Fine. You're right. The title is also the name of a NOFX album. NOFX is rad, though, so we're keeping it.

This week, we're talking to a kickass guest, Sam Goodman, about making safety less sucky. Sam even wrote a book about it.

The truth is, a lot of people have experienced working with safety folks that just come across as assholes, or buzzkills, or cops, or knobs. It's not a surprise that most people aren't super-stoked to hear the safety person is on-site next week, right?

There are a few things that probably help dispel the myth that safety is about catching someone doing it wrong, though. That's what the lucky 13th episode is all about: what are we doing to make safety more relatable, useful, and less shitty?

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's episode 12, and we've got a new quote for a T-shirt, and instead of "goal conflicts," we just went with the title of the episode. Watch the merch store; we'll get it sorted.

So, safety first, right? Maybe. Sometimes. Definitely, when someone asks, I guess. Like we say in the episode, there's probably not a room of executives who hate everything safety. It'd be a weird party, though.

The boys talk through some stories, goal conflicts, impossible positions, error traps, and some other stuff that isn't exactly related but is fun anyway. It's a little tricky, and maybe the punk rock thing is just saying that "safety first" isn't possible.

Or whatever.

Come hang with the boys at the Punk In Drublic fest in LA!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Wait, can I be on the show? Good question. Talk to Ron, and make sure to bring bribery-flavored hot dogs.

Seriously though, there's no real plan, but if you have ideas, let us know.

This was an episode that included some discussion on leadership, but it won't be the only one. There's a lot to talk about, so it's probably safe to expect more on the topic.

Did we mention John Wilkes is on this episode? Give that guy a round of applause for his occasional poor decision-making. Seriously, though, check out what John has to say here and in real life. He won't steer you wrong.

Check out the next episode, and remember we're coming at you every two weeks now. Or fortnightly. Whatever you like. It's 14 days-ish. 

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

There was some very real belief that this was an April Fool's joke. It isn't. Sorry about that.

Ron, Dave, and Ben discuss what it means to be a safety professional. Well, if safety professionals are even necessary in organizations, Ron's not sure. Ben can't figure out how to go to conferences, so there are some helpful hints about how to do anything useful there. 

Maybe the podcast could replace a person? Probably not, but we'll consider it along with other options. 

Anyway, they should maybe be skeptical of their own importance. We share some ideas from other folks (Josh Kreger and John Greene are in that group) before we share our own. There's some discussion about why safety folks are dismissed as irrelevant or unnecessary and how we might better spend our time. 

And there's some generally childish banter, so we keep the streak alive. Episode 2 is maybe even more useful than Episode 1. You're welcome. 

Fea (fea210.com) does the intro/outro music. Check them out. And keep an eye out for PRS merch someday, too. 

The podcast continues, and up next we'll talk a little bit about leadership. And our first guest will join us!

We can't tell you much about that episode yet, because we don't want to spoil the party. But we think you'll dig it.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's the first episode of Punk Rock Safety!

Ben, Ron, and Dave are all over the place on this one, but we'll settle into a rhythm soon. In the true spirit of punk, if it isn't good, at least make it loud. So, you might want to turn this first one up.

That's ok, though. Safety works the same way a lot of times. There's experimentation and a need for intelligent failure. We're doing our best to manage on that second part.

In the next few episodes, we'll look at what makes a safety professional, the pretend choices between safety philosophies,  the concept of safety culture, behavior-based safety, MBWA, and probably some BS mixed in, too.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Snake eyes, MFers!

It's episode 11, and with a minute of prep or so, we settled on figuring out if people really are the solution to things, especially safety things.

Toxic Narcotic has a song called "People Suck"

I mean, sometimes, people are assholes, right? Or dumb? Or aren't they? Sometimes some moron tries to smash a can of triple-expanding foam with a forklift.

We don't really think people suck, to be clear. We humans are actually pretty cool. But maybe we're not the only cool thing or the only solution to problems.

Toxic Narcotic, People Suck - the video is here

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

The fact that we've made it to episode 10 is sort of miraculous. Like a stage diver, you don't have to want it, but it's happening.

We're talking about contractor management—or, as Ron calls it, "cross-boundary joint activity." Ron talks about agents and stuff like that, not even in the context of Agent Orange, which is probably a better conversation.

Ok, what we're really looking at is some of the mismatch between why we hire contractors to begin with. How do we reduce friction between clients and contractors? Is it about the alignment of goals? Dave says it's mostly the client's problem since there's a power dynamic, so maybe that's why inflatable rafts at concerts are important.

Like a "glory hole" of sorts, there are perspectives from both sides of the boundary.

Want to check out Agent Orange? You're welcome: https://youtu.be/4SHIEKeubCM

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

By the time this episode comes out, Ron will have defended his doctoral dissertation, a whole lot like Milo from The Descendents did. Except Ron is cooler.

We're talking about investigations in this episode. What are they for? Ron thinks they're a little different than Dave and Ben do, but the consensus from the boys is that a lot of the espoused values of investigating don't make it into practice. Is it a process of creating closure or are we just dumb?

There's some leftover conversation after returning from CHOL, but mostly, we talk about the competing goals and outcomes from investigations of events/incidents/accidents.  

What you look for is mostly what you find. So, if you've looked for this podcast, then you've found it, and you only have yourself to blame.

Here's a link to Milo Goes to College. It's a great record.

https://youtu.be/5qN3rAc5mPY

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

We said we were going to livestream, but we definitely didn't. Sorry. This shit's harder than it seems like it should be.

You should 100% check out the YouTube on this one. Other Ben did some sweet background editing because we were in a hotel meeting room with gold striped fabric walls that looked like a United Nations briefing room. That made it really fucking hard to switch the background, and Other Ben did some solid work here, so give him some love.

Uhhhh. Did we mention Ron's defense is on Friday the 28th? 

https://osu.zoom.us/j/93938693366?pwd=jBaGq9xR8aC4qI6r09oCVAz9I6hSbr.1 - but mute yo self. Nobody wants to hear you breathing heavy or your stupid questions.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

There's no better title than to make sure we've got Diane's name in it. Why? If you have to ask, go find out, then listen to the episode. There's a punk band called FEAR. Diane hasn't seen them. Anyway, fear of something different is sort of the topic for this episode.

We're posting a little early because the CHOL conference is happening this week, and we'll be live there, too.

Back to the important stuff: DCJ is kind of a big deal. Even bigger than Ron, and that's saying something. Diane shames us all by starting out with stories of going to Sex Pistol shows and pogo-ing until she could barely walk. Fucking legend.

Anyway, we talk about why safety professionals—and organizations, too—are afraid to try new things in safety. There's a lot that goes into it, and the consensus is that it's not about dumb people. Why can't we move beyond so many ideas we know aren't working the way we hoped?

