Explore every episode of the podcast PRODUCTEA with Leah, Growth & Senior Leadership
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Title
Pub. Date
Duration
73: Austin Hay - BS Marketing, Dogfooding and the future of CRMs
03 Sep 2024
01:03:09
Cringe Marketing, Dogfooding, and the limitations of Hubspot and Salesforce with Austin Hay, the Co-Founder of Clarify (CRM).
I talked with Austin on the rise of superficial marketing tactics and what they do to the importance of building a strong brand.
We discuss why Product Managers cannot ignore Marketing anymore and the value of good dogfooding in product development when everyone tells you to “listen to your customer”.
How to transition from being your own ideal customer to targeting a different market segment.
Takeaways
Marketing is moving from a deterministic approach to a more probabilistic approach, where marketers have less control and understanding of who and how to reach people.
The rise of superficial and cringe-worthy marketing tactics on platforms like LinkedIn is a result of increased competition and the need to stand out.
Traditional CRMs have limitations in terms of speed, data entry, and automation.
Sound Bites
"Marketing is moving back to the ways things were done in the 1960s to the 1990s, where you're not going to have as much control and understanding about who and how to reach people."
"We're just shifting market shares around without deriving value to the customer."
"You can be a really good dog fooder of your product, but you may not be the ideal ICP for your product in the future."
"The core product is never done. Whenever you add something else, it becomes a little bit worse, and then you need to repatch it up."
Chapters
08:12 The Rise of Superficial and Cringe-Worthy Marketing Tactics
13:55 The Importance of Building a Strong Brand
23:40 The Role of Marketing in Product Development
29:03 The Value of Dogfooding in Product Development
31:25 The Value and Challenges of Dogfooding
38:12 The Never-Ending Process of Product Development
39:07 Balancing Customer Feedback and Vision
53:46 The Limitations of Traditional CRMs
01:00:15 Introducing Clarify: Disrupting the CRM Market
72: Rand Fishkin - Why paid advertising sucks in 2024
25 Aug 2024
00:47:17
If you spend money on paid ads, chances are that you’re being taken advantage of. The biggest providers do it to you because they can and they optimize their systems more and more towards it.
Rand Fishkin and me discuss the challenges and limitations of paid advertising, the role of AI in marketing, the importance of organic initiatives and why you can’t skip good quality audience research.
Takeaways
Many marketers spend money on ads that are shown to people who would have converted anyway.
The best marketing channels are often the hardest to measure. Paid advertising can be limited and may not always provide the desired results because you don’t see how they really perform.
Sound Bites
"There's lots of people being taken advantage of in the digital marketing and advertising ecosystem today."
"There are literally hundreds of billions of dollars that flow into that ecosystem that don't necessarily have careful accounting."
"We're going to need to do these sketchy things that essentially take credit for sales that would have already happened, show people more ad results, reduce the quality of the organic results, make it harder to identify ads, force people to scroll down further, lazy load the organic stuff and quick load the paid stuff."
"Treat digital advertising the way Coca-Cola treated billboards in 1965. Test different messages and campaigns in specific markets and analyze the lift in same-store sales to determine effectiveness."
Chapters
06:30 The Issues with Digital Advertising
10:22 Taking Advantage of the Digital Marketing Ecosystem
13:14 The Challenge of Proper Accounting and Attribution
18:29 The Misleading Nature of Digital Metrics
23:03 The Difficulty of Measuring the Best Marketing Channels
23:59 The Limitations of Paid Advertising and the Need for Innovation
25:27 The Impact of AI on Marketing and the Changing Web
28:10 The Value of Organic Initiatives in Marketing
29:31 Testing and Experimentation in Marketing
34:13 The Importance of Working with Competent Experts
41:26 The Significance of Qualitative Metrics in Marketing
63: Kyle Pursell - Paths into Growth with the Head of Growth Optimization at Shopify
22 Jun 2024
01:10:31
Summary
Kyle Pursell, the Head of Growth Optimization at Shopify, talks about impactful business strategies for growth.
What is the challenge of moving upmarket, and the role of product-led growth in driving this success. And why cross-functional collaboration in growth initiatives is often undervalued.
We also talk about the different paths to getting into growth roles and share their favorite podcasts and books.
Takeaways
Building alignment and getting feedback before important meetings is never optional.
Cross-functional collaboration is essential for effective growth initiatives
Focus on maximizing user engagement in the first session to drive activation
Implement strategies to retain customers who are canceling, such as offering compromises
Consider different paths to getting into growth roles, such as starting in customer service or marketing
Sound Bites
"Growth is not an overcomplicated craft. It's just identifying levers, using data to make decisions, experiment."
"The aim of important meetings like that are just like a rubber stamp. Everyone is aligned."
"Do not go into a meeting that is important to you without knowing how it ends."
"Drive people as far down the funnel as possible in that first session as early as possible."
Chapters
07:01 Understanding GMV and Leveraging Metrics
14:28 The Power of Product-Led Growth
28:19 Optimizing Site Speed for Engagement and Conversion
32:10 The Importance of Cross-Functional Collaboration
35:30 The Importance of Stakeholder Alignment in Meetings
38:22 Maximizing User Engagement in the First Session
39:20 Strategies for Retaining Customers Who Are Canceling
51:34 Different Paths to Getting into Growth Roles
01:03:49 Unwinding with Podcasts and Books Outside of Your Field
62: Kieran Flanagan: The state of AI in 2024 in Tech
16 Jun 2024
01:01:46
Summary
In the second conversation with Kieran Flanagan, SVP Marketing at Hubspot we talk about how we see AI really being used in tech and not just being a flashy thing you use once. From Sales, to Marketing to Product. Where are we today and where is all of this going?
The conversation explores the role of AI in strategy, the potential for AI-driven social networks, the impact of AI on user interfaces and customer service, the importance of data in AI tools, and the need for iterative refinement when using AI.
Takeaways
AI can assist in strategy, but it requires human knowledge and the ability to ask for specific output.
AI can improve user interfaces and customer service, but there is a risk of increased isolation and loneliness.
Marketers and business leaders need to have a deep understanding of their own business before leveraging AI.
Challenges and limitations of AI include the need for large datasets and the resistance to adopting new software in sales.
Sound Bites
"It’s not that AI cannot do strategy. You can't do strategy. You don't actually know how to talk to the AI and give it instructions in a way that would actually be helpful towards building a strategy."
"AI can do a better job than nothing for people who are missing companionship, for people who feel like they are isolated, for people who just crave someone to be there at all times and talk to."
"You give AI context, you teach it what good looks like before you use it productively."
Chapters
03:04 The Potential for AI-Driven Social Networks
05:59 AI and the Evolution of User Interfaces and Customer Service
08:52 The Importance of Data in AI Tools
14:17 The Limitations of AI in Understanding Context and Reasoning
31:12 Optimizing Workflows and Efficiency with AI
34:28 Enhancing Lead Generation and Conversion with AI
38:41 Improving the Customer Onboarding Experience with AI
44:26 Challenges and Limitations of AI in Sales
50:38 Using AI to Solve Real Problems and Create Value
61: Dennis R. Mortensen - How to win with building for productivity
09 Jun 2024
00:51:16
Dennis R. Mortensen is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of LaunchBrightly, which makes money by automating the most annoying things in our work lives (through AI).
We talk about why it’s important to own your own data set for competitive advantage and the misconception that successful entrepreneurs should become investors. Dennis refuses to do anything else other than focussing on his startups. No boards, no investing, just focus.
We conclude with a discussion on the future of user interfaces and the potential for voice-first products.
Takeaways
Owning your own data set is the only way to stay in business
Successful entrepreneurs are not obligated to become investors; they can continue to jump into the next startup
Genuinely hating a problem is the number one reason for motivation and success in solving it.
The future of user interfaces is uncertain, but voice-first products and more intelligent assistants are expected.
Sound Bites
"There is this belief, which I hate, that once you've had a little bit of success, say you make a startup, you get to the end, you make a few monies, you kind of won in that particular game, then you're supposed to become an investor, angel investor, something in between."
"I invite a bunch of folks to come and convince me to not do it."
"If we do more of this, everybody's happy."
