Messy with Daniel Atlin – Details, episodes & analysis

Podcast details

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Messy with Daniel Atlin

Solid Gold Podcasts #BeHeard

Business

Society & Culture

Frequency: 1 episode/16d. Total Eps: 23

Make Sense of the Mess of Leadership. Today’s leaders are facing unprecedented challenges. It’s a messy, complex world that requires a different approach and mindset to get things done. This is where you'll find conversations on how leaders in complex organizations navigate and make sense of the mess they find themselves in.

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Recent rankings

Latest chart positions across Apple Podcasts and Spotify rankings.

Apple Podcasts

🇨🇦 Canada - management
11/06/2026
#86
🇨🇦 Canada - management
10/06/2026
#56
🇨🇦 Canada - management
09/06/2026
#66
🇨🇦 Canada - management
08/06/2026
#33
🇨🇦 Canada - management
07/06/2026
#73
🇨🇦 Canada - management
03/05/2026
#77
🇨🇦 Canada - management
02/05/2026
#46
🇨🇦 Canada - management
29/04/2026
#66
🇨🇦 Canada - management
23/03/2026
#84
🇨🇦 Canada - management
22/03/2026
#56

Spotify

No recent rankings available

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RSS feed quality and score

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RSS feed quality

Good

Score global : 79%

Publication history

Monthly episode publishing history over the past years.

Year

Latest published episodes

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The doctor will see you now | Dr. Vivek Goel on Leadership and AI

Wednesday, September 10, 2025 • Duration 33:24

Join us for a conversation with Dr. Vivek Goel, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of Waterloo as he takes us on a journey through his diverse leadership experiences in healthcare, public health, and higher education. Discover how his medical background and public health expertise have shaped his unique approach to decision-making, both for individuals and communities alike.

In this episode, Dr. Goel dives into the essence of genuine leadership, keeping people at the centre, and illuminating why effective leaders are crucial for steering long-term strategic vision. He shares why he introduced an innovative long-term vision at the University of Waterloo - known as "Waterloo at 100," preparing the university for its centenary in 2057 rather than relying on a conventional five-year plan.

Dr. Goel also tackles the transformative role of artificial intelligence in higher education. He envisions a future where AI revolutionises teaching, learning, and research, with a return to personalised educational models. He makes a compelling case for the growing importance of humanities and social sciences in a world increasingly dominated by technology.

Throughout this engaging discussion, Dr. Goel emphasises the power of diverse perspectives, the necessity of personal balance, and the need for leaders to be aware of the myriad forces, both internal and external, that shape their organisations. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

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Welcome to Messy - Making Sense of Leadership

Sunday, June 8, 2025 • Duration 03:42

Ever wonder if leaders really matter in complex organizations?

I’m Daniel Atlin, an executive coach with over 30 years steering Canada’s universities, co-ops, and government sectors. In Messy, I dive into the chaotic world of purpose-driven leadership—think higher education, healthcare, and NGOs. Join me as I talk with global leaders about navigating stakeholder conflicts, geopolitical shifts, and crises, all while balancing influence over authority. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s not for the faint of heart.

This is Messy - together we'll make sense of the mess Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

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Thursday, September 18, 2025 • Duration 38:55

It's all about the students and pedagogy.

Dr. Julia Christensen Hughes makes sense of her journey in higher education leadership, her insights on organisational change, and her experiences at the University of Guelph and Yorkville University.

Julia shares her early disappointments as an undergraduate student, which fuelled her passion for improving higher education.

She discusses her focus on purpose and aligning organisational behaviour and leadership with espoused values, drawing from her MBA and PhD studies. She talks about the precarious nature of innovation in public universities which seems to want to always revert back to the status quo.

Julia shares insight from her tenure as Dean of the Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph, where she emphasises sustainability and ethical leadership. Julia highlights the importance of external endorsements and data-driven storytelling in building reputation and attracting significant donations, such as the transformational gift by Kim and Stu Lang which named the School. She also shares her approach to change management, focusing on invention, improvisation, storytelling, and adaptation.