So, how do we get past that fear and anxiety? Well, that's what podcasts are for, dude. Hit play and figure it out.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Ron's halfway done with a dissertation draft, too, so that's a pretty important advance.  

Don't forget to check out merch at www.punkrocksafetymerch.com

We'll be at CHOL in Henderson, Nevada in a few weeks, so catch up with us there, and look for a live stream episode during the conference!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

The fame is getting to Ron's head a little bit. Dave's too. Ben doesn't get out much, but give it time. 

This one is a little more serious for some reason. Maybe it's because we're talking about metrics and measurement (not behavior-based safety). The boys are all pretty wound up about metrics anyway, so it's a decent topic. 

Ron's back from Hawaii. Dave's on the way to Denver. Ben's headed to Nashville. All fun and games. 

There's a really strong pull to measuring safety in some way, and there's a lot of misinformation out there. The guys talk about why measurement is important - or if it even is - and that's assuming that what we're trying to measure is even the same thing when we say safety. 

So, if benchmarking isn't helpful, and some common safety metrics aren't reliable, what should we do? Two things come up in the pod: Reduction of actual, physical risk and strengthening climate. There's more to it, and you should listen.

Hey. Does anyone read these notes?

You should because we're ANNOUNCING THE FUCKING MERCH!

www.punkrocksafetymerch.com

Go there. Buy stuff. Look cool.

Let us know if we're missing anything awesome at info@punkrocksafety.com

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

There's some discussion around here about what the next topic should be, but we promise we'll figure something out.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

When's the last time the outcome of a risk assessment was a surprise? Thought so.

So why do we do risk assessments, anyway? Are we really making decisions based on them? It doesn't sound like it. Is it a social process, then? Shit, man, that's a lame party.

The boys try to sort through the mess of matrices, JHAs, JSAs, safety risk committees, and all that to get to what we actually expect from an assessment of risk.  

Oh, and don't forget the 1st Annual PRS Field Trip October 4-6 in LA at the Punk in Drublic Fest.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

In punk, being a sellout means you've abandoned the punk rock culture: anti-authority, DIY, non-conformity, and tearing apart systems that don't work for the people.

So what happens if you shake up the idea of safety culture as a cornerstone? Fucking sellouts.

The boys talk about culture, some new publications on it, and how it's used as a lazy response to issues with safety or resilience.

And there are some discussions about how to make the culture something more than just an excuse when shit goes wrong.

Maybe it's not about selling out? You'll figure it out. Listen to the episode.

Oh, and don't forget the 1st Annual PRS Field Trip October 4-6 in LA at the Punk in Drublic Fest.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's Episode 16, punks.

The boys start this one with a peek behind the curtain into just how much prep goes into the pod. Spoiler: not a lot. It's sort of like a punk show that way.

The topic for 16 is regulators, which means it's a great time for Pennywise's Fuck Authority (link in the show notes).

That's probably not a great way to handle regulation, though. So what can you do? Are all regulations important? Do we have to respond to each one with some sort of 'thing' we can point to to satisfy a rule, or are we just making shit up sometimes?

That's the topic when the guys can focus, but there's the usual bullshit, too. Check it out, there's actually some good stuff in there.

Pennywise "Fuck Authority"

Yep, they played it at Punk in Drublic in LA.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This one's a little different. The title may give some of that away (and it's a Bad Religion song).

None of your three hosts are tech wizards, but Collette Alexander joins the pod, and she is (even though she might argue that).

Colette has been a professional cellist, worked in software engineering at Spotify, and earned a Master's degree from Lund University in Human Factors. She's got a lot of tattoos, too.

There's a lot of banter, but the thing this episode really looks at is how reliability in software compares to other kinds of human work. And there's some thinking about why folks in safety often look at software as a sort of savior (hint: the software people are the first ones to tell you that reliance on software is a pretty fucking bad idea).

Colette shares experience with "shallow metrics," iterative design and test environments, and what Dave has named the five Cs.

We learned a lot on this one. Software, AI, and digital safety tools are still a weird, wild world - at least if we don't understand the limitations. 

Bad Religion "21st Century Digital Boy"

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

We keep forgetting (except for now, because we're definitely mentioning it) to say that there's some evidence that Fat Mike from NOFX loves the podcast. We'd go so far as to say it's his favorite pod.

We're the "Seal Team 6 of podcasts," says Ron, because there's no prep at all except Provan. That guy has always been pre-gaming.

So, the boys take on the topic of evidence-based safety, whether safety is a science or if we're just doing it for The Cause (see, there's a NOFX reference).

Who gets to decide what evidence matters? Probably Ron, because he was in school the longest of anyone. Is evidence saved for those things we don't agree with, because it sure seems that way sometimes.

Safety is a little weird in that there isn't a lot of experimental evidence, but that might be a feature, not a bug. It is a challenge though, and maybe something that makes it tough for safety professionals to know what to rely on as a sound foundation for practice.

Not sure relying on this pod as a source of knowledge is best, but you should listen anyway.

NOFX The Cause

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Yet another NOFX inspired title, huh? Yep. We're a one-trick pony around here.

The boys have finally gotten around to human error, which is a theme for this podcast anyway. Maybe there's a difference between fuck-up and error, though?

It's been a "squishy" part of understanding safety, incidents, performance, efficiency, etc. for a long time. Mostly, Ron just likes saying "squishy."

So, what is human error? Is it a legitimate concern or a red herring? Where does intent and context come into the equation? Somewhere in the mix of stupid conversation, there's some useful discussion on all of those topics and more.

What do you think? Is error just a function of random variation or is it the dumb people that are causing all the problems?

NOFX "War on Errorism"

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Sometimes bad shit happens to good people. We know it's weird, but here's another episode with a NOFX title. This time, it's a song about Tony Sly's (from No Use For a Name) death. Good dude and an awesome musician, but dead way too early.

What about when organizations that are trying really hard to do safety stuff have an accident? Or a fatality?

That can feel tough to reconcile, even though we can (and should) separate outcomes from building systems that effectively reduce safety risk. What do we do when there are emotional or political calls for something more? There's something unsatisfying about saying that sometimes shit happens. There's some tension there, and that's what the episode is about.

The boys talk about who decides what a "good" organization is and what a "bad" outcome is. Dave - the lover of zero - makes a good point about understanding the difference between doing lots of things and an actual, meaningful change to work. How do we figure our way around failures of foreign, peeling back layers of monotony, and all that other stuff.

We're biased, but we think it's a conversation worth having. You could be really good at safety management and have a fatality (and the other way around).  

"What if all organizations are just as fucked as each other?" Exactly.