Chapters
00:00 Owning Your Own Data Set for Competitive Advantage
03:03 Misconception of Successful Entrepreneurs as Investors
09:46 Automating the Process of Creating Product Screenshots
60: Andrew Ettinger - Community-led growth in enterprise sales
02 Jun 2024
00:53:01
Summary
I talked with the amazing Andrew Ettinger from Appen about community-led growth in enterprise sales, the importance of cross-functional understanding, and the transformation of content and community in the sales process.
We are also diving into the impact of AI on the industry and the need for cross-functional understanding and collaboration.
Takeaways
Cross-functional understanding and collaboration between CROs, CPOs, and other leaders is crucial for successful sales strategies.
The evolving role of lead scoring and product usage in sales
The changing nature of sales and product management in the era of AI and automation
Sound Bites
"Fundamentally, it doesn't matter what you sell. The way in which you need to generate demand is by building out content and value added interactions with the personas that your product or service can enable them to have a 10X better life."
"If you provide enough high value and relevant content, what you're actually going to find is your form fills get much more detailed about the project."
"We actually want to talk to all of these people because we learn and we wind up actually doing some projects, even at cost."
Chapters
00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Closing Deals in Modern Sales
05:23 The Role of Community-Led Growth in Enterprise Sales
08:12 Cross-Functional Understanding and Collaboration in Sales Strategies
16:30 Understanding Product-Market Fit in Modern Sales
26:29 The Impact of Data on Sales and Lead Generation
29:43 Evolving Role of Lead Scoring and Product Usage in Sales
31:33 Challenges and Opportunities of Inbound Leads and PLG
32:58 The Importance of Firmographics and Product Usage in Separating Leads
34:21 The Changing Nature of Sales and Product Management in the Era of AI and Automation
42:31 The Need for Cross-Functional Understanding and Collaboration in the Industry
59: Dani Grant - In-person Community building in a PLG product at Jam.Dev
26 May 2024
00:47:26
Summary
Jam.dev created a tool called Jam that helps product managers and engineers communicate and debug bugs more effectively. The company has grown to over 100,000 users and has fixed more than 2 million bugs.
They have adopted a unique approach to marketing, prioritizing community building and sharing their journey as builders. The company uses an R&D framework to evaluate and measure the success of their marketing initiatives.
I’m talking with Dany Grant about why it’s not just optional to be close to users in a product-led growth startup and why in-person interactions might matter more than you think.
Takeaways
Jam.dev prioritizes community building and sharing their journey as builders to connect with their target audience.
They use an R&D framework to evaluate and measure the success of their marketing efforts.
Sound Bites
"When you're a PLG company, the thing that's existential is are you giving value to your users."
"We sometimes have this really weird thing with PLG companies that we just do not know who we're talking to because we do not foster this kind of real-life connection."
"Even if we do not generate leads and money from the actual events, you kind of still do because you get information about who it is that is buying your stuff."
Chapters
03:51 Innovative Bug Reporting and Communication
08:13 Marketing Strategies: In-Person Events and Social Media
23:58 Being Close to Users in a PLG Startup
26:30 Understanding User Connections in PLG
27:54 Gaining Insights from Events and User Interactions
31:12 Struggles with Identifying the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)
33:30 Onboarding Larger Companies through Smaller Teams
38:13 The Journey of Building a Startup and Team Growth
58: Andy Johns - Stop. Burnout within High Performers
19 May 2024
01:03:54
Summary
Burnout and the pursuit of external validation in tech.
The pressure to constantly achieve and the belief that success will bring happiness and fulfillment is driving some of us into ruin. It almost did with Andy Johns, he was never more successful and unhappier in his life until he his body hit the reset switch.
Top companies, top jobs, top titles. Achieve, achieve, achieve. And yet it’s never enough… A lot of us are chasing external validation so we don’t have to deal with and accept ourselves.
Takeaways
The tech industry, with its emphasis on high performance and success, often perpetuates the cycle of burnout.
Removing the masks we wear and being vulnerable with others is important for personal growth.
Letting out suppressed emotions and desires is a crucial step towards healing and finding our true selves.
Sound Bites
"The human superpower is the ability to imagine things that aren't real."
"Not everyone who's succeeding, at least on paper, is doing as well on the inside as they are on the outside."
"I was seeking something external to myself that would make me feel lovable, whole, and complete."
Chapters
03:42 The Pressure to Achieve and the Illusion of Happiness
09:56 The Importance of Self-Love and Addressing Traumas
57: Erik Allebest - From 0 to 150 million ARR - The Chess.com story
12 May 2024
01:12:33
Summary
Chess.com has grown from being a simple chess service to a thriving 150 million ARR business. The company has focused on making chess accessible to everyone through services around a product that hasn’t changed in centuries.
We touch on the challenges of scaling a company and the role of titles and leadership in an organization and how many times Erik wanted to give up in the process.
Erik talks about the need for passion and love for the product, and the importance of hiring people who align with the company's mission.
Takeaways
Chess.com has expanded its user base beyond the chess community by making chess accessible to everyone instead of just pros.
Titles should not be the focus, and it's more important to hire people who are passionate and aligned with the company's mission more than anything else
Finding a balance between managing the company and staying involved in the product is key for being a CEO at a scale of 500 people and more.
Sound Bites
"Anyone can have a relationship with chess. It doesn't have to be old white guys in suits. It can be all genders, all ages, all races, all countries, all intellectual capacities. Chess is for everyone."
"Chess.com could not only serve the community, but we could grow the game and change the definition of who identifies as a chess player."
"Our next phase as a company is to be an engagement-focused business and drive revenue to invest in building the game and driving cooler media."
"Making money is just the fuel for the mission"
Chapters
15:39 Expanding the Chess Community
30:08 The Role of Growth Teams in Retention and Value Creation
37:03 Understanding User Cohorts and Behavior Tracking
39:21 Driving Revenue Growth Through Churn Analysis
41:29 The Role of Revenue in the Company's Mission
45:02 Using Metrics to Drive Product Improvement
54:04 The Challenges of CEO Responsibilities
01:02:32 Separating Leadership and Management Roles
My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar
56: Jason Fried - Motivation, forming habits and calendars
05 May 2024
00:59:47
Motivation, forming habits, managing time, and why it’s important to know how much you enjoy solving problems with Jason Fried.
Jason is really special to me and a 2nd time guest. Whenever we go at it, there are two worlds clashing in the best way possible. We are both never content with traditions and challenge the status quo; we just often disagree on how to challenge them while we agree on the first principles behind it all.
Our fight about calendars and time management is one of my favorite moments in the entire history of my podcast.
Takeaways
Real-world experience is the best way to learn and develop skills.
Consistency and finding what works for you individually are key to forming habits.
Calendars can be a useful tool for managing time, but it is important to protect one's time and not let others have too much control over it.
New employees at 37 Signals gain knowledge about the market and customers over time rather than being overwhelmed with information upfront.
Metrics should be used in conjunction with observation and intuition to make informed decisions.
Sound Bites "The best way to learn is to do the work."
"If I'm putting something off for a long time, it's probably because I'm not motivated to get it done."
"The people you hire are pretty much your most important decisions you're going to make in any business ever essentially."
"At the one year point, we have to basically hire you again. This is how we think about it internally."
Chapters 02:02 Understanding and Harnessing Motivation 04:18 The Importance of Making the Right Hiring Decisions 06:16 Forming Habits: Consistency and Finding What Works 16:31 Managing Time: The Role of Calendars and Protecting Your Time 35:15 The Right Size for a Company vs Scaling 55:09 Measuring Subjective Factors in Product Development 58:53 Using Metrics and Intuition to Make Informed Decisions
55: Mike Weir - Churn & Sales compensation to fight churn
27 Apr 2024
01:01:27
Summary
The conversation with Mike Weir, former CRO of G2, focused on reducing churn and driving expansion revenue.
At G2, they used a churn model with 14 highly correlated variables to identify at-risk customers and prioritize actions for the customer success team. We also discussed the importance of product and marketing in customer education and engagement and how to align sales, customer success, product, and marketing in a product-led growth (PLG) organization.
The discussion also touches on the role of compensation plans in driving the right behaviors and the importance of measuring and rewarding actions that correlate to long-term revenue and whether founders should do sales and for how long.
Takeaways A churn model with highly correlated variables can help identify at-risk customers and prioritize actions for the customer success team.
Compensation plans should reward behaviors that correlate to long-term revenue, even if they don't directly generate revenue.
Product teams play a vital role in supporting sales efforts and providing valuable data.
