Product Marketing for You – Details, episodes & analysis

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Product Marketing for You

An Alley-Oop PMM Podcast

Business

Frequency: 1 episode/11d. Total Eps: 20

Product Marketing for You is for PMMs who want insight they can actually use. Each season explores one macro topic from every angle that matters — conversations with PMMs who've shipped it, plus the cross-functional teammates building GTM alongside you. Each conversation is 20 minutes or less and comes with a framework, template, or playbook you'll actually use tomorrow.

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Data updated on 23/09/2026

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https://www.pmmcamp.com/community
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https://www.pmmcamp.com
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https://pmmcamp.com
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaragrominsky/
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-marcotullio/
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/zgroberts/
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Your Next Product Launch Could Use a Little Rolling Thunder w/April Dunford

Season 1 · Episode 19

Tuesday, September 1, 2026 • Duration 30:21

I've been fanboying over April's work for years. Her book "Obviously Awesome" was foundational—it taught me what good positioning actually looks like. I literally read it weekly at one point. Still do, quarterly, to make sure I'm not drifting too far off.

So when I was winding down this season and wanted to go out with something special, there was only one person I wanted in the chair: April Dunford.

Problem: I'd never actually talked to her. And surely someone running a massive positioning consultancy wouldn't have time for a scrappy PMM podcast, right?

I filled out a form on her site anyway. Just threw it out there: "I know you're prob busy—but would love to have you on to talk product launches."

She responded. I think I blacked out for a moment.

Next thing I know, I'm recording with the PMM GOAT and this conversation went 30 minutes because it was too good to cut short.

She casually drops the "rolling thunder" concept—just because your product is released doesn't mean you have to launch it—and a bunch of other absolute gems about how most launches fail, why your positioning thesis is probably wrong, and what big companies do that startups don't.

Here's what we got into:

What exactly is a Rolling Thunder launch? A Rolling Thunder launch decouples your product's release from your marketing launch — instead of one all-or-nothing "big bang" day, you spread your announcement across multiple moments over the course of a year. April picked this up running launches at IBM, where big companies never tie software availability to a single splashy event.

The 4 phases, straight from April:

Pre-launch: Tease that something's coming to whip up demand with your most likely buyers, and brief analysts lightly — before you're ready to say much. Bonus effect: it puts competitors on notice mid-sales-cycle.
Launch: The day marketing actually talks: the event, the PR, the first customer stories. Key detail — this can happen months after the product was quietly made available to real users.
Momentum Launch (~3 months later): Go back out and report on traction: usage numbers, logos, metrics. This is where the customers you held back from day one finally get used.
Follow-on / Point Release Launch (~3 months after that): Announce the thing customers have been asking for since launch, with more proof points attached. Then the cycle often restarts with a new tease for what's next.

We also get into why locking your positioning to your GA date is a mistake — and how a quiet, limited-availability period lets you validate your positioning thesis with real customers before you spend the budget on the big moment.

Additional Resources

Get April's Book "Obviously Awesome"
Work with April

And huge thanks to PMM Camp for partnering with us for S1 - it's THE place to grow as a PMM leader, get connected with like-minded PMM peers, and single handedly contributed to 2/3 of this season's guests.

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His $12K Launch Flopped - Here's What He Learned (That You Need to Hear) w/Zach Roberts

Season 1 · Episode 18

Wednesday, August 26, 2026 • Duration 21:06

A few years back, I'd just launched a brand new pod, and out of nowhere Zach shot me a DM just to tell me he was rooting for it. No ask, no agenda — just a kind gesture that ended up changing my life for the better.

Fast forward to now: we text almost weekly, he's my go-to PMM sounding board keeping me sane, and he's living his best life running his own agency, Scope and Sequence, and chopping it up on the We're Not Marketers podcast.

But it wasn't always smooth. If you follow Zach on LinkedIn (you should), he's refreshingly candid about the wins, the losses, and the painful lessons along the way.

One of those lessons is exactly what we get into on this one: he dropped $12k on a launch for his newly created offering, waited 30 days, and watched zero pipeline show up. The killer wasn't the offer — it was one objection he kept hearing on repeat: "AI can build that for us."

In this episode he unpacks exactly what happened with that launch, the research he did afterward, and how he's rebuilding his whole approach to AI workflows and product launches around intention and process instead of just chasing a hunch.