NOFX I'm So Sorry Tony

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's a Christmas miracle! We made it to 21. Seriously, though, this episode is coming out on Christmas or the day after, depending on where you are in the world. You're welcome.

Man, some weird shit's been going down in the world of CEOs lately. We promise we have nothing to do with it. But this episode does. First, it's important to point out it's not a NOFX reference this time. It is a song from Crass, though, so this one's for you if you like old-school shit.

There are a lot of references in safety about the importance of top-down support. Cool, what does that look like? If we want CEOs doing CEO shit, then we probably ought to figure out what that is. What does an executive leader owe us (besides a living, hopefully) for safety?

CEO shit is a lot about uncertainty and tradeoffs, and just maybe most other folks don't see behind the curtain to what those tradeoffs are. That's probably where safety folks come in. CEOs are usually pretty good at a lot of things. Safety isn't always one of them, so hearing about the safety implications of leadership decisions seems important.

Anyway, we probably solve it completely in this episode.

Crass: Do They Owe Us A Living?

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Josh Bryant joins the pod for this episode because Ron's out doing real work, apparently. Joshie is a big-time safety and risk guy in the mining industry, and he's Australian, so this episode gets a Frenzal Rhomb song title to match.

Not wanting to disrupt the norm of unpreparedness, the boys figured it out on the fly (even though it was Josh's job, and if he cared more, he'd have done it better).

The topic: "What's going on out in industry with all this safety stuff?"

The two guys without actual jobs are seeing a lot of the same themes, including an increasing awareness that maybe focusing all our effort on tracking safety numbers and stamping them out with bonuses or punishment isn't the best approach. Even though there is a shift in safety thinking, many of the folks doing work would say there isn't much change in how safety is actually getting done.

That's mostly where this episode goes, including some pretty good advice (and some sketchy advice) from Josh on how things have worked in his company and industry.

Josh doesn't play guitar, so PRS is just a bass and a drum kit until Ron gets back. How fucking punk is that?

Frenzal Rhomb: Digging a Hole For Myself

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Shit. Things are crazy, man. As the Bad Religion song says, "Los Angeles Is Burning." Link to the song below, if you're into that sort of thing.

Seriously, though, if you're one of the 11 listeners and you're out in LA and need help, drop PRS a line at info@punkrocksafety.com. Punks help punks - always.

In the middle of all the chaos out on the West Coast of the US, there are some really cool stories of resilience.

So, that's what the boys are talking about in this episode. Resilience isn't something you have, it's something you do. Or maybe it's something you have. Shit. It could be either one, depending on where you look.

Maybe that's why there are so many views of resilience. In the pod, we're talking about resilience at a system level, specifically how systems can deal with failure, etc., and maintain their core function to at least an acceptable level. Like how you keep the show going after Fletcher absolutely destroys your bass or drum kit.

There's a lot of name-dropping and big words in this one, and that's mostly Ron's fault, but this is a topic where it's worth going back to Cook, Woods, Rasmussen, and so on. They're like the Sex Pistols or Ramones of resilience - everything after is built on that foundation.

So, how does that work in a normal organization? That's what the boys try to solve in just under an hour.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Don't you think Punk Rock Safety isn't taking safety seriously enough? Making jokes about safety is surely a sign that some idiot doesn't care enough, right?

Uhhh, no. And that applies to safety pros who are having a good time, laughing, and joking as they do their jobs, too.

Why aren't people saying, "Whoa, this is fucking awesome!" when the safety folks come around? If the seriousness that a lot of people think is associated with safety was working, we wouldn't be fighting to get folks' attention all the time.  

If safety is supposed to be about valuing and connecting with people, then we have to bring in all the stuff that makes life interesting.

That's a big part of punk, too. Connecting with people through a common story and supporting one another even when shit gets gnarly.

Fun and serious aren't opposites, dude, and if it's boring even to the people doing it, what the hell chance do we have of being helpful?

The boys talk about safety as the "fun police" and more. It's a super serious conversation. Pinky promise.

NOFX The Idiots Are Taking Over

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Two-thirds of the dickheads on this podcast are consultants, so an episode about consulting seemed like a good idea.

Also, there's a lot of chatter at conferences, online, and probably in bars that play ska music about how safety has just become commoditized and monetized. Usually, it's a consultant trying to sell something who's saying that.

Ben, Ron, and Dave head into the dimly lit back alleys where consultants apparently live to look at the good, the bad, and the sometimes fucked up realities of bringing external help into organizations. The reality for many organizations is that more help isn't coming. The safety team isn't hiring, and folks are constantly being asked to do more with less.

The boys think that's where good outside help is huge. Like the Wolf in Pulp Fiction. Sort of.

The role of consultants as "force multipliers" isn't made up, but they should be there to sit in with the band when Ron doesn't show up, not hang out forever like Yoko. And if some chucklefuck has an answer before they even get to know your organization, you should probably show them the door.

The crew examines why some consultants do better than others and how organizations can best use outside expertise (like a solid opener or a supergroup like MFATGG). Now that he has a real job, Ron adds a few points from the perspective of someone actually hiring consultants to help out. The short version is that if you're picky about who you let on stage, a consultant can be a lot of help. Watch out for the assholes that show up already knowing all the answers (or with nine dudes carrying horns - that's a ska band), though.  

Bonus: Includes discussions about snowboarding, basketball, and potential international deportation policies.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's almost a theme at this point, but if you guessed the episode title is also a NOFX song, you're the winner. It's a pretty deep cut from the Backstage Pass album, but it gets right to the point of this episode - that culture shapes meaning. And safety can mean a lot of different things when we aren't careful to understand it in the context of culture. We could have gone with the Pennywise song "Society," but we didn't. It's cool if you like that one better.

In this episode of the PRS podcast, the boys discuss the challenges of implementing global safety standards while being culturally sensitive. They highlight the importance of understanding local practices and adapting safety protocols accordingly. Ron shares some experience with a learning team in Malaysia and the cultural barriers that can make effective communication super difficult.  

If you only get one takeaway from this one - and that's a stretch sometimes - it's the need to standardize outcomes, not processes or even policies, as a way to aim for global consistency with locally relevant practices. Safety is very much affected by imposing Western safety norms on diverse cultures, and without a solid interpretation of local and societal norms, that can be dangerous.

Ok, get to it then. 

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Hey, you guessed it - a title from a NOFX song.

This time, the boys are talking about power. It's a pretty punk rock topic, because there's a lot of music about subverting power.

The conversation starts with the same BS as usual - you're welcome. Eventually, it moves to the good stuff of complexities of power and politics in safety and the importance of decentralized decision-making and deference to expertise. The boys discuss the impact of power imbalances on team dynamics, communication, and safety, and links to studies and real-world examples.  

