT, and Perplexity. What’s your take on those shifts?

Jon Tilley (17:31.062)

Organic traffic from Google is dropping as AI-powered search engines like ChatGPT and Perplexity gain traction.

Consumers prefer AI-generated results over paid search results, and that’s changing the game. Now, brands need to optimize not just for Google, but for AI-driven search engines too.

Perplexity, for example, has launched its own AI-driven shopping assistant, pulling in results from Google, Amazon, and beyond. Understanding how AI ranks and surfaces content is the next frontier.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:38.436)

That’s such an important takeaway.

Jon, this has been an amazing conversation. Where can people find you and learn more about ZonGuru?

Jon Tilley (22:45.698)

You can check out zonguru.com. There’s a demo, a free trial, and live chat if you're an e-commerce brand and curious about what we offer.

You can also reach me directly—email me at jon@zonguru.com or connect with me on LinkedIn

.Just mention Kerry’s podcast and I’ll be happy to set up a free growth audit.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:23.342)

Awesome—thank you, Jon! Looking forward to checking back in six months to see how AI has evolved even further.

Jon Tilley (23:37.57)

Yeah, you'll be speaking to my avatar AI intelligent form rather than me. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Thank you.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:39.698)

That's true. I won't even need to, our avatars will speak to each other.

I hope you found this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast as valuable as I did. Jon shared great tips on leveraging AI tools for Amazon's success. 

If you found this helpful, be sure to subscribe to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast for more expert advice on smarter marketing strategies. We can be found in all of the top podcast directories. 

Please connect with me, Kerry Curran, on LinkedIn or at https://www.revenuebasedmarketing.com/

 where I share more expert advice and past podcast episodes. If your revenue needs a boost, ask me about my consulting and fractional chief growth officer services. Thank you!

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🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“When you combine onsite inventory with the retailer's audience data, magic happens. It's all about leveraging the right data to show the right ads to the right shoppers. And that's where real gains are made.” That's a quote from Harsh Jiandani and a sneak peek at today's episode.

In this episode titled Retail Media's Next Frontier: Unifying Onsite, Offsite, and In-Store Advertising. I'm joined by Harsh Jandani, Chief Commercial Officer of Koddi, a commerce media tech company. 

Harsh and I discuss the evolving landscape of retail media and advanced strategies unifying onsite, offsite, and in-store advertising channels, as well as the challenges and opportunities in addressing data fragmentation across the retail media networks.

Stay tuned to the end where Harsh shares his expert predictions for the next three to five years, including the rise of shoppable CTV and smarter auction systems.

This episode is packed with insights and strategies for brands and retailers looking to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving market. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.152):
So welcome, Harsh. Please introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your background and expertise.

Harsh Jiandani (00:07.017):
Hi everyone. My name is Harsh Jiandani. I'm the Chief Commercial Officer of Koddi, a retail media platform. I oversee sales, marketing, partnerships, and strategy for the company. I've been here for about a year and a half. Before this, I was at Microsoft as Chief Revenue Officer of Promote IQ. Prior to that, I spent eight and a half years at AppNexus/Xandr in various roles, ultimately launching Xandr Curate.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:34.75):
Excellent. So you've been in the industry for a while. You're quite an expert. Obviously, the e-commerce space in retail media has evolved very rapidly over the last few years. Can you talk about how you've seen the space evolve and what it’s been like having a front-row seat to these changes?

Harsh Jiandani (00:56.253):
It's been an exciting ride. Over the last five to seven years, retail media has felt like a rocket ship. It started with helping retailers launch and scale their programs, primarily focused on on-site advertising, such as sponsored listing ads, sponsored brand ads, and display ads. Now, it's expanded to include in-store advertising and leveraging data to target audiences offsite.

Another major evolution is retailers wanting more control over their programs. Early on, they were new to this space and transitioned overnight from being retailers to becoming some of the largest media businesses in the world. They relied heavily on external help. Now, as the space matures, retailers are seeking more control.

One notable trend is the growing fragmentation of retail media networks. There are now 200 to 400 networks, depending on who you ask, which has created new challenges for the industry. There's a big push to connect all this supply into a single access point for buyers.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:36.298):
Definitely. How are you seeing brands and technology platforms approach data integration? How are we getting smarter in a world of walled gardens and protected data?

Harsh Jiandani (02:54.259):
Let’s start by looking at the retailer side and then move to the brand side. Initially, retail media programs were based purely on keywords—advertisers bid on keywords that shoppers searched for. The next phase was SKU-based targeting, where ads were displayed based on specific products users searched for or browsed.

Now, we're in a third phase where retailers use customer data to enrich and inform the experience. Depending on the shopper, they might see different ads, and even the number of ads displayed can vary. This audience data overlays with SKU targeting, allowing retailers to adjust bids when reaching specific audiences.

On the brand side, things have also become more sophisticated. While brands still rely on keywords, they're increasingly trying to overcome fragmentation while targeting at the SKU level. Brands are working to integrate audience data and improve measurement through tools like Media Mix Modeling (MMM), but this area still presents challenges.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:17.928):
How have you seen the ability to capture and optimize data evolve? Where do you think it stands today?

Harsh Jiandani (05:28.125):
From the brand perspective, it’s been challenging. Retail media networks started as walled gardens, and brands have relied heavily on the measurement and audiences provided to them. Now, the biggest brands are pushing for more transparency, asking retailers to share the data they need to conduct their own media mix modeling instead of relying solely on retailers' return-on-ad-spend or incrementality metrics.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:32.756):
That’s a great point. From your perspective, where are the biggest opportunities for brands to get smarter in how they target and promote their products?

Harsh Jiandani (07:41.095):
Retailers are using data in two key ways: targeting and optimization. In terms of targeting, the real magic happens when on-site inventory is combined with audience data. Retailers can also use this data for off-site targeting, enabling campaigns that connect with shoppers across the web and social platforms.

For optimization, customer data is being worked directly into the auction process. Instead of relying just on keywords or SKUs, audience data now informs decisions about how many ads to show, what kinds of ads to display, and which products to promote—all tailored to the shopper’s profile.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:42.675):
What’s next? How are retailers getting smarter with their data to tie in offsite and offline strategies?

Harsh Jiandani (10:42.675):
The next frontier is using off-site data for broader advertising, including the open web and social platforms. Retailers are also exploring connected TV (CTV) partnerships, like those between Roku and Walmart, to create shoppable CTV ads. This helps move up the funnel and focus on awareness while balancing data privacy and avoiding commoditizing their data.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:32.286):
What do you see as the next big thing in retail media, whether in targeting, optimization, or offsite strategies?

Harsh Jiandani (11:47.731):
One of the biggest upcoming opportunities is in-store innovation. Around 80% of shopping still takes place in-store, and for grocery, it’s over 90%. Digital screens represent a significant growth area, but challenges like capital investment and vendor fragmentation remain. Retailers are working on unifying in-store solutions to make it easier for buyers to access this inventory.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:05.78):
Koddi has been at the forefront of innovation in retail media. Can you talk about how you’re evolving the marketplace and supporting smaller retailers?

Harsh Jiandani (13:38.835):
There’s a big opportunity for smaller retailers. They often struggle to attract advertisers due to limited scale, but aggregating their inventory can make it more accessible to advertisers in major demand-side platforms (DSPs). At Koddi, we’re investing in launching the industry’s first programmatic supply-side platform (SSP) that bridges sponsored listing inventory with major DSP buyers.

For larger retailers, programmatic advertising offers solutions for remnant inventory, and as tools improve, programmatic guaranteed deals could expand access to premium inventory as well.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:39.71):
Where do you see retail media heading in the next three to five years?

Harsh Jiandani (15:50.431):
I expect significant change across onsite, offsite, in-store, and video channels. Onsite, retailers will revisit how to use existing inventory more intelligently, similar to how Amazon and Facebook optimize their platforms.

For offsite, I see a unification of onsite, offsite, and in-store advertising into seamless solutions. Connected TV will continue gaining traction as a powerful tool for brand awareness. Meanwhile, in-store advertising will improve steadily as retailers overcome challenges like capital investment and vendor fragmentation.

Finally, connected TV and shoppable ads represent a massive opportunity. Unlike in-store innovation, which requires heavy capital investment, CTV can scale much faster and will likely play a key role in the coming years.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:03.026):
Excellent. Well, thank you, Harsh. Do you have any recommendations for either brands or retailers looking to take their programs to the next level?

Harsh Jiandani (18:14.931):
Sure, let’s start with retailers. I think they can elevate their programs by gaining more control. It’s about moving away from the "black box" approach—actually, let me rephrase that. I don’t want to call out what competitors are doing specifically.

I see a lot of opportunities for retailers to advance. The first step is gaining a deeper understanding of what they’re selling, how they’re selling it, who they’re selling to, and then working to maximize the pool of demand. This includes not only endemic advertisers but potentially non-endemic ones as well.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:07.73):
Excellent. Thank you, Harsh. So, how can people find you or learn more about the great innovations you and your team at Koddi are working on?

Harsh Jiandani (19:19.517):
Feel free to reach out to us. Our website is Koddi.com, and you can contact me directly at harsh.jiandani@Koddi.com. We’d be happy to connect and see how we can help.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:33.49):
This has been a really fascinating conversation, and I’ve loved hearing your predictions for the future. You’ll have to come back in three to five years so we can see which ones came true! Thank you so much for your time today—it was great having you on.

Harsh Jiandani (19:44.135):
I’d love to come back! You can hold my feet to the fire, for sure.

Harsh Jiandani (19:51.059):
Thank you for having me!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Unlocking Revenue Growth, the Power of Discovery Calls and Buyer Insights

“Discovery calls aren't just about making a sale. They're about truly understanding your buyer's world. It's about uncovering their challenges, learning their pain points, and showing them you genuinely care about their success. By asking thoughtful questions and actively listening, you build trust and create a connection that goes beyond the product or service you're offering.” That's a quote from Amanda Crooks and a sneak peek at today's episode.

In today's episode titled, Unlocking Revenue Growth, the Power of Discovery Calls and Buyer Insights, I'm joined by Amanda Crooks, Head of Sales and Marketing at Blink Metrics. Amanda and I had a great conversation where we discussed the critical role of discovery calls in driving revenue growth. 

Amanda shares her expertise on how asking the right questions, actively listening and understanding buyer pain points can not only build trust, but also uncover opportunities to create tailored solutions that resonate with prospective clients. Stay tuned to the end where Amanda shares tips on using learnings from discovery calls for your website content strategy. This episode will leave you equipped to turn conversations into conversions and boost your revenue potential. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.557)

Welcome, Amanda! Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Amanda Crooks (00:08.814)

Awesome, Kerry! Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. You know I'm a huge fan, so I really appreciate the opportunity to be here.

I’m Amanda Crooks, the Head of Sales and Marketing for Blink Metrics, an automated KPI tracking solution for small businesses.

A little bit about my background—it’s been a curvy path. I’ve worked in sales and marketing for a long time, including roles selling sponsorships for live events. I joined Blink Metrics from a large marketing agency.

I’ve always been a curious person—I love puzzles, and I also love encountering challenges in the workplace. A big part of my journey has been finding problems that aren’t quite solved and figuring out how to fit the different pieces together to create a solution, improve efficiency, or make something easier. It’s been really fun to apply those skills in sales and marketing.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:18.347)

Thank you, Amanda! We’re very excited to have you on.

Amanda and I actually met on LinkedIn, where we connected over our shared focus on building the interconnectivity between sales and marketing in lean environments. I’ve learned a lot from your posts, Amanda, and I’m excited to have you join us today!

In our previous conversations, we talked about the importance of strong alignment between marketing and sales—how marketing needs to fuel sales by providing the right content, messaging, and materials.

We’re seeing more and more data reinforcing that we’re in a buyer’s market these days. Buyers—especially in B2B and considered purchases—are spending more time researching, shortlisting their options, and engaging with content before ever speaking to a salesperson.

Because of that, it’s critical to get into the buyer’s mindset—to craft the right content that speaks to their needs while uncovering their pain points. One of the most important ways to do that is through the discovery call.

Amanda, let’s dive into your strategy and philosophy on how to conduct an effective discovery call.

Amanda Crooks (03:07.51)

Yes! Discovery calls are such a vast topic, and I know we’ll get into the details.

A huge part of my job is getting on the phone with people, talking through their specific situations, and understanding their pain points. But before they even get on a discovery call, they’ve already interacted with our website and marketing—so the first hurdle is making sure we’re positioned on their shortlist.

Once we’re on a discovery call, one of the most important aspects is really understanding what they’re trying to solve—the challenges they’re facing in their business.

My approach to discovery calls is simple: it’s called discovery for a reason. It’s about learning.

I was thinking about this earlier—it’s almost like an archaeological dig. Ideally, you get on a discovery call and uncover an entire dinosaur skeleton—you realize this prospect is the perfect fit for your solution. That’s the best-case scenario.

But even if you only find a piece of a broken pot, that’s still valuable. Every discovery call—whether it results in a sale or not—helps you learn something about your prospect, your product, and who is or isn’t the right fit.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:07.659)

Absolutely! And beyond just uncovering their challenges—which is obviously critical—you’re also building trust and establishing a relationship during that call.

Amanda Crooks (05:34.71)

Yes, trust is a huge piece of it.

When buyers are evaluating different solutions, one of the biggest mistakes companies make is jumping straight into a demo. They start talking about their product, their features, and what they do—without spending enough time asking questions about the buyer’s business.

The best discovery calls are all about learning:

• What are their processes?
• How does their business function?
• What’s already working well?
• What needs improvement?

Even if the buyer doesn’t fully realize what they need yet, your job is to discover that with them.

But trust doesn’t come from just asking questions—it comes from really listening. Not just listening so you can push them toward a sale, but truly empathizing with their situation.

At the end of the day, even in B2B sales, you’re selling to humans. That human connection goes a long way.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:02.399)

Yes! That’s such an important distinction.

I do a lot of discovery call coaching, and one of the biggest pitfalls I see is salespeople being so focused on what they’re going to ask next that they don’t actually listen to the answers.

The key to uncovering the “dinosaur bones” is active listening—paying attention to what they’re saying and asking thoughtful follow-up questions that might not be in your script.

Amanda Crooks (07:59.478)

Yes! I actually get in trouble with this sometimes because I’m so curious. I want to learn everything, and sometimes I ask too many questions about their business!

But that curiosity is valuable. Even when a question goes slightly outside our product’s scope, it helps paint a fuller picture of how we fit into their operations.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:09.387)

Do you have specific go-to questions that you always ask on discovery calls?

Amanda Crooks (09:29.944)

Yes, I actually have a whole document with about 100 different questions, categorized based on where we are in the conversation.

For example:

• Opening questions: “What encouraged you to book this call with us?”
• Deep-dive questions: “Can you tell me more about that?” or “You mentioned X—can you give me more context?”
• Urgency questions: “Is this a problem you needed solved six months ago, or is this more of a long-term initiative?”

Understanding urgency is key because it helps align your follow-up strategy. If someone is in research mode, you send them educational resources. If they’re in crisis mode, you focus on solving their pain point quickly.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:28.459)

That’s so smart!

Another best practice I use is sending prospects a preview of the questions before the call—not as a form to fill out (because no one wants homework), but just as a heads-up.

It helps them come prepared, especially if they need to gather data or check with colleagues. And for industries with confidentiality concerns, I always ask upfront if an NDA is required so we don’t have to reschedule the call.

Amanda Crooks (19:33.134)

That’s such a great approach!

Discovery calls don’t just benefit sales—they’re also a goldmine for marketing.

When people come to these calls, they’re revealing what they currently believe about your product—based on your website, social media, and messaging. If multiple prospects are asking the same clarifying question, that’s a sign you need to refine your messaging.

At Blink Metrics, I actually take notes during discovery calls and make updates to our website if I notice recurring questions. The ability to pivot messaging quickly is a huge advantage.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:47.209)

I love that! It reinforces how interconnected sales and marketing really are.

Amanda, this has been such a valuable conversation. Any final tips for people looking to improve their discovery calls?

Amanda Crooks (23:55.438)

Yes—two things:

1. Stay curious! Even if you’ve done 100 discovery calls, the 101st could be different.
2. Treat people like people. Sales is about human connection.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:01.451)

Such great advice. Thank you so much, Amanda!

How can people connect with you?

Amanda Crooks (25:13.91)

Find me Amanda Crooks on LinkedIn or at blinkmetrics.com.

Would love to connect—whether it’s about data, sales, or just to chat!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

To connect with Paul Wilson go to: pwilson@massivegrowthpartners.com

https://www.massivegrowthpartners.com/

Winning Every Stage: A Sales Framework for Sustainable Revenue Success

“You can't scale a business if the CEO is involved in every new business pitch. Transitioning from founder led sales to a team driven approach is essential for sustainable growth. It's not just about delegating. 

It's about empowering your team, showcasing their expertise and building trust with prospects. When a client sees a collaborative team approach, they feel confident they're hiring a company, not just a single leader. 

This shift not only frees up the CEO to focus on strategy and thought leadership, but creates a scalable sales process that drives long-term revenue success. That's a quote from Paul Wilson and a sneak peek at today's episode. 

Hi there. I'm Kerry Curran, business growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost, a marketing podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth for all businesses.

Founder-led growth is all the buzz today, but what do you do when it's time to scale? In this episode, Winning Every Stage: A Sales Framework for Sustainable Revenue Success. I'm joined by sales expert, Paul Wilson, founder of Massive Growth Partners, who shares his proven framework for scaling revenue with a team-driven sales approach. We discuss how CEOs can transition from founder-led sales to a scalable process that empowers their teams to drive growth.

Paul's actionable insights provide a roadmap for winning at every stage of the sales process. So whether you're a CEO, sales leader or marketer, this episode is packed with strategies to drive sustainable revenue success. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.166)

So, welcome, Paul. Please introduce yourself and tell us all about your background and expertise.

