In this podcast, coming to you from the end of the world, Elizabeth Macpherson and Cristy Clark share developments and insights about how law is being used to support outcomes for the environment and those who depend on it - i.e. everyone.
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Collaboration in the climate crisis - Episode 1 (with Julia Dehm)
Season 1 · Episode 1
Friday, April 25, 2025 • Duration 01:08:28
In this episode of Law at the End of the World we are joined by natural resources and climate law scholar Julia Dehm. Julia discusses the challenges of balancing theoretical research work with real-world research impact, the importance of mainstreaming climate change in legal education, and the juggle of balancing a career with family responsibilities.
In addition to reflecting on Julia's talk, Cristy and Liz discuss recent developments in environmental law, and reflect on their future research directions and the need for collaboration within the legal community.
Show notes
See below for a list of resources relevant to the themes or issues discussed during this episode
More information on our guest, Associate Proffessor Julia Dehm, can be found here
Petra Stock, ‘Coalition scores just 1/100 points for environment and climate policies from conservation organisation’ (The Guardian, 14 April 2025) - Read article
Science was never neutral - Episode 2 (with Ritodhi Chakraborty)
Season 1 · Episode 2
Sunday, April 27, 2025 • Duration 01:27:01
Summary
In this episode of Law at the End of the World, Elizabeth Macpherson speaks with our guest Dr Ritodhi Chakraborty about his journey into academia. He shares highlights the importance of the humanities and social sciences in contributing to the world's most pressing issues and that environmental sciences could benefit from expanding into alternative knowledges to ensure their work is grounded in diverse knowledge systems. He introduces the concept of maladaptation, critiques traditional environmentalism, and stresses the significance of Indigenous knowledge in climate solutions.
The conversation also explores the ethics of research, the need for interdisciplinary approaches, and the importance of community engagement in achieving justice.
The episode concludes with Cristy and Liz's reflections and updates on the recent developments in environmental law.
The United Nations General Assembly includes the human right to a clean, healthy and sustainable environment: the ocean and human rights
Mehta, L. The Challenges of Decolonising Sustainability and the Environment in Development Studies (DS). Eur J Dev Res (2025). Read the article
The 2025 LSAANZ Conference: Rights, Relationality, Resilience, Reciprocity, University of Canterbury - call for abstracts -
Prefiguring a better, post-growth world - Episode 4 (with Birsha Ohdedar)
Season 1 · Episode 4
Monday, May 19, 2025 • Duration 01:27:50
In this episode of Law at the End of the World, we’re joined by Dr Birsha Ohdedar - legal scholar, climate justice advocate, and thinker on post-growth futures. Birsha shares his academic journey, insights on navigating the tensions between scholarly work and real-world impact, and reflections on law's role in climate and environmental justice. He speaks on the promise of post-growth frameworks, prefigurative legalities, and the importance of slowing down to reimagine what law can do.
Reflecting on Birsha’s interview, hosts Cristy Clark and Elizabeth Macpherson explore the challenges of parenting within academia and make a case for slow scholarship in a high-pressure sector. The episode closes with updates on current developments in environmental law and future directions for research.
Show notes:
See below for a list of resources relevant to the themes or issues discussed during this episode
Thriving as an academic (and pracademic) - Episode 3
Season 1 · Episode 3
Friday, May 9, 2025 • Duration 01:03:48
In this episode, Elizabeth and Cristy discuss the concept of 'pracademia' - the intersection of academic and practical legal work. Thie conversation begins with reflections from Liz's recent keynote address for early career researchers (ECRs) in Canterbury, titled How to survive (and thrive) as an academic. Topics include insights on surviving (and thriving) in academia, emphasising the role of 'shameless self-promotion' and embracing rejection as a ncessary part of acadmic life and of growth.
Cristy adds her perspective with a candid confession of her obsession with productivity hacks featuring shoutouts to On the Reg and TextExpander
In the second half of the episode, Liz and Cristy dive into recent developments in environmental law. Liz covers a slew of legislative changes in Aotearoa New Zealand, including a rushed amendment to the Wildlife Act - described as protecting vulnerable roads and mines from skinks, geckos and frogs, as well as the Equal Pay Amendment Act. She also shares the exciting appointment of Gerard Albert (Whanganui Iwi) to the Waitangi Tribunal.
Cristy discusses the Australian election results and highlights several climate cases progressing through international bodies such as the European Court of Human Rights and the African Court of Human and Peoples’ Rights.