Here's what we get into:

The real signal buried underneath "AI can build that for us"
Three reasons AI workflows stall before teams even get started
Why "this feels hard" is a green light, not a reason to bail
How to strip emotional attachment out of a launch decision so you know when to pivot
The intention-plus-process shift he's carrying into what's next

Resources from this Episode

Connect with Zach on LinkedIn
Listen to Zach on the We're Not Marketers pod
Check out what Zach's building w/Scope & Sequence

How to Build Your Launch Goals From Scratch in 4 Steps w/Tamara Grominsky

Season 1 · Episode 17

Thursday, August 6, 2026 • Duration 18:30

I was building out Season 1 of this podcast and realized I had a gap: I'd never actually talked about how to set launch goals. So I asked a bunch of PMMs how they approach it.

Most of them said some version of the same thing: "I kind of guess."

That's when Tamara—who I know through PMM Camp—dropped a post on this exact topic. She walked through the entire process: how to think about it, what questions to ask, where to get your numbers. And it wasn't vague theory. It was tactical, step-by-step stuff.

So we recorded this episode. Tamara's the founder of PMM Camp and has set launch goals across companies like Unbounce and FreshBooks. She's seen what works and what doesn't. And she's been incredibly generous about breaking down the whole thing.

Why do you need to set a launch goal?

According to Tamara, most PMMs feel like they're picking a number out of a hat when they set launch goals. But it's actually much more logical than that. It's about understanding what company goal you're supporting with the launch—are you driving acquisition, retention, expansion, or entering a new market?—and then working backward from there. Once you know the underlying company goal, you can connect every assumption, every metric, and every success criteria back to it. Without that connection, you'll hit a number but miss alignment. And alignment is what gets you recognized.

Here's how Tamara approaches setting launch goals:

Step 1: Connect the launch back to the company goal — Start by asking: What is the company trying to achieve by building this? Are we acquiring new customers, retaining existing ones, expanding revenue, solving churn, or entering a new market? This conversation comes first—before anything else. It's the foundation everything else hangs on.
Step 2: Ask "Why are we building this?" and align your product manager — Don't assume the product solves everything. Approach your PM with curiosity and frame it as a team effort: "How do we both position ourselves to get the highest impact outcome?" Get clear on the primary business driver. If your PM says "this feature will do everything," dig deeper. Most launches need a singular focus, even if the product has broader potential.

Why Your Launch Enablement Doesn't Matter If Your Reps Don't Believe w/Allison Rona

Season 1 · Episode 16

Friday, July 31, 2026 • Duration 18:39

I met Allison at a startup marketer panel in SF about a year ago, and from the literal moment I introduced myself, I knew she was both a dope human and a legitimately sharp PMM. We stayed connected over that year—talking PMM life, venting about what we loved and hated about the work, and watching as she seriously pondered the jump from agency life to going in-house.

Then she landed at PetDesk, and honestly, what she's been doing there has been nothing short of SICK. But there's one specific product launch move she pulled off that made my ears perk up immediately. I knew I had to get her on the podcast.

In this episode, she walks me through the exact moment a conference demo shifted her entire team's trajectory, how she weaponized a real customer reaction to scale confidence across the org, and the unsexy-but-critical enablement moves that most of us miss when we're too obsessed with perfect messaging instead of actual belief.

Here's what we get into:

Why great messaging on a deck won't fix a confidence gap (and what enablement actually has to do)
The conference demo story that led to one rep doubling his quota (and how it rippled across the entire team)
How to use live customer reactions and proof points in your enablement to build seller confidence at scale
The demo iteration move that actually works: watching what lands in real time, then rebuilding your enablement around it
One relationship-first thing you can do tomorrow to start embedding with your sales team

Resources from this Episode

Connect with Allison on LinkedIn

And a special thanks to PMM Camp for sponsoring this season - where product marketers build leadership range so they can move beyond execution to influence decisions, shape strategy, and build a trusted team.

Internal Comms is Your Launch Superpower - Here's How to Stop Winging It w/Sushmita Banda

Season 1 · Episode 15

Tuesday, July 21, 2026 • Duration 18:56

I recorded this conversation with Sushmita a few months back, and it's become essential listening because it names something I see everywhere with PMM: we obsess over external launch messaging and completely wing internal comms.