Paul (00:07.675)

Thanks, Kerry. Great to be here today. I’m Paul Wilson. I have over 20 years of experience as part of an executive team running sales and marketing.

I joined a company when it had 40 people, and we grew to 750 people, from $4 million to $75 million, through a successful acquisition. I then moved to RKG, a small search marketing agency in Charlottesville, Virginia, where we grew from $5 million to $30 million over three years and sold the company to Merkle.

Five years ago, I started a consulting firm helping CEOs of early-stage digital agencies and software companies grow revenue and scale their businesses. I focus on teaching a process called Winning Every Stage of the Sales Process, which emphasizes qualifying leads and defining your ideal customer profile (ICP). Who is your ideal customer? How do you qualify them? How do you conduct a discovery process? How do you leverage your learnings into the presentation? And how do you close more revenue?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:22.38)

Excellent, thank you! I’m excited to speak with you today. Fun fact for our listeners—Paul was my longtime boss and mentor. He taught me a lot of what I know and is responsible for much of my success. So, thank you, Paul! We’re excited to have you on.

As you mentioned, you speak with a lot of CEOs today. What are you hearing from them? What business challenges are they facing? What do they need—whether they realize it or not? What are they asking for?

Paul (01:58.053)

Right. When I speak to CEOs, one of the most common things I hear is, "I've been leading sales. How do I step out of it and still have the company grow and prosper?"

When they’re used to running every aspect of the business, it’s manageable at 5, 10, or even 15 people. But if they want to scale to 50 or 100 people and grow revenue from a few million to $15, $20, or $50 million, they need to put a process in place to scale.

They’ll ask me, "How do I do that? How do I develop a go-to-market plan? How do I step back while staying involved in thought leadership and key client relationships, while letting sales be handled by someone else?"

When I ask them about their sales performance, like "What are the top three reasons you win a new client?" or "What are the top three reasons you lose?", many CEOs don’t have clear data. So, I often start engagements by analyzing their sales data—why they win, why they lose—and reviewing recorded sales pitches. One of the great things about Zoom and Teams is that presentations are recorded, so you can analyze them.

What I often find is that sales calls aren’t conversations—they’re one-sided pitches. Sellers aren’t uncovering information or asking open-ended questions to understand the client’s real needs.

So, to answer your question, CEOs want to step back from sales but still have confidence in the process. The key is putting together a structured go-to-market plan, hiring the right people, creating the right compensation plan, and developing a team that can execute.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:47.052)

That makes sense. I love that you're helping CEOs recognize the need to evolve and get out of the weeds.

I’ve also noticed that many startups rely on founder-led growth—where the founder is the face and voice of the company. You’re coming in at a critical stage, helping them transition from founder-led growth to building a go-to-market team and strategy, leveraging data along the way. It’s fascinating how you pull all of that together.

Paul (05:15.471)

Yes! And one of the first things I often recommend is that CEOs stop pitching alone.

If I'm a client and I see a CEO pitching solo, I might wonder, "Will they have time to work on my account?" I want to meet the people who will actually be managing my business.

So, I help CEOs expand their sales teams while staying involved. Maybe an account manager presents a case study, or a key strategist customizes a strategy for the client.

Clients don’t want to hear about your agency or software—they want to know what you’re going to do for them. They want a presentation tailored to what you learned in the discovery process.

That’s why I advocate for a team-based sales approach—bringing two or three people into pitches to showcase the depth of the company. Over time, the CEO can step back and let others lead. This gives clients more confidence in your company because they see a team, not just a founder.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:09.776)

Absolutely. That’s such an important strategy.

You mentioned your Winning Every Stage framework. Can you walk us through the stages and how you coach teams through them?

Paul (07:14.457)

Sure! It starts with defining your ICP—your ideal customer profile. What size company? What verticals? What challenges do they face?

Once you define your ICP, you outline discovery questions. I teach teams to have a 30-minute discovery call where they don’t pitch at all—they just ask questions. They take notes, then use that information to tailor their presentation.

The presentation should be about the prospect, not you. Companies don’t care how many employees you have or where your offices are. They care about how you’ll solve their challenges.

I also teach when to ask open-ended questions (to uncover insights) and when to ask closed-ended questions (to confirm decisions). Too often, I watch sales calls where 27 minutes go by and the agency hasn’t asked the client a single question.

At the end of the presentation, I encourage a clear, direct close: "You told us your top priorities are A, B, and C. Now that we’ve covered those, are you ready to move forward?"

Too many pitches end with "We’ll send you the deck!" That doesn’t move the deal forward. I teach teams how to ask the right questions, handle objections, and confidently move through the sales process.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:54.088)

That’s such a great framework! Salespeople often struggle with listening instead of talking. They also hesitate to ask tough questions—like timing, decision criteria, or what they’re not getting from their current agency.

Your approach really ensures they dig deeper to uncover the real needs of the client.

Paul (14:09.573)

Exactly! And just as important as closing deals is retaining clients.

I always set up a system to check in with clients regularly. I’ve launched multiple Net Promoter Score (NPS) programs where we ask clients four questions every quarter:

1. Are we helping you meet your revenue goals?
2. What else can we do to help?
3. Would you recommend us?
4. How would you rate us on a scale of 1-10, both in terms of results and experience?

Tracking these scores quarter over quarter helps agencies retain clients and grow long-term. Many companies celebrate closing deals but don’t invest in keeping them. A structured feedback loop prevents surprises when contracts come up for renewal.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:11.018)

Such a smart strategy!

For CEOs who want to step out of sales, what’s the first thing they should do?

Paul (20:29.847)

First, analyze your win-loss data. Why are you winning? Why are you losing?

Then, transition gradually—don’t just stop selling overnight. Start by bringing others into pitches, then slowly step back. You’d be surprised how many team members enjoy presenting and want to take on more sales responsibility.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:54.082)

Great advice. How can people connect with you?

Paul (22:05.014)

Find me Paul Wilson on LinkedIn I’ve also launched Massive Growth Partners. I’d love to talk about sales!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:48.11)

Thank you, Paul! I appreciate your time and insights.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“Sales is a whole company responsibility. When organizations embrace that mindset, they perform better. It's not just about the sales team. It's about aligning every function from marketing to customer success to drive sustainable growth. That's a quote from Hannah Adjikawo and a sneak peek at today's episode.” 

Hi there, I'm Kerry Curran, business growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth for all businesses.

In “Revenue Strategy Redefined, Audits, Optimization, and Company Alignment”, I was joined by the brilliant Hannah Adjikawo, CEO and founder of Revenue Funnel.

We discuss how B2B scale-ups can supercharge their Go-to-Market strategies and unlock untapped pipeline opportunities. Hannah shares her expertise in identifying gaps across the entire revenue funnel from marketing to customer success and offers actionable insights for achieving measurable growth. 

So whether you're a startup founder or seasoned executive, this episode is packed with practical tips to drive results fast. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.186)
Welcome, Hannah! Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Hannah Ajikawo (00:07.291)
Thank you, Kerry. I’m excited to be here, so thank you for inviting me on. I’m Hannah Ajikawo, CEO and founder of Revenue Funnel, a go-to-market consulting firm. We specialize in helping B2B scale-ups unlock up to 4x more pipeline in just a few weeks. It’s a big claim, but I’m proud to say it’s one we’ve consistently delivered on.

My background is in sales—I’ve been immersed in it throughout my career. Early on, I realized that not all sales environments are created equally. I became curious about why some teams underperformed while others excelled. This curiosity expanded to exploring what was happening with product, pricing, strategy, and marketing. It led me to focus more on holistic business strategies, though my heart is still firmly rooted in sales.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:08.15)
That’s fantastic! We’re cut from the same cloth—both passionate about helping companies grow revenue and identifying gaps in their processes. It’s such an important mission. Can you tell us a bit more about your consultancy and what challenges your clients typically face when they call you?

Hannah Ajikawo (01:49.669)
Absolutely. At Revenue Funnel, we focus on delivering outcomes, not just advice. We’re uniquely positioned to address challenges across the entire revenue funnel—from marketing and strategy to sales and customer success.

Typically, when clients reach out, they’re facing surface-level issues like missed revenue targets, ineffective sales processes, or underperforming customer success teams. But underneath those issues, there’s usually a mix of fear and anxiety—leaders worried about hitting targets or keeping their jobs.

What sets us apart is our ability to audit the entire funnel, uncover hidden blockers, and address them quickly. For example, we often hear leaders say their customer success teams aren’t revenue-driven or their sales teams need more training. But what’s really happening might be cultural issues or deeper process gaps.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:38.336)
I love how you integrate customer success into the go-to-market strategy. You’re right—it’s not sustainable to bring in new customers if you’re losing them just as quickly. It truly is a company-wide responsibility.

Hannah Ajikawo (03:41.393)
Exactly. Sales is a whole-company responsibility. The most successful companies recognize that. It’s not just about one team—it’s about aligning everyone behind the same goals.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:22.132)
You’ve built an incredible track record of turning businesses around. Tell us more about your bold claim of 4x pipeline growth. How are you achieving that?

Hannah Ajikawo (04:48.113)
It’s all about finding and fixing the hidden blockers. Leaders often don’t know what they don’t know—it’s like ignoring a backache until it turns into something serious.

Our process starts with a comprehensive audit of the entire funnel, from brand awareness to customer advocacy. We identify what’s missing and create a detailed plan to fix it. This includes everything from change management and training to reshaping teams and processes.

Our approach is fast and outcome-focused. We partner with experts where needed to execute quickly. It’s all about identifying gaps, fixing them, and optimizing for continuous improvement.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:03.107)
That’s so insightful. I also see a lot of businesses struggling to articulate their unique value proposition. Do you encounter that often?

Hannah Ajikawo (08:06.341)
All the time. Many companies rely on product-focused messaging instead of addressing the outcomes their customers care about. It’s essential to connect with what your buyers truly want.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:53.582)
Exactly. That’s such an important gap to address. What are some other common issues you encounter in sales and marketing workflows?

Hannah Ajikawo (10:38.479)
One big issue is not being found—basic SEO mistakes like missing H1 headings can prevent companies from being indexed properly. Another is how sales reps approach calls—many still follow outdated methods, focusing on pitching rather than asking questions and listening. These problems exist in companies of all sizes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:37.4)
You’ve also mentioned change management as a key component of driving transformation. What advice do you have for leaders navigating that process?

Hannah Ajikawo (16:36.307)
Change requires relentless communication—through emails, videos, intranet posts, and direct conversations at all levels. It’s about creating awareness, enabling teams, and reinforcing the changes with ongoing support. Leaders need to over-communicate and involve everyone, especially line managers.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:18.114)
That’s so valuable. Finally, what’s your top recommendation for a company that’s hit a revenue plateau?

Hannah Ajikawo (21:40.283)
Start by figuring out why. Conduct a thorough audit of your go-to-market strategy. You might uncover a few overlooked areas that are holding you back. Sometimes, it takes an external perspective to pinpoint those gaps.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:33.036)
Excellent advice, Hannah. How can people connect with you?

Hannah Ajikawo (25:42.865)
The best way is on LinkedIn—send me a message, and I’d love to connect. You can also check out our website at revenuefinal.co.uk.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (26:33.497)
Thank you so much, Hannah. It’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast today.

Hannah Ajikawo (26:33.497)
Thank you for having me! It’s been great.

I hope you found this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast as valuable as I did. Hannah's advice for uncovering funnel gaps to optimize for growth can be a total game changer. If this was helpful, please be sure to subscribe to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast for more. Connect with me, Kerry Curran, at revenuebasedmarketing.com for previous episodes and to learn how I can help boost your company revenue.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“B2B buyers are human beings with real emotions. Whether we like it or not, people make decisions based on emotion first and justify them later with facts. Your content needs to address their pain points, tap into their aspirations, and clearly show how your solution solves their problems quickly and effectively.” That's a quote from Alexis Trammell, CGO at Stratabeat and a sneak peek at today's episode.

Hi there. I'm Kerry Curran, business growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth for all businesses. 

In this episode, “B2B Content That Converts Building Trust and Differentiation in a Crowded Market”, I'm joined by Alexis Trammell, Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat. Alexis and I discuss how to compete against AI-powered search results and how to craft B2B content that builds trust, drives engagement, and conversions. We also cover the importance of clear differentiation, the impact of mid and bottom funnel content, and how to align your team around messaging that resonates with buyers.

So whether you're navigating the challenges of AI or striving to create content that cuts through the noise, this episode is packed with actionable strategies to help turn your website traffic into revenue growth. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.122):
Welcome, Alexis! Please introduce yourself and tell us all about your background and expertise.

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (00:07.526):
Great, thank you so much, Kerry, for having me on. My name is Alexis Trammell, and I’m the Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat. We’re an SEO, content marketing, and CRO agency that offers services like brand strategy, conversion rate optimization, content development, and much more. I’ve been with Stratabeat for a little over six years now, and I’ve been in the content marketing space for over a decade. My background includes video production and advertising, but now I focus on organic strategies. I help grow Stratabeat while working with some amazing clients in the technology and SaaS sectors, as well as in med-tech, green-tech, and B2B manufacturing.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:02.83):
Excellent. Alexis, you and I have had the opportunity to work together many times during your six years at Stratabeat, so I’m excited to have you here today. I know in your role, you frequently speak with executives like CMOs, CEOs, and CFOs. What challenges do you typically hear from them in your conversations or discovery calls?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (01:29.948):
Sure. What I often see is that CMOs or marketing executives come to us with very transactional requests. They’ll say, “We need a new website,” or “We need more website traffic.” When we ask, “What problem are you trying to solve with this service?” they often struggle to articulate it. In most cases, the underlying need is the same—they need more leads, more deals, and they want their website and organic traffic to drive that growth.

When we begin a discovery process with a client, one of the first things we focus on is their messaging and differentiators. You can hire an SEO agency to optimize your site, but if your site doesn’t clearly communicate your unique value or differentiate you from competitors—especially if you’re charging premium prices—SEO won’t solve your problem. Traffic alone doesn’t equal new deals. That’s why we work to understand a company’s key messaging and differentiation by involving the entire executive team, sales team, and even their customers. Without alignment on what makes a company unique and valuable, it’s impossible to achieve meaningful results.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:51.268):
That’s such an important point—especially about differentiation and positioning. CMOs are constantly under pressure to do more with less, and they face challenges convincing executives to invest in foundational marketing strategies. On top of that, as you mentioned, AI is a common topic now. What are your thoughts on AI as a differentiator in the B2B space?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (04:21.308):
AI is a hot topic, but it’s often misunderstood. Many companies see AI as a differentiator or a magic solution, but it’s really just a tool. For example, in the tech space, companies might push AI as a feature of their products, while marketers use generative AI platforms to create content. However, generative AI is limited—it can help with top-of-funnel content, but it doesn’t understand your specific differentiators, customer pain points, or market nuances. AI-generated content can’t replace human insights or originality, which are crucial for middle and bottom-of-funnel strategies.

A common challenge we see is companies losing organic traffic because they’ve relied too heavily on AI-generated content or haven’t adapted their strategies to account for AI overviews dominating search results. To counter this, we focus on helping clients build out strong middle and bottom-of-funnel content, optimize their CTAs, and ensure their messaging is clear and compelling. These human-led efforts are what truly drive conversions and differentiate brands in competitive markets.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:54.14):
That’s a great perspective. It’s not about having AI, but how you’re using it to add value. Can you share more about how Stratabeat approaches creating content that leverages a company’s true differentiators and drives conversions?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (07:51.884):
Everything starts with messaging—it’s the foundation. We ensure that a company’s key differentiators and positioning are clearly articulated and understood by the entire team, from executives to customer success and sales. Once we align on messaging, we integrate it into all content, from product pages and blogs to CTAs and help center articles.

For instance, if a company is competing in a crowded market and their only stated differentiator is AI, we challenge them to go deeper. AI is just a tool; it’s not a compelling value proposition on its own. We build content strategies that highlight what truly sets the company apart, combining behavioral analytics, CRO, and human insights to ensure the website is optimized for conversions before scaling traffic. This human-centered approach ensures that every piece of content resonates with prospects and drives meaningful engagement.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:04.998):
I love that focus on weaving differentiation throughout all content. It ensures that B2B buyers—who are often in control of the sales process—find the right information during their research phase. Do you have any final recommendations for executives or marketers trying to achieve this level of clarity and alignment?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (22:57.68):
My top recommendation is to start with alignment. Executives, marketing, and sales teams need to align on messaging, differentiation, and goals. Too many companies chase shiny objects or pump out generic AI content without considering how to stand out. Instead, figure out where you can truly win. Narrow your focus, define your differentiators, and ensure your messaging is integrated into every touchpoint.

And remember, don’t just optimize where you are today—optimize where you want to be. Find a marketing agency that can help you build a strategy rooted in your strengths and goals. It’s not about more traffic; it’s about the right traffic that converts into meaningful business outcomes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:07.182):
That’s fantastic advice, Alexis. Thank you so much for your time and insights today. How can people connect with you?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (25:17.754):
I’m very active on LinkedIn—just search for Alexis Trammell. You can also follow Stratabeat on LinkedIn or visit our website at stratabeat.com.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:27.918):
Wonderful! Thank you, Alexis, for joining us and sharing so much valuable insight today.

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (25:36.932):
Thank you so much, Kerry. It’s always a pleasure to chat with you!

I hope you found this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast as valuable as I did. Alexis's insights on differentiation and unique content strategies can really make a difference for all brands. If this was helpful, be sure to subscribe to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast for more. Connect with me, Kerry Curran, at https://www.revenuebasedmarketing.com/ for previous episodes and to learn how I can help boost your wet revenue in 2025.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“B2B buyers are human beings with real emotions. Whether we like it or not, people make decisions based on emotion first and justify them later with facts. Your content needs to address their pain points, tap into their aspirations, and clearly show how your solution solves their problems quickly and effectively.” That's a quote from Alexis Trammell, CGO at Stratabeat and a sneak peek at today's episode.

