Metamodern Spirituality – Details, episodes & analysis

After the re-election of Donald Trump to the Presidency of the United States last night, I check in with Layman Pascal to get his take on the political landscape. What can we learn from what's going on? How can we be more open across differences instead of closed and blaming? In fact, how much internal energy should we expend on such matters at all? And what should we expect about the future of the public sphere that might help us better orient to what matters most?

0:00 Introduction

3:27 Surface vs. Structure

10:08 What Can We Learn from the Trump Moment?

14:11 Placing Blame

20:44 Valuing Nonrational Collective Intelligence

26:46 Failures of the Democratic Left

33:26 It Matters, and It Doesn't

39:53 What Does a Progressive Revolution Look Like?

48:47 Towards a Metamodern Politics of Spectacle

1:00:41 A Future of Astonishments

1:13:33 The Coming Carnival of the Public Sphere

1:17:52 Approaches to Media Consumption

1:22:26 Finding Equanimity anf Value in Disruption

1:25:35 Conclusion

I'm joined by Doug Scott, LCSW, to discuss his SH!PS approach to interpersonal transformation and development. Doug is a clinical social worker with a background in ministry and has worked as a mental health counselor since 2001. Here we discuss the common pattern Doug has abstracted from his counseling and pastoral experience for achieving growth and connection, uniting spiritual and mental health perspectives.

0:00 Introduction

1:26 Doug's Story

6:47 A Praxis for Development and Transformation

The SH!PS Approach

12:18 (I)nterview: Perspective-Taking

21:32 (S)olidarity: We're All in this Together

27:27 (H)ope: Cultivating Aspirational Purpose

56:55 (P)rocess: Honoring the Way Things Become

1:03:22 (S)ervice: How to Human Better

1:11:24 Conclusion

To get beyond the enduring impasse of the "science vs. religion" debate, let's give science its due—and then leave it in the dust! There's no need to affirm the historical basis of the Christian story to relate to the Christ of faith. If we can accept that the Gospels are prehistorical materials, we can get beyond the classic hangups and begin to see how "it's all made up" AND "it's all real!" are both true simultaneously. Here I frame the current debates around history and religion in light of the "pre/trans fallacy" so well described by integral theory. This framing, I think, helps position us to appreciate what a truly metamodern Christianity can look like. By accepting the historical Jesus account, we are freed to embrace the Christ of faith and tradition—not in spite of the facts, but because we have transcended them.

0:00 Introduction

2:01 Moving Beyond History

4:20 The Pre/Trans Fallacy

8:31 "Trans-" Demonstrates Capacity and Transformation

13:56 The Gospels and the History of History

21:05 Christianity and the Fallacy of Origins

24:38 Transcending the Claims History Makes on Us

39:11 Cultural Metamodernism and the Transhistorical

46:41 Owning Deconstruction without Equivocation

54:41 The Growth Edge of Christianity

56:31 Conclusion

Does the modern historical-critical lens on the Bible reject miracles on principle and thereby exclude in advance what it presupposes not to be true? Here I counter this critique by explaining how the miracles in the Gospels are problematized not by metaphysical prejudice but historical analysis. Taking the miracles in the Gospels at face value as historical events is problematic even if we work within a metaphysical frame that allows for miracles. Ultimately, it's a matter of historical reconstruction, not worldview, that forces us to rethink how much of the materials can be taken as reliable accounts of "what happened."

0:00 Does Modern Historical-Critical Scholarship Preclude Miracles on Principle?

