Plants Always Win – Details, episodes & analysis

In this interview episode, Sean chats with Paul Zammit about the life of a garden communicator. Paul has had a long career in horticulture and is presently a professor of Horticulture and Environmental Studies at Niagara College as well as CBC’s Ontario Today gardening expert—although “expert” is a term he would like to contest. After all, we never stop learning, and that’s especially true in the garden. Paul and Sean talk about selfish gardening (taking space from nature for ourselves) compared to building a biodiverse space that wildlife can enjoy alongside us—even if that means broadening our definition of beauty. They lament the spread of incomplete and untrue gardening tips online, although they’re still excited about the information-sharing power of social media. And although they’d happily talk forever, they force themselves to wrap up the conversation by answering some listener questions about insect-afflicted ash trees and re-blooming orchids. 

Find Paul on Instagram at @paulsplantpix  

Paul Zammit is a professor at  Niagara College’s School of Environment and Horticulture. 

He can be found giving garden advice on CBC’s Ontario Today program 

He occasionally co-leads international tours of public and private gardens. 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH



0:45 Preamble

1:15 Interview

2:33 Paul’s Impressive Résumé

4:04 Leading Garden Tours

7:11 “Garden Expert”, and Other Misnomers

13:07 Gardening is different everywhere!

15:25 Biodiversity: If You Plant it, They Will Come

16:24 Invasive Species and Constructive Conversations

21:30 Rethinking Beauty

24:03 Cultivars Aren’t Evil

26:24 Gardening for Ourselves and for Nature

35:20 Social Media and Iffy Plant Hacks

42:07 Intermission

42:50 Q&A

44: 26 Emerald Ash Borers

46:35 Re-Blooming Orchids

53:12 Paul's Shout-Outs

56:20 Outro 

In this “versus” episode, Erin and Sean face off with two big holiday plants: Poinsettias and Amaryllis. Erin comes in swinging with the fraught history of settler (Poinsettia) and Indigenous (cuetlaxochitl) names for her plant, but Sean pushes back with the romantic (or is it?) mythology behind amaryllis. Both contenders shatter misconceptions (Poinsettias are not toxic! Some amaryllis are imposters!) and share care tips for keeping these festive flora in good shape during the holidays and year round. A few tangents slip in about specialist insects that thrive on toxic plants and the way plants interpret light and darkness. And of course we get a plant rant about florists and nurseries using spray paint and glitter. The episode wraps up with a listener question about how late she can plant an evergreen tree. 

Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Erin with poinsettias or Sean with amaryllis? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Cultural history of poinsettias

Kohfeld, M. (2024, November 30). Cuetlaxochitl: A cultural history of the Poinsettia. Swansons Nursery. https://www.swansonsnursery.com/blog/history-of-poinsettias 

Chart of specialist insects who sequester the toxins (glycocides) in milkweed sap 

Holdrege, C. (n.d.). The Story of an Organism: Common Milkweed — The Nature Institute. The Nature Institute. https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege/the-story-of-an-organism-common-milkweed

Commercial production of poinsettias

Environmental Horticulture Department - UF/IFAS. (n.d.). Production Guidelines - Poinsettia Cultivation. Commercial Floriculture. https://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/floriculture/poinsettia/production_guidelines.shtml 

Dr. Ing-Ming Lee’s research into phytoplasmas

Ing-Ming Lee. (n.d.). The American Phytopathological Society (APS). https://www.apsnet.org/members/give-awards/awards/Fellows/Pages/Ing-MingLee.aspx

Care and reblooming of poinsettias

Schnelle, M. (2017, April 1). Poinsettia Care. Oklahoma State University Extension. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/poinsettia-care.html

Weisenhorn, J. (2024). Growing and caring for poinsettia. UMN Extension. https://extension.umn.edu/houseplants/poinsettia 

Plants in the amaryllis family

Petruzzello, M. (2016, March 8). List of plants in the family Amaryllidaceae | Amaryllis, Narcissus, Hyacinth. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/list-of-plants-in-the-family-Amaryllidaceae-2058006

Facts about Amaryllis

DeJohn, S. (2024, October 17). Amaryllis Legends and Fun Facts. Gardeners Supply Company.

https://www.gardeners.com/how-to/amaryllis-facts/8660.html 

Amaryllis and hippeastrum 

Mahr, S. (n.d.). Amaryllis, Hippeastrum. Wisconsin Horticulture. https://hort.extension.wisc.edu/articles/amaryllis-hippeastrum/ 

0:51 What’s Growing On?

0:56 Winter Prep (and lack thereof)

1:57 Sean Got a Puppy!

2:51 The Plant Face-Off

3:30 Poinsettias and Pronunciation

4:22 Cottoneaster Tangent

4:42 Pointsettia Etymology

5:40 Poinsettia Sap: Not Toxic!