Really, there's a lot of evidence that supports how important it is for safety professionals to address these issues and promote open, honest communication. There's more to it than that, but you'll have to listen in!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Like the Sex Pistols song, but with more cowboys and stuff.

There's been some talk of abolishing the health and safety regulator - OSHA - in the US. It's pretty punk to think of full-scale safety anarchy, but is that what would really happen?

Maybe leaving safety performance up to companies wouldn't be so bad. After all, things were going great before regulation, right? It was a magical place where FSMM reigned supreme. At least sometimes.

The boys haven't been good about predicting the future so far, so this episode probably isn't much different, but there are some solid points raised about what actually encourages safety in industry. Anyway, Reagan Youth probably has something to say about what sure sounds like "trickle down safety."

Listen in and let us know what you think. LinkedIn is where all the most punk rock conversations are happening.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Ron is back!

Turns out that even a punk band needs a lead guitar, no matter how simple some people say it is to play.

In this episode, the boys stumble onto the topic of whether safety can be a simple formula. There are some recent publications that represent it that way, but it's sort of like trying to define punk music. There are probably a million ways to describe it, and in the end, it doesn't matter anyway.  

We've already covered safety metrics on PRS, but this is a little different. It's about simplifying safety to some two-dimensional BS.

Also, the formula idea is sort of bad. Using made-up numbers, constants, measures of effort, or whatever else to arrive at a safety score is mostly wasted time and maybe just harmful.

Listen to the pod for more inspiring advice!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

First off, every new episode is sort of a surprise, but making it to Episode 30 is about 29 more than the boys expected. And of course the title is from a NOFX album.

In celebration of Ron's (new) real job at a bit of a startup, we thought that talking about how you'd build your safety empire from scratch might look. The boys' discussion centers on starting with executive leaders to create a vision for what really good safety would look, sound, and feel like.  

There's - shockingly - a fair bit of BS in the middle, but the boys eventually get around to a few of the benefits of building things up in a small organization: there's room to do some experimentation, a chance to manage messaging about safety with a small crew, and the opportunity to come up with a solid 30/60/90-day plan (or 100-day if you use the Australian conversion rate).

The consensus, if you can call it that, is that agreeing on principles around safety may not be enough. You need some specifics, and in a small group, that might come from consistently having in-person time between leaders and safety people. It might be asking folks what certain approaches to operations might look like to meet acceptable levels of safety risk and then giving people choices. There's more than one way to write a song, too, so it's not the end of the world.

Anyway, when you get the chance to start from scratch as a band, there aren't a lot of people at the shows. It's a good time to figure out your tone and get to know your audience. Same in an organization. 

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It was sort of like a NOFX show. People had the wrong time, Ron rolled in when he felt like it, a lot of friends were there, and a few hooligans showed up to make sure we actually did something.

Seriously, though, thanks to the gang for ideas and discussion. It wasn't quite as messy as inviting Fletcher on stage, but we've got time to work up to it.

With the faithful there (and Ron later on), the discussion started out by asking: "Is any of this actually new?" There is a sense sometimes that there's just a bunch of rebranding going on. Maybe that's something the people with real jobs see a little bit more of.

Speaking of real jobs, David Strano wins the quote of the day with "Work fucking sucks sometimes." Amen.

All of this talk about safety can get lost without acknowledging that not everybody thinks about safety like we do. They probably shouldn't, because it would be weird. That means what we do in the name of safety has to actually change the work for the better. It probably also means that if you're doing safety, you should also spend some time actually doing work if you can. Not just a simple shadow for a day. Actual real work, at as many levels and departments as you can.

The boys - really the guests on stage - talked a bit about middle managers, too, and how they can maintain a connection to work while trying to support innovative ideas. Safety can seem like the opposite of innovation sometimes, right? Innovation is risky, so there was some talk about how we set people up for successfully testing new ideas, especially ones that affect the safety of work.

Anyway, give it a listen. It's a nice break from Ron, Dave, and Ben all the time.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This week, the boys are talking about theory and practice, because, as the listener who submitted the question says, "fuck you, that's why."

It's true, there's a lot of safety literature out there that's gotten more head-up-its-own-ass. Moralizing about safety is cool until it isn't, and the question is a good one (it was something like wanting to hear more about decision-making and doing things instead of recycling ideas as a career by itself).

It can feel like things get way too academic and maybe even elite. 

That said, the boys argue that people don't need things "dumbed down" for them, either.

The whole point of this little podcast is to be able to question things about safety. It seems like an awful lot of discussion, sometimes a little rowdy, is about whether something is "just theory" or if it's actually useful.

Being useful is important, but asking who something is useful for is just as important. And being useful isn't something that just happens. It's based on theory, too.  

So there's the thing. Dave brings up playing bass with only 2 or 3 strings, which means that even though the guitar company thinks they're important, Dave doesn't. The boys talk about making sure front-line folks have tools that work - but people work in other places, too. That gets back to the "Who is it useful for?" questions.

Solid quote from Dave on this one, by the way: "Theory isn't just pontification, like people sitting around on whiteboards just making shit up, proposing stuff."

Theory is observing patterns that actually happen in the world, and then trying to come up with models about why those patterns play out, and in what situations it matters. Otherwise, how do we build tools and predict those patterns in a way that's connected directly to work.

So principles aren't theory. They're underlying values and guides for understanding.

Does theory matter? Do principles matter? Yup.

But as important as they are, theories and principles aren't solutions by themselves.

Maybe that's the disconnect: treating principles as solutions. If you're into the whole work-as-imagined thing, that's pretty close to describing theory. There's some disagreement between the boys about starting with the theory vs. starting with observations in the organization. Here's where you probably ought to listen in to see how the conversation pans out.

Arguing about what punk rock is can sometimes just get in the way of the music. 

The whole answer is never in the book. It's probably not only at the point of work either. Like the description of this stupid podcast says, do shit that works.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

"I think the context was kind of like, how do you go about trying to maybe introduce or convince your organization on some of the more contemporary ideas, when your organization is deeply rooted in zero harm and... Well, I think that's mostly it. Or something like that."  

It's our first *official* episode dedicated to a listener question, and Dave totally nailed the summary with the leadoff quote.

So what happens when people in authority are focused on zero? Well, for one, you name the episode after the band Authority Zero.

It's not super constructive to come out and say that zero harm is stupid. Feel free to give it a go, but the boys wrestled with where it's okay to agree on the big ideas - like don't kill people at work - and have an adult conversation about differences in how we get there.

To our listener's question, though, the boys had a pretty solid discussion on introducing some punk rock in a Backstreet Boy safety world. Making the cost of trying something new low is important. We don't need to burn all the boss's shitty records just to have them listen to something new.