Founders should stay involved in sales for as long as possible to refine their understanding of the market and product-market fit.
Sound Bites
"You got a customer that's kind of like half in the boat, half in the water."
"Expansion is the best way to fight against churn."
"If they're already trusting G2, then why not use that G2 third party validated content in that direct conversation when you get them engaging with your marketing materials or in a direct meeting with you."
Chapters 00:00 Profile Completeness and Engagement 11:08 Using a Churn Model 30:41 Aligning Sales, Customer Success, Product, and Marketing 39:36 Measuring Handraisers and Sales Calls 48:15 The Role of Founders in Sales 57:24 Incentivizing Actions that Drive Long-Term Revenue
My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar
54: Anthony Pierri - Positioning your B2B Startup through your Homepage
14 Apr 2024
00:58:43
Anthony Pierry, partner at FletchPMM, focuses on messaging for early-stage B2B SaaS startups, and he brought a lot of actionable knowledge on how to do it right to the ProducTea.
Summary I talk with Anthony about how to focus and narrow down your target audience and how to communicate it through your value proposition. How do we cross the chasm between the early-stage value proposition and the bigger market we want to reach?
How do we use qualitative feedback in these high-risk and low-data decisions to figure out whether we should focus on features vs. outcomes when we talk to our customers?
Takeaways Founders should narrow down their target audience and focus on specific use cases to effectively communicate their value proposition.
Copying the messaging of larger companies may not be effective for startups, as they have different levels of risk and value propositions.
Startups have an advantage as flexible specialists, offering solutions that larger enterprises cannot provide.
Qualitative feedback and testing are essential to ensure that the messaging resonates with customers.
A balanced approach is needed in B2B marketing between both features and outcomes.
Sound Bites "The hypothesis can't be, we serve all industries for every use case. That's just not going to cut it as an early stage company."
"Be temporarily narrow. Just go for the next three to four months, but have your tracking in place, please. Narrow down for three months, see what happens."
Chapters
06:16 Finding the Right Messaging and Positioning 12:20 Having an Iterative Process of Finding, Messaging and Positioning 28:21 Reducing Risk through Product-Led Growth (PLG) in Positioning Experiments 34:54 How to optimize your Positioning in detail, features vs outcomes
Anthony’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonypierri/ My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar
71: John Cutler - How to structure a product organization
18 Aug 2024
01:18:08
John Cutler on the challenges of scaling and operating a collaborative product organization.
We discuss different mental models for how different functions work together as teams and why it’s important to clarify and document the operating model, especially during times of growth, turnover, or changing strategies.
John talks about the concept of scaffolding is introduced as a way to navigate the process of change and improvement and why most crossfunctional initiatives fail.
Takeaways
Define in an operating model team sizes, roles, and responsibilities
Reduce single points of failure and promote shared accountability
Establish a shared language around team and domain evolution
Stay firm on the chosen operating model and evaluate it within a specific timeframe
Sound Bites
"We invest in teams, products, and outcomes, not individual projects and deliverables."
"What are the valid reasons to ask for money and what kind of rigor are you going to put for them for their team?"
"Teams respond well if there are a small number of things that people are stubborn about."
Chapters
06:45 The Need for an Operating Model in a Growing Company
08:04 Running a Collaborative Product Organization
14:32 The Challenges of the CPO and CTO Tandem
19:26 The Importance of Clarifying and Documenting the Operating Model
29:00 Scaffolding and Navigating Change
38:23 Team Size and Misalignment in SaaS Teams
39:18 Investing in Teams, Products, and Outcomes
41:27 Valid Reasons to Ask for Money and Team Rigor
45:03 The Importance of Being Stubborn
46:46 The Power of Enable Constraints
51:54 Defining Team Sizes and Roles
01:05:30 The Role of Engineering Managers in Teams
53: Adam Robinson - The power of LinkedIn for B2B from zero to one
07 Apr 2024
00:48:56
Adam Robinson, CEO of Retention.com & RB2B, is the CEO who builds in public on LinkedIn and is crushing it by discovering the power of product-led growth as he is doing it. He’s very specific about what works and what doesn’t and how he got started.
He explains the power of organic reach through LinkedIn and building a personal brand through social media, particularly LinkedIn, and how important it is to not be too rigid in your assumptions. Adam shares his experience with video content and its impact on building trust and affinity with his audience to sell and scale an impressive B2B product-led flywheel.
We talk about the concept of freemium product-led growth (PLG), the value of free users, and why it’s worth it to keep them around, even if they never buy.
Takeaways
Building a personal brand through organic reach on social media platforms like LinkedIn can create trust and affinity with the audience, especially in B2B.
Video content allows for a richer and more dynamic connection with the audience, enhancing the impact of your brand.
Retaining free users is valuable for organic distribution and building domain authority.
The combination of AI and influencer-type founders can enable bootstrapped startups to scale and compete with larger companies. We are just at the beginning.
Point solution products with a massive free offer and a focus on viral expansion can disrupt traditional SaaS models.
Sound Bites
"I want to challenge myself to just keep adding value to the paid plan until we get decent conversion rates instead of taking value away from the free one."
"I think video builds an affinity for you in a way that nothing else can because people are sitting there, they're observing your mannerisms and the way that you say things and like the sound of your voice and everything."
"No user is a free user. You get something from everyone."
Chapters
02:16 The Impact of Video Content on Building Trust and Affinity
08:45 Understanding Customer Churn and Market Dynamics
23:38 The Value of Offering a Free Product to Build Brand Presence
24:07 Freemium PLG and the Actual Value of Free Users
25:37 What can and should you “automate” about personal connections?
33:00 The Importance of Retaining Free Users
35:26 The Future of AI and Bootstrapping, hyper-efficiency
52: Casey Hill - Organic Demand with Email, Newsletters and Podcasts
31 Mar 2024
00:47:54
Casey Hill is a Senior Growth Manager at ActiveCampaign, Institutional Consultant, and Founder. More importantly, he’s incredibly actionable and smart on LinkedIn around B2B Email channels, and that’s why I wanted to have him on the podcast.
Summary
We talk about how to approach Email, how to use it from the ground up to drive meaningful business and how to measure it. How to balance different channels, such as influencers, podcasts, and newsletters.
What IS good content and should you repurpose it? What is the difference between a Short-term and long-term goal, when to drop money into Ads vs. the quality of the content?
We talk about engagement metrics and validation points, how to encourage an open structure for content posting, tracking engagement metrics and pipeline opportunities, the long-term play and how to trust in a B2B content strategy, separating reporting for different content types, gathering information and filtering leads, and choosing the most valuable question to ask.
Takeaways
Email marketing is still a valuable channel for demand generation despite the flood of automation and AI, but it requires targeted goals and effective use.
Create good content that is valuable to a specific audience and consider repurposing content to maximize impact.
Set short-term and long-term goals for growth, and use benchmarks to guide your strategies.
Gating content in newsletters should be done sparingly, as building trust and showcasing content upfront are more important than gathering low-intent emails.
Separate reporting for different content types to accurately evaluate performance.
Chapters
04:22 The Importance of Email in Demand Generation
10:56 Creating Good Content for a Specific Audience
13:38 Repurposing Content and Optimizing Channels
16:29 Short-Term and Long-Term Goals for Growth
21:46 Setting Targets and Benchmarks for Growth
24:06 Importance of Quality and Amplification in Newsletters
26:27 Gating Content in Newsletters
29:10 Differentiating Friction Based on Buying Intent
30:38 The Five Degrees of Content
35:18 Engagement Metrics and Validation Points
39:33 Tracking Engagement Metrics and Pipeline Opportunities
40:28 Long-Term Play and Trust in B2B Content Strategy
41:26 Separating Reporting for Different Content Types
Julie Zhuo, Co-Founder @ Sundial, Author of THE MAKING OF A MANAGER, ex-VP Design @ FB
Summary Intuition and hiring is an uncomfortable topic. We should be rational, have reasons for why we choose to work with someone or not. When should we trust our gut feeling? When is it time to step back and say, no. I go with the hard facts?
In the end it’s all about building an honest relationship as a leader with our peers and what kind of person you want to be. Afterall, we spend a huge time with our peers, even if work is not our main focus in life.
We explore the journey of personal growth and learning, the challenges and strengths of introversion and extroversion, and the significance of choosing battles and seeking feedback.
