Lessons I Learned in Law – Details, episodes & analysis

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.

This week, Scott is joined by Carolyn Herzog, Chief Legal Officer and Board Secretary at Elastic, the Dutch-headquartered, NYSE-listed global search and AI company. With a career spanning senior legal roles at Symantec, Arm, and now Elastic, Carolyn has led through major transformations in cybersecurity, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence.

In this episode, Carolyn shares three lessons that have shaped her approach to leadership and modern legal practice. Her first, Perception is Reality, explores the importance of feedback and empathy—how understanding others’ viewpoints, not proving you’re right, is the key to influence. Her second lesson, Thriving in the Grey Zone, challenges the traditional black-and-white view of legal advice, focusing instead on partnership, pragmatism, and helping the business navigate complexity. And her third lesson, Make It Actionable, calls on in-house lawyers to move beyond advice into operational execution—turning words into outcomes.

Carolyn also discusses Elastic’s fully distributed work model, the rise of legal operations, and the responsible use of AI. She offers an optimistic take on how technology will reshape, not replace, the legal profession—urging lawyers to stay curious and proactive to future-proof their careers.

Guest Recommendations

🎧 Respect by Aretha Franklin – Her ultimate walk-on song and tribute to the Queen of Soul.
📚 Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell – Exploring how small shifts create transformative change.

 This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai

 to learn more.

About Heriot Brown:
Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.

🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.

This week, Scott is joined by Emily Barker, Global General Counsel and Executive Committee member at Arcadis, the Dutch-headquartered, Euronext-listed design, engineering, and sustainability consultancy employing more than 32,000 people worldwide.

Emily reflects on stepping into her first executive leadership role, moving beyond legal advice to help shape global business strategy. She shares how courage and optimism, two qualities not traditionally associated with lawyers, can transform teams and drive real-world change. Her first lesson explores the power of a forward-looking mindset in tackling challenges like climate transition and sustainability.

Emily’s second lesson, global vision, local wisdom, highlights the importance of understanding local culture and nuance in a global business. As an Australian lawyer fluent in Dutch and embedded in the Netherlands, she’s a rare hybrid leader who bridges global strategy with local insight.

Her final lesson focuses on human-centred leadership, why empathy, collaboration, and connection now matter more than technical precision. From managing a 130-person legal team to navigating cultural complexity, Emily’s story is a masterclass in modern in-house leadership.

Guest Recommendation

🎧 Iggy Pop Confidential – A BBC Radio 6 show blending indie classics, eclectic sounds, and the raw voice of a rock legend.

 This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai

 to learn more.

About Heriot Brown:
Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.

🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Tara Haig, General Counsel at Multiverse, joins Scott to reflect on a legal career driven by curiosity, courage, and instinct. From saying yes to opening a New York office two years post-qualification to leading legal, privacy, and governance for one of the UK’s most prominent edtech scale-ups, Tara’s story is all about leaning into discomfort, and figuring it out along the way. 

Now part of the exec team at Multiverse, a $1.7B AI-powered apprenticeship platform, Tara shares her take on three big lessons: embracing stretch opportunities (even when terrifying), understanding the commercial engine behind your business, and showing up with authenticity. Whether it’s tackling GDPR in lockdown, raising a SPAC, or managing legal complexity across Series A to D growth, she’s built a legal career that’s anything but linear. 

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating scale-up chaos, growing their team, or trying to stay grounded while building something big. Tara also shares candid reflections on working from Kenya, raising twins, and why perspective, and permission to say no, is as important as saying yes. 

Guest Recommendations:
• Book: Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
• Podcast: Pivot with Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
• Podcast: The Rest is Politics 

About Heriot Brown: 
At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. 

🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, or share it with a lawyer navigating the scale-up world. 

In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown speaks to Tonia Lovell.

Tonia spent 21 years working at Unilever, including as their Chief Legal Officer. She now has a portfolio career in non-executive roles and as an Executive Coach to lawyers and company secretaries.

Tonia shares the three lessons she has learned in law including:

• You do not have to be perfect. Being part of a team is often about helping to solve problems by seeking answers, rather than knowing the answer straight away.
• If you know what career role you want, speak up!
• Take some time to know what your personal values are, and always make sure your employer aligns with those values.

You can find out more about Tonia’s coaching at tlcuk.coach

Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment.

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In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown speaks to Randal Barker.

Randal is Group General Counsel of Lightsource bp, a global leader in the development and management of solar energy projects.