8:25 The Euphorbia Plant Family

10:16 Turning Shrubs into House Plants

12:12 Tricking Plants with Light

14:17 Spray-Painted Poinsettias

17:31 Poinsettia Care

21:50 How (not) to Research Plants Online

23:45 What is—and isn’t—an Amaryllis?

25:01 Amaryllis Relatives

26:26 The Amaryllis Identity Crisis

28:48 Naturalized vs. Invasive Plants

29:58 600+ Amaryllis Cultivars

30:50 Romantic(?) Amaryllis Mythology

31:43 How Amaryllis Grows

38:14 Amaryllis Care

44:47 Q&A: Can You Plant a Tree in Late Fall?

47:28 Contact Us & Outro

In this pilot episode of Plants Always Win, Erin and Sean give the Plant Face-Off a trial run…with a twist. Instead of competing for viewers’ votes with the most interesting information about a plant or gardening concept, they go head to head with competing interviews of each other. Find out what theft has to do with Erin’s early forays into gardening, why she makes content about gardening with chronic illness and disability, and how talking about plants every week complements her literary life. Then learn how Sean’s mom got him into a horticulture career, explore the pros and cons of the profession, and get excited about Sean’s dreams for a botanical garden in Muskoka, Ontario. We wrap up with some impromptu (and impassioned) tangents on invasive plants in garden centres, cities that plant only male trees, cultivars vs. nativars, and permaculture.

Find Sean online at @GardenGuyMuskoka on TikTok and Instagram.

Find Erin online at @EarthUndaunted on TikTok, @ErinAlladin on Instagram, and at https://earthundaunted.com/.

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon.

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

00:52 What's Growing On?

1:00: Erin vs. Quack Grass

2:17 Sean's Zone 4 Fruit Trees

3:27 Raccoons 1 | Chickens 0

4:50 First Frosts

6:24 Plant Face-Off

7:00 Sean's topic: Erin

7:52 Stealing Gardens from Parents

8:50 Gardening with Chronic Illness

12:40 Why Erin Agreed to Do This Podcast

13:52 Our Wives Think We’re Big Nerds

15:37 Erin's Least Favourite Thing About Gardening

19:15 Erin's Topic: Sean

19:20 Blame it on Sean's Mom

21:16 The Garden Labour Trap

22:57 The Master Gardeners of Ontario

24:00 Running a Landscaping Business

26:09 The Muskoka Botanical Garden Dream

27:26: Why Sean Started This Podcast

28:53: Sean's Rant: Stop Selling Invasive Plants

33:51 Erin's Rant: Male-Only City Trees

33:22 Nativars and Cultivars

38:17 Selfish Gardening vs. Permaculture

41:26 Contact Us & Outro

In this Versus episode, it’s the battle of herbs and spices. Get your fill of these fascinating aromatic plants that have flavoured our food and changed our history since paleolithic times. Learn why they bother smelling so good—and what you can do to make the most of their flavour—then get ready to cast your vote in the Plant Face-Off. Sean is representing the herbs with bay laurel, a plant not to be confused with the many other bays and laurels in the world—especially not the toxic ones. Learn how it grows, how to preserve the leaves, and why there are so many misconceptions about its safety. Erin follows up with mustard seed and how to grow and prepare it…but first she shakes things up with some tasty knowledge about spices around the world.

Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Sean with bay leaves or Erin with mustard seed? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

What is a spice?

Hogeback, J. (n.d.). What’s the difference between an herb and a spice? Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-an-herb-and-a-spice

Essential Oils/Volatile Oils

Biology Online. (2023, September 15). Volatile oil - Definition and Examples - Biology Online Dictionary. Biology Articles, Tutorials & Dictionary Online. https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/volatile-oil

iHerb.org’s Herbs of the Year

International Herb Association. (2023, May 30). Herb of the Year™. https://www.iherb.org/herb-of-the-year/ 

Bay laurel’s history and use

Belsinger, S. (2009, March 18). Bay (Laurus nobilis): From Legend and Lore to Fragrance and Flavor. Fine Gardening. https://www.finegardening.com/article/bay-laurus-nobilis-from-legend-and-lore-to-fragrance-and-flavor?srsltid=AfmBOoonN-BDS8stQ2WPnnKPaq6O6XNdSRjOD1nROnT2zNqDeIo7KlEC 

The toxicity of laurel hedges

Hopes Grove Nurseries. (2024, September 23). Are Laurel hedges poisonous?. https://www.hopesgrovenurseries.co.uk/knowledge-base/are-laurel-hedges-poisonous/#:~:text=You%20are%20here%3A%20Home%20%C2%BB%20Are,cause%20serious%20complications%20if%20ingested 

Medicinal uses and side effects of bay laurel

BAY LEAF: Overview, uses, side effects, precautions, interactions, dosing and reviews. (n.d.). WebMD. Retrieved December 27, 2024, from https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-685/bay-leaf 

The biology of white mustard (also known as yellow mustard)

Canadian Food Inspection Agency. (2022, May 6). The biology of Sinapis alba L. (mustard). inspection.canada.ca. https://inspection.canada.ca/en/plant-varieties/plants-novel-traits/applicants/directive-94-08/biology-documents/sinapis-alba#a24 

Growing saffron in Ontario

Balzer, D. (2024, November 6). Growing saffron – in a cool Canadian climate! Donna Balzer. https://donnabalzer.com/growing-saffron-in-a-cool-canadian-climate/ 

Timestamps

00:12 Intro

00:53 What’s Growing On?

01:07 Erin Gets Native Seed Mail

02:17 This Episode is Dedicated to Siblings

02:58 The Plant Face Off

03:08 Herbs and Spices: Definitions

04:25 How Bias Affects Research

06:00 Sean’s Plant: Bay Laurel

08:05 The Laurecea Plant Family

08:45 A Laurel by Any Other Name Might be Toxic

10:02 Mediterranean Evergreens

11:22 Tree Genders

13:28 Medicinal Uses of Bay Laurel

14:40 Bay Leaves: They’re Sharp

17:49 Preserving Bay Leaves

19:40 Growing Bay Laurel 

20:40 Aromatics to Deter Pests

23:50 Erin’s Spice Journey

24:59 Preserving Spice Potency

26:41 Spice Fun Facts

28:56 Erin’s Plant: Mustard 

29:12 The Fascinating Brassica Family

32:28 Making Your Own Mustard

36:26 Mustard Types

39:13 Q&A: Low-Fuss, Low-Light Houseplants

43:23 Listener Feedback

45:41 Contact Us & Outro

We’re always pretty nerdy on Plants Always Win, but in this interview episode Alex Meinders helps us take it to a whole new level. He’s a wildlife biologist and videogame enthusiast whose passion project is the YouTube and TikTok channel Geek Ecology. He uses his real-world science know-how to analyze the biology and ecology of Pokémon—yes, those quirky monsters from the cartoon, card game, and video games. 

This week Alex speculates with us about the plant-inspired class of grass-type Pokémon. We consider their place in the food web (are they animals or vegetables?), their evolutionary history (what environmental pressure caused them to look like plants?) and their methods of reproduction (do they create clones by seed and genetic diversity by egg?). If you’re worried about missing out on real-world plant talk, never fear! We dig into some fascinating plants along the way, including the parasitic corpse flower, the piratical ghost pipe, and mandrakes, which really do look like that.  

Find Alex on YouTube, TikTok, and Twitter at @GeekEcology.

Fact Check:

We promised some fact-checking during the episode! Here are the results: 

Alex brought up the subject of a tissue-culture mammoth meatball that made news headlines. This was created in 2023 by Australian company Vow as a way to bring attention to their cultivated meat products. It turns out the meatball was not eaten since no one knows how our immune systems will react to protein from 10,000-year-old DNA. If someone wanted to eat it, the company would need to re-do the process with closer attention paid to the needs of regulators. But it’s a great story!

The Pokémon Grimer was part of Generation 1, which came out in Japan in 1996. Points to Sean for remembering that accurately.

It was actually four different fish who beat Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire, since, for health reasons, their owner swapped in a different one every twelve hours. But, yes, the notoriously fail-proof game has been beaten by the random movements of fish swimming around a tank with quadrants mapped to the controller buttons.

We also mention the Feejee Mermaid. It turns out there were many such “mermaids” made from combining the bodies of fish and monkeys. They have cultural significance as “ningyo” in Japan, but when westerners like PT Barnum got their hands on them in the nineteenth century, shenanigans ensued.  

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

The mammoth meatball (which was not, in fact, eaten by anyone):

Carrington, D. (2023b, March 28). Meatball from long-extinct mammoth created by food firm. The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/28/meatball-mammoth-created-cultivated-meat-firm?CMP=share_btn_url 

P.T. Barnum’s Feejee Mermaid (one of many from the 1800s):

Szalay, J. (2016, September 9). The Feejee Mermaid: Early Barnum Hoax. livescience.com. https://www.livescience.com/56037-feejee-mermaid.html 

The meaning behind the name Oddish: 

Fandom. (n.d.). Oddish. Codex Gamicus. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://gamicus.fandom.com/wiki/Oddish 

Mandrakes:

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1998, July 20). Mandrake | Description, Species, & Traditions. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/plant/mandrake-Mandragora-genus#ref202668 

Corpse flower, Rafflesia arnoldi, definitely the inspiration behind Vileplume 

Rafflesia arnoldi. (n.d.). Kew Royal Botanic Gardens. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://www.kew.org/plants/rafflesia-arnoldi 

Ghost pipe, a mycoheterotroph:

Ghost pipe. (n.d.). Nature Conservancy Canada. Retrieved December 10, 2024, from https://www.natureconservancy.ca/en/what-we-do/resource-centre/featured-species/plants/ghost-pipe.html

Timestamps

00:46 Introduction

01:56 Pursuing wildlife biology because Jurassic Park isn't real

3:54 What is Geek Ecology?

5:08 Pokémon Food Webs

10:27 The Fish who beat Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire

11:30 Why “grass type” and not “plant type”?

13:02 Are Pokémon their own kingdom of life?

14:00 A discussion on evolution

18:07 Angiosperms (flowering plants) and gymnosperms (non-flowering plants)

19:09 Impatiens would make good Pokémon

20:30 Plant Pokémon reproduction: seeds AND eggs??

22:10 Sean wants a Pokémon breeding simulator

12:45 Do Pokémon need to be pollinated?

25:29 What plant inspired the Oddish?

30:58 Vileplume: it’s just a corpse flower, right?

34:45 Parasitic plant tangent

29:25 Pokémon with fake Latin names

40:50 Find Geek Ecology online

42:55 Contact Us & Outro

You might think a gardening podcast would focus on guests who have a lifetime of gardening expertise and plenty of credentials. But we want to emphasize that anyone can garden, and amateurs everywhere find niches to flourish in. That’s why we invited Amanda Jewell to share her adventures in learning to grow native plants from seed.

Amanda is a vision therapist by trade. In her free time, she uses her postage-stamp urban yard in Northern Ontario to grow hundreds of native wildflowers every year. She describes for us the joy she felt the first time she discovered that her garden was supporting local insects and how the focus on bringing more wildlife to her yard drove her interest in native plants. She also explains how winter sowing has become such an effective technique for her, in spite of mishaps along the way, and how leaning in to nature’s lack of orderliness is both useful and liberating. We wrap up with conversation about finding community among gardeners and about resources and seed sources for listeners who want to try starting their own native plants. 

Amanda’s Shout-Outs:

The Ottawa Wildflower Seed Library distributes free seeds to organizations and gardeners every winter: https://wildflowerseedlibrary.ca/ 

The Butterflyway Project supports the creation of connected patches of butterfly habitat throughout neighbourhoods: https://davidsuzuki.org/take-action/act-locally/butterflyway/ 

The Miskwaadesi native garden is a new garden in North Bay, Ontario created by the North Bay Indigenous Friendship Centre: https://www.miskwaadesi.ca/ 

Timestamps

00:51 Intro

01:25 Gardening in Urban Northern Ontario

03:20 Observe Before You Grow

04:16 Becoming a Disney Princess for Hornets

08:10 A Cheap, Low-Maintenance, Wildlife-Friendly Garden

10:00 Growing Native Perennials Is Beginner Friendly!

11:23 Why Some Seeds Need Cold Stratification

13:57 What is Winter Sowing?

15:22 Organization Not Necessary

17:05 When to Open your Winter-Sowing Greenhouses

18:56 Collecting Native Seeds

21:29 Wildlife Garden With Their Poop!

22:07 Amanda’s Native-Plant Wishlist

23:19 Making a Microclimate for a Southern Plant

25:08 Making a Rain Garden or Pond

26:18 The Miskwaadesi Native Plant Garden in North Bay

28:29 Garden Centres vs. Nurseries

30:41 The Nativar Debate

36:26 Pollination and Genetic Diversity in the Garden

37:23 Understanding Your Garden Ecosystem

38:40 Add Rotting Wood to your Garden

43:40 A Warning about Growing Seeds in Mulch

47:20 Amanda’s Shout-Outs and Tips

This versus episode is a battle of the native wildflowers. Sean leads with penstemon, also known as hairy beardtongue, a charmingly fairytale-looking native perennial genus with species that grow across North America. Points in this plant’s favour: it has few pests and diseases, pollinators love it, and Sean lets us in on the secret to increased blossoms. Also: tube-shaped flowers = hummingbirds and adorably wiggling bee butts. 

Not to be outdone, Erin pushes back with common milkweed Asclepias syriaca, another native perennial that’s important for pollinators and a range of specialist insects, including monarch butterflies. Its sweet-smelling ball-shaped flower clusters seem engineered for human appeal, but this plant’s genes are wild and free. Erin explains what kind of garden space you need to grow them and addresses some common fears about the toxins in milkweed’s sap. And then both our hosts get into The Milkweed Controversy.

Tangents this week include rhizomes, informational websites with no dates on them, the ethics of merch, and the menace of black swallow-wort, a.k.a. dog strangling vine. 

Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Sean with beardtongue or Erin with milkweed? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff. 

Fact Check

We weren’t quite certain, but our memories were right: monarch butterflies are listed as endangered in Canada and, as of December 2024, threatened in the United States. However, it’s also important to know that provinces also have their own systems of classification. In Ontario, the monarch is only a species of “special concern,” which doesn’t come with the protections that “endangered” and “threatened” do.

La Grassa, J. (2024, December 13). Canadian monarch enthusiasts, experts welcome possible new protections for butterfly in U.S. CBC. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/monarch-butterflies-southwestern-ontario-1.7407440#:~:text=In%20Ontario%2C%20the%20monarch%20is,receive%20species%20or%20habitat%20protection.%22 

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Moving Penstemon from Scrophulariaceae to Plantaginaceae

Gerry. (2016, January 24). Genus Penstemon Moved from Scrophulariaceae to Plantaginaceae. USWildflowers.com Journal. https://journal.uswildflowers.com/2016/01/genus-penstemon-moved-from-scrophulariaceae-to-plantaginaceae/ 

Penstemon Basics:

Hairy Beardtongue. (2025, January 8). Ontario Native Plants. https://onplants.ca/shop/penstemon-hirsutus/ 

TWC Staff. (2023, February 22). Penstemon hirsutus (By The University of Texas at Austin). Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center. https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=PEHI 

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. (1998b, July 20). Penstemon | Native, perennial, flowering. Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/plant/Penstemon

A Beginner’s Guide to Native Penstemons

Native Penstemons: A Beginner’s Guide. (2024, December 22). The Plant Native. https://theplantnative.com/plant/penstemon/ 

Medicinal uses of Wildflowers

Medicinal uses (By Oregon State University). (2019, March 13). College of Agricultural Sciences. https://agsci.oregonstate.edu/mes/sustainable-wildflower-seed-production/medicinal-uses 

Ellen Zachos, author of the books Backyard Forager: 65 familiar plants you didn’t know you could eat, The Forager’s Pantry: Cooking with wild edibles, and How to Forage for Wild Foods Without Dying: An absolute beginner’s guide to identifying 35 wild, edible plants, and more

Zachos, E. Backyard forager. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://backyardforager.com/

The David Suzuki Foundation Butterflyway Project

The Butterflyway Project. (2025, January 8). David Suzuki Foundation. https://davidsuzuki.org/take-action/act-locally/butterflyway/

Your local Native Plant Society will have information about the milkweed that grows in your area.

Native Plant Societies. (n.d.). North American Native Plant Society. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://nanps.org/native-plant-societies/ 

The Xerces Society Milkweed Finder can help you find seeds if you want to grow your own.

Milkweed Finder. The Xerces Society for Invertebrate Protection. Retrieved January 8, 2025, from https://xerces.org/milkweed/milkweed-seed-finder

Raising monarch butterflies

Pasternak, Carol. How to Raise Monarch Butterflies: A Step-By-Step Guide for Kids (How it Works). E-book ed., Firefly Books Ltd., 2015. 

The life cycle and migration of monarch butterflies

“Life Cycle”, Monarch Joint Venture, https://monarchjointventure.org/monarch-biology/life-cycle. Accessed 20 November, 2024. 

A close study of milkweed and the species it hosts

Holdrege, Craig. “The Story of an Organism: Common Milkweed”, The Nature Institute, 2010, www.natureinstitute.org/article/craig-holdrege/the-story-of-an-organism-common-milkweed

Timestamps

00:11 Intro

01:04 What’s Growing On?

01:50 Sean’s Puppy Update

02:03 Erin’s New Book

05:00 The Plant Face-Off

05:23 Face-Off Results for Poinsettia vs. Amaryllis

06:30 Sean’s Plant: Penstemon, a.k.a. Beardtongue

06:57 The Reclassification of Penstemon

08:58 The Value of Dates on Research Materials

11:03 Penstemon Species and Ranges

12:19 Penstemon In Your Garden

14:21 Penstemon Pollinators, Featuring Bee Butts

16:38 Learning Medicinal Uses for Plants

19:30 Tending Penstemon

23:58 Erin’s Plant: Common Milkweed

25:56 What is Rhizome?

27:51 National Garden Bureau’s Year Of the Asclepias

28:55 Milkweed Misnomers

30:14 The Destruction of Common Milkweed

31:43 Toxic Sap and Nuanced Conversations

35:09 Would You Eat (cooked) Milkweed?

35:58 When Growing Milkweed Kills Monarchs

39:52 How to Source Milkweed for Your Region

41:23 Saving Monarchs—who, how, and why

46:00 The Problem of Dog-Strangling Vine

48:16 Outro

This versus episode kicks off with a discussion about creating a safe space on social media for respectful, loving communication about everything plants and gardens, then digresses into a discussion of Latin pronunciations in botanical, liturgical, and classical settings. When we make it to the Plant Face-Off, Erin leads with peace lily, or Spathiphyllum spp. She explains why some plants in the Spathiphyllum genus have Big Spadix Energy, then explores the fascinating physical mechanism that makes biting a peace lily a bad idea. She explains how to approximate the conditions of its home in the understory of tropical rainforests and how to treat problems, then digs into why she and others are so darned allergic to its pollen. Finally, Erin and Sean dissect the infamous NASA Clean Air Study that still prompts publications to insist that peace lilies can purify your air of household toxins.

In the second half of the episode, Sean confidently takes the stage to predict a win for his favourite plants, Phalaenopsis orchids, also known as moon orchids or moth orchids (for their moth-like flowers). He explains how they grow hanging in the air, attached to trees or stones, and describes the various options for propagating them. Next he covers such controversial topics as what media to grow orchids in, how to water them, and where to position them for the best kind of light. As someone who has rehabilitated many a box-store orchid, he is well equipped with advice on helping them re-bloom and thrive. Sean closes his segment with some history and surprising medical uses for Phalaenopsis.

Who won the Plant Face-Off? Was it Erin with peace lilies or Sean with Phalaenopsis orchids? You decide! Send your vote by email or on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook with the hashtag #PAWFaceOff.

Instagram: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Facebook: plantsalwayswinpodcast 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Shout-Outs: 

Southern Ontario Orchid Society: https://soos.ca/

Central Ontario Orchid Society: http://coos.ca/ 

Knotmoth Micro Crochet: https://www.instagram.com/knotmoth/ 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Citations

Phalaenopsis Culture Sheet

Phalaenopsis Culture Sheet - American Orchid Society. (n.d.). https://www.aos.org/orchid-care/care-sheets/phalaenopsis-culture-sheet 

The Phalaenopsis group on Missouri Botanical Garden’s Plant Finder

Phalaenopsis (group). (n.d.). Missouri Botanical Garden. https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?taxonid=264608&isprofile=1&basic=phalaenopsis 

An updated version of a 1956 article in the American Orchid Society Bulletin 

Phalaenopsis, the Genus - Beginner’s Handbook, XXIII. (n.d.). American Orchid Society. Retrieved January 21, 2025, from https://www.aos.org/orchid-care/orchid-care-and-culture-sheets/phalaenopsis-culture-sheet/phalaenopsis-the-genus 

Research into medical uses for commercial orchid waste  

Minh, T., Khang, D., Tuyen, P., Minh, L., Anh, L., Quan, N., Ha, P., Quan, N., Toan, N., Elzaawely, A., & Xuan, T. (2016). Phenolic compounds and antioxidant activity of phalaenopsis orchid hybrids. Antioxidants, 5(3), 31. https://doi.org/10.3390/antiox5030031 

The history of orchids

Hill, E. (2021, March 26). The history of orchids. Love Orchids. https://www.loveorchids.co.uk/blogs/home/four-things-about-the-history-of-orchids-you-might-not-know?srsltid=AfmBOooOu7XYkq-RGQmlx8YUl1JBoj50X_3xPH1wgEjo3CmOf20X1hMR 

Peace lilies’ relatives: plants in the Araceae family

Grant, B. L. (2021, August 11). Arum plant information: Learn about common varieties of arum. Gardening Know How. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/houseplants/hpgen/arum-plant-information.htm

Information about spathes and spadixes

Ellis, M. E. (2021, November 29). What is a spathe: Learn about the spathe and spadix in plants. Gardening Know How. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/info/what-is-a-spathe.htm 

Spathiphyllum overview, including pests and diseases

Spathiphyllum (Peace lily, Spathe flower, White sails) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox. (n.d.). Retrieved January 21, 2025, from https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/spathiphyllum/#poison 

Treating pests and diseases of Spathiphyllum 

Spengler, T. (2021, May 29). Diseases in spathiphyllum: Tips on treating peace lily diseases. Gardening Know How. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/houseplants/peace-lily/diseases-spathiphyllum-tips-treating-peace-lily-diseases.htm 

How calcium oxalate crystals in peace lily leaves cause reactions 

Wismer, T. (2015). Feline toxins. August’s Consultations in Feline Internal Medicine, 7, 791–798. https://doi.org/10.1016/b978-0-323-22652-3.00079-7 

Spathiphyllum as an unusually bad trigger for allergies among houseplants

egás, V. H., Duch, G. D., García, V. G., De La Losa, F. P., Fernández, M. C., Velandia, D. G., & Jané, P. G. (2019). Allergy to Spathiphyllum wallisii, an Indoor Allergen. Journal of Investigational Allergology and Clinical Immunology, 29(6), 453–454. https://doi.org/10.18176/jiaci.0419 

Debunking popular NASA Clean Air Study interpretations

Editorial Staff. (2017, February 15). Getting into the Weeds: Do Houseplants Really Improve Air Quality? American Lung Association. https://www.lung.org/blog/do-houseplants-really-improve-air-quality#:~:text=This%20NASA%20study%20showed%20that,long%20history%20of%20health%20impacts 

NASA’s own account of the Clean Air study

Plants clean air and water for indoor environments. (2007). NASA Spinoff. https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2007/ps_3.html 

A deeper dive into the study and how houseplants really benefit your home

Russel, E. M. (2020, September 7). Debunked: Despite NASA clean air study claims, houseplants don’t effectively purify air. Clean Air Gardening. https://www.cleanairgardening.com/do-houseplants-clean-air/ 

Timestamps

00:57 Intro

01:13 What’s Growing On?

01:15 Opening our Discord to the Gardening World

2:45 Booking Some Public Gigs

04:20 The Plant Face-Off

04:43 Face-Off Results for Milkweed vs. Beardtongue

05:30 Pronouncing Latin: A Context Sport

07:05 Erin’s Plant: Peace Lily

07:22The Arum Family (Araceae)

08:20 Spathes and Spadixes

09:02 Corpse Flower Amorphophallus titanum: Big Spadix Energy

11:05 Peace Lily’s Not-so-Peaceful Toxic Reaction

14:09 Caring for your Peace Lily

19:52 Peace Lily Allergies

21:55 The Infamous NASA Clean Air Study

31:55 Sean’s Plant: Phalaenopsis Orchid

33:13 Orchid Taxonomy (and What’s Taxonomy, Anyway?)

33:06 Orchid Origins

36:33 Epiphytes on Trees and Lithophytes on Rocks

37:22 Three Ways to Propagate an Orchid

40:22 What to Grow your Orchid In

42:59 How to Have a Happy Orchid

48:50 Orchid Pests, Pestilence, and Stress

50:00 History Time, Featuring Orchid Delirium

53:30 Orchids in Medical Research

55:09 Shout-Outs

55:13 Ontario Orchid Societies

55:37 Knotmoth Micro Crochet

57:17 Contact Us and Outro

Have you learned to read your garden? This week we sit down with Lauren MacLean, a teacher, author, and podcaster from Richmond, British Columbia. She’s a big advocate for how outdoor classrooms help kids learn better, but a few years ago she had a learning experience of her own when her school built a new garden classroom. In this interview she shares with us her background as an outdoor educator and explains the magic of “sit spots” for creating a relationship with our environment—something we should all do in our own gardens. Lauren explains how even though she was new to gardening when her school dug into its new project, she was helped by the nature literacy she and her students already possessed. “Reading” the plants and the species who live in relationship to them is key.

Throughout today’s conversation we celebrate the value of garden failures and what they can teach us and the children who follow our example. We extend grace to ourselves and all gardeners (and houseplant parents!) who struggle to help their plants thrive. Lauren also offers advice for teachers to keep their garden classrooms afloat when the first bloom of ambition fades, and celebrates the community connections they can forge. Finally, we wrap up by trouble-shooting problems like summer watering, wildlife interactions, and weed identification. 

If you want to learn more from Lauren about outdoor learning, check out…

Lauren’s Courses: 

Nature’s Path: a Year of Monthly Sparks—monthly outdoor-learning professional development for educators and homeschooling families

Thrive Outside: Grow Your Teaching Space—a five-week program for teachers and homeschooling parents to grow their teaching into the outdoors

Lauren’s Books: 

Me and My Sit Spot—a picture book about choosing and using a sit spot

Finding Common Ground—a story set in an outdoor classroom

Sitting with Nature: An Educator’s Guide to Sit Spots—the book that brought Lauren and Erin together as author and editor, a resource that introduces why and how to use sit spots in the classroom (with lesson plans included!) 

Lauren’s Online: 

Teach Outdoors is Lauren’s podcast about outdoor learning.

teachoutdoors.ca is her website.

Lauren’s Social Media

Instagram: @teachoutdoors.ca

Facebook: Lauren MacLean-Douglas

Bluesky: @teachoutdoors.bsky.social

Timestamps

00:34 Intro

01:12 Lauren’s Outdoor-Learning Origin Story

02:40 Sit Spots: Building a Relationship with Nature

08:34 Lauren’s Garden-Classroom Learning Curve

10:10 Developing Plant Literacy

11:30 The Value of Failure in the Garden and the Classroom

16:55 Taking the Whole Curriculum Into the Garden

20:56 How Not to Abandon Your Garden Classroom

24:05 Classroom Gardens and Community

24:30 Summer Watering

27:47 Mulch and Acidity (worry less about it)

29:40 What Does Your (School) Garden Grow?

30:30 Fruit Trees in Schools?

30:50 An Ode to the Serviceberry

34:25 Lauren’s Home Gardening Mishap

35:00 Plant Propagation

38:54 The Importance of Weeding Guides

41:27 Lauren’s Courses, Books, and Podcast

43:33 Outro

Books and Experts Referenced in this Episode

Monty Don’s Down to Earth, in which he talks about building a place to sit in every garden

Don, M. (2020). Down to earth: Gardening Wisdom. National Geographic Books.

Megan Zeni, Outdoor Educator

Zeni, M. (2025). Megan Zeni - Room to Play Consulting. MeganZeni.com. https://meganzeni.com/ 

Robin Wall Kimmerer’s The Serviceberry

Kimmerer, R. W. (2024). The ServiceBerry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World. Simon and Schuster.

Erin’s picture book Outside, You Notice

Alladin, E. (2021). Outside, you notice. Pajama Press. 

This week we cover a lot of ground on the subject of groundcovers with Kathy Jentz. Kathy is the editor and publisher of Washington Gardener, the host of the Garden DC podcast, and the author of Groundcover Revolution, a book written to give inspiration and examples for turf grass substitutes that gardeners everywhere can use to find the best plants for their region. They can also use its attractive and accessible photographs to get their spouses and their HOA on board.

We start our conversation by establishing some ground rules: what is a groundcover? Kathy says it’s any plant that covers the ground thickly enough to suppress weeds, which kicks off a conversation about turf substitutes, plant height, maintenance, and moss lawns. We reflect on the history of lawns, the aggressive nature of many groundcovers, and how to manage them through plant choice or through physical intervention. What about avoiding invasive species of groundcovers altogether? Kathy shares some favourites and some species she would never recommend in her region, Washington DC. Erin and Sean offer their own top and bottom choices for Central Ontario and discover, in spite of distance and very different growing seasons, some common ground.

For more of Kathy, you can find her in the following places:

Upcoming speaking engagements

• The 2025 Northwest Flower Garden Festival in Seattle 
• The 2025 Philadelphia Flower Show

Kathy’s Online Platforms

• Washington Gardener Plant Store:

https://shop.kathyjentz.com/

• Washington Gardener Blog:

www.washingtongardener.blogspot.com

• Washington Gardener Archives:

http://issuu.com/washingtongardener

• Washington Gardener Discussion Group:

https://groups.google.com/g/washingtongardener/

To join, send an email to - washingtongardener+subscribe@googlegroups.com

• Washington Gardener Twitter Feed:

www.twitter.com/WDCGardener

• Washington Gardener Bluesky Feed:

https://bsky.app/profile/wdcgardener.bsky.social

• Washington Gardener Instagram Account:

https://www.instagram.com/wdcgardener/

• Washington Gardener Pinterest Account:

https://www.pinterest.com/wdcgardener/boards/

• Washington Gardener TikTok Account:

https://www.tiktok.com/@wdcgardener

• Washington Gardener Facebook Page:

https://www.facebook.com/WashingtonGardenerMagazine/

• Washington Gardener Youtube: 

www.youtube.com/washingtongardenermagazine

• Washington Gardener Amazon Affiliate Store:

www.amazon.com/shop/wdcgardener

• Washington Gardener Podcast: GardenDC

https://anchor.fm/gardendc/

Kathy’s Books

Groundcover Revolution: How to use sustainable, low-maintenance, low-water groundcovers to replace your turf

The Urban Garden: 101 Ways to Grow Food and Beauty in the City

Books and Experts Referenced in this Episode:

The Magical World of Moss Gardening by Annie Martin, a.k.a. Mossin’ Annie

Comments? Feedback? Want your garden question to be featured in a future Q&A segment? Email us, reach out over social media, or get Q&A priority by supporting us on Patreon. 

Bluesky: @plantsalwayswin.com 

TikTok: @plantsalwayswinpodcast 

YouTube: @plantsalwayswinpodcast

Website: www.plantsalwayswin.com 

Credits

Website Design and Illustration by Sophia Alladin

Intro and Outro Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/soundroll/when-my-ukulele-plays

License code: GWOIMMBAS15FG6PH

Timestamps

00:45 Intro

01:10 Welcoming Kathy Jentz

1:53 What is a Groundcover, Anyway?

03:39 Moss Lawn Appreciation

06:03 Mossin' Annie, Moss Lawn Expert

08:07 Kathy’s New Book, Groundcover Revolution

09:25 Writing Gardening Books for an International Audience

11:52 Lawns, Landowners, and Historic Showing Off

14:55 Managing Aggressive and Invasive Groundcovers

20:39 A Native Lily of the Valley

24:45 Growing Conditions in Washington, DC

28:49 Growing Conditions in Central Ontario

31:50 Very Different Growing Seasons

34:50 Kathy’s Favourite Groundcovers

40:35 Erin’s Favourite Groundcovers

43:40 Sean’s Favourite Groundcovers

48:28 Gardening with Deer

50:47 Groundcovers Kathy Never Recommends

53:22 Groundcovers that Sean Never Recommends 

54:54 Managing the Mint Family

57:47 Don’t Shame Your Neighbours

1:02:30 Erin’s Least Favourite Groundcover

1:04 Where to Find Kathy

1:05:53 Contact Us and Outro