Transitioning to her current role at Yorkville University, Julia discusses the challenges and opportunities in private higher education, particularly in serving online graduate students. She contrasts the agility of Yorkville with the systemic issues hindering public universities, such as financial deficits and resistance to change.

The interview concludes with Julia's advice for aspiring leaders in higher education and her hopes for the future of universities as learning organisations. Yorkville University · Gordon S. Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

No Risk, No Reward - Innovators Needed | Sheldon Levy

Wednesday, September 24, 2025 • Duration 46:33

Don't just shape the future - invent it!

Sheldon Levy is one of the most recognisable names in Canadian Post-Secondary having worked in senior leadership roles at the University of Toronto, York University, UOIT (now Ontario Tech) and President at Sheridan College, Ryerson University (now Toronto Metropolitan University) and the private University: University Canada West. He also served as Deputy Minister of Training Colleges and Universities in the Ontario Government and as an advisor to the Canadian Minister of International Trade.

In this podcast, Sheldon's maverick and entrepreneurial spirit shines brightly. He talks about the President as a risk taker unlike any other role at a complex institution.

Levy explains the challenges of leading universities, including resistance to change, risk aversion, and the pressure to conform to a single model of excellence. He addresses current issues in higher education such as financial constraints, the international student situation, and the need for innovation. Levy shares his success story with creating the Digital Media Zone (DMZ) at Ryerson (now TMU), emphasising the importance of trusting students and breaking institutional rules to foster innovation.

Throughout the conversation, he advocates for allowing institutions to experiment and take risks, trusting students more, and focusing on solving societal problems rather than just maintaining the status quo.

He observes that both universities and government have become extremely risk-averse because they aren't allowed to make errors, which prevents innovation.

As parting advice, Sheldon advises institutions to focus on one or two things that will make them better and to align themselves with societal needs rather than solely blaming government for challenges.

And to be bold. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

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Leading Through Healing | Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon

Monday, October 6, 2025 • Duration 34:48

Know yourself: surrender to the mess.

What does it really mean to lead with authenticity? And how does healing your own wounds shape the way you show up as a leader?

In this powerful episode of MESSY, host Daniel Atlin sits down with Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of British Columbia.

Dr. Bacon’s story and journey is anything but ordinary. He opens up about his unexpected rise from teaching psychology at Bishop’s University to leading one of the top universities in the world.

Along the way, he has faced and overcome deep personal challenges, including a traumatic childhood, years of substance use, and the difficult journey toward recovery. He shares how his healing has not only transformed his life, but also his leadership.

What makes this conversation so compelling is Dr. Bacon’s honesty. He speaks candidly about fear, shame, and the hidden “family ghosts” that shape us, and contrasts the exhausting “path of control and fear” with the liberating “path of compassion and love.” Drawing from Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian wisdom, he reminds us that the true work of leadership is not just about strategy, budgets, or outcomes, it’s about cultivating inner peace and leading from a place of respect, compassion, and authenticity.

His message is clear: “The first responsibility of a leader is to heal themselves.”

This episode is for anyone navigating leadership, change, or personal growth. If you’ve ever wondered how to balance ambition with wellbeing, or how to show up more authentically in your own life, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Link to Benoit-Antoine Bacon at UBC · Link to DJA Sensemaking and a text of the full podcast · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

Tap into an outsider mindset | Tim McTiernan

Monday, September 29, 2025 • Duration 47:24

Your identity is your superpower.

Tim McTiernan is Irish-Canadian and has extensive experience in social purpose organisations from governments (Ontario, Yukon, Ireland) and post-secondary institutions (University of Toronto, Canadore College, Ontario Tech).