How can we understand ourselfes better and become the inspiring leaders that we wish we had in our life when we were younger?
Takeaways
Intuition and logic are both valuable in decision-making, and it is important to know when to choose which one.
We don’t have to be leaders by embracing the bad stereotypes from the past.
Clear communication and honesty are essential in building strong relationships.
Taking risks and embracing vulnerability will lead to personal growth and learning.
Chapters
05:01 The Power of Clear Communication
07:13 Balancing Simplicity and Complexity in Writing
08:12 The Importance of Honesty in Relationships
14:25 The Wisdom of Intuition and Logic
23:00 Building Honest and Deep Relationships with your peers
26:17 Personal Growth and Learning
29:32 Navigating Introversion and Extroversion
32:59 Overcoming Fear and Embracing Authenticity
38:05 Inspiring Others and Building Meaningful Relationships
Jamie Gier, - CMO at DexCare and former Director of Product Marketing at Microsoft - and I talk about the importance of understanding the customer and the challenges of marketing in regulated industries. We also touch on the process of learning marketing, the concept of account-based marketing in B2B, and how to connect it to revenue through ROI cases for our customers. The conversation concludes with a focus on relevant outreach and communication concepts with the aid of AI.
Takeaways
Good Marketing plays a strategic role in product development, informing product strategy and ensuring a unified voice in the marketplace.
Marketing in regulated industries, such as healthcare, requires balancing compliance with innovation and user experience.
Learning marketing involves understanding the customer, creating value, and staying up to date with industry trends.
Account-based marketing in B2B involves aligning with sales, understanding ideal client profiles, and deploying the right sales and marketing motions. Effective processes and personalization are crucial in marketing and sales.
Making the ROI case for customers from Marketing is essential.
Chapters
06:42 The Importance of Personal Board of Directors 12:18 Measuring Marketing Impact 16:29 The Role of Marketing in Product Development 22:02 The Challenges of Marketing in Regulated Industries 38:14 Learning Marketing and Creating Value 45:38 Account-Based Marketing in B2B 47:30 Effective Processes and Personalization that doesn't feel artificial 49:17 Making the ROI Case through Account-based Marketing
My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar
49: Peter Walker - Startup funding in 2024, the year of layoffs or recovery?
04 Feb 2024
00:51:30
Summary
Peter Walker, Head of Data Insights at Carta discusses with me various aspects of startup funding and investment. We explore the value of small angel investments, the obscurity of startup funding letters, the selectivity of startup advisors, and the potential of angel investments as marketing assets. We also touch on the excitement for the future of startups, the impact of accelerators and venture studios, and the importance of distribution and growth and whether a downround really is such a bad thing.
Takeaways
There is a growing trend of companies exploring non-VC growth paths and aiming to achieve venture-scale outcomes without raising additional funding.
The use of startup funding letters, such as Series A and Series B, can obscure the wide variation in funding amounts and create unnecessary pressure for founders.
Angel investments can serve as marketing assets for startups, as investors with a strong brand can enhance a company's image.
The current generation of startups is building on a higher foundation of knowledge and asking different questions compared to previous years.
Chapters
13:35 The Shift Towards Non-VC Growth Paths
25:24 The Impact of Liquidation Preferences and Equity Education
43:52 The Value of Small Angel Investments
44:50 The Obscurity of Startup Funding Letters
46:14 Angel Investments as Marketing Assets
48:02 Excitement for the Future of Startups, Accelerators and Venture Studios
48: Eytan Bensoussan - How to get critical things done
07 Jan 2024
01:02:06
Why is ruthless focus the most important skill in B2B, and why is it so hard to get right?
As the CEO of a banking service that focuses on the impact of cashflow mismanagement on small businesses, he knows what it means when people only focus on what’s fun to them in a business and the price they pay for that.
We talked about the decision to seek VC funding and how he built resilience and dealt with negative emotions in tough times. What it means to him to deliver more value than just being a banking app by building out new channels like a podcast.
Takeaways
Ruthless prioritization is crucial for productivity and success.
Cashflow mismanagement is a major problem for small businesses.
Recognize that negative emotions often feel worse and last longer than they are.
Creating valuable content and delivering practical knowledge can help businesses establish trust and attract customers.
Focus on quality rather than quantity in marketing to ensure relevance and engagement.
Timestamps
03:18 The Problem of Cashflow Illiteracy in Small Businesses 07:58 The Habit of Writing Down Priorities and ruthless prioritization 15:03 Mismanagement of unfun tasks in Small Businesses 19:37 The Challenges of Financial Management in Early Stages 23:08 The Decision to Seek VC Funding 32:34 The Importance of Effort and Determination 38:01 The Problem of Comparing Self to Others 42:09 Balancing Stressful Situations 46:27 Managing Negative Emotions 48:58 Starting a Podcast and delivering extended value to customers 56:36 Quality over Quantity in Marketing
47: Jeff Gothelf - OKRs, Humility, and the Real Value of Innovation in Business
26 Dec 2023
00:46:49
Jeff Gothelf, one of the most critical voices around OKRs and being outcome-driven, sat down with me for an hour-long amazing conversation: We touch on why using OKRS is useless if you can’t admit when you are wrong and be open to feedback from your teams.
How do you set outcome-driven goals for exploratory research and the role of humility in organizational success? Why shipping something does not mean you’re adding value. Finally, we discuss common failure points in organizations and the future of impactful startups.
Takeaways
Executives should practice humility and accountability, admitting when they are wrong proactively.
Setting outcome-driven goals for exploratory research helps determine the value and feasibility of new ideas.
Common failure points in organizations include a lack of humility, a failure to prioritize the customer, and an overemphasis on the next hottest thing.
Timestamps
00:00 The Power of Humility and Accountability
13:06 The Importance of Putting the Customer First
19:08 Avoiding the Overuse of AI
25:46 Setting Outcome-Driven Goals for Exploratory Research
32:31 The Role of Humility in Organizational Success
46: Melissa Kwan - Bootstrap vs VC, Mastering the startup game
16 Dec 2023
01:01:36
Summary
Melissa Kwan, CEO of eWebinar and serial bootstrapper, discusses the challenges and benefits of bootstrapping a business versus seeking venture capital funding. She is the poster child for urging founders to focus on real customer feedback and paying customers without loading up on VC problems.
We discuss the importance of understanding the customer, personal goals and ambitions, the challenges of building and scaling a product, defining success and financial goals, the desire for financial independence, determining the financial number to sleep well, and the value of personal branding and trust.
Takeaways
Bootstrapping is a lifestyle choice that offers freedom and control over the direction of a business. At the same time, venture capital funding commits a company to a venture-scale outcome and a different lifestyle.
The future of tech startups lies in vertical SaaS businesses and smaller, niche solutions that cater to specific markets.
Why demo calls and salespeople are becoming less necessary as self-serve options and efficient onboarding processes become more prevalent.
Determining the financial number needed to sleep well varies for each individual.
Personal branding and trust are valuable assets for entrepreneurs.
Writing and building an audience can lead to new opportunities and connections.
Timestamps
00:00 The Lifestyle Choice of Bootstrapping vs. VC Funding
05:17 The Trajectory of eWebinar's Growth
09:31 The Challenges of VC Funding and the Importance of Profitability
13:51 The Difference Between Media Validation and Market Validation
19:35 The Rise of Vertical SaaS and Lifestyle Businesses
25:46 The Importance of Analyzing Past Behavior to Predict Future Behavior
32:00 The Problem with Demo Calls and the Shift Towards Self-Serve
37:06 Determining Pricing and the Value of Respecting Customer's Time
45:27 Understanding the Importance of Knowing the Customer
46:25 The Challenges of Building and Scaling a Product
47:24 Defining Success and Financial Goals
48:19 The Desire for Financial Independence
50:38 Determining the Financial Number to Sleep Well
45: Chris Tottman & Richard Blundell - focussing your business to success while dreaming big
10 Dec 2023
01:08:58
Chris Tottman and Richard Blundell joined me for a fantastic conversation about how they think from their own operators’ perspective when it comes to investing in successful businesses and their people.
Why you should not talk to investors who never went through the personal pain of failing and why it most of the time comes down to the basics of running a successful business:
Being obsessed with customers in a narrow market
Product Market Fit is not just having a great product in a great market but also communicating it where your customers are
Timestamps:
11:00 The origin story of Notion VC, a founder/operator-led fund. An aggregator of fuckups and occasional successes
17:10 Why do we keep making the same mistakes in business?