Hi there. I'm Kerry Curran, business growth consultant, industry analyst, and host of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast where we discuss smart strategies that drive revenue growth for all businesses. 

In this episode, “B2B Content That Converts Building Trust and Differentiation in a Crowded Market”, I'm joined by Alexis Trammell, Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat. Alexis and I discuss how to compete against AI-powered search results and how to craft B2B content that builds trust, drives engagement, and conversions. We also cover the importance of clear differentiation, the impact of mid and bottom funnel content, and how to align your team around messaging that resonates with buyers.

So whether you're navigating the challenges of AI or striving to create content that cuts through the noise, this episode is packed with actionable strategies to help turn your website traffic into revenue growth. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.122):
Welcome, Alexis! Please introduce yourself and tell us all about your background and expertise.

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (00:07.526):
Great, thank you so much, Kerry, for having me on. My name is Alexis Trammell, and I’m the Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat. We’re an SEO, content marketing, and CRO agency that offers services like brand strategy, conversion rate optimization, content development, and much more. I’ve been with Stratabeat for a little over six years now, and I’ve been in the content marketing space for over a decade. My background includes video production and advertising, but now I focus on organic strategies. I help grow Stratabeat while working with some amazing clients in the technology and SaaS sectors, as well as in med-tech, green-tech, and B2B manufacturing.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:02.83):
Excellent. Alexis, you and I have had the opportunity to work together many times during your six years at Stratabeat, so I’m excited to have you here today. I know in your role, you frequently speak with executives like CMOs, CEOs, and CFOs. What challenges do you typically hear from them in your conversations or discovery calls?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (01:29.948):
Sure. What I often see is that CMOs or marketing executives come to us with very transactional requests. They’ll say, “We need a new website,” or “We need more website traffic.” When we ask, “What problem are you trying to solve with this service?” they often struggle to articulate it. In most cases, the underlying need is the same—they need more leads, more deals, and they want their website and organic traffic to drive that growth.

When we begin a discovery process with a client, one of the first things we focus on is their messaging and differentiators. You can hire an SEO agency to optimize your site, but if your site doesn’t clearly communicate your unique value or differentiate you from competitors—especially if you’re charging premium prices—SEO won’t solve your problem. Traffic alone doesn’t equal new deals. That’s why we work to understand a company’s key messaging and differentiation by involving the entire executive team, sales team, and even their customers. Without alignment on what makes a company unique and valuable, it’s impossible to achieve meaningful results.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:51.268):
That’s such an important point—especially about differentiation and positioning. CMOs are constantly under pressure to do more with less, and they face challenges convincing executives to invest in foundational marketing strategies. On top of that, as you mentioned, AI is a common topic now. What are your thoughts on AI as a differentiator in the B2B space?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (04:21.308):
AI is a hot topic, but it’s often misunderstood. Many companies see AI as a differentiator or a magic solution, but it’s really just a tool. For example, in the tech space, companies might push AI as a feature of their products, while marketers use generative AI platforms to create content. However, generative AI is limited—it can help with top-of-funnel content, but it doesn’t understand your specific differentiators, customer pain points, or market nuances. AI-generated content can’t replace human insights or originality, which are crucial for middle and bottom-of-funnel strategies.

A common challenge we see is companies losing organic traffic because they’ve relied too heavily on AI-generated content or haven’t adapted their strategies to account for AI overviews dominating search results. To counter this, we focus on helping clients build out strong middle and bottom-of-funnel content, optimize their CTAs, and ensure their messaging is clear and compelling. These human-led efforts are what truly drive conversions and differentiate brands in competitive markets.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:54.14):
That’s a great perspective. It’s not about having AI, but how you’re using it to add value. Can you share more about how Stratabeat approaches creating content that leverages a company’s true differentiators and drives conversions?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (07:51.884):
Everything starts with messaging—it’s the foundation. We ensure that a company’s key differentiators and positioning are clearly articulated and understood by the entire team, from executives to customer success and sales. Once we align on messaging, we integrate it into all content, from product pages and blogs to CTAs and help center articles.

For instance, if a company is competing in a crowded market and their only stated differentiator is AI, we challenge them to go deeper. AI is just a tool; it’s not a compelling value proposition on its own. We build content strategies that highlight what truly sets the company apart, combining behavioral analytics, CRO, and human insights to ensure the website is optimized for conversions before scaling traffic. This human-centered approach ensures that every piece of content resonates with prospects and drives meaningful engagement.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:04.998):
I love that focus on weaving differentiation throughout all content. It ensures that B2B buyers—who are often in control of the sales process—find the right information during their research phase. Do you have any final recommendations for executives or marketers trying to achieve this level of clarity and alignment?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (22:57.68):
My top recommendation is to start with alignment. Executives, marketing, and sales teams need to align on messaging, differentiation, and goals. Too many companies chase shiny objects or pump out generic AI content without considering how to stand out. Instead, figure out where you can truly win. Narrow your focus, define your differentiators, and ensure your messaging is integrated into every touchpoint.

And remember, don’t just optimize where you are today—optimize where you want to be. Find a marketing agency that can help you build a strategy rooted in your strengths and goals. It’s not about more traffic; it’s about the right traffic that converts into meaningful business outcomes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:07.182):
That’s fantastic advice, Alexis. Thank you so much for your time and insights today. How can people connect with you?

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (25:17.754):
I’m very active on LinkedIn—just search for Alexis Trammell. You can also follow Stratabeat on LinkedIn or visit our website at stratabeat.com.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:27.918):
Wonderful! Thank you, Alexis, for joining us and sharing so much valuable insight today.

Alexis Trammell, Stratabeat (25:36.932):
Thank you so much, Kerry. It’s always a pleasure to chat with you!

I hope you found this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast as valuable as I did. Alexis's insights on differentiation and unique content strategies can really make a difference for all brands. If this was helpful, be sure to subscribe to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast for more. Connect with me, Kerry Curran, at https://www.revenuebasedmarketing.com/ for previous episodes and to learn how I can help boost your wet revenue in 2025.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled, ""From Clicks to Conversions: Scaling Revenue with Strategic SEO and CRO"" we delve into the dynamic duo of revenue growth: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO). Together, these strategies are the backbone of turning website traffic into meaningful business outcomes. Our guest, Cathleen Voss, a seasoned expert in SEO and CRO, shares invaluable insights into how brands can enhance their search visibility while optimizing on-site user experiences to maximize conversions. We discuss why SEO is no longer just about keywords and rankings—it’s about understanding customer intent and aligning content with audience needs. At the same time, CRO ensures that once visitors land on your site, their journey is seamless, intuitive, and designed to convert. Key takeaways include: The latest SEO trends and how they influence organic traffic growth. Why CRO is crucial for retaining and converting visitors in today’s competitive digital landscape. Practical tips to audit your website’s conversion funnel for quick wins. Strategies to build trust with customers through authentic content, reviews, and streamlined purchase processes. Whether you're scaling a B2B SaaS company, leading a direct-to-consumer e-commerce brand, or anything in between, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you prioritize your efforts, refine your strategies, and scale revenue through smarter digital marketing. Tune in and transform clicks into conversions!🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

In modern B2B marketing, we're seeing the evolution of adding SMS as a step in workflows. With engagement rates as high as 95 to 98% and a 90-second average response time, SMS ensures messages get the attention they deserve. This makes it a powerful tool for fostering relationships, driving engagement, and shortening sales cycles in the complex B2B buying process."In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled SMS for B2B Success: Modern Marketing Strategies for Revenue Growth, host Kerry Curran sits down with Amanda McGuckin Hager, CMO of TrueDialogue and a seasoned B2B demand generation expert, to explore the game-changing role of SMS in modern B2B marketing strategies. Amanda shares her insights from over 20 years in the field, diving into how SMS is transforming buyer engagement, shortening sales cycles, and driving revenue growth.

The discussion highlights how SMS outperforms traditional email campaigns with open rates as high as 98% and response times averaging 90 seconds. Amanda explains how B2B companies can integrate SMS into marketing workflows, use it for real-time customer engagement, and even leverage it in sales relationships to build trust and strengthen connections. From personalized messages to event reminders and webinar follow-ups, SMS is becoming a critical tool for marketers and sales teams alike.

Amanda also addresses key considerations for adopting SMS, including compliance with opt-in rules, new regulations for text message registration, and the importance of integrating SMS with CRM and marketing automation platforms. She provides actionable tips for brands looking to build their SMS strategies, ensuring that messaging adds value and enhances the customer experience.

Whether you're a B2B marketer or sales leader, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice on using SMS to modernize your marketing strategies, improve buyer engagement, and drive measurable growth. Don't miss this deep dive into the future of B2B communication!

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🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"If done right, AI will actually make us more human. It handles the busy work and surfaces real-time insights—so GTM teams can focus on what really drives revenue: building relationships, solving real problems, and creating long-term customer value." That’s a quote from Roderick Jefferson and a sneak peek at today’s episode.

Hi there, I’m Kerry Curran—Revenue Growth Consultant, Industry Analyst, and host of Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast. In every episode, I sit down with top experts to bring you actionable strategies that deliver real results. So if you're serious about business growth, find us in your favorite podcast directory, hit subscribe, and start outpacing your competition today.

In this episode, titled AI + EQ + GTM: The New Growth Equation for B2B Leaders, I sit down with keynote speaker, author, and enablement powerhouse Roderick Jefferson to unpack the modern formula for revenue growth: AI + EQ + GTM.

We explore why traditional sales enablement isn’t enough in today’s landscape—and how real go-to-market success requires alignment across marketing, sales, and customer success, powered by emotional intelligence and smart technology integration.

Whether you're a CRO, CMO, or GTM leader looking to scale smarter, this episode is packed with real-world insights and actionable strategies to align your teams and drive sustainable growth.

Stick around until the end, where Roderick shares expert tips for building your own AI-powered revenue engine.

If you’re serious about long-term growth, it’s time to get serious about AI, EQ, and GTM. Let’s go.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01)
Welcome, Roderick. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Roderick Jefferson (00:06)
Hey, Kerry. First of all, thanks so much for having me on. I’m really excited—I’ve been looking forward to this one all day. So thanks again. I’m Roderick Jefferson, CEO of Roderick Jefferson & Associates. We’re a fractional enablement company, and we focus on helping small to mid-sized businesses—typically in the $10M to $100M range—that need help with onboarding, ongoing education, and coaching.

I’m also a keynote speaker and an author. I actually started my career in sales at AT&T years ago. I was a BDR, did well, got promoted to AE, made President’s Club a couple of times. Then I was offered a sales leadership role—and I turned it down. I know they thought I was crazy, but there were two reasons: first, I realized I loved the process of selling more than just closing big deals. And second, oddly enough, I wasn’t coin-operated. I did it because I loved it—it gave me a chance to interact with people and have conversations like this one.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:16)
I love that—and I love your background. As Roderick mentioned, he does a lot of keynote speaking, and that’s actually where I met him. He was a keynote speaker at B2BMX West in Scottsdale last month. I also have one of your books here that I’ve been diving into. I can’t believe how fast this year is flying—it’s already the first day of spring!

Roderick Jefferson (01:33)
Thank you so much. Wow, that was just last month? It feels like last week. Where is the time going?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:45)
I appreciate your experience for so many reasons. One is that—like we talked about before the show—my dad was in sales at AT&T for over 20 years. It paid for my entire education. So we were comparing notes on that era of innovation and what we learned back then.

Roderick Jefferson (02:02)
Thank you, AT&T!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:13)
So much of what you talked about on stage and wrote about in your book is near and dear to my heart. My background is in building integrated marketing-to-sales infrastructure and strengthening it to drive revenue growth. I’m excited to hear more about what you’re seeing and hearing. You talk to so many brands and marketers—what’s hot right now? What’s the buzz? What do we need to know?

Roderick Jefferson (02:44)
A couple of things. The obvious one is AI—but I’ll add something: it’s not just AI, it’s AI plus EQ plus IQ. Without that combination, you won’t be successful.

The other big theme is the same old problem we’ve always had: Why is there such a disconnect between sales and marketing? As an enablement guy, it pains me. I spent 30 years in corporate trying to figure that out. I think we’re getting closer to alignment—thank you, AI, for finally stepping in and being smarter than all of us! But we’ve still got a long way to go.

Part of the issue is we’re still making decisions in silos. That’s why I’ve become a champion of moving away from just "sales enablement."

Yes, I know I wrote the book on sales enablement—but I don’t think that’s the focus anymore. In hindsight, “sales enablement” is too myopic. It's really about go-to-market. How do we bring HR, marketing, product marketing, engineering, sales, and enablement all to the same table to talk about the entire buyer’s journey?

Instead of focusing on our internal sales process and trying to shoehorn prospects into it, we should be asking: How do they buy? Who buys? Are there buying committees? How many people are involved? And yes, ICP matters—but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. It goes much deeper.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:44)
Yes, absolutely. And going back to why you loved your early sales roles—it was about helping people. That’s how I’ve always approached marketing too: what are their business challenges, and what can I offer to solve them? In your keynote, you said, “I want sales to stop selling and start helping.” But that’s not possible without partnering with marketing to learn and message around the outcomes we drive and the pain points we solve.

Roderick Jefferson (05:22)
Exactly. Let’s unpack that. First, about helping vs. selling—that’s why we have spam filters now. Nobody wants to be sold to. That’s also why people avoid car lots—because you know what’s coming: they’ll talk at you, try to upsell you, and push you into something you don’t need or want. Then you have buyer’s remorse.

Now apply that to corporate and entrepreneurship. If you’re doing all the talking in sales, something’s wrong. Too many people ask questions just to move the deal forward instead of being genuinely inquisitive.

Let’s take it further. If marketing is working in a silo—building messaging and positioning—and they don’t bring in sales, then guess what? Sales won’t use it. Newsflash, right? And second, it’s only going to reflect marketing’s perspective. But if you bring both teams together and say, “Hey, what are the top three to five things you’re hearing from prospects over and over?”—then you can work collaboratively and cohesively to solve those.

The third piece is: let’s stop trying to manufacture pain. Not every prospect is in pain. Sometimes the goal is to increase efficiency or productivity. If there is pain, you get to play doctor for a moment. And by that, I mean: do they need an Advil, a Vicodin, a Percocet, or an extraction? Do you need to stop the bleeding right now? You only figure that out by getting sales, marketing, product, and even HR at the same table.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:34)
Yes, absolutely. I love the analogy of different levels of pain solutions because you’re right—sometimes it’s not pain, it’s about helping the customer be more efficient, reduce costs, or drive revenue. I’ve used the doctor analogy before too: you assess the situation and then customize the solution based on where it “hurts” the most. One of the ongoing challenges, though, is that sales and marketing still aren’t fully aligned. Why do you think that’s been such a persistent issue, and where do you see it heading?

Roderick Jefferson (08:14)
Because sales speaks French and marketing speaks German. They’re close enough that they can kind of understand each other—like ordering a beer or finding a bathroom—but not enough for a meaningful conversation.

The core issue is that they’re not talking—they’re presenting to each other. They're pitching ideas instead of having a dialogue. Marketing says, “Here’s what the pitch should look like,” and sales replies, “When’s the last time you actually talked to a customer?”

They also get stuck in “I think” and “I feel,” and I always tell both groups—those are the two things you cannot say in a joint meeting. No one cares what you think or feel. Instead, say: “Here’s what I’ve seen work,” or “Here’s what I’ve heard from prospects and customers.” That way, the conversation is rooted in data and real-world insight, not opinion or emotion.

You might say, “Hey, when we get to slide six in the deck, things get fuzzy and deals stall.” That’s something marketing can fix. Or you go to product and say, “I’ve talked to 10 prospects, and eight of them asked for this feature. Can we move it up in the roadmap?”

Or go back to sales and say, “Only 28% of the team is hitting quota because they’re struggling with discovery and objection handling.” So enablement and marketing can partner to create role plays, messaging guides, or accreditations. It sounds utopian, but I’ve actually done this six times over 30 years—it is possible.

It’s not because I’m the smartest guy in the room—it’s because when sales and marketing align around shared definitions and shared goals, real change happens. Go back to MQLs and SQLs. One team says, “We gave you all these leads,” and the other says, “Yeah, but they all sucked.” Then you realize: you haven’t even agreed on what a lead is.

As a fractional enablement leader, that’s the first question I ask: “Can you both define what an MQL and SQL mean to you?” Nine times out of ten, they realize they aren’t aligned at all. That’s where real progress starts.

Once you fix communication, the next phase is collaboration. And what comes out of collaboration is the big one: accountability. That’s the word nobody likes—but it’s what gets results. You’re holding each other to timelines, deliverables, and follow-through.

The final phase is orchestration. That’s what enablement really does—we connect communication, collaboration, and accountability across the entire go-to-market team so everyone has a voice and a vote.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:16)
You’re so smart, and you bring up so many great points—especially around MQLs, SQLs, and the lack of collaboration. There’s no unified North Star. Marketing may be focused on MQLs, but those criteria don’t always match what moves an MQL to an SQL.

There’s also no feedback loop. I’ve seen teams where sales and marketing didn’t even talk to each other—but they still complained about each other! I was brought in to help, and I said, “You’re adults. It’s time to talk to one another.” And you’d think that would be obvious.

What I love is that we’re starting to see the outdated framework of MQLs as a KPI begin to fade. As you said, it’s about identifying a shared goal that everyone can be accountable to. We need to all be paddling in the same direction.

Roderick Jefferson (14:16)
Exactly. I wouldn't say we’re all rowing yet, but we’ve definitely got our hands in the water, and we’re starting to go in the same direction. You can see that North Star flickering out there.

And I give big kudos to AI for helping with that. In some ways, it reminds me of social media. Would you agree that social media initially made us less social?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:27)
Yes, totally agree. We can see the North Star.