Focusing on deep discussions of principles is pretty lazy stuff, and then you get folks worried that we're saying harm is okay. It isn't, but maybe we should be focusing on asking leaders how, if it's zero harm or it's not zero harm, what does that mean for what's actually going to change in my organization? Are there unintended consequences of having aspirations of zero? And if there are (and there are), then what should we do differently to sort that out?  

Getting to a discussion that's somewhere between shifting an entire worldview and being too far down in the weeds is a tricky balance, but we're trying to get to a middle ground. At least a little bit.

The consensus seems to revolve around the idea that we don't have to lure leaders into the van with candy. It might just be that they haven't heard different ideas, and building from what they know to what they need is probably just fine. Maybe it isn't very punk rock, but not thrashing into a leader's office like we're in the mosh pit of contemporary safety is a better move.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This episode dives into what it really means to “do safety” when your job is inherently dangerous, like military, police, or even things like aviation.

The strategy has to be at least a little better than Live Fast, Die Young (that's the title of this episode, and for once it's not NOFX, but if you're cool, you know this one, too).

Ben, Ron, David, and their guest James Kolozsi (who’s got cred from his time in the military, police, municipal, and oil & gas) kick things off with the usual eight minutes of bullshit or so, but eventually get into the meat of the topic: in some jobs, you can’t pretend risk doesn’t exist. Instead, you have to own it, plan for it, and train like hell to deal with it.

James shares how, in the military, you don’t get to hit pause and fill out a risk assessment when things go sideways. Instead, it’s all about situational awareness, understanding threats (not just risks), and being ready to adapt on the fly. It's sort of about doing what you signed up for, too, but not applying that same logic to folks who aren't willing participants.

The boys talk about how, in these high-risk worlds, safety isn’t just a checklist or a pile of paperwork, it’s baked into the core of operations.  

Training is relentless, and the focus is on building real capability, not just compliance. There’s a lot of talk about how this mindset is different from what you see in most industries, where safety can sometimes feel like a box-ticking exercise.

The conversation also hits on the limits of procedures and the importance of sharing practical know-how; those “rules of thumb” that only come from experience. In the end, the takeaway is that in jobs where danger is part of the deal, you can’t eliminate risk, but you can give people the tools, training, and support to successfully adapt to it. And maybe the rest of the safety world could learn a thing or two from that approach.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Ian Madison rolls in with a background of ethically hunted animals (that's what he told us), evidence of like eight million Bad Religion shows, and some serious desire to talk about how traditional safety measurements are about as useful as a broken guitar string. Not a bass string, because a broken bass string is about as useful as the rest of them anyway.

Seriously, though. Check out the video on YouTube to see what Ian has going on behind him.

The episode title is one of the best punk albums of all time, The Process of Belief, from Bad Religion. It's a shoutout to Ian, and it's also a reference to the way we get hung up on our beliefs about what makes us safer and how we know. More on that in a minute.

We've already had an episode on metrics, but Ian was driving this one, and even though it sounds like a lot of measurement talk and bashing on TRIR, it's really an episode about the things that take attention away from what matters. And bashing TRIR. Weirdly, Ian can get away with a lot more than Ron on that topic.

Matt Hollowell and the CSRA get name-dropped for actually making sense, too. Not sure this podcast was the publicity they want, but you get what you get sometimes.

The boys cover a lot of ground on this one: spiders, tailgate-to-person ratio, donuts and cheeseburgers, and whiskey. It moves almost as fast as Smelly's foot during Linoleum. And that's pretty fast.

Back to the episode. It's seriously good. Like, just some dudes in a bar talking about safety stuff good. Ian has a way of simplifying concepts, smashing them into a story, and bringing people along in a way that makes a lot of sense. This episode has got a lot of exactly that.

And the boys may have talked him into joining the Second Annual Punk Rock Safety Field Trip in LA this October.  

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Even though they're not really into punk rock, Michael and Taylor from Imperial Oil are pretty badass (and the title of this episode is a NOFX song that Michael somehow remembered, so we'll take it). And they're movie stars in a video from Energy Safety Canada about the 4Ds from Learning Teams, Inc.

The Imperial boys are the first to tell you they aren't safety people - they're field ops guys just trying to solve some problems. Pretty fucking punk, right? Shit wasn't going the way it should, so they just figured out what would work. Not perfection, but progress. "If you just go in and do it, and you do it from a place of caring," people are going to be on board.

What the hell are the 4Ds Michael and Taylor are talking about (5 if you count Provan, because he's a D for sure)? They're questions about what folks see at work that are dumb, difficult, different, or dangerous.

Turns out talking to people about work does some other stuff too: like a 53% reduction in absenteeism and massive increases in time-on-tool productivity. Weird, right? Figuring out how work gets done and addressing it like an adult helps make work suck less.

For a lot of people, punk rock is a catalyst for being heard, for building family, and for expressing how they feel. For the teams at Imperial, using something like the 4Ds was a catalyst, too. Sometimes, it identified some problems that looked a whole lot like the supervisors and leaders in the organization. Those are tough conversations (like how bass players and ska bands are the problem a lot of times, too), but the boys took the conversations on and did the hard yards to figure out how to make leadership better.

Asking questions isn't the solution, though, and that's why you should check out the rest of the episode. Michael and Taylor have got a lot more to share about how they started learning about performance, labels, and leadership. They're pretty punk without even trying, and that's "The punkest mother fucker I ever did see. Ah hell, he's even more punk than me." Got a NOFX quote in there after all, punks. Shoulda gone for Propaghandi, since they're a Canadian band, but whatever.

The Energy Safety Canada video on the 4Ds

The Learning Teams, Inc. folks, home of the 4Ds, are here

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

"Sometimes work just fucking sucks"

That's what David Strano said back on the Decline episode, and if you're not careful, saying smart things gets you volun-told for a guest appearance on the pod. David's a former touring roadie turned HSE director. That basically means he knows a lot about both parts of the PRS podcast, so the boys are considering just handing over the reins. Shit, he even knows what episode number we're on.

It's a rare episode when there's not a NOFX song title involved, but this one goes way back in time with The Clash's "Career Opportunities" as a reference to shit jobs, success, and just getting things done in the face of a lot of competing goals.

Since David has a real job (even closer to the actual work than Ron), we had a cool opportunity to talk about workplace safety as it's seen and lived with by folks doing work, especially those at the front line.

David did 20 years of touring before Covid, and that's pretty rad. Except for the safety part. Nobody actually does that, apparently. It's the wild west, as David says, and shit happens as you might expect.

There's a big difference between compliance and looking for high-performance safety, but the reality is that compliance is still important, even if it isn't the complete answer. The boys talk a little bit about the difference between awareness and something mattering, too. And tolerability - like the idea that if you choose to work here in a high-risk industry, you've basically said you accept some level of risk.