27:00 Why anyone invests in a business. Metrics to evaluate the present, personality to see the future
33:30 Why should anyone listen to your pitch? When chaos is not avoidable with success
45:20 Are you failing because your market is too big or too small? Dangers of going too broad with your ICPs
53:50 Markets are not just what people want but where they communicate and recommend
44: Casey Winters - Thinking about your career like a long term investor.
20 Nov 2023
01:08:07
A Journey I’m in the middle of as well: How to transition from senior leadership to taking care of yourself to the moment where you enter again.
Casey Winters, ex-CPO Eventbrite, walks through the entire journey and how he thinks about our current markets; our technology is drastically changing while the new distribution channels have not developed yet. Why he is waiting before making high-conviction bets for his career in 2023
Timestamps:
08:10 Why Casey is stressed out and scared of misalignment
13:40 When the company heads in a direction where you don’t see your strengths as a senior leader, but it’s your job to see them through
20:12 This company strategy looks like one I’m not part of. How open should I be with my CEO?
28:00 Burning bridges on your way out by overthinking about negotiation leverage
31:15 Shifting your day to suddenly taking care of your OKRs: physical health and fitness
38:15 What deserves the best hours of your day?
42:00 How to plan the inevitable return to work: Waiting for the right moment, how to think like an investor about your career.
48:10 You don’t have to “understand” everything. But you’ll know when you know enough: technology is changing now, and distribution will change later.
53:40 Paid advertising and, with it, SEO getting pressure because of the current technology shift. Do consumer platforms make money from advertising or subscriptions in the future? It will be WILD.
62:20 Short tenures: people want to understand the decisions you made in your career, not just how long they were.
My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar
70: Pedro Goés - Building for enterprise customers in an oversaturated market
11 Aug 2024
00:42:37
Summary
Pedro Góes, the founder and CEO of InEvent, discusses with me the challenges and strategies of selling to enterprise clients in the event tech industry.
Why in-person interactions and relationship-building can’t be beat by pure self-serve. The value of certifications and how they contribute to higher retention rates.
He shares insights on the event tech market, the role of AI in their product, and the differences between doing business in the US and Europe.
Takeaways
In-person interactions and relationship-building are important for establishing trust and are not just limited to sales.
Expanding in-person operations and support can be a key differentiator.
The challenges and regulations of doing business in Europe and the US differ.
Finding a niche and focusing on a specific market segment can lead to success in an oversaturated market.
Sound Bites
"We have been trying to focus on this type of clients because it's better retention."
"We have been building this for 12 years and it's not ready yet."
Chapters
04:43 The Value of Certifications
09:48 Challenges and Opportunities in Enterprise Sales
43: John Cutler - Everything wrong with everything in a business
12 Nov 2023
00:57:32
John Cutler is the best systems thinker I know. Whenever we talk, there’s a beautiful meta-analysis around systems happening. Why do we work the way we do? Why can we not figure out how to run businesses efficiently if we do it so often?
Why do inexperienced, brilliant people constantly get into trouble, and how do they get out of it?
Individual vs. team habits
How much of our decisions is gut vs. objectivity
Leadership porn and its connected biases
Timestamps: 6:50 How people throw words like “efficiency” and “productivity” around and do not understand them
13:25 Product operations is thinking about what can remain and what has to go in the future.
19:50 Growing pains vs. normal pains. Why do young, smart people constantly get into really bad situations with their businesses?
25:05 Experts will always tell you that things are simple. Why tips on LinkedIn don’t work but are still popular.
30:15 How to be consistent.
38:00 The unbeautiful side of establishing habits. Individual vs. team habits
50:20 Leadership “porn”, why you should not search for broken components in organizations. Going broad first before specific.
Jason Fried, Co-founder and CEO of 37signals (Basecamp with a valuation of 100 billion, no really ;D), is one of the most positive, successful, forward-looking people that I got to know. He doesn’t care about retros and dwelling on the past and constantly pulls forward without looking too much at what others might think.
This amazing episode ended up being a look into the mind of a successful contrarian who appreciates the beauty of simplicity in business.
* Don’t overcomplicate decisions in business
* Being confidently wrong about reality is easy when there is no reality to check it against
* We’re doing more and more of what we don’t necessarily need
Timestamps:
06:00 Having a public opinion on things that are not mainstream even if it’s uncomfortable.
09:00 Figuring out yourself, and who you really are is never done.
12:00 Don’t overcomplicate it, there are fewer wrong or right decisions than you think. Decide and run with it.
17:45 Double down on whatever works, don’t do post-mortems, retros…
20:55 Is developing faster and faster really what we need?
28:15 Culture and bad goal setting
36:33 Most decisions are based on intuition
46:25 Customers are always trying to make progress and that won’t change
40: Andrew Davies - Monetization, Pricing & Growth straight from the CMO at Paddle
24 Oct 2023
01:03:02
Andrew Davies, CMO at Paddle, on the latest learnings on monetization and pricing. A topic that is still underserved because almost no one has good, conclusive data about it. Paddle does, and Andrew is sharing a lot of actionable advice on:
- Willingness to pay - Changing monetization often - How to not incentivize anyone the wrong way
One of my favorite episodes to date!
Timestamps: 06:20 Insights from the latest pricing report, analyzing outliers that “make it”
09:00 Having access to one of the biggest data stacks about monetization and how Paddle structured itself as a PLG business step-by-step
12:45 How to figure out how much you should charge for your product?
19:45 How to figure out “willingness to pay”. Cuddling with Chaos
24:00 Between Acquisition, Retention, and Monetization… Few companies are getting pricing right. Those that change it often have an 82% better ARPU
30:40 How do you get sales on board to play along to be okay with changing monetization
36:00 “We make sure there is no incentive for anyone in the company to get a customer on the phone over self-serving, including sales”
40:55 Getting payment methods, currency, and regional acceptance right.
44:30 We are moving away from the “VC funded or dead” dream.
50:15 What does it feel like to be really “successful” and not to spiral “getting there”
54:00 Having no clue what you are doing is an opportunity, not a weakness to cover
58:45 Trends: Customers want everything faster and cheaper.
39: Brian Donohue - How to handle the untameable beast of AI products at Intercom
30 Sep 2023
00:57:17
This episode gave me a lot of peace of mind. Intercom is dealing with the exact same problems that we all have when building around and with AI.
Estimations are impossible and things that are feeling impossible are possible the day after. Brian sat together with me to talk about it all including Intercom’s coming-of-age story and how they look at customer service through this new distorting lense of AI and Machine learning that is rocking our boat.
It’s a great learning piece on anything product and leadership.
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Timestamps: 06:30 What makes Intercom so special, and why is good customer service so difficult? 11:50 Tieing business and technology together, while AI is making quantum leaps from unuseable to “this is really good” 18:19 We are all working in a playground of opportunities that is very hard to get under predictable control 25:30 I have no idea how long this entire project might take. Days or months. No idea 31:00 Unpredictability of your output in product, you only know when you have it 36:00 Outcome-driven goals when outcomes are impossible to define? 44:00 How to build an innovative product inside a large organization by creating an artificial micro-market 52:30 We still don’t know exactly what AI displaces and it won’t. Support vs. Replacement and the resulting uncertainty.
38: Mike Pilawski - Overcoming your doubts through first principle thinking
24 Sep 2023
01:16:58
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Mike used to be my manager and quickly became one of my most important mentors through the years. In this very personal episode with a lot of inside stories, we talk about it all. From experiences at Smallpdf where rapid scaling pains set in and how we experienced them from the perspective of the CPO - him, and me - the core product.
Also: the concept of first principles thinking: Nokia’s prescient but uncapitalized predictions of smartphones. How to localize products and explore personal growth strategies, the importance of connecting wisdom, managing self-expectations, and how to move on from having chips on your shoulder.