Roderick Jefferson (14:57)
Now I’m going to flip that idea on its head: if done right, I believe AI will actually make us more human—and drive more meaningful conversations. I know that sounds crazy, but I have six ways AI can help us do that.

First, let’s go back to streamlining lead scoring. If we use AI to prioritize leads based on their likelihood to convert, sales can focus efforts on the most promising opportunities. Once we align on those criteria, volume and quality both improve. With confidence comes competence—and vice versa.

Second is automating task management. Whether it’s data entry, appointment scheduling, or follow-up emails, those repetitive tasks eat up sales time. Less than 30% of a rep’s time is spent actually selling. If we offload that admin work, reps can focus on high-value activities—like building relationships, doing discovery, and closing deals.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:59)
Yes! And pre-call planning. Having the time to prepare properly makes a huge difference.

Roderick Jefferson (16:19)
Exactly. Third is real-time analytics. If marketing and ops can provide sales reps with real-time insights—like funnel data, deal velocity, or content performance—we can start making decisions based on data, not assumptions or feelings.

The fourth area is personalized sales coaching. I talk to a lot of leaders, and I’ll make a bold statement: most sales leaders don’t know how to coach. They either use outdated methods or try to “peanut butter” their advice across the team.

But what if we could use AI to analyze calls, emails, and meetings—then provide coaching based on each rep’s strengths and weaknesses? Sales leaders could shift from managing to leading.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:55)
Yes, I love that. It would completely elevate team performance.

Roderick Jefferson (18:11)
Exactly. Fifth is increasing efficiency in the sales process. AI can create proposals, contracts, and other documents, which frees up time for reps to focus on helping—not chasing paperwork. And by streamlining the process, we can qualify faster and avoid wasting time on poor-fit deals.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:58)
Right, and they can focus on the deals that are actually likely to move forward.

Roderick Jefferson (19:09)
Exactly. And sixth—and most overlooked—is customer success. That’s often left out of GTM conversations, but it’s critical. We can use AI-powered chatbots and virtual assistants to handle basic inquiries. That frees up CSMs to focus on more strategic tasks like renewals, cross-sell, and upsell.

Let’s be honest—most CSMs were trained for renewals, not selling. But cross-sell and upsell aren’t really selling—they’re reselling to warm, happy customers. The better trained and equipped CSMs are, the better your customer retention and growth.

Because let’s face it—we’ve all seen it: 90 days before renewal, suddenly a CSM becomes your best friend. Where were they for the last two years? If we get ahead of that and connect all the dots—sales, marketing, CS, and product—guess who wins?

• The prospect.
• The customer.
• The company—because revenue goes up.
• The employee—because bonuses happen, spiffs get paid, and KPIs are hit.

But most importantly, we build customers for life. And that has to start from the very beginning, not just when the CSM steps in at the end.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:47)
Yes, this is so smart. I love that you brought customer success into the conversation. One of the things I love about go-to-market strategy is that it includes lifetime value—upsell and renewal are a critical part of the revenue journey.

In my past roles, I've seen teams say, “Well, that’s just client services—they don’t know how to sell.” But to your point, if we coach them, equip them, and make them comfortable, it can go a long way.

Roderick Jefferson (21:34)
Absolutely. They become the lifeblood of your business. Yes, you need net-new revenue, but if sales builds this big, beautiful house on the front end and then customers just walk out the back door—what’s the point?

And I won’t even get into the stats—you know them—about how much more expensive it is to acquire a new customer versus retaining one. The key is being human and actually helping.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:46)
Exactly. I love that. It leads perfectly into my next question—because one of the core components of your strategy and presentation was the importance of EQ, or emotional intelligence. Can you talk about why that’s so critical?

Roderick Jefferson (22:19)
Yeah. It really comes down to this: AI can provide content—tons of it, endlessly. It can give you all the data and information in the world. But it still requires a human to provide context. For now, at least. I’m not saying it’ll be that way forever, but for now, context is everything.

I love analogies, so I’ll give you one: it’s like making gumbo. You sprinkle in some seasoning here, some spice there. In this case, AI provides the content. Then the human provides the interpretation—context. That’s understanding how to use that generated content to reach the right person or company, at the right time, with the right message, in the right tone.

What you get is a balanced, powerful approach: IQ + EQ + AI. That’s what leads to truly optimal outcomes—if you do it right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:19)
Yes! I love that. And I love every stage of your process, Roderick—it’s so valuable. I know your clients are lucky to work with you.

For people listening and thinking, “Yes, I need this,” how do they get started? What’s the baseline readiness? How do they begin integrating sales and marketing more effectively—and leveraging AI?

Roderick Jefferson (23:34)
Thank you so much for that. It really starts with a conversation. Reach out—LinkedIn, social media, my website. And from there, we talk. We get to the core questions: Where are you today? Where have you been? Where are you trying to go? And most importantly: What does success look like?

And not just, “What does success look like?” but, “Who is success for?”

Then we move into an assessment. I want to talk to every part of the go-to-market team. Because not only do we have French and German—we’ve also got Dutch, Spanish, and every other language. My job is to become the translator—not just of language, but of dialects and context.

“This is what they said, but here’s what they meant. And this is what they meant, but here’s what they actually need.”

Then we dig into what’s really going on. Most clients have a sense of what’s “broken.” I’m not just looking for the broken parts—I’m looking at what you’ve already tried. What worked? What didn’t? Why or why not?

I basically become a persistent four-year-old asking, “Why? But why? But why?” And yes, it gets frustrating—but it’s the only way to build a unified GTM team with a shared North Star.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:32)
Yes, I love that. And just to add—sometimes something didn’t work not because it was a bad strategy, but because it was evaluated with the wrong KPI or misunderstood entirely.

Like a top-of-funnel strategy did work—but the team expected it to generate leads that same month. It takes time. So much of this comes down to digging into the root of the issue, and I love your approach.

Roderick Jefferson (26:10)
Exactly. And it’s also about understanding that every GTM function has different KPIs.

If I’m talking to sales, I’m asking about average deal size, quota attainment, deal velocity, win rate, pipeline generation.

 

If I’m talking to sales engineering, they care about number of demos per deal, wins and losses, and number of POCs.

 

Customer success? They care about adoption, churn, CSAT, NPS, lifetime value.

My job is to set the North Star and speak in their language—not in “enablement-ese.” Sometimes that means speaking in sales terms, sometimes marketing terms. And I always say, “Assume I know nothing about your job. Spell out your acronyms. Define your terms.”

Because over 30 years, I’ve learned: the same acronym can mean 12 different things at 12 different companies.

The goal is to get away from confusion and start finding commonality. When you break down the silos and the masks, you realize we’re all working toward the same thing: new, long-term, happy customers for life.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:55)
Yes—thank you, Roderick. I love this. So, how can people find you?

Roderick Jefferson (28:00)
Funny—I always say if you can’t find me on social media, you’re not trying to find me.You can reach me at roderickjefferson.com, and you can find my book, Sales Enablement 3.0: The Blueprint to Sales Enablement Excellence and the upcoming Sales 3.0 companion workbook there as well.

I’m on LinkedIn as Roderick Jefferson, Instagram and Threads at @roderick_j_associates, YouTube at Roderick Jefferson, and on BlueSky as @voiceofrod.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (28:33)
Excellent. I’ll make sure to include all of that in the show notes—I’m sure this episode will have your phone ringing!

Thank you so much, Roderick. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. This was valuable for me, and I’m sure for the audience as well.

Roderick Jefferson (28:40)

Ring-a-ling—bring it on! Let’s dance. Thank you again. This was an absolute honor, and I’m glad we got the chance to reconnect, Kerry.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (28:59)
For sure. Thank you—you too.

Roderick Jefferson (29:01)
Take care, all.

Thanks for tuning in. If you’re struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth, you’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster.

If you’re serious about growth, search for us in your favorite podcast directory. Hit follow or subscribe, and leave a five-star rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming.

New episodes drop regularly. Don’t let your revenue growth strategy fall behind. We’ll see you soon!

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled, ""Data-Driven Revenue Growth: Leveraging First-Party Data and CRM for Smarter Lifecycle Marketing Engagement"" we’re diving into the powerful intersection of first-party data, CRM strategy, and lifecycle marketing to drive smarter, more impactful engagement. I’m joined by Jake Schmidt, founder of Structured Agency, who shares his expertise on leveraging CRM systems to transform how businesses connect with their customers. We explore why lifecycle marketing is a game-changer for revenue growth—especially in an era where ads are getting more expensive and customer expectations for personalization are at an all-time high. Jake unpacks the importance of optimizing your CRM, using first-party data to build meaningful connections, and segmenting audiences for highly personalized communication. Whether you’re struggling with declining email performance, inefficient marketing spend, or simply trying to figure out how to retain more customers, this episode is packed with actionable tips to help you fix those pain points and grow revenue. We’ll also discuss creative strategies like quiz funnels for collecting valuable first-party data, and how to design automations that deliver the right message to the right customer at the right time. Jake’s practical advice will help you harness your CRM’s full potential to improve customer engagement, maximize ROI, and strengthen your overall marketing performance. If you’re looking for ways to better connect with your audience, optimize your marketing strategy, and drive measurable growth, this episode is for you. 🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where business leaders turn for actionable strategies to fuel growth and drive results. 

In this episode, Smarter Connections, Bigger Returns: The CRM Advantage in Revenue Growth, im joined by CRM expert Benjamin McCabe to dive into the transformative power of customer relationship management (CRM) for driving revenue growth. Together, they explore how businesses can leverage CRM systems to create smarter connections with their customers, enabling more personalized, efficient, and impactful marketing and sales strategies. 

Benjamin shares his insights on breaking down silos between CRM and media strategies, utilizing first-party data for better targeting, and building consumer trust through transparency and personalization. He also offers actionable tips for companies just starting with CRM, including how to craft personalized customer journeys and ensure every interaction drives measurable results. 
Whether you’re looking to maximize your marketing ROI, align your sales and marketing efforts, or unlock the full potential of your CRM, this episode is packed with strategies to help you turn connections into bigger returns.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

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Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where business leaders turn for actionable strategies to fuel growth and drive results. I’m your host, Kerry Curran. With over 20 years of marketing agency experience driving client business growth I now run RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors where we help businesses like yours effectively scale revenue growth. Visit RevenueBasedMarketing.com or connect with me on LinkedIn! Today, you’ll learn how to the full potential of CRM to unite marketing, sales, and customer success teams, driving revenue growth and operational efficiency. Maximizing Revenue Potential: The Power of CRM in Cross-Functional Collaboration with special guest Sam Anderson, CEO and co-founder of Origin 63, an elite HubSpot partner. Sam shares her expertise on overcoming common CRM challenges, from integrating disconnected tools to leveraging data for smarter insights and personalization at scale. Learn how the right CRM setup can enable predictive analytics, streamline workflows, and foster stronger connections with prospects and customers. Whether you’re navigating tight budgets, adapting to industry shifts, or looking to optimize your marketing efforts, this episode offers actionable strategies and real-world examples to help your organization thrive. Don’t miss this deep dive into the essential role of CRM in cross-functional collaboration and revenue amplification!🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

Connect with Lori Thomas, CSPO, Founder and CXO of Digit Cloud Biz  on LinkedIn or go to Digit Cloud Biz

Also be sure to download Lori's free cheat sheet on Account Based Marketing here. 

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where business leaders turn for actionable strategies to fuel growth and drive results. In Today’s episode, Maximizing Marketing Impact: From Funnel Conversion to Revenue Attribution, I am joined by the brilliant Sarah Lane-Hawn, a senior marketing operations consultant and mathematician turned marketing strategist. Sarah shares her journey from creating blog content to leading marketing operations at startups and scale-ups, bringing her unique perspective to the challenges and opportunities in B2B marketing. We discuss actionable strategies to optimize funnel conversion, eliminate inefficiencies, and implement reliable revenue attribution models. Sarah also introduces her innovative “Goldilocks Model” for revenue attribution—a practical, cost-effective solution for startups and scale-ups to measure and maximize marketing’s impact.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where business leaders turn for actionable strategies to fuel growth and drive results. I’m your host, Kerry Curran. With over 20 years of marketing agency experience driving client business growth I now run RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors where we help businesses like yours effectively scale revenue growth. Visit RevenueBasedMarketing.com or connect with me on LinkedIn! Today, we’re exploring how marketing can be a transformative force in fostering cross-functional alignment to achieve strategic business growth in Unlocking Marketing Impact: Amplifying Revenue through Cross-Functional Collaboration. Joining me is Amy Winner, a marketing powerhouse with over 25 years of experience spanning agency leadership, startup innovation, and co-founding Wheels Up Collective, a full-stack boutique marketing agency. Amy’s expertise lies in designing marketing strategies that not only deliver results but also create seamless integration between product, sales, and customer success teams.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

To build a truly effective go-to-market strategy, you can’t be everything to everyone—you have to find your focus. Start with refining your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) by identifying the key personas, their unique pain points, and the challenges they’re trying to solve. Then, align your messaging and tactics to resonate directly with their needs. Choose just two key channels to start—whether it’s LinkedIn ads for B2B or industry events for networking—and focus on mastering those. It’s not about doing it all—it’s about doing it right, strategically and with purpose, to drive real, scalable results. - Heidi Hattendorf

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

One of the biggest mistakes I see in B2B marketing is skipping foundational strategy for quick tactical wins. For example, companies might jump straight into running ads on LinkedIn or Google without first understanding their buyers or building a cohesive brand experience. Without that groundwork, even the best campaigns can fall flat. It’s always better to start with a strong strategy that aligns messaging, audience, and goals before diving into execution. - Terri Hoffman,  founder and CEO of Marketing Refresh

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"People follow people before they follow brands. In today’s crowded market, where competition is fierce and sales cycles are getting longer, the key to standing out is showcasing the unique value of your people. Highlight their expertise, passion, and perspectives through authentic, high-impact content. Thought leadership isn’t just about building awareness; it’s about earning trust and creating meaningful connections that drive action across the entire funnel. When your audience sees the real people behind your brand, they’re more likely to trust your company, explore your offerings, and ultimately choose you over competitors." Pirna Virji, Principal Consultant & Global Program Manager at LinkedIn

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Great marketing isn’t just about data or emotion—it’s about finding the perfect balance. The data provides the roadmap; it shows you where you’re winning and where you’re falling short. But without an emotional connection, your brand becomes just another transaction, easily forgotten. The most successful companies understand this balance—they use data to guide decisions but invest in storytelling and brand building to create something that sticks with their audience. If you’re only chasing short-term wins like ROAS or quick revenue, you’re sacrificing the long-term loyalty and growth that truly make a brand sustainable.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

The CEO’s Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-To-Market System That Scales

“You don't need more leads—you need clarity. Clarity on where your business can grow the most, the fastest, and at the highest margin. That's what a real go-to-market system delivers. It's not about volume anymore—it's about alignment, focus, and making sure every team—marketing, sales, and customer success—is executing toward the same outcome. That's how CEOs scale with confidence.” That's a quote from Sangram Vajre, and a sneak peek at today's episode.

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Curran—revenue growth expert, industry analyst, and relentless advocate for turning marketing into a revenue engine. Each episode, we bring you the strategies, insights, and conversations that help drive your revenue growth. So search for Revenue Boost in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe to stay ahead of the game.

In The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-to-Market System That Scales, I'm joined by bestselling author and GTM expert Sangram Vajre to discuss why go-to-market isn't a marketing tactic—it's a CEO-level growth system. In this episode, you'll learn the three phases every business must navigate to scale, why alignment beats activity in every growth stage, how CEOs can drive clarity, trust, and margin-focused decisions across teams, and why AI is only a threat if you're still riding the demand-gen horse.

If you're a growth-minded CEO or exec, this episode gives you the roadmap and the mindset to scale faster, smarter, and stronger. Be sure to listen through to the end, where Sangram shares three key tips—his ultimate advice for any leader ready to level up their go-to-market strategy. Let's go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.77)
So welcome, Sangram. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.

Sangram Vajre (00:06.992)
Well, at the highest level, I feel like I’ve had the opportunity to be in the B2B space for the last two decades and have had a front-row seat to categories that have shaped how we think about go-to-market. I ran marketing at Pardot. We were acquired by ExactTarget and then Salesforce—that was a $2.7 billion acquisition. It was a huge shift in mindset, going from a $10 million company to a $10 billion one, and I learned a lot.

I became a student of go-to-market, if you will. That was in the marketing automation space. Then I launched a company called Terminus, which has been acquired twice now. Along the way, I’ve written three books. The one we’re going to talk a lot about is MOVE, which became a Wall Street Journal bestseller. That book has created a lot of opportunities and work for us.

I walked into writing this book, Kerry, thinking I knew go-to-market because I had two $100M+ exits. But I walked out of the process a student of go-to-market because I learned so much. Writing it forced me to talk to folks like Brian Halligan, the CEO of HubSpot, and partners at VC firms who have seen 200 exits—not just the three I’ve experienced.

It really expanded my vision. Now I lead a company called Go-To-Market Partners. We’re a research and advisory firm focused on helping companies understand who owns go-to-market and how to run it at a transformational level. Our clients are primarily CEOs and executive teams. That’s our focus.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:46.094)
Excellent. Well, I'm very excited to dive in. I first saw you speak at Inbound last fall, and what really resonated with me was the shift from just an ABM program to a company-wide GTM program—one that includes everything from problem-market fit all the way to customer success, loyalty, and retention. Really making GTM the core of revenue growth.

So I’d love for you to dive in and share that framework and background.

Sangram Vajre (02:23.224)
Yeah. And by the way, for people who’ve never attended Inbound—you should. I’ve spoken there for eight years straight and always try to bring new ideas. Each year, they keep giving me more opportunities—from main stage to workshops. I think you attended the 90-minute workshop, right? Hopefully it wasn’t boring!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:48.61)
Yeah, it was excellent. I love this stuff, so I was taking lots of notes.