Later in the discussion, all of those ideas tie together in a conversation about where expectations from customers fit in. Priorities - like getting a facility opened on time - mean safety drifts back to the old school view of production vs. protection, even when we're focused on more contemporary ideas. FSMM isn't meant to be the real deal, but there are times when it sure looks and feels like it is.

Anyway, it's an episode focused on how tradeoffs materialize at work, how having multiple folks with checkbooks shapes safety, and where compliance fits into discussions about front-line work grappling with safety as an academic abstraction.

Have fun, punkers!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

If you've never read all the way to the bottom of the episode notes, you won't know what PRSL is. Now you do. It's a good name for an episode, but seriously, go check out www.punkrocksaveslives.org. They're solid folks doing really kickass work. Not like this podcast.

In this episode, the boys start off debating the merits of bacon and egg rolls. Or egg and bacon rolls, because priorities.

Pretty quickly, things go headfirst into the world of “wellbeing,” getting glued onto safety job titles. We’re talking about how psychosocial risk has (sometimes) become the new buzzword, and whether that’s actually making work better or just giving us more posters and press releases.

We dig into whether safety is the right place for wellbeing, or if it’s just being dumped there because no one else knows where to put it. The real deal? Wellbeing only matters if we fix the work itself. Stop with the mindfulness sessions between 13 meetings and start giving people real control over their jobs. The wellbeing that really works: redesigning the work, not the posters.

If “wellness” just means more compliance for the sake of it, we’ll get the same result we got with a lot of efforts around culture - a brand campaign with no change to the conditions of work.

And yeah, Ron’s sleep pods might’ve been reasonable, but Dave’s story about an actual Australian office having a “masturbation station” took a turn no one expected. Ben reminds us, if your safety work can’t tie to actual wellbeing, maybe it’s just busy work. But when you fix the work, people get better by default. Or because of the pods.

Bottom line: Wellbeing is more than fruit bowls and yoga mats, and if we don’t change the work, we’re just putting lipstick on the same old compliance pig.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

First things first, fun without Dave already happened. Ron and Ben saw The Casualties, Adolescents, Adicts, and Dwarves. All of those bands have been around for a long time - like 30-40 years - and that definitely doesn't make us old.

It's another Bad Religion episode title. They put on a badass show at Punk in the Park, and they're old like us, too.

This episode is sort of a nod to Fletcher. Yep, he broke your guitar. No, he wasn't trying to be a real asshole. Fat Mike knows that's part of punk. Sometimes you have to go to the hospital to live what you say you believe. The circle pit is a fundamental part of a punk show, but you might lose a tooth while you're in there. When you fall down, though, the pit is a family. Everyone has your back, man.

Sometimes people are dicks (yeah, us too, even if we try hard not to be), but it seems to be a weakness in safety that there's not a lot of room for defending our process of belief. We've talked about dogma in safety before, but this is different. This is a conversation about how we deliver and receive dissent. 

Contemporary safety has grown a lot in terms of talking about empathy and understanding context, and that bails on it completely at the first sign of skepticism. Let's talk about the fundamental attribution error as something we need to be aware of and minimize, and then just assume the worst of people at work or in life. Is it just us?

Stealing (and paraphrasing) from Carsten Busch a little bit, shouldn't the "New View" be asking why things made sense to Heinrich - or others - instead of judging it based on the standards of today?

It's not a consequence-free world, though. Swapping skepticism for assholery might mean living with the knock-on effects of a decision. But starting with the assumption that everyone wants a safe company, we're just sorting out the details.

That means that learning about rules, biases, and beliefs isn't just learning about others - we have to apply the same standards to ourselves. Context, intent, care, and system design aren't just things that shape others; we own them too.

Way back in Episode 1, we promised to try and avoid corruption between process and intent. It's sometimes uncomfortable to have to explain our beliefs, but that's a feature, not a bug.

"Don't hear what I didn't say" might be a good way to start.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's a deep cut, but it's another NOFX song title for the episode.

Probably don't go to work wasted, but if you do, make sure you talk about it in the pre-job brief.  

Pre-job, or pre-task, or pre-work briefs - or whatever you want to call them - are sort of a contentious topic these days. On one hand, they're often connected to JSA/JHA paperwork, and that's not always helpful. There are exceptions, but there are a whole pile of bad ones out there. Shit like, "It's cold out there, folks, so make sure you watch your footing."  

Cool. That helps.

A real pre-job brief isn't about paperwork, though. It's about alignment of understanding and expectations (or a shared mental model if that makes you happy). Think of it like using small words and speaking slowly to make sure the bass player knows what's going on.  

Good pre-job conversations help identify a lot more issues and deviations from normal work than filling out paper for the purpose of satisfying a (sometimes imaginary) rule. Bad ones are a way to exercise control. And reinforce that people can't take care of themselves.  

Ron's got a pretty easy on-ramp to talk about joint activity for this one, so make sure to pay attention to that part. As much shit as we give him about it, he does know a thing or two about coordination of work across boundaries, like what you see between contractors and subs, or even between trades or specialties.

We can't give people a process and no capability, as Dave says, and that's what overstructuring a pre-job brief through form or process can do. So how can we facilitate good pre-work discussions? Maybe think about some not-lazy perspective where the purpose isn't the paper, it's to plan the work, identify challenges to it, and build in a bit of buffer between the shit that might kill us.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Another listener question. How good, right?  

The question? "I am still learning how to apply HOP principles. Can you talk about how they can be used to help us see and respond to risks that never show up in incident data?"

It's sort of a version of asking how we know what's happening when nothing is happening, and how the five principles of HOP, if you're into that sort of thing, support that. What five principles, you ask? The ones from Todd Conklin are: 1) Error is normal; 2) Blame fixes nothing; 3) Context drives behavior; 4) Learning and improving are vital; 5) Leadership response matters.

Ron starts by answering the question he wishes we were asked, and inadvertently points to some really cool info from the ICAO Human Performance Manual, Document 10151. It's not part of the actual answer, but you should still check it out.

Back to the matter at hand, trying to find problems isn't the same as trying to apply principles. Incident data can’t tell you everything, but maybe leaning on the intent of the HOP principles can help uncover weak signals hiding in plain sight. No principles will do the work for us, though, and it’s not about finding broken procedures, either. It’s about finding brittle systems, understanding everyday trade-offs, and asking way better questions.

Dave's recipe for success? Give up the 80% of "face-to-screen" time a lot of safety folks waste and get face-to-work (or face-to-face, or whatever else you want to put your face on). There's more to it, but the boys suggest we all stop looking through the rearview mirror and start paying attention to what’s just up ahead. Also: yes, there’s a glory hole analogy, and no, we’re not sorry.