Timestamps: 06:30 Reinventing yourself and companies when you hit a specific size 10:30 Our journey at Smallpdf, everything burns and scales at the same time 15:55 First principles thinking is hard to learn but necessary so you can create your own frameworks. 22:14 Nokia predicted the iPhone and Android before they happened. And it didn’t help them. 26:50 Why Product-led Growth is not the same problem in B2B as it is in B2C 29:40 Aligning Value capture with the value you create. Pricing at Typeform 32:15 Lokalise and getting shaken up by the current AI technology disruption when localizing your product in different markets 42:20 How to learn and grow personally while thinking “I don’t belong here 49:43 Having the ability to connect wisdom instead of learning everything yourself 57:53 We get angry at things because we don’t match our own expectations 62:25 Having a chip on your shoulder… and moving on from it. 67:45 Waiting too long to reward yourself for specific achievements.
37: Carilu Dietrich - How to think in hypergrowth environments
17 Sep 2023
00:52:27
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Carilu’s wheelhouse starts where mine usually begins to end. She’s an accomplished advisor to big-scale hypergrowth companies and has a way with words. How do we think of problems at different stages? How do we set ourselves up so we have a chance of experiencing different stages if nobody hires us for them? Why is storytelling so important regardless of the function you work in?
Timestamps: 08:20 Talking yourself into things you’re not qualified for 11:35 How everyone is cooking with water, while pattern recognition is what experience brings 15:25 Changing sizes of business and how they affect your role and understanding of others 20:24 Common signs that a company’s methods change from being scrappy to process-oriented 27:30 The process of advising at scale 38:57 Learning at Scale by joining a scaling company on purpose 41:05 Founders always start with Marketing and storytellers 44:40 Why and how to build relationships in companies 48:05 Insecurities as a senior leader - using them as fuel instead of obstacles
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
I followed David’s succinct learnings as a Gartner Analyst around PLG for quite some time and you’ll get to know why. He has a way with words. Talking about PLG in a B2B context usually lacks nuance and tactical tips.
Not with David, we touched on so many different topics from interactive demos to the most common misconceptions when thinking about PLG and ultimately how to marry it to your sales department.
How you can think about ungating your product without giving everything away for free?
Timestamps:
05:05 Being demanding in business while having a calm outside 07:05 When a company loses its sense of urgency 11:45 Product-led Sales: Many companies realize “We need sales.” or “We need PLG”, and one group has it much harder than the other 17:15 Product-led growth is not a one-size-fits-all thing. 19:25 Why getting attention in a commoditized market with sales-led growth is starting with a disadvantage 20:35 The most common misconceptions around PLG for Sales-led businesses 24:20 Pricing and packaging have to change if you go to a land and expand motion like product-led growth 27:35 Should I put my pricing up or not? Yes. And much more than that. Ungating for B2B 32:40 Interactive demos done right: Embedding an abstraction of your product 36:15 Why enterprise accounts don’t care about time but usage and why you cannot get this wrong in B2B 39:05 “Why does my sales cycle take so long, how do I move them faster?” 42:05 Tearing down Silos in data and customer understanding
35: Lloyed Lobo - From Grassroots to (Growth) Greatness
31 Aug 2023
01:08:45
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
This episode is very difficult to summarize, we touch on highly tactical methods on how to combine offline and online methods to drive communities. Why they are key to breaking into difficult markets and how Lobo did it in detail.
The first half of the podcast is an inspiring origin story from Lobo from the slums he came from to the incredibly successful community expert, author, and 0 to-1 genius who almost lost everything because he couldn’t balance business with his family.
In the 2nd half, we talk about highly tactical methods on how to combine offline and online to light a growth fire that goes out of control.
It’s an absolute masterclass of how to understand community-led acquisition and why your love and relentless understanding of the customer’s problems will beat any other framework.
Timestamps: 02:00 Lloyed’s Origin Story, Growing up in the Slums and a War 10:45 How we have to pretend that we’re all crushing it - how Lobo doesn’t play that game and how it haunts him 16:50 When your mother asks you “Was your upbringing not good?” and how it ignited the spark behind Lobo’s drive. 22:00 Getting priorities wrong between your business and your family. 27:00 If you don’t do the hard things and do so without having strong opinions you blend in with the status quo and have no chance of being exceptional 32:40 Authenticity is the only thing selling in a market that’s driven by word of mouth and trust through the opinions of others 35:35 Scaling a culture to more people as a senior leader to fuel your growth 42:00 Turning customers into evangelists beyond your organization by betting on a big market in a contrarian way 🔥🔥🔥🔥 51:45 How to figure out your ideal customer profile from an audience’s perspective. Market size, propensity, and how to get access to it in detail. 55:25 Using Sales as Glorified Community Managers… brokers of resources. 57:10 Shutting down a conference with 60 confirmed speakers and how to salvage it into gold 61:30 The common thing between ideas that gain traction. 64:00 The secrets you give away for free need to be uncomfortable to give away.
34: Benjamin Lamson - Selling things through a product lens and Jobs-to-be-done.
18 Aug 2023
01:07:17
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Benjamin Lamson had a great exit and no more sleep due to having a baby at home. His insecurities with rising success, how he manages to deal with it day by day, and how Jobs-to-be-done can be brought into an early-stage company.
A great conversation with a sales leader turned product-led growth lover!
Timestamps:
05:00 Are you only a real salesperson if you have a gong at home that you ring after closing a deal? 07:20 Product-led Sales 10:30 Should we give people money for closing contracts in early-stage companies? 14:22 Early-stage hire mistakes in the past 18:00 Everyone becomes more efficient and cross-functional, breaking down those silos, what about big companies? 26:05 What is wrong with our startup scene? Founders accepted valuations that were ridiculous. 33:15 Compassion as a founder towards other entrepreneurs’ loneliness. 38:20 Jobs to be done in startups on a shoestring budget 47:15 Being extremely specific about your ideal customer and applying it to business decisions 49:35 Initial price points for a company offering 54:40 Insecurities and Impostor Syndrome 64:40 AI will impact every product.
69: Janna Bastow - The challenges and opportunities AI brings to Product Management.
04 Aug 2024
00:51:18
What is the role of product managers in the age of AI and the potential impact of AI on roadmapping and expectation management?
Janna Bastow, CEO & Co-Founder ProdPad / Co-Founder of Mind the Product, shares her perspective on how AI is just another tool that can help product managers synthesize feedback and speed up certain aspects of their job.
Why AI should not replace the human element of product management, such as getting alignment from stakeholders and gathering feedback from real users and how we can think about evaluating roadmaps when they all look the same.
Why product managers being skilled in asking the right questions and validating their ideas with real customers is not optional anymore.
Takeaways
The value of a roadmap lies in the roadmapping process, not just the document itself.
AI can be used as a sense checker and sidekick to provide feedback and support decision-making, but human judgment is still crucial. Creating a company culture where employees feel comfortable challenging ideas is crucial for innovation and growth.
Product managers need to understand how their work connects to revenue and develop roadmaps that align with the company's strategy.
Sound Bites
"The job of a product manager is to get out of the building and understand what users and the market want. Especially with AI being around"
"Nobody's getting fired for using AI."
"Product managers who do not understand how their work connects to revenue will be in trouble in the future."
Chapters
00:00 The Role of Product Managers in the Age of AI
09:08 AI as a Tool for Feedback Synthesis and Speeding Up Product Management
23:17 Human Judgment and Decision-Making in Evaluating Roadmaps
25:34 Creating a Culture of Innovation and Openness
26:22 The Role of Product Managers in Driving Growth
27:41 The Impact of AI on Product Management
32:26 The Importance of Asking the Right Questions
35:19 Adapting to the Changing Landscape of Product Management
Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership.
Alexa Grabell shares honest perspectives on why she recommends every senior leader to have a product coach and how she accidentally ended up being a founder of a VC-backed gig to drive efficiency in go-to-market.
Timestamps:
2:40 What do people get wrong about Alexa? Confusing being cheery with not being serious
5:50 You lead a team, not a family
11:20 The future of GTM is data-driven and hyper-personalized
15:35 Getting thicker skin after getting rejected all the time
17:30 Hiring people too fast for what you have
18:50 Accidental ways of landing in a VC-backed company as a founder
22:00 You have to believe in what you do more than anyone else
26:30 Insecurities in business and executive coaching
31:00 The unusual merits of “being experienced”
35:30 The leverage of coaching and brutally honest feedback
39:50 Intentional community building to drive your business and the future of Go to Market
43:15 Hubspot and its powerful product and community building
32: Shanee Ben-Zur, Lessons from senior growth leadership
05 Aug 2023
00:55:20
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Today with the growth wonder Shanee Ben-Zur, her unconventional career path into senior leadership at top brands like DropBox, NVIDIA, Crunchbase, and Salesforce, and her honest account for what happened to make her what she is today. A compassionate C-level that says things as they are. We talk about how an IPO feels. Equity, reality, and the perception of senior leadership don’t always line up. And the fastest way how to mess things up when you start to lead people.