Sangram Vajre (02:52.814)
That was fun. The whole idea was: how can you build your entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide? Now, people might think, “There’s no way—you need way more detail.” But it’s not about making it complete; it’s about making it clear.

So everyone can be aligned. For example, in the operating system we’ve developed, we write research about it every Monday in a newsletter called GTM Monday, read by 175,000 people. The eight pillars are based on the most important questions. And Kerry, I don’t know if you’ll agree, but I think I’ve done a disservice for two decades by asking the wrong question.

Like, I used to ask, “Where can we grow?”—which sounds smart but is actually foolish. The better question is, “Where can we grow the most, the fastest, the best, at the highest margin?” That’s the true business perspective. So the operating system is built around these eight essential questions.

If every executive team can align on these—not with certainty, but with clarity—then they can gain a clear understanding of what they’re doing, where they’re going, who their ICP is, what bets they’re making, and which motions to pursue. I’ve done this over a thousand times with executive teams, helping them build their entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide. And it’s like a lightbulb moment for them: “Okay, now I know what bets we’re making and how my team is aligned.” It’s a beautiful thing.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:50.988)
Yeah, because that’s one of the hardest challenges across business strategy and growth: where to invest, where to lean in. So bring us through the questions and framework.

Sangram Vajre (05:01.688)
Yeah. So the first one is “Where can you grow the most?” The second one is really about what we call the Market Investment Map. I’ll give you maybe three or four so people can get an idea. The Market Investment Map is especially useful for companies with more than one product or more than one segment. This is the least used but most valuable framework companies should be using.

You might remember from the Inbound talk—I used HubSpot as an example since I was speaking at Inbound. It’s interesting because at my last company, Terminus, we acquired five companies in eight years. So we had to learn this process. The Market Investment Map is about matching your best segments to the best products to create the highest-margin offering.

If your entire business focuses only on pipeline and revenue—which sounds right—you’re actually focused on the wrong things. You may have seen people post on LinkedIn saying, “I generated $10 million in pipeline,” and then a month later, they’re laid off. Why? Because that pipeline didn’t matter. It might have been general pipeline, but if you looked at pipeline within your ICP—the customers your company really needs to close, retain, and expand—it might have only been half a million. That’s not enough to sustain growth or justify your role.

So, understanding the business is critical. It’s not just about understanding marketing skills like demand gen, content, or design. Those are table stakes. You need to understand the business of marketing—how the financials work, how to drive revenue, and how to say, “Yeah, we generated $10 million in pipeline, but only half a million was within ICP, so it won’t convert or drive the margin we need.” That level of EQ and IQ is what leaders need today.

Our go-to-market operating system goes deep into areas like this.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:31.022)
And I love the alignment with the ICP. I’m sure you’ll get deeper into that. I also know you talk about getting rid of MQLs because the real focus should be on getting closer to the ICP—on who’s actually going to drive revenue.

Sangram Vajre (07:45.892)
Yeah. John Miller, a good friend who co-founded Marketo, has been writing about this too. I was the CMO of Pardot. Then we both built ABM companies—I built Terminus; he built Engagio, which is now part of Demandbase. We’ve been evangelizing the idea of efficient marketing machines for the last two decades.

We’re coming full circle now. That approach made sense in the “growth at all costs” era. But in this “efficient growth” era, everything can be measured. The dark funnel is real. AI can now accelerate your team’s output and throughput. So we have to go back to first principles—what do your customers really want?

I was in a discussion yesterday with executives and middle managers, and the topic of AI came up. Some were worried it would take their jobs. And I said, “Yes, it absolutely will—and it should.” I gave the example I wrote about recently: imagine you were the best horseman, with saddles, barns, and a generational business built around horses. Then Henry Ford comes along with four wheels. You just lost your job—not because you were bad, but because you got infatuated with the horse, not with your customer’s need to get from point A to point B.

Horses did that—it was better than walking. But then came cars, trains, airplanes. Business evolves. If you focus on your customers’ needs—better, faster, cheaper—you’ll always be excited about innovation rather than afraid of it. So yes, AI will replace anyone who stays on their horse. If you’re riding the demand gen horse or relying only on content creation, a lot is going to change. Get off the horse, refocus on customer needs, and figure out how to move your business forward.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:21.708)
Yeah. So talk a bit about honing in on the ICP. I know in one of the sessions you asked, “Who’s your target audience?” And of course, there was one guy in the front row who said, “Everyone,” and we all laughed. But I still hear that all the time. Talk about how important it is, to your point, to know your customer and get obsessed with what they need.

Sangram Vajre (10:45.56)
Yeah. So the first pillar of the go-to-market operating system is called TRM, or Total Relevant Market. We introduced that in the book MOVE for the first time. It’s a departure from TAM—Total Addressable Market—which is what that guy in the front row was referring to during that session. It was epic, and I think he was a sales leader, so it was even funnier in a room full of marketers.

But it’s true—and real. He was being honest, and I appreciated that. The reality is, we’ve all been conditioned to focus on more and more—bigger and bigger markets. That makes sense if you have unlimited funds and can raise money. It makes sense if the market is huge and you're just trying to get in and have more people doing outbound.

As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago, we did a session where someone said something profound that I’ll never forget. He said, “The whole SDR function is a feature bug in the VC model.” That was fascinating—because the whole SDR model was built to get as many leads as possible, assign 22-year-olds to make cold calls, and push them to AEs.

We built this because it worked on a spreadsheet. If we generate 1,000 leads, we need 50 callers to convert them. It’s math. But nobody really tried to improve it because we had the money. Now we’re in a different world. We have clients doing $10–15 million in revenue with five-person teams automating so much.

People don’t read as many automated emails. My phone filters out robocalls, so I never pick up unless it’s someone I know. Non-personalized emails go into a folder I never open. Yet people keep sending thousands of them, thinking it works.

For example, I send our GTM Monday newsletter via Substack. It’s free for readers, and it’s free for me to send—even to 175,000 people. Meanwhile, marketers spend thousands every time they email their list using legacy tools. Why? Because these people haven’t opted in to be part of the journey the way Substack subscribers have.

The market has changed. Buying big marketing automation tools for $100,000 is going to change drastically. Fractional leaders and agencies will thrive because what CEOs really need is people like you—and frameworks like a go-to-market operating system—to guide them. You and I have the gray hair and battle scars to prove it. What matters now is using a modern framework, implementing it, and measuring outcomes differently.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:08.11)
Yeah, you bring up such a valid point. In so many of my conversations, I see the same thing. It’s been a sales-led growth strategy for years. Investments went to sales—more BDRs, more cold emails, more tech stack partners.

Even as I was starting my consultancy, I’d talk to partners or prospects who’d say, “Well, we just hired more salespeople. We want to see how that goes.” But to your point, without the foundational framework—without targeting the right audience—you’re just spinning your wheels on volume.

Sangram Vajre (15:06.318)
Exactly. One area we emphasize in our go-to-market operating system is differentiation. Everyone’s doing the same thing. Let me give you an example. Last week, I looked at a startup’s email tool that reads your emails and drafts responses automatically. Super interesting. I use Superhuman for email.

Two days later, Superhuman sent an email saying they’d launched the exact same feature. So this startup spent time and money building a feature, and Superhuman—already with a huge user base—replicated and launched it instantly. That startup is out of business.

With AI, product development is lightning fast. So product is no longer your differentiator. Your differentiation now is how you tell your story, how quickly you grab attention, how well you build and maintain a community. That becomes your moat. Those first principles matter more than ever. Product is just table stakes now.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:33.878)
Right. And connecting that to your marketing strategy, your communication, your messaging—it also sets up your sales team to close faster. By the time a prospect talks to a rep, your marketing has already educated them on your differentiation. So talk more about the stages and what companies need to keep in mind when applying your go-to-market framework.

Sangram Vajre (17:07.482)
One of the things we mention in the book—and go really deep into in our operating system—is this 3P format: Problem-Market Fit, Product-Market Fit, and Platform-Market Fit. We believe these are the three core stages of a business. I experienced them firsthand at Pardot, Salesforce, and Terminus through multiple acquisitions.

If you remember, I always talk about the “squiggly line,” because no company grows up and to the right in a straight line. If you look at daily, weekly, or monthly insights, there are dips—just like a stock market chart. So the squiggly line shows you can go from Problem to Product, but you’ll experience a dip. That’s normal and natural. Same thing when you go from Product to Platform—you hit a dip. Those dips are what we call the “valleys of death.”

Some companies overcome those valleys and cross the chasm, and others don’t. Why? Because at those points, they discover they can market and sell, but they can’t deliver. Or maybe they can deliver, but they can’t renew. Or maybe they can renew but not expand. Each gap becomes a value to fix in the system.

And it’s hard. I’ve gone from $5 million to $10 million to $15 million, all the way to $100 million in revenue—and every 5 to 10 million increment brings a new set of challenges. You think you’ve got it figured out, and then you don’t—because everything else has to change with scale.

I’ll never forget one company I was on the board of—unfortunately, it didn’t make it. The CEO was upset because they were doing $20 million in revenue but didn’t get the valuation they wanted. Meanwhile, a competitor doing only $5 million in revenue in the same space got a $500 million valuation. Why? Because the $20M company was doing tons of customization—still stuck in Problem-Market Fit. The $5M company had reached Product-Market Fit and was far more efficient. Their operational costs were lower, and their NRR was over 120%.

If you’ve read some of my research, you know I’m all in on NRR—Net Revenue Retention—as the #1 metric. If you get NRR above 120%, you’ll double your revenue in 3.8 years without adding a single new customer. That’s what executives should focus on.

That’s why we say the CEO owns go-to-market. All our research shows that if the CEO doesn’t own it, you’ll have a really hard time scaling.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:23.992)
That makes so much sense, because everything you’re talking about—while it includes marketing functions—is really business strategy. It needs to be driven top-down. It has to be the North Star the whole company is paddling toward.

I’ve been in organizations where that’s not the case. And as you said, leadership has to have the knowledge and strategic awareness to navigate those pivots—those valleys of death. So talk about how hard it is to bring new frameworks into an organization and the change management that comes with that. As you evangelize the idea that the CEO owns GTM, what’s resonating most with them?

Sangram Vajre (21:26.456)
Great question. First of all, CEOs who get it—they love it. The people who struggle most are actually CMOs and CROs because they feel like they should be the ones owning go-to-market. And while their input is critical, they can’t own it entirely.

In all our advisory work, Kerry, we mandate two things:

1. The CEO must be in the room. We won’t do an engagement without that.
   
    
2. The executive team must be involved. We don’t do one-on-one coaching—because transformation happens in teams.

People often get it wrong. They think, “We need better ICP targeting, so that’s marketing’s job.” Or, “We need pipeline acceleration—let sales figure that out.” Or, “We have a retention issue—fire the CS team.” No. The problem isn’t a department issue—it’s a process and team issue.

The CEO is the most incentivized person to bring clarity, alignment, and trust—the three pillars of our GTM operating system. They’re the ones sitting in all the one-on-one meetings, burning out from the lack of alignment. The challenge is most CEOs don’t know what it means to own GTM. It feels overwhelming.

So we help them reframe that. Owning doesn’t mean running GTM. It means orchestrating clarity, alignment, and trust. Every meeting they lead should advance one of those. That’s the job. When the ICP is agreed upon, marketing should be excited to generate leads for it. Sales should be eager to follow up. CS should be relieved they’re not getting misaligned customers. That’s leadership. And there’s no one more suited—or incentivized—to lead that than the CEO.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:08.11)
Absolutely. And the CFO plays a key role too—holding the purse strings, understanding where the investments should go.

Sangram Vajre (24:20.622)
Yes. In fact, in the book and in our research, we emphasize the importance of RevOps—especially once a company reaches Product-Market Fit and moves toward Platform-Market Fit.

If you’re operating across multiple products, segments, geographies, or using multiple GTM motions, the RevOps leader—who often reports to the CFO or CEO—becomes critical. I’d say they’re the second most important person in the company from a strategy standpoint.

Why? Because they’re the only ones who can look at the whole picture and say, “We don’t need to spend more on marketing; we need to fix the sales process.” A marketing leader won’t say that. A sales leader won’t say that. You need someone who can objectively assess where the real bottleneck is.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:17.836)
Yeah, that definitely makes so much sense. Are there other areas—maybe below the executive team—that help educate the company from a change management perspective to gain buy-in? Or is it really a company-wide change?

Sangram Vajre (25:33.742)
Yeah, you mentioned ABM earlier. Having written a few books on ABM and building Terminus, we’ve seen thousands of companies go through transformation. We now have over 70,000 students who’ve gone through our courses. I love getting feedback.

What’s interesting is that ABM has been great for aligning sales and marketing—but it hasn’t transformed the company. Go-to-market is not a marketing or sales strategy. It’s a business strategy. It has to bring in CS, product, finance—everyone.

Where companies often fail is by looking at go-to-market too narrowly—like it’s just a product launch or a sales campaign. That’s way too myopic. Those companies burn a lot of cash.

At the layer below the executive team, it gets harder because GTM is fundamentally a leadership-driven initiative. An SDR, AE, or director of marketing typically doesn’t have the incentive—or business context—to drive GTM change. But they should get familiar with it.

That’s why we created the GTM Operating System certification. Hundreds of professionals have gone through it—including you! And now people are bringing those frameworks into leadership meetings.

They’ll say, “Hey, let’s pull up the 15 GTM problems and see where we’re stuck.” Or, “Let’s revisit the 3 Ps—where are we today?” Or use one of the assessments. It’s pretty cool to see it in action.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:35.758)
Yeah, and it’s extremely valuable. I love that it’s a tool that helps drive company-wide buy-in and educates the people responsible for the actions. So you’ve shared so many great frameworks and recommendations. For those listening, what’s the first step to get started? What would you recommend to someone who’s thinking, “Okay, I love all of this—I need to start shifting my organization”?

Sangram Vajre (28:09.082)
First, you have to really understand the definition of go-to-market. It’s a transformational process—not a one-and-done. It’s not something you define at an offsite and then forget. It’s not owned by pirates. It’s iterative. It happens every day.

Second, the CEO has to be fully bought in. If they don’t own it, GTM will run them. If you're a CEO and you feel overwhelmed, that’s usually why—you’re running go-to-market, not owning it.

Third, business transformation happens in teams. If you try to build a GTM strategy in a silo—as a marketer, for example—it will fail. The best strategies never see the light of day because the team isn’t behind them. In GTM, alignment matters more than being right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (29:27.982)
Excellent. I love this so much. Thank you! How can people find you and learn more about the GTM Partners certification and your book?

Sangram Vajre (29:37.476)
You can go to gtmpartners.com to get the certification. Thousands of people are going through it, and we’re constantly adding new content. We’re about to launch Go-To-Market University to add even more courses.

We also created the MOVE Book Companion, because we’re actually selling more books now than when it first came out three years ago—which is crazy!

Then there’s GTM Monday, our research newsletter that 175,000 people read every week. Our goal is to keep building new frameworks and sharing what’s possible. Things are changing so fast—AI, GTM tech, everything. But first principles still apply. That’s why frameworks matter more than ever.

You can’t just ask ChatGPT to “give me a go-to-market strategy” and expect it to work. It might give you something beautifully written, but it won’t help you make money. You need frameworks, team alignment, and process discipline.

And I post about this every day on LinkedIn—so follow me there too!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:54.988)
Excellent. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, and I highly recommend the book and the certification to everyone. We’ll include all the links in the show notes.

Thank you, Sangram, for joining us today!

Sangram Vajre (31:09.284)
Kerry, you're a fantastic host. Thank you for having me.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (31:11.854)
Thank you very much.

Thanks for tuning in to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked some new ideas and challenged the way you think about how your organization approaches go-to-market and revenue growth strategy. If you're serious about turning marketing into a true revenue driver, this is just the beginning. We've got more insightful conversations, expert guests, and actionable strategies coming your way—so search for us in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe.

And hey, if this episode brought you value, please share it with a colleague or leave a quick review. It helps more revenue-minded leaders like you find our show. Until next time, I'm Kerry Curran—helping you connect marketing to growth, one episode at a time. See you soon.

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Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

Podcast Guest:  Greg Rollett 

Host: Kerry Curran

Title: Think Like a Brand: Strategies for Publisher Growth and Engagement

"Publishers need to think like scrappy consumer brands. Focus on creating content that excites and engages your audience—whether through thematic newsletters, short-form videos, or user-generated content. The key is to work smarter, not harder." That’s a quote from Greg Rollett, Head of Growth at The Gromit.

Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast—the go-to podcast for business leaders looking to drive revenue and business growth. I’m your host, Kerry Curran. With over 20 years of marketing agency experience driving business success, I now run RBMA (Revenue-Based Marketing Advisors), where we help businesses like yours scale revenue effectively. Visit RevenueBasedMarketing.com or connect with me on LinkedIn today.

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled Think Like a Brand: Strategies for Publisher Growth and Engagement, I sat down with Greg Rollett, Head of Growth at The Gromit, to unpack transformative strategies for publishers and marketers alike.

With recent changes to Google’s algorithm, publishers and commerce content websites must work harder than ever to drive traffic and audience engagement. To succeed, they need to pivot their strategies—thinking more like the brands they partner with and less like traditional publishers. Greg and I explored the successful, innovative strategies he has spearheaded at The Gromit.

From turning email lists into powerful media assets to adopting a brand-first, growth-focused mindset, this conversation is packed with actionable insights. Whether you're navigating the challenges of organic traffic, exploring commerce content opportunities, or strengthening authentic audience connections, this episode delivers a clear roadmap to success.

Don’t miss these proven strategies for growth and engagement in today’s fast-changing digital landscape. Let’s go!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.208)

So welcome, Greg. Please introduce yourself and talk a bit about your background and expertise.