The only thing that makes this episode better? A quote from a superfan posted a little while ago on LinkedIn. Fully out of context and in all its glory: "...never mind the quality, feel the width!" 
 

Want to learn more? Listen to the episode!

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

We're finally back to a NOFX song title, so things are looking up. A lot of the time, when we decide someone did something dumb, we say things like "dude, how'd you fuck that up, it should just be common sense." It's a good way to distance ourselves, blame someone, and be fucking lazy all at the same time. But what is "common sense" anyway?

Sometimes it seems like what we're trying to do is take credit for good luck and call it common sense. Taking credit for something you didn't create sounds like some big record label behavior, doesn't it? And maybe that's it. Maybe common sense is just a label used to feel powerful.

The boys kick around a few ideas, trying to decide whether common sense is something innate, taught, or based on experience - or all three. That sort of opens the door to wondering about where expertise comes from. If common sense is just a catalog of knowledge, you'd never cover it all, so maybe the intention is about knowing how to think or reason through uncertainty. Like when the Ceschi from the Codefendants' amp quit working at Punk in Drublic. They still put on one of their best shows by figuring it out as they went along. That kind of response seems to be what we mean a lot of times.

After the normal rambling discussion, the conversation takes a surprising turn toward relevance, with some ideas about acceleration of expertise and some of the generational gaps that seem to make discussions about common sense a little more rowdy.

You should probably just listen to the episode and see if you can figure out the answer. Why? It's common sense, dumbass.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Fine, Simple Plan is only sort of punk. Or punk adjacent. They're about as pop punk as pop punk gets. But it makes for a decent episode name.

Why, because safety strategy gets oversimplified a lot. Or really, the idea of it gets oversimplified.

Most safety strategy is a lot of BS anyway that ends up not being strategic at all.

The boys talk about whether or not a safety strategy is even useful. Ron says yes, which is a little surprising given his stance in Episode 2 that safety people aren't really that necessary. Ben and Dave (and probably Ron, too) instead argue that what we call strategy is mostly just a PowerPoint-flavored attempt at looking busy and useful.  

Safety isn't the business. It's a support function (a really important one, but it's still support, not the product) like accounting and HR. Those folks are rocking out 3-year strategy plans with big ideas about how Accounts Payable will be reinventing finance.

The organization has a strategic view - a big one - that other departments and divisions are meant to support.  

So maybe the best safety strategy is how we draw connections to support the broader strategy. You value innovation? Cool. We'd better get confident in how we understand risk and build systems that allow us to experiment without things turning into chaos. What'd you say about profitability? If we're working hard to understand work and get rid of dumb stuff, we're increasing efficiency.

Aside from those discussions, a whole lot of safety is tactical, right? That's where adaptability lives, and that's usually a part of what we want. Drawing out a three-year plan doesn't really scream adaptability - at least in the way it's often done.

The principles we're trying to achieve in safety don't really change, do they? It's the day-to-day management of risk and adaptation that does, and that means it isn't strategy. So, instead of creating problems to solve and putting them on a slide deck, maybe it's better to identify the top one or two things that really need our attention and go solve for those.

That's how experts work - not that the boys are experts - but it's a good indicator that your teams aren't checking in on the mission and vision posters as they make safety decisions.

Cool. Carry on, punks.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

The boys are back (and they're looking for trouble - see if you can sort out that lyric) for Episode 48, kicking off 2026 with the standard blend of profanity, punk rock references, and sometimes solid safety insights. And it's another NOFX reference for an episode title.

This episode tackles the problem of bloated safety stuff; those processes, procedures, and bureaucratic bullshit that organizations accumulate without ever stopping to ask "why the fuck are we doing this?" Inspired by a LinkedIn comment about Episode 45 with Perry, one of the six PRS listeners, the crew dives into the critical distinction between safety work that actually matters and compliance checkbox theater that wastes everyone's time.

Before a focus on safety, though, there's some discussion about HR and accounting sometimes trying to 'wag the dog' of operations. This isn't an HR podcast, though. There is some cross-purpose, though, and there might be folks conflating goals.

The conversation gets real about how safety professionals need to approach experienced workers with curiosity rather than authority. The guys emphasize starting from a place of "they probably know something I don't" - asking questions, understanding context, and actually giving a shit about people's perspectives before imposing solutions. They propose a practical exercise: list everything your safety program does, get brutally honest about why you're doing each thing, then talk to workers about better ways to achieve those outcomes. The goal isn't to eliminate safety. It's to separate genuine risk management from lazy compliance work.

Throughout the episode, there's the normal chaos: discussions of armed guards, activist emails, construction security, cricket matches lasting five days, and Ron's ongoing journey to the pinnacle of safety as an OSHA 30-hour certified trainer. The episode wraps with talk of upcoming guests and connections across the industry, proving once again that safety done right is about relationships, real conversations, and not being afraid to call bullshit when you see it.

By the way, if you're one of the six folks listening and you have suggestions for guests, drop us a line. Bonus points if they know things about safety and punk.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Happy New Year, you beautiful punks!

It's not a NOFX song, but the title is from Separation of Church and Skate, so that counts.

Shocking, but his one is a full “figure it out live” episode. No prep. No agenda. Just the boys looking forward to some time off, talking shit, and accidentally landing on a pretty okay idea.

There's a lot of the usual BS, but it's important to know that Dave rides an e-bike. Somewhere in the middle of the 8 minutes of dumb conversation that happens in most episodes, things turn serious (but not too serious) as Ron, Ben, and Dave start asking whether we’ve made work so “safe” that people are actually worse at dealing with real risk.

There's talk about pocket knives for kids, live electrical work, hand-flying airplanes, clean construction sites that still hurt people, and why removing every hazard might also remove competence. There’s aviation, chemical plants, forklifts, chaos engineering, tabletop exercises, and the kinda weird realization that if people never see danger, they might not recognize it when it shows up.

No clean answers or silver bullets. Just a messy, honest conversation about risk, skill, exposure, and the case for sometimes having a little less safety.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

My heart is yearning (yep, it’s a NOFX song) in anticipation.

Of what?

Well, that’s what the episode is, you jerk. Don’t ruin the surprise.

Coming on the heels of the tragic shooting in Sydney, Australia, the boys couldn’t help but notice the commentary about how someone, somewhere, should have anticipated it.

What does that have to do with Punk Rock Safety?

Well, anticipation is one of what Erik Hollnagel calls the four potentials of resilient systems. Sounds great, but what - and how - are we supposed to anticipate? It doesn’t seem possible to predict every possible failure or event, right? But what about conditions in the system?

Instead of trying to 'Magic 8 Ball' everything, Ron, Dave, and Ben suggest that what organizations should anticipate is where systems, processes, or people may be stretched, stressed, or pushed to their limits. Like in the circle pit. Or pretty much any time you’re forced to listen to the Misfits for very long. Or ska.