Timestamps:
03:20 What do people get wrong about Shanee 5:45 The IPO story from Dropbox from the inside 12:35 Equity: Understand how it works and keep asking until you do 15:45 The brutal reality vs Imagination of senior leadership positions 21:50 Operative vs Management vs Advising, when people stop questioning 24:20 Obstacles and difficulties in an atypical career in tech 32:30 How to learn trusting yourself to be a senior leader 40:40 Bringing growth and measurability into any company and all the difficulty that entails 44:55 You are not talking enough about first principles 48:13 Underestimating how critique and compliments work 51:30 Trends Shanee believes in, efficiency in the long-term vs short-term hacks
31: Dave Kellogg, deconstructing Conventional Wisdom in Marketing & Sales with a legend
27 Jul 2023
01:00:08
Season 2 of the ProducTea! I’m joined by a silicon valley legend: Dave Kellogg, EIR at Balderton Capital, independent consultant/advisor, and author of Kellblog.
We delve into the pitfalls of building a product strategy on shaky foundations and highlight anyone’s job of designing effective experiments to facilitate learning.
We speak about an inherent fear of executives missing out constantly and distinguishing between strategic and opportunistic revenue.
Why a company is not a democracy where every customer gets an equal say, and how to be cautious about the bad behaviors that can come from improper incentives.
We share insights on establishing control over finding successful customers in a sales-led growth company and the concept of product-led sales and territories.
Lastly, he addresses the challenges of understanding the inner workings of a SaaS company which usually means taking a hard look in the mirror.
Timestamps:
02:15 Dave’s introduction 07:18 Explaining Marketing / Sales to technical people 11:45 Not accepting things you don’t understand, conventional wisdom that’s not true 15:50 What do people get wrong about Dave? 17:35 Building product strategy on things that have no business to be built around & decision bias 22:40 Your job is to design a good experiment - did we learn or did we learn nothing? 25:17 A system that incentivizes to move metrics that are hard to manipulate → What is success? 34:10 C-level fear of missing out. Strategic revenue and opportunistic revenue 38:00 Your company is not a democracy where every customer gets one vote 40:40 Bad behavior driven by incentivizing people wrong. 47:15 Trying to get control over finding customers that will be successful in a sales-led growth company, product-led sales & territory 54:25 Why is it so difficult to understand what’s going on inside a SaaS company?
Season 2 of the ProducTea! In this episode, we’re looking at how awful or delightful it is to work with your sibling. There's a deep dive into Superhuman and Leah's disdain for email, along with the importance of creating defensible moats in product development. We elaborate on what it means to be "exceptional" and give a glimpse into Superhuman’s unique "Delight" team and its unusual structure emphasizing an oversized customer success component.
We reflect on how to attract investors for a product reliant on another product's survival. The conversation then shifts towards security vs convenience in product positioning, anchored by the founding thesis of Superhuman. We conclude it by discussing the rapid progress of underlying technology against the backdrop of regulation and how productivity tools enable more efficient utilization of time, aligning with individual aspirations.
Timestamps:
03.00 How is it to work with a sibling? 05:25 What do people get wrong about Gaurav? 08:00 Superhuman and Leah’s Disdain for Email 11:24 Defendable moats and what your product should do 15:15 What does being “Exceptional” mean? 18:30 Superhuman’s “Delight” team 20:05 Customers in dire need 23:15 Superhuman’s unusual structure with an “oversized” customer success part 26:45 How to convince investors to invest in a product that depends on the survival of another one 33:20 Security vs convenience positioning products 35:20 The founding thesis of Superhuman 39:30 Ai as proof that people put convenience before accuracy, security 44:25 The breakneck pace of the underlying technology development vs. regulation 47:08 Productivity tools free up time to do more useful things, wherever your aspirations may lie
29: Elena Verna: Growth Solopreneur - How to growth advising
05 Jul 2023
01:01:33
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Elena Verna joins me to openly gossip about our diverse income streams: Advisory, consulting, and everything else in that word salad. We both dive into our different modes of engagement with an emphasis on what the ideal duration and conditions are for each of them.
If you ever wanted to have an inside look into how growth advising happens, this is your episode.
Timestamps: 03:00 What Elena has been up to in the last 6 months 03:50 What does being a growth advisor/consultant or solopreneur mean? 09:50 Is career optionality a strength or weakness as a candidate? 15:11 How content, advising, and full-time role play into each other 17:04 How to get your first contract? 22:59 It takes a long time for your seeds to grow, learn to seed fast and putting yourself out there including your knowledge 27:19 Leah’s modes of engagements 28:34 Elena’s modes of engagements 34:14 Acceptable durations for different modes of engagements 36:54 The first 3 months as an advisor 39:10 The case for interim positions and why Elena picks them occasionally 43:40 Interim positions and reasons why companies use them 46:55 Contractual conditions you need to set up to have a chance at advising 52:10 Monetizing your advising career too early 54:50 Being a generalist vs. a specialist, disclosing weaknesses
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Kieran Flanagan is one of the most valuable things I read every day on LinkedIn, his incredible ability to connect the dots when it comes to AI and Business is the reason why it will stay that way for quite some time. He delves into the 'Content Paradox' explaining how AI is transforming content creation and curation and shares intriguing insights into Hubspot's origin story and the potential role of AI as a retention tool, not just an acquisition one.
Timestamps: 01:00 Kieran’s Introduction and Background 06:35 What people get wrong about Kieran 09:00 What are you doing in Marketing if AI is about to kill it? 13:00 Conent Paradox. AI bundling and unbundling content. 19:00 Technological leaps that make people more efficient. Are knowledge workers immune to it? 21:30 Hubspots origin story 26:00 AI is maybe a retention rather than an acquisition tool 31:40 How we think about Software is changing radically 35:20 How product-led growth is dramatically getting accelerated by AI 39:50 People definitely buy from companies not just people 43:48 How Zapier tries to offer value from before AI and now after AI
27: Teresa Torres & Hope Gurion: How to support orgs from output to outcome through discovery
19 Jun 2023
01:08:00
Season 2 of the ProducTea! For the first time, I’m joined by 2 guests and it’s none other than Teresa Torres and Hope Gurion
We discuss the importance of leadership tied to people management and highlight the value of working from a unified knowledge base from C-level to operational teams. The conversation navigates through the realities of crises such as the 2008 financial recession and connected layoffs and how frameworks cannot replace effort or “putting in the work”. We also grapple with the dilemma of impostor syndrome versus the pressure of always being correct in business.
Timestamps:
07:50 CEO: “Our PM’s are not delivering big enough ideas” 15:00 Making cases about 17:30 Tieing leadership to people management 20:40 Working from the same knowledge base from C-Level to operational product teams 27:00 When your company gets into trouble suddenly, the financial crisis in 2008 33:40 This is not the first recession we faced, layoffs are suddenly " 39:40 Having fewer people to manage might not be as good for your status but you definitely learn more 46:00 Thinking is hard and expensive, frameworks do not replace the work you have to put down 50:00 Impostor syndrome throughout our careers vs. needing to be right in business 57:30 Finding the one right answer, school vs. business life 62:00 Trends which Hope & Teresa are betting on: same old but changing what we learn in school
26: Ravi Mehta, Co-Founder Outpace, Ex-EIR Reforge, CPO@Tinder, Product@Facebook, Tripadvisor, Xbox
14 Jun 2023
00:56:45
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Seasoned tech leader Ravi shares his insights on founding a business amidst AI disruption, the evolving capabilities of AI in empathy, and the challenges we faced of leadership post our careers at Microsoft. We also explore the concept of dual career ladders, some crazy pivots we both experienced as product leaders. Ravi also addresses dealing with insecurities after achieving significant career success and balancing opportunity cost with efficient time use.