Sushmita is now a Senior PMM at KEV Group, but when we talked, she'd orchestrated launches across a massive multi-product portfolio. And here's what she told me — most organizations have zero structure around who needs what information, when they need it, and why it matters.

Sales gets surprised at launch day. Product doesn't know what's being said about their work. CS has no idea what questions are coming. And suddenly your launch collapses not because the messaging was bad, but because nobody inside the building was actually aligned.

This is the blind spot that separates senior PMMs from everyone else - and thank goodness it's a pretty quick fix.

Here's what we cover:

Why internal comms is the least structured part of launches — and why it's actually killing your credibility
Launch vs. release: understanding the difference so you're not over-communicating or under-communicating
The communication checkpoint framework: mapping stakeholders backwards from launch day so nobody gets blindsided
How tiering launches keeps you sane when you're managing multiple products
One thing you can do tomorrow: build your own comms timeline and watch how much harder you can push back post-launch

Resources

Connect with Sushmita on LinkedIn

Your Sales Team Is Breaking Your Message - Here's Why w/Ashley Guerra

Season 1 · Episode 14

Wednesday, July 15, 2026 • Duration 22:08

Your sales team reads your messaging doc once and starts saying it their own way. Your marketing team reshapes it for their campaigns. Your customers reinterpret it for their own workflows. And you're probably blaming them for it.

Ashley thinks the problem is actually on you - and at LinkedIn, she's figured out how to fix it.

In this episode, Ashley pulls back the curtain on what actually makes messaging work across a team. We talk about why alignment matters more than craft, how to design your message so it doesn't break when it's retold, and why enablement isn't an afterthought—it's the entire job.

Here's what we get into:

Why clarity and alignment are not the same thing (and why alignment is harder)
How to design your messaging so it survives the game of telephone
The difference between message craft and message activation
Why co-building with your team early saves you from chaos later
How to test if your message breaks down once it leaves your hands

Resources from this episode

Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn

And a special shout out to this season's sponsor, PMM Camp - where product marketers build leadership range so they can move beyond execution to influence decisions, shape strategy, and build a trusted team.

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Stop Guessing on Launch Day: Meet Your New Message Testing Framework w/Shannon Kearns

Season 1 · Episode 13

Thursday, May 14, 2026 • Duration 23:30

Here's the problem most PMMs face: you're about to brief your marketing team on a product you don't fully understand yet. No customer research backing it. No positioning validated. Just a product that exists and a launch date that's locked.

That's exactly where Shannon found herself a few years back. Her hand was forced. So she did something unconventional—she decided to test the messaging in market before committing the budget. She worked with her acquisition team, set up rapid tests, and learned more in two weeks than she would have in months of gut feel.

That forced experiment became a framework. And she's now refined it across 15+ launches for D2C, PLG, and early-stage companies.

What is A/B message testing for product launches?

According to Shannon, it's the fastest way to move from ideas, hypotheses, and gut feel into actual data-backed things that work—and then scale them. It's not a replacement for research. It's a feedback loop during your launch that lets you test multiple angles in market, learn what resonates in real time, and bring those insights back to the entire organization so everyone's learning together as you roll out.

Here's how Shannon approaches doing message testing for product launches:

Step 1: Start with performance context — Pull existing data that informs how tests should run: old campaign data, results from your last message test, whatever you have that shows what's worked before. Work with your acquisition team to see what they want to measure.
Step 2: Design your test structure — Run a couple rounds of concept tests with a specific budget allocation. Build 3-4 ad variants per concept (not just one). This gives you valid output. Shannon's seen organizations run $500 per concept over a 5-day sprint for enough data to make a decision.
Step 3: Define your primary test metric — How are you actually measuring success? Short sales cycle D2C? Maybe it's return on ad spend. Maybe you need to move up market and just look at cost per click. These are directional results—you're not trying to do the acquisition team's job, you're getting a read on the market.

Your Launch Needs An Interactive Demo - Here's How to Build One That Converts w/Natalie Marcutullio

Season 1 · Episode 12

Thursday, May 14, 2026 • Duration 19:59

I've been a Navattic fanboy for years. I always wondered: how much is the tool versus knowing what you're doing? So I asked Natalie, Head of Product Marketing at Navattic. She's watched teams nail interactive demos or waste months building the wrong thing.

Most PMMs skip demos entirely—"too much work," they say. But Natalie's seen the data. It's costing you pipeline on launch day.