Basically, we should focus on anticipating where there is less capacity to adapt and maneuver. Recognizing these vulnerable spots, organizations can then build their capacity to adapt, respond, and recover, even if it isn’t a specific scenario.

So, expecting a single, complex convergence into an unpredictable event is tough. Planning for degraded conditions in parts of the system without a lot of backup? That’s the kind of anticipation that counts (somebody let the sound guys at Punk in the Park know, would ya?).

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

After the usual BS of “Did anyone invite a guest?” and “Let’s text random people while we're recording,” the boys get down to business: a whole lot of safety plans are the same recycled Word doc with a new company logo slapped on. Sounds almost the same as every ska song does. Turns out, not a lot of people spend time creating real, specific plans, so they just do a “File, Save As” on their way to compliance.

By the way, it's still a NOFX song for the episode title. Just saying.

Contractor management? Copy-paste, MFers. Workers think half these plans are useless, and even the managers know they’re just hoops to jump through. But don’t worry, checklists and forms will sort it out, because nothing says safety like paperwork!

Leadership? Yeah, leaders are supposed to show up and make all this “personal,” except half the time it's just performative nonsense. They debate whether “best practices” exist, eventually agreeing that the best practice is probably making sure people know what the hell a safety plan is even for.

The reason every unique, special snowflake job site's plans look exactly like the next is because, deep down, they're lazy (says Dave), too overwhelmed, or just too unbothered to actually change anything about work.  

Brian Hughes from Sologic was cool enough to answer a last-minute call and hop onto the pod, and because he's a bassist, he's nicer than most people. He takes a better view of how something like a template can actually help, not hurt, especially when people are overwhelmed by other stuff. Like meat at the Brazilian steakhouse where Brian is housing steaks off a meat sword. He looks at a template or copy-paste as a life preserver, but he draws the line at stopping there.

And then Brian has to go get dessert.

So, maybe it's okay to have a little bit of help, but a wash, rinse, repeat of stuff that sounds the same but doesn't work isn't good. Cool. Now what? Questions, not "insert company name." As a starter kit, you can still get a jump start without just putting 27 people on stage with horns and calling it good. Check it out for all the answers.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This episode dives into the reality of safety management systems; how they often feel disconnected, bloated, and stuck in the past. You know. Like a dinosaur.

Maybe worse than being a dinosaur is being a dinosaur just for the sake of having something to show off, even when it's just to call something a "system" or to have something to point at.

The boys chase down the idea that safety activities like inductions, audits, and incident investigations rarely talk to each other, leading to a lack of real coordination and feedback loops. They explore how organizations sometimes pile on useless tasks and “bullshit” safety activities, missing the mark on what actually matters.  

Probably the best part - if there is one - of the conversation touches on the importance of knowledge management, the role of AI in surfacing hidden insights, and the need for systems to be dynamic, not just static documents. There’s also a healthy dose of skepticism about the value of safety professionals and a call to focus on what truly keeps people safe, rather than chasing every minor incident.  

In a weird twist (not as weird as Dave's pods from Episode 43), the episode wraps up with some mushroom coffee stories, and a reminder that sometimes, the best safety move is knowing when to let go of the small stuff.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This episode is what happens when the boys hit record while hanging out with Todd Conklin and then decide, “Good enough, let’s roll with it.” The Toddfather has definitely been seen rocking Birks, so he gets his very own NOFX song reference.

It starts where all serious safety conversations should start: punk records, new tattoos, banjo heckling, and arguing about what “tier” everyone is in. Then Todd shows up and immediately ruins the fun by asking a question that actually matters: "Why does safety keep talking about innovation while mostly just polishing the same old stuff and calling it progress?"

From there, things go sideways mostly in a good way. The boys talk about how new ideas don’t die because people hate them; they mostly die because nobody keeps pushing them. How safety has gotten weirdly obsessed with full-tilt scientific legitimacy, certainty, and defending itself instead of, you know, making work better. How LinkedIn is not helping. At all. And how most “innovation” in safety is just the same tools with new names and a shitty logo.

Todd does what Todd does: calmly points out uncomfortable truths. He's like those old Jello Biafra interviews from the '80s and '90s, just splitting people's minds open. Like the fact that the most interesting innovation isn’t coming from safety conferences; it’s coming from places like pediatric hospitals, high-risk teams that never think they’re good enough, and organizations that actually design around how work happens instead of how they wish it happened. Also, nostalgia is not a strategy, and compliance is not a personality.

Somewhere in the middle, they realize (again) that safety isn’t the goal, positive change to how we work is. Safety is just what falls out when work is designed, supported, and adapted well. That realization is immediately followed by more sarcasm, some light despair about the future of leadership, and at least one rant about why “waiting for the next big thinker” is probably a losing move.

Does this episode solve anything? Absolutely not, even though the fellas definitely claim to. But, like punk rock, it's a reminder of why this stuff still matters, especially when it feels like the field is stuck in neutral.

Also: still no new tattoos. Which honestly feels like the biggest failure of the episode.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's big episode 50 over here at Punk Rock Safety, and the boys have made it exactly 49 episodes further than anyone would have thought.

By now, you've probably caught on to the whole NOFX theme. It's not a song title for the episode, but it's a reference to Fat Mike, so that counts.

Except this time, we've got Skinny Mike. Mike Rayo from THE Ohio State University's Cognitive Systems Engineering Lab joins the boys. By the way, that's Doctor Ron Gantt's Alma Mater in case you were keeping track.

This fiftieth episode leans pretty hard into chaos and systems thinking. Ben is doing some sunset broadcasting from a dog park at a South Carolina truck stop. If you listen close, you can hear Jake brakes highlighting the smart things Mike says.

The boys also wander into a discussion about AI’s awkward fit inside socio-technical systems, the gap in designing for joint cognitive activity, and why adaptive capacity remains the neglected pillar in safety investments. There's something for everyone, and Ron gets his joint cognitive activity, so that's a bonus.

Professor Mike Rayo drops an integrated frame for “modern safety” (or “balanced safety”) and tackles the stupid “safety label wars” that have come up more than a few times. It's a little like deciding what counts as "punk," though, so don't expect that to be completely solved (except if you're the one telling everyone they aren't punk enough, you're probably the asshole).

The coolest part of the episode is probably the whole discussion on adaptive capacity moving from a footnote in most safety discussions to the thing that actually makes it happen.  

Want to hear how the guys solve it? Check it out, punks. Even though Mike doesn't have any tattoos, mostly has instruments just lying around, and isn't really that into punk, he's real one - and he's a kick ass example of how Henry Rollins defines punk: "Questioning anything and everything.”

Get after it.

DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.

https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/

Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com