Greg Rollett (00:06.542)

Thank you so much, Kerry. This is really exciting. I know we got to spend a little bit of time together in New York. We spent some time together on some digital round tables, but were really excited to actually spend some time together and share some cool stuff. And so yeah, the Cliff Notes version, we were just talking about this, you know, pre-interview is I have a kind of a wild life. I spent 10 years on the road as a rapper in a rock band, like Linkin Park 311. So I'm going to talk really fast. If you're watching the video version, I use my hands a lot. It comes from, comes from that background.

I got out of that and got into creating media for entrepreneurs and small business owners because I love the media side. And I knew that the best way to tell stories and to get your point across and to sell products was through the media. So we, you know, we started creating videos for dentists and lawyers and small business owners and e-commerce brands. And we started doing a ton of newsletters, like print newsletters that would go in a mailbox and you put a stamp on it. And I don't look that old, but I've been sending mail for 20 years. And you know, and then obviously gotten to digital and

It's been a ton of fun and in the last five years or so I've gotten into e-commerce and just learning everything I can about what e-commerce is doing and today I get to head up the head of growth over at Grommet where we really help thousands of these small independent makers who they spent their life's work building this widget, right? Like if you're watching the video version, like this guy spent years figuring out this plastic mold for something just called cord break. 

You just put your phone cords in it at night so they don't fall off onto the floor every night and then it's right before bedtime and you're grabbing the cords on the floor like silly little things like that that make your life a little bit better. have thousands of these makers and we help them really get discovered by millions of shoppers, both on our own media property, which I know we're going to talk a little bit about, as well as millions of shoppers through our publisher and affiliate programs as well.

And so yeah, it's been a ton of fun. I've gotten to host, you know, TV shows, Emmy awards in the corner that hide out. Like I've gotten to do really, really cool stuff, but I love helping business owners to get discovered and use media to grow their business. And hopefully we get to talk about some of that fun stuff today.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:04.694)

Awesome. Yeah, no, excellent. So great to have you here and love your background and just how many different perspectives you're bringing to the role and to the grommet. So great. So you're talking about the grommet is to some people, it's an e-commerce site, but at the end of the day, you're really a publisher and discovery platform. So talk about the grommet in that perspective of how you identify grommets and what you're doing to build awareness.

Greg Rollett (02:35.5)

Yeah, I love that question. so it depends on who you are and how you're going to view the grommet. So to a shopper, yeah, we just looked like this big marketplace of thousands of really cool, unique products that you can't find anywhere else. Maybe you've never heard of it before, but you're so excited to get it. It's one of the best gift giving websites on the planet. And so you're looking for that cool gift for the aunt that you can never buy anything for, or your husband who you're like, nothing ever makes him happy. You'll find something cool at the grommet. But from a bigger business perspective, we really are a marketplace where we have … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:59.095)

you

Greg Rollett (03:05.11)

… all of these brands who want to get discovered, all these shoppers that want to discover these great products. And then we also have our own media property with millions of shoppers that we are, you know, we have a newsletter too, we have social media, we have live shopping, we have all of this own media that we have. And then kind of the layer on top of that is we have a network of publishers who want access to these products because, you know, maybe they're running Amazon affiliate ads or, you know, they're, just doing paid promotions or brand placements.

And they want access to these products that maybe they couldn't get and with a much better payout than Amazon affiliates. So it's kind of like this four sided monster, if you will, where we have, you know, brands, have shoppers, we have our own media, and then we have publishers and they all work together because the brands don't want to be a part of grommet if there's no shoppers. The shoppers don't want to shop if they're not getting new products. Publishers need really cool new stuff from a site that they trust. And so it's just this really cool ecosystem that we're trying to build here. And it's a lot of fun because Shoppers love it, brands love it, and publishers love it. And so, yeah, it's this really cool ecosystem.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:08.972)

No, and it's great. I'm saying I'm a loyal shopper and have been for a while. And it's great to see the kind of resurgence that you brought to the brand. So one of the things we've been talking about is how a lot of publishers have always depended on organic SEO, Google traffic. And that's become more of a challenge. And so today, publishers really need to start thinking like brands like the grommet has already. So let's talk a bit about kind of the more traditional publishers, whether it's a Hearst or Conde Nast type of website. What are your recommendations for brands like that, publisher brands to think more like consumer brands to start engaging and driving more traffic?

Greg Rollett (04:58.136)

Yeah, so from what we see, and again, the cool thing is we get grommet articles published on a lot of these big publishers. And when they publish solely on their website, they'll post, here's a really cool gadget from the grommet, check it out. Well, within an hour, it's on the third page of their website. It's no longer on the homepage, and it just gets buried. And like you said, Google's not sending the traffic that it was. Social's not sending the same traffic that it was. And so us, we're like, hey, what happened? How do we?

And so getting them, like you said, to think more like a scrappy consumer brand is so smart for them. And whenever we get them to say, hey, can we create some custom content that is social first, that is going to be great for TikTok. And let's let that traffic run to your website where you have your affiliate links so you can get paid for that content. And so thinking social first, thinking short form, thinking, you know, how can we test out these new channels? How can we be scrappy? But the other side is

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:24.269)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (05:48.856)

How can we also leverage some of the content that our brands and our partners are creating and that we get to use? So here's the cool thing for these legacy publishers that I think is really a light bulb moment is they don't have to create all the content. And I think this is something like if you're a writer or a journalist or you have this journalistic thing that you're like, no, we have to write the review and it has to be in, you're like, well, this brand has 50 videos that they've already put on Instagram reels.

And three of them already have millions of views. Can we just repackage that and put our spin on it, put a watermark on it, run it out to our site and use that as traffic? Now, the brand, what do they want? They want distribution. They want to get more eyeballs on their products. They're like, well, cool, just use my stuff that I've already got. And if we're gonna be on your website and there's an affiliate link there or whatever it is. So there's this huge opportunity. I saw this with Entrepreneur Magazine. This is going back to 2017, 2018.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:33.921)

Thanks.

Greg Rollett (06:44.666)

I was at a conference event and I ended up at the bar sitting next to the editor of Entrepreneur and he was telling me how they wanted to get into video, but they didn't have the resources at the time. They didn't have the budget. They didn't want to hire. Well, we need camera people and we need editors and we need this and we need that. And I'm like, well, I have a show for entrepreneurs. It's on YouTube. There are five to 10 minute episodes. Put them out weekly. I'll give it to you for free if you want to put them up on your site. And it was crazy because he just goes, you would do that? And in my head, I'm thinking like,

You would do that? That's amazing. Like, and so literally overnight, my show went from three, 400 views on YouTube to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of views because they were putting it on their website. They were sending it out in their emails. They were reposting on social media. And so you're right. It's like this scrappy idea of how can publishers think more like brands, but also how can they leverage some of the assets that these brands are creating or partners are creating or people like the grometer creating or like, we'll hand you everything.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:13.912)

Right, right.

Greg Rollett (07:40.514)

So you don't have to invest in all those resources to test and be scrappy. Because I think that's one thing they think is like, well, do we have a writer who can write that? Do we have a video editor who can do this? And then, budget and timing. We're all strapped for time, resources, money, all their things. So I think if they think, how can we leverage assets that are already out there and put our brand spin on it, it'll allow them to be much quicker, scrappier, test things, and see how that stacks up with some of the business metrics of … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:59.853)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (08:05.954)

… getting more page views back to the website so they can get the programmatic advertising. How many more clicks are they getting to their affiliate links, they're generating more revenue. And let's be scrappy about it, because if it doesn't work, but we didn't invest any time into it, cool, then move on to the next one. So anyway, I know that was a lot, but that's kind of how I think about it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:17.675)

Yeah. Yeah. There were so many good recommendations there. And I would add to like influencer and creator content, whether it's upper funnel, like flat fee, or again, like add the affiliate link to it. but getting that kind of promotion, getting out there talking about whether it's just the brand, the publisher brand and reminding people like you know, who aren't now browsing the magazine rack somewhere or sitting at the doctor's office reading the magazines. 

They're, you know, they've kind of lost that traffic familiarity, brand familiarity. It's getting that through influencers or creators and video content. Additionally, there's all these technologies out there like shoppable video and I love your point, getting it into a programmatic way. I think another thing too is that they look like the CPG brands, for example, for years, you know, they're not selling directly. So they have to partner with their retailer partner. And if they think about it from that perspective, are there co-op opportunities? So are you promoting the beauty brand on Glamour in a video ad, you know, getting the traffic to the Glamour site to read the review or … 

Greg Rollett (09:40.622)

you

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:41.846)

… and I mean, YouTube videos doing that is a no brainer. It's if you've been in and you're probably not spending any time in Sephora, but I have a nine year old daughter and she wants to go to Sephora and the Sephora is filled with those pre-tweens because of the video content promoting the beauty brands. Now you can do that by promoting it to some of the beauty publisher sites.

Greg Rollett (09:58.862)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:07.638)

and get traffic that way. So I think you're right. There's so many things that brands, consumer brands that have had to be nimble and scrappy in the past, especially the D to C brands, it's like what worked for them, let's try that to drive traffic to the publisher to reengage. I think there's so many more things they can do with that. Then once they have the customer data, there's a lot they can do with it. So talk about what the grommet has done really well with your customer data and site visitor data.

Greg Rollett (10:46.956)

Yeah, I think one of the things that we do very well is to us, everything is about the shopper. How do we take care of the shopper? And we think that the best way to take care of the shopper is to get them into our world, keep them in our world, and then show them things that they are interested in. And so for us, everything on the grommet is now, well, you can see all the products on the grommet without ever signing in. But the big perk of, you know, creating an account on grommet is every time you upvote a product, you get a 20 % off discount that's exclusive to grommet shoppers.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:15.34)

Wow.

Greg Rollett (11:16.598)

And so we put that behind an opt-in, which means we collect the list. Soon as we build that list, well, now I know that Carrie upvoted this cup and she likes this coffee maker and she likes this pet toy and she's got a tween daughter because she clicked on these three makeup products. Well, now I know a lot about Carrie and with thousands of products on Grommet, I can now send her emails, I can do follow-ups, I can really create a relationship with her.  And so everything that we do at Grommet is about how we can continue to build data on a customer profile, in this case, like on Kerry's profile? 

And then how do we serve them the best way while also introducing them to new stuff? Because that's part of the grommet is you don't want to see the same cup every day in an email. You might have liked that cup, but like, what are the other things that are associated with that? Like if you've never clicked on a pet thing, you probably shouldn't get pet stuff in your feed. And so to me, this is huge. And we've run grommet, liking media property, liking newsletter that is like a personalized newsletter.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:11.79)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (12:13.304)

That feels good to you. So every time you open it, you're like, ooh, new goodies from the grommet and it feels good and it's exciting and you wait for things. Another piece of it that we've tried to do really well is like having themes and sections in our newsletter that make it feel like every Thursday is a new product day. So, know, when you open Thursday's newsletter, you're getting 15 products that have never been seen before. And so people wait for that. 

They look forward to that. This is exciting. I mentioned earlier I was in the music industry and touring musician and back in our day, and I'll put Carrie in this too, CDs used to come out on Tuesdays. And I would be the person who would be at the music store Tuesday after school, seeing what the new CDs were. Did Snoop Dogg come out with a new album or the Red Hot Chili Peppers or whoever that it was? And there was this excitement of what's coming out today. And so we've created that same kind of nostalgia. And we have other days where it's like Meet the Maker, a full profile on like.

How this person's story and how they spent years perfecting this and you know, they got on Shark Tank and they did a Kickstarter and now it's out into the world, whatever the story is, right? And we've created these media properties through our newsletter that gets our base of customers really, really excited. And it's not just like, here's 10 regurgitated stories from our website, go check them out and click on them, which is what a lot of media properties do. And...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:30.734)

It's great.

Greg Rollett (13:34.796)

So I think there's two pieces of this. One is do everything in your power to get as many people on your own media as possible on email. We know with almost every one of our affiliates, and I mentioned this earlier with one of, you know, they put up a post on their website for one of the Grommet products and it gets no traffic. The second they put it in an email and shoot it out to their people, like, I mean, the KPIs to revenue, it's directly correlated to email. Like it's always correlated to email. And so get as many email subscribers as you can and then find a way to

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:39.938)

Yep …

Greg Rollett (14:02.646)

Reward them and make it cool to be a subscriber and show them cool things that they're excited to open because I can promise you that no one woke up today and was like, my God, I hope I get 14 newsletters today with a whole bunch of news stories in them. I can't wait to click on them. No one woke up, but if they're like, man, holidays are coming around. I can't wait for that Grommet newsletter and see all the new products today because I need a gift for grandma or I need this or I like, now they're excited for our media, which our media, our whole business is based on selling stuff.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:05.518)

Thanks.

Greg Rollett (14:32.14)

Right, like our business isn't content like an entertainment story or the cool, like the new Taylor Swift review of an album. Like ours is like, here's a new cup, go buy it. Here's a new one, but we've done it in a way that gets our shoppers excited.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:46.284)

Yeah, I love so many things about that. And I think you're right. Thinking of the perspective of the traditional publishers that are trying to generate revenue through commerce content, which they also are becoming retailers and need to sell. And, but I love the most about kind of what everything you just talked about is how you're describing your what other brands might describe as our email list, our CRM, or our newsletter, you're describing it as a media property. And I think that is so smart because just renaming it and like almost productizing it from an internal perspective, you're demonstrating the strength and value of this content. You're recognizing that this is not just to your point of liking, we're going to send newsletters with products.

It's like really having a strategy, a content strategy and a plan and the customization tools within that. I sat through a newsletter or an email marketing seminar recently, and that was one of the biggest things they said is you're not, you're not, you need to be creating content that people want to read on the site. It's not like you're not just telling them what they, what they could already find on your site, but something new something exciting. so that in itself as a media property is so strong. Think too, you know, having that visitor to your site, even if you don't have their email address, there's so many ways to retarget them. And then we talked about whether it's a co-opt programmatic ad with the product and the publisher brand.

But or or just, you know, reminding them of great content, but there's so many ways to reengage that customer, that site visitor that again, the DTC brands are doing it. They know how to do it. How many times have you looked at a website and then five minutes later you have a social ad like it's thinking about it from that perspective as well. And I think that's such a smart strategy that you've put together there.

Greg Rollett (17:04.226)

Yeah, just two like tactical things to kind of build on that. One is, let's say you want to spend five days a week, right? Like whatever your cadence is, let's say it's five. Well, think about it like if you had a TV channel, you're a TV network. Like what are the five TV shows that your viewers must see this week? Well, that's your newsletter, right? Like, and so for us, it's like New Product Thursday, Meet the Maker Monday. Like what are the shows? Like, and so we think of our newsletters just like TV properties or TV shows or whatever it is.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:07.202)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (17:33.122)

And it's just sent in newsletter forms. I think that's one. And then two, just one tactic that's working so well for some of our publishers. And we've got them to kind of institute. We've helped them to create like grommet gift guides, especially we're recording this in Q4. So it's gifting season. Everybody's got gift guides on their site. Well, one way to easily port traffic to those gift guides, cause you're probably earning either affiliate revenue or you got paid for those placements is exit pops. And it's like, Hey, before you go, would you like us to send you our top 25 gifts for the holidays handpicked by our celebrity editor or like whatever, whatever the case is. Well, now you collect the email address. You know, you get to eat and now they are basically the shop, the viewer has said, I'm giving you permission to sell me things, right? Which is, which is like the best thing in the world. So the exit pop strategy and directing people to some of these guides that you've created. Again, you've spent the money and the time creating these, these media assets. How can we redirect that traffic? And so exit pop is a great way. You know, I know everyone like clown, like, pop ups and this, but like … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:17.858)

Smart.

Greg Rollett (18:31.886)

… but they really work, especially if you're trying to build a media property in an email list. And if that traffic was bouncing anyway, it's a last resort to, now, can you get 10%, 20%, 30 % of that traffic to now get into your own media? And now you have permission to sell them things.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:45.838)

Right, and I love that example, because you're not just saying, you know, like, give us your email address. It's like, we're going to provide value to you and in exchange, again, I love any way to capture their first party data email is so brilliant. And one of the things you just mentioned too was celebrity editors. So we talked a bit about in the startup world, the

There's so much around the founder's brand, the founder being like the face of the and the marketer of startups. And there's a lot of value to having a face of the company or somebody that is out there in other channels. So talk about what you've done with the grommet and creating that kind of personality to align with the grommet.

Greg Rollett (19:42.232)

So prior to going to the grommet, I was like a face of my own business, right? So I was like a founder led business and I was doing video for myself and I was, you know, I was the face of all the ads and you know, all of that stuff. Much like you are now like in your consulting business, it's the Carrie show, right? And so you want, but when you're now like inside of a larger organization … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:56.674)

Here.

Greg Rollett (20:03.208)

… some of that, like there's so much red tape or there's like a wall that's put up that says, well, no, we have to just do this straight brand by the guidelines. This is how we do things. And I just don't believe in that. And I don't believe that that's the world that we are in right now and how discovery happens, how relationships happen. And so I've really pushed, know, the team at Grommet and Giddy up and some of it has been, you know, ask for forgiveness and just push stuff out and ready fire aim is like one of my favorite, one of my favorite mantras that I live by is like,

All right, we got an idea. Let's fire it out into the marketplace. It doesn't have to be perfect. And then once we get some data around it, let's aim it. And I believe that I've always believed and this is the first book I ever wrote that says that people buy from people and they buy from people that they know, like and trust. And so from day one at Grommet, I'm like, all right, I'm just going to own the person. I'm Grommet Greg. And so every email that goes out to our brands or affiliates is Greg from Grommet. Every video, it's like …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:43.704)

Great. Yes. Yep.