Why do you need an interactive demo for a product launch?

Most PMMs record themselves clicking through like a tutorial. That's the problem. An interactive demo isn't about showing everything—it's controlled storytelling that converts. When you're launching, prospects are skeptical. They want to see it work in context, with real data, controlled by them. A proper demo eliminates friction and proves value.

Here's how Natalie approaches building interactive demos for launches:

Step 1: Decide goal and channel first — Where lives this demo? Homepage? Landing page? Email? Sales enablement? Your channel determines length, depth, and value props.
Step 2: Identify 2-3 aha moments — Listen to sales calls. Find what actually closes deals, not everything the product does. Gut-check with sales before building.
Step 3: Capture with the right method — Public-facing? Use HTML capture (86% of top demos do). You can edit data to show real context. Internal? Screenshots work.
Step 4: Write line-by-line script — Focus on those 2-3 moments. Use AI to draft from existing assets (sales scripts, positioning docs). Always edit first drafts. Gut-check with sales.
Step 5: Optimize for 5-13 steps — Completion drops past 13 steps. If you need more, break into chapters (3-6 max) and let users choose what to explore.
Step 6: Make the gating call — 65-70% of top demos are ungated (higher engagement). If you gate: one field only, explain why, show value.
Step 7: Polish, brand, add multiple CTAs — Match your brand colors. Use text variation. Add CTA halfway through, not just at the end. Track and iterate.

Your Launch Docs Suck Because You Followed the Template to the T w/Talya Heller

Season 1 · Episode 11

Monday, April 27, 2026 • Duration 24:49

You found the perfect template. You filled it in to the letter. You shipped it. And then... your leadership tears it apart, your sales team ignores it, and you're left wondering what went wrong.

Talya has been there. Multiple times. Across multiple companies. And she's got a sharp take on why we treat frameworks like gospel when they should be treated like clay that needs reshaping for your actual business.

In this episode, we skip the rigid structure and just talk - because that's what happens when Talya shows up. She walks through the exact moment when a PMM defaults to a template and why that's what kills launches. She also breaks down how to pressure-test any doc before it goes live, how to trust your instinct even if you're junior, and why your BS meter is probably right.

Here's what we cover:

Why templates feel safe (and why that's the trap)
The difference between using a framework as a jumping-off point vs. following it blindly
How to stress-test positioning docs, messaging frameworks, and battle cards before they blow up
Why your past experience is better than you think it is
How to know when something's off and actually do something about it

This is for anyone who's grabbed something from PMA, LinkedIn, or a book and thought: "Is this actually good, or am I just supposed to believe it is?" It's also the first episode of what might become something bigger with Talya, so stick around.

Resources from this Episode

Connect with Talya on LinkedIn
Get more resources + insight on the Down to a T website

And a special shout out to this season's sponsor, PMM Camp — where product marketers build leadership range so they can move beyond execution to influence decisions, shape strategy, and build a trusted team.

From Static to Dynamic: How to Turn AI Into Your Sales Enablement Cheat Code w/Michele Nieberding

Season 1 · Episode 10

Wednesday, April 8, 2026 • Duration 24:23

Your sales team is frozen. It's 10 minutes before the call and they're Slack-panicking about competitor differences you've literally documented five different ways. The problem isn't the content — it's that static enablement turns into a black hole.

Michele thinks that's exactly the wrong way to build for sales, and she's got a framework to prove it.

In this episode she pulls back the curtain on what's actually broken with traditional sales enablement, the specific types of content that make LLMs useful instead of hallucination machines, and a three-by-three framework you can start using tomorrow morning to turn your PMM chaos into sales gold.

Here's what we cover:

Why your sales enablement is disappearing into a black hole (and how AI actually fixes it)
The "high signal, low noise" documents that make LLMs actually work for your team
The if-then objection vault: structuring your content so AI gives real answers (not roadmap BS)
Four other content types PMMs skip that completely change the game
The 3x3 framework: start tomorrow with three scary questions and three champion reps
How to stop your LLM from confidently lying (and keep your job in the process)

Resources from this Episode:

Access Michele's AI for PMM Sales Enablement Resource Tool
Connect with Michele on LinkedIn

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Product Marketing for You – Details, episodes & analysis

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Product Marketing for You – Details, episodes & analysis

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