Water connects us all - Episode 5 (with Aurora Kagawa-Viviani)
Season 1 · Episode 5
Saturday, May 31, 2025 • Duration 01:28:40
In this episode of Law at the End of the World, we’re joined by interdisciplinary water researcher Dr Aurora Kagawa-Viviani, who shares her journey navigating the complex, and often joyful, terrain of collaborative, community-based research. Aurora speaks to the importance of building relationships across university and community settings, integrating Indigenous knowledge systems, and maintaining balance between academic life and personal wellbeing.
Cristy and Liz discuss their own experiences in interdisciplinary legal research, sharing lessons learned from working across fields. The episode wraps up with hot takes on recent developments in environmental law.
Cristy and Liz explore the lessons from the wideranging water governance case studies in Cristy's groundbreaking book, including England and Wales, Flint and Detroit, Chile, South Africa, Manila and the Whanganui River in Aotearoa New Zealand across water commodification, financialisation and relationality. Their conversation emphasises the importance of community-led, grassroots water governance and Cristy makes the case for a fundamental reconceptualisation of human-water relationships to achieve more equitable water governance. The episode concludes with updates on latest developments in environmental law.
Green transitional justice, reparations, and ecocide - Episode 7 (with Rachel Killean)
Season 1 · Episode 7
Thursday, June 19, 2025 • Duration 01:36:19
In this episode of Law at the End of the World, hosts Cristy & Liz discuss updates in environmental law, focusing on the concept of ecocide and its implications for justice.
Dr Rachel Killeanjoins to discuss how her experiences in Cambodia shaped her focus on transitional and environmental justice. She introduces her upcoming book, Green Transitional Justice and reflects on the value of reparative approaches and curiosity in research.
Oceans of knowledge - Episode 6 (with Karen Fisher, Emily Parke, Dan Hikuroa and Linda Faulkner)
Season 1 · Episode 6
Saturday, June 14, 2025 • Duration 01:55:36
In this special episode of Law at the End of the World, we feature a discussion with leading ocean governance experts Dr Karen Fisher, Dr Emily Parke, Associate Professor Dan Hikuroa & Linda Faulkner. Recorded live during an event aligned with the UN Oceans Conference in Nice, they dive into the future of ocean law and governance.
Guests unpack the complexities of marine regulation, urging inclusive approaches that centre Indigenous knowledge, local perspectives, and western science. Liz and Cristy reflect through the lens of legal pluralism and share their hot takes on recent legal developments.
This one’s a little longer - feel free to dip into the parts that resonate (pun intended)
Rights of the child, future generations, and care- Episode 10 (with Aoife Nolan)
Season 2 · Episode 10
Monday, September 8, 2025 • Duration 01:39:10
In this episode, Cristy Clark and Elizabeth Macpherson explore the intersections of climate change with the rights of children, future generations, and to care, as well as the question of how to have an impact as an academic. Our guest Aoife Nolan shares her journey into legal academia and beyond, discussing her commitment to children's rights and socio-economic justice. She explores the interconnections between austerity politics and rights, and her approach to balancing academic work with policy engagement. Aoife offers valuable advice for early career researchers on building networks and navigating their careers while maintaining balance and self-compassion, and also emphasises the need for later career academics to provide opportunities.
Liz and Cristy finish up by discussing new developments in environmental law, including recent case law related to climate change, Indigenous rights, and environmental law. The conversation also explores the recent Inter-American Court advisory opinion on the right to care, and consumer law's role in combating greenwashing.
River personhood - Episode 9 (with Erin O'Donnell)
Season 2 · Episode 9
Saturday, August 23, 2025 • Duration 02:10:43
In this episode of 'Law at the End of the World', hosts Elizabeth Macpherson and Cristy Clark interview Dr Erin O'Donnell, water law expert and author of 'Legal Rights for Rivers', about her journey from desert ecology to pioneering research on river personhood and Indigenous water justice.
Erin discusses her groundbreaking work on legal rights for rivers, her role on the Birrarung Council, the voice of Melbourne's Yarra River, and her current research exploring how treaty processes could address 'aqua nullius' and increase traditional owner power in water governance. The conversation covers research methodologies that prioritise Indigenous partnership and reciprocity, the temporality of relational governance, and practical approaches to recognising rivers as living entities. The episode concludes with updates on significant environmental law developments including the ICJ climate advisory opinion and recent legislative changes across jurisdictions.
Round table exploration of the issues surrounding climate change and class discrimination law
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