Greg Rollett (20:55.086)

… How's up guys, Greg here from Grommet and I'm going to talk to you about blah, blah, right? I'm doing, you know, short form videos for brands and for shoppers. We do a live shopping show that I host along alongside Marcy McKenna, who's, you know, comes from QVC and HSN and, but it's like, we have done a really, and we're not even great at this, but I think we've done a pretty good job at leveraging me in this role to build these relationships and have them. And is there a risk … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:17.422)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (21:20.62)

… to your employer potentially, of course there is, right? Like you could leave, could, but like while I'm here, I'm giving a hundred percent and the more, the bigger my brand gets, the more opportunities come into Grommet, the more inbound comes. And so I think this is a huge opportunity for brands, whether you're, you know, a journalist at a publication like Condi Nast, whether you're an editor, whether you're, you know, on the brand side, of course there's founder led stuff, but the more that you can like,

It's great, I share this email example all the time. It's a company called Breeze. They're a beverage company and all the emails, no email ever comes from Breeze. Every email is Corbin from Breeze or Aaron from Breeze and Nick from Breeze. And they all have different roles to play. And I love this. Like Corbin's the guy who's like, Hey, I was at my grandma's house last week and like, and you know, I opened her fridge and my God, there was Breeze in there. And like, whatever it was, it's so silly, but you're like,

I know this Corbin guy and I like him and I know about his grandma and I know about the vacations he's going on. And so like, I want to buy from Corbin or I want to buy from Nick. I want to buy from Aaron. And it really changes everything about your business when there's a human being behind your brand that you can fall in love with. And it's why, you know, magazines have done this forever with the, you know, the first page of the magazine you open it, what is it? It's a letter from the editor because you want to get, you want people to, you know, know the editor and who he is. And he talks about his, you know, adventures that month or whatever.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:36.6)

Right.

Greg Rollett (22:42.996)

Now in digital, it's easier not just for the editor to do it, but for everyone in the business to do it. And I think it's a mistake if you're not allowing your employees, your team, especially your senior leaders to go out there and build these brands and not just sit behind the glass door. And so I'm a big proponent of it. And I believe that you are too, like, let's get out there and build these mini media brands for our larger brands.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (23:08.236)

Yeah, and again, it's so smart. I think too, it's like, I get it, like not every founder, not every writer or editor or product review expert is going to feel comfortable being that like social space face or, you know, doing ad hoc videos. But it's so important for the publisher brand that it's like find

Find those people. All of your editors don't have to want to also have a social media personality and presence, you just need a few, to your point of the breeze example, you just need a few people out there building their brand, but promoting the publisher brand.

If there's a beauty editor or a tech editor, which I know all of the publishers, especially before the commerce, commerce content space, they have their subject matter experts help them become their own media brand. Well, you know, it can look like an influencer and creator of content. can have the links to track back. You can then, you know, reformat for paid social ads or other video ads. Like there's so much value there.

And again, I think that's another really great idea for publishers to really think more like brands to drive that traffic back to your site and drive that engagement and click through sales for the products that they're reviewing.

Greg Rollett (24:41.272)

Let me, I wanna share just one tactical thing on this, cause I think this hopefully will, so again, like let's say you're a journalist, you're an editor, well, A, you should be proud of the work that you're publishing, right? Or else you shouldn't be publishing it, right? But there's such simple things just in the promotion of your own content that you're creating, right? You're already creating articles or newsletters or videos. And so I think one of the easiest things to do is like a green screen video of, you have your article screenshotted on mobile and then you just get up and you're like,

Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:51.02)

Right, Yeah.

Greg Rollett (25:09.336)

Hey guys, I just published this new article. Here's three insights you're going to get from it. You know, swipe up or click the link to check it. Like that's content, right? And to your state is like, all right, publish a couple of those. Let's see, did one of them take off on Tik Tok or did one of them take off? Maybe now let's put some ad money into that because we're going to get more traffic back to the article. And so that's, that's something that like everyone that's creating content for one of these large publishers, that's an easy one that you could do. The second thing is if you don't like doing video, don't do video.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:33.966)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (25:38.722)

You could do pretty images. You could do carousel cards. You could take a quote from your article. Twitter is still, or X is bigger than ever. If you love writing, go on X. And so there's a place for whatever format. If you don't like getting on camera, do voiceover videos. So there's so many opportunities to do this that are low effort, but high reward. So a green screen video, you could probably film it, edit it, publish it in five minutes, 10 minutes.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:39.224)

Right. Yeah …

Greg Rollett (26:05.654)

And so that's not a lot of time away from your daily tasks. It's not like you spend a day creating a video. So your boss is getting mad at you, but you know, screenshot, open up, you know, cap cut, do the green screen. Hey, what's up guys? This is Greg. Just published this cool, like five minutes. And I think you'll be really excited at those, at the opportunity that comes with that.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (26:24.344)

So smart. I think one other thing you just made me think about is, especially with the product reviews, commerce content, is that there's often a little bit of skepticism. Did that person, that editor or writer actually review the product and touch it and feel it? And I know, especially like Wirecutter, they pride themselves on, we're actually like touching, feeling, running in the running shoes. So just that.

In addition to your point, I'm holding the shoe that I just reviewed. Yeah, adds a little bit more authenticity and credibility. And as you said, beginning, it's trust and relationship with the brand, the publisher, the platform that is going to drive that sale. So many great ideas here. I'm excited for this. It's just so

Greg Rollett (26:55.854)

Yup, it, yeah.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:18.05)

There's so many recommendations that any publisher should be thinking about to drive that increased traffic and engagement and ultimately revenue driving activity. So this is great. Greg, any other last recommendations or tips for the audience?

Greg Rollett (27:35.98)

No, this has been super fun. I think, you know, one of the big things is if you got anything, if Carrie said anything like mind blowing or I did, and you implement something, just tag us on social and be like, Hey, Carrie, Greg, I love that. Thanks for thanks for the episode. I think that's the biggest thank you that both of us can get is if you're listening to this, liking the content, you've got a cool idea, share it on social and let us know about it. That's like the best. Thank you to the entire world. And obviously like to leave a review of the podcast. So Carrie's doing a great job here, you know, so

Kerry Curran, RBMA (28:01.762)

Yeah.

Greg Rollett (28:03.854)

I think those are the best ways to say thank you if you got something valuable from today.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (28:07.886)

Great, Greg, thank you so much. Again, your recommendations and ideas are super valuable and this was awesome. So thank you.

Greg Rollett (28:14.648)

Thank you, it's fun.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

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Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled The Social Commerce Revolution: Building Revenue with Influencers and TikTok Shop, host Kerry Curran dives deep into the exciting world of social commerce with Vinod Varma, CEO and co-founder of Creator.co. Together, they explore how platforms like TikTok Shop are reshaping the way consumers discover and purchase products, and how brands can leverage the power of influencers to drive meaningful revenue growth. Vinod shares his insider insights on building effective influencer campaigns, the importance of fostering authentic ambassador relationships, and why creating top-of-funnel awareness is critical for success. You'll also hear his take on the latest trends in social commerce, including AI's impact on marketing efficiency, TikTok's growing dominance, and the game-changing potential of live-stream shopping. Whether you’re a business leader looking to unlock new revenue streams or a marketer eager to stay ahead of the curve, this episode is packed with actionable strategies to help you thrive in the ever-evolving world of social commerce."🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

Podcast Guest:  Joelle Moroney

Host: Kerry Curran

Title: Mastering Influencer Marketing in Regulated Industries: Navigating Compliance, Aligning Brand Goals, and Driving Success


Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.067)

 

And welcome Joelle, please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and extensive experience.

Joelle Moroney (00:08.724)

 

Hi, Kerry. So great to be here today. Joelle Moroney, CEO of Creator Collective. We are an advisory boutique firm working with creators, empowering creators, curating technology, as well as a global brand strategy for social impact.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:26.081)

 

Excellent. So I know, Joelle, you've been in the, you've had a front row seat really in the, to the evolution of influencer and creator and ambassador strategies. So share a bit about what you've seen and how it's changed.

Joelle Moroney (00:42.996)

 

Absolutely. So thanks for that tee-up for sure. Starting in, what I would call the first-gen version of influencer marketing in the creator economy with Timing and Conde Nast whereby it was at the time more celebrities and editors that were endorsing and or promoting the best in the breed for services and products through editorial and thought leadership.

I was lucky enough to be with InStyle, RealSimple, and Gourmet at the time. And then evolved into analytics, right? Because we all have to monetize the work that we do, which is of course a revenue boost platform. And in doing that, I went into what was cutting-edge technology with Data Zoo which was acquired by Roku, as you may know. And then also of course Yahoo. So.

Now here we are fast forward into what I would call 2.0, 3.0 creator version with influencer marketing. I feel that this will continue to proliferate the marketplace as we're looking to have influencers and creators tell brand stories in a very authentic manner that lands with their audiences.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:55.821)

 

Yeah, so as you've seen the explosion in the 2.0, as you said, what has been the most exciting to you?

Joelle Moroney (02:04.268)

 

Well, when I look at this, I think it's more about the fact that we're all creators in our own right. And it's also about letting authentic voices ring clear in verticals that we all care about, whether it's finance, food, travel, technology, there are ways to lean in and learn more about the best places to go, the best places to eat, the best guidance and principles in terms of your investments. We know for a fact that people are now leaning on TikTok and Instagram for advice with their healthcare as they are with their finances. So this is a very powerful platform and the accrued economy is starting to drive not just Fortune 500 companies, but also smaller companies as well.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:56.237)

 

No, excellent. And you're right. We've seen just how prevalent and pervasive really the TikTok people are getting your rate, financial advice, and healthcare advice. When I was involved with some research last year and actually a number one source reported that, in the survey, the number one source for information related to financial services was actually influencers. So at first, it made me a little bit nervous.

Because obviously, you don't want your Tick-8, you know, just a TikTok celebrity giving you investment advice, but then realizing, you know, it looked into it more and it's, there's so much even just general 101, let's get, you know, Dave Ramsey type of, let's get your finances in order type of, type of content out there that is useful, valuable and beneficial.

And to your point, having that, the brand kind of drives that conversation or builds the framework for that conversation can be so powerful for brands, financial institutions that want to build those connections with those audiences that are consuming that information and trying to learn and change their financial road. 
|
Talk about, so I love about kind of what your POV and your experience, what you've, you've shared with me is really how you help those kind of more highly regulated brands and institutions build those influencer strategies through that really authentic brand storytelling through brand ambassadors. So share a bit of how you build that framework and kind of start to make sure that you're helping brands connect and drive that audience engagement.

Joelle Moroney (04:59.05)

 

Absolutely. So just Kerry, there is a little lag. I don't know if it's on your side or my side with the wifi. You were freezing up a couple of times.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:04.535)

 

Yeah, it's okay, it'll be okay. It downloads to your computer and then.

Joelle Moroney (05:07.606)

 

Okay, cool.

Yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up because I do specialize in highly regulated industries, financial services in particular, as well as healthcare. And I say that because there are very strict guidelines that the creators must adhere to, right? In terms of making sure that they are landing within the guardrails of the guidelines for the company. Also, FTC guidelines we have to be mindful of as part of that.

And there are very experienced creators that we can curate to make sure that we know they are tried and true and also vetted properly within the selection. So I work with, again, empowering creators directly via talent agents and or creators directly that I have relationships with. Also curating different tech platforms that specialize in those particular areas to make sure that we are properly vetting these creators.

It is important because what we're finding more than ever, the CFO and CEO are very concerned, especially in our economic and political environment, that the influencers are going to stay on brand reputation, which is critical, certainly with financial services and different guidelines. And when you're providing this sort of advice, whether it's medical and or financial, there have to be some disclosures.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:25.177)

 

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Moroney (06:35.626)

 

I found in my work with healthcare that there were often ISI guidelines that we would have to put through the feed, which may look like a sort of impediment to some of the actual creator flow, but it's part of the disclosure and it lands well. It's fine. The audience knows that that's an important constituent to that as well.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:56.483)

 

That's great. And so when you're working with brands, you want to make sure you're tying it back to everything based on their business objectives. know creator and influencer, it can be a shiny objective. We need to do this. I saw a TikTok is big, but talk about how you make sure it really kind of connects to that, that is what they're trying to achieve with their other marketing strategies.

Joelle Moroney (07:17.804)

 

Yes. Yes. So I did mention that first and foremost, we want to make sure that we are building out a strategy that is in direct alignment with the business objectives. And then also the key metrics for success. What do the brands care about? What are they being held accountable for? This is where ultimately the ROI comes in and certainly the revenue model. But what we will also do is build out a brand brief so that we are very clear on the targets, the personas, and who they're looking to reach.

As well as the actual creator that will be representing the brand specifically. Then we look at the narrative that the client, in my case client, but a brand will want to make sure they're communicating to their audiences, keeping it tight and simple so that we are being very efficient with the creator's content and storytelling. The third element is looking at KPIs, right? Because we want to make sure that we're monetizing this and looking at the analytics.

Often I recommend or we look at a hybrid KPI because we're looking to build out awareness, certainly with revenue boost in your platform, you're doing this regularly with different clients, but we're also making sure that we're monetizing this from a building a greater awareness, upper funnel, as well as lower funnel conversions. That said, that will also help predicate what type of creator and who we want to align with the brand because their following will help with the engagement.

And for example, there are often brands that want to have awareness with a mega or a celebrity. Let's say Dunkin' Donuts, for example, with Charli D'Amelio. But then you're also going to want to have lower funnel conversion and have micro, and macro influencers who are regular customers at Dunkin' to share their story because we find call to action works well … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:45.571)

 

Yeah.

Joelle Moroney (09:09.998)

 

… when we have audiences that are super hyper-engaged with the micro and mega influencers.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:17.261)

 

No, that's great. And so you're working with the brand team at the, the, the marketing team and kind of brand lead at the con, the client side, and then building that brief, making sure you're aligned on the creators and the KPIs. And then, you know, talk about kind of how you help them navigate choosing the right creators or influencers to be part of the program?

Joelle Moroney (09:43.466)

 

Absolutely. So once we've identified all of the different sorts of framework elements, we then start to look at the influencer discovery process. And a lot of it can be a heavy lift on, certainly on my side, I have different constituents that I work with based on verticals specifically for experts. If we want a financial expert, for example, I tap into my Yahoo Finance category, talent recruitments.

But also looking at those tech platforms, I mentioned that curate the different influencers, most recently with Lincia in terms of being an advisor for them. There are, let's say, over a million influencers on the tech platform. There are maybe 20 million in the ecosystem, and two million are actually making money. But what we're doing is using AI tech recognition for logos to look at text logos.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:27.064)

 

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Moroney (10:38.47)

 

… and also just throughout their social feed, the affiliates that they may already have with the current brand. But most importantly, we're also looking at category exclusivity. We're looking at availability. So often you'll pick a sample set of creators to then build that out so that we know that they're on point with the brand strategist and build out different lookalikes to make sure that we have enough influencers that are properly curated so that we know to prove out the success of a campaign.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:11.083)

 

Excellent. And I know you also talked about diversity being an important aspect of kind of building out that mix of ambassadors and creators.

Joelle Moroney (11:21.582)

 

100%. So we definitely make sure that with every program that we recommend and build our strategy for we have at least 20 % of the creator portfolio filling into the diversity areas, depending on what the brand focuses and their target and persona. It's important to have a different share of voice, and different perspectives as we build out these programs.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:39.683)

 

Mm-hmm.

Excellent. And so as you're building out, especially in the heavily regulated industries, and you mentioned how to make sure you have all of the ISI data, but how do you communicate with the creators to make sure they really understand the brand safety guidelines? I think that's what I would guess is one of the biggest hesitations for specially regulated brands to want to kind of test into the influencer space.

Joelle Moroney (12:00.654)

 

Hmm.

 

That's a great point. I think we might've been talking earlier, there's this fine line between allowing the creator to have a free license to build out their creative and keep it very real and genuine and authentic with their audience, but then also staying adhering to the guidelines that are presented to them within the brand brief when we're working with the creator specifically. 

But it is important that they do stay within those guidelines when speaking to the different brand safety call-outs for a particular program. And they know that going in, but it's also a part of the curation and monitoring that will take shape with the tech platforms to make sure that they're adhering to these guidelines. And the content is reviewed and it is often reviewed by the brand specifically so that we're making sure that we're on point before we go live.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:09.537)

 

Excellent. So, you know, with creator content, you're reaching their followers and the algorithms are not always the most dependable from that perspective. So it seems it's become more prevalent to add paid media amplification to expand the reach. How are you going about building that into all of your strategies?

Joelle Moroney (13:32.394)

 

Absolutely, Kerry. So part of this is we know that we can build out different types of models in working with creators. The organic is fluid. We can estimate and do predictive modeling on impressions and engagement, but it's the paid media amplification boosting, and whitelisting from the influencers handle where we know that we can provide that guaranteed ROI, whatever the KPRs are specifically, whether it's impressions, clicks, or engagements.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:44.738)

 

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Moroney (14:01.518)

 

So that's where we leverage those best assets that we know the creative landed super well in terms of that content engagement with their audience. And then we can build out tests, iterate, and learn what is the best creative assets to leverage into the paid media amplification. And in most cases, we can find 3X lift by leveraging that influencer's handle to do that.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:25.037)

 

Yeah, so smart. it just extends the kind of value and usage of all of that unique content.

Joelle Moroney (14:32.578)

 

That's right. Another component to that is it's just such an efficient way to build out content for O &O channels, for CTV, for programmatic, for display, for recruitment, and for internal. I've done this with other financial services companies where they're doing this with their B2B channel. The influencer may or may not boost within their platform or externally, but they were also using those assets for webinars.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:38.009)

 

Mm-hmm. That's great. That's great. I mean, there's so much value and the whole benefit to the influencer and ambassador is to make it more relatable and kind of allow the creators to build that promotion, but also share value with their audiences. So it sounds, I know it's easy and amazing and kind of turnkey, but there are still a lot of challenges, especially, with brands that are kind of just getting newer to this. So what are some of the bigger challenges that you've seen and run into that you've had to kind of navigate and help clients with?

Joelle Moroney (15:39.638)

 

Yeah, I think that's a fair point. And I was sharing with you too, that just being at Adweek recently in New York, it was evident that most brands realize this is table safe. They should be leveraging the creator economy and influencers to help boost their overall marketing mix. It's proving the ROI. So that's one of the biggest challenges. And part of it is yes, on the creator and or agency tech platform … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:00.44)

 

Yeah.