Timestamps:
02:00 Ravi’s introduction 07:25 Ravi’s Origins & Gossip about Microsoft 10:30 Founding a business in a domain that is getting shaken up by AI 20:03 AI products outperform humans on empathy. What “really” matters to people 27:30 What do people get wrong about Ravi? Leading small companies with a big company resume 32:00 When you lose the possibility to micromanage everything. Tripadvisor 36:50 Opportunity sizing for initiatives, Conviction vs Healthy skepticism 44:00 IC careers vs. Manager career Dual Career Ladders 52:55 What kind of insecurities do you deal with once you have “done it all already”: opportunity cost and how to use time efficient
25: Sam Crowell, Head of Growth ngrok, Self-serve and PLG Leader
03 Jun 2023
00:47:52
Season 2 of the ProducTea! We discuss key distinctions in B2B contexts, notably between buyers and users, and individual versus team metrics. The importance of KPI design in product-led companies and why you can’t skip on this secret weapon, the critique of being in large tech corporations right now, and we explore the benefits of API-first companies in terms of retention.
Timestamps: 01:00 Sam’s Introduction 06:50 Sam’s best growth experiences to move her forward 12:00 Differentiate between buyers and users in B2B 14:45 Individual vs Team metrics 19:13 Companies quitting product-led growth 21:38 Net Dollar Retention is a metric you probably get wrong 24:00 Doing “product” in product-led vs. sales-led companies: KPI Design is a secret weapon that you can’t outsource 28:10 Uncomfortable Truths in tech, don’t be in big companies right now 34:35 Retainer and Full-Time roles feeding the content recycling machine 37:55 Using control over your calendar to battle insecurities 39:55 A lot of people depend on your decisions as a “Head of” 41:30 Context switching matters more than the number of hours you have available 45:10 API-first companies have an insane retention advantage
24: Patrick Campbell, CSO Paddle, Founder Profitwell
25 May 2023
01:08:33
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Patrick is the real deal, he ships more than a shipyard, is vulnerable and open with what most likely makes him successful. His unbending will to build something that lasts and how it all connects together with the last step of a buyer's journey: monetization. His personal framework on how to stay on top regardless of what the market throws at him in his day to day.
Timestamps: 01:00 Patricks Introduction 04:00 The origin of Patrick’s pricing and content 05:55 Help sells 09:40 How the perspective of what you said changes after success 14:10 Creating a culture of feedback is about being intentional 16:30 How to learn anything 21:15 Insecurities & Patrick’s Scoreboard 27:53 Impostor Syndrome and comparing yourself to others 31:20 Thinking too much about shipping without shipping anything 34:05 Patrick’s grim numbers on the market shifting, RIP acquisition 39:50 Can AI really automate all Acquisition? 48:15 How changes look like if you consider the human element and time to change anything 52:50 Tactical tips vs Behavioural change through cadence 56:50 Do you have to be broken to be hard-working? Setting up your surroundings to fit your ideal way of working.
68: Vijay Iyengar: Unbundling PLG and why BI tools are not good for analysis
28 Jul 2024
00:53:26
When is PLG just a fad? Vijay Iyengar, Senior Director of Product at Mixpanel discusses with me about the misconceptions around PLG and the role of analytics in driving business growth and why first principles is in our field the only thing we have.
Do PM’s really need to have a basic understanding of data and how it is stored and analyzed with LLMs being the norm? Why business intelligence (BI) tools are not the answer.
Which key metrics and questions are correct to start with if you’re trying to get your data under control?
Takeaways
PLG is not suitable for every business
Business intelligence (BI) tools are good for consumption and reporting, but not for analysis.
Data quality is a challenge, and engineers need to care about data and be involved in tracking.
Sound Bites
"There's no best practices the way there are in other fields. Like it's all being written. It's all first principles."
"There's plenty of businesses that can monetize much better and grow much better focusing on a different segment of the market where PLG isn't the appropriate sales motion."
"Core root analysis, just following people around this is very, very underappreciated."
"BI tools are good at consumption. It's good when you've predefined a set of metrics and dimensions and you want to push that out for general consumption."
"Reporting is great to just keep a pulse on things, but nobody ever found an insight from reporting or nobody ever found something that's needle moving from a report."
Chapters
03:23 The Relevance and Overrating of Product-Led Growth (PLG)
05:15 Finding the Right Sales Motion for Your Business
09:28 The Importance of Tracking and Analytics in Sales Motions
13:44 Focusing on Churn and Retention for Sustainable Growth
22:14 Understanding the First Week Experience and Power Users
26:27 Understanding Data in Product Management
27:52 Limitations of BI Tools
29:19 Challenges of Data Quality and the Need for Engineers to Care
31:44 The Role of the CTO and CPO in Driving Data-Driven Decision-Making
46:34 Getting Started with Data Analysis: Focusing on Key Metrics
23: Adam Fishman, Interim Executive, Reforge EIR, ex-Patreon
11 May 2023
00:41:31
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Adam is funny, a friend, and a dad from San Francisco, and does not get any kickback for not recommending JIRA. He’s also an incredibly accomplished brain when it comes to anything Growth and Growth Leadership.
We have both a united love for actionable metrics and we talk about those that we (almost) never touch because they are not:
NPS / CAC / Burndown points and MQLs.
Timestamps:
0:00 Adam’s Introduction 03:45 The tire fire that JIRA is, Stockholm Syndrome as a Service 07:05 Notion is like a grandma’s attic 08:15 How would Adam & Leah define a useless metric 11:30 NPS at Patreon and Leah’s evolution of disgust 17:00 TrustScore at Patreon & CES at Smallpdf 20:52 The problems with CAC 27:50 Team efficiency, burndown charts 33:10 Measuring what your team does 36:00 Why Machine learning works the same way as good product teams 38:15 MQLs & Followers
22: Tanja Lau, Founder Product Academy, Business Angel
01 May 2023
00:50:29
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Tanja is the founder of Product Academy, a Mom, an Angel Investor, and someone that wrestled control over her calendar through years of experience, burnout, and other incredible lifehacks.
Her family runs on OKRs and we both dive deep into how our understanding of behavior is driving everything.
Timestamps:
0:00 Tanja’s introduction 08:20 Saying no to people, being intentional about your time 10:12 Burnout 13:46 OKR planning for your family and yourself 17:50 Incentivization is the main predictor of how a company is run 19:32 Tanja’s most influential source of wisdom - Entrepreneurship 22:10 Putting people before companies and when to make the decision to leave 25:09 Unmeasured “product sense” is bullshit 31:00 Unschooling, we prepare our kids wrong for life 37:00 Leadership and strategic thinking 42:45 Being disciplined and vulnerable at the same time 45:30 Learning how to give good feedback
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Gagan is a serial entrepreneur who cannot get enough when it comes to enabling efficient learning. He co-founded Udemy and Maven, both huge learning platforms.
We’re talking about the importance and future of learning and why it’s becoming more relevant than ever and the entire AI craziness around it.
Timestamps:
0:00 Gagan’s introduction
02:00 The perpetual wheel of serial entrepreneurship pain and why we still do it
05:15 Efficiency by way of experience in running companies
08:55 The ideal person to learn something from cohort-based learning like Maven
11:20 Leah’s experience learning stuff in cohorts
13:27 Universities are getting beat by their own game
18:30 Companies and learning budgets
24:15 Learning how to learn, completion rates by format
30:05 AI / AR / VR and trends that never really get hold in the market, is AI going to be THAT crazy?
35:55 What’s happening if you sleep on learning about AI in the next couple of years
40:14 The goal of the AI revolution for you in product
43:40 Trends Gagan is betting on - the future of work
20: Petra Wille, How to grow Strong Product People
17 Apr 2023
00:47:31
Season 2 of the ProducTea! Petra is an expert in coaching and wrote one of the most popular books on the topic “Strong Product People” which is a fantastic operative, down-to-earth guide to growing future leaders.
Timestamps:
0:00 Petra’s Introduction
04:40 The issues with conferences
09:20 What do people get wrong about Petra?
13:30 The time is right to be in Product Management
17:40 Academia-led education is losing its importance & Petra’s most valuable source of knowledge
20:05 Who are Petra’s favorite product people to help out?
22:50 How does anyone in product prepare for this industry today?
27:00 Define your realistic Learning Roadmap
29:50 People idolize thought leaders, and realism in our day to day
34:00 Learnings from Being a public product figure
35:40 Personal Development, learning from and with each other
39:30 Most of the time we’re just not correct. We live in an “it depends” world
43:50 Trends in the industry, where does this all go?