In this Messy with Daniel Atlin podcast, I speak with Tim as he shares his life journey from growing up in Ireland with a Catholic father and Protestant mother to his career across various leadership roles in Canada. Tim reflects on being an "outsider" in various contexts and how this shaped his approach to leadership.

Tim provides insights into mastering stakeholder engagement and multi-party negotiations. He emphasises the importance of listening and collaboration, particularly when addressing complex issues with First Nations and other stakeholders.

He also emphasises the importance of embracing roles fully even when in acting positions, learning by observing before acting, and finding ways to collaborate across institutional boundaries despite policy constraints. His experiences serve as invaluable lessons for those looking to thrive in challenging environments.

Tim advises leaders to quickly understand current operational constraints, identify areas of flexibility, and look for creative solutions. He emphasises the need to "find the carriers of a vision and put them on pedestals where they can enable, support, and mentor people who can execute the visions."
He acknowledges that transitions won't be easy and may be "hurtful to personnel and budgetarily challenging, but the status quo can't stand."

He uses a story from his lifeguard days about the importance of looking for patterns and distortions in water - a metaphor for what leaders and their teams face in uncertain times. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

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Lead with purpose, not position | Dr Diana Beech

Wednesday, October 15, 2025 • Duration 33:34

Navigating the mess to find opportunities.

In a messy world, leadership doesn’t come with a roadmap — it comes with questions, courage, and relentless purpose.

In this rich and reflective conversation, Dr. Diana Beech, inaugural Director of the Finsbury Institute at City St George’s, University of London, explores her unconventional career path across academia, government, and policy and what it teaches about leading in complex, purpose-driven organisations.
Her story is one of adaptability, curiosity, and moral purpose, offering a grounded view of what leadership really looks like in the “mess” of public life and higher education.

Our conversation touches on:
• Her winding journey from academia to policy and back, taking a combination of serendipity, risk-taking, drive and hard work
• The challenge of building something new, the Finsbury Institute, from the ground up
• Why universities are struggling not just financially, but in public legitimacy
• Lessons from failure, resilience, and self-belief and recognizing there is no shame in failing and the need to share our failure stories too.
• Her guiding leadership principle: “Lead with purpose, not position”

This conversation is for anyone trying to lead in messy systems — especially in higher education, government, or public service.

She also shares her appreciation of an opportunity to talk about the mess of leadership and making sense of complex institutions. The Finsbury Institute at City St. Georges, University of London · Dr. Diana Beech on LinkedIn · Link to the HEPI report: Unboxing Higher Education · Website ·

Structured Chaos in a Messy System | John Yip

Wednesday, January 28, 2026 • Duration 56:22

A little playbook, a little Picasso.

Healthcare is often treated as a hospital story, until you need care at home.

In this episode of Messy, I am joined by John Yip, President & CEO of SE Health, to talk about leading at the intersection of health systems, digital transformation, workforce innovation, and social purpose.

John shares how his early work in the digital economy still echoes today, why home and community care is both essential and misunderstood, and what it takes to build alignment across a complex, distributed organisation operating in Canada’s fragmented provincial landscape. The conversation goes deep on COVID-era leadership: uncertainty, moral pressure, scarcity, and the real-world improvisation required when there is no playbook.

We also explore what “digital transformation” should mean now and how to ensure technology serves care (not the other way around), why safe experimentation matters, and the potential of healthcare data to improve aging and wellbeing. John offers a powerful metaphor from his personal endurance project: “running every street” as a practice of curiosity, resilience, and rewiring your perspective.

Key themes:
• Sensemaking across long arcs of change
• Healthcare as a complex, fragmented ecosystem
• Leadership in distributed, mission-driven systems
• Frontline intimacy and relational care
• Crisis leadership requires improvisation
• Resilience through exploration and “structured chaos”

If leadership sometimes feels like chopping wood, this episode is a reminder: the grind is part of the work and purpose is what helps you stay even-keeled through the mess.

If you like this episode, write a review and share. Leading through the mess is easier with friends and colleagues. SE Health Website · Running magazine Canada article about John running every street · Website ·

Universities at the Boundary | Meric Gertler

Thursday, January 15, 2026 • Duration 58:40

Sensemaking and Placemaking.

In June 2025, Meric Gertler completed a 12-year term as President of the University of Toronto.

I had the privilege and good fortune to first meet and work with Meric Gertler in 2007 when he was then the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science at the University of Toronto. What stood out most was his curious, thoughtful, and deeply empathetic approach to leadership.

Now, 18 years later, I thoroughly enjoyed our "Messy" conversation. A great deal of it explores how sensemaking is a crucial but often unrecognised function of university presidents, involving engaging with communities in all its definitions, interpreting signals, global trends and events to help their institutions understand their role in addressing societal challenges.

We cover lots more ground in our conversation:
• Why sensemaking is a non-delegable responsibility of senior leaders
• How universities build (or lose) legitimacy and public trust
• What higher education truly owes society
• Universities as engines of access, inclusion, and opportunity
• The challenge of fostering real debate & “disagree welling”
• Leading through the pandemic
• Navigating geopolitical disruption and social media fragmentation
• How U of T became a global leader in sustainability
• Lessons about mobilising change in complex systems
• Practical leadership lessons on delegation, listening, and sustaining yourself in demanding roles

This episode is a powerful reflection on leadership at the boundary: between institutions and society, certainty and ambiguity, responsibility and possibility.

If you’re navigating complexity, questioning institutional purpose, or trying to lead with integrity in uncertain times, this conversation will stay with you.

If you like it, please subscribe and share it with a colleague or friend! University of Toronto · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn

Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau

Thursday, January 8, 2026 • Duration 47:56

Lasting impact happens inside people and adaptation is the critical skill.

“That trusted network of peers is what keeps leaders standing when the work feels overwhelming.”

In this episode of Messy with Daniel Atlin, I have a conversation with Heather Anderson (CEO) and David Kamau (Chief Program Officer) from Global Health Corps to explore what leadership really looks like when the stakes are high, the data is incomplete, and the path forward isn’t clear.

GHC was built on a core belief that systems don’t have agency, people do. It is focused on building capacity in health systems through fostering leadership competencies and skills in early and mid-career leaders in Africa and the U.S.

David and Heather they unpack how GHC built a “movement” of emerging health leaders across Africa and the U.S. and they do that through tapping into lived and shared experiences, building coaching muscles and a peer community, and harnessing the power of public narrative. They talk candidly about adaptability in crisis, navigating equity and power and preventing burnout in under-resourced systems.

Key themes of this conversation are:
- Leadership is a practice, not a position
- Adaptability is the signature leadership trait
- Networks prevent burnout and isolation accelerates It
- Leadership development is a long game where impact doesn’t always show up immediately or cleanly
- Careers are non-linear and purpose is the best anchor
- Collective leadership is greater than singular heroic leadership

We also talk about the relevance of Marshall Ganz’s work on public narrative and its importance to fostering movements and change.
The work David and Heather do, and the impact of Global Health Corps is impressive.

If you’ve ever wondered how leaders in a global non-profit keep going in the mess, this conversation is your blueprint.

And if you want to support an amazing organisation follow and support GHC. Global Health Corps website and how to support them · Information about Marshal Ganz and his work on Public Narrative · ·

Messy with Daniel Atlin – Details, episodes & analysis

Podcast details

Recent rankings

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Shared links between episodes and podcasts

RSS feed quality and score

Publication history

Latest published episodes

Related Shows Based on Content Similarities

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Related Shows Based on Content Similarities

Messy with Daniel Atlin – Details, episodes & analysis

Podcast details

Recent rankings

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Shared links between episodes and podcasts

Other30

RSS feed quality and score

Publication history

Latest published episodes

Similar podcasts and content

Related Shows Based on Content Similarities

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Related Shows Based on Content Similarities

Other30

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