Randal shares the three lessons he has learned in law including:

• You should focus on what you want to achieve in your career and how that fits into your life. Law can offer a variety of roles to suit your lifestyle and work for you!
• Taking ownership of issues as an in-house counsel
• Often as a General Counsel, you have to take role as Statesman, enforcing the Company’s values and ethics

Randal reflects on his education and upbringing, including at an outward bound school in Canada!

Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment.

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In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown speaks to Rohan Paramesh.  

Rohan is general counsel for Habito the UK’s leading mortgage company.

Rohan shares the three lessons he has learned in law including:

• How having the confidence to let your true personality shine through at work can be a huge boost to your career.
• Always be open minded and don’t be afraid to take risks.
• Always be an entrepreneur in everything you do. Think of yourself as a business builder first and a lawyer second.

Rohan also talks about becoming a dad, why he thinks he would do a great job as Arsenal Manger and how he came to sing on MTV!

Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment.

Follow Heriot Brown:

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In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Scott Brown speaks to Sara Scott.

Sara is Senior Counsel, Regulatory Counselling and Litigation at British American Tobacco.

Sara shares the three lessons he has learned in law including:

• How to build a team and invest in people that can support you
• How you shouldn’t tolerate bad behaviour, and how best to challenge behaviour you’re not comfortable with
• You won’t know it all, and that is OK!

Sara also talks about her role in the Military Wives Choirs charity, and recognises the inspirational people in her life that have helped her in the course of her career.

Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment.

Follow Heriot Brown:  

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Welcome to Lessons I Learned in Law.

Each week I, Scott Brown, sit down with someone from the legal profession to explore their professional successes as well as the challenges they've faced in their legal career. Hopefully the lessons they've learned in law can help you in your career. 

Shelley McKinley, Chief Legal Officer at GitHub and Vice President at Microsoft, joins Scott to share career-defining lessons from two decades at the sharp edge of tech, innovation, and regulation. 

Now leading GitHub’s global legal, policy, and trust teams, Shelley offers a behind-the-scenes look at the early days of GitHub Copilot, launched before ChatGPT put generative AI on the map, and shares what it really means to advise on emerging technology when the law hasn’t caught up yet. She talks candidly about navigating ambiguity, making smart bets in fast-moving industries, and how the best legal advice can’t be given in a vacuum. 

Shelley’s lessons cover how to lead in-house teams with the right mix of legal and non-legal expertise, how to focus on high-impact work in a sea of meetings, and why building strong internal networks is a non-negotiable skill for modern legal leaders. Her reflections are sharp, grounded, and refreshingly honest, touching on everything from grunge music to paralegal strategy, Microsoft’s legal transformation, and the FUD-to-FOMO evolution of AI. 

Guest Recommendations:
• Podcast: Acquired — Particularly the Spotify and Microsoft episodes
• Book: The Meditating Mother by Laura Kopchick — A quirky short story collection written by Shelley’s college friend (https://www.amazon.com/Meditating-Mother-Laura-Kopchick/dp/1962148157) 

About Heriot Brown: 
At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities. 

🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, or share it with someone curious about leading in tech, AI, or global legal teams. 

Sam Plant, Chief Legal Officer at Müller UK & Ireland, brings a refreshing mix of humility, insight and honesty to this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law. From risk-taking in legal advice to speaking up about gender inequality, Sam shares three candid lessons that challenge the status quo.

Leading the legal and compliance function across one of the UK’s best-known consumer brands—yoghurts, milk, desserts, and a vast B2B logistics network—Sam reflects on a career shaped as much by mistakes as by milestones. He explains why embracing the right kind of mistake can sharpen commercial judgement, and why lawyers who never get it wrong may be playing it too safe.

Sam also offers a counterpoint to the classic “say yes to everything” career advice. In his view, learning to say no—to roles, responsibilities, and scope creep—is essential for long-term success and team wellbeing.

In a standout third lesson, Sam shares how he became more aware of his own privilege and began advocating for gender equity in law and beyond. His honest reflections on male allyship, everyday bias, and building trust with women in the profession are as powerful as they are practical.

Guest Recommendations:
• Book: Doppelganger by Naomi Klein
• Podcast: Origin Story by Ian Dunt and Dorian Lynskey

About Heriot Brown:
At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities.

🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, or share it with a colleague—especially those who want to lead with empathy, courage, and clarity.