Joelle Moroney (16:08.48)

 

… models, but it's also on the brand to have that tight API integration with third-party measurement, looking at media mix modeling and attribution to make sure that there's synchronization so that there aren't any inefficiencies in the way in which there's tracking. So that requires a media optimization team to thoughtfully look at the plan to build out that revenue and make sure that we're driving the conversions and or brand lift.

Whatever the case may be, whatever tools they may be using specifically. often there will be recommendations, but then it's more about the implementation that is very much a partnership opportunity. And I think there's a lot of growth that needs to happen in that particular area.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:53.453)

 

Yeah, definitely. Meaning, tying back the investment to actual business results, I know is always a challenge for any media strategy. And especially these days, I think brands are more and more leaning into kind of those lower funnel direct response initiatives because you can measure the click and the web form complete or the purchase. But to your point, it's like this, the kind of...

Awareness and engagement strategy-building aspects are so important and I think more brands should be looking at brand lift studies as part of their measurements.

Joelle Moroney (17:29.346)

 

That's right. And we know that I think eMarketer just gave a data statistic that there will be 20 billion dollars invested in the creator economy over this next year. That is extraordinary. And that, in my opinion, creators are becoming many media companies in their own right. So back to our original part of the conversation, whether it was Time Inc. in Stoudal, Symbiocor, or May as media companies.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:39.928)

Yeah.

Joelle Moroney (17:54.794)

 

Now these creators are individual media companies. So it will be who these brands and or agencies to not lean in, but to learn how best to work with them and to to have a middle zone. Right. Again, we want to make sure that this is landing real and genuinely aligning with the brands, but also within the context of it making the most sense with their brand safety guidelines and what they're building their trust and loyalty with their …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:07.043)

 

Mm-hmm. 

Joelle Moroney (18:24.014)

 

… consumers in an authentic way.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:26.753)

 

No, you're so right. You know, when I speak with a lot of kinds of leaders and the influencer and creator space and over and over, I keep hearing that brands, that's the biggest challenge. Let the creators create the brands they want to control. They're used to, you know, being part of the production and having the actors follow a script. So it's really hard to take that step back and think about, you know, the creators know their audiences, they know what resonates, they know how to get that engagement and the shares. so it's trusting the creator to be the expert on your point. And a lot of them now have their camera crew and their own producers. So it is just a more nimble approach to the more traditional scripted production. 

And sure, there probably is are still scripted points, but at the end of the day, as you said, as long as it follows the brand guidelines, and especially you can include any legal requirements, whether it's financial or healthcare related, let the creators create, because that's what's going to be most successful for your strategy and execution.

Joelle Moroney (19:49.418)

 

Exactly. And then just really completely holistically leveling up the fact that there's a real opportunity to make a social impact in doing this. And I've seen this firsthand with a creator, I work with Sheena Malwani, you know, where she will go on for the American Heart Association to work with the TikTok platform and do a fundraiser live just spontaneously. And when she can do that, …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:57.527)

Yeah, for sure.

Joelle Moroney (20:16.064)

… and engage your audience to garner revenue for the greater good, and then have a TikTok that will then match those donations. The numbers are exceptional and the revenue can be significant. And I think that's where the kind of spreading the joy aspect of the work that we do can have a lot of social impact on a global level with brands that want to lean into those different categories. So.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:29.145)

 

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Moroney (20:43.416)

 

When I'm working with brands specifically, I think it is important to have a sustainability message and or social impact like a city does with No Kid Hungry. There are just so many different opportunities to find real authentic, genuine connections that are driving revenue. Yes, from a profitability perspective, but certainly also to generate social impact.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (21:06.679)

 

Yeah, no, I love that. That's excellent. And so, Joelle, I know, thank you for sharing so much of your expertise with us. One last question is, what is your recommendation for a brand that's ready to get started, especially one in a regulated industry?

Joelle Moroney (21:25.686)

 

Yes, I think first and foremost, it's finding a trusted advisor to do that. found great success in having a lot of experience in different verticals, platforms, content, areas to monetize specifically for that brand, finding the vertical of focus in a brand and or tech platform that will help deliver on the KPIs that are most important.

But then really aligning with the activation and execution team to do that, to see it through. It's also important that there's an always-on methodology, not just a one-and-done because that can lead to more inefficiencies in doing that.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:04.801)

 

Excellent, and let the creators create.

Joelle Moroney (22:07.498)

 

Let the creators create and have their authentic voice shine through because consumers are super smart.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:11.747)

 

Yeah.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:15.171)

 

Definitely. Well, thank you so much, Joelle. I really enjoyed having you on today and thank you.

Joelle Moroney (22:22.061)

 

Thanks, Kerry, appreciate it.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "The Authenticity Advantage: Driving Engagement and Revenue with Curated Creator Content," host Kerry Curran speaks with Erin Gagnon, Managing Director of BrandCycle, about how brands can harness the power of creator-driven content to boost engagement and drive sales. They discuss how authentic, real-life product endorsements on platforms like Meta, TikTok, and YouTube outperform traditional ads by building trust and fostering stronger audience connections. Plus, they explore how performance-based models—using affiliate links, trackable codes, and measurable results—enable brands to align creator partnerships with revenue goals. This episode is packed with insights on leveraging authenticity to build credibility, enhance brand visibility, and achieve measurable growth.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled Full-Funnel Impact: Integrating Influencer Content Across Your Media Strategy, host Kerry Curran talks with Jaime Cohen, Head of U.S. Influencer Marketing at GOAT agency, about the evolving power of influencer marketing. Jaime shares insights on leveraging creator content to fuel not only brand awareness but also lower-funnel conversions and sales. She reveals how brands can maximize their influencer investments by integrating this content across social, programmatic, digital out-of-home, and even retail media. Jaime also emphasizes the importance of giving creators flexibility to connect authentically with audiences, balancing brand guidelines with creative freedom. Whether you're new to influencer marketing or looking to refine your approach, this episode offers actionable strategies to amplify reach, build trust, and drive real business growth through influencer integration.🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

A revenue based marketing strategy is required to drive business growth. I've been saying it for a while, your buyers need to have heard of you and trust that you can deliver what they need. Data shows the buyers are in control, researching and building a short list before ever connecting with your sales team.

How do your buyers learn about your brand and capabilities? Content. One of the most versatile and fast growing mediums for content is podcasting.

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "Podcasting for Business Growth: Leveraging Purpose-Driven Content to Boost Engagement and Drive Conversions," with guest Benjamin Shapiro, CEO of I Hear Everything

Benjamin and I go meta in this podcast about podcasts, discussing how to leverage podcasts to grow brands and drive revenue by creating audience-focused content that educates, entertains, and builds trust.

Here is a high level overview of his actionable strategies to engage audiences, establish trust, and fuel conversions:

𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗔𝗹𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗗𝗼𝗲𝘀𝗻’𝘁 𝗚𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗲 𝗦𝘂𝗰𝗰𝗲𝘀𝘀

B2B podcasts need strategy; recording and publishing without planning won’t drive results. Success requires creating engaging, valuable, well-researched content tailored to your audience.

𝗕𝘂𝗶𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗘𝗾𝘂𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗕𝗲𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗘𝘅𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻

Brands expecting instant results often fail. Focus on educating, entertaining, and engaging to build trust before seeking returns.

𝗦𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗴𝗶𝗰 𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗹 𝗜𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗴𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻

Podcasts fuel other channels—social media, newsletters, video—and can target any marketing funnel stage with thoughtful content.

𝗕𝟮𝗕 𝘃𝘀. 𝗕𝟮𝗖 𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁𝘀

B2B podcasts build trust and share actionable insights, while B2C efforts often prioritize brand exposure through advertorial content.

𝗩𝗮𝗹𝘂𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗚𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝘀

Bringing on partners, clients, or leaders boosts reach, credibility, and networking opportunities. Use ABM strategies to understand and address pain points.

𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁𝘀 𝗮𝘀 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗛𝘂𝗯𝘀

Repurpose episodes into articles, social posts, and newsletters to maximize value and audience engagement.

𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿𝘀

Hiring a producer ensures quality, saves time, and optimizes audience engagement. Avoid DIY pitfalls for better results.

𝗔𝗹𝗶𝗴𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗚𝗼𝗮𝗹𝘀 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗦𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗴𝘆

Define podcast goals—awareness, demand generation, or nurturing—and align them with overall marketing and sales strategies for measurable impact.

𝗔 𝗟𝗼𝗻𝗴-𝗧𝗲𝗿𝗺 𝗜𝗻𝘃𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁

Building an audience takes 3–6 months or more. Patience and consistent effort are essential for meaningful results.

𝗛𝘂𝗺𝗮𝗻-𝗖𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗱 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁

Authentic, empathetic, audience-focused content fosters trust and solves real problems, driving engagement and loyalty.

𝗠𝗮𝘅𝗶𝗺𝗶𝘇𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗡𝘂𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗢𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗲𝘀

Podcasts keep you top-of-mind with prospects. Use episodes and related materials for consistent, value-driven follow-ups.

For more about Revenue Based Marketing, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com. 

For more about Benjamin Shapiro follow him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjshap/

And be sure to check out Benjamin's Podcast Network and services here: https://iheareverything.com/

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "Prioritizing DEI&B in Your Business Strategy: A Core Pillar for Sustainable Revenue Growth," host Kerry Curran sits down with Kerel Cooper, CMO at GumGum, host of The Minority Report Podcast, and President of Advertising at Group Black, to explore the transformative impact of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEI&B) on business growth.  

 

Kerel, a seasoned industry leader, explains how diverse perspectives not only drive authentic engagement with multicultural audiences but also strengthen brand messaging and open new pathways to revenue. He discusses why DEI&B should be an integral part of a company's core business strategy—not a fleeting trend—sharing practical insights on leveraging DEI&B to build a truly inclusive brand that resonates with today's consumers.  

 

This episode reveals why DEI&B is more than a social initiative; it’s a vital growth lever for forward-thinking companies.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "SEO Strategy for Business Leaders: Unlocking the Path to Increased Visibility and Revenue," we sit down with Brent Bouldin and Scott Gardner of New Media Advisors to explore how a robust SEO and content strategy can future-proof brands and drive sustained revenue growth. 

With decades of experience in digital marketing, Brent and Scott discuss the evolution of SEO from a tactical tool to a strategic foundation for business success. They share insights into creating a Center of Excellence, building in-house expertise, and effectively securing executive buy-in to prioritize SEO as a critical revenue driver. 

For business leaders and marketers alike, this episode reveals actionable strategies for aligning SEO with core business metrics, empowering internal teams, and using data-driven insights to capture more market share and increase visibility. 

Tune in to learn how to transform your brand’s digital presence with a sustainable, high-impact approach to SEO and content marketing.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled From Traditional Search to AI-Driven Strategies: Future-Proofing Your SEO, host Kerry Curran is joined by Paul Shapiro, SEO expert from Uber’s web intelligence team, to discuss the evolving role of AI in search engine optimization. 

Paul shares his experience with AI’s transformative effects on SEO, from leveraging tools like GPT for content creation to navigating potential threats from AI-powered search engines. Together, they explore strategies for future-proofing your SEO efforts, optimizing AI-generated content, and ensuring long-term success in a rapidly changing digital landscape. 

This episode is packed with actionable insights for executives focused on digital marketing and revenue growth.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "Leveraging LinkedIn: B2B Organic Social Strategies for Enhanced Personal Branding and Business Growth," we explore the power of LinkedIn for B2B revenue growth with Indrek Põldvee from B2BGrowth. Drawing from years of expertise focused exclusively on organic LinkedIn content optimization, Indrek shares valuable insights on crafting an effective organic strategy to drive brand engagement, enhance personal branding, and ultimately fuel business growth.

Indrek and Kerry discuss the answers to questions like: How can I increase the visibility of my LinkedIn posts? What are the best strategies to gain more LinkedIn followers organically? What is the ideal frequency for posting content on LinkedIn? How often should I post on LinkedIn to grow my follower base? What types of content perform best on LinkedIn for higher engagement and impressions? How do I optimize my profile or page to attract more followers?

Discover the strategic questions every business should consider before investing in LinkedIn, learn best practices for profile optimization, and explore proven techniques for producing high-impact, consistent content. Whether you’re a business leader, marketer, or entrepreneur, this episode provides actionable advice to maximize your LinkedIn presence and turn connections into measurable results.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

“AI is only as powerful as the data behind it. If you don’t trust the inputs, you can’t trust the outputs and that’s where most companies get stuck. It’s not enough to have automation or algorithms; you need quality, transparency, and alignment across your go-to-market motion. That’s the difference between tech that looks smart and tech that actually drives revenue.” AI is everywhere but without clean data and strategic alignment, it’s just noise. In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled, Smarter Tech, Sharper Targeting: Fueling Revenue with AI, Data Quality, and GTM Alignment, Demandbase CMO Kelly Hopping joins host Kerry Curran to unpack what it really takes to make AI work for B2B revenue growth. From smarter targeting to scaling with efficiency, Kelly shares how enterprise leaders can leverage AI-powered tools only when grounded in high-quality data and a clearly defined ICP. You’ll learn why GTM alignment matters more than ever and how to avoid the pitfalls of disconnected tech stacks and generic automation. If you’re building or optimizing your go-to-market engine, this episode is your roadmap to doing it smarter. 🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀 🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming! New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧 Follow us on Apple  Follow us on Spotify Watch on YouTube Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts.  To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.   RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth.  If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.   

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled Conquering the Retail Media Space: Strategies for Emerging and Established Brands, host Kerry Curran sits down with David Glaza, CEO and founder of Digits, a specialized retail media agency. 

With years of experience helping brands navigate complex retail media landscapes, David shares actionable insights for both emerging brands breaking into major retailers like Target and established brands looking to maximize ROI across platforms. From mastering personalized promotions to leveraging co-branded programmatic ads and optimizing local media for regional grocers, David offers a comprehensive look at the strategies that drive long-term success in today’s fast-evolving retail media space. 

Tune in to learn how brands of all sizes can conquer the challenges and seize the opportunities within retail media networks.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled From Amazon to Instacart: Optimizing Multi-Network Retail Media Programs, host Kerry Curran sits down with retail media expert Misha Cohn to explore the complex world of multi-network retail media. 

As brands increasingly shift budgets from traditional platforms like Google and Meta to retail media networks (RMNs), managing campaigns across platforms like Amazon, Walmart, and Instacart has become both a challenge and an opportunity. Misha shares his insights from years of working with Fortune 1000 brands, discussing everything from the evolution of RMNs and the consolidation of ad tech to the strategic use of data for optimizing ad spend and improving market share. 

Tune in to learn actionable strategies for navigating multiple networks, enhancing bid efficiency, and harnessing AI-driven tools to boost performance and streamline processes.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

"Retail media is the evolution of where media is going. Retailers have better data sets than most partners out there, and it's about taking all the greatness of marketing—data tied to actual conversions—and scaling it. The goal is personalization at scale, tied directly to sales, creating a seamless path to conversion while eliminating waste." —Mike Feldman

In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, Kerry Curran sits down with retail media expert Mike Feldman, Head of Retail Media at VaynerMedia. Together, they explore how brands can leverage retail media networks (RMNs) to drive revenue and maximize customer engagement by tapping into one of the fastest-growing areas in digital marketing.

Mike takes us through the journey from retail media's early days to its current "Death Star" stage—where seamless access to data, smart automation, and media investment are all aligned to power growth like never before. He explains the benefits of retail data consolidation, offers a behind-the-scenes look at retail media’s rise, and discusses strategic tools that allow brands to personalize at scale and reduce ad spend waste.

Tune in to hear about:

Retail Media’s Next Frontier: How data-first thinking and smarter media choices lead to better ROI

Winning Beyond Sponsored Products: Using creative, organic social insights, and video to engage customers and differentiate

Tools and Trends to Watch: From Amazon Marketing Cloud insights to social platform integrations, learn what will redefine the space next

For executives ready to tap into new strategies that move the needle, this episode delivers actionable insights for using retail media to optimize every stage of the customer journey.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here. 

 

In this special episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, host Kerry Curran is joined by Tricia Meyer, Executive Director of the Performance Marketing Association (PMA). Together, they discuss the latest findings from the PMA’s annual survey, which includes data from over 300 affiliate programs.

They explore the critical role of affiliate and performance marketing for brands focused on revenue growth, sharing updates on platform usage, publisher diversification, and the sustained popularity of coupons, cashback, and toolbars, as well as the increasing impact of influencer programs.

The episode uncovers strategic insights on optimizing partnerships, understanding publisher types, and leveraging various network models. With these research findings, executives gain actionable insights to unlock the full potential of affiliate marketing—whether through traditional coupon sites, loyalty programs, or emerging influencer networks—making this episode a must-listen for growth-driven marketers and brands.

🎙️ Thanks for tuning in! Struggling with flat or slowing revenue growth? You’re not alone. That’s why Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast brings you expert insights, actionable strategies, and real-world success stories to help you scale faster. 🚀

🔥 If you’re serious about growth, hit follow, subscribe, and drop a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating—it helps us keep the game-changing content coming!

New episodes drop regularly—don’t miss out! 🎧

Follow us on Apple 

Follow us on Spotify

Watch on YouTube

Read Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast transcripts. 

To learn more about Kerry Curran and the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors, go to www.revenuebasedmarketing.com and be sure to follow us on Kerry's LinkedIn Profile and The RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors Profile.  

RBMA specializes in business transformation to drive revenue growth. We lead companies move from an ABM strategy to a company wide Go-to-Market program that sets you up for sustainable, year-over-year revenue growth. 

If you're in the market for a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer or Fractional Chief Revenue Officer be sure to reach out to Kerry. Kerry is also available for speaking, panel moderation, and other professional presentation services. For services and contact information check out the RBMA: Revenue Based Marketing Advisors website here.