2:23 A Metamodern Christianity Needs the Modern

3:59 Anti-Miracle Modernism: Steelmanning that Argument (Even Though It's Not Mine)

9:37 The Argument I Am Making: More Information Problematizes Naive Readings

13:09 Setting the Stage: Messianic Expectation and Prophecy Fulfilment

Assessing Miracle Accounts in Light of the Historical Context

17:07 1. Jesus' Birth

29:15 2. Jesus' Calming of the Storm

36:00 3. Jesus' Crucifixion

39:38 4. Jesus' Resurrection

41:38 5. Jesus' Ascension

44:15 Other Historical Considerations

53:50 "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord?" Misses the Point Entirely

58:10 Meta-Naturalism: Appreciating an Incomplete Scientific Paradigm

1:03:28 Metamodern Christianity Should Be Robust and Include the Modern Lens

1:06:38 Metamodern Christianity: Informed Naivete and Truth in Development

1:09:50 Conclusion

In this episode, I offer my own take on the "God Pivot" towards Christianity in the Intellectual Dark Web and adjacent communities (e.g., the liminal web, "This Corner of the Internet," and beyond). Reflecting on my recent interview with Jordan Hall, I see something glaringly absent from the broader conversation: the modern historical-critical perspective. Therefore, I ask: 1) How does the Traditional-Devotional perspective differ from the Modern Historical-Critical one with regard to the Old and New Testaments? 2) What might a metamodern Christianity look like that could successfully and syngergistically toggle between these different lenses to yield something progressive and robust?

0:00 Introduction

4:40 Hermeneutic Lenses: The Traditional-Devotional and Modern Historical-Critical Perspectives

7:46 Old Testament: Traditional-Devotional

13:13 Old Testament: Modern Historical-Critical

32:01 New Testament: Traditional-Devotional

37:53 New Testament: Modern Historical-Critical

47:58 Implications and Synthesis

Complexity scientist David Wolpert joins me to consider the idea of meaning at its most fundamental level. Historically, information theory has helped us quantify information (e.g., bits), but says nothing about the ways information might be useful, significant, relevant, or meaningful. Recently, however, Wolpert and colleagues have filled in what's missing from that account, offering a theory of "semantic" or "meaningful" information by showing how some information actually has causal power to influence the well-being and viability of systems in context. Here we explore this idea and a number of its implications for what's "meaningful" across the complexity stack, from a whirlpool to a bacterium all the way up to us.

0:00 Introduction

0:46 Meaning and Semantic Information

2:17 Background Context: Information Theory, Utility Functions, and Statistical Thermodynamics

14:03 Meaning FOR a System: What Information Helps One Stay Far from Equilibrium

21:54 Meaning: Mutual Information with Causal Power for Viability

27:57 Meaning and Meaurement up the Complexity Stack

33:42 Indirect Meaning, Chains of Significance, and Intelligence

37:20 A Semantic Information Theory of Individuality?

42:03 Relative vs. Absolute Semantic Information Metrics

49:52 The Complexification of Meaningful Information through Evolutionary Transitions

52:30 Layered Meaning through Evolution

Philosopher Zak Stein joins me to discuss the "the great post-postmodern project, the reconstruction of value itself," and get into the nuances of what his framework looks like as presented in his new co-authored book First Principles & First Values. What does it mean to say that value is both fundamental and relational? How does a metaphysics of value avoid premodern pitfalls (e.g., the myth of the given, a God's-eye view/view from nowhere, etc.)? What are the challenges posed by language when trying to track value across discontinuities in the complexity stack? Here we compare notes on our respective projects and try to clarify key points.

0:00 Introduction

1:58 Summary Overview of First Principles & First Values

7:35 The Project: A Post-Postmodern Reconstruction of Value

12:44 Is Positing Value as Fundamental a Premodern Move?

32:24 "Value": Avoiding Reification

39:11 Languaging the Reconstruction: Difficulties and Diversity

48:29 The Challenge and Importance of Modern Critique of Value

52:39 "Intimacy" or "Complexity"? Seeking Normative Terminology without Anthropomorphizing

1:03:07 Shifting the Paradigm: Translation or Equivocation?

1:06:25 Panpsychist vs. Emergentist Framings

1:10:26 Shifting Telos across Scales: E.g., Dissipative Structures

1:17:56 Value and Anti-Value

1:22:04 New God: Moving towards the Infinite Intimate

1:27:21 Building the Cathedral/Temple: Living with Sacred Purpose

Process thinker Jared Morningstar joins me to discuss the relationship of metamodernism to traditional forms of religion. How can engaging the traditional frame be done without losing hard-won gains in complexity and perspective-taking? Here Jared advocates for an open, flexible, and epistemically humble form of experimentation and participation in different religious modalities. We consider the role of 'causal opacity' in religious functionality and whether reflection is inherently harmful to generating emergent potential in religious contexts. We also explore the ways traditional faiths may be genuinely engaging with hyper-complex phenomena and how tradition-specific language can be helpful in extending faith into metamodernity. Finally, we discuss the role of plurality and singularity, the general and the particular, in what it means to engage religion from a metamodern perspective.

0:00 Introduction

1:34 Reaction vs. Reconstruction: Which Direction Is Calling?

10:50 Unseen Causes: Participatory Experimentation and Epistemic Humility

17:43 Breaking the Frame: Causation, Disenchantment, and Etic vs. Emic Perspectives

24:25 Moving In and Out of Tradition: Looking Back or Going Back?

35:24 Superstition or Super-Complexity? Parsing Tradition's Relationship with Hyperobjects

50:03 Beyond Perennialism: Religious Pluralism and Traditional Particularity

1:03:09 Living the Openness

1:10:59 Orienting Value in the Uncertainty

1:18:46 Integrating the General and the Particular: Heading Out and Coming Home

1:23:33 Conclusion

Integrative thinker Layman Pascal joins me to talk about the meaning of "God" from a metamodern perspective. How does thinking in terms of "surplus cohesion" point us to a helpful way of relating to all the meanings of the term? Why and when is a 2nd person relationship with Reality warranted? Who is this Face in the Universe summoning us to greater communion and transcendence? How do we communicate about all this across the various memetic sensemaking structures of culture (traditional, modern, postmodern metamodern)? Finally, what can folks expect about the upcoming metamodern spirituality gathering on the topic, which will be hosted at Sky Meadow in May and led by Layman?

0:00 Introduction

1:21 Layman's "Surplus Cohesion" Framework

4:48 God as Ultimate Reality in the 2nd Person

9:52 The Face of the Universe: Seeking the 2nd Person in the Complexity Stack

16:27 Some Framing: Reality as Dynamic Becoming, Not Static Being

21:36 Reflecting on the Alpha and the Omega: Problematizing the "Creator" Image

27:46 But Is This Still God? Communicating across Memetic Tribes

37:22 "Real in What Way?" across Levels of Memetic Complexity

45:05 Summarizing a Metamodern Sort of God

47:06 "God" in Quotation Marks: Moving beyond Totality

52:10 The God Encounter

1:08:12 The Divine Other

1:13:33 Praxis: Courting Visio Divina

1:16:41 Pluralistic Mysticism

1:23:10 Trinity as Dynamic Architectonic Plurality

1:27:08 Naturalism and Metaphysics

1:30:46 God is Love

1:37:20 Talking about "The G Word"

1:39:40 The Upcoming Metamodern Spirituality Lab on "God" at Sky Meadow (May 24-26)

More on the metamodern spirituality lab at www.skymeadowinstitute.org

Process theologian Jay McDaniel joins me to discuss the contributions of process thought to the Christian tradition. What points of similarity and dissimilarity are there between process thinking and traditional, modern, and postmodern lenses?

0:00 Introduction

1:06 What Does Theology Look Like from a "Process" Lens?

Relationship with Traditional Faith

5:44 A Feeling, Responding God

8:40 Not All-Powerful

14:40 A Dynamic, Living Whole

Relationship with Modern Thought

19:41 The Naturalistic Paradigm and (the) Beyond

24:30 A Theology of Organism and Complexity

29:30 "God" as Counter-Entropic Lure and Preserver of Good

39:33 A Modern Gestalt for Christianity?

49:31 Looking Forward, Not Back

54:52 The Pathos of God

Relationship with Postmodern Thought

1:04:38 Play, Beauty, Reality

Relationship with Metamodernism

1:10:33 Lineages, Legacies, and Futures

1:14